I think I know why it was never used. The advent of the turbine engine which was being tested at this time. Would make the ROR obsolete before it could be installed.
As someone who flies helis It VERY likely failed because the rotor blades are not meant to have torque originating from the tips…. Also additional vibrations will completely fuck up your blades
@J D I remember that episode, too. I don't remember the stamp causing any problems. What if a bird shit on a rotor blade? That weighs more than a stamp. There would be helicopters crashing everywhere!
I think it likely failed because it was a lot easier to just get more hp out of the motor in the next revision than to install an additional power system.
I trained in Bell 47s in Janesville, Wisconsin, during the summer of 1989. High density altitude every day. Our fuel was limited to half tanks just so we could hover. The ROR system would have made sense. Omniflight Helicopters was a great school and full Bell maintenance facility. Got my Commercial add on license in three weeks.
I suspect the reason it was never adopted has something to do with the extremely corrosive qualities of 90% hydrogen peroxide. Not to mention the danger of having a tank such a high-quality oxidizer on board in a crash situation.
Lets not forget on-site storage of 90% peroxide at any military base facility in a conflict area would be a serious challenge too. Storage of this material in such a way that it just maintains it's 90% concentration is a serious challenge. The fact that it's a general hazard in ideal conditions for all concerned doesn't help either.
Or the fact your enemy has a nice big target (the tank) to rain hellfire down into the cockpit. Not super practical but that’s how innovation works.. a shitload of bad ideas til you strike genius.
I had to agree to a NDA but I'm free to tell now. My cousin invented the the design of a transmissionless helo. It used a jet engine and 50% thrust was sent up through the blade and out the tip of the blades and 50% thrust out the back with no need for tail roter because there was no auto rotation. He invented the designs for that prop
We used to have real American heros that wanted the US to be the best in the world. Duty and Honor were ideals to strive for, not this demoralizing mediocrity and idiocracy we are currently suffering from .
I wonder if they didn't like what happened when a bullet went through the spinning dome full of highly volatile hydrogen peroxide on top of a flying helicopter.
I mean to be able to hit that thing above means you have to essentially hit the chopper already which makes no difference. Plus it's well protected from ground fire as it is above the chopper and you can always add self sealing tanks instead.
Hydrogen Peroxide is NOT highly volatile. It is a lot like water, only heavier and has a boiling point 90 degrees greater than water at 302F. It doesn’t burn or ignite in the presence of an ignition source. It is an oxidizer and at the 90% concentrations they mentioned, reacts with organic material(humans) pretty severely and can cause severe injury. Which was probably why they chose not to adopt the system. It’s use as a fuel involves a catalyst, in this case a platinum or silver mesh screen in the rocket chamber at the rotor tip. When the fuel flows into the chamber the catalytic reaction causes the atoms to separate into h2o(water) and O2(oxygen) It also releases a tremendous amount of heat(like an auto catalytic converter) which flashes the water to steam. The expansion to Steam provides the clean thrust without fire/flame… for other examples of this power source, search Bell rocket belt, Bell rocket pack, Bell Jet Pack, ect…
The Army didn't want to have to move big tanks of that stuff to their operating bases, add all the associated infrastructure, suffer the inevitable accidents, for seven minutes of double-power flight time.
Don't forget as I expounded in my post above. The Turbine engine for helicopters was already coming down the road. The French were experimenting with it and the Bell Huey prototype flew in 1956.
90% hydrogen peroxide is hazardous stuff to work with and the military probably realized guys would end up getting injured. Around the same time they also started using turbine power in place of the heavy inefficient piston engines so that resolved most of the power issues.
There's a reason (a very good reason) almost all navies stopped using HTP torpedoes decades ago. They are scarily unstable weapons. If the HTP started to decompose in the fuel tank of the torpedo you would have less than 30 seconds to jettison the weapon before it explodes
Bro.... SERIOUSLY. All the issues we had to overcome.... and they had a solution in the 50's?!?!?!?!?! I've pumped fuel to an off board bladder to get the bird up, then pumped the fuel back in.... holding my damn breath, lol.
Thank you all for your service. I went to basic in 90 and due to a preexisting knee injury that reappeared 4 weeks into bt and got a “Thank you for trying, keep the ugly glasses and here’s a plane ticket home” speech. My oldest son is 10 years in the Army now. I live 1/4 mile from Ft Bragg and I’m damn proud of all who serve(d). Much love 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
@@SebastienChedalBornu true. But do we know that it wouldn't have? Or a variation/advancement.... or even sticking with it in the. Beginning and adapting technology with the growth of helicopter tech. It just seems like it worked, and they never pushed forward.
@@ryateo1 there was other prototypes of rocket on rotors especially for VTOL airplanes but they abandonnés because of serious vibrations. The problem when you apply too much force on the tip plus the wind turbulences etc. I think this proto worked because it was an additional of what 30% max may be less. Rotors have to bend for the sake of the flight. But if you put all the force on the tip then you pull on the rotor rlmaking it too stiff. So everything goes into the copter
Interesting project, I thought this video might be about Hiller's Hornet ramjet helicopter. Worked by basically the same principals, just using a pulse jet engine on each rotor tip.
Very cool. Amazing what we come up with as humans we need to. Now we need to solve global warming, water shortages, making sure people have enough food and water and education and safety.
It may have been another money grab project. But still it should have been used. Even now it could come in handy for rescue use or around other terrain which needs the extra boost.
A few years later this jet rotor concept would emerge as prat of an "Everyman's helicopter". the jets were streams of gas which came from a gas generator and was diffused by tubing out to the end of the rotors. One of the nicer things about it was the decreased need for the tail prop to keep straight flight possible, as the torque applied to the axis of flight was much smaller- another was it made for an all weather helicopter because the heated gases kept the rotor blades warm enough to keep ice off. But back then we were thinking flying automobiles for the masses were "right around the corner". I don't know how we got that idea , seeing as how it was a big yellow bus bearing down on us!
the entire airframe is basically an aluminum catalyst, with 300lbs of corrosive fuel on top, needing to be topped off by the average pump jockey in the field. reason where certainly known, why they didn't go forward with that Buck Rogers stuff..
If a stray bullet hits a fuel tank full of rocket fuel, you're gonna get a big boom. And hardening the tank to withstand small arms fire is going to make it a lot heavier.
I was assigned to an Air Rescue detachment who flew multiple variants of the Huey H-1 . . UH-1F & HH-1H. The unit Det 7, 37th Aerospace Rescue & Recovery . . . serviced the SAC mission at Minot AFB, North Dakota. 😎🇺🇸
Ever build models of helicopters? I did. Lots of them! My dad taught helicopter flight school at Ft Rucker, Alabama. I wasn’t satisfied with just building models. I had to modify them. I wanted working rotors. Made it so and wanted more! More Power! Putting in a faster motor always resulted in the rotors coming apart! IMHO, stresses of increased centrifugal forces caused the developers similar problems.
About 15 years ago at a RMI reunion in Rockaway; the ROR subject came up. One of the engineers who was on the program said that one of the main issues that canceled ROR was the tests showed a tattletale Circular flame patterns during night testing. The military was not very receptive to this. Even if hydrogen Peroxide used as a mono propellant; i.e steam, the reaction did produced a visible flame. Also; my opinion, fielding this propellant would be a nightmare in terms of logistics, plus the hazards; it is hypergolic to organic materials. As power plant/gas turbines and helicopter designs improved; ROR and the Hiller ramjet program faded away. As well JATO for DoD aircrafts too.
I had an uncle that was pretty old time, and he hunted with black powder as a matter of habit, as it was cheaper. Anyway, he got distracted one time and powdered his old rifle twice. Needless to say, it didn't end well for him. That happened long before I was born, (I'm 70) but he still had the scars, and hadn't grown back the finger he lost. Filling a spinning rotor blade with a known unstable fuel sounds like a planned meeting with St. Peter. (Just as a rule of thumb, I don't mess with things marked "unstable" very often, and the one time I did, I divorced her 3 years later. 🙄 )
In the 1950's Fairey Aviation experimented with a number of rotorcraft which used tip jets instead of driving the rotor from an engine. These being: 1. Jet Gyrodyne (1954), 2. Ultra Light Helicopter (1955) and 3. the legendary Rotodyne (1957). As the rotors were driven from their tips, no torque reaction was produced, which did away with the need for a tail rotor.
Another interesting video! Strange how the ror never caught on. I'm sure there was a reason. Possibly due to temp changes and freezing up or possibly even fire or explosion of the peroxide in the event it comes into contact with a catalyst inadvertently during refueling, maintenance or transfer.
When we fly helicopters we try and land them much like a fixed wing aircraft on a runway. This approach is the most efficient approach. Now if a helicopter is operating in high altitude, carrying a large cargo and forced to do a vertical landing. This would be very taxing for the helicopter, particularly when it's using a piston engine.
Go check out the Hiller helicopter with the turbines on each end of the rotor blade. No other engine required! Had a model of it back in the early '50s and I got to see it fly as Hiller was about two miles from our house.
I'm still hoping to see a real life version of Airwolf. I know it was a work of fiction, but it would be fantastic if something similar were developed by the military.
I am a Helicopter Pilot. I designed a helicopter that was powered by standard turbine engines, but their sole purpose was to power a fan that sucked in air and under high pressure delivered it the rotor tips. I also surmised it would help with retreating blade stall since HP air was being blown over the retreating blade. With very little torque, the tail rotor would be extremely small or replaced with a NOTAR system. Would it ever fly? Probably not, but it was fun to contemplate.
Man i love this channel,it's probably my favourite,the production quality is top notch!....keep the video's and new channels coming,the original narrator really makes all the difference!...
The reason the project was dropped isn't unknown. It just isn't particularly sexy. Yes the jet tipped rotors worked well for what they were designed for. But their use was limited by fuel, control, maintenance and materials handling. Do you want to know what worked even better to solve the problem than adding secondary rockets to helicopter rotors? The GE T58 Turboshaft Engine. Which gave the helicopter the desired performance across it's entire operational range, and for the full flight time of the mission. The jet rotors were only really needed for piston powered helicopters. But the end of those was already on the horizon with the introduction of the gas turbines.
Johnny Cashes burning ring of fire live at fullsome prison springs to mind was significantly more popular than this sparky hoop.Never heard of it until now .I guess the military have their reasons .The rocket fuel tank would have been a enemy snipers dream straw donkey .I guess.?Back to the drawing board then with your dang fool fancy ideas boy wonder ..Were hopes and dreams go to die ..He should have made a bagal toaster for the top brass to redeem himself .The best God damd toster iv ever seen ..that boy deserves a medal and a place in history.
It was probably discontinued due to bell helicopters using the tech to develop the bell rocket belt in the mid 50s to early 60s. The concept of an airborne battalion of soldiers over an auxiliary backup power supply for helicopters would have been enticing to the army but due to the less than stellar endurance of the rocket belt the project was most likely abandoned.
They should have a small rocket in the tail to stop the helicopter from spinning in case the tail rotor fails. I've seen video of lots of helicopter crashes because the tail rotor failed. It would only need to work for a minute until the helicopter can hopefully land. Sensors could adjust the thrust to keep the helicopter straight depending on the force of the main rotor. You are welcome, you can send me the royalty checks via paypal.
@@cassandrafoxx4171 I don't get it, what if the fan in the tail quits working? Wouldn't it have the same effect as a tail rotor breaking? I'll have to look more into it. Also I've wondered, why don't they just have two main rotors, one far enough above the other, each going in the opposite direction. Kind of like they did some propellers during WWII before everyone started using jets.
@@BrettonFerguson A lot of Russian helicopters are like that, like the Kamov Ka-50 Havoc. The Americans tried it, making a very fast, augmented-jet helicopter, The Sikorsky S-69 (XH-59A) ABC, or Advancing Blade Concept.
More than the air force, the U.S. army went big on helicopters. Especially after the 1949 Key West agreement that restricted its fixed-wing aviation. I wonder if the ROR was not adopted because everyone saw the turbine engines coming down the road. The first Huey prototype flew in 1956.
I ran the numbers- it's only 74 hp. At the maximum 245 rpm rotor speed, the rotor are going 20,400 feet per minute. 30 lbf * 4 motors is 120 lbf. That's 2,446,374 pound force feet per minute. A hp is 33,000 pound force feet per minute, so this makes 74 hp
Another great video! Pretty sure ROR died because gas turbine tech was coming into its own. At the same time they were experimenting with ROR Sikorsky had a flying example of a jet turbine powered helicopter
There were other ROR helicopter designs . Even JOR helicopters . The US military researched the hell out of the "On rotor" power plant helicopter. Jet engines on rotor . Forgot the problems they had but they tried it .
It’s a really intriguing idea…the utility versus the danger of HTP and rocket motors & associated engineering generally-and the logistics w/b a bitch, too. I think turbine motors like with the Huey were just around the corner at this time and provided more power and were undoubtedly safer; the idea of rocket fuel all over your helicopter and pilots…and passengers, in the event of, say, an armor-piercing incendiary in the HTP tank. Very cool concept, though!
Help I'm 39 and never been drunk before. I just swallowed a whole bottle of jagermiester now im watching these videos. I can't get enough. They have little meaning in my life but I love them
Jagermiester was prob not the best to start off with...🥴🥴...good luck. And yes lots of water, maybe Gatorade/Powerade or better yet Pedialyte. Get the electrolytes up before the dehydration sets in.
The thumbnail image for this video is NOT and ROR system. Instead, it was a single passenger self-rescue helicopter for downed aviators with ramjets on the blade tips. It would be better described as a rotary flamethrower. It was started by cranking a handle on the side, which is probably what the person in the photo is doing.
Wow...seeing all these different styles of helicopters and planes and ALL the money...We have spent is just stupid and insane!!!💯💯🙌✔️✔️guess gotta learn sumhow!!💯😆
I wonder if they were at all drippy after landing and whether it was dangerous to approach if there were leaks and I bet it was hard to control leaks with all the stress on those connections. Plus it looks like that they just smacked those apparatus is onto the ends of the blades and I wonder if they didn't just fling right back off once in awhile. And if even one were to be lost I wonder if it ruins the whole setup.
Hydrogen peroxide at high concentration is a powerful oxidant. Also if there is an organic material or some reactant metal contamination in the tank or in the rocket motor feed lines the peroxide will rapidly decompose and an explosion will occur. Hydrogen peroxide cannot be placed inside the tank for long periods of time because it will slowly decompose generating an increasing oxygen atmosphere inside the tank. Filling the tank is a very risky operation, if something goes wrong certainly will result in a fire or explosion.
The reason this was not used is crystal clear to a chemist: 95-98% H2O2 is hard to handle, shock sensitive, and prone to explode (worse than nitroglycerin). It will cause any organic matter that comes into contact with it to spontaneously burst into flames. Contact with human skin = no more human. It is expensive and difficult to produce. It is typically produced on-site because it cannot be readily transported, especially in hot humid environments. It is great in a laboratory test, but it could never be made user friendly (idiot proof) for widescale use. I will not even get into the corrosion issues.
It's sounds like a good idea, but in my opinion only as a method increase the speed that the rotors start up, getting the machine off the ground faster and in to it missions, but in flight, I'd say no, because I would think that past a particular speed, the rotors would become inefficient and ineffective, because of the massive airflow problem due to the large gaps in air density where every other blade would fly through empty space caused by the blade preceding it, and turbulence, unless the rotors were designed to perfection, new shapes like modern Augusta Westland aircraft, and you've Also got the drag or lag of the receding rotor,(the one at 90⁰s angle to port, or at 9-O-Clock as apposed 12-o-clock position, which causes that particular rotor blade to slow down significantly compared to its opposite number, so 4 blades minimum them, then again two bladed like the Huey would surely have a large enough gap between each Rotary wing to stop the dead Air affect.
The actual reason to why these devices were never implimented into aircraft was due to the significant damage it did to the blades, exposed parts and its structure after its use, the safe storage and re filling of the helos after it had been used, and the high risk of the propellant entering into the cockpit onto the pilots after it being shot by a projectile. Several eager Pilots from the USAF chose to be test Pilots for this unit...until they were later made aware and saw what the propellant did to aluminium metals and human skin...the remaining others (who believed they could 'tough it out' as women were using it heaps in their hair) left testing 'pronto' once they were shown how in its actual concentrated (H202) form it corroded 3 inch thick solid Stainless Steel components inside cooling systems of Nuclear reactors 😁
This is an interesting piece of history. The reason for discontinuation is "unknown"? We should learn what that reason was, because it would inform future research into this system, should it occur. I'll bet it will come down to money - that is, Sikorsky couldn't make enough profit, so it was scrapped.
I think I know why it was never used. The advent of the turbine engine which was being tested at this time. Would make the ROR obsolete before it could be installed.
Bingo. The legendary Bell Huey first flew in 1956.
That and the logistics of keeping operational units supplied with the fuel, spare blade tip rockets, etc.
Safety too.. that concoction on HP was incredibly dangerous just hitting a line or the capsule would basically ensure the death of the helo and crew.
As someone who flies helis
It VERY likely failed because the rotor blades are not meant to have torque originating from the tips…. Also additional vibrations will completely fuck up your blades
@J D I remember that episode, too. I don't remember the stamp causing any problems. What if a bird shit on a rotor blade? That weighs more than a stamp. There would be helicopters crashing everywhere!
I'm sure that these rotors were designed with that in mind.
Wouldnt they have seen rotor blade instability issues while testing the ROR?
I think it likely failed because it was a lot easier to just get more hp out of the motor in the next revision than to install an additional power system.
The turbine powered helicopter came along not much later which really helped out the power situation also.
These no-nonsense straight to the point videos by Dark are immensely addictive!
I trained in Bell 47s in Janesville, Wisconsin, during the summer of 1989. High density altitude every day. Our fuel was limited to half tanks just so we could hover. The ROR system would have made sense. Omniflight Helicopters was a great school and full Bell maintenance facility. Got my Commercial add on license in three weeks.
I suspect the reason it was never adopted has something to do with the extremely corrosive qualities of 90% hydrogen peroxide. Not to mention the danger of having a tank such a high-quality oxidizer on board in a crash situation.
Lets not forget on-site storage of 90% peroxide at any military base facility in a conflict area would be a serious challenge too. Storage of this material in such a way that it just maintains it's 90% concentration is a serious challenge. The fact that it's a general hazard in ideal conditions for all concerned doesn't help either.
Hydrogen Peroxide at 90% purity can also be an unstable high explosive. This is the stuff that sunk the Russian submarine _Kursk_ .
Yeah and if one of those fails when other ate running then rotor system would rip apart
Same reason it was problematic in torpedoes.
Or the fact your enemy has a nice big target (the tank) to rain hellfire down into the cockpit. Not super practical but that’s how innovation works.. a shitload of bad ideas til you strike genius.
I had to agree to a NDA but I'm free to tell now. My cousin invented the the design of a transmissionless helo. It used a jet engine and 50% thrust was sent up through the blade and out the tip of the blades and 50% thrust out the back with no need for tail roter because there was no auto rotation. He invented the designs for that prop
Wow that’s great Thanks for sharing
I don't really wanna talk details but my dad helped with stealth technology for Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman.
@@SickBuckNaStY that's awesome
We used to have real American heros that wanted the US to be the best in the world. Duty and Honor were ideals to strive for, not this demoralizing mediocrity and idiocracy we are currently suffering from .
@@buenodye4723 amen
I wonder if they didn't like what happened when a bullet went through the spinning dome full of highly volatile hydrogen peroxide on top of a flying helicopter.
I mean to be able to hit that thing above means you have to essentially hit the chopper already which makes no difference. Plus it's well protected from ground fire as it is above the chopper and you can always add self sealing tanks instead.
Boom...
Hydrogen Peroxide is NOT highly volatile. It is a lot like water, only heavier and has a boiling point 90 degrees greater than water at 302F. It doesn’t burn or ignite in the presence of an ignition source. It is an oxidizer and at the 90% concentrations they mentioned, reacts with organic material(humans) pretty severely and can cause severe injury. Which was probably why they chose not to adopt the system. It’s use as a fuel involves a catalyst, in this case a platinum or silver mesh screen in the rocket chamber at the rotor tip. When the fuel flows into the chamber the catalytic reaction causes the atoms to separate into h2o(water) and O2(oxygen) It also releases a tremendous amount of heat(like an auto catalytic converter) which flashes the water to steam. The expansion to Steam provides the clean thrust without fire/flame… for other examples of this power source, search Bell rocket belt, Bell rocket pack, Bell Jet Pack, ect…
The Army didn't want to have to move big tanks of that stuff to their operating bases, add all the associated infrastructure, suffer the inevitable accidents, for seven minutes of double-power flight time.
Don't forget as I expounded in my post above. The Turbine engine for helicopters was already coming down the road. The French were experimenting with it and the Bell Huey prototype flew in 1956.
90% hydrogen peroxide is hazardous stuff to work with and the military probably realized guys would end up getting injured. Around the same time they also started using turbine power in place of the heavy inefficient piston engines so that resolved most of the power issues.
There's a reason (a very good reason) almost all navies stopped using HTP torpedoes decades ago. They are scarily unstable weapons. If the HTP started to decompose in the fuel tank of the torpedo you would have less than 30 seconds to jettison the weapon before it explodes
@@killman369547 The Kursk Disaster showcased that one perfectly.
You should do one on the Hiller Hornet Helicopter, saw it at Fantasy of Flight Museum. It uses Ram Jet engines on the blade tips.
I'd never heard of that until now, cheers mate! 🤝 🍻
I remember seeing that in a book when I was about 7 or 8, always thought it looked really cool.
Super nice museum in the bay area has one in perfect conditions.
It had no tail rotor because you are producing the torque on the spinning blades 🤯
I've watched a lot of Aviation documentaries, but I have never heard about this before!
The ROR would've been nice to have in the mountains of Afghanistan.
Bro.... SERIOUSLY. All the issues we had to overcome.... and they had a solution in the 50's?!?!?!?!?!
I've pumped fuel to an off board bladder to get the bird up, then pumped the fuel back in.... holding my damn breath, lol.
Thank you all for your service. I went to basic in 90 and due to a preexisting knee injury that reappeared 4 weeks into bt and got a “Thank you for trying, keep the ugly glasses and here’s a plane ticket home” speech. My oldest son is 10 years in the Army now. I live 1/4 mile from Ft Bragg and I’m damn proud of all who serve(d). Much love 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Keep in mind that those helicopters had piston engine with far less power than today ones. So it's not that sure if it could really helps nowadays.
@@SebastienChedalBornu true. But do we know that it wouldn't have? Or a variation/advancement.... or even sticking with it in the. Beginning and adapting technology with the growth of helicopter tech.
It just seems like it worked, and they never pushed forward.
@@ryateo1 there was other prototypes of rocket on rotors especially for VTOL airplanes but they abandonnés because of serious vibrations. The problem when you apply too much force on the tip plus the wind turbulences etc. I think this proto worked because it was an additional of what 30% max may be less. Rotors have to bend for the sake of the flight. But if you put all the force on the tip then you pull on the rotor rlmaking it too stiff. So everything goes into the copter
I like the thumbnail it's just "ror"
Interesting project, I thought this video might be about Hiller's Hornet ramjet helicopter. Worked by basically the same principals, just using a pulse jet engine on each rotor tip.
Very cool. Amazing what we come up with as humans we need to. Now we need to solve global warming, water shortages, making sure people have enough food and water and education and safety.
I'm not going to be able to sleep until I know why the hell this wasn't put into production. I'm dumbfounded.
Just Google T-stoff, or watch any documentary about the Me-163 Komet.
It may have been another money grab project. But still it should have been used.
Even now it could come in handy for rescue use or around other terrain which needs the extra boost.
Because the idea was crazy.
@@zoperxplex yeah, so was going to the Moon.
it's the US army, thats why. lots of tech was developed and then just never used.
I imagine the volatility of the fuel outweighed any potential benefits.
And the fact a rocket doesn't last very long.
@@v4skunk739 yeah, 7 minutes is can be difficult to find a spot, descend, and land.
The fuel used was just hydrogen peroxide
@@1scorchedphoenix509 it was pure hydrogen peroxide. There's a difference
Sooo... if the fuel had minimal to no volatility, and the rockets lasted longer, it'd be good?
The Fairey Rotodyne used jet powered rotor tips but the noise was too great for a commercial helicopter used in urban areas.
Ha, you beat me to it!
Fairey did not mess around with a small craft either, up to 48 passengers.
Just a shame it was too loud.
Something I admire about the Americans is innovation and experimentation like this . . .
A few years later this jet rotor concept would emerge as prat of an "Everyman's helicopter". the jets were streams of gas which came from a gas generator and was diffused by tubing out to the end of the rotors. One of the nicer things about it was the decreased need for the tail prop to keep straight flight possible, as the torque applied to the axis of flight was much smaller- another was it made for an all weather helicopter because the heated gases kept the rotor blades warm enough to keep ice off. But back then we were thinking flying automobiles for the masses were "right around the corner". I don't know how we got that idea , seeing as how it was a big yellow bus bearing down on us!
the entire airframe is basically an aluminum catalyst, with 300lbs of corrosive fuel on top, needing to be topped off by the average pump jockey in the field.
reason where certainly known, why they didn't go forward with that Buck Rogers stuff..
This channel should be watched for the pretty pictures and not for real research.
Reminds me of the ad in the back of Popular Mechanics for plans for pulse jet powered rotor blades.
Ah yes, Ed Gluhareff. Turning propane into noise!
I learned something new today... Thank you... The Dark Channels never disappoint
If a stray bullet hits a fuel tank full of rocket fuel, you're gonna get a big boom. And hardening the tank to withstand small arms fire is going to make it a lot heavier.
3:00 The idea came from a coyote seen on rocket roller skates.
I was assigned to an Air Rescue detachment who flew multiple variants of the Huey H-1 . . UH-1F & HH-1H. The unit Det 7, 37th Aerospace Rescue & Recovery . . . serviced the SAC mission at Minot AFB, North Dakota. 😎🇺🇸
How'd you like the wx?🤔
Ever build models of helicopters? I did. Lots of them! My dad taught helicopter flight school at Ft Rucker, Alabama. I wasn’t satisfied with just building models. I had to modify them. I wanted working rotors. Made it so and wanted more! More Power! Putting in a faster motor always resulted in the rotors coming apart! IMHO, stresses of increased centrifugal forces caused the developers similar problems.
I heard of these years ago. Apparently the system would not scale and the brass wanted VTOL anyway
Perfect being the enemy of the good.
Enter…the Fairey Rotodyne (tipjets)
About 15 years ago at a RMI reunion in Rockaway; the ROR subject came up. One of the engineers who was on the program said that one of the main issues that canceled ROR was the tests showed a tattletale Circular flame patterns during night testing. The military was not very receptive to this. Even if hydrogen Peroxide used as a mono propellant; i.e steam, the reaction did produced a visible flame. Also; my opinion, fielding this propellant would be a nightmare in terms of logistics, plus the hazards; it is hypergolic to organic materials. As power plant/gas turbines and helicopter designs improved; ROR and the Hiller ramjet program faded away. As well JATO for DoD aircrafts too.
Vince Granato thanks for that first hand bit of information. 👍👍👍👍🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Geez, maybe someone realized that filling rotor blades with explosive chemicals is a bad idea after all. 👏👏
T-Stoff what could go wrong?
I had an uncle that was pretty old time, and he hunted with black powder as a matter of habit, as it was cheaper.
Anyway, he got distracted one time and powdered his old rifle twice. Needless to say, it didn't end well for him. That happened long before I was born, (I'm 70) but he still had the scars, and hadn't grown back the finger he lost.
Filling a spinning rotor blade with a known unstable fuel sounds like a planned meeting with St. Peter. (Just as a rule of thumb, I don't mess with things marked "unstable" very often, and the one time I did, I divorced her 3 years later. 🙄 )
👏👏👏
love the subtle shade thrown on centrifugal
It was used on Airwolf :)
🤣🤣🤣
Need more power? Just add a few rockets to it. Most American thing I've heard and seen today. 👍🇺🇸
In the 1950's Fairey Aviation experimented with a number of rotorcraft which used tip jets instead of driving the rotor from an engine. These being: 1. Jet Gyrodyne (1954), 2. Ultra Light Helicopter (1955) and 3. the legendary Rotodyne (1957). As the rotors were driven from their tips, no torque reaction was produced, which did away with the need for a tail rotor.
Should be considered as a safety feature on all helicopters
Chocket Ropter
🤣 Good one, Scooby!
Love how the air forces' solutions tend to be "lets just add rockets to it".
Another interesting video! Strange how the ror never caught on. I'm sure there was a reason. Possibly due to temp changes and freezing up or possibly even fire or explosion of the peroxide in the event it comes into contact with a catalyst inadvertently during refueling, maintenance or transfer.
retitle to: Something new I learned to about the U.S. military. thank you.
When we fly helicopters we try and land them much like a fixed wing aircraft on a runway.
This approach is the most efficient approach.
Now if a helicopter is operating in high altitude, carrying a large cargo and forced to do a vertical landing.
This would be very taxing for the helicopter, particularly when it's using a piston engine.
When I was in flight school, they had a little museum there with a little helicopter with ram jets on the ends of the blades.
I read this title twice as “Helicopters with rotor blades” and thought okay, I’ll watch it anyway 😂
So much innovation came from wars.....sort of horrible way to advance but necessity is the mother of invention.
double uploads from the dark channels sweet
Color me doubtful about this technology being safe in the 1950’s
😆😂
Go check out the Hiller helicopter with the turbines on each end of the rotor blade. No other engine required! Had a model of it back in the early '50s and I got to see it fly as Hiller was about two miles from our house.
I'm still hoping to see a real life version of Airwolf. I know it was a work of fiction, but it would be fantastic if something similar were developed by the military.
I am a Helicopter Pilot. I designed a helicopter that was powered by standard turbine engines, but their sole purpose was to power a fan that sucked in air and under high pressure delivered it the rotor tips. I also surmised it would help with retreating blade stall since HP air was being blown over the retreating blade. With very little torque, the tail rotor would be extremely small or replaced with a NOTAR system. Would it ever fly? Probably not, but it was fun to contemplate.
I really don't understand why anyone thinks that a video like this deserves any 👎
What did they expect?
Man, what I would give to see that at night in person...
Should do a video on the Fairey Rotodyne.
Man i love this channel,it's probably my favourite,the production quality is top notch!....keep the video's and new channels coming,the original narrator really makes all the difference!...
Cool but I’m disappointed that there wasn’t fire streaking from the rotors.
The Wiley E Coyote technology is simply amazing 🤣
Because they figured out something better...🛸
The reason the project was dropped isn't unknown. It just isn't particularly sexy. Yes the jet tipped rotors worked well for what they were designed for. But their use was limited by fuel, control, maintenance and materials handling. Do you want to know what worked even better to solve the problem than adding secondary rockets to helicopter rotors? The GE T58 Turboshaft Engine. Which gave the helicopter the desired performance across it's entire operational range, and for the full flight time of the mission. The jet rotors were only really needed for piston powered helicopters. But the end of those was already on the horizon with the introduction of the gas turbines.
Johnny Cashes burning ring of fire live at fullsome prison springs to mind was significantly more popular than this sparky hoop.Never heard of it until now .I guess the military have their reasons .The rocket fuel tank would have been a enemy snipers dream straw donkey .I guess.?Back to the drawing board then with your dang fool fancy ideas boy wonder ..Were hopes and dreams go to die ..He should have made a bagal toaster for the top brass to redeem himself .The best God damd toster iv ever seen ..that boy deserves a medal and a place in history.
It was probably discontinued due to bell helicopters using the tech to develop the bell rocket belt in the mid 50s to early 60s. The concept of an airborne battalion of soldiers over an auxiliary backup power supply for helicopters would have been enticing to the army but due to the less than stellar endurance of the rocket belt the project was most likely abandoned.
Still a great concept. Wish i had a switch on my heli that would add power when i need it.
I just read the title as helicopter with rotor blades. Like isn’t that what defines a helicopter lmao
It's exactly the same only totally different
It says "Helicopter with (Rocket) Blades" Go smoke another joint.
@@philipmartin708 bro how dumb do you think I am? I wouldn’t’ve mentioned it if I hadn’t reread it.
They should have a small rocket in the tail to stop the helicopter from spinning in case the tail rotor fails. I've seen video of lots of helicopter crashes because the tail rotor failed. It would only need to work for a minute until the helicopter can hopefully land. Sensors could adjust the thrust to keep the helicopter straight depending on the force of the main rotor. You are welcome, you can send me the royalty checks via paypal.
That's why they developed NOTAR, or 'NO-TA-Rotor'. If you don't have a spinning tail rotor, it can't get damaged..
@@cassandrafoxx4171 I don't get it, what if the fan in the tail quits working? Wouldn't it have the same effect as a tail rotor breaking? I'll have to look more into it.
Also I've wondered, why don't they just have two main rotors, one far enough above the other, each going in the opposite direction. Kind of like they did some propellers during WWII before everyone started using jets.
@@BrettonFerguson A lot of Russian helicopters are like that, like the Kamov Ka-50 Havoc. The Americans tried it, making a very fast, augmented-jet helicopter, The Sikorsky S-69 (XH-59A) ABC, or Advancing Blade Concept.
@@cassandrafoxx4171 Cool. Thanks. I'll look into them.
I worked at a printing factory once and we'd use concentrated HP to clean the floors and also our hands sometimes. Worked great.
So, they made a version of NOS for a helicopter, nice :D
More than the air force, the U.S. army went big on helicopters. Especially after the 1949 Key West agreement that restricted its fixed-wing aviation. I wonder if the ROR was not adopted because everyone saw the turbine engines coming down the road. The first Huey prototype flew in 1956.
I ran the numbers- it's only 74 hp. At the maximum 245 rpm rotor speed, the rotor are going 20,400 feet per minute. 30 lbf * 4 motors is 120 lbf. That's 2,446,374 pound force feet per minute. A hp is 33,000 pound force feet per minute, so this makes 74 hp
Imagine the steel nerves from the CBI theater pioneering chopper pilots during WW2.
Another great video! Pretty sure ROR died because gas turbine tech was coming into its own. At the same time they were experimenting with ROR Sikorsky had a flying example of a jet turbine powered helicopter
Minecraft: redstone
Games that doesnt imitate real life physics so you need an outside engine to run your helicopter engine:
1:33 "Revolutionary achievement..." hah! Nice.
With all due respect to US helicopter designers this system (in a few different forms) had been tried/used by other nations at the same time.
With modern materials they could revisit this for special operations use....
🚁 = 🙂👍🏼 but weapons = 😕👎🏼‼️.
This invention = & 😳☠️😱‼️.
But interesting informations ✌🏼.
Pretty cool!
It reminds me of legendary Panjandrum...
This was the beginning of the " let's spend millions of dollars on a project & never use it " philosophy in the military.
There were other ROR helicopter designs .
Even JOR helicopters .
The US military researched the hell out of the "On rotor" power plant helicopter. Jet engines on rotor . Forgot the problems they had but they tried it .
It’s a really intriguing idea…the utility versus the danger of HTP and rocket motors & associated engineering generally-and the logistics w/b a bitch, too. I think turbine motors like with the Huey were just around the corner at this time and provided more power and were undoubtedly safer; the idea of rocket fuel all over your helicopter and pilots…and passengers, in the event of, say, an armor-piercing incendiary in the HTP tank.
Very cool concept, though!
Help I'm 39 and never been drunk before. I just swallowed a whole bottle of jagermiester now im watching these videos. I can't get enough. They have little meaning in my life but I love them
Haha tomorrow is gonna suck make sure you drink a lot of water before bed and tomorrow.
Jagermiester was prob not the best to start off with...🥴🥴...good luck. And yes lots of water, maybe Gatorade/Powerade or better yet Pedialyte. Get the electrolytes up before the dehydration sets in.
haha keep watching these videos! It will help you concentrate
Losing your virginity too? 🤔
@@gus473 no that was taken care of years ago
The thumbnail image for this video is NOT and ROR system. Instead, it was a single passenger self-rescue helicopter for downed aviators with ramjets on the blade tips. It would be better described as a rotary flamethrower. It was started by cranking a handle on the side, which is probably what the person in the photo is doing.
Please consider slowing the narration a little.
Billy Burr should get this 😃
ROR are my initials. I'm rocket powered!😚
feels good to be early
They stole my idea. Damn this military industrial complex!
*bites back of fist*
Wow...seeing all these different styles of helicopters and planes and ALL the money...We have spent is just stupid and insane!!!💯💯🙌✔️✔️guess gotta learn sumhow!!💯😆
It's kinda messed up. All for the sake of "progress"
Pretty sure this was sold as a power booster for race cars in the 1960s. Pretty sure I read about in popular mechanics.
I instantly thought of Red Skull running away from Captain America
Looks like something you've made straight out of Gmod
I wonder if they were at all drippy after landing and whether it was dangerous to approach if there were leaks and I bet it was hard to control leaks with all the stress on those connections. Plus it looks like that they just smacked those apparatus is onto the ends of the blades and I wonder if they didn't just fling right back off once in awhile. And if even one were to be lost I wonder if it ruins the whole setup.
What would happen if the chopper gets shot at? Sounds like a convenient bomb for the enemy to take advantage of.
imagine if modern helicopters use this system
Hydrogen peroxide at high concentration is a powerful oxidant. Also if there is an organic material or some reactant metal contamination in the tank or in the rocket motor feed lines the peroxide will rapidly decompose and an explosion will occur. Hydrogen peroxide cannot be placed inside the tank for long periods of time because it will slowly decompose generating an increasing oxygen atmosphere inside the tank. Filling the tank is a very risky operation, if something goes wrong certainly will result in a fire or explosion.
Yhea that sounds really safe and sounds like it wouldn't snap the propellers or be really unstable
Rocket must be pointy!
The reason this was not used is crystal clear to a chemist: 95-98% H2O2 is hard to handle, shock sensitive, and prone to explode (worse than nitroglycerin). It will cause any organic matter that comes into contact with it to spontaneously burst into flames. Contact with human skin = no more human. It is expensive and difficult to produce. It is typically produced on-site because it cannot be readily transported, especially in hot humid environments. It is great in a laboratory test, but it could never be made user friendly (idiot proof) for widescale use. I will not even get into the corrosion issues.
It's sounds like a good idea, but in my opinion only as a method increase the speed that the rotors start up, getting the machine off the ground faster and in to it missions, but in flight, I'd say no, because I would think that past a particular speed, the rotors would become inefficient and ineffective, because of the massive airflow problem due to the large gaps in air density where every other blade would fly through empty space caused by the blade preceding it, and turbulence, unless the rotors were designed to perfection, new shapes like modern Augusta Westland aircraft, and you've Also got the drag or lag of the receding rotor,(the one at 90⁰s angle to port, or at 9-O-Clock as apposed 12-o-clock position, which causes that particular rotor blade to slow down significantly compared to its opposite number, so 4 blades minimum them, then again two bladed like the Huey would surely have a large enough gap between each Rotary wing to stop the dead Air affect.
The actual reason to why these devices were never implimented into aircraft was due to the significant damage it did to the blades, exposed parts and its structure after its use, the safe storage and re filling of the helos after it had been used, and the high risk of the propellant entering into the cockpit onto the pilots after it being shot by a projectile.
Several eager Pilots from the USAF chose to be test Pilots for this unit...until they were later made aware and saw what the propellant did to aluminium metals and human skin...the remaining others (who believed they could 'tough it out' as women were using it heaps in their hair) left testing 'pronto' once they were shown how in its actual concentrated (H202) form it corroded 3 inch thick solid Stainless Steel components inside cooling systems of Nuclear reactors 😁
This is an interesting piece of history. The reason for discontinuation is "unknown"? We should learn what that reason was, because it would inform future research into this system, should it occur. I'll bet it will come down to money - that is, Sikorsky couldn't make enough profit, so it was scrapped.
Rocket to me baby... let it all spew out...
I was expecting a Big Rocket attached to the Rotor Blade XD
I know why. It didn't cost enough. Reduced wear and tear on other parts. Easy to maintain.