Ups & Downs From Doctor Who 12.5 - Fugitive Of The Judoon
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- Опубліковано 17 жов 2024
- A huge episode in the grand scheme of #DoctorWho, but it could cause shockwaves that destroy the show's 57 year history...
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I'm going with parallel Doctor from another universe. Either our Doctor has ended up in the wrong universe or whatever the Master did on Gallifrey has started to break down the barriers between dimensions (Logopolis revisited) Doctor Ruth, Lee and Gat are all Time Lords from another universe, where the Time War never happened and Gallifrey is still alive and well but these Time Lords are not defenders of peace and observers of the universe
Got to agree here. Parallel universe was the first thing to popped into my head. Its known that there are parallel dimensions, it's not that hard to believe that there are others with a Doctor of our own. The Master could have done something or maybe the Time Lords in one universe thought they needed another. I'm wondering if the Master we saw was our Doctors.
Yep gotta agree
Yeah, I wondered where the Master came from because I thought Missy got killed and didn't regenerate? But my memory is not 100%. Would be an amazing twist if Master Oh destroyed the wrong Gallifrey and that Master Oh is actually a good guy for wanting to destroy a militant Gallifrey. Could have proper Doctor and parallel Master working together.
Maybe an affect of other dimensions bleeding through is the fact that no one on earth is remembering all of the past alien Encounters throughout the years
Yup, I'm tagging along on this theory too.
I don't think they need to write Jack, they just give JB the costume and let him be Jack :)
@gary jones I believe that 😃
He just puts on the coat, they tell him to say something about the Lone Cybermen, and he just does the shtick.
The Master went back in time and killed one of the previous Doctors, causing a different regeneration, resulting in Doctor Ruth. This is rippling through the thousands of years of the Doctor's timeline and will soon catch up with Jodie's Doctor and erase her from history. She must go back in time and find The Master to prevent him from doing it in the first place. Ruth's Doctor refuses to help at first because it means she will be erased instead, but eventually she agrees and they both work together to stop The Master and restore history. The timeless child is Jack.
Ooh, I like that.
That would acutally be creative. Want to work for the BBC?
@@elidasilva5558 Oh hell no.
@@NeonVisual sex?
I like that theory, it's about the only way it'll work without ruining the Doctor's real (as we know it) timeline. Btw just wanted to tell some Whovians that my 6 year old son and I saw Paul McGann on Sunday, got a photo with him and a go with his sonic, such a nice bloke.
So many people not getting the hint when Lee was killed. She called him 'faithful Companion'. It's so slight, but it's supposed to be one of the hints that Ruth is The Doctor.
I imagine that Jack meeting Jodie's Doctor would go with the Troughton response:
"You've had work done."
"I have, yeah."
"I don't like it."
Theory: The Alliance could be the, well, alliance of all the Doctor’s enemies from The Pandorica Opens?
Yeah, I was thinking the same
or maybe the Alliance is the alliance of all the old companions. like Martha, Mickey, Bill, Clara, Me, Jack (rose, maybe?) etc...I wouldn't see Donna, unless they find a way to bring her back (it would be soooo cool to see Catherine Tate again, though!!!!) maybe if Jack got the Vortex Manipulator, he could have fetched Amy and Rory, and River... okay I'm dreaming. but it would be so cool!!!
I initially thought this too but the cybermen were part of that alliance. Maybe they broke away but it seems more likely the Daleks would have done that
Lee JT MJ Paul Perhaps sometime around the battle(s) of Trenzalore, the Alliance kinda fragmented with some staying together thinking that the Doctor survived, some left thinking he died after the church exploded with him inside it, and there were some (most likely the Sontarans, Daleks and Cybermen) that were just given the boot because they were more focused on universal domination, conversion and/or just simply going into war for the Hell of it and used the Alliance for there own means.
@@thishuman8759 that's probably true tbh but I don't remember the church blowing up. I remember that Daleks invading but don't remember it being destroyed. Actually watching Time of the Doctor at the minute
Season 12 episode 10: The Doctor into the doctor-verse
Would have gone with ‘Who-niverse’
Doctor Who: Endgame
Doctors Assemble
Yeah
Simon O'Neill possible though Chibbers says it not alt u. That doesn’t mean it not alt timeline tho
There was a grey zone in regeneration between the 2nd and 3rd Doctors. This lead to the Season 6b theory.
And Ruth’s TARDIS exterior matches Troughton’s, not Hartnell’s.
if that so, she supposedly know about sonic screwdriver
ヨッチです I figured that Troughton only used the sonic as a screwdriver and only occasionally, whereas Whittaker’s does loads of things.
Like someone who has a telephone but doesn’t recognise an iPhone.
Not that I believe this to be the case, it’s just one possible theory.
Ghost196311 Yeah, the sonic screwdriver was only used in three stories in Troughton’s era.
Ghost196311 I said this in another reply
If Doctor Ruth is a regen between 2&3 it breaks what we know about regenerations
My thoughts exactly, Chibnall is bound to know of 6b. My guess is that once the Timelords were finished with the Doctor, any regenerations were reset and his mind was wiped of anything that happened and then exiled back on Earth with the regeneration. It's not the first time the Doctor was plucked out of his own time stream to do the Timelords' bidding.
I really liked the episode. My theory is she's a parallel doctor. We've had parallel counterparts before but not a parallel doctor.
If time is unravelling then it could be bleeding through going at the same pace but also not being obvious that the world's are different. So the Master could also be the parallel counterpart too so he finds out the secrets of Gallifrey being angry destroying every version of it. Perhaps a similar scenario to the DC crossovers where different universes end up merging into 1.
Just a theory.
That was my first thought as well, and frankly I hope we are right. either that of Ruth isn't really the doctor, just a rogue time lord claiming to be the doctor in order to course trouble for everyone's favorite time lord/ Lady.
Would explain the 12 earths. I hope you are right.
@@mattevans4377 they were already kind of explained as earth at different times. although where the master is concerned anything and indeed anything is possible.
@Luka Macdonald it still could be that. a doctor from a separate dimension or reality is still a better solution than a forgotten regeneration . as i said anything is possible where the master is concerned we will just have to see what happened in the second half of the season.
I'm on a similar wavelength.
I love John Barrowman. The man just has such energy and charisma, and an amazing emotional range. He can be happy-go-lucky like we saw in _Fugitive of the Judoon,_ but he can also be really dark, like we see a lot of in _Torchwood._ He's a fantastic actor. I'm glad we're getting Captain Jack back.
My theory of this Story is that some point in Series 11 or 12, the 13th Doctor has travelled to a parallel universe. That's why "time is whizzing around" her, that's because she doesn't belong in this universe. The Master in Skyfall said something like "Everything isn't as it seems" and that fuels my theory of the Master warning 13 that this isn't her universe. The reason why 13 doesn't recognise the new Doctor is because she is the Parallel Doctor.
That will be one of the biggest things in DW.
Now that is an interesting idea.
She could have entered another universe when she fell out the TARDIS in her first ep
@@Jauch09 Yes true!
Amazing theory and pretty possible lol
My theory: The Timeless Child is messing up with the timeline. So, several alternate timelines are forming in one universe. (So, Ruth is not from parallel universe. Just from different timeline in the same universe). This would slowly head to the end of the universe because several timelines cannot coexist in one universe. So, it would be up to the doctor to fix this. 13 and Ruth would fix this together but Ruth would disappear in the end (maybe a heroic sacrifice?) as the timeline is fixed.
Or, hopefully, Jodie is sacrificed and we get to keep Ruth 😁
And somehow Ruth was just an alternate regeneration from capaldi meaning none of the past (except for jodies run) is lost.
Chibnall said Doctor Rush ws an actual real incarnation, not an alternative Doctor.
@@MrPaulmorris7777 neither was said
@@fingersau6692 "“The important thing to say is - she is definitively the Doctor,” Chris Chibnall has said of the new Time Lord
Jack being back is the best thing that's happened in Doctor Who in a while
Too bad this is the only episode he'll be in, confirmed.
@@ThisisCitrus that is super lame, I was hoping for at least 1 episode with him and the Doctor
Theory: The Jidoon's scanner cannot differentiate between family members, and Ruth is actually Tennant's doctor's daughter.
But that doesn't explain why the timelords are alive and want to murder the doctor
Or why she calls herself the doctor, doesn't remember the doctor or why she has a TARDIS
Didnt the doctors sonic screwdriver scanner say they were the same being though?
jenny was human timelord hybrid
@@animeking8275 nope she was a single timelord child made from just the doctors tissue in that machine thing
My theory: the overall arc is called Crisis on Infinite Gallifreys.
For the first time in my life I'm wishing for an alternate timeline.
I lost it at "who in the ever loving piss is this" I'm dying of laughter! I love these videos
Missy: I remember the Doctor when she was a little girl ...
Not necessarily a thing given missy is a little unhinged and may merely be thinking of The Doctor's cowardice as like a girl.
I think the Doctor has gone through a whole cycle of regerations before who we know to be the first. The TARDIS was old back then because it was retired from the Doctors previous run as a Time Lord. His mind was fragile or wiped so he could retire peaceful. Unfortunately, his TARDIS missed him, and called him back. Thus began the Doctor Who series.
Given the fact that Missy rarely lied in her story ark leads to believe her statement to be true. She manipulated people but never really lied to them.
No chameleon chip broke in ep 1 so tarsus wouldn’t be police box has to be after one
The Planet of the Nerd yeah but you're forgetting the surrounding context.
Clara: Since when have you cared?
Missy: Since we met, since the cloister wars, since he was a little girl. One of those was a lie, can you guess which one?
Definitely a down for the clumsily handled Captain Jack scene (which I still enjoyed), but the rest of it was a really good watch. The best Whittaker episode we've seen full stop, honestly. Good performances all round, gripping and intriguing. Of course, they may make a mess of it, but judging the merits of this episode alone, I was a fan.
This is all true
I can easily forgive the Captain Jack stuff being a bit cheesy (but good cheesy) because they are clearly setting up for an epic reunion later on down the line. I can live with a bit of tease, 'til then.
@@jasonblalock4429 exactly bro
Yes it was get rid of the three stages and it would be just bearable
_”The Next Doctor”_ was the Christmas special for 2008.
Mr. Scarlo that’s what I was thinking of
Look it's really simple.
When a Timelord dies they regenerate.
When Gallifrey dies...
An elegant theory: Kudos!
Daaaamn a very clean theory. and sound really reaaaaaly nice
Unfortunately, you're not working on the frogs vs toads summation:
All toads are frogs,
But not all frogs are toads.
Substitute Timelord for toad and Gallifreyan for frogs; essentially, Gallifrey is the home of the Timelords, who are Gallifreyans, this doesn't bestow any special ability on Gallifrey itself.
No. Because the Ninth Doctor, Tenth, and Eleventh (plus the Master) all regenerated when Gallifrey was "dead" and if that's the rule, they'd have realized the planet wasn't dead
@@YenRug you can't have lords without peasants.
The Time Lords need the Gallifreyans to do things like make food, clean the toilets, guard stuff. You know, the odd jobs. Anything that brings the Time Lords back enmass, would bring back the Gallifreyans too.
It might not even be deliberate. I imagine you can't have multiple Gallifreys in the multiverse (they'd fight). So the Time Lords have some sort of stabiliser that prevents the existence of divergent versions. Destroy Gallifrey and the stabiliser stops. An alternative Gallifrey pops into existence and since it has stabiliser of its own, it's the only one.
What's the point in investing your time and empathy into a character if they keep undoing the foundations on which he was built?
The Doctor was Loomed, and not born. The "Doctor" very well existed before Hartnell's. Also, a Tardis sees all of time at once. This one is probably being cheeky.
Nothing is being undone. Think of it like the War Doctor. It is just stuff we didn't know happened.
@your dad Yea, The Other, the person he was Loomed from.
Don't remember any of that being on television. Until it's on TV, it's not canon. Also, the Doctor was born a boy. He spoke of his mother and family.
@@mekonta As well as being seen as a child boy in the series.
During the pandorica opens with matts doctor, the alliance were the group of the doctors enemies who teamed up to put him into the pandorica.
I thought when they got there - Abandoned Lighthouse my arse, that's a TARDIS.....
I was genuinly disappointed when the TARDIS was buried by the lighthouse and not the lighthouse itself
I ageree, it was disappointing that Ruth's TARDIS was not the light house and instead was berries 6 feet underground. It would have made for a good storyline.
10000s up’s for Captain Jack being back and the writing of his lines in this episode
yeah. Way too few 'up's for Capt Jack. Great that they kept it hushed up
They actually let him improv and help right some of the lines
I love Jack but a small cameo doesn't fix a trash episode
1. Ruth could be “The Rani”
2. Why didn’t Graham mention the kiss, it was meant for the Doctor.
If she's the Rani that would be incredible!!!!
She can’t be the Rani , she’s identical the Doctor.
Like The Valeyard.
And the clone Daughter of Ten.
I'm thinking rani my self no one ever heard from her after the 6th doctor I do believe
Question: did anyone else think they glossed over too quickly the Doctor's "woman to woman" remark to the Judoon commander?
Always the same exaggeration !... Subtlety is really missing... but we're used to it now, who knows ? 😃
Always the same exaggeration !... Subtlety is really missing... but we're used to it now, who knows ? 😃
dadoctah yesssss I noticed that. Was that referring to the commander being a woman
It felt too forced imo
So, something that I picked up on. I didn't notice it until the second viewing, but in the scene between Lee and Gat the Dies Ires is playing in the background. (for anyone who doesn't know what that is, look it up, there are countless videos on the topic, but it is virtually a theme that is meant to foreshadow death) I felt it was a nice touch and got super excited when I heard it. It's an Easter egg on par with the Whilhelm scream (another audio Easter egg) for me, and it's always nice to here it. Especially when you only catch it when you know what is to come.
"For the Glory of Gallifrey". That should tell you that this isn't the Gallifrey we know and love.
Quick thought just crossed my mind. What if the Lone Cyberman is Simm’s Master or Missy?
Think about it; the last time we saw Simm and Gomez’s Masters, they were both dying on a ship full of Cybermen, and since “cyberisation” doesn’t technically kill you, that could leave them stuck in a metal body unable to regenerate.
Time lord physiology is not compatible with cyber conversion though?
Drawdaluz - well, a simple line of dialogue can sort that out.
“Uh-oh, their technology is Time Lord compatible now.”
“How?”
“Does it matter? RUN!!!”
I’m pretty sure the “new doctor” is the outcome of whatever that Lone Cyberman wants from the Doctor
SpideyAnonymous, pretty good idea. Don’t think anyone has mentioned that. Maybe because of that Cyberman event and meeting her past self, she completely lost her memory of her past incarnations. That would give another reason as to why she hid as a human, as the Cyberman might try to track the Doctor down.
Good idea....
Thank You my thoughts as well. Did everyone forget about what Jack said.
Yeah, I was wondering if Jack got his message to the correct Doctor
Melanie K looks like it. Everyone’s just saying it’s a pre-Hartnell Doctor. Which would be impossible as Hartnell stole the TARDIS and had the chameleon circuit get stuck in 1963
I think that the Ruth Doctor ties into “The Lie of the Timeless Child”... maybe something to do with time lord cloning? This would also explain how Sacha’s master is apparently after Missy even though we SAW Missy die, no regeneration.
The master always found ways around the need for regeneration, whose to say that she didn't return to body snatching as was the norm before professor Yana.
Yes, but the John Simm's Master wasn't dead still, and we're not sure that there ain't no others 'editions' of the Master between him and Missy, who is effectively supposed to be the last one... But I think that the character is coming back way too early, after that beautiful and dramatic final of series 10 !... Chibnall is throwing all the cards he can at once, after that awful series 11 !!... 😃
About the Ruth Doctor, who seems to be the proper Doctor (another new one, as Chibnall has already confirmed, "because Moffat did it too"; as said the jealous new showrunner!), she looked more the Doctor to me in five minutes than JW did in one season and a half !!... But how will our friend the 'Chib' make it, with two Doctors, and three companions we barely know, after all this time ?!?...
Yes, but the John Simm's Master wasn't dead still, and we're not sure that there ain't no others 'editions' of the Master between him and Missy, who is effectively supposed to be the last one... But I think that the character is coming back way too early, after that beautiful and dramatic final of series 10 !... Chibnall is throwing all the cards he can at once, after that awful series 11 !!... 😃
About the Ruth Doctor, who seems to be the proper Doctor (another new one, as Chibnall has already confirmed, "because Moffat did it too"; as said the jealous new showrunner!), she looked more the Doctor to me in five minutes than JW did in one season and a half !!... But how will our friend the 'Chib' make it, with two Doctors, and three companions we barely know, after all this time ?!?...
"Doctor Ruth" -- So mote it be!
The "something" they sent back in time is THE DOCTOR, that's why we don't reconize Doctor Ruth, it's a River Song scenario, past and future are backwards.
first thought i had when neither had menory of the other was indeed "river-like backwards time movement for Ruth"
also maybe it's just me but [especially when talking while driving the tardis] ruth acted and even looked ALOT like River
The doctor just HAS to be a black woman now LOL
Dr Ruth.. that's a funny thought. Cameo? Dr Ruth Westheimer.
@@krystacn I'm glad I'm not the only one who picked up on how River like her behaviour was
@@krystacn I felt a strong River connection too. Like, who else other than another Doctor, calls the Doctor stupid? But it also could be because I want River back so badly. lol
One question about this is why the 2 doctors didn’t ask “how many regenerations have you had” to each other so they could find out if they were their pasts or futures
My thoughts exactly. I wanted them to pull out their wallets and start comparing past faces.
That's a good idea !!... But I'm not sure that Chibnall wants us to know everything so early of the season and a half he still has in front of him !... 😃 ;)
That's a good idea !!... But I'm not sure that Chibnall wants us to know everything so early of the season and a half he still has in front of him !... 😃 ;)
Yeah. She never asked Ruth how old she was either. A simple question that might have settled the matter there and then.
A couple of things that were in my mind at the end of this episode:
Missy said previously that she knew the doctor when she was a little girl, maybe it wasn't just a throwaway gag?
The watcher that appeared during the transition between the 4th and 5th doctors was never fully explained in the show, could it have something to do with that?
Missys comment about the doctor being a little girl and her directing the Doctor to Gallifrey that isn't there, all make sense and place her after O, which I am so hoping is what happens! It concerns me more than who Ruth's doctor is!
The Valeyard came to my mind first.
The watcher was kinda explained as being because it was near the fourth doctor’s regeneration into the fifth, that’s how it was from the episodes plus novelization
Another thing is that during capaldi's last episode the doctor he is with states that it was going to be his first regeneration
Or maybe it's empty and retarded idiocy because forget doing something good, you have to belittle everyone that follows your "show". How are the ratings? Dumpster fire level? What an astonishing ability to gauge reality.
The second doctor is from a different time line. Jack told the companions that something was sent back in time (by the cyberman?) that changed the past creating a new version of the doctor.
The whole episode was just 50 minutes of me losing my mind 🤯 Jack... the new Doctor... the fact that it was filmed in my home town...
(I stumbled across the filming of this episode at the cathedral back in the summer and watched them film the knitting needle scene. Closest I’ll ever get to being on national TV 😂😂)
I think I can forgive Chibbers all his sins for bringing back Jack, though!!
I'm glad he did, they've worked together before on torchwood
We’ve gone from “The Dalek Invasion of Earth” to “The Judoon Invasion of Westgate Street”
@@rojh9351 Can't always have high stakes, they stop meaning anything after a while.
theory: alternate doctor, from an alternate timeline. like the Valeyard from the classic. a reality in which Galifrey was not destroyed. a reality where the War Doctor chose not to use the Moment, and then regenerated into someone else than Chris Eccleston.
Should read this before i spent 10 mins writing my reply ... *liked*
Or maybe this Doctor is the natural regeneration of Paul McGann in that timeline, as there’s no time war he’d have no need to choose to regenerate into the war Doctor so she child fit in there
The timeline would have to split way before the war doctor if ruth cant recognize a sonic
A parallel Doctor makes the most sense to me since the Doctor Who instagram account has called her The Doctor but apparently Chris himself has said that she is genuinely the Doctor and not a parallel one but I only heard that from one UA-camr (who was reading from an article though) and cannot find his statement elsewhere (although prior to writing this I've only searched on Twitter). Anyway I can't see why the BBC would want to spoil the rest of the series like that so I'm going with parallel Doctor for now, which would still make her the Doctor and not what the DW instagram said false.
Chibnall says its the real Doctor.
Loved it. Time for a meaty confusing story arc...
I’m going with parallel universe doctor. Possibly the parallel universe Hartnell...
And Jack!! Huzzah!! Finally!!
Remember in the Brain of Morbius, during the Doctor's mental fight, we saw many more "previous Doctors"
Paul Wagner no. They were future incarnations. They just didn’t have any castings for future doctors, obviously so got a bunch of extras
@@MrGreaves I thought they were morbius regenerations.
that was probably done cause if 4 left they would might have to end the show so why not have the doctor die, but the show kept going so that is now not cannon or just like some weird shit that was added in I would say the other but he doesn't really exist in actual who
@@MrGreaves You're wrong, the producer specifically said they were implied to be unseen previous regenerations before Hartnell's Doctor. That was the intention, but it wasn't necessarily canon as they only an implication and not an outright retcon.
Gare previous incarnations would be really dumb though. None of them would be able to travel through time as Hartnell stole the TARDIS
The timelords are dead, properly this time, no one to step in when people interfere with time. Let's presume that the timelords can still protect time when inside the pocket universe.
Time is swirling (falling apart) around the doctor.
This doctor is a doctor that shouldn't have existed and only does because the timelines are not protected as they once were.
This is what doctor who is about. The excitement is when the past is not fixed. The cannon is flexible which Mordern story' tellers are allowed to change. And the fun, that the point of doctor who
a Doctor from another dimension would probably be a better outcome.
Chibnall already said it wasn't a parallel universe.
I stick with the chameleon arch malfunction theory.
In my initial research, the control panel is a near identical copy of the first doctor’s control panel. Implying that the TARDIS is the first doctor’s TARDIS.
I wish I could write my theory:
Martin’s Doctor is the Timeless Child. Something was done that caused her to erase her own memory.
At the end of this season, she will sacrifice herself to regenerate into the First Doctor, steal the Tardis and escape Gallifrey - plot twist - as it is about to be destroyed by The Master. Saving Susan in the process. Wherein we finally meet Susan in the modern era.
Chad Wilson please no
Prof. Evil Pictures why no? A pre-Hartnell Doctor is really the only explanation, since Chibnall confirmed its not a parallel universe Doctor. I think this would be an interesting way to loop a new version in without totally destroying previous lore
Chad Wilson, yes but she has the police box, but she does not know of the sonic, therefore she can not be before 1 but not after 2, so she can not be the doctor.
I've heard rumors of them trying to retcon the entire Canon of Doctor Who. You're not the only one that's worried.
Could she be the Valeyard? Would be the right era with Jodie being the 13th Doctor.
I thought this too and said it out loud to the utterly lost look of my better half.
No that would be a twist.
uh actually jodie is the 15th doctor thanks
Don't try to take it back shes indeed the 13th the unlucky,evil,feared,and manipulative doc the universe loathed.
@@RobTFilms I think jodie is the 2nd doctor now actually?
The ship Jack's on interior remains me of the past Doctor's TARDIS.
Could he have stolen a TARDIS like the doctor had?
I'm definitely concerned with Chibnall trying to change the whole lore of doctor who in order to make the series seem like a step-up from series 11, but putting all that aside for now, it was still a pretty good episode. And also I just loved all of the callbacks that they made which old fans can enjoy without them being a major plot point, like them mentioning the chameleon arch and the nano-genes, and even just referencing Tenant's "Judoon platoon on the moon" line. Also I love the thought of Jodie Whittaker's Doctor finally getting some kind of individuality, with her character almost seeming to put up a bit of a false persona or just be in denial of her past around her companions, being all cheery when she's around them but when she's by herself showing how she really feels alone. Maybe this is just me but hey it would at least somewhat explain her lack of character development in season 11 before her past started catching up with her 😋 thanks for readingg
13:50
Actually we didn’t see a transaction between the Second and Third Doctor, the end of one story we see Second going out the door so to speak and the next season we see Third come in, but given context clues in those stories, it is unlikely their was another in between them. I’m hoping for the Parallel Universe Theory to be true.
From Hartnell to Smith, he had the maximum amount of faces. So it is impossible for it to be a past doctor
I’m hoping for a parallel universe, imagine an army of doctors from hundred of parallel universes all join together to stop a threat
This is Arrow-verse post Crisis Dr just like the three Superman's on Earth Prime.
Comic king 2005 this isn’t the MCU... that would be dreadful
Harvey Stoner, I didn’t mean all off them meeting and showing there faces, maybe just a few unknown tardises flying around or something like that. I misspoke when saying hundreds because that just wouldn’t be good and knowing Chipnell it would be done very badly.
Crisis On Infinite Gallifrey’s
"I thought I had it bad when there was only one of him. Now there's all twelve"
"No sir! All THIRTEEN!"
Actually gat is named specifically as being galifreyan, not a time Lord.
When the Doctor said about showing her what she saw of Gallifrey she did mention 'Time Lord to Time Lord' so Gat is a Time Lord.
@@springer1786 was about to say thanks 🤣
@@springer1786 time lord and gallifreyan are the same thing
@@iCore7Gaming no they're not! A Timelord is a gallifreyan that's received the rassilon imprimature (the two doctors) which gives them regeneration etc...
@@iCore7Gaming No they're not. A Time Lord is a Gallifreyian but a Gallifreyian isn't necessarily a Time Lord. They have to go to the academy to graduate as a Time Lord.
It felt like the rise of Skywalker - just chucking a bunch of garbage out there to see what sticks
Its an Arrow-verse crossover. Black Dr is from a Crisis Earth.
Hartnell stole a TARDIS which we have seen was a default cylinder in maintenance. It became a police phone box in November 1963 in the scrap yard. The chamelion circuit then stuck ever since. Only a parallel Earth with the same history could account for this.
The lens flares were over the top in Jack's ship it's ridiculous.
Hydra Tower Different director apparently. His shots were filmed during Sept/October 2019 while the rest of the episode was filmed during the summer.
Honestly, Jack would have pointless lens flares for show.
Those Lens Flares are Gay Space Man Space Glitter Bombs
As lovely as John is, he has grown a few days older since his last appearance - lens flares obstruct the view a bit... ^_~ Also: yes, Jack would vote for them!
Lens flares where just as bad in Ruth's TARDIS scene's as well.
AWESOME UNIVERSE BUILDING: Ruth is a future regeneration of 10th metacrisis
MOST LIKELY: Ruth is the next doctor after Withaker, she does not remember because of the multidoctor encounter.
What if she's the Rani, what if she's trying to pull something over the doctor's eyes.
Why now tho
That's what I though too, she could be working with the master again, or it could be like the Christmas episode but instead of the doctors memories, the cybermen could have used her dna like in the doctors daughter
@@kevinclark495 Or she could be a more recent incarnation of Jenny (the doctor's daughter). I remember the doctor said she is pretty much the same as him in terms of regeneration. If it is her, maybe she could be looking for Tennant's incarnation but (like jack) didn't expect him to eventually become a female too.
It all makes perfect sense, except for every single aspect of this theory such as why they have the exact same bio scan, or why the other time lord was going after the Doctor (who she recognises - just not our Doctor), or what sort of time lord with a medal of valour would fall in love with a villain like the Rani and agree to protect them, or why she would even be trying to pretend to be the Doctor in the first place when the exact nature of their relation to each other would automatically make the Doctor investigate further.
So aside from all of that... yep, perfect plan.
Look at trial of a timelord maybe the valeyard
Remember rule one of the doctor:
The doctor lies
Parallel Doctor from a parallel universe. Calling it now.
Yep
It's not, they confirmed she is part of our Doctor's timeline
I hope.
I'm not a lore expert but I figure she is the Valeyard. He was technically the Doctor and worked directly for the ruling TIme Lords, which is why when he left he was considered a fugitive. Plus we last heard about him during the McGann era, 1999, when the Valeyard believed he was the real Doctor.
I am not making any judgements or assumptions until the end of the season. I’m just enjoying the Journey!
0reaver01 ahh your what I call the other white meat. Racist and unoriginal. Think about this; if the doctor was real, do you think the doctor would want you travailing with them with your attitude? If you stop being a whovin then the world is just a brighter place for the rest of us.
@@evildeed90s Get a life.
If the Ruth's line was: 'Let me take it from the top. Hello... Sweetie!' it could be much much better
How can it be pre harnell when his TARDIS was the first police box design?
Saptarshi Hoare yeah especially seeing as the chameleon circuit got stuck in 1963 in the first episode because Ian and Barbara broke it
Its possibly just a concidence.... but what messes up is the first regeneration cycle number. If she was the doctor's past self.
This series is actually now a must watch. Probably the only one your What-Blank company has tbh.
There was a gray area between the second doctor and third doctor, we didn't see the full regeneration, he was Patrick Troughton at the end of the episode and Pertwee at the beginning of the next one
Yes but didn't the doctor use up all 12 regens. How could this be between 2-3. If she was between 2-3 then the doctor had 13 regens and 14 lives
@@SomeOneBrokeMe They could take the dubious route of claiming that when 10 used regeneration energy to heal himself but not change form in The Stolen Earth that it didn't count as a Regeneration. I agree it would be daft but there is a bit of ambiguity there.
@@Weneedparachutes True. Im sure 11 spoke about 10 regenerating into himself counted as a real regeneration tho.
SomeOneBrokeMe yes that was in 11s regeneration to 12
@@SomeOneBrokeMe yes he did in time of the doctor
I used my genius mind and figured it out. lol Ruth said she was from the Dr's past, so when the 8th doctor ended up on Karn and one of sisters from the sisterhood gave the potion to change him into the war doctor, after the war was not needed anymore, the part that was the 8th doctor regenerated into the 9th doctor and the other part that was the war doctor regenerated into Ruth. Probably the 9th doctor had no idea of Ruth and they went off in their separate ways !
Something The Master said in episode 1 "everything that you think you know is a lie". Think keeps coming to mind.
OUTATIMEgaming I agree since wasn’t missy actually murdered by the past master who said she couldn’t regenerate?
'Fugitive of the Judoon' is the best episode of the 13th Doctor by far - hopefully they rest of the episodes are just as good.
Great to see Capt Jack, another doctor and the Judoon - and the story was good.
Credits introduced her as The Doctor, unless they’re meta tricking us
Is it Clara? We know She now has the power to regenerate too. Thanks Daleks. XD
The WindyREDPanda i really hope not 😭 I wouldn’t like to think she’d claim Doc’s identity like that
@@achyloo8407 she's done that before.
And 12th called her the Doctor of Lies. XD Love 12th's Sarcasm and Sass.
She's a different Doctor from an alternate universe (timeline). The timelines (universes) are bleeding into each other, focusing on "our" The Doctor.
Gat isn’t a Time Lord, she’s Galifreyan. There’s a difference
Though the doctor did say "timelord to timelord" when she shared her memory
I have worries about possible retcons to all this (flashback to Morbius' Doctors theories), but tbh, I'm loving the bold new direction. It was that much needed push. Moffat tried many times to frighten us by shaking that safe ground of "the Doctor has to stay alive", but I feel Chibnall pulled of what might scare us more - the lore/what we think we know - he just has to pull those strings gently and your heart immediately sinks. And I think that's a great direction imo, possibly one of the best if there's a good catch behind it (and there's still a good margin for it).
Man I was so excited about this episode. You made me so depressed about it now. 😭🤣🤷♀️ I didn’t think about your points until I saw this, but I guess this could fail spectacularly.
I was actually afraid to watch this video cause I really liked the episode. And I still do! I don't care about his worries... like dude just enjoy the moment. Why worry about a fictional future that can always be fixed with some clever writing?! Gosh!
I loved this episode so much. I don't even mind if the Ruth Doctor is Pre-Hartnell. I'll accept that.
My theory:
The master said that gallifrey lied to them
What if the gallifreyians took the doctors memory of that regeneration and gave the doctor an extra regeneration to cover it up, remember the gallifreyians didn't exactly like the doctor. The doctor must of done something.
Idk what do you think just a theory
For what it's worth, I loved Jo's Doctor. I can't wait to see more of her! And I certainly don't think there's any reason to panic.
It seems extremely likely to me that this is simply a hidden Doctor between Troughton and Pertwee, forced to work for the CIA and erased from Pertwee's memory when he was sent to Earth. It explains her martial prowess, her escape from a "job you can't quit," her pursuit by Gallifreyan officials, and her ultimate disappearance. Like many secret agents, her existence was scrubbed from all records.
We know that Troughton was sent on missions after his initial disappearance, as seen in his later crossovers ("Season 6b"). We can guess that he later regenerated either by accident or by choice, escaped to Earth, and hid as Ruth. She will later be caught by Gallifreyan officials and subjected to memory tampering, leading to Pertwee's adventures with UNIT, aware of his loss of knowledge pertaining to time travel but not of his previous identity.
The Time Lords may even have granted him an extra regeneration, explaining Matt Smith seeing the end of his cycle (or maybe it just didn't count when Tennant cheated and changed into himself). It all fits together fairly neatly, and all it means is that, like the War Doctor, there's another incarnation outside of the numbering scheme, which works brilliantly for me!
Didn't the Master once land his Tardis in the Doctors Tardis, and wasn't that also a Police Box? So maybe this new doctor is the master.
yes he did and if im correct it was one inside another inside another inside another so on and so forth and if my memory serves me correct for each tardis they interred the light got dimmer the episode was logopolis
Logopolis? Britain looked very cold in that episode, and the master was wielding his tissue matter eliminator to great effect
True ish. Had already gone downhill by then with companions almost as pointless as the current lot.
Here's my take. The new Doctor is a clone of The Doctor we know from way back when, and The Master we met in Spyfall is also a clone of The Master proper (Missy.) Hense why he feels betrayed, he knows he's not 'real' and was made as a tool of Gallifrey. He finds out and goes ballistic destroying them for what they have done.
If she's a clone why does she not look like 13 or a previous incarnation? Well as far as I can see regeneration happens differently for our Doctor and the New Doctor because of the circumstances of their lives and deaths (12 looking like that Roman dude proves this.) So they are both The Doctor, it doesn't mess with canon and can contribute to the series arc.
What do we think?
Jack Pearson I think this is exactly what is gonna happen
Doctor Who the clone wars 😎
Old audiences: doctor who isn’t the same. It’s rubbish. They don’t do anything interesting or have any good storylines.
Current doctor who: Hold my Screwdriver
Max Glaysher still waiting lol
Not correct Max. Most of my fan friends loved it.
Sorry the numbers say no and they don't care about your feelings
dfarmbrough I meant the ones that were complaining for the sake of complaining
LOL you can't be serious!
According to Chris Chibnall, she is a real doctor, not from a parallel universe or any other tricks. I personally now think she is the next doctor, and all of this with Jodie's doctor is going to be an ongoing thing between now and when she regenerates (probably in series 13).
Somehow, because of the timeless child, the timelords have reset the doctor's life by wiping her memory. OR Ruth's doctor or Jodie's doctor could be the individual who fixes Gallifrey and she sacrifices herself and her memories to fix it.
So somehow, the doctor starts again...
Chibnal: ''This isn't even my final form!''
👌🏾👌🏾👌🏾
Let’s hope not 😂. Only good episode he’s produced
Chibnal has to go, I'll give the actors a pass. They can only work with what they're given. This series was poorly written & executed.
jeck jeck remind me what this quote is from?
@@prof.evilpictures8696
Dragon ball ...if I remember correctly.
Ruth is the timeless child and is thus every Timelord all at once as all Timelords came from her, hence why she registers as the Doctor, she'd also register as the Master if he was to test her. So she's an arc character which is fine. We also didn't need the "We don't care who you were, we don't care who you might be, we care about you now!" Line which was obviously aimed at the fanbase who still don't see the point in a female Doctor. Also not accepting anything set pre Hartnell it'd just be lazy writing. End of.
So the Judoon beam up the Tardis when Ruth gets her memories back but they never beamed up the main Tardis?
The first episode with Jodie I’ve quite enjoyed.Half decent script and writing,the return of Captain Jack,a decent story and no preaching!Not brilliant but it’s a start.Keep it up!
We didn’t actually see Troughton regenerate into Pertwee. Maybe Ruth is in between them.
I wrote Gatt not Hattie.
That is a theory that was out there straight away, it is possible because of ther clothing, very similar to John Pertwee's Doctor, and no knowledge of the sonic yet. The only problem with it is, that when Matt Smith's generation was supposed to be the last (12th, because the War Doctor was slipped in between McGann and Ecclestone) so it messes with that.
@Henry Andrews another possibility, but I couldn't imagine the timelords granting another regeneration when they were punishing the Doctor, not a great punishment/deterrent is it. Still, it's a way out of the crap the writers seem to have dug themselves 🤣
@Henry Andrews possible, I'm still not happy that it seems they're messing with the known timeline of the Doctor, if things pan out that she is part of our Doctors timeline. It wasn't broken, so no need to fix it.
@Henry Andrews yeh, but, you, me and a few million other who fans will know it didn't happen like that, I'm old enough to just remember Jon Pertwee, and my fondest memories are of Tom Baker, then my eldest (20 now) started watching Doctor Who at Ecclestone, but I showed him the Movie (as I had it) so he saw a few Doctors, my youngest however (6 now), is a massive Who fan, made me get all the old ones, so he could watch all the Doctors, he likes Tom Baker and Tennant the best, like I do, my wife liked Smith, I wasn't a big fan, he grew on me a bit after the second time watching him, but I really quite liked Capaldi too, he played a good mixture of all the older Doctors, I'm not a fan of Whitaker, and it's nothing to do with her being a woman, although that is a bit annoying (with the yeh I had an upgrade 🤦♂️) it's all the annoying words she uses like "Fam" OMFG that annoys the shit out of me, stop it, you're not an annoying teenager, you're thousands of years old, not cool 😠
We took my youngest to the Doctor Who thing they did at the Space Centre on Sunday, we saw and got a photo with Paul McGann, such a nice bloke, he was made up that my youngest was a massive Who fan, and had his figure with him 🤣
From this weeks episode did you notice that Ruth’s windows on her flat were TARDIS shaped and the mirror was a hexagon like the controls are in the TARDIS!! Bet you didn’t
totally agree with some comments how can it be pre hartnell with a police box
Indeed. It can only be from a parallel universe where a female 'Hartnell' became a black female 'Trouton'.
Thats so dumb
@@michaelwhitmire9015 what is the whole can't be a past doctor cause of the tardis is true a tt capsule (tardises actual name) don't look like that
Can't wait to see how all of this will end, either the Doctor has ended up in a alternate universe by mistake (but still able to get to the Gallifrey pocket universe) or something is going wrong with the timeline similar to the cracks in time from series 5 or the Great Intelligence entering the time stream from series 7, Earth is destroyed and becomes Orphan 55 and the "Ruth" Doctor existing. At this point i'm not expecting the Timeless Child story to get finished till series 13 with the new Lone Cyberman story.
I'm convinced that it was a cameo from Jack and we'll not see him again this series, or the next, in fact, quite some time. Maybe for the 60th?
It wouldn't surprise me if we never see or hear from him again. To me, it seems the Beeb knows Who is starting to sink/stink, and they just did it to try and get the old fans back.
Why didn't they try resurrecting Torchwood, or for that matter, The Sarah Jane Adventures (assuming Chumpnall hasn't killed off all the Bannerman Road Gang, like he did with UNIT and Torchwood)?
There's no way Jack isn't coming back for the finale or something.
We'll see but don't be surprised if he doesn't show up again. To me, it just wafts as a ratings chaser too much.
They are just trying to appeal to fans of when the show was actually good (the judoon, jack etc). Is only so long you can ride on your past successes though
@@mekonta It's looking unlikely that he'll show up again.
In the future, the doctor is captured by the lone cyberman. The she is cloned and locked away or killed. The clone takes the TARDIS. The clone doesn't know the doctor's past and believes to be the doctor. Also, the clone is evil. That is why she is hunted.
I hear the thing about it being an alternate Doctor a lot, but when you look at the history of the Time Lords, they did things to ensure that there was just one of them in existence. There aren't multiple realities with multiple Doctors, there's just one Gallifrey.
As for it being a trick, you said yourself that Fugitive Doctor didn't know the identity of the Doctor when she introduced herself. So..
Idk man :/
Chibnall maybe could have worked it in that she was a timeless child who discovered something in the vortex that allowed for time lords as we know them to happen, but they're apparently very much a thing already in this episode, yet they're trying to recapture her... Just.. what?
I pray Chibnall knows all this, especially since he seems to reference Old Who a lot and hopefully has knowledge of basic continuity like this. But there's a huge chance this could go off the rails very quickly.
Not exactly. They didn't go traipsing through other realities killing off the people who would one day become Time Lords. They simpy made sure it was impossible to travel between different realities. Much easier to lock the door.
It's hard to know what Chibnall is thinking. He likes to reference old Who (a lot of references to The Three Doctors in the first two episodes, which may be a clue), but he's also shown a willingness to ignore canon. (Or at least what the fans consider to be canon).
@@maisiesummers42 I think we're on different pages here with that first paragraph, but can you explain more by what you mean? Who was they, and when were they killing time lords? If you mean the Time Lords didn't kill all other versions of themselves, well I mean of course not lol, that's not how the history goes at all. They made Gallifrey a sort of conflux of time itself, so there only exists one version of it and its people. @Certifiably Ingame does a much better job at explaining it than I ever could in a comment, but it's out there if you're interested. Chibnall doesn't seem to be....
@@Rocksteady72a The timelords time locked Gallifrey so you can never travel to its past or its future. When you go to Gallifrey it is always now. This way time could not be used against them to undo the timelords deeds.
deep explanation here: my theory is that ruth's doctor was before Willaim, and STOLE a tardis (a crime punishable by death ( hence why Judoon are after her, along with the High Council maybe?)), she then hid in the 1960's where the tardis came down as a police box and the chameleon circuit got stuck, (i'll come back to this) Gat then caught up with her, so she hid in 1999 and used the chameleon skin on her hiding herself as a normal human, then Fugitive of the judoon took place, once 'the doctor' left the episode, she went back to Gallefry where the tardis was put in the repair shop (due to all the mud), while that was happening, Ruth's mind was wiped and a forced regeneration took place (there version of a slap on the wrist? given it was a first offence?), changing her into Williams doctor, who then stole the same tardis ( now restored to the basic model) and once again landed in 1960's, given that the tardis wasn't fully repaired at the time, when he landed, the chameleon circuit became dis-lodged, effectivly trapping the tardis as a 1960's police box hence why we constantly hear the doctor say they like it then doctor who as we know it ( from 50+ years ago to today) took place, and he eventually ran into Susan? i think her name was? i'm not sure but, that's my theory of the whole thing anyway
My guess is that this is actually the doctor's third regeneration cycle, and the timelords did something to Hartnell's doctor that made him completely forget the first cycle and the memories are slowly starting to come back
I'd be okay with this idea... if not for the Tardis-as-Police-Box. Too much of a coincidence that both Regeneration Cycles led to the Tardis being stuck as a Police Box.
@@mritty115 Actually it would be explained with the Tardis REALLY liking the exterior aspect of the Police Box, having already lived in that exterior for some time during the Earth-cover-years of Ruth's Doctor. It's a chameleon circuit fault in the meaning that the Tardis itself does not want the chameleon circuit to work anymore. And the thing Gat was searching the Doctor for is basically what escalated with the high council of Gallifrey erasing the memory and resetting the regeneration cycles of the timelords/ladies involved in the event.
I think it should be pretty obvious that Jack's warning wasn't given in a vacuum, plot wise. Doctor Ruth I think will be the thing he was warning them about, the whatever they sent back in time.
Actually - we HAVEN’T seen all the regenerations. It’s commonly accepted amongst whovians that there’s a gap between Troughton’s end in The War Games and Pertwee’s exile in Spearhead from Space
Here are the reasons I think this is going towards her being the first Doctor, firstly, she referred to the Tardis as her ship, something only Hartnell did and also she didn't recognise the sonic screwdriver, something Troughton invented. I concede that the Tardis wasn't a police box before, but I cant help but wonder if it was an oversight to help with the reveal, aside from the police box there's no other recognisably Doctor thing about this new Doctor. Plus it would give away the twist if I am right
You’re concerns are definitely justified I really hope this is a fake out because otherwise it is a bit of an unnecessary retcon which makes the character uninteresting.
Agree. I don't want Ruth to be pre Hartnell, that would be so f'd up. But there is just one little thing that Rich got wrong. We never did see Troughton turn into Pertwee, although he is wearing Troughtons clothes when he opens the doors. Although this messes with what we know about regeration. Another thing no-one seems to have thought of is, whatever happened to Susan? The last time we seen her (TV wise) that we know of was in The Five Doctors. If my memory is correct, at the beginning of the time war ALL Timelords were called back to Gallifrey.
Well, you certainly wouldn't want to insult a fictional character!
LRE King what?
Personally, I think that Martin's Doctor is going to end up being a pre-Hartnell Doctor. BUT my theory on where she could fit in makes more sense for me: so basically I think that she is the third Doctor, because when Troughton is captured by the Time Lords and sentenced into exile and forced to regenerate, we do not directly see the regeneration itself, we assume that's what happened but Troughton's last scene does not involve a direct Troughton-Pertwee regeneration. So what I am suggesting that Troughton actually regenerated into Martin first, escaped the Time Lords soon afterwards (most likely with the help of Lee Clayton who it is suggested is also a Time Lord like Gat), the turned herself human and hid on Earth for 19 years until she met Whittaker and the Time Lords hired Gat and the Judoon to recapture Martin. Then after the events of this episode, her cover is blown and the Time Lords are able to capture her and force her to regenerate into Pertwee and then wiped the Doctor's memory probably to maintain the impression of them still being all powerful.
Again this version of the Doctor is most likely a pre-Hartnell version somehow, the timeless child itself somehow, or some kind of parallel. But personally I think that my theory works and makes sense to me.
I think personally this episode is the only good episode in series 12
Also Ruths Doctor was really good
Actually proves that the err. Less than stellar performance of JW as doctor isn't about the actors gender but something else
@@quantummuffin1895 I know it wasn't as good as the first part but why spyfall part 2 "2/10"
One Nerd Spyfall was brilliant too and Nikola Tesla was a good historical episode. Definitely the best so far though.
Quantummuffin I didn’t like any of those except the Nichola Tesla one spyfal 1 and 2 were bad and orphan 55 was terrible
We're also still waiting for SOMEONE sets canon into clarity by acknowledging that Hurt is the 9th Doctor, Tennant was 11 & 12, and that Jodie is now 15th. Smith calling himself the last of "thirteen silly Doctors" is apparently too much for most of the fans to handle and it's not like the Beeb and their marketing department would ever want to spend time and money having to relabel the packaging on all their kit.