How do Time-Turners Work? | Harry Potter Film Theory
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- Опубліковано 23 бер 2022
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Today Ben dives into the Wizarding World of Harry Potter try and answer an age old question: How do Time-Turners work?
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Edited by :: Riley Murtagh
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I always had the idea that when you're petrified you don't age, so Hermione lost a good portion of her year in the second book, and she gained it all back with her time traveling in the third XD
But she lost months in second year and gained only a week at the end of third year.
@@DhanushV2206 Yeah I never actually sat down to do the math before because I didn't feel like it. I just had the idea and assumed that solved the potential aging issue lol
@@DhanushV2206 but getting to class multiple times at the same time adds up so it might end up matching a month
@@tonylozano1728 But she was doing this for multiple classes throughout the day, as well. Doesn’t she end up taking _three_ classes at a time at one point?
Yeah, no. I’m on board with this one.
@@DhanushV2206
How do you figure that? According to my math, she ages about 3 weeks at least
I feel like most of this video is just Ben describing exactly why no-one liked The Cursed Child.
Thank god it’s just a screen(play)
Literally got a Wizarding Trunk box just so I could get a book cover to camouflage my copy of Cursed Child as a magical textbook 😂
@@amberbanuelos7053 Genius. XD
I don’t know what this means. And I don’t want to know😂
@@carterneis8469 the 8th harry potter book? yeah it was pretty bad looooool
Theory: What if the sand in the time turner is actually phoenix ashes. A phoenix being reborn and reliving its life just like how someone would relive the past using a time turner.
This is what I was thinking when they mentioned the Hummingbird reliving it's life over and over again. Why is this a bird, just like a Phoenix?
Maybe it's actually a baby Phoenix and not a hummingbird, and it was "born like this" deformed in a way, and the Ministry is taking advantage of the situation.
Or maybe some inspired Wizard from ages past was trying to recreate a Phoenix, but with a Hummingbird. Maybe it was his pet? Maybe he was just inventive?
Either way, seems thematically linked.
That’s an awesome theory.
That would be overpowering phoenixes, most immortals should never be able to time travel
Oh I like this
That seems like too loose a connection.
There's a book called "the time traveler's guide to time travel" it treats various theories on how time travel works as different forms of travel depending on how it was achieved. As well as tips to identify your type of time travel and avoid causing paradoxes. It's a pretty informative read. The time turner seems to work off of time linearity, where the fact that you time traveled was always true, so your actions while doing so will naturally result in the timeline that enabled you to time travel. Basically a rigid and unchanging timeline that paradoxes cannot occur in no matter how hard you try.
Thanks for the recommendation! Definitely going to check it out
Cool! I remember reading a scifi short story many years ago that had another theory of time travel that I've never seen anywhere else. In the story, they called it the "Pearl Necklace Theory of Time Travel". The idea is that time is like a pearl necklace - each moment in time is a single pearl. If you travel in time, and remove or alter any pearl, nothing happens to any of the other pearls. They're all still there. Thus, no paradoxes can occur. If you go back in time and kill George Washington as a child, and then come back to the present, nothing will have changed - the history books will all be the same, containing all the historical facts of the life and accomplishments of George Washington that we all know.
"Bad things happen to wizards who time travel.. i think you die if you see yourself in the past or something messed up.
@@PhilBagels that sounds kinda like quantum foam theory. You're not so much time traveling as traveling between universes who's quantum state reflects a specific time or place. I'm pretty sure Rick and Morty work on quantum foam
It reminds me of a movie (I don't remember the title) where the main character invented a time machine to save his wife but no matter how much he tried she always died at the same time (just from different reasons). He then decided to travel to the future and asked an infinite wisdom AI why that happens.
And the answer was "Because its you wife's death that caused you to create the time machine. If she didn't die, then you would not make the time machine and could not save her".
So it was a self correcting timeline that could never lead to a paradox..
Do magical artifacts such as Time-Turner, Pensieve, Cloak of Invisibility, Resurrection Stone, and Philosopher's Stone work for Muggles? What would a Muggle see inside the Mirror of Erised? What would happen to a Muggle who crosses the Veil?
This would make for a good video.
I think they would work because the bitting doorknobs, shrinking keys the opal necklace worked
@@s-wo8781 I hope so as well!
@@lego_films6971 Katie was a witch
@@itsnotajokeitsahazard8700 the opal necklace killed 19 muggles before katie was cursed
My theory regarding passing all the OWLS is that anyone can take the exam, even if you haven’t taken the class. It’s recommended, but not required. Kind of like how someone could take an AP test without having taken the AP class. So Percy (and Bill!) could have passed all 12 OWLS with only taking a reasonable amount of classes.
i feel like Hermione would've easily aced the Muggle Studies (but probably not Divination) OWL if she had taken it at the end of her 5th year despite not taking the class beyond PoA!
All it takes to get a C in 4 out of 6 irish high school classes is reading a source textbook front to back a night before so depending on the difficulty and commitment level you could actually pass 12 OWLs, yeah
You know who else passed 12 OWLs? Barty Crouch Jr... which blows my mind a little, as he ended up in Azkaban two years later.
Theory not correct. Also, I don't know where you're from but you can't take an AP exam without the class where I live. Again, that could be different in other locations.
You can take AP exams without the class where I'm from, it just isn't set up and paid for by the school. So it's possible, if you know it is possible and can set it up.
I imagine the OWLs are similar. After all, to liaise with muggles you need and OWL in Muggle Studies, a class most muggleborns wouldn't take. If you couldn't take the OWL without taking the class most people raised as muggles wouldn't be able to liaise with them because they wouldn't be qualified (possible). However, if you can take the exam regardless the office might be set up to assume all muggleborns will do that, but not necessarily inform them of the steps they need to take. After all, everyone knows that you can take the OWL without taking the class, why would they need to tell them?
Hermione in books: *destroys the rest of the time turners*
Hermione in Cursed Child: “You know, Harry, I actually have *another* time turner
Wait... correct me if I'm wrong... but wasn't the time turner from that book like a prototype confiscated from someone? It's not like one was saved from the Department of Mysteries. She gained possession of it.
@@terrywest111 And also one that did work for any amount of hours going back. Not a maximum of 5.
The Cursed Child is just a play (for fun) xP
Why did she destroy them
@@nikicarrie4071 because it was a threat to wizardkind
No I like that the cloak was made by Death himself. Just for the thought that there is now a bit of his leg popping out that isn't covered anymore from his missing piece.
New theory: "Can people around you see the death's ankle when you are dying."
There’s a mini death to take attention away from his ankle- he doesn’t want to keep explaining it to EVERY soul.
@@hubertnnn maybe it's only visible to the ones that have been under the cloak.
@@hubertnnn if thestrals were discovered during the lives of the peverell brothers you may have a good point. Imagine all these people start “seeing death” because he’s got a little flap of his cloak missing after giving it away
@@jar-jarsforceghost1352 Do you only see thestrals when you see a person die? What about a pet?
Perhaps a trivial point, but I want to clarify something about how much Hermione aged as a result of her extra classes. I’ll apologize in advance for thinking too much about this.
First, the Hogwarts calendar is about 39 weeks instead of 36. Being from the UK, J.K. Rowling would most likely set the calendar to be similar to British schools, and a 39 week academic year is pretty typical. Even more convincingly, we can count up the weeks. We know the students take the train at the start of September and the year concludes with the exams at the end of June. If you count them up, this comes to about 43 weeks with a small amount of variability based on the exact year. If we subtract the breaks for Christmas and Easter, we get 39 again. That said, 39 weeks seems like a better approximation than 36, so she may have aged more than estimated in the video.
Second, we know that Hermione drops divination, meaning that she goes from needing 5 extra hours to 4 at a certain point. The hard part is figuring out when she drops the class. The book is rarely specific about dates, so the next bit is my own guesswork, but she may have aged less than originally thought.
The final straw for Hermione comes in chapter 15. The event preceding her storming out of divination was a letter from Hagrid informing them that Buckbeak lost and was going to be executed. I have been able to find two dates for this hearing. The wiki says that it took place on April 20th, while other sources indicate that it was rescheduled to February 11th. I am not sure if there is a reason for this inconsistency I have found online. If someone wants to check, I would be curious to know a reference from the book. In any case, I will use a lower bound and upper bound. This means that she missed as many as 16 weeks of divination (not forgetting to subtract the two for Easter holiday) or as few as 9. If I may utilize a bit of the math budget, that means she aged between 179 and 186 hours depending on when exactly she dropped the class from her schedule. Add on the last three hours with Harry to save Buckbeak and Sirius and we come out somewhere between 7.58 and 7.875 days older.
Tl;dr Hogwarts has longer academic years so more aging, but she dropped divination partly through the year so less aging. These two offset to some degree and the number in the video falls neatly into the calculated range anyway. Hermione is not far off from being a full 8 days older due to her time travel.
Are you trying to bankrupt the Carlin Bros. using up all of their maths budget?
@@matthewpatrick7263 probably, though I think they already ran out of math budget
The date around April should be the more accurate one as Trelawney's first day prediction said that one of their number would leave forever around Easter and everyone reacted to Hermione leaving as that prediction being proven true
Did she never use it for homework at all?
@@weckar I find that unlikely, but there’s no way we can know and any additional calculation from homework/study/sleep would be a guess. I thought it would be better to leave it out entirely.
Did anyone else notice baby yoda's eyes change at 15:04? Kinda scared me for a second then I laughed
Yes! 🤣
Came looking for this comment!
Yes
oh good i’m not the only one😂
I was literally at that point in the video when I read this comment. Looked up to see the green eyes, next second they were gone. Timely.
She actually may have aged by more than just a week because she might have used the time turner at other times than just to go to her classes. She would've had more homework, so she could've used the time turner to have extra time to do that. Also since she was spending more than the usual amount of time awake during the day she would've been way more tired than everyone else and could've used it to get an extra hour of sleep at night. Yes technically she was supposed to use it 'only for her classes' but it would've been pretty much impossible to take those classes without any extra time for homework and/or extra sleep
I'm fairly certain that she did use it for doing homework. also, the calculation assumes that all classes last one hour. Given the number of classes that are taken each day, and that 2 hours are reserved for each final, the extra time she aged, if she ages for the extra hours she experiences, could easily add another week or two to what this video calculates.
This is funny because right after this video you can click on his Percy video and he says this about Hermione and I guess he just forgot about it in this one.
I refuse to believe that she didnt age a year or 2 by the end of the year
Near the end of the term she was often exausted and overworked. I took that to mean that she didn't use the time turner to get extra sleep although she probably should have, because she took the "only for classes rule" to seriously and would rather neglect her health than breaking the rules. It fits to her character. She probably even slept less to find time to do the extra homework.
She would not have but I believe that is why Percy seems so much older. He would have used it for class, study, sleep, and any thing else he thought applied. Like re taking test or redoing homework.
This theory has been used in fanfictions for years, and it's really neat to see the Carlin brothers go down this rabbit hole :)
Rabit hat 🤣🤣
Was it the white rabbit from Alice in Wonderland?
Yes I was pretty confident that Hermione aged. There's an article on Pottermore where they discuss about the first attempt to time travel by an Unspeakable. She traveled like 200 years into the past or something and when she came back, had to be immediately taken to the hospital. They later realized that she died because she aged those 200 years she missed. Almost like as if she would have lived through them. I'm surprised you guys didn't mention this article. It's really important to time travel.
For my clarification: did she she age 200 years because she went back 200 yrs or was she gone for 200yrs and just living in the past for that amount of time?
@@bebekid1292 When she went back to the present with the time turner, she aged those 200 years. Even though she wasn't actually living in the past for that amount of time. She was only in the past for a short amount of time.
@@ashleytaylor4621 aaaahhhh I understand now!!!! Thank you so much! 🙂
@Ashley Taylor Um... where is this article? Can you link me, please?
That's not what they meant by aging though, though it is interesting
I like the idea of the invisibility cloak being made from threstral hair or skin. It would keep it in the realm of "seeing death", and tie it in to the elder wand. I also think it could tie in to the resurrection stone ie could be made from a threstral heart, bones, or eye. This would mean that the brother's defeating death was actually discovering and experimenting with threstrals like Albus did with dragon's blood.
Dumbledore did say that the Peverell were exceptional but dangerous wizards so animal experimentación doesn't sound too farfetched.
So when Hermione sends the Death Eater into the source of time travel breaking its barrier, did that prevent the ministry from being able to ever create more time turners in the future. The source was no longer contained and was now flowing through the Death Eater. Without it being contained the ministry could no longer siphon its powers to create time turners. Meaning, after breaking the rules of time travel to save Buckbeak and Sirius, let Harry save himself and Sirius, and draw werewolf Lupin away from the group, Hermione destroys all the time turners and the source used to make any future ones preventing anyone else from being able to break the rules of time travel. And that is such a Hermione thing to do, even if by accident.
This is actually something we study heavily in our department. We have had a bit of a problem since the 1995 issue with all of the stock being destroyed and not a single one surviving at the time. We have worked tirelessly on making new ones, but so far not a single one has ever left the Department.
If they DO age you faster then would the charm that detects underage magic wear off earlier? Would you even notice?
that would depend on how the underage detection magic works whether it's set to stop when an age is met or set to break on a certain date
Most likely wouldn’t notice at all if it did. The age charm is more of just a deterrent for young witches and wizards who aren’t aware how the charm works, but if you’re from a magical family or around an older wizard a lot, then you could do magic all you want because the charm only detects when magic happens around you, not if you’re the one doing it. So the Weasley children are definitely doing magic all the time (at least when they figure that out)
The time turner also could do both ways of time travel and deage you by the amount you traveled back in time.
In HBP, when Harry and Dumbledore talk about Tom killing his father, Harry asks about the Trace detecting Tom using the killing curse. Dumbledore admits that the only way the Ministry tracks underage magic is by detecting magic used at homes of underage magicals that have no magical adults living in them. That's why Dobby's magic was believed to be Harry's in CoS. By the way, that only targets muggle-raised kids - usually muggle-born.
I have no idea why Harry forgot that in DH when the Trace was brought up.
It’s one of those things where it depends on how the trace is attached to the person. If another person manually cast a spell to place it on them, then that person may need to remove it manually and it would only come off on the person’s true 17th birthday. But it may be that it’s a law and it only checks to see if you’re of age or emancipated and then it gets removed automagically.
We can get a little insight into how age works in relation to being a legal adult in the goblet of fire though. Fred and George age themselves by about a week and the goblet doesn’t consider them legal adults even though they technically are. So if magic laws works similar to the goblet, it takes your true birthday as the day you become an adult and lose the trace.
The only thing that bothered me about the Time Turner is that the chain was suddenly 3 times longer than it previously was just so it could fit around both Harry and Hermione. No addressing it like the One Ring changing size to fit the owner. The prop department literally just swapped chains.
What about the fact that it could have been used to completely change the outcomes of the later movies, but just disappeared and was never used again? Just think of all the places that could have been used to change the outcome of the movies.
@@jwarrior9986 well it was destroyed in ootp and i don’t think it would’ve been allowed to be used during the triwizard tournament cause two other schools are also there and they may not want to risk it or something? idk
@@sylvy16 you can not change the chain of events, the same way in PrisonerOfAzkaban going back in time didnt change anything and thats why Harry saw himself at the beginning casting patronus.
I actually think potions are a better example of "hard magic" in the Potterverse. Ingredients, procedure, and time are all important factors and small changes or mistakes have benefits or consequences. For example, the potions book wasn't wrong, it's just Snape discovered improvements on the methodology.
When I first read The Deathly Hallows, I imagined the story of the 3 brothers as a sort of animation. Then the movie comes along and my surprise to see the story almost exactly as I imagined it!
The biggest fundamental problem with this form of time travel that no one ever mentions is that it means that free will cannot exist within the harry potter universe.
One side-effect of the way time travel works in the books: You can not "change" your past if you are "sure" about it. Had Harry and Hermione "observed" Buckbeak's execution, they could not and/or had not saved him, and there was nothing they could do about it. Any efforts regarding changing it would fail in some unexpected way, like them getting delayed by Snape out of the blue!
A side side-effect of this would be: If you are experiencing something you'd like to change in the future, try to deprive yourself of absorbing the details. Like, close your eyes if you are about to experience pain, or pass out. Ironic how those are sometimes human instinct when facing a traumatic event.
that depends on if there could have still been an explanation for the events they saw not being how things went like for instance even if they had seen buckbeaks head be chopped off it could then have happened that they go back in time and decide to fake buckbeaks death using an illusion or some other circumstance that causes them to still have observed what they did but also recieve the desired outcome.
Thats not how it works, if it happened originally then it happened when they used the time turner. When buck beak escaped the first time it was Harry and hermione. This is why your first point is wrong, if they witnessed the execution, yes they couldn't go back and save buck beak but its because they couldn't be seen. No need for the other causes of they're delay like Snape or something.
Bassiaclly to summarise. If buck beak was executed they couldn't change that by going back because the future Harry and hermione were already there the first time buck beak was executed
In the books, they only hear the swish of the axe and then a thud. When they travel back to it, it turns out that Macnair had smashed it into a pumpkin in anger.
On another note, intentionally depriving yourself of details is what the characters do in Tenet.
I really like how Steins;Gate presented the idea of the observed past as well.
Without going into detail, the mc basically had to match up the event he was trying to change to what he observed in the past, in essence tricking his past self into still observing the same thing, thereby effecting a valid change without changing the observed past.
This theory is completely compatible with quantum physics where observations can change the actual result, i.e. the schodingers cat
5:30 A really good example of "hard magic" is in Christopher Paloni's, Eragon (spoliers).
In that book, the rules of magic are introduced to us. All magic requires the same amount of energy to do it the normal way, if a spell takes more energy than you have to offer, you will die, if you cast a spell, there is no way for the caster to end the spell until it has successfully been completed, if you try to bring back the dead, you will die, and the farther away the target is, the more energy it takes.
To cast a spell, you must tap into the energy in your body and utter some words in the ancient language. The effect of the spell depends on the casters intent and the words chosen. (For instance if you said "fire" it would be possible to simply heat something up, but it is impossible to cool something down.)
Spoiler part:
If skilled enough, you can draw energy from surrounding life to both replenish yourself and cast your spells. Saying things in the ancient language is unnecessary, but provides safety. If you want to burn a door down, but you look at your friend, you could catch them on fire instead. Saying, "burn that door down," in the ancient language guarantees that the door will be caught on fire even if your mind wanders.
Another fan I see... The Inheritance Cycle is soooooo good and vastly underappreciated...
There's something that I think has never really been explained/expanded on, and that's how magic can work for children. They can make things happen without wands, without teaching, without technique, without words, without spells. It seems to be driven off of emotion and just wanting something around them to change/being dissatisfied with the way it is. They often can't really control it, but couldn't, theoretically, Wizards learn to control and use this innate, more fluid magic? That's not about words and spells and techniques, but about simply willing something to be so? I can imagine it would be a lot more difficult - no predefined way of doing it, no method to learn and cling to, no instrument to direct your magic, just your mind, your will, your magic, and the world for you to change. I can imagine for those who managed to master it, it could be very powerful. No messing around, no trying to find the right spell, just using your magic directly, without a medium, to do your will. I'd be really interested in seeing that explored.
have you ever seen the witcher? I think it's the same concept as mages there
@@bobbyfalkenberg7374 Oh cool, I guess I'll look into that.
Its especially weird since they accidentally often use forms of magic which are pretty advanced.
As far as the movie goes I think we see this kind of casting a lot SPECIFICALLY from Dumbledore. It's been so many years since I've read the books that I've long forgotten if that also occurs in the written cannon. I also remember one of Harry's issues with Delores Umbridge is she doesn't put any emphasis on learning to cast without words, which is shown to be an important skill (and an impressive one to the other students) just about anyone can learn to do with proper teaching. I believe the purpose of the wand though is that it focuses and concentrates the magic intention, i.e "Eat slugs!" So casting magic without some kind of magical foci would be naturally more fluid than a set spell, but less potent. However the obvious conclusion has to be there was a time before wizards had wands, and how and what they used as foci for their magic then is a very fascinating topic indeed.
They have a video about how wands work, and why wizards use them (as a precision tool to channel magic) and how wandless magic works. Can't remember the name or anything as it is years ago since I watched it
As far as the invisibility cloak, I liked the theory that it's thestral related. If you think about it, the inherent invisibility magic of thestrals is very potent, just with the limitation that anyone that has 'seen death' can see them just fine. So, if you could figure out how their invisibility worked, and tweaked it to just always be on, that would make for a potent tool.
I hope you guys make a video on the whole hogwarts school schedule thing becasue the weekly schedule you guys used i have no idea who made it but it cant possibly be correct. They mention multiple times in the series having weekends off, and listing things like going to potions or herbology more than once a week. So that schedule has to be wrong for a typical school week.
But furthermore on that, how the 12 courses just make no sense to be overlapping at all. What 2 courses overlap with what? Does that mean even if you didnt sign up for all 12 classes but only added those 2 specific classes that overlapped that you would be required to get a time turner despite you having a normal schedule? I'd love to see you guys break all that down in better detail.
For their third year,my theory is divination/muggle studies/arithmancy and ancient ruins/charms
@@a.r11384 I'm 90%sure that this is confirmed somewhere is The prisoner of Azkaban
I think its like how it works in school, if no one else (apart from hermione) took that combination of classes then there is no overlap and thats where the school schedules them
@@a.r11384 thats how its made to seem in the book for sure since Hermione misses a charms class, and clearly disappears and reappears around divination classes until she drops it. So I'm sure this is accurate but it just still makes no sense to me.
Every student year 1-5 takes the common core classes which includes charms, so no other 3rd year is taking ancient runes? And even there is other 3rd years taking ancient runes why would it be scheduled at the same time as any year 3 charms class.
@@boyankovachev7982 yes when the get their class schedule in chapter called talons and tea leaves
Yeah closed time loop time travel is usually the safest version to use narratively it's best use is kinda how Harmony uses it to gain information. Also it's kinda hilarious that Harry catches on to the fact that he already did that large patronus spell before so he knew he could do it again but Harmony is lost when Harry explained his logic.
Remember that Slughorn got a little Time-Loop-Thingie from Lilly, when she was a student and it stopped "working" the moment she died.
Aw
At 15:04 you can see Baby Yoda come to life. He wants to time travel.
I was scanning the comments waiting for someone to point this out, I was like surely I was not the only one who saw that😂
@@anneelisecairns8406 We used the Force to see what was going on.
Honestly my biggest "issue" with the use of time turners in prisoner (we don't talk about cursed child), is that Hermione could have reasonably (and arguably easily) done it in a way that would not have been so noticeable. As far as it's portrayed she often "appears" out of nowhere in classes (now we know that's because she went to the classroom and then turned the time turner) when she should really know it's going to be noticeable if she just "appears" in a public area like that. What was stopping her from just going into a closet or a bathroom stall (really anywhere private that she could assume no one would be when she appears) and just go back there, walk out into the hall and on to class. The only reason that really exists for her to be repeatedly careless about it like that is JK wanted to use it to "hint" towards what she was doing outside of Ron noticing how many classes she was taking (many taking place at the same time).
Not to mention it is within her character to be smart enough to not only know that there is such an easy way to be more secretive about it and also how important it is to keep that secret.
Cursed child is goated
I don’t think the book says she literally appeared out of nowhere. I think it’s just that they didn’t see her behind them and then they’d randomly hear her talk from behind/beside them and they’d get surprised. So she could’ve easily done those things you’ve mentioned. But yes I agree with the little nods to her suspicious activity throughout the book.
On a side note, imagine if she reappeared in the toilet stall with someone while someone was in there 😂
@@mattallen4154 That's part of why my initial idea was more for a closet, less awkward if you make a mistake and appear on top of someone.
The toilet stall comment is the reason I think she had to appear in her assigned seat (possibly) when she had to time travel.
@@mrs.manrique7411 Idk honestly, hard to believe that Dumbledore or Mcgonagall wouldn't have designated a space that they'd guarantee to be empty or only have them in it when she needed to go back. It's not like she'd have to worry about travel time to get there even if it was slightly far from where she'd be coming/going, since she'd be going back in time.
Not a bad description of hard and soft magic in the context of HP, although the terms in my experience are typically used to describe systems moreso than elements within a system (although there's nothing saying that magic systems can't have various elements that fall on different points on the hard and soft spectrum). HP as a whole leans fairly heavily into the soft side of the spectrum so the examples are a bit iffy (I personally like using FMA's Alchemy vs. LOTR's magic), but I can see the reason for staying within HP instead of bringing in other media. And at the end of the day, it is a spectrum and trying to fit each magic system into neat little boxes is a fool's errand anyway.
BTW, Hello Future Me has several videos on magic systems that break down the hard-soft distinction much more thoroughly. I highly recommend checking them out if anyone wants to learn more.
To me, the creepiest thing about time turners is the manner in which they confirm free will doesn't exist. Like what if Harry saw the pebble to throw at past-Harry's head and decided "nah, let's NOT do that and see how this plays out".
That's a little silly though as Harry does not have any reason not to behave in the way he initially does. It's not a lack of will but rather a lack of differences that would make him want to behave differently.
The books do mention them having double Potions a few times, it's not out of the realm of possibility that the students have a double of each class once a week.
It’s all wibbly wobbly, timey wimy…. stuff
it's way simpler my dudes. Aging is the decay of your cells. Her body experienced more during the schoolyear, so she technically aged faster. They didn't change back to how they looked those hours earlier so they themselves were not deaged.
And again the movies also shows that as time is moving around them meaning time is going, thus moving. If the time wasn't moving they would jump instantly and not have aged. Meaning they have experienced the same period of time 3 times.
I think PoA did a great job of dealing with time travel.
When Dumbledore be Days "maybe more than one life can be saved" he's talking about maybe saving Sirius, because he knows Buckbeak will be spared. But we think Buckbeak is the extra because we (the reader) have not yet seen Sirius die
Time turners are definitely still very soft magic. They work because they are magic. You can make those charms because you can and they work because they do. Compare that to say a cloak made of demiguise hair. The cloak has a strict method to make it, limitations on how it works, and a detailed origin and reasons for that origin
And considering how the rescue of Buckbeak and Sirius Black was the only time in the series where a time-turner was used with the Novikov self-consistent principle applied, and Pottermore had a story about a witch who travelled back to the 1400's and caused many people to not be born by her interactions with their ancestors, and Harry Potter and the Cursed Child used a time-turner more extensively to create alternate realities, and not to mention dialogue in Prisoner of Azkaban implying that the time-turners can be dangerous to mess with time even though that one time Harry time-traveled in that book had everything play out exactly the same and even had him already seen his future self cast the Patronus which led him going to that spot to see how his dead father showed up to cast it before realizing he saw his time-travelling self all along! The time-turners are very much soft magic for how inconsistent they work. Sometimes you were always there, and sometimes you can create alternate timelines? Soft magic. Though maybe it's the five hours that makes a difference between self-consistent time-travel and split timelines.
Yeah but it's still a magical cloak that makes you invisible because it's... magic.
It's all soft magic.
@@althealligator1467 It is explained through it being a natural ability of a demiguise. It has limitations, rules, and a process to make it. I would consider that hard magic
@@isaac_aren Okay but how does a demiguise become invisible? That's not explanation, it's just deepened lore, which is more interesting. You can't explain it, because it's not real and it's invented for a story.
Hard and soft magic is a flimsy concept, as that's not how anyone who is writing a story or lore is thinking about it. I don't really get the point of it. You can't explain magic, you can just make it more or less believable or well developed in your fictional world.
I find limitations and rules make magic less believable when they're arbitrarily chosen. Things in the real world don't have rules, they just happen in similar recurring patterns which we can recognize as averages; in other words, differences between different things are quantitative, not qualitative. There are no rules, just averages. That's why an arbitrary rule makes magic less believable, since you can't explain it.
For example, the idea that you can only cast certain spells with a wand, or a specific incantation or wand movement. Why? Given that you can't explain it, this type of stuff only seems realistic if it reflects the real world. In the real world, can you only produce flame with a flamethrower? Is there only one way to script a program in only one specific language in order for it to do something? No, those are man-made inventions that _help_ get the desired effect.
I'm having a really hard time expressing what I mean, as you can probably tell lol. Basically, if there are rules, they can't be arbitrary, infallible, rigid rules, cause those just don't exist - they have to be guidelines for how stuff _generally_ functions, by making an average.
But that's why I love Harry Potter, it's so logical, while very often not having arbitrary rules that just make most stories kinda cringey.
Old magic is the most interesting for me. Magic that can be used without wands and is extremely powerful.
that's called bending.
@@davidbakke9293 in Harry Potter it’s called “old magic”
Narnia too
Do y'all plan on doing theories for Hogwarts Legacy? The newest gameplay reveal seems to have plenty of material to work with.
I agree. And I'm SO excited to play it when it comes out 👀
I'd like to a video on that there's ton of stuff in that game
Agreed I'd love a breakdown of the differences between when the books tale place and the game, idk how lore linked things will be but I have high hopes
Omg I love these theories I got covid and have had a bad couple of days this made me so much happier
Since Harry went back in time with Hermione for 3 hours (3 turns as suggested by Dumbledore) to save Buckbeak and Sirius & Harry from the Dementors, we could expect that Harry also aged those 3 hours. The Trace (another point of contention for plot holes) might have disappeared already 3 hours in advance before Harry's official birthday of July 31st.
Hermione spent months paralized in CoS so even if she did age during PoA, she couldn't have aged too much cause she was already young from being paralized and not aging for months
So basically she earned back the time in which she was paralysed the previous year
true.
I always thought about the magic in Harry Potter to be like science is in real life: there is an explaination to everything, we simply did not found out everything yet. I always found it to be very realistic because of this.
I actually think that there is a simpler (although less fun) way to conclude that Hermione aged when she used the time turner. We learn by forming new neuro pathways in our brains, so essentially out brain ages with us as we learn. So she definitely had to age a bit if she was gonna retain anything she learnt in her classes.
Hey Brothers! I recently discovered that J.K. originally wrote an unreleased version of the whomping willow car crash scene in chamber of secrets that involves Harry and Ron instead crashing into the lake and getting rescued by mer-people that we later see in GOF. I’d love to hear your thoughts about how this would have affected the storyline and whether it would have been a better or worse choice for certain plot development.
Also a bit confusing... what controls where you end up? Hermoine and Harry end up in the great hall because... some reason. Why? Do you get to choose the location? If so, how do you select it? It can't. be the rotation of the earth, because they traveled back 3-4 hours (I forget) so the earth would have rotated a lot more than about 100-200 feet.
Don't try to think about it too accurately, because if you went with rotation then there's also earth orbiting sun, solar system moving, orbiting Galaxy center, and Milkyway itself moving. Just think of "magic" -> geographically same spot and you're good.
They don’t end up in the great hall, though; they’re in the same spot as they were before using the time turner.
Longitude, latitude and altitude won’t change. All that changes is the time. Also you end up where you were.
@@Naro_Rivers In the book, they use the time turner in the hospital wing and end up in a closet off the great hall. yeah I always wondered about that. no explanation, just plot convenience I guess.
@@nickgarcia6572 They arrive in the Great Hall and they a moment later their past selves are also in the Great Hall. Maybe the source time travel magic would take you back to exactly where you were at that time, but in making the time turners they managed to manipulate it to have you land far enough away that you can hide before your past self sees you...? (I know that still leaves lots of problems and it is just a plot hole, I'm just trying to come up with any sort of explanation)
I like that they gave Hermione this very powerful artifact so that she could take more classes. And, this was better solution than offering private tutorial, changing the schedule, or telling her to drop the extra electives.
I have two questions about time turners, why doesn't McGonagall set up a room, so Hermione can catch a few extra hours of sleep, and did Tom Riddle get a time turner?
Suspension of disbelief helps a lot with time turners. In the case of Hermione just kinda yoloing with it around the school, she likely used classrooms known to be empty to time turn or would shove herself in a corner behind a statue outside of the classroom she needs to be at. Sleeping is something where she could stay up in the library later and go up to her dorm when her dormmates were asleep in discreetly turn time in bed back to when she knows no one else is in the dorm so she can sleep early. This is especially possible if her bed is the farthest away from everything. And if someone asks why she came in late she could say she left something in the common room.
I don't think Dumbledore trusted Riddle with a time turner because he knew there was something off about him. The only other known characters that took all 12 classes were Barty Crouch, Bill Weasley, and Percy Weasley, who are definitely trusting.
@@davidbakke9293 Dumbledore wasn't headmaster while Tom Riddle was at Hogwarts.
@@mryoungandbrave1 true
You guys should look into the theory that Bellaxtrix wasn't a Death Eater until after escaping Azkaban. Voldemort claims two Lestranges went to jail for him, but we know three did. The podcast "Determination, Deliberation, and Dragons" proposed that Bellatrix was the one who wasn't a Death Eater at that point.
Maybe he just personally considered her more of a Black, because thats what she was born as? especially since its implied that Voldemort actually recruits his Death Eaters when they are still at school, looking at how Draco and Regulus where both recruited when they were 16 years old. So even if we would assume that Bellatrix married Rodolphus immediately after school, it could very well be that Voldemort met her when she was still Bellatrix Black, so he kept on considering her as a Black instead.
Funny thing is that you can't actually change the past because the changes you do already happened. BUT what if Hermione had seen her future self doing something like saving Buckbeak, knowing that she will use the time-turner later. Could she choose not to use it when the time comes? And if she could, would THAT change the past? It's fun to think that you can't change anything using a time-turner, but maybe you could change stuff by not using one :D
Well If she didn't do it, then it never would've happened lol
@@conorhernon4691 But that's the thing isn't it, if you see yourself from the future, does that remove your free will from you? And we know some witches or wizards have seen their past/future selves, so what followed?
@@Miko-vi8vq there's a reason you aren't supposed to see yourself I suppose
You know how perfectly timed this video is this? I just started rereading PoA three days ago.
It's was great video, but you did not take into account all the hours that Hermione went back to get all the homework done, which is explicitly written in the books she did
I think divination is one of those skills that can be learned with a proper mindset. Occlumency and Legilimency are both born skills and learned skills and can be done by anyone with the correct mindset. Prof Trelawny explains that bookish brains can't grasp the concept on divining because there is no one right answer.
I think that giving true prophecies is born only, you can’t learn it, but fortune telling with Crystal balls, tea leaves, and other mediums can be learned by any wizard or witch, though some are born better at it
@@emberandfriendsanimations2454 exactly, the sight is inherited and everything else is just very precise guessing, which I'm sure is what Dumbledore means when he states that he's a very good guesser
I think the calculations maybe slightly off, because you’ve assumed that Hermione (and Percy) would only have used the Time-turner to attend classes; I’m quite certain they both would have used it to catch up on Homework and Studying especially as it got closer to the exam periods at the end of the year.
But I do have another theory - I think assuming the Percy Weasley character in the Harry Potter PS/SS and Chamber of Secrets video games where he has an entire library/wing of the common room purely to himself to study - I would imagine he turned hours back whilst in the room, he sealed it because there would have been multiple copies of himself studying for all the various classes he was taking, and with the door locked - he could study in peace without causing a mass hysteria in the common room.
So if a person travels back in time they can obviousely bring objects with them. That leads to one object existing twice at the same time. Thats kind of interesting considering artifacts like the deathly hallows or horcruxes. What happenes if the elder wand has to fight itself? What happenes to a person when only a part of their soul travels back in time?
Hey SuperCarlinBrothers, have you ever theorized what might have been behind that one closed door inside the Department of Mysteries? You know, the one that just straight up melts Harry's lock-picking pocket knife. I feel like I've seen a video like that but I can't find it anymore....
It's the room of love (possibly) that can't be opened.
@@DhanushV2206 yeah i thought so too, idk maybe there's someone that thinks something else is being researched there
I feel like Time-turners and the Hour Reversal Charms are magic that is bound to the concept of fate.
Asked on Twitter but might as well do it here...
So, does a horcrux NEED to be alive?
What do I mean? Let me explain...
So, we're told by Dumbledore that when Voldemort's attack back fired that a piece of his soul attached itself to "The only living thing in the room".
Then I remembered that the locket is said to have a mechanical heartbeat and the diary (as Harry puts it) "Sorta died when I stabbed it.)
Naghinni (forgive spelling) is obviously alive.
I know that living things exist without a soul (dementors kiss)
So I wonder if, making a horcrux involves turning an object "Alive" without a soul to place a piece of soul into it and thus sustaining the soul?
And could this explain why Naghinni (again, forgive spelling) is not her Sweet self that is presented in Crimes if Grindlewald... because she was given a dementors kiss, removing her soul and replacing it with Voldemorts piece?
Very interesting look on Horcruxes. The cup and diadem were not shown to be alive (diadem emits sound only in movies to be known to Harry).
The ring could potentially be alive to persuade Dumbledore to wear it.
Like I said, love to hear more on this.
@@DhanushV2206 I know, right?! It's an interesting theory to explore if nothing else...
...
I think so anyway.
My dad was stationed in Korea when I graduated from high school. I then moved to Arizona. When I flew here, I arrived before I left. Specifically, I left Tuesday morning, and arrived Monday night. Of course, when I went back to visit my parents, I arrived two days after I left. So anyway, you talking about Hermione gaining and losing time made me think of that little anecdote.
I was legitimately wondering if there would be a video today, I was worried that today of all days, you guys wouldn't put out a video, but it's nice to have a new SCB video on my Birthday!
Happy Birthday 🎂
Can we also just appreciate how Dumbledore was out here organising Time Heists way before the Avengers made it cool. Could you please make a video on how he organised this in the space of about 30 minutes between Sirius being captured and the dementors arriving to administer the Kiss?
Also how did he know to delay the execution of Buckbeek before he knew Sirius was innocent?
Wouldn't Percy have aged 3 weeks extra instead of 5, becuase OWLs are held in the 5th year, not the 7th. I think you even mention it in the video about Percy, that the first thing he did after his 5th year is dropping classes and getting a girlfriend
As a huge fan of Brandon Sanderson, I'm glad that you guys are finally talking about hard and soft magic systems! Any chance you'll start talking about the Cosmere?
I *love* stories with time travel in them, because I like to see how various writers handle the paradoxes.
so ducks can go in cups but rabbits can't come out of hats?
I love this!!
Will you be doing a reaction to the trailers for the New Harry Potter gameplay reveal, as it looks amazing! Love to here what you guys think and any extra things we may have missed
You think they'll mention the thinly veiled antisemitism?
@@WaitingForRevolution thinly veiled would imply deliberate which I highly doubt it was. Especially as Dark Wizards are generally the pure blood I.e. Wizard Nazi's, I don't think they be teaming up with what you perceive as an allegory for Jewish people, do you?
ua-cam.com/video/3UAs8YJH-AE/v-deo.html
Game trailer reactions kinda weird but they definitely need to play it especially when demo is available that would be fun
@@Alex-cw3rz well in the game it’s clear they aren’t meant to be Jewish people, but in the books they were, so it’s weird that in the game them being a lower class than humans is considered a good thing.
another interesting angle to look at this is :
if hermoine did age down you'd assume she would also forget whatever she learned in the time she is reversing, otherwise her mind wouldn't really age back. and if that was the case, using a time turning for extra classes would be kind of useless.
Would be an interesting twist on time travel for dramatic purposes though, you can go back in time but you'll lose all prior knowledge of what happened to prevent any paradoxes
It always makes me happy when you guys upload (especially hp)
The way that there's a difference between the invisibility cloak and other invisibility cloaks, might be the difference between time turners and that time Device being used in secrets of Dumbledore. That might be "a magical item that is special because it is"
Did anyone else notice Grogu...
I think theres more to take into account for maintaining a schedule where you have twice as many classes as your peers, you not only need to make time to attend the class (including getting there) you also need to make time to complete any homework assignment and possibly make extra time to study for exams. So with this taken into account Percy is likely older than your math came up with
One of the best time travel treatments I've ever seen.
Tricky subject to handle in writing.
I reckon we need a tier list for the most powerful magical items
Excellent idea
potato = s tier
isn't the fact that you have to do a strong enough magic to get into Hogwarts go against the whole wand hard magic thing. I thought wands and the words for spells work more as a focus.
They do! Wands are conductors to do more powerful magic I believe. But all witches and wizards can do a little magic because it’s IN them. Just like magical beasts! The wand just conducts (and maybe adds) to the magic that’s already inside. So wands are still technically considered hard magic in that way whereas witches/wizards could technically be considered soft magic. There’s really no explanation to WHY they have magic inside them, they just do.
I love time turners!!! Nice to catch an early release haha! Thanks guys for the new video!! ❤
15:03 when I tell you that Grogu's eyes scared the sweet bejesus out of me...
15:06 the glowing eyes are creepy
I have a question, in Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince, what would Fudge say to Harry if could've convinced Dumbledore to let him speak with him? He felt so certain that if he could've talk to him he would still be minister
Probably want to recruit Harry for the Ministry to show the Wizarding World how much of a good job he (Fudge) is doing all of a sudden. Basically the same thing Scrimgeour does during Christmas that year.
i've only read the thumbnail (which I just now noticed is different from the video title) and this is a question I've been thinking about for about 2 months (Recently started re reading the harry potter books during my down time at work)
I guess if you age a little every time you use a time turner, it would explain the significant change in dumbledores appearance from fantastic beasts to Harry Potter and if he had stopped using it for big changes it would explain the reason why he doesn’t use it in Harry’s time to stop Voldemort or Cedric’s death 😅
You forgot about the few hours for the end of year exams, where we know she had 3 exams at 9am which I think would have lasted till noon, there would also have likely been more schedule conflicts than that.
Good to see you guys paid the math budget. Also, why were Bruno's eyes on Grogu again? And you guys mentioned that they have classes on Saturdays once I think, because one of the years, they have their opening feast on a friday, because they always go to school on Sept. 1st
I was so sad that they didnt put the time room in the movie. I wanted to see that.
The interesting thing about how time turners seem to work on the bootstrap paradox is that it means that the HP universe is completely deterministic. Either free will does not exist or using a time turner creates several iterations of an interval of time where each iteration overwrites the previous until a stable loop is reached.
Am I the only one who noticed anything weird at the 15 min 4 sec mark? Lol look to the right
I think why Hermione and Percy act so much more mature, is that on those extra weeks they aged, they are fully AWAKE during that time.
...
Hermione's Thursday's aren't 7 hour school days. They are 10 HOUR SCHOOL DAYS!
And knowing both Hermione and Percy, they wouldn't DARE to use the time turners to get some extra sleep. They know better than that.
"What is the demiguise in this example?" is a sentence I shall, from now on, try to include in every single explanation I give, about anything.
1500 years later:
etymologists: i wonder where the word dæemígaoyz'e, an word used to explain something comes from...
I really like Dirk Gently time travel. It’s so specific to it’s gorgeous style, and it works SO WELL with that story
You probably will never see this comment but you guys should read Keeper of the Lost cities. It is not a movie/ series YET. But it is a great book series and you should read it.
YEEEAAAAAAAAH!!!!!
Yay I Found A Keeper of the Lost Cities fan!!!
I hope you guys are having a good day! Your theories always make me smile :)
Finally. This is the question. I’ve been waiting for you to answer since I started watching you years ago. I’ve also asked you this multiple times in UA-cam comments.
This video was perfect and I loved the explanation!
You guys hyped for Hogwarts Legacy? Because I AM! Plus it'd make a great livestream/ special event.
J will play it on his gaming channel.
Dude, you have no idea how hyped I am and am so infuriated that I have to wait till december for it
@@Ranger1812 DOPE!
It would be a great tie-in to bring back a certain SCG series that was unfairly dropped...
*Umbridge cough*
Just the smallest nitpick Percy would have only needed a timeturner from years 3-5 to pass all the OWLs. Year 6 onwards he'd be taking NEWTs
The time turner reminds me of something similar from doctor who. As the doctor's always been able to travel in time but once had to go back and save the past when he's already been in the current situation. (Under the lake/before the flood) I like how there's similar things in both fandoms i enjoy
What’s stopping someone from going back in time several times to form an army of themselves? As long as you had planned this ahead of time, it would not shock you because you planned to execute this already.
So...I'm going to do some actual (theoretical) physics with y'all here. You excited? Me too! The Harry Potter series uses a form of time travel called "closed loop", which assumes that there IS ONLY EVER one timeline, but that, with time travel, that singular timeline always loops around on itself, kind of like a snake eating its own tail. Now, that form of time travel is ONLY possible if the other kind is NOT possible. The other kind is called "multiverse" time travel, which, as the name suggests, takes place between multiple universes. Think about Dragon Ball Z, if you've ever seen it. Trunks goes back to change the past, but only does so in another version of their same universe, where the same laws of physics apply, and where events played out in comparable ways. Now, when Trunks saves the MAIN timeline, the one that we're in throughout the series, it does NOT save his timeline, because, for every time you time travel, you travel in space, too, into another universe. You effectively CAN'T go around in time without going around in space, either. Only thing is, our real-world physics have not conclusively proven multiverse. At this point, it's only speculation, but it would deal with the issue of where our universe came from: it would, presumably, have budded, or grown out of, another universe. Mind you, even multiverse only pushes the problem of infinite regression back by one more step. If our universe grew out of another, where did THAT one come from? And so on and so forth, presumably back and back indefinitely.
bomer
Never seen DBZ, but that's also the time travel logic in Endgame if anyone's curious.
Why does Mirabel have glasses if her mom can heal everything?
Just chug down some homemade milk..?
I wouldn’t say that bad eyesight is really an injury. I’ve always thought of Julieta as healing injuries more than long term illnesses or health-related issues
@@aspinthesnake5636 I can’t remember but did her mom heal someone with a disease?
2:07 - 2:15
Ron’s Perception Check : 16!
Ron’s Persuasion Check : Nat 1…
i love this been watching you guys for 5 years please keep the awesomeness up❤❤