Why God of War Challenged Fate, Then Did It Again
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- Опубліковано 15 лют 2023
- Their father could tell the future but he never prophesied that. | Get a Henson razor and a free pack of 100 blades with code JACOB at: bit.ly/3G3sa59
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God of War Ragnarök: great dad game, hellish mom game by Maddy Myers- www.polygon.com/23519077/god-...
Additional Editing by Isaac Holland
Additional Footage from Razbuten
Media Used: God of War, God of War 2, God of War 3, God of War: Ascension, God of War (2018), God of War Ragnarök, The Last of Us Part 2, Horizon Zero Dawn, Resistance: Fall of Man, NBA 2K7, Tabletop Simulator, Mission Impossible 2, Hercules
Music Used (Chronologically): Main Titles (GoW 2), Enthroned on Mount Olympus (GoW), Svartalfheim (GoW R), Waking the Sleeping Giant (GoW 2), The Summit (GoW 2018), Giantess of Ironwood (GoW R), The Isle of Creation (GoW 2), A Son’s Path (GoW R), Phoenix Rising (GoW 2), Remembering Faye (GoW R), The Bathhouse (GoW 2), Giantess of Ironwood (GoW R), Palace of the Fates (GoW 2), To Forgive or to Kill (GoW R), The Isle of Creation (GoW 2) Ragnarok (GoW R), Dark Tavern (Walt Adams), God-Like (George TraGiC, GoW 2)
Thumbnail Credit: Annie Maynard
Description Credit: Memorial by Alice Oswald
Additional music by Epidemic Sound - Ігри
If you liked this video and/or want to show love to Cowboy Kratos, please consider supporting my Patreon: www.patreon.com/JacobGeller
Hey man, just letting you know you got an audio recording issue which results in clipping. 3:35 for example.
Great video, thanks your thoughts and insights!
Sorta wish there was like a onetime patreon payment option that included the razor.
You should watch Madoka Magica in exchange for me dealing with your scammers lol
@@zupzipzoo9879 yea I got one earlier today on my comment saying to message him on discord. I thought I was actually talking with Jacob and that made my day lol but then I won a PS5 and noticed it was in fact Jacob Giller lol
@@scottfrost6537 got the same comment, i'm too paranoid to fall for it, but funny nonetheless :D
wouldn’t be a jacob video without the iconic phrase ‘i think about this moment a lot’
this phrase infected my natural speech because of their videos
They all just cycle around his brain like on a lazy Susan
Like Ryan Hollinger's "Hoyever"
@@TheBfutgreg very damn true
evil Jacob Geller be like: 'i did Not think about this moment a lot'
Jacob has a humongous brain. Every video he says "This moment has sat on my mind for years." or something of the like.
He just like me fr
Not only part of him that is huge 😏
@@noaha6185 yeah he got a big ol mustache as well boe
the space that people usually use to remember names and birthdays and stuff is just filled with video game plot elements for me
@@JacobGeller dates are what calenders are for. Keep that important space in your head for game OSTs
I love how much Jacob seems to just enjoy stuff. Mans considers the world around him so deeply and its a joy to watch.
He's the definition of the second type of person in "Some people can read War and Peace and come away thinking it's a simple adventure story. Others can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe"
@@jacob99503 I've never heard that full saying before, only bits and pieces. I really like it, thanks!
@@jacob99503 how it feels to chew 5 gum
@@diamond_dogs Ingredients: Weed, PCP, Shrooms...
Exaclty, its amazing. I love to hear people talk about things they like, things they love. We are so used to hear and talk about things we dislike, its so fresh.
...and then in the fourth one Kratos can be a pirate for no reason and it'll be unironically a really good pirate game but everyone will wonder why it's still also a God of War title
Ac4 reference?
Black Flag slaps
@@glibchubik4090 still made no sense why it was called an assassin's creed game. ya werent an assassin until the last 8th of the game. then again odssey and origins shouldnt have been assassin's creed games either.
@@Kris-wo4pj well MGS3 has no metal gears in it. Anyways I liked Edward having an outside perspective to the conflict and joining after heavy consideration. Made the creed’s ideals feel more integral to the story.
@@diamond_dogs I mean yes, but it's so very clearly in universe. It feels VERY Metal Gear despite the closest thing to a metal gear being a weird rocket propelled tank/nuke launcher thing. (The Shagohod is such a silly vehicle; in a game that takes place 7 years after the Soviets finished developing ICBMs, it really doesn't add anything significant to the nuclear arsenal) Sure you're in a forest instead of an installation, but that just allows them to introduce more stealth mechanics that double down on what the game was already about.
Black Flag feels very not Assassin's Creed. Where we had cities, we now get these tiny colonial forts and towns. Where we had occasional bits of open terrain, we have a very well designed sailing and piracy adventure map. Where we had a combat system that encouraged fleeing and ambush strategies, we have a system that makes you feel exceedingly powerful. Where we had a story where the Assassin vs Templar overplot was all but omnipresent, we have a plot about a main character who's slowly learning that the world doesn't entirely revolve around his own wants and dreams. On every level, it's as unlike AC as it's possible to be while still being a Ubisoft open world of that era.
Honestly one of the biggest feats of GoW Ragnarok is that the entire game is telling you Odin is the villain but yet him becoming violent at the end still feels like such a surprise
Honestly what I like about Odin is he's the kind of dick who stays in character so long that you actually start to think that maybe you're wrong.
@saniakshay12 the way the asgaurdians talked about Odin in comparison to mimir to Freya made me think, just for a few moments that perhaps Odin is just being exaggerated.
But no, he's just as bad he's made out to be.
He's such a slam dunk of a character compared to the messy narrative that surrounds him. He's a big part of why I can't say I dislike the story.
I was genuinely trusting Odin most of the game. He completely conned me lol
never played a god of war yet I will deeply enjoy having the entire series spoiled in this UA-cam video essay. thank you Jacob, very cool
I barely even play any of the kind of games Geller plays, I'm here for his masterful storytelling.
@@inkynewt Absolutely
Same, cheers to that
None of them are any good I wouldn't bother
@@nietzchepreacher9477 It costs $0 not to comment how much you dislike something harmless that others are expressing love for, and is better for everyone involved. Don't waste your energy making your and everyone else's day worse.
Holy hell the parallel with the Kratos cave painting and Atreus holding Odin at the end is something I didn’t notice until this video and had me dumbstruck
Right?! I'd been stuck thinking about how they never resolved Kratos' fate but it was right there, unannounced, on the off chance you notice it.
Mad respect to the devs for leaving it that way, though. Makes it much more satisfying to have it finally click
Yep, for anyone else is still confused reading this. Fate was “broken” when kratos told atreus to open his heart. Because kratos changed, opened his heart as well. Something the norns said he would not be able to do. Odin didn’t change, which led to his death the way as it was. Paralleling the prophecy if kratos didn’t change.
It’s a bit hard to understand takes a few mental reviews but it’s neat
Also in the paintings there are transparent things coming out of both Kratos and Atreus. Look kinda like souls, right? And the way Odin dies is by Atreus whispering his soul into the marble. It’s sooo cool how all the nuances work.
BROOOOOOOO 🤯
WHAT?! It was the first thing that came to my head and I thought it was so cool when I first saw the scene, like the paintings are not vague enough for you to guess who's who but vague enough for a small change like that to be possible
It's like they bent the timeline just enough to change who would die but not enough for there to be something like a paradox
A cruel father figure still died and another went on to live and have Atreus by his side that day, but it was not the ones everyone expected
As a Scandinavian i really like the games take on the Norse gods. They feel so Scandinavian, like the crew watched a bunch of Danish black comedies and based the characters of them.
For real. I was scared they'd make Asgard extremely extravagant and gaudy like how MCU treated it. But how they actually presented it is so perfect. It truly felt like a place for Gods worshipped by Vikings and raiders.
@@gracecalis5421 Thor really highlights this. I was a little worried that they would make him handsome and chiseled like in the MCU. But no. They made him a massive, fat muscle man that is drunk 70% of the game. They even gave him his red hair. I love that.
It's so wonderful!! I really dislike most adaptations of the mythos but the gow games are one of the few pieces of media about them that I can consume without going insane
This is so true. I love the way Asgard is still “the pinnacle of civilization in the Nine Realms” while still looking like something in the limits of Norse imagination and technology. I love how all the Aesir gods are so dickish and violent like the stories make them seem.
@@presseagainidareyou4704 And that in and of itself is a reflection of Asgardian arrogance. I'd say the Elven civilization is aesthetically more impressive. The Dwarven civilization is technologically more advanced, to the point that the Aesir consistently require the Dwarves' creations. The Vanir has superior knowledge on magic, again to the point that the Aesir rely on their magic. The Jotnar clearly had something that the Aesir fear, or doesn't have, to the point that their genocide is warranted. And yet, they are just a rinky dink village, thinking that if they make the biggest wall they could, they would be safe.
the jumpscare that mustache gave me will forever be etched in my memory
Really says a lot about society
I think about this moustache a lot.
@@TheEvilCheesecake top 20 comments of all time
"Do you recall Jacob's surprise cowboy moustache in that 2023 God of War video? I think of that moment a lot"
Maybe he's working towards Disco Elysium style muttonchops
really wish you got to talk about the ps2 sex minigame, such a sadness the die rolled that way.
12:00 talking about the camera while climbing the wall, this is something I really love about the more recent assassin’s creed games. They take care to pull the camera further back the higher you climb and gradually present you with a sense of scale for what you’re achieving. a little minutia I really appreciate.
That's actually lovely to contemplate as a modest aesthetic choice paying off big dividends.
Agree on this. The climbing itself felt 'too safe' so you don't have to worry Atreus might fall, so i'm just asking "why not just sells the epic scale alltogether?" That would at least justifies the long climbing as well
I really hope that in the next gow game series they combine both camera systems, keep the camera close and personal until the moment calls for it and they pan out and focus on a pyramid as you head towards it’s gilded entrance and then panning back in all in once camera shot.
Wow they had some specifics planned out in advance. I just noticed that the prophecy mural isn't Atreus grieving Kratos' death. It's Atreus singing Kratos to sleep like he ended up doing to Odin.
I hadn’t even noticed that, damn!
Yeah, it did look super weird when I initially saw it. The soul aspect makes so much more sense.
Does he have an eye patch? It looks like it.
I really love the Nourns of God of War ragnarok.
They are very interesting, and even more interesting is their view of the future.
They don't read the future, they read people, down to every single fibre of their very being. And so they know what you will do. And what you will choose.
Changing your fate technically isn't hard, and yet completely impossible. Because changing it would require you to not be you. You need to change so fundamentally that by the end, it technically isn't even your fate anymore. Because you would be someone else.
“To grieve deeply is to love completely. Open your heart to the world as you have done to me and you will find every reason to keep living in it.” Ragnarok is made entirely by this line for me. it’s not due to some largely thought out lit analysis reason, but it just feels right. this one line hit me at a perfect time for me to be receptive to it, and it almost has the same grounding effect of the resi 4 save room theme, but on an emotional standpoint. reminds you that everything is okay, even if it’s not. there’s so much love for you to give to the world, even when you think you have none left
Sure it's a nice message, but not one I'd care to give to a murderer of their own family... Some things you just don't get to leave behind and walk back from.
There's some legitimately touching writing in the norse games. The fact that they fully use the greek tragedy of Kratos' past as a back drop is and always will be such a cool move.
@@Urvuturama From what I've seen, they really don't use it for more than nudging and winking at us for a reference and that's narratively what ultimately let these games down for me. Granted I haven't played GoW Ragnarök, so I'm not 100% sure if anyone actually confronts and challenges Kratos about his past attrocities (beyond Freya giving him some form of "oh wow!" reaction, or his enemies calling him names), but I've looked into it enough to know that Atreus still doesn't know and that's enough to undercut any emotional impact their ongoing family dynamic stands to have for me, because I cannot buy their shared arc about building an honest and trustful relationship as sincere, without atleast some confrontation addressing how that knowledge would affect things between them.
@@jondoe7036 I've watched someone else play it. It's not flawless -- the gameplay does sort of undercut the things the writing wants to say. But the quiet character moments are really well-written. I was blown away by how deftly the character development was handled.
Kratos genuinely regrets the person he used to be. He doesn't bring it up at first because he has this idea that he can protect Atreus from violence by hiding it from him. When that fails and violence finds them anyway, he attempts to mold Atreus into someone capable of ignoring injustice for the sake of survival. This sits poorly and there's this incredible tension and distrust between them for a while, until finally Atreus runs off to forge his own path. He absolutely knows Kratos is hiding things and uses it to excuse his own deceptive behavior. In the wake of all this, Kratos is angry and spiteful to those around him, until he finally realizes that he's ultimately is angry at himself for failing to protect his son and teaching him to be dishonest and hide from his problems.
He really does have this believable moment of seeing the person he used to be and making the conscious choice to do better, for the sake of his family. He wants to be a good father but he needs a wake up call to see how he's failing. He isn't perfect and that's sort of the point.
There's this secondary theme of forgiving people you love who have hurt you deeply, even if they haven't fixed all their problems. Freya and Freyr, Sindri and Brok, Thrùd and Thor and Sif, Angrboda and her grandmother. There's a great deal of emphasis on accepting genuine apologies as long as they're accompanied by a real effort to do better.
Kratos and Atreus have a great deal of push and pull on each other, but ultimately I think Atreus teaches Kratos more than the other way around. Once the two reconcile Atreus calls Kratos out on his mistakes and Kratos actually listens, continuously through the rest of the game. He makes an effort to consider his kid's opinion and well-being, making sure to include him in major decisions and agreeing to be more honest. That's what's going on when that line about opening his heart is spoken. Atreus wants to be worthy of his dad's praise so when civilians get caught up in the final assault on Asgard, he decides he wants to ignore it and press forward because that's what he thinks Kratos would want. But Kratos sees this and tells him, basically, "I trust your instincts and I want you to do what you think is right," and then they make a concerted effort to rescue the civilians at the expense of precious time and resources. Because Kratos thinks Atreus' sense of justice is worth listening to.
It feels much more natural with all that context. He's learned to value his son in a much more meaningful way, and that moment is just the first time he actually verbalizes it.
Edit: wait that's the thing Faye says in Kratos' dream, which happens right before the same big battle. Kratos does say something extremely similar to Atreus though
@@jondoe7036 in my experience with ragnarok, while there’s not anyone that explicitly confronts kratos about it it absolutely pervades his character. no one says “you fucked up” but kratos knows “oooh shit i fucked up”. he’s incredibly remorseful and hesitant in a lot of his actions in order to try to stop that rage from coming out again. not justifying the fact that he killed his family, but it’s absolutely more along the lines of a tragic mythology character.
If I had a nickel for every time a second God of War game could be played on tech that was outdated by the time it was released, I'd have 2 nickels. It's not much, but it's weird that it happened twice.
2 nickels is enough to buy me a knuckle sandwich. It doesn't make sense, but it's all I got.
a few more and hopefully you can buy a second joke
@@TheEvilCheesecake Very updog of you to say this.
@@blarg2429 who is that
@@TheEvilCheesecake I finally find someone who doesn't know the "updog" joke and they respond in a way that still prevents me from getting them with it. 😔
It's a sort of verbal prank. You're supposed to respond "what's updog?", to which the first person replies "not much, what's up with you?"
I just love how intrinsically Jacob can deconstruct any game's theme's and everything around it and explain every detail about the why's and the how's and the humanity of it all.
Amazing, bravo.
There is so much sympathy and honesty that you radiate... in all of your Videos. I even love to watch your sponsored ads. This is absolutely unbelievable in comparison with any other Channel on UA-cam. Your channel is truly my favorite one. Keep up the amazing work.
I enjoy how I don't know what the next video will be. They're not always something I'd expect to enjoy either, and it's refreshing.
I genuinely don't know how he can do it; I cannot even begin to imagine how he can be as sincere and genuine as he is, how you can just tell he cares so much about so much and he's willing to put his heart out into the world (or at least comes off as if he does)
very envious of him for that, it's a really good quality to have
I am glad you didn't go into the Ludonarrative dissonance. For one, as you said, it really doesn't impact things as much as something like uncharted.
However, I think it deserves more credit than that. Yes, violence is a fundamentally a personal action, and so Kratos' violence stands at odds to his God of peace image. But the narrative is very careful about where that violence is directed, how it impacts the characters, and how it affects their goals. No one reads essay YT comments, so the short version is that Kratos is almost always in a defensive position against offensive monsters. When that monster is just a creature doing what any of us would do, Kratos goes out of his way to address that to Atreus ("she is just defending her home" etc). This means Kratos does not use people as things or do violence to reach almost any of his goals, which is a tremendous contrast to the early games where he only reaches his goals with violence.
Again, depending on how you view violence, that may be a meaningless distinction. I think it at least addresses the biggest issue with the old games: violence is a tool to reach satisfaction there, and here, in Ragnarok, we are heartbroken to be forced to use it on Thor--knowing it is completely unnecessary and won't accomplish anything. That's a canyon of difference.
To add to this, I think the contradiction between Kratos’s monstrous approach to combat and his change in personality outside of combat, serves as a testament to him TRYING to change, and clearly struggling to do so. You can see how hard it is for him to sheathe his weapons when facing down someone he was trading blows with seconds prior, even when he knows he must end the cycle of violence; in the previous game you can see how terrified he is of picking up the Blades of Chaos, terrified that he’ll become the old monster again, because he knows himself all too well.
Kratos fears his old self, the self that comes out every time he rips some creature in half or snaps a god’s neck, because he can’t completely control it yet. He’s getting better at restraining it, but it will never go away. So he takes every chance he has to try to keep Atreus from walking down that path, so Atreus never has to go through the struggle that Kratos will experience for the rest of his likely-long life.
It's beautiful how the recent DLC plays so well with this video essay.
God the dlc is soooo good
Looking at the clips, I feel like the wall-climbing scene could convey the scale better and be more grounded in a sense of place, without losing the camera's intimacy, if Atreus ever, at any point, looked down.
He does tho, which was a bit frustrating on Jacobs part IMO. The wall climbing segment has multiple positions where Atreus isnt climbing but either fighting or standing on a platform looking down. Those moments along the climb all contribute to that
I did that myself. We havr the control of the camera so you could do that at any point.
"Fate is just another boss fight" is a great quote. Kind of sums up the appeal of God of War.
Figuratively and literally speaking
What I love most about the Norn’s take on fate is that it aligns really well with Berzerk’s idea of causality. “There is no actual fate, just the choices we make. But those choices can be predicted really really well”.
As someone who’s first god of war game was god of war 2 and subsequently went on to play every single god of war game before the 4th one came out having played the Greek games added massively to the 2 Norse games, it made the Norse games an even better experience honestly
To me it just made the new games feel something like an idea for a Breaking Bad sequel, where Walter White would have somehow gotten away with it all and is living on the other side of the world with a brand new family, where nobody seemingly knows who he is and what he's done well enough to meaningfully call him out on his past actions.
i still have to beat aceusion its hard cuz its bad.
@@Kris-wo4pj that damn elevator level is a pain
its actually nice to see a saga can start and end in the same console generation like GOW the Norse saga
the same with Mass Effect trilogy, Modern Warfare trilogy, Gears of War trilogy,...
dragon age nearly had that. but the final DLC of the last game was next gen exclusive oof
@@amberdixon4200 DA was never meant to be a trilogy
Honestly i think Mass Effect 3 struggled from being developed on past gen, it was too ambitious for those consoles and there were a lot of sacrifices. I understand that locking the final game of the trilogy on next-gen consoles would infuriate the players and make a big scandal, but i just can't help but think how much more grand ME3 could have been on PS4/Xone
God of war 2018 and ragnarok has left the chat
@@diablotry5154 dude, my comment specifically implies them
10:21 "God of War has boatloads of visually striking locations and setpieces."
You just couldn't help yourself, huh?
Personally I believe the cameras compliment the stories. In the original GOW games there was a clear and direct goal and plan. In the newer ones the goal is either full of unexpected events, twists and turns, and in the case of Ragnarök; a heavy ambiguity on what will transpire within the game. The wider camera allows the player to see more and understand their nature within the world and their goal. The newer tighter camera causes the player to focus more on the individual characters journey within themself rather than a physical journey. It also leaves the goal and landscape more ambiguous. Love your stuff mate keep it up.
agreed
Jacob Geller AND Kratos? The God of Lore and the God of War.
the way thor presented his dialogue during the beginning fight was absolutely insane... like i never heard better dialogue and voice acting in that scene, soooo insane, especially the "blood payments" line . not ever since the gutturally freakout scene in the last of us when right before henry put his put his brains on the floor... that scene gives me chills every damn time, they are both 11/10 voice acting imo completely different emotions but the delivery is just un challenged. love to see those few golden moments we are gifted, shit literally lives rent free in my head use those as motivation for my shitty acting career lmaoo. have't started the video yet but i bet this shit will be good, maximum love jacob!, always
Really love all the conversation about the modern look of AAA, which I admit is one of the reasons why it's been so hard for me to get invested into most of them, as their basic visual building blocs seem to be mostly similar, at least from afar --it's hard to differentiate the experiences promised by "prestige games" when they all have a very similar treatment of cinematography. Thank you for the video, it's great!
(also endlessly fascinated by the growing lineup of Henson Facial Hair Looks TM )
I think part of it is everything being like a third person shooter perspective and part of it everything being built with unreal engine (I still find it kind of ridiculous that so many of supposed top developers do not build their own engines) which leads to have every game having similar lighting in their core.
@@PauLtus_B I think it's true to an extent, but a lot of AAA do have their own engine (or their own spin on said engine, often becoming hyper-specialized as the production moves forward), and regardless you can do widely different things in UE5 depending on shader decisions for example, that you can make once you push the system far enough. I think it's mostly a case of this "prestige look" that a lot of artists are trained to replicate and are rewarded for pulling off through portfolio showcases etc, especially when they are still in training. Honestly, for working in the game industry myself (not in anything that involves graphics though, so take my rant with a grain of salt), I believe it's (unfortunately) mostly a conscious and active directorial decision (unfortunately for me, as I would love to see more risks taken overall).
@@MerweenTheWitch May be true as well. I feel the customisation might not really change what these engines do though.
But on the "prestige look" you're right it's probably similar to a lot of 3D animated movies going for "the Pixar look."
I think part of what puts me off lots of these AAA games is how open, big and long they are. Lots of games would be a lot better off without RPG elements and an open world. Like I love lots of non linear games like Dark Souls but sometimes I want to play a game where you just experience the gameplay, art and story.
@@sonwig5186 I don't think there's anything wrong with any of these but I do think a lot of AAA games are just trying to be all these types of games at the same time.
Kinda open world, kinda story driven, kinda rpg leveling.
i can definitely see funnywes's raiden being a video essay bro
Yeah, I kind of think that Ragnarok forgot that you can keep something in one take while changing the angle. Like, pull out a bit further during combat, show off the cool set pieces, you know, you can do a lot more even while living in yourself to a single take camera
It does pull out farther few times, for example when you fight thor both times
The beauty of GoW 2 lies within its simplicity. Its almost elegant when you look back and see that it plays to surprise you and empower you in an arc you want to triumph and it sets it in such a way that you want to succeed as much as Kratos. Its almost poetic how unapologetic the game is and how much fun it results in. GoW2 plays around and focuses on the presentation that keeps changing in encounters that result in epic bosses that ultimately tie a bow in a very replayable and fun game and story you understand and relate to from it being familiar.
With that said, I also think that without GoW2 and the original trilogy, Kratos in the new GoW and GoWR the impact of growth and a deeper arc would not land as hard as it does. Growing up with this IP and Kratos become more relatable to those of us that played the games. I love how more complex GoW is now to tell better stories with deeper characters. But I do miss the spectacle and grandeur of every set piece in previous trilogy. I hope if they keep going they can manage to marry the best of both worlds.
Jacob have you played Hellblade: Senua’s Sacrifice? besides being enthralling for me, the first introduction to Hel is the most incredible sense of “big person” i’ve experienced in a game.
I have a feeling I'd enjoy that series. I should give it a try.
Bro that game gave me nightmares jaja
I feel like the dedication to one continuous shot in the new God of War duology really hurt its ability to tell a well-paced story. It works for something like Dead Space, where the game is entirely set on a relatively enclosed space station. But for a big, sprawling epic that takes place across nine dimensions, too much time ends up being spent just showing the characters walking to the interesting stuff.
Yeah, it's good for conveying things like feeling of claustrophobia and sense of tension or dread, but I fail to see what it's supposed to add to a game about traversing large open landscapes as a muscle bound godman, who we're meant to believe had single-handedly toppled the Greek pantheon.
@@jondoe7036 That quote from Kratos about telling the story in a single shot is funny because he's referring to Aristotle's idea of Three Unities that good theatre should follow, which is something you could reasonably expect him to know as an ancient Greek (with some reasonable blurring of historical sequence) and suggests he's more literate than the audience might think... but while the game is using its cinematography to follow the Unity of Time (the events of the play should not be significantly longer than the performance) it clearly doesn't stick to the Unity of Place (the play should not portray an area significantly larger than the theatre - which in Greek drama often led to people running onstage to tell everyone about exciting events the audience didn't get to see).
For me it easily contributed to the sense of adventure. That connective tissue interspersed by Mimirs stories are what honestly define the new duology for me
@@explainDis Did the sense of adventure also carry over to the menu screens, whenever you'd need to change and upgrade your weapon&gear or use the fast travel system?
Pardon the snark, but since the game ultimately couldn't even be bothered to consistently embrace the idea when it comes to nitty-gritty interface stuff, I really don't see why they couldn't have loosened up on it in other areas as well, when pacing, gameplay and even presentation at times would have blatantly benefitted from that. Not to mention how it actually stands to hurt immersion, if you stop and think about how everything in a long form adventure has to happen in one continuous stream of events and what that would entail. There's no usual "they just did it offscreen" excuse for basic stuff, like why do characters seemingly never sleep, eat, relieve themselves, or what have you, for one.
@@jondoe7036Weird that you found the need to be snarky at all. Sharing opinions should not immediately trigger that reaction in you and its clear that you already have biases that aren’t even taking into account the clear points made in the video in favour of the camera, Its almost like you didnt even watch the video at all. The game accepted the fact that when dying and pausing that the one take cut will be broken but thats like complaining that not being able to beat the game in one sitting breaks that effect. The immersive properties of the camera shine in any long stretch of gameplay or story. When the game is running providing that uninterrupted view of the characters actions provides a sense of place and realism to the world. It actually feels like you are traveling the realms as opposed to cutting away and giving a much more “tableu” or “gamey” feel. The environments need to make more sense and the placement of enemies has to more naturally flow with the geography. Everything becomes more interconnected and more thought goes into the moment to moment action/story because of that. It allows for more time with the characters dialogue and MOST IMPORTANTLY it allows for more variety and complexity in the action cinematography. Instead of hitting a bosses toes we can now have proper 1 vs. 1s where contextual grabs, blocks, and transition animations feel weighty and meaningful. Theres a reason why the norse fights have a lot more going on choreograohy wise. Actual wrestling, actual hand to hand, sensible movements between actions, and an up close view of it all. Instead of relying on making enemies and bosses bigger and bigger with more verbose use of chain slams we can have Kratos wrestling a bear and taking the bites right on the shoulder where we can see as opposed to some long distant observer position. In the end all the action is more memorable for it. Baldur and Thors first encounters have more dynamic and complex choreography than the old games having you slam the face of hades for the 100th time.
God of War Ragnarok did things that few other videogames had ever tried. God of War 2 did things that only videogames could ever do. You can have a preferred style, but it seems a shame to abandon one in pursuit of the other.
no other game has tried to be a hack and slash character game?
Wow. Remarkable job describing one of my favorite series of all time, both in story and it’s epic perspective. My brother almost died from a car accident, and I’m going to show this to him because he is also just as much of a fan as I am. I’m confident that he will be just as amazed as I am when he sees this, and he’s going to be ever grateful to be alive.
This is a really good video. I would only like to touch on one point though, regarding your viewpoint on the contradiction between Kratos' actions in cinematics and in gameplay. I didn't really think much of it as "narrative dissonance" because throughout the entire two games, It has always stuck to me that Kratos has learned to channel and control his rage instead of letting it run wild like in the previous games. For me this explains why he still has the same brutality and violence he did during the old games, and it's because he still uses that same brutal rage, just with much more focus, control and instinct.
I agree. I left a comment as well, but I found that Kratos accepting that as a God, he still had a responsibility to help people because of the powers he was granted, and by using those powers to free the nine realms he becomes a god that is worshipped.
He only ever fights to defend now. The only person he ever sets out to kill in the norse games is heimdall because he is told by future seeing beings that the man intends to kill his son. Also, most of the enemies are wild animals that attack first. The first game has a whole conversation about it.
Jacob is really out here stunningly producing entire video essays about my random gaming thoughts 🔥🔥
The man, the myth, the legend returns to bestow upon us gifts to savor
The OG camera system is superior. Not only do we see the scale of the whole world we are in, but the game's art style is shown in a better way
New Jacob Geller video. i wonder how he is gonna make me feel existentially terrified this time
We're safe this time I think
you really fuckin nailed it man. the whole package coming together at the end is so satisfying. keep it up!!!!
Wow. The fact that both games answer the same philosophical question not just through their story, but through their gameplay? Your analysis consistently impresses me. Hope the channel has a good year this year!
I do notice that when I played the game. The way the light shines on characters on cutscenes is like watching a play
Excellent essay, as always. I wasn’t smitten with GoW R’s story execution but you’ve given me a lot to think on. I think you bring up a good point about Kratos and combat in Ragnarok as well. He really should have put the weapons down to truly change his archetype. As it is, he still wins through brute force alone, he just won’t land the killing blow now.
It really is a great story with a ton going on. At first it may seem messy but the moving parts have a ton of place in the narrative plot wise and thematically
@@explainDis Not to plug my own channel but I’m working on a video series about Ragnarok’s story structure and I have a much less…positive take on it.
If you want to experience ludonarrative dissonance, then go play The Last of Shit 2. Trying to tie Ragnarök in comparison with this garbage in that regard is unnecessary and vile.
@@user-mu8dm4rk7g agreed with your point, disagreed with the way you expressed it.
"Won't land the killing blow"
What?
"Spoilers for the whole series
" got it Jacob Geller I will now download and play every GoW"
as you should really
@@thomas-cr4vySadly it’s a console exclusive so yeah
@@legitplayin6977 yeah, i guess that's true. You could always pirate it tho
“Putters and murmurs” get Jacob Geller on Blank Check when
I heard him say it and immediately thought "He's one of us!"
The thing with Odin is his willingness to avoid his fate at Ragnarok is what causes Ragnarok in the first place.
He knows he dies, it's inevitable. Santa Monica's rendition changes a few things but in the original mythos, Odin chains Fenrir, which makes the wolf hate Odin. Like how Freyr gives up his sword and dies by Surtr and Tyr sacrifices his sword arm only to die to Garmr. Thor is a drunk and dies by Jormungandr, Loki is chaotic and Heimdallr can see everything (they kill each other). The way everything lines up makes this pantheon perfect for a character like Kratos to have his own reworked story about growth.
you genuinely write some of the most eloquent and captivating essays on youtube
I've been trying to figure out how to describe how different the games feel, and after watching this video your breakdown has helped me come to a conclusion.
GoW 1-3 feels like a story you'd read about in legends. It's an epic tale of a man selling his to a cruel god, and suffering because of it. He hacks, slashes and destroys everything in his path to get his vengeance, and finally fells the deity that caused his problems. And yet he still lives with the consequences of his actions, despite them being influenced by Ares. Then Zeus gets paranoid, kills Kratos, Kratos says "NO" to dying, kills more people, kills the Fates, goes back in time to say "NO" to dying AGAIN, and prepares to kill the rest of Olympus (which he succeeds in doing.)
It's a tale of monsters and gods, an epic tale the likes of which will go down in legend forever.
Then GoW4/GoWR releases...
The story is completely different. It's a story about family and the lengths you'll go to to protect it. It's also a story about confronting the past with many of the characters serving as reflections of Kratos (Atreus' attitude after learning of his Godhood, Freya trying to protect Baldur leading him to resent her, and Thor being an almost mindless monster that destroys everything around him) and how "we must be better, for the sake of our children."
It's the story of a monster becoming a man, regaining the humanity he lost while on his rampage in Greece.
This is a story about people trying their hardest to be the best they can. Some succeed, and some don't, but they keep *trying.*
Sorry for the long-winded comment, but I had to get this out somewhere, even if it's just for my own sake XD
i miss when the video title was “the tale of two god of war twos” because it reminds me of Garfield
I love GOW's interpretation of Odin, after doing a bunch of crack research about norse mythos, i appreciated odin for the god that he is and that he isn't the generic god rulers like Zeus and God with a capital G. according to Norse lore; he was a knowledge seeker, so he won't be this big buff guy, he's gonna be a calculated nerd, I like how GOW went ham on it and made Odin what he really is, a manipulator. I never played the GOW series, i always watched it like a movie and i always loved how they make the gods what they are instead of making them what mainstream media is, Zeus is an ass, and Odin is a nerd.
I was procrastinating the end of Ragnarok and you putting this video out made me rush to finish it so I could watch this. I've played all the games. I love what you captured in them.
i loved how gow ragnarok plays with the idea of the self fulfilling prophecy, because it comes right out and says it's less of a prophecy and more of a probability based on the nature of the people in question.
it's like knowing someone so well you know how they would react in a given situation or recognizing the patterns in a system to the point where you can say with 100% certainty what the next thing will based on the previous results of said pattern.
it's less like magic and more like . . . math. and in order to get a different pattern, you can't just change a variable, the whole system needs to change, because the system itself is only set to put out one specific kind of pattern.
13:50 I picked up on the “theatrical” homages in the game as well. Two specific examples is during the scene after we free Freyr all the characters react to something offscreen first (what could be thought of as off-stage) and in the ending when Atreus quite literally “exits stage left”
As someone who also aspires to write about games and art and culture, I find Jacobs videos hugely inspirational. Whenever I’m in a creative slump he or Noah Gervais can always get the ol’ juices flowin again
This popped up in my suggested, first time seeing a video of yours. Script, editing and fantastic points made me hit like without hesitation. But your voice had me hitting subscribe before I was a minute in. Great stuff man.
Love this video, great explanation on how both games tackle the subject of fate
I’m really not a game player but I do appreciate all the thought that goes into the production of games and I am pleased to have essays like this so I can appreciate some of the artistic process even though actually playing through them isn’t my interest. Thanks Jacob!
Thanks for feedback❤️🎁.
Drop me😊a message🎊on Discord✅..
Yet again you make a video on a topic i had no prior interest or knowledge in, and yet again i am completely entranced all the way through.
Love this channel.
A good part in this video is noticing bits of additional information in the subtitles, theyre small but really add to the charm (ps3 got no games)
its funny because almost every single PS4 game has been ported to PC so technically PS4 has no games either lol.
15:10
"was it choice, or are they just following the path laid out before them?" 🥶🥶🥶
Thanks very much for another masterfully written video. You’ve been my favourite writer and essayist (and favourite creator on the platform) for a while now, and I would never have watched a video on this topic if it weren’t from you. I’m glad I did.
Just wanna say thanks for all the content over the years, Jacob. You're one of my favorite content creators and I always crave for more after finishing your newest essay. Keep it up as long as it makes you happy.
I’m a simple man of simple tastes, I see a video by Jacob Geller, I click it
the start of the video is pretty much why I call the first beard kratos game "god of war 4" as it should be called, also the camera in this game is for me one of many signs how the constant drive for realism can actually harm games in certain areas.
16:47 same and in general prime example that boss fight doesn't always have to be long or difficult to be entertaining.
your depth and descriptiveness is so admirable and appreciated
Jacob, you are one of if not the best storytellers on UA-cam. A lot of these points are missed on me on my own playthroughs. I appreciate your effort and research in these and I'm surprised that a publisher doesn't hire you for something phenomenal to look forward to the way Michael has from Lessons From the Screenplay. I look forward to the next video expanding my understanding and love for videogames!
always great to see a god of war review come with my jacob facial hair update
Great to watch waiting for my basketball tournament games to start. The point of taking a part a body video was great and just helped me write an essay.
Watching the end of gow ragnarok when Kratos finds out he is worthy of praise and worship killed me, it felt like he accepted he can be good
Bravo man! This was excellent. I love the original games and the action genre in general as well as the new games. It's fascinating to see a series actually grow and change with it's audience. Great video all around.
Another absolute mfkin banger. Theres never a minute in any of your videos not worth a million bucks
This had the most well-done ad segue you’ve ever done imo. Great video, great ending. Thanks for making this.
I added this to my watch later. I ALREADY know it’s gonna be a banger. First thing I’m doing over spring break is finishing Ragnarok and then queueing up this video
Odin is so unpredictable, that at the end of god of war ragnarok I expected to fight Thor, I totally did, but when I started fighting Odin I was totally caught off guard, I genuinely did not expect to actually have to fight him.
It's funny that alot of people misjudged Odin.
The first thing he did the second he was born was kill his father and take his flesh and made 9 planets out of it and took his title.
He also killed Groa as easy as he breathed.
Giants are essentially the original gods of the Norse mythology, they have powers/abilities and responsibilities, so he too is a God killer.
9:32
I've done some work with voice over and video editing myself. Not as much as you, but enough to appreciate how tedious it can be to have to try and pick pieces from different recordings and different versions of lines to get the inflection, tone, and timing right.
It often leaves behind little audio artifacts that you can detect; a change in pitch or sound profile as we switch from one recording of a line to another. But rather than being an unwelcome distraction, I find it a comfort to know that even the great go through the same struggles I deal with myself.
Thank you for your efforts, sir. They are appreciated.
Thanks for feedback❤️🎁.
Drop me😊a message🎊on Discord✅
Excellent.
How you wrap these up to be so satisfying, is a gift. (thank you.)
I'm going to have to rewatch this because that handlebar mustache just blasted everything out of my brain like a nuke.
I really like this video. Portrays what I like about both of these games and both eras of God of War as a whole while also offering a critical perspective of what both eras do well and not so well.
My hope for the future is hopefully for them to mesh the two camera angles and styles. If it’s either an Atreus game or a Kratos one, I think it would benefit from that.
Great video as always. About the camera, it bothered me at the begining but I came to the conclusion that it was a conscious decision that permeates the whole game, that the characters are older and wiser, and when you get older you go to new places and meets new people, but not with the same energy and intensity, now you see nuance in everything, you enjoy the little things. You stop being a force in the world to become a part of it, still capable of doing changes but at small movements instead of big, flashy actions.
Also kudos to Odin's actor, Richard Schiff. The man did a spetacular job, he stole every scene he was in it. I heard it was his grandson who convinced him to take the job, so thanks kid you did great too.
The contrasts in this video were amazing. I love the fact that you even put attention in this contrast using the music. Chapeau.
I only have played the original GoW back in PS2 times, but i stayed and listened all your dissertation on those two games, just because how incredibly well you speak. You are one of my favourite comunicators. I love what you say and how you say it. Sublime
When can we all admit that Ludo-narrative Dissonance is basically a videogame analysis meme
Gonna use this opportunity to say absolutely love every video you made
theres always something so amazing abt this guy's video essays. like, by the end everything just makes sense. he communicates a message clearly that im even now struggling to put into my own words. i havent played any god of war games yet and im not sure if thats ever going to change but man, does this video make for a very compelling argument to just play it, esp when jacob highlights how much this franchise has contributed to game development and history over the years.
its not ludonarrative at that point, when its the game's history being supported by its story and gameplay or vice versa, i think itd be sth else entirely...
I got into god of war very very recently (just this year in fact) thanks to the vita ports, and so far I have been in love with the sagas; I breezed through 1 and am now fighting the mole cerberus and throughout one of my favorite things about the experience has been something you pointed out as a negative: how "simple" and straightforward the story is. The thing is, I like it precisely because, by being that way, I feel like it mimicks greek mythology itself. Those tales didn't have huge plot twists, the characters weren't hugely multi-dimensional; and I think it's very remarkable how GoW lets you play as this... "intruder", this guy with a plan that completely wrecks those old tales. It's very satisfying, in my opinion. Just my take though, great video (I avoided spoilers by skipping a couple of parts, I'll rewatch it once I beat GOW 2)
did you finish the series
Camera is absolutely a choice in new GoW. You can even find some interview with Madmax dev who said Cory wanted to implement it back then when he was working on Madmax game.
Also, Tomb Raider as well
And it was the wrong choice
Amazing video as always
You have such a unique way of doing video essays and I absolutely love it
I've never been early to a JG video before. This dudes videos really mean a lot to me and have made a huge difference in my life ❤
I'm so glad you acknowledge Resistance: Fall of Man because its one of those games who's existence feels like a false memory and idk if I've ever actually heard another person talk about it
OG God of war 2 is by far my favorite. The story is incredible.
15:13 wow I like how it came around to that line, like the comparison with the two games fate and choice
Over coming fate through will and force and learning from that and overcoming fate through understanding fate is not a thing
Odin might be the best villian I've seen in a video game in a long time. So good every scene, and all of his dialogue takes a second meaning after you beat the game
This video really put into words a lot of the problems I felt in Ragnarok that I couldn't quite put my finger on
All throughout Ragnarok there are references to Kratos in his homeworld murdering everything in his path and fighting these HUGE battles and how he has moved past that version of himself. As someone who enjoys the story I think that's really neat and a cool redemption(ish) story for Kratos
However, every time they mention that I go "That was really really fun though!"
The fights with Thor and Baldur where Kratos is flying all over the Norse landscape is cool and all and the Nidhogg and Heimdall fights also stuck out but when I got to the end of the game and it was just Odin flying two feet of the ground with a spear that shoots lazers I was REALLY underwhelmed. In the shift to this more grounded story there were elements of the original games that were SO good and made the series what it is that were either abandoned or didn't translate well into the new style
Ahh you managed to articulate something I found so wrong with nu god of war. I kept saying there was no spectacle no cool epic locations.... There were but the camera just did not care to show it.
Can't believe I missed a new Jacob, gotta hop on that asap 🔥🔥🔥🔥
"Was this truly a creative choice, or were Santa Monica merely following the path that was laid out for them?"
I WAS ONLY OBEYING ORDERS!
While I agree that the scenes in the PS2 era of God of War are more striking/memorable than the scenes from the current reboot of God of War.... I have to say just.. does anyone remember what it was like to play those games for the first time? I mean actually remember, go out and find someone who hasn't played them and watch them try to and then remember getting equally frustrated and killed by the camera. They were unplayable at times in fact VERY often. It's like when people romanticize the old Resident Evil fixed cameras like that is how all RE games should be done forever and how good it was and guys? That made those games almost impossible to actually enjoy playing.
ive been killed more in nu god of war than old god of war because in old god of war i dont have to babysit the camera and can see the enemies at all times