Clerics bring that "I know what I bring to the table, so I'm not afraid to dine alone" energy to the multi classing discussion. Such a good frame they don't need much help.
I think it’s worth noting that with a Ranger/Cleric MC you get access to both Goodberry and Healing Spirit without the Druid’s armor penalty. So a Life Cleric/Ranger dip actually make for an excellent healer-gish. Edit: Okay nevermind you saved that for the end of the video.
I have an AL Beastmaster Ranger 5/Life Cleric 1 and it is very rewarding. I giggled inside the first time I saw someone's face when I told them I heal the whole party for 75 hitpoints with Healing Spirit😆 Plus it's fun to play what most people think is a weak and broken class but do more damage than them with more survivability. He's a stout halfling who rides his pteranadon, Terry, and uses a shield and lance. It's amazing how many AL modules have encounters that have nothing to deal with a flying PC with reach and Flyby. The only downside is Terry's low HP but I have the Mounted Combatant feat to protect him as well as all of my crazy healing. The most fun, though, is doing my best Steve Irwin impression and RPing his nature loving bushwacker side.
@@M0ebius Eh... I'd say I have enough healing. It wouldn't fit for the character and I want more hitpoints for my beast. But yeah, from a pure build standpoint, you could cast Healing Spirit and basically have part of the Oath of the Ancients Paladin level 20 ability, healing 10 HP every round.
ATinyWaffle You wouldn’t, but you could. AND you can upcast it once for 17HP per turn. You can also heal allies when applicable. Also the spell lasts 10 rounds and most combats last 3-5, so you’d have enough healing to top everyone off after each fight.
forge Cleric/warwizard has nice ac with plate armor, 18+2(shield)+2 from forge+2 reaction ac from war wizard = 24, pretty good for spiritguardian tank! Warcaster and +4 saves will make concentrations pretty easy too, also only needs 2 lvls of wiz, and gets find familiar and booming blade
I can’t tell you how helpful this was. I was doubting my Ranger 5/Cleric 6 choices until I saw this video. Now, I really think I’ve done okay. Keep up the excellent work.
One thing you didn't mention regarding Fighter, that I think is really important, is that it's a way for the Cleric to access Booming Blade (Eldritch Knight gets cantrips), which is pretty much a required damage fix for all weapon using clerics at tier 2 and especially going into tier 3. Sorcerer/Warlock/Wizard also grant access to it, which saves you the feat (or the racial requirement) it normally costs to access it.
24:00 for warlock, you also gain access to cantrips you don't otherwise have access to without a feat (specifically melee cantrips), spells you don't otherwise have access to (Sleep, Shield, hex, charm person, faerie fire, tasha's hideous laughter), and if you are willing to dip up to level 2 or 3 - superior darkvision if your race doesn't have darkvision, ritual casting from all classes, maximized self healing and an improved familiar, 2 spells on a short rest (level 1 or level 2 depending on levels 2-3 dip), as well as other roleplay options via alternate invocations, and the level 1 patron abilities, and some other choice level 2 spells like misty step, mirror image, etc. All while accepting you are delaying your spell progression by 2 levels, but depending on how deep your campaign will go that might not matter - level 4 spells for several cleric subclasses and just in general seem fairly "meh" to me.
Just built a cleric/fighter of level 7/5. War/champion. Can attack 3 times per turn or twice with a bonus action spell. Access to action surge (technically can attack 5 times in one turn once). AC of 20 with a shield and full plate. If an attack deals a 19 it can also crit. A few other neat things in there. The party already has 2 other people that can heal, 2 that can revive, and this cleric has that too but is able to also deal some damage with super nice perks on top of it. It's kind of kind a more complicated paladin I guess, but with some bonus features like action surge and the 19 critical it makes them pretty unique, versatile, and still quite potent. Probably not the best thing in the world but damn it's cool.
i have a level 4 bard who just today got in contact with a sea goddess and unexpectedly leveled up, and became a bard cleric. it was so surprising and insane, and honestly to me it doesnt matter a lot if bard cleric isnt the best multiclass, its a milestone in my characters life and made for an awesome character development scene
Being a Bard and getting a dip in Cleric can be really good. That sounds exciting (especially Life or Peace). It just doesn't work well for a Cleric to dip a Bard level- it doesn't add as much value.
I know you don't look at UA, but currently there's a UA Druid circle that has an option at level 2 to let you use wildshape to treat 9s and below as 10s for concentration checks (among other things). Almost a must-dip, especially paired with Warding Bond.
For those wondering, Warding Bond cast on yourself makes you take half damage (rounded down) twice, as well as a +1 to AC and concentration checks. Taking the damage in two parts means if you would normally take 43 damage (normally a DC 21 check), you take 21 twice, for two DC 10 checks.
Clear Sky Guardian The Warding Bond trick is actually pretty clever. But probably unnecessary since you already auto-pass DC10s. But yeah, that Star Druid is a sweet dip - you get tons of stuff for 2 levels.
SharkForce You appear to be missing MY point, which is that an overwhelming majority of your concentration saves are DC10s, so Warding Bond is just icing on the cake for corner cases. Also it’s fine if you disallow it as a DM, and I suspect that could be the RAI. But the RAW of the spell DEFINITELY allows you target yourself. Touch ranged spells says “Some spells can target only a creature (including you) that you touch.” Targetting Yourself section says “If a spell targets a creature of your choice, you can choose yourself, unless the creature must be hostile or specifically a creature other than you.” So this is, in fact, legal, although you can house rule as you see fit with the understanding that it is a house rule.
@@M0ebius The fun of RAW vs RAI. Targeting yourself rules on page 204 also say "If a spells targets a creature of your choice" where as Warding Bond only says "willing creature". Many other spells use the actual "creature of your choice" wording so I can clearly see a RAW argument for disallowing. Also the final part on page 204 does have a line saying unless it must be a creature other than you. I am not aware of any spells that call that out explicitly? There may be some as I do not know every spell but this would certainly seem to apply to the rest of the text of Warding Bond. That said if you have a DM who would let you do this it is a neat way around difficult Concentration saves as the expense of an extra spell slot and if one of my players came up with this in the middle of a session I might let them get away with it.
Lyracian Xi Is the willing creature in this case is the target of the spell? And do you choose that creature? Yes and yes, so I don’t really see the RAW argument you’re making. Also Warding Bond doesn’t preclude yourself in the spell text (and yes some spells say that explicitly but I dont recall off the top of my head). That said, it is a creative use of the spell and ultimately not that powerful (like I said it matters rarely for the overwhelming majority of concentration saves), so personally I dont see a reason for banning it. I did however came up with a build that would really maximize Warding Bond - Divine Soul 3 Hexblade 3 Lore Bard 6 Life Cleric 1. You start VHuman Sorcerer for CONsave proficiency and Warcaster for an ironclad concentration, then you take Healing Spirit via Magical Secrets, Gift of the Everliving Ones via Chain Pact, and Twinned Spell and Warding Bond via Divine Soul. You twin the Warding Bond on two allies outside combat (1 hour non-concentration), then with Disciple of Life + Gift of the Everliving Ones + upcasted lvl 3-5 Healing Spirit, you heal yourself for 17-31 HP per turn in combat using your bonus action while you Eldritch Blast with your action. There is only statistically a 1% chance you could drop a DC10 concentration check, but you have Favored By the Gods from Divine Soul to bump that roll (or worst case just Quicken another Healing Spirit with no loss in action economy).
Was excited that you mentioned forge cleric and fighter together because my "main" character that I play is that! If you're going primarily as a spellcaster (and why wouldn't you, spells are insanely powerful and useful!) then the small dip into fighter makes sense and the starting payout is huge! My character had some differences that were based on the continuing story of the character but result in a still quite impressive build. The character was a warlord in 4e and, since there is no true equivalent other than battlemaster in 5e (poor banneret...) then it makes an obvious choice. For cleric, Forge is also an obvious fit as my character (a half-elf) was a follower of Moradin and because Forge Cleric is a powerful combat and utility subclass. The split I chose is Cleric 8/Fighter 11 and for the 20th level I get the capstone of choosing between 5th-level magic (cleric) or an ASI/Feat (Fighter). Fighter nets some awesome features including con save proficiency, action surge, maneuvers, indomitable, 3 attacks per action, and the rest of the general strengths of the fighter. Cleric nets us its impressive spell repertoire, the added offensive and/or defensive capacity of the Forge Cleric, Some great healing and utility options, a channel divinity feature that is only limited by your creative ability (and the pesky GP limit), destroy undead, fire resistance, and Divine/Blessed Strike. You're not the best caster and you're not the best fighter, but you are good at both and can take hits to boot!
My life Cleric took two levels of Divination Wizard, mostly because I was pissed that our ACTUAL Wizard only wants to blast and never took Find Familiar or any of the other good Wizard spells that don't go BOOM. Well, I had no idea that Shield was so much fun on a mid level Cleric trying to not lose Concentration on that up-cast Spirit Guardians. And Banishment with Portent - I actually felt bad for our DM the only time I used that.... I really felt like I was a bit of a dick, mostly because I don't think he realized that the two could work together the way they do.
Shout out to storm sorcer. Extra 10 feet of free movment works great with spirit guardians! Great way to add action economy. Repositioning is another way to protect your concentration Also Aasimar instead of half elf for char casters!!! Even you said, the facials are so good! Gives a bonus action use round 1
I actually disagree with the notion that the sorcerer 1/Cleric X will have a weak level 1. While you're likely going to have to sit *far* in the backline, the two best combat spells at level 1, Magic Missile and Sleep, don't care about your spellcasting modifier at all. The sorcerer also gets Light Crossbow proficiency, so they can be relatively effective shooting off their crossbow (which is what a cleric will be doing at level 1 most of the time anyways)
Biggest issue with this is that when you get to higher levels both of those spells are no longer as useful as they once were and as a sorcerer you cannot relearn them because you are not taking additional sorcerer levels. Therefore i would be taking spells with a long shelf life like shield, absorb elements or featherfall. Use a crossbow at level 1, grab the law affinity for bless and just be a support till level 2 when you can get guiding bolt using wisdom which will see you through. I would also like to argue the merits of 3 levels of sorcerer simply for meta magic options, remembering that you can still burn spellslots to fuel you tiny sorcery point pool. Subtle spell as a trickery domain cleric could be a lot of fun. Also i find at higher levels that my level 1 slots don't see a lot of use so burning them for sorcery points it pretty valuable to subtle spell higher level spells or empower them. Also a low level twinned guiding bolt is no joke.
On a side note, is anyone else surprised that there isn't a college of gospel or something like that for the bard with access to some cleric spells and maybe the ability to heal a creature with your inspiration or something.... Could be interesting since bards already tend to be more supportive casters I find in my limited experience.
I dipped 1 lvl of war cleric on a kensei monk and thought it worked really well and had a great variety of options. War priest essentially gives you 2-4 extra ki points for bonus weapon attacks/long rest, divine favour can add 1d4 for all attacks which can add up to 3d4 / round and you’re not using a bonus action to switch targets. Shield of faith can boost your ac in the front line or bless yourself and others so the unarmed strikes/monk weapons are more likely to hit.
I actually dig Gloomstalker on Trickery domain as a 3 level dip. It gives a good toolbox to your skills, Abilities, and options outside of the Cleric list including access to some decent Ranger spells
Going 5 levels for extra attack and level 2 ranger spells is pretty solid, when you hit level 8 cleric you get the extra 1d8 damage per attack, couple that with crossbow expert or polearm master and that's 3 attacks per round while concentrating on spirit guardians.
I'm a huge fan of Trickery 3 Swashbuckler 17, but it's much more a rogue with access to Bless, Spiritual Weapon, Mirror Image, healing, medium armor, shields, and stealth abilities/spells than it is a cleric who also does rogue stuff.
Something I thought to be very cool for a Cleric/Bard Multi-class: -Any race with bonuses to charisma and wisdom. -Start off with either class as you please for preferred saving throws. -1 level in knowledge domain, and put the rest in lore college. I found this build to make an excellent knowledge skillmonkey. I was able to eventually get large bonuses due to expertise and extra proficiency boons due to the subclass-specific properties. And, concerning your cleric dip, please feel free to choose spells that are not reliant on a high wisdom score. In addition, I found the build to also make a great party face outside of combat, and a great buff or utility caster in combat. Please feel free to sprinkle in a few offensive spells in addition to spiritual weapon and spirit guardians. However, please note: Albeit, it was due to personal preferences, it is likely your physical stats will suffer as a result. Strength will likely be your dump stat and dexterity may not reach 14 for medium armor depending on how you move your standard array scores. I certainly had to be mindful of battlefield positioning as a typical squishy caster would have to operate.
I played a ranger 6/ cleric 14 in one of my campaigns that was a vampire hunter with a crossbow. Very effective and thematic. lot's of fun too! One thing you didn't mention about sorcerer, wizard and warlock is that they give you access to booming blade, which is great for melee cleric builds.
Love my life cleric with a 3 level dip in divine soul sorcerer and metamagic adept feat. This character is basically a field medic... And here is the setup. Twin warding bond with a character. Gives both of you a +1 to AC and saving throws plus resistance to all damage. Also my DM has ruled that because I take damage if my tethered partner takes an attack and I'm within the 60 ft range of that tether I can twin shield onto myself and thusly my tether. Gives us a total of +6 to AC for that round and resistance to any damage we would receive if we fail. Use this tactic with my fighter often. He is dang near unhittable from an attack. Works great against non spell casters. We generally bum rush the threat and surround him to give us advantage too. I'll usually start up spirit guardians to concentrate on at the highest level I can afford and spend spend my action trying to grapple. Then heal when necessary. It's a lot of fun
One thing you sort of brushed up against is using the Cleric as a dip, for armor, WIS saves and CD or lvl1 features. There are a number of domains that give some handy benefits for a 1 or 2 level dip, to another primary class. Now, the ability score challenges are still there. But most people try not to tank WIS anyway. So it's less burdensome. Thinking of 1 level of Arcana for a Rogue, to get BB, armor, and a couple spells. Then, if he goes AT, he's got a head start on slots and spells too. Or a 2 level dip into Knowledge Domain for a skill monkey. Or a 1 level dip into Light Domain for an Evoker. There may not be a lot of ways to improve a Cleric, compared to single class. But a little Cleric can benefit all sorts of other classes.
@@sharkforce8147 yes and no... this was the Cleric MC guide, and while I wouldn't call the overall character a Cleric with just a dip, it would absolutely be worth mentioning that that 1 or 2 level dip can be an amazing addition to many builds. Maybe not quite as much as 1 Hexblade, but close, the Cleric dip is a top tier option for enhancing a MC'd character.
Really appreciate this guide! It gave me some thoughts on multi-classing for future characters (as my current has middling Cha and Int). Unfortunately, the Wis-primary classes just don’t seem like good candidates for current character’s concept. Probably would have taken a level in rogue for skills though if someone else in the party hadn’t just done the same thing.
I just made a cleric named Maya. Aasimar, acolyte background. Dex based medium armour cleric: 16 dex, 16 wisdom, 14 con. Dump int, char and str 1st level fighter, for proficiency on con saves, the protection fighting style (wield shield and use reaction so ally within 5 feet of you has disadvantage on being attacked), martial weapon proficiency, grab a rapier 2 levels peace cleric, get the bless as a subclass feature, cast bless on top of it. Give allies a lot of d4 to roll each and every turn. Maya can use Peace subclass feature to get 30 feet of movement that doesn't trigger opportunity attacks, any ally she runs within 5 feet of is healed 2d6. 3 levels of rogue for bonus action dash, disengage. Take Mastermind so she can bonus action give the Help action to an ally within 30 feet, reskin it as her praying "Selune guides your hand" and blessing her ally to make an attack roll with advantage. Then she takes all the rest of her levels in cleric. Gets war caster (also has proficiency in consitution saves from 1st level dip in fighter) Gets bonus 1d8 radiant damage once a turn on melee attacks at lv 8 cleric +2 wisdom at level 8. 18 wisdom. Her character is built around protecting allies, giving out buffs, and due to her buffs and protective abilities, allies are encouraged to stand within 5 feet of her. Which will mean she can automatically sneak attack without having to gain advantage because the sneak attack target has two enemies standing next to them. Actions at level 12 when everything comes fully online Action: single attack with a rapier +1d4 to hit, 1d8+3 damage +2d6 sneak attack damage +1d8 radiant damage (blessed strikes and level 8), +12 extra radiant damage one attack per turn for one minute (10 rounds) (using level 3 Protector Aasimar feature once per long rest) Action dodge, while keeping concentration on Spiritual Guardians. Action to cast a spell, usually buff spells, Channel Divinity action to disengage+ run 30 feet+ heal 2d6+wis mod any ally she runs within 5 feet of as one action. Bonus action: Disengage, Dash, Healing Word, Help action with 30 foot range (Mastermind Rogue) to give ally advantage on an attack roll Reaction: Ally within 5 feet has disadvantage to be hit on an attack roll, or teleport as a reaction to bonded ally when they get damaged and take their damage for them (Peace cleric feature) She has a twin brother, who's also an Aasimar in the party who is a Twilight cleric. Because of the broken Twilight Peace cleric combo, I've decided that anytime someone uses their reaction to teleport and take damage on behalf of another party member, then the damage hits directly to their HP rather than temp HP I feel really good about her build, she is really a team player, and makes everyone else on the team stronger because she is there to assist them, and help her allies to shine
With the Intelligence/Wisdom multiclass characters, Vedalken make an excellent race, since they get +2 Intelligence and +1 Wisdom, plus a bunch of other nice stuff. You can role-play it like a Spock character who's come from another dimension, or plane, or something.
This series makes me want to play a High Elf Sorcerer 1/Cleric X multiclass. Start as a Divine Soul then move into the Trickery domain. Use your first ASI to pick up Fey Teleportation. Now you’ve got a cleric with a ton of useful cantrips and access to Shield, Absorb Elements, Mirror Image, Misty Step, Pass without Trace, Dimension Door, and Polymorph.
8:00 on a grid, the size of the Spirit Guardians does not depend on the size of the caster. The rules on page 251 of the DMG are clear: "Choose an intersection of squares or hexes as the point of origin of an area of effect, then follow its rules as normal." Regardless of your size, you choose only one intersection, from which the effect originates. From the PHB (278), the effect of Spiritual Guardians is a circular Self (15-foot radius). The affected area should therefore not be a square - "If an area of effect is circular and covers at least half a square, it affects that square." (page 251).
If you choose "an intersection of squares" when casting Spirit Guardians then it wouldn't even be centered on you. One side would only extend 10ft from you and the other 15ft.
This is a case of specific over general. The spell description says, "They flit around you to a distance of 15 feet for the duration." Therefore, that's what it does.
The only time I've seen a Monk pair even slightly well with a Cleric is by taking War Domain at Level 1, then shot gunning Monk the rest of the way so you can get the Divine Favor spell which, actually shines, well, glimmers, pretty well on the multiple attacks of the Monk.
Late to the party! But I like a Nature Cleric/Conjuration Wizard focused on WIS. 10th level Focused Conjuration is a lot of investment for Spirit Guardians, but you get teleport mobility options along the way while upcasting Spirit Guardians to help make up for your STR dump 20 ft heavy armor movement speed. Warcaster + Whip + Thornwhip means keeping creatures in Spirit Guardians longer, and you can use a Minor Conjuration created Whip because it's not dealing the damage, and also don't care about not being proficient. With a max 14 INT, Wizard spells would be focused on teleporting, rituals, Transmute Rock, etc.
I'm doing a monk/cleric multiclass with a single level of Twilight Cleric and everything else in Way of the Open Hand. This gives my Haregon excellent Darkvision, the ability to have or give advantage on Initiative, and gives him access to Bless and Armor of Faith, making it easier for him and others to land attacks. And with Resilient: Constitution feat, makes it harder to lose that Bless/Armor of Faith effect.
Gloomstalker 5 + Twilight Cleric X sounds pretty thematic tbh. And pretty solid. Best as a melee, but still with the option of rangede attacks. A support mastermind rogue 3 that cast spirit guardians and uses help action on 2 players per turn is probably better damage than using a spiritual weapon. Costs no spellslot. If you have great friends anyway :p
I like the rogue/cleric mc, specially for an halfling trickery cleric, but normally the cleric works better as a dip for other classes than the other way.
I personally think that if you begin and continue primarily as a cleric and then later multiclass into druid, then you should be allowed to keep the benefits of the metal armor because you are more of a cleric than a Druid. You can role play it as your deity showing you the knowledge and power of natural world, maybe to boost its servants power and knowledge to better carry out its goals. Or if you’re playing a civilization based cleric, you can see it as your deity giving you the means to cultivate land or manipulate it to keep it away from the cities and towns, helping civilization spread.
Divine Soul Sorcerer 1 Death Cleric 1 Finish Sorcerer. Gets you free twinning of toll the dead on two enemies that are next to each other. Great for something more of an evil DS Sorcerer.
I don't get the monk part (in fact, I have one build shadow monk 8 / trickery cleric 12). You say that armour is better than unarmored defense - I started at 16 dex and 16 wis, so with 16 AC, same as you would have with breastplate - which is too expensive for low levels, or same as with scale mail, but without stealth disadvantage! I already have AC 18 and I will end on AC 20 - all without magic items! On top of that without feats, with great stealth and without armor at all! Then you say, that you want to use bonus action for sacred weapon - With martial arts I can attack two times for 1d6+DEX, all with advantage when my duplicity is active, coparing it to your 1d8+WIS seems much better! If you use spirit guardians, you can survive in front lines much better with your KI used for dodge, than any other cleric. If you add trickery domain spells like blink or mirror image, you can easily evade concentration checks like no other class. Shadow monk also increases your mobility extremely (teleporting, better movement speed, KI), so you land spirit guardians much more easily, than other clerics! On top of that, I don't care about gear at all! If you are ambushed during rest, you need 1 minute to put on armour, I don't need anything. If you get arrested and your gear is taken, you are weakened - not monk/cleric multiclass, this multiclass even has natural magic attacks without any gear! So why haven't you mentioned this? Have you forgotten about dex-based cleric domains? Have you not concidered trickery domain?
I think a cleric/druid multiclass would work very well with a race that has natural armor. A totrle for example has a 17 ac and add a shield you would have a 19 ac with no armor
You can cast 2 leveled action spells but I believe if you cast a bonus action spell you are still locked into action cantrips. You could cast 2 of them with an action surge, which I guess could be useful if you were using something like toll the dead at 11th level to deal 6d12 damage if they fail both saves. There are definitely bonus action spells out there you could use to help out too, like the magic weapon one or whatever it is that will attack once on a bonus action.
People talk about tempest 2/storm Sorc xx, but the concept of storm Sorc 1/tempest xx intrigues me. Tempestuous magic helps you better position your spirit guardians, shield/absorb elements + booming blade cantrip, spell slot progression remains. Lots of synergy, it would seem.
Saving throws' proficiencies doesn't stack when multiclassing. Other wise you could be proficient in every saving throw just by dipping into two secondary classes. Player's Handbook, Chapter 6 - Multiclassing.
I played a 1 level life domain cleric Circle of the Shepherd Druid.... The Unicorn Spirit Totem + Disciple of Life was pretty nuts. If you didn't care about casting 8th/9th level spells, the optimal config for healing at high level would be 6 cleric, 14 druid. The cleric 6th level class feature is very nice, but if you want 8th level spells you could forego that level and take 15 druid for 8th level spells. The main reason you take cleric to level 5 is for all the 3rd level spells that cleric has, that druid doesn't. Specifically, Beacon of Hope, and Mass Healing Word. As the dedicated healer you can still deal cantrip damage on rounds you have to heal, and then bonus action healing word the most damaged player, OR MASS healing word the whole group after a fireball / dragon's breath. The reason you take mass healing word is so everyone gets the disciple of life tick, AND as a 3rd level spell its a bigger heal. I never got to play the build at high level sadly, but conceptually I'm pretty confident it would spank.
Cleric is a much better dip for Monk versus the other way around. Just a note, Warlock Hexblade gets the option to pick the Shield Spell. You can also pick up Booming Blade/ Greenflame Blade. Depending on the kind of Cleric you play this can be very helpful. If you pick the Celestial Warlock you get 2 free Cantrips and you get two free uses of basically Healing Word. However you can still cast an action spell and the Celestial’s Healing ability as it’s an ability, not a spell. Also if you pick this and go for Tomelock you have infinite Cantrips (I’m just kidding but between both classes, at 4th level you’d have 8+ Cantrips).
Agreed. I had a player in an undead-heavy game play a Sun Soul Monk who periodically took a couple levels in Light Cleric. Absolutely devastating, especially in some of the most important, plot-centric combats. Routinely made the rest of the party feel completely redundant whenever tackling a modest number of very powerful undead enemies.
Been check multiclass options. Dwarf with Sorcerer+Cleric is good. Dwarf = HeavyA does not limit speed if below 15 Str. So you can focus on other stats like Cha and Wis. I did a dagger wielding Dwarven Sorcerer Cleric. Cha/Wis/Dex based stats.
I will have to disagree with the Cleric/Monk combination. Especially when it comes to a Death Cleric / Shadow Monk. Monk 6 (possibly 7 for the evasion) and then the remainder in Death Domain Cleric makes for some wicked nova damage. Eschew the evasion at level 7 and add 2 levels of Fighter for Action Surge and that is potentially 6 unarmed strikes with the added Channel Divinity feature for some wicked damage and the added bonus of up to 5 Stunning Strikes. You’re absolutely spent on Ki at that point but then you can fall back on up cast Inflict Wounds in addition to a Spirit Guardians damage and debuff. For defense you can have a combination of Aid and False Life for extended HP pool as well.
My Forge Cleric is dipping 3 levels into Fighter to get Echo Knight. I appreciate there is a conflict with bonus action once I get sprit weapons. But I like the idea of being able to create and possibly duplicate stuff, even myself. Pretty sure my crappy Hill Dwarf's movement will work out being a bit better too. Time will tell.
If you dip Hexblade on a Cleric, you also get the Shield spell which is sweet, as well as Booming Blade if you are a melee Cleric. Just a bit of extra value.
Or your could just pick Magic Initiate (Warlock). You'd only get Shield once a day, but it's a real pain for a Cleric to have enough Charisma to multi-class.
@@goodgulfgas it depends on how your table generates stats. Standard array and point buy it is quite easy to get a 13 in say charisma, its your 3rd choice stat for your 3rd choice ability score, and in most cases the difference between assigning a 12 or a 13 to that third stat is non-existent. Rolling stats, sure you might be more limited. You might also have 3 16's and have zero worries.
So ive been looking at cleric/warlock multiclass. If you want to make sacred flame buffed, going grave cleric and celestial patron will add your wisdom and charisma modifier to the cantrip, making it do 4d8+10 max which isn't bad for a cantrip. It will also increase your healing nicely. Plus if you want to keep yourself alive taking the pact boon of the chain and getting gift of the ever living one will help heal yourself and mass healing spells are guaranteed to do max healing. I feel like there is a synergy here that could work out nice if you go for a wis chr build. Any thoughts?
20:00 you missed SOOOO many things with Sorc- Shield, utility cantrips like Mage Hand, Message, and Minor Illusion, metamagic relatively early with 3 levels, tons of flavor.
Me: *slow blink* wait he has a youtube channel. UA-cam/google algorithm: yeah so I know you've been using this guy's pathfinder class guides in google docs for years, I'm only now going to recommend his channel when your learning 5e.
I love the domäne of order cleric. I only took one level of that into my fairy Druid and whenever i heal someone or buff him, that someone can bonk an enemy. That can be for example Blessing and Healing word (bonus action) equils 2 Attacks from my friends. Thats 4 actions at lvl2
Armor: Light armor, medium armor, shields (druids will not wear armor or use shields made of metal)... so while yes, and most home games would allow, in Adventurer's League it wouldn't be legal because the wording is "will not wear" instead of "chooses not to"
@@DefaultProphet This seems to say that Druids don't wear metal armor, but not wearing metal armor is a choice that all druids make, which is kind of how it's flavored in the PHB anyways. The "talk with your DM if you want it to be otherwise" is a pretty standard thing which can allow anything really.
I actually have a unique way around this: Lizardfolk. Specifically their Cunning Artisan (not by RAW, but arguably within reason). Granted, you need to find a beast large enough to make "Bone Platemail," but you CAN still have plate, with some DM green light
If you dip sorcerer at level 1 you will not get any new weapon proficiencies when you multiclass into cleric. For example a human sorcerer 1/life cleric X will be stuck using "sorcerer weapons". There are three ways to overcome this: 1) martial weapons proficiency from your domain, 2) racial weapon proficiencies, or 3) not caring about weapons.
Hey man, I really enjoy your series! More often than not I'll have some weird concept in mind that I wanna try, yet the actual attempt doesn't work most of the time, so I really appreciate getting insight in helpful builds and what works (and why!) With your previous focus on wizards and the newly added int based classes, namely artificer and, though unofficial, Mercer's rework of his blood Hunter class alongside unearthed arcana editions (rune fighter, echo knight, etc), I was wondering if you would consider making a "how to int Gish" kinda video, or do you work only with official material? Thanks in advance!
just kinda started: homebrewing :: Politeful SeaWing ( Cleric Paladinique ) .. *thinks* .. Mostly does liasons//luncheons n rendezvous//runner-up guardsmenship [ possibly part Inquisitor n / or Regal background )
Just some notes: I have four clerics (or multi-class clerics) at level 16+. Two are pure 16th level Clerics, War and Trickery, and I can't justify adding a multi-class. The War Cleric would get nothing noteworthy for dipping Fighter, and the Trickery Cleric would similarly see little to no benefit for either Bard or Rogue levels. One of the Clerics is Cleric(Liught)11/Monk(Kensei)5. She's cool and works fairly well as a worshiper of Eilistraee. But, cool as it is, it is *not* optimized, and I think she'd have been better off as simply a Cleric, or simply a Monk. Beween Bracers of Defense, a high DEX and high WIS she has a decent armor class that is further helped by Kensei. But again, I feel like she should have picked a class and stuck with it. The last cleric is Cleric(Light)15/Bard(Lore)3. She was built to fit an idea, she is a courtier and spy. The Lore Bard gave her proficiency with an extra four total skills (and expertise on two of them), it didn't hurt her spell casting (I focused on no-save/no-attack Bard Spells). The two things that I don't like about the build are I (ignorantly) took Elemental Adept (Fire) and she will never see the Auto-Answered Divine Intervention. At the end of the day, I love all of my clerics, but it is clear to me that single class clerics are, in most cases, the optimal choice :) Thanks for the insightful videos.
My multiclass char had 2 levels life cleric, 2 levels moon druid, 6 levels bearbarian, 3 open hand monk and 1 rogue He was super great and awesome Oh yeah, he also was human variant for magic initiate for find familiar, presto and mage hand We played from levels 2 - 14 with him as the only tank and healer, and i never rolled a death save, despite us fighting cr 20+ encounters most the way through The battles were epic, but the stenanigans were doubly epic Ill never forget Torval Frurirlbror Greenwold
I you want to get silly, 5 levels of Ranger (Gloom Stalker), 1 of War Cleric, and 2 of Fighter; you can get off 7 weapon attacks in the first round with Dread Ambush (3), Action Surge (3 more), and bonus action War Priest (1). And then 3 more then next round with War Priest. All depends on the Wisdom modifier. 10 ATTACKS IN THE FIRST 2 ROUNDS.
Probably want shilleagh then. I know you don't get the war cleric attack but landing the 6 hits in the first round is more important. But with hunters mark it is pretty nice way to get an extra 7d6 damage in the first round (assuming you have time to prepare)
@@moto2442 For sure, there's plenty of things to do with the bonus action. I'm just saying, dipping one or two levels of War Cleric for a Ranger is really good. War Priest, extra spells, Channel Divinity, etc.
@@goodgulfgas Your original comment has kind of inspired me into trying to work out the best way to get as many attacks and bonuses to attacks as possible. I'm thinking melee paladin oathbreaker with a quaterstaff taking the dueling fighting style. 8 paladin, 2 levels of hexblade warlock, 3 of gloom stalker ranger, 2 of fighter and then I'm not sure. Maybe paladin to 12 and ranger to 4. So you end up as a 7th level caster with 2 warlock slots. And 4 asi. 2 for Cha to 20 and 1 polearm master the other sentinel/elven accuracy. So on the first round of combat you get 4 attacks each doing 1d6+1d6(hex)+12(5 from Aura of hate, 5 from hex warrior, 2 from dueling)= 4*(19) you deal also an additional 2d8 (one from improved smite and one from dread ambusher) you could also deal up to 4 times hex blade curse. If you use action surge you get an extra 3 attacks allowing you to deal an extra 61.5 damage boosting the total 126.5 without using the hexblade curse with it it is 188.5. I would choose either half elf or Aasimar. I prefer half-elf for elven accuracy. This allows you to crit fish and with pal you can pile a bunch of extra damage on with smites. The only downside with this build is it requires you to have 13 in Str, wis and dex aside from using Cha for attacking and casting. With point buy you can only get a +1 to con which sucks.
Hi Treantmonk! What do you think of and how would you multiclass a Light Cleric? (Related question at the end) I was thinking of taking a 2 level Wizard dip after hitting Cleric 5, then going straight Cleric after. I've also considered building it as Cleric 14/Wizard 6, progressing to Cleric 5, then Wizard 2, then Cleric 8, then finishing off wizard before Cleric I was leaning toward Evoker, but your mention of War Mage has me thinking. Bendy Fireballs, a Familiar and ritual casting all have a LOT of appeal though. More details: This is an established character Aasimar (Stat mods are applied), Sage Background STR 13, DEX 14, CON 16, WIS 18, INT 18, CHA 16 Do you know, can a Level 2 wizard put a level 5 wizard spell in their spell book once they have access to level 5 slots? I think the answer is "No but they can upcast a level 1 spell to level 5" but I'm not sure. The reason for this is access to higher level ritual spells. Can a Cleric/wizard copy a spell that's shared on both lists into a wizard spellbook? Detect magic is my example here.
Unless I missed an Errata somewhere, you can absolutely cast your Cleric spell with Warlock spell slots and vice versa. "Pact Magic. If you have both the Spellcasting class feature and the Pact Magic class feature from the warlock class, you feature to cast spells you know or have prepared from classes with the Spellcasting class feature, feature to cast warlock spells you know."
RAW or not, the druid armor is the one rule I would never follow or suggest following for anyone (of course everyone is welcome to play the want they want to). It's a stupid rule. It's one of the only fluffs that makes it into the rules and forcingly limits characters. I remember reading about a dwarf druid that liked fire and mountains and hated trees. That would have made a lot of sense to use metal armor. When you can reflavor a class to meet your needs to the extent that a Warlock doesn't require a patron*, a Cleric doesn't require a god*, and a Bard doesn't have to play any music*, why limit the Druid to only 'natural armors'? Warlocks flavor text says they get their power from a patron, but it's been discussed that a patron unlocks the inherent Warlock's skill (which was used to explain why they are CHA casters) and that it's inappropriate for just any Warlock to lose their powers because they stop working with their patron. At this point, you can minimize the patron's existence to nothing or nearly nothing. "I read a book once of [insert patron type here] secrets and it unlocked how to cast Warlock spells in my mind." Clerics don't have to follow a god, they can follow a concept or philosophy. Which can include murder hobo haha. Bards do need a musical instrument to cast spells, and they naturally gain proficiency in 3 instruments (1 if multiclassed). You do not have to play the instrument to cast spells, just hold it. At some point, an arcane focus with some holes in it (i.e. a long flute) works just as well. Although I would say that an instrument is one that is listed, it's hard to argue against certain instruments that are so simple that they are effectively a stick (arcane focus like) or some druid/holy symbol. Point is, one of the best things about this channel is have a character concept and make the rules fit that character (I love the example with necro wizards, the light spell is a sickly green light, the fireball spell is similar etc.) It's unfortunate that almost all rules like this can easily be reflavored but the druid's no metal armor stays, especially when it can make no sense. /Rant
Druid armor just means you need to get woodcarvers instead of smiths to make armor and maybe find a exotic wood fit for form if making heavy armor (aka common to uncommon cost increase equivalent so 2~4x cost). Also no, a warlock requires a patron in the same way how a paladin* requires a god or godlike creature (no divine rank creature that is aligned with the ideals of the oath = no source to get the divine magic for the "zeal" to manifest, both are required *except for oathbreakers where its also explicitly the reverse). No patron = no pact boon or pact slots till you get a new patron or return to the good graces because those features explicitly call upon the patron granting them each time.
Paladins don't require a god in 5E. Warlocks can get their power reading from a book about a patron like creature and never interact with them or the book again. You sound like a DM that would not allow certain character designs because of rules in your mind of how things should be. You are welcome to play how you want of course, I will keep not playing that way myself.
@@RavenWolfStarcraft2 Every paladin except for Oathbreaker depends on there being a god that aligns with their ideals/require a god to have any powers other than fighting style, read the PHB again.
I did, I don't see it. Please quote or cite the page that you want me to read. There is support that they don't from sage advice. Right here.www.sageadvice.eu/2016/10/23/are-paladins-required-to-follow-a-deity/
@@RavenWolfStarcraft2 1) Sage advice twatter has no effect on the game and not even on RAI, only official errata have any effect IF a table decides to use it. 2) "a paladin's power comes as much from a commitment to justice itself as IT DOES FROM A GOD." - phb 82. 3) about half the paladin features literally have DIVINE in their name 4) Oh and the little fact the PHB and SCAG spellcasting define divine casters and non-arcane magic drawn from the weave being directly tied to the (rest of the) gods (instead of just mystra).
Regarding Pal/Cleric MCs, a Paladin might want an option for a bonus action attack for nova rounds, like when fighting a boss. This is especially good in Adventurer's League, where almost every module ends in some sort of "main fight". By dipping War Cleric, a Pal can get a couple of bonus action attacks per day and can Smite 3 times in a turn. Bumping the wisdom enough to get 2 a day hurts other stats, but in Adv League you can trade things like Gauntlets of Ogre Power or a Hill Giant Str belt to your Pal, meaning the Pal only really needs 13 str, allowing Cha, Con and if doing this dip, Wis, to be high enough to be very optimized. Three smites a turn on a nova round is hard-hitting. On Sorc/Cleric MCs, there is a somewhat silly combo that allows a single target massive damage attack - a "boss killer". Again in A.L. this can make sense, as we often face bosses at the end of modules. You go 2 lvls of Grave Cleric, race is Half Elf w; Elven Accuracy at lvl 4 (start w/ ch 17, bump it to 18). In tier 2 the big attack starts to come on line. The main attack works like this: you go up to the target, you use your action to use the Grave feature to make it vulnerable to the next attack, then use Quickened to do a bonus action casting of inflict wounds - and iirc you can use Empowered on this too - and you upcast inflict wounds to the max. At lvl 9 that's 7d10 but the target is vulnerable, so it is 7d10 x2 or 14 d10, w/e way the DM wants you to so it, or 70 points of damage. I almost forgot, make sure you get advantage on this attack - another party member can Help you, for example - and you roll 3d20 to attack. If you crit, even better. Normal damage is 75 on average, not taking into account Empowered, which may be worth it mathematically or may not - it would on average add at least some damage. But if you crit, you do 150. If you one-dip hexblade and cursed target on a previous round, you crit on a 19 or 20. This is a fun build to theory-craft; I've yet to try playing it. Another consideration: if you're going to play a cleric to lvl 20 and if you're going to keep playing it at lvl 20 a while, if you so much as dip one level on the way, you sacrifice the ability once a week to get an automatic divine favor - which lvl 20 clerics consider "TPK insurance".
@Remy Boivin How is this comment relevant to what I said above? Yes, AL is magic item rich. No, most DMs don't/can't just restrict magic items, certainly not at AL cons or the organized store/AL places where I play. Look, what I said above is about tactical choices intrinsic to build approaches that has little to do w/ magic items. I play a lot of AL - I don't see the same builds all the time - people are very individualistic.
@Remy Boivin Oh DMs can do all sorts of things in AL ... once. Get it? Let it sink in before you pop off, please. I don't mean that flippantly - I am actually trying to be helpful.
@Remy Boivin I worry that you're not even trying to understand what I'm saying, while you keep repeating stuff I already know. I'm not going to reply to you any more unless you at least try to understand me.
@Remy Boivin believe what you want: we're speaking past each other. I strongly suspect that ego is more in play here than rationality - me as much as you. Good luck to you, though. Not replying to you again.
@Treantmonk's Temple which combination would you consider stronger with a tempest cleric. Three levels of eldritch knight or 1 favored soul sorcerer, 2 paladin? Both will give con proficiency and booming blade but I'm not sure if smite is worth being so mad vs. action surge and advantage on my attacks with find familiar.
Wow, blew right past Tempest Cleric multi class with Storm Sorcerer, huh? The destructive wrath channel divinity is so good with those two and helps the sorc squishyness with some armor.
If you roll some really good stats cleric/paladin can put in some serious work. I had a 14th level war cleric, and a 6th level vengeance paladin and after casting haste could dish out 4 attacks dealing 2d6+7d8+15 damage which is an average of 214 damage assuming every attack hits.
One thing that strikes me about Cleric/Paladin is that you’d better have a good reason not to go Pally/Sorc instead. You have access to all the same spells no slower than P/C if you go divine soul, without any MAD issues. If you don’t need a class or subclass feature of the Cleric, it seems like the weakest link.
My cleric second strongest ability score is charisma. While wisdom is 20 and cha is 16 and then con. So I have no issue with charisma classes and actually think they are the best options for me. My dex is -1 and strength is +2 so I need to avoid physical or ranged classes.
You seem to tend towards doing a lot tof lvl 2 or lvl 3 dips when you multiclass, thus skipping or delaying a lot of ASIs. Do you not consider ASIs very important from an optimiser's standpoint?
There are two schools of thought in d and d, IMO. The first is that feats are better than asi. Treatmonk seems to think until late tier two or early tier 3 your stats don’t matter that much. The second is stats matter more would rather take stats as they effect skills, stats, saves, hp, and armor class. But it also depends on the class. Spell caster just need one asi. The game seems to be balanced where you just have a 16 in your ability score until 8 for example. Another thing to note is if you don’t take 17 levels in a spell caster you cannot cast 9th level spells.
5e explicitly removed a lot of the importance for high stats. Advantage lets you ignore lower rolls a lot of the time, things like spell slots are no longer tied to stats, number of skills known no longer tied to a stat, etc. etc. So the choice between the marginal benefit of +1 stat bonus vs a feat or a multiclass for benefits is what you are deciding on.
Rune Knight + cleric for the increased size of spirit guardians is pretty good too ( question is, which do you want to lvl up, the fighter or the cleric, and that depends on wether or not you like using weapons as a player ).
My Grave Domain cleric is having a hard time when targeted in melee... I end up having to waste quit a few spells staying up if I'm high on the initiative and targeted when with in melee range... im hoping to multi in to genie lock or some sort of wizard for a few spells to get out of range or make me more survivable.... any suggestions?
Just sort of dabbling with D&D for the first time. Was thinking about creating either a War Cleric/ Gloom Stalker Ranger or Life Cleric/GloomStalker Ranger. Would you recommend taking the 5 levels of Ranger first before attempting the Cleric levels?
Do many people actually play in those manhattan distance worlds with sqare spheres? It's kinda not fair and makes the spells a lot stronger than they should be.
@@TreantmonksTemple If you are playing with the UA class variant rules the fewer known spells becomes much less debilitating for bards sorcerers and warlocks. With it Divine soul becomes the best caster in the game in my opinion. The cleric list is brilliant and some of the spells are ridiculous when combined by metamagic. On top of that you get most of the spells that the wizard gets with a few powerful exceptions. You get concentration free flight at level 14. The only downside is the lack of armour but a 2-3 level dip into hexblade solves that issue and can line you up for a powerful build.
Treantmonk's Temple Do you want twice as many spells, most of which are garbage with your 13 Wis, or do you want a smaller but the best curated spell list in the game that actually uses your casting stat?
@@M0ebius and as I said in my comment spell versatility makes up for any weakness in that regard. If you take hexblade as well you can only focus on one stat charisma and means you can grab auto-takes and save your sorcerer spells for more interesting spells.
You forgot to mention with the ranger multiclass that you also get Hail of Thorns, which, when you have multiclassed to full caster, is basically an AoE smite with ranged attacks, going up to 6d10 bonus damage, and it's magical piercing damage, which very few things are resistant or immune to.
I wanted to play a light cleric. However I also wanted to start with Con saves and I wanted heavy armor. So I took my first level as a fighter. Went variant human with the Warcaster feat. Str16, Dex10, Con14, Int8, Wis16, Cha8. Is it more powerful than pure light cleric, no, but it IS more tanky, and the party I am playing in consists of players who do not understand their tank roles and are 'far' from optimized.
Something that I've always worked around when it comes to the Cleric/druid mix is having the medium/heavier armors crafted out of animal parts. Quite a few turtle creatures have a very high natural AC, with the dragon turtle at a natural 20, and you could also do something similar to dragonplate like in skyrim where you use the bones of large magical creatures and the like.
paladins, rangers and druids are the usual multiclass suspects as they all use the wisdom modifier to some degree and have cleric type of spells, and can offer the cleric some martial weapon proficiencies.
I need some help now....I have a warforged cleric but I want to multi class with druid......would that be possible or would that be conflicting with itself
lots of stuff to say about druid dipping. 1st, if you are going to 20 just go pure Druid, its the best level 20 class and you dont want to waste a level 20 adventure. 2nd, you are wrong. My Druid cleric wears platemail. I had to pry the shell off a Giant beetle and laquer it, combining the pieces with some Bullette hide i harvested but now im an AC 22 druid (with my shield and shield of faith) you forgot about the advantage of going small with Spirit guardians. if you are a tiny spider on the ceiling in the swirling storm of vengeful animal spirits you are both out of the way of most attacks and can hide easily , so the stampede of ghostly animals appear to be out of freaking nowhere and completely unstoppable.
So I am interested in the Fighter 3 /War Domain cleric 17 mix and taking TWF for 1st fighter feat and either Rune or Eldritch at level 3 but I see on D&D beyond that both of those level 3 fighting styles are still considered UA/playtest and not legal in D&D Adventure league which is where I plan to play. Is this true? Do Adventure league DMs allow the play test or UA rules in Adventure league? If so I'd just choose human and take initiate Fighting style- TWF as a starting feat (UA also) and stay War domain Cleric the whole way with no multiclassing. Ps. sounds like your examples are 3.5 or Pathfinder (Sacred weapon is pathfinder) not 5e. Please advise.
Gotta disagree on the Artificer one. Battlesmith mostly eliminates the need for a Str/Dex score for the most part and the new Armorer (which may not have been out when you did the video) COMPLETELY eliminates it. To be fair, the Battle Smith Steel Defender kinda steps on the toes of Spiritual Weapon, but with its ability to grant you advantage and the enemy disadvantage it kinda beats out SW, in my opinion. Especially if you have a good DM that lets you really be an Artificer and build cool magic weapons. Plus the flavour of a Forge Cleric and an Artificer is just scrumptious. Haha
Hi Treatmonl! What do you think about the echo knight? 6 levels for sentinel and great weapon master then cleric Advice on what cleric subclasses fit better? Thank you :)
Usually, an MC dip isn't worth it unless the added benefits from the MC outweigh any losses of Capstones, ASI's, and/or Spell Slot progression. This is especially noticeable in homebrew campaigns where Feats are banned. In the case of a Life Domain Cleric, for example, trying to MC into Warlock, will cause you to lose out on the Supreme Healing Capstone, but it might be worth it if a person MC's into Warlock (Pact of the Chain) and takes the Gift of the Ever-Living Ones Eldritch Invocation. But there is a trade off there, and it's a fairly severe one. The problem here is that it requires a minimum commitment of 3 Levels into Warlock, thus stripping the PC of the following from their Cleric levels: 1. Their last ASI. 2. The loss of certain 8th/9th level slots. 3. Their 3rd Channel Divinity, and most importantly, 4. The loss of your Divine Intervention Improvement at level 20 (which is an automatic success when it's used). And out of the deal, at best, you get 2 E.I.'s out of the deal (one of which has to be used for Gift of the Ever-Living Ones), EB (eldritch blast), a couple of extra known spells and a couple of "free" spell slots to upcast stuff to level 2. That's not exactly what I would call a profitable tradeoff. As far as MC'ing a Cleric into a Ranger? Playing a DEX fighter is frankly much more effective (using Archery Style with Second Wind, Action Surge, and Improved Crit.), as it requires less of a class dip. Really, there's very little reason, other than for sheer RP value, to MC away from Cleric, unless your stats are so bad that you have no choice but to do so, just to survive. As a final bit on all of this, the best healing spells don't use hit dice at all (Power Word Heal, Mass Heal, etc.), and so the Supreme Healing feature might not get all that much mileage by the time you get to level 17. (Personally, I think the major thing missing from the Cleric subclass is the lack of a ranged spell attack cantrip that's universal across the entire class. And no, the saving throw based cantrips don't really count.) But that's just my 2 cents. 👍
Is this multiclass discussion video going to become a series? I would love a more in depth look at the options for other classes too
Same
Clerics bring that "I know what I bring to the table, so I'm not afraid to dine alone" energy to the multi classing discussion. Such a good frame they don't need much help.
TLDR: Clerics dont multiclass, other classes multiclass into cleric (for armor or weapons and maybe CD/SW).
I think it’s worth noting that with a Ranger/Cleric MC you get access to both Goodberry and Healing Spirit without the Druid’s armor penalty. So a Life Cleric/Ranger dip actually make for an excellent healer-gish.
Edit: Okay nevermind you saved that for the end of the video.
I have an AL Beastmaster Ranger 5/Life Cleric 1 and it is very rewarding. I giggled inside the first time I saw someone's face when I told them I heal the whole party for 75 hitpoints with Healing Spirit😆 Plus it's fun to play what most people think is a weak and broken class but do more damage than them with more survivability. He's a stout halfling who rides his pteranadon, Terry, and uses a shield and lance. It's amazing how many AL modules have encounters that have nothing to deal with a flying PC with reach and Flyby. The only downside is Terry's low HP but I have the Mounted Combatant feat to protect him as well as all of my crazy healing. The most fun, though, is doing my best Steve Irwin impression and RPing his nature loving bushwacker side.
ATinyWaffle If you wanna get REALLY crazy, take 3 levels of Warlock for chain pact and Gift of the Ever-living Ones.
@@M0ebius Eh... I'd say I have enough healing. It wouldn't fit for the character and I want more hitpoints for my beast. But yeah, from a pure build standpoint, you could cast Healing Spirit and basically have part of the Oath of the Ancients Paladin level 20 ability, healing 10 HP every round.
ATinyWaffle You wouldn’t, but you could. AND you can upcast it once for 17HP per turn. You can also heal allies when applicable. Also the spell lasts 10 rounds and most combats last 3-5, so you’d have enough healing to top everyone off after each fight.
@@M0ebius Healing Spirit is best used out of combat, anyway. I concentrate on Hunter's Mark during combat.
forge Cleric/warwizard has nice ac with plate armor, 18+2(shield)+2 from forge+2 reaction ac from war wizard = 24, pretty good for spiritguardian tank! Warcaster and +4 saves will make concentrations pretty easy too, also only needs 2 lvls of wiz, and gets find familiar and booming blade
I can’t tell you how helpful this was. I was doubting my Ranger 5/Cleric 6 choices until I saw this video. Now, I really think I’ve done okay. Keep up the excellent work.
One thing you didn't mention regarding Fighter, that I think is really important, is that it's a way for the Cleric to access Booming Blade (Eldritch Knight gets cantrips), which is pretty much a required damage fix for all weapon using clerics at tier 2 and especially going into tier 3. Sorcerer/Warlock/Wizard also grant access to it, which saves you the feat (or the racial requirement) it normally costs to access it.
True
24:00 for warlock, you also gain access to cantrips you don't otherwise have access to without a feat (specifically melee cantrips), spells you don't otherwise have access to (Sleep, Shield, hex, charm person, faerie fire, tasha's hideous laughter), and if you are willing to dip up to level 2 or 3 - superior darkvision if your race doesn't have darkvision, ritual casting from all classes, maximized self healing and an improved familiar, 2 spells on a short rest (level 1 or level 2 depending on levels 2-3 dip), as well as other roleplay options via alternate invocations, and the level 1 patron abilities, and some other choice level 2 spells like misty step, mirror image, etc. All while accepting you are delaying your spell progression by 2 levels, but depending on how deep your campaign will go that might not matter - level 4 spells for several cleric subclasses and just in general seem fairly "meh" to me.
Just built a cleric/fighter of level 7/5. War/champion. Can attack 3 times per turn or twice with a bonus action spell. Access to action surge (technically can attack 5 times in one turn once). AC of 20 with a shield and full plate. If an attack deals a 19 it can also crit. A few other neat things in there. The party already has 2 other people that can heal, 2 that can revive, and this cleric has that too but is able to also deal some damage with super nice perks on top of it.
It's kind of kind a more complicated paladin I guess, but with some bonus features like action surge and the 19 critical it makes them pretty unique, versatile, and still quite potent.
Probably not the best thing in the world but damn it's cool.
i have a level 4 bard who just today got in contact with a sea goddess and unexpectedly leveled up, and became a bard cleric. it was so surprising and insane, and honestly to me it doesnt matter a lot if bard cleric isnt the best multiclass, its a milestone in my characters life and made for an awesome character development scene
Being a Bard and getting a dip in Cleric can be really good. That sounds exciting (especially Life or Peace). It just doesn't work well for a Cleric to dip a Bard level- it doesn't add as much value.
I know you don't look at UA, but currently there's a UA Druid circle that has an option at level 2 to let you use wildshape to treat 9s and below as 10s for concentration checks (among other things). Almost a must-dip, especially paired with Warding Bond.
For those wondering, Warding Bond cast on yourself makes you take half damage (rounded down) twice, as well as a +1 to AC and concentration checks.
Taking the damage in two parts means if you would normally take 43 damage (normally a DC 21 check), you take 21 twice, for two DC 10 checks.
Clear Sky Guardian The Warding Bond trick is actually pretty clever. But probably unnecessary since you already auto-pass DC10s. But yeah, that Star Druid is a sweet dip - you get tons of stuff for 2 levels.
SharkForce You appear to be missing MY point, which is that an overwhelming majority of your concentration saves are DC10s, so Warding Bond is just icing on the cake for corner cases.
Also it’s fine if you disallow it as a DM, and I suspect that could be the RAI. But the RAW of the spell DEFINITELY allows you target yourself. Touch ranged spells says “Some spells can target only a creature (including you) that you touch.” Targetting Yourself section says “If a spell targets a creature of your choice, you can choose yourself, unless the creature must be hostile or specifically a creature other than you.” So this is, in fact, legal, although you can house rule as you see fit with the understanding that it is a house rule.
@@M0ebius The fun of RAW vs RAI. Targeting yourself rules on page 204 also say "If a spells targets a creature of your choice" where as Warding Bond only says "willing creature". Many other spells use the actual "creature of your choice" wording so I can clearly see a RAW argument for disallowing. Also the final part on page 204 does have a line saying unless it must be a creature other than you. I am not aware of any spells that call that out explicitly? There may be some as I do not know every spell but this would certainly seem to apply to the rest of the text of Warding Bond. That said if you have a DM who would let you do this it is a neat way around difficult Concentration saves as the expense of an extra spell slot and if one of my players came up with this in the middle of a session I might let them get away with it.
Lyracian Xi Is the willing creature in this case is the target of the spell? And do you choose that creature? Yes and yes, so I don’t really see the RAW argument you’re making. Also Warding Bond doesn’t preclude yourself in the spell text (and yes some spells say that explicitly but I dont recall off the top of my head).
That said, it is a creative use of the spell and ultimately not that powerful (like I said it matters rarely for the overwhelming majority of concentration saves), so personally I dont see a reason for banning it.
I did however came up with a build that would really maximize Warding Bond - Divine Soul 3 Hexblade 3 Lore Bard 6 Life Cleric 1. You start VHuman Sorcerer for CONsave proficiency and Warcaster for an ironclad concentration, then you take Healing Spirit via Magical Secrets, Gift of the Everliving Ones via Chain Pact, and Twinned Spell and Warding Bond via Divine Soul. You twin the Warding Bond on two allies outside combat (1 hour non-concentration), then with Disciple of Life + Gift of the Everliving Ones + upcasted lvl 3-5 Healing Spirit, you heal yourself for 17-31 HP per turn in combat using your bonus action while you Eldritch Blast with your action. There is only statistically a 1% chance you could drop a DC10 concentration check, but you have Favored By the Gods from Divine Soul to bump that roll (or worst case just Quicken another Healing Spirit with no loss in action economy).
Was excited that you mentioned forge cleric and fighter together because my "main" character that I play is that! If you're going primarily as a spellcaster (and why wouldn't you, spells are insanely powerful and useful!) then the small dip into fighter makes sense and the starting payout is huge! My character had some differences that were based on the continuing story of the character but result in a still quite impressive build.
The character was a warlord in 4e and, since there is no true equivalent other than battlemaster in 5e (poor banneret...) then it makes an obvious choice. For cleric, Forge is also an obvious fit as my character (a half-elf) was a follower of Moradin and because Forge Cleric is a powerful combat and utility subclass. The split I chose is Cleric 8/Fighter 11 and for the 20th level I get the capstone of choosing between 5th-level magic (cleric) or an ASI/Feat (Fighter).
Fighter nets some awesome features including con save proficiency, action surge, maneuvers, indomitable, 3 attacks per action, and the rest of the general strengths of the fighter. Cleric nets us its impressive spell repertoire, the added offensive and/or defensive capacity of the Forge Cleric, Some great healing and utility options, a channel divinity feature that is only limited by your creative ability (and the pesky GP limit), destroy undead, fire resistance, and Divine/Blessed Strike. You're not the best caster and you're not the best fighter, but you are good at both and can take hits to boot!
My life Cleric took two levels of Divination Wizard, mostly because I was pissed that our ACTUAL Wizard only wants to blast and never took Find Familiar or any of the other good Wizard spells that don't go BOOM. Well, I had no idea that Shield was so much fun on a mid level Cleric trying to not lose Concentration on that up-cast Spirit Guardians. And Banishment with Portent - I actually felt bad for our DM the only time I used that.... I really felt like I was a bit of a dick, mostly because I don't think he realized that the two could work together the way they do.
TL;DR: Portent is an absolutely incredible ability, arguably the best in the ga.e
Shout out to storm sorcer. Extra 10 feet of free movment works great with spirit guardians! Great way to add action economy. Repositioning is another way to protect your concentration
Also Aasimar instead of half elf for char casters!!! Even you said, the facials are so good! Gives a bonus action use round 1
My favorite cleric multiclass
Rouge/cleric. (The movie priest comes to mind)
Essentially you are an assassin of the church
I’m playing a Rogue 1/Trickery Cleric 7 in a heist tomorrow, and I’m SO EXCITED. Seems like it’s going to be an incredibly fun combo.
I actually disagree with the notion that the sorcerer 1/Cleric X will have a weak level 1. While you're likely going to have to sit *far* in the backline, the two best combat spells at level 1, Magic Missile and Sleep, don't care about your spellcasting modifier at all. The sorcerer also gets Light Crossbow proficiency, so they can be relatively effective shooting off their crossbow (which is what a cleric will be doing at level 1 most of the time anyways)
You misspelled Guiding Bolt, bu I agree with the rest of your points. ;-)
Biggest issue with this is that when you get to higher levels both of those spells are no longer as useful as they once were and as a sorcerer you cannot relearn them because you are not taking additional sorcerer levels. Therefore i would be taking spells with a long shelf life like shield, absorb elements or featherfall. Use a crossbow at level 1, grab the law affinity for bless and just be a support till level 2 when you can get guiding bolt using wisdom which will see you through. I would also like to argue the merits of 3 levels of sorcerer simply for meta magic options, remembering that you can still burn spellslots to fuel you tiny sorcery point pool. Subtle spell as a trickery domain cleric could be a lot of fun. Also i find at higher levels that my level 1 slots don't see a lot of use so burning them for sorcery points it pretty valuable to subtle spell higher level spells or empower them. Also a low level twinned guiding bolt is no joke.
TreantMonk - you absolutely rock!
Thank you!
On a side note, is anyone else surprised that there isn't a college of gospel or something like that for the bard with access to some cleric spells and maybe the ability to heal a creature with your inspiration or something.... Could be interesting since bards already tend to be more supportive casters I find in my limited experience.
I dipped 1 lvl of war cleric on a kensei monk and thought it worked really well and had a great variety of options. War priest essentially gives you 2-4 extra ki points for bonus weapon attacks/long rest, divine favour can add 1d4 for all attacks which can add up to 3d4 / round and you’re not using a bonus action to switch targets. Shield of faith can boost your ac in the front line or bless yourself and others so the unarmed strikes/monk weapons are more likely to hit.
I actually dig Gloomstalker on Trickery domain as a 3 level dip. It gives a good toolbox to your skills, Abilities, and options outside of the Cleric list including access to some decent Ranger spells
Going 5 levels for extra attack and level 2 ranger spells is pretty solid, when you hit level 8 cleric you get the extra 1d8 damage per attack, couple that with crossbow expert or polearm master and that's 3 attacks per round while concentrating on spirit guardians.
I'm a huge fan of Trickery 3 Swashbuckler 17, but it's much more a rogue with access to Bless, Spiritual Weapon, Mirror Image, healing, medium armor, shields, and stealth abilities/spells than it is a cleric who also does rogue stuff.
Something I thought to be very cool for a Cleric/Bard Multi-class:
-Any race with bonuses to charisma and wisdom.
-Start off with either class as you please for preferred saving throws.
-1 level in knowledge domain, and put the rest in lore college.
I found this build to make an excellent knowledge skillmonkey. I was able to eventually get large bonuses due to expertise and extra proficiency boons due to the subclass-specific properties. And, concerning your cleric dip, please feel free to choose spells that are not reliant on a high wisdom score. In addition, I found the build to also make a great party face outside of combat, and a great buff or utility caster in combat. Please feel free to sprinkle in a few offensive spells in addition to spiritual weapon and spirit guardians.
However, please note: Albeit, it was due to personal preferences, it is likely your physical stats will suffer as a result. Strength will likely be your dump stat and dexterity may not reach 14 for medium armor depending on how you move your standard array scores. I certainly had to be mindful of battlefield positioning as a typical squishy caster would have to operate.
I played a ranger 6/ cleric 14 in one of my campaigns that was a vampire hunter with a crossbow. Very effective and thematic. lot's of fun too! One thing you didn't mention about sorcerer, wizard and warlock is that they give you access to booming blade, which is great for melee cleric builds.
Love my life cleric with a 3 level dip in divine soul sorcerer and metamagic adept feat.
This character is basically a field medic... And here is the setup.
Twin warding bond with a character. Gives both of you a +1 to AC and saving throws plus resistance to all damage.
Also my DM has ruled that because I take damage if my tethered partner takes an attack and I'm within the 60 ft range of that tether I can twin shield onto myself and thusly my tether.
Gives us a total of +6 to AC for that round and resistance to any damage we would receive if we fail.
Use this tactic with my fighter often. He is dang near unhittable from an attack. Works great against non spell casters. We generally bum rush the threat and surround him to give us advantage too. I'll usually start up spirit guardians to concentrate on at the highest level I can afford and spend spend my action trying to grapple. Then heal when necessary.
It's a lot of fun
One thing you sort of brushed up against is using the Cleric as a dip, for armor, WIS saves and CD or lvl1 features. There are a number of domains that give some handy benefits for a 1 or 2 level dip, to another primary class.
Now, the ability score challenges are still there. But most people try not to tank WIS anyway. So it's less burdensome.
Thinking of 1 level of Arcana for a Rogue, to get BB, armor, and a couple spells. Then, if he goes AT, he's got a head start on slots and spells too.
Or a 2 level dip into Knowledge Domain for a skill monkey.
Or a 1 level dip into Light Domain for an Evoker.
There may not be a lot of ways to improve a Cleric, compared to single class. But a little Cleric can benefit all sorts of other classes.
@@sharkforce8147 yes and no... this was the Cleric MC guide, and while I wouldn't call the overall character a Cleric with just a dip, it would absolutely be worth mentioning that that 1 or 2 level dip can be an amazing addition to many builds. Maybe not quite as much as 1 Hexblade, but close, the Cleric dip is a top tier option for enhancing a MC'd character.
Really appreciate this guide! It gave me some thoughts on multi-classing for future characters (as my current has middling Cha and Int). Unfortunately, the Wis-primary classes just don’t seem like good candidates for current character’s concept.
Probably would have taken a level in rogue for skills though if someone else in the party hadn’t just done the same thing.
Do you need to multiclass?
Conrad Korbol no I really don’t - but it’s interesting to consider options
Jacob Meyer I always multiclass even when it’s bad. So I am really asking myself, but I agree with you
Can you talk about paladins more?
That's easy: single classed paladins are awesome. Multiclass in a spellcasting class and they're awesomer. 8`)
I just made a cleric named Maya.
Aasimar, acolyte background.
Dex based medium armour cleric:
16 dex, 16 wisdom, 14 con. Dump int, char and str
1st level fighter, for proficiency on con saves, the protection fighting style (wield shield and use reaction so ally within 5 feet of you has disadvantage on being attacked), martial weapon proficiency, grab a rapier
2 levels peace cleric, get the bless as a subclass feature, cast bless on top of it. Give allies a lot of d4 to roll each and every turn. Maya can use Peace subclass feature to get 30 feet of movement that doesn't trigger opportunity attacks, any ally she runs within 5 feet of is healed 2d6.
3 levels of rogue for bonus action dash, disengage. Take Mastermind so she can bonus action give the Help action to an ally within 30 feet, reskin it as her praying "Selune guides your hand" and blessing her ally to make an attack roll with advantage.
Then she takes all the rest of her levels in cleric.
Gets war caster (also has proficiency in consitution saves from 1st level dip in fighter)
Gets bonus 1d8 radiant damage once a turn on melee attacks at lv 8 cleric
+2 wisdom at level 8. 18 wisdom.
Her character is built around protecting allies, giving out buffs, and due to her buffs and protective abilities, allies are encouraged to stand within 5 feet of her. Which will mean she can automatically sneak attack without having to gain advantage because the sneak attack target has two enemies standing next to them.
Actions at level 12 when everything comes fully online
Action: single attack with a rapier +1d4 to hit, 1d8+3 damage +2d6 sneak attack damage +1d8 radiant damage (blessed strikes and level 8), +12 extra radiant damage one attack per turn for one minute (10 rounds) (using level 3 Protector Aasimar feature once per long rest)
Action dodge, while keeping concentration on Spiritual Guardians.
Action to cast a spell, usually buff spells, Channel Divinity action to disengage+ run 30 feet+ heal 2d6+wis mod any ally she runs within 5 feet of as one action.
Bonus action: Disengage, Dash, Healing Word, Help action with 30 foot range (Mastermind Rogue) to give ally advantage on an attack roll
Reaction: Ally within 5 feet has disadvantage to be hit on an attack roll, or teleport as a reaction to bonded ally when they get damaged and take their damage for them (Peace cleric feature)
She has a twin brother, who's also an Aasimar in the party who is a Twilight cleric.
Because of the broken Twilight Peace cleric combo, I've decided that anytime someone uses their reaction to teleport and take damage on behalf of another party member, then the damage hits directly to their HP rather than temp HP
I feel really good about her build, she is really a team player, and makes everyone else on the team stronger because she is there to assist them, and help her allies to shine
With the Intelligence/Wisdom multiclass characters, Vedalken make an excellent race, since they get +2 Intelligence and +1 Wisdom, plus a bunch of other nice stuff. You can role-play it like a Spock character who's come from another dimension, or plane, or something.
This series makes me want to play a High Elf Sorcerer 1/Cleric X multiclass. Start as a Divine Soul then move into the Trickery domain. Use your first ASI to pick up Fey Teleportation. Now you’ve got a cleric with a ton of useful cantrips and access to Shield, Absorb Elements, Mirror Image, Misty Step, Pass without Trace, Dimension Door, and Polymorph.
8:00 on a grid, the size of the Spirit Guardians does not depend on the size of the caster. The rules on page 251 of the DMG are clear: "Choose an intersection of squares or hexes as the point of origin of an area of effect, then follow its rules as normal." Regardless of your size, you choose only one intersection, from which the effect originates.
From the PHB (278), the effect of Spiritual Guardians is a circular Self (15-foot radius). The affected area should therefore not be a square - "If an area of effect is circular and covers at least half a square, it affects that square." (page 251).
If you choose "an intersection of squares" when casting Spirit Guardians then it wouldn't even be centered on you. One side would only extend 10ft from you and the other 15ft.
This is a case of specific over general. The spell description says, "They flit around you to a distance of 15 feet for the duration." Therefore, that's what it does.
The same trick with Spirit Guardians also works on enlarged Casters, such as a Crown Paladin who is enlarged by another caster.
Update: starting with Clockwork Sorcerer 1 would net you CON save proficiency, Shield, Absorb Elements, four cantrips and Armor of Agathys.
The only time I've seen a Monk pair even slightly well with a Cleric is by taking War Domain at Level 1, then shot gunning Monk the rest of the way so you can get the Divine Favor spell which, actually shines, well, glimmers, pretty well on the multiple attacks of the Monk.
Late to the party!
But I like a Nature Cleric/Conjuration Wizard focused on WIS. 10th level Focused Conjuration is a lot of investment for Spirit Guardians, but you get teleport mobility options along the way while upcasting Spirit Guardians to help make up for your STR dump 20 ft heavy armor movement speed. Warcaster + Whip + Thornwhip means keeping creatures in Spirit Guardians longer, and you can use a Minor Conjuration created Whip because it's not dealing the damage, and also don't care about not being proficient. With a max 14 INT, Wizard spells would be focused on teleporting, rituals, Transmute Rock, etc.
I'm doing a monk/cleric multiclass with a single level of Twilight Cleric and everything else in Way of the Open Hand. This gives my Haregon excellent Darkvision, the ability to have or give advantage on Initiative, and gives him access to Bless and Armor of Faith, making it easier for him and others to land attacks. And with Resilient: Constitution feat, makes it harder to lose that Bless/Armor of Faith effect.
Gloomstalker 5 + Twilight Cleric X sounds pretty thematic tbh. And pretty solid. Best as a melee, but still with the option of rangede attacks.
A support mastermind rogue 3 that cast spirit guardians and uses help action on 2 players per turn is probably better damage than using a spiritual weapon. Costs no spellslot. If you have great friends anyway :p
Hexblade 5 Cleric X will allow you to dump Str to 13 or Dex to 14 as you can use Chr to hit and damage.
I like the rogue/cleric mc, specially for an halfling trickery cleric, but normally the cleric works better as a dip for other classes than the other way.
I personally think that if you begin and continue primarily as a cleric and then later multiclass into druid, then you should be allowed to keep the benefits of the metal armor because you are more of a cleric than a Druid.
You can role play it as your deity showing you the knowledge and power of natural world, maybe to boost its servants power and knowledge to better carry out its goals. Or if you’re playing a civilization based cleric, you can see it as your deity giving you the means to cultivate land or manipulate it to keep it away from the cities and towns, helping civilization spread.
Divine Soul Sorcerer 1 Death Cleric 1 Finish Sorcerer. Gets you free twinning of toll the dead on two enemies that are next to each other. Great for something more of an evil DS Sorcerer.
I don't get the monk part (in fact, I have one build shadow monk 8 / trickery cleric 12).
You say that armour is better than unarmored defense - I started at 16 dex and 16 wis, so with 16 AC, same as you would have with breastplate - which is too expensive for low levels, or same as with scale mail, but without stealth disadvantage!
I already have AC 18 and I will end on AC 20 - all without magic items! On top of that without feats, with great stealth and without armor at all!
Then you say, that you want to use bonus action for sacred weapon - With martial arts I can attack two times for 1d6+DEX, all with advantage when my duplicity is active, coparing it to your 1d8+WIS seems much better!
If you use spirit guardians, you can survive in front lines much better with your KI used for dodge, than any other cleric. If you add trickery domain spells like blink or mirror image, you can easily evade concentration checks like no other class.
Shadow monk also increases your mobility extremely (teleporting, better movement speed, KI), so you land spirit guardians much more easily, than other clerics!
On top of that, I don't care about gear at all! If you are ambushed during rest, you need 1 minute to put on armour, I don't need anything. If you get arrested and your gear is taken, you are weakened - not monk/cleric multiclass, this multiclass even has natural magic attacks without any gear!
So why haven't you mentioned this? Have you forgotten about dex-based cleric domains? Have you not concidered trickery domain?
I think a cleric/druid multiclass would work very well with a race that has natural armor. A totrle for example has a 17 ac and add a shield you would have a 19 ac with no armor
Apparently recently they announced that action surge does allow 2 leveled spells to be cast in the same turn which was surprising
You can cast 2 leveled action spells but I believe if you cast a bonus action spell you are still locked into action cantrips. You could cast 2 of them with an action surge, which I guess could be useful if you were using something like toll the dead at 11th level to deal 6d12 damage if they fail both saves. There are definitely bonus action spells out there you could use to help out too, like the magic weapon one or whatever it is that will attack once on a bonus action.
People talk about tempest 2/storm Sorc xx, but the concept of storm Sorc 1/tempest xx intrigues me. Tempestuous magic helps you better position your spirit guardians, shield/absorb elements + booming blade cantrip, spell slot progression remains. Lots of synergy, it would seem.
Also a fighting style with martial classes.
Saving throws' proficiencies doesn't stack when multiclassing. Other wise you could be proficient in every saving throw just by dipping into two secondary classes. Player's Handbook, Chapter 6 - Multiclassing.
I think the point was to start with a class that has con save proficiency
I played a 1 level life domain cleric Circle of the Shepherd Druid.... The Unicorn Spirit Totem + Disciple of Life was pretty nuts. If you didn't care about casting 8th/9th level spells, the optimal config for healing at high level would be 6 cleric, 14 druid. The cleric 6th level class feature is very nice, but if you want 8th level spells you could forego that level and take 15 druid for 8th level spells. The main reason you take cleric to level 5 is for all the 3rd level spells that cleric has, that druid doesn't. Specifically, Beacon of Hope, and Mass Healing Word. As the dedicated healer you can still deal cantrip damage on rounds you have to heal, and then bonus action healing word the most damaged player, OR MASS healing word the whole group after a fireball / dragon's breath. The reason you take mass healing word is so everyone gets the disciple of life tick, AND as a 3rd level spell its a bigger heal. I never got to play the build at high level sadly, but conceptually I'm pretty confident it would spank.
Cleric is a much better dip for Monk versus the other way around.
Just a note, Warlock Hexblade gets the option to pick the Shield Spell. You can also pick up Booming Blade/ Greenflame Blade. Depending on the kind of Cleric you play this can be very helpful.
If you pick the Celestial Warlock you get 2 free Cantrips and you get two free uses of basically Healing Word. However you can still cast an action spell and the Celestial’s Healing ability as it’s an ability, not a spell. Also if you pick this and go for Tomelock you have infinite Cantrips (I’m just kidding but between both classes, at 4th level you’d have 8+ Cantrips).
Agreed. I had a player in an undead-heavy game play a Sun Soul Monk who periodically took a couple levels in Light Cleric. Absolutely devastating, especially in some of the most important, plot-centric combats. Routinely made the rest of the party feel completely redundant whenever tackling a modest number of very powerful undead enemies.
Been check multiclass options. Dwarf with Sorcerer+Cleric is good. Dwarf = HeavyA does not limit speed if below 15 Str. So you can focus on other stats like Cha and Wis. I did a dagger wielding Dwarven Sorcerer Cleric. Cha/Wis/Dex based stats.
Conversely, the best dip for a divine soul sorcerer is a Twilight Cleric.
I will have to disagree with the Cleric/Monk combination. Especially when it comes to a Death Cleric / Shadow Monk. Monk 6 (possibly 7 for the evasion) and then the remainder in Death Domain Cleric makes for some wicked nova damage. Eschew the evasion at level 7 and add 2 levels of Fighter for Action Surge and that is potentially 6 unarmed strikes with the added Channel Divinity feature for some wicked damage and the added bonus of up to 5 Stunning Strikes. You’re absolutely spent on Ki at that point but then you can fall back on up cast Inflict Wounds in addition to a Spirit Guardians damage and debuff. For defense you can have a combination of Aid and False Life for extended HP pool as well.
My Forge Cleric is dipping 3 levels into Fighter to get Echo Knight. I appreciate there is a conflict with bonus action once I get sprit weapons. But I like the idea of being able to create and possibly duplicate stuff, even myself. Pretty sure my crappy Hill Dwarf's movement will work out being a bit better too. Time will tell.
Can you do one of these videos for the paladin please.
Good video
If you dip Hexblade on a Cleric, you also get the Shield spell which is sweet, as well as Booming Blade if you are a melee Cleric. Just a bit of extra value.
Or your could just pick Magic Initiate (Warlock). You'd only get Shield once a day, but it's a real pain for a Cleric to have enough Charisma to multi-class.
@@goodgulfgas You only get a limited number of ASI/Feats, 1 level for warlock benefits vs 1 of your very limited feats is worth considering.
D M It’s not that hard to get 13 charisma. The video literally shows you how.
@@goodgulfgas it depends on how your table generates stats. Standard array and point buy it is quite easy to get a 13 in say charisma, its your 3rd choice stat for your 3rd choice ability score, and in most cases the difference between assigning a 12 or a 13 to that third stat is non-existent. Rolling stats, sure you might be more limited. You might also have 3 16's and have zero worries.
@@M0ebius I know it's not hard, but investing in both Wisdom AND Charisma is not optimal.
So ive been looking at cleric/warlock multiclass. If you want to make sacred flame buffed, going grave cleric and celestial patron will add your wisdom and charisma modifier to the cantrip, making it do 4d8+10 max which isn't bad for a cantrip. It will also increase your healing nicely. Plus if you want to keep yourself alive taking the pact boon of the chain and getting gift of the ever living one will help heal yourself and mass healing spells are guaranteed to do max healing. I feel like there is a synergy here that could work out nice if you go for a wis chr build. Any thoughts?
20:00 you missed SOOOO many things with Sorc- Shield, utility cantrips like Mage Hand, Message, and Minor Illusion, metamagic relatively early with 3 levels, tons of flavor.
Cleric is a good dip for Monk, but not visa versa.
Me: *slow blink* wait he has a youtube channel.
UA-cam/google algorithm: yeah so I know you've been using this guy's pathfinder class guides in google docs for years, I'm only now going to recommend his channel when your learning 5e.
I love the domäne of order cleric. I only took one level of that into my fairy Druid and whenever i heal someone or buff him, that someone can bonk an enemy. That can be for example Blessing and Healing word (bonus action) equils 2 Attacks from my friends. Thats 4 actions at lvl2
Just to say druid can wear metal RAW. It was confirmed that there is no rule, but it is more of a fluff thing that can be used or ignored
Do you have a source for that?
Armor: Light armor, medium armor, shields (druids will not wear armor or use shields made of metal)... so while yes, and most home games would allow, in Adventurer's League it wouldn't be legal because the wording is "will not wear" instead of "chooses not to"
@@DefaultProphet This seems to say that Druids don't wear metal armor, but not wearing metal armor is a choice that all druids make, which is kind of how it's flavored in the PHB anyways. The "talk with your DM if you want it to be otherwise" is a pretty standard thing which can allow anything really.
@@TreantmonksTemple Just kill a dragon and make dragon scale mail or buy it
I actually have a unique way around this: Lizardfolk. Specifically their Cunning Artisan (not by RAW, but arguably within reason). Granted, you need to find a beast large enough to make "Bone Platemail," but you CAN still have plate, with some DM green light
If you dip sorcerer at level 1 you will not get any new weapon proficiencies when you multiclass into cleric.
For example a human sorcerer 1/life cleric X will be stuck using "sorcerer weapons".
There are three ways to overcome this: 1) martial weapons proficiency from your domain, 2) racial weapon proficiencies, or 3) not caring about weapons.
I'd like to multiclass a Trickery cleric with a Drunken munk. It make a perfect drunken immortal build
This is what I'm thinking of doing next too!
Hey man, I really enjoy your series! More often than not I'll have some weird concept in mind that I wanna try, yet the actual attempt doesn't work most of the time, so I really appreciate getting insight in helpful builds and what works (and why!)
With your previous focus on wizards and the newly added int based classes, namely artificer and, though unofficial, Mercer's rework of his blood Hunter class alongside unearthed arcana editions (rune fighter, echo knight, etc), I was wondering if you would consider making a "how to int Gish" kinda video, or do you work only with official material?
Thanks in advance!
just kinda started: homebrewing :: Politeful SeaWing ( Cleric Paladinique ) .. *thinks* .. Mostly does liasons//luncheons n rendezvous//runner-up guardsmenship [ possibly part Inquisitor n / or Regal background )
Just some notes:
I have four clerics (or multi-class clerics) at level 16+.
Two are pure 16th level Clerics, War and Trickery, and I can't justify adding a multi-class. The War Cleric would get nothing noteworthy for dipping Fighter, and the Trickery Cleric would similarly see little to no benefit for either Bard or Rogue levels.
One of the Clerics is Cleric(Liught)11/Monk(Kensei)5. She's cool and works fairly well as a worshiper of Eilistraee. But, cool as it is, it is *not* optimized, and I think she'd have been better off as simply a Cleric, or simply a Monk. Beween Bracers of Defense, a high DEX and high WIS she has a decent armor class that is further helped by Kensei. But again, I feel like she should have picked a class and stuck with it.
The last cleric is Cleric(Light)15/Bard(Lore)3. She was built to fit an idea, she is a courtier and spy. The Lore Bard gave her proficiency with an extra four total skills (and expertise on two of them), it didn't hurt her spell casting (I focused on no-save/no-attack Bard Spells). The two things that I don't like about the build are I (ignorantly) took Elemental Adept (Fire) and she will never see the Auto-Answered Divine Intervention.
At the end of the day, I love all of my clerics, but it is clear to me that single class clerics are, in most cases, the optimal choice :)
Thanks for the insightful videos.
My multiclass char had 2 levels life cleric, 2 levels moon druid, 6 levels bearbarian, 3 open hand monk and 1 rogue
He was super great and awesome
Oh yeah, he also was human variant for magic initiate for find familiar, presto and mage hand
We played from levels 2 - 14 with him as the only tank and healer, and i never rolled a death save, despite us fighting cr 20+ encounters most the way through
The battles were epic, but the stenanigans were doubly epic
Ill never forget Torval Frurirlbror Greenwold
I you want to get silly, 5 levels of Ranger (Gloom Stalker), 1 of War Cleric, and 2 of Fighter; you can get off 7 weapon attacks in the first round with Dread Ambush (3), Action Surge (3 more), and bonus action War Priest (1). And then 3 more then next round with War Priest. All depends on the Wisdom modifier. 10 ATTACKS IN THE FIRST 2 ROUNDS.
Probably want shilleagh then. I know you don't get the war cleric attack but landing the 6 hits in the first round is more important. But with hunters mark it is pretty nice way to get an extra 7d6 damage in the first round (assuming you have time to prepare)
@@moto2442 For sure, there's plenty of things to do with the bonus action. I'm just saying, dipping one or two levels of War Cleric for a Ranger is really good. War Priest, extra spells, Channel Divinity, etc.
@@goodgulfgas Your original comment has kind of inspired me into trying to work out the best way to get as many attacks and bonuses to attacks as possible.
I'm thinking melee paladin oathbreaker with a quaterstaff taking the dueling fighting style. 8 paladin, 2 levels of hexblade warlock, 3 of gloom stalker ranger, 2 of fighter and then I'm not sure. Maybe paladin to 12 and ranger to 4. So you end up as a 7th level caster with 2 warlock slots. And 4 asi.
2 for Cha to 20 and 1 polearm master the other sentinel/elven accuracy.
So on the first round of combat you get 4 attacks each doing 1d6+1d6(hex)+12(5 from Aura of hate, 5 from hex warrior, 2 from dueling)= 4*(19) you deal also an additional 2d8 (one from improved smite and one from dread ambusher) you could also deal up to 4 times hex blade curse. If you use action surge you get an extra 3 attacks allowing you to deal an extra 61.5 damage boosting the total 126.5 without using the hexblade curse with it it is 188.5.
I would choose either half elf or Aasimar. I prefer half-elf for elven accuracy. This allows you to crit fish and with pal you can pile a bunch of extra damage on with smites.
The only downside with this build is it requires you to have 13 in Str, wis and dex aside from using Cha for attacking and casting. With point buy you can only get a +1 to con which sucks.
Hi Treantmonk!
What do you think of and how would you multiclass a Light Cleric? (Related question at the end)
I was thinking of taking a 2 level Wizard dip after hitting Cleric 5, then going straight Cleric after.
I've also considered building it as Cleric 14/Wizard 6, progressing to Cleric 5, then Wizard 2, then Cleric 8, then finishing off wizard before Cleric
I was leaning toward Evoker, but your mention of War Mage has me thinking. Bendy Fireballs, a Familiar and ritual casting all have a LOT of appeal though.
More details:
This is an established character
Aasimar (Stat mods are applied), Sage Background
STR 13, DEX 14, CON 16, WIS 18, INT 18, CHA 16
Do you know, can a Level 2 wizard put a level 5 wizard spell in their spell book once they have access to level 5 slots?
I think the answer is "No but they can upcast a level 1 spell to level 5" but I'm not sure.
The reason for this is access to higher level ritual spells.
Can a Cleric/wizard copy a spell that's shared on both lists into a wizard spellbook? Detect magic is my example here.
Unless I missed an Errata somewhere, you can absolutely cast your Cleric spell with Warlock spell slots and vice versa.
"Pact Magic. If you have both the Spellcasting class feature and the Pact Magic class feature from the warlock class, you feature to cast spells you know or have prepared from classes with the Spellcasting class feature, feature to cast warlock spells you know."
That feels disjointed to read. Could you say the source book and page?
RAW or not, the druid armor is the one rule I would never follow or suggest following for anyone (of course everyone is welcome to play the want they want to).
It's a stupid rule. It's one of the only fluffs that makes it into the rules and forcingly limits characters. I remember reading about a dwarf druid that liked fire and mountains and hated trees. That would have made a lot of sense to use metal armor. When you can reflavor a class to meet your needs to the extent that a Warlock doesn't require a patron*, a Cleric doesn't require a god*, and a Bard doesn't have to play any music*, why limit the Druid to only 'natural armors'?
Warlocks flavor text says they get their power from a patron, but it's been discussed that a
patron unlocks the inherent Warlock's skill (which was used to explain why they are CHA casters) and that it's inappropriate for just any Warlock to lose their powers because they stop working with their patron. At this point, you can minimize the patron's existence to nothing or nearly nothing. "I read a book once of [insert patron type here] secrets and it unlocked how to cast Warlock spells in my mind."
Clerics don't have to follow a god, they can follow a concept or philosophy. Which can include murder hobo haha.
Bards do need a musical instrument to cast spells, and they naturally gain proficiency in 3 instruments (1 if multiclassed). You do not have to play the instrument to cast spells, just hold it. At some point, an arcane focus with some holes in it (i.e. a long flute) works just as well. Although I would say that an instrument is one that is listed, it's hard to argue against certain instruments that are so simple that they are effectively a stick (arcane focus like) or some druid/holy symbol.
Point is, one of the best things about this channel is have a character concept and make the rules fit that character (I love the example with necro wizards, the light spell is a sickly green light, the fireball spell is similar etc.) It's unfortunate that almost all rules like this can easily be reflavored but the druid's no metal armor stays, especially when it can make no sense.
/Rant
Druid armor just means you need to get woodcarvers instead of smiths to make armor and maybe find a exotic wood fit for form if making heavy armor (aka common to uncommon cost increase equivalent so 2~4x cost).
Also no, a warlock requires a patron in the same way how a paladin* requires a god or godlike creature (no divine rank creature that is aligned with the ideals of the oath = no source to get the divine magic for the "zeal" to manifest, both are required *except for oathbreakers where its also explicitly the reverse). No patron = no pact boon or pact slots till you get a new patron or return to the good graces because those features explicitly call upon the patron granting them each time.
Paladins don't require a god in 5E. Warlocks can get their power reading from a book about a patron like creature and never interact with them or the book again.
You sound like a DM that would not allow certain character designs because of rules in your mind of how things should be. You are welcome to play how you want of course, I will keep not playing that way myself.
@@RavenWolfStarcraft2 Every paladin except for Oathbreaker depends on there being a god that aligns with their ideals/require a god to have any powers other than fighting style, read the PHB again.
I did, I don't see it. Please quote or cite the page that you want me to read.
There is support that they don't from sage advice. Right here.www.sageadvice.eu/2016/10/23/are-paladins-required-to-follow-a-deity/
@@RavenWolfStarcraft2 1) Sage advice twatter has no effect on the game and not even on RAI, only official errata have any effect IF a table decides to use it.
2) "a paladin's power comes as much from a commitment to justice itself as IT DOES FROM A GOD." - phb 82.
3) about half the paladin features literally have DIVINE in their name
4) Oh and the little fact the PHB and SCAG spellcasting define divine casters and non-arcane magic drawn from the weave being directly tied to the (rest of the) gods (instead of just mystra).
Regarding Pal/Cleric MCs, a Paladin might want an option for a bonus action attack for nova rounds, like when fighting a boss. This is especially good in Adventurer's League, where almost every module ends in some sort of "main fight". By dipping War Cleric, a Pal can get a couple of bonus action attacks per day and can Smite 3 times in a turn. Bumping the wisdom enough to get 2 a day hurts other stats, but in Adv League you can trade things like Gauntlets of Ogre Power or a Hill Giant Str belt to your Pal, meaning the Pal only really needs 13 str, allowing Cha, Con and if doing this dip, Wis, to be high enough to be very optimized. Three smites a turn on a nova round is hard-hitting.
On Sorc/Cleric MCs, there is a somewhat silly combo that allows a single target massive damage attack - a "boss killer". Again in A.L. this can make sense, as we often face bosses at the end of modules. You go 2 lvls of Grave Cleric, race is Half Elf w; Elven Accuracy at lvl 4 (start w/ ch 17, bump it to 18). In tier 2 the big attack starts to come on line. The main attack works like this: you go up to the target, you use your action to use the Grave feature to make it vulnerable to the next attack, then use Quickened to do a bonus action casting of inflict wounds - and iirc you can use Empowered on this too - and you upcast inflict wounds to the max. At lvl 9 that's 7d10 but the target is vulnerable, so it is 7d10 x2 or 14 d10, w/e way the DM wants you to so it, or 70 points of damage. I almost forgot, make sure you get advantage on this attack - another party member can Help you, for example - and you roll 3d20 to attack. If you crit, even better. Normal damage is 75 on average, not taking into account Empowered, which may be worth it mathematically or may not - it would on average add at least some damage. But if you crit, you do 150. If you one-dip hexblade and cursed target on a previous round, you crit on a 19 or 20. This is a fun build to theory-craft; I've yet to try playing it.
Another consideration: if you're going to play a cleric to lvl 20 and if you're going to keep playing it at lvl 20 a while, if you so much as dip one level on the way, you sacrifice the ability once a week to get an automatic divine favor - which lvl 20 clerics consider "TPK insurance".
@Remy Boivin How is this comment relevant to what I said above? Yes, AL is magic item rich. No, most DMs don't/can't just restrict magic items, certainly not at AL cons or the organized store/AL places where I play. Look, what I said above is about tactical choices intrinsic to build approaches that has little to do w/ magic items. I play a lot of AL - I don't see the same builds all the time - people are very individualistic.
@Remy Boivin Oh DMs can do all sorts of things in AL ... once. Get it? Let it sink in before you pop off, please. I don't mean that flippantly - I am actually trying to be helpful.
@Remy Boivin I worry that you're not even trying to understand what I'm saying, while you keep repeating stuff I already know. I'm not going to reply to you any more unless you at least try to understand me.
@Remy Boivin believe what you want: we're speaking past each other. I strongly suspect that ego is more in play here than rationality - me as much as you. Good luck to you, though. Not replying to you again.
@Treantmonk's Temple which combination would you consider stronger with a tempest cleric. Three levels of eldritch knight or 1 favored soul sorcerer, 2 paladin? Both will give con proficiency and booming blade but I'm not sure if smite is worth being so mad vs. action surge and advantage on my attacks with find familiar.
I level sorcerer should do the trick nicely without holding back your spell progression to severely.
@@TreantmonksTemple So you think your Holy Trinity combination would be better than the tank of the gods combination as a tempest cleric?
Wow, blew right past Tempest Cleric multi class with Storm Sorcerer, huh? The destructive wrath channel divinity is so good with those two and helps the sorc squishyness with some armor.
Weirdly enough i think it's better as a dip on scribes wizard cause of that swapping out damage types ability of the awakened spellbook
If you roll some really good stats cleric/paladin can put in some serious work. I had a 14th level war cleric, and a 6th level vengeance paladin and after casting haste could dish out 4 attacks dealing 2d6+7d8+15 damage which is an average of 214 damage assuming every attack hits.
Resurrecting an old video... loxodon grave cleric and druid for spirit guardians? Not sure if this works as I think it would as Loxodon.
One thing that strikes me about Cleric/Paladin is that you’d better have a good reason not to go Pally/Sorc instead. You have access to all the same spells no slower than P/C if you go divine soul, without any MAD issues. If you don’t need a class or subclass feature of the Cleric, it seems like the weakest link.
My cleric second strongest ability score is charisma. While wisdom is 20 and cha is 16 and then con. So I have no issue with charisma classes and actually think they are the best options for me. My dex is -1 and strength is +2 so I need to avoid physical or ranged classes.
You seem to tend towards doing a lot tof lvl 2 or lvl 3 dips when you multiclass, thus skipping or delaying a lot of ASIs. Do you not consider ASIs very important from an optimiser's standpoint?
For a full caster spell and spell slot progression is even more important than ASI's
There are two schools of thought in d and d, IMO. The first is that feats are better than asi. Treatmonk seems to think until late tier two or early tier 3 your stats don’t matter that much. The second is stats matter more would rather take stats as they effect skills, stats, saves, hp, and armor class. But it also depends on the class. Spell caster just need one asi. The game seems to be balanced where you just have a 16 in your ability score until 8 for example. Another thing to note is if you don’t take 17 levels in a spell caster you cannot cast 9th level spells.
5e explicitly removed a lot of the importance for high stats. Advantage lets you ignore lower rolls a lot of the time, things like spell slots are no longer tied to stats, number of skills known no longer tied to a stat, etc. etc. So the choice between the marginal benefit of +1 stat bonus vs a feat or a multiclass for benefits is what you are deciding on.
justBinia thank you, that helped me out a lot. I didn’t get why treatmonk thought feats were better
The healing kit doesn't use the energy of the weave to mend flesh and raise vitality where Goodberry does though
Rune Knight + cleric for the increased size of spirit guardians is pretty good too ( question is, which do you want to lvl up, the fighter or the cleric, and that depends on wether or not you like using weapons as a player ).
love your videos! only criticism I have is i wish your intro/outro music weren't so loud D:
My Grave Domain cleric is having a hard time when targeted in melee... I end up having to waste quit a few spells staying up if I'm high on the initiative and targeted when with in melee range... im hoping to multi in to genie lock or some sort of wizard for a few spells to get out of range or make me more survivable.... any suggestions?
Just sort of dabbling with D&D for the first time. Was thinking about creating either a War Cleric/ Gloom Stalker Ranger or Life Cleric/GloomStalker Ranger. Would you recommend taking the 5 levels of Ranger first before attempting the Cleric levels?
Do many people actually play in those manhattan distance worlds with sqare spheres? It's kinda not fair and makes the spells a lot stronger than they should be.
Not many reasons to MC Paladin with Cleric when Divine Soul exists.
Unless you want twice as many spells
@@TreantmonksTemple If you are playing with the UA class variant rules the fewer known spells becomes much less debilitating for bards sorcerers and warlocks.
With it Divine soul becomes the best caster in the game in my opinion. The cleric list is brilliant and some of the spells are ridiculous when combined by metamagic. On top of that you get most of the spells that the wizard gets with a few powerful exceptions. You get concentration free flight at level 14. The only downside is the lack of armour but a 2-3 level dip into hexblade solves that issue and can line you up for a powerful build.
Treantmonk's Temple Do you want twice as many spells, most of which are garbage with your 13 Wis, or do you want a smaller but the best curated spell list in the game that actually uses your casting stat?
@@M0ebius and as I said in my comment spell versatility makes up for any weakness in that regard. If you take hexblade as well you can only focus on one stat charisma and means you can grab auto-takes and save your sorcerer spells for more interesting spells.
Joseph Webley Yeah I pretty much only play Hexblade dipped builds.
You forgot to mention with the ranger multiclass that you also get Hail of Thorns, which, when you have multiclassed to full caster, is basically an AoE smite with ranged attacks, going up to 6d10 bonus damage, and it's magical piercing damage, which very few things are resistant or immune to.
totally forgot to mention the arcane trickster for rogue
Stone shape can be used to make stone armor
I wanted to play a light cleric. However I also wanted to start with Con saves and I wanted heavy armor. So I took my first level as a fighter. Went variant human with the Warcaster feat. Str16, Dex10, Con14, Int8, Wis16, Cha8. Is it more powerful than pure light cleric, no, but it IS more tanky, and the party I am playing in consists of players who do not understand their tank roles and are 'far' from optimized.
Anyone have thoughts on doing the ranger/cleric multiclass with gloomstalker/UA Twilight Domain?
Something that I've always worked around when it comes to the Cleric/druid mix is having the medium/heavier armors crafted out of animal parts. Quite a few turtle creatures have a very high natural AC, with the dragon turtle at a natural 20, and you could also do something similar to dragonplate like in skyrim where you use the bones of large magical creatures and the like.
paladins, rangers and druids are the usual multiclass suspects as they all use the wisdom modifier to some degree and have cleric type of spells, and can offer the cleric some martial weapon proficiencies.
I need some help now....I have a warforged cleric but I want to multi class with druid......would that be possible or would that be conflicting with itself
lots of stuff to say about druid dipping.
1st, if you are going to 20 just go pure Druid, its the best level 20 class and you dont want to waste a level 20 adventure.
2nd, you are wrong. My Druid cleric wears platemail. I had to pry the shell off a Giant beetle and laquer it, combining the pieces with some Bullette hide i harvested but now im an AC 22 druid (with my shield and shield of faith)
you forgot about the advantage of going small with Spirit guardians. if you are a tiny spider on the ceiling in the swirling storm of vengeful animal spirits you are both out of the way of most attacks and can hide easily , so the stampede of ghostly animals appear to be out of freaking nowhere and completely unstoppable.
I made a death cleric/rouge as a a Fallen Aasmiar and I had tons of fun
So I am interested in the Fighter 3 /War Domain cleric 17 mix and taking TWF for 1st fighter feat and either Rune or Eldritch at level 3 but I see on D&D beyond that both of those level 3 fighting styles are still considered UA/playtest and not legal in D&D Adventure league which is where I plan to play. Is this true? Do Adventure league DMs allow the play test or UA rules in Adventure league? If so I'd just choose human and take initiate Fighting style- TWF as a starting feat (UA also) and stay War domain Cleric the whole way with no multiclassing. Ps. sounds like your examples are 3.5 or Pathfinder (Sacred weapon is pathfinder) not 5e. Please advise.
Monk with divine favor is pretty good though
Gotta disagree on the Artificer one. Battlesmith mostly eliminates the need for a Str/Dex score for the most part and the new Armorer (which may not have been out when you did the video) COMPLETELY eliminates it. To be fair, the Battle Smith Steel Defender kinda steps on the toes of Spiritual Weapon, but with its ability to grant you advantage and the enemy disadvantage it kinda beats out SW, in my opinion. Especially if you have a good DM that lets you really be an Artificer and build cool magic weapons.
Plus the flavour of a Forge Cleric and an Artificer is just scrumptious. Haha
Hi Treatmonl! What do you think about the echo knight? 6 levels for sentinel and great weapon master then cleric
Advice on what cleric subclasses fit better? Thank you :)
Usually, an MC dip isn't worth it unless the added benefits from the MC outweigh any losses of Capstones, ASI's, and/or Spell Slot progression.
This is especially noticeable in homebrew campaigns where Feats are banned.
In the case of a Life Domain Cleric, for example, trying to MC into Warlock, will cause you to lose out on the Supreme Healing Capstone, but it might be worth it if a person MC's into Warlock (Pact of the Chain) and takes the Gift of the Ever-Living Ones Eldritch Invocation.
But there is a trade off there, and it's a fairly severe one. The problem here is that it requires a minimum commitment of 3 Levels into Warlock, thus stripping the PC of the following from their Cleric levels:
1. Their last ASI.
2. The loss of certain 8th/9th level slots.
3. Their 3rd Channel Divinity, and most importantly,
4. The loss of your Divine Intervention Improvement at level 20 (which is an automatic success when it's used).
And out of the deal, at best, you get 2 E.I.'s out of the deal (one of which has to be used for Gift of the Ever-Living Ones), EB (eldritch blast), a couple of extra known spells and a couple of "free" spell slots to upcast stuff to level 2.
That's not exactly what I would call a profitable tradeoff.
As far as MC'ing a Cleric into a Ranger? Playing a DEX fighter is frankly much more effective (using Archery Style with Second Wind, Action Surge, and Improved Crit.), as it requires less of a class dip.
Really, there's very little reason, other than for sheer RP value, to MC away from Cleric, unless your stats are so bad that you have no choice but to do so, just to survive.
As a final bit on all of this, the best healing spells don't use hit dice at all (Power Word Heal, Mass Heal, etc.), and so the Supreme Healing feature might not get all that much mileage by the time you get to level 17.
(Personally, I think the major thing missing from the Cleric subclass is the lack of a ranged spell attack cantrip that's universal across the entire class. And no, the saving throw based cantrips don't really count.)
But that's just my 2 cents. 👍