Same, I was frustrated in the moment, but I looked at the 4th pick draft again and we may have dodged a bullet. Suggs looked so happy he didn't have to go to Toronto, while Scottie looked hyped. A person who wants to be there will develop faster (since they're much more open minded) versus someone who doesn't want to go there
They essentially averaged the same numbers except scoring, except Barnes did it in 6 fewer minutes per game, and with a better assist to turnover ratio against more challenging opponents in their division.
I’m guessing nobody is talking about the real master plan: Masai letting Suggs go to Orlando to be ruined so he can fish him up 5 years down the line for rebuilding.
The things is that this is a move for the future. The east is currently dominated by KD/Harden and Giannis, who are gonna be the favs in the east. Raptors currently don’t have two wings that can handle these players. Barnes can do that. Suggs can help you offensively but won’t help you defensively against these top players in the east. The finals proved that you can have all the offence in the world (the Suns) and still have no chance of winning because you don’t have anyone to guard Giannis
Agree. Our 2019 champion year was full of elite defenders (Kyle, Kawhi, Gasol in his better years, Siakam, etc). Without Kawhi, Siakam and Gasol as the human walls against Giannis, we wouldn't have won the championship.
People need to chill because Scottie looks like he is already built to withstand the pounding of the NBA. Besides Suggs was a pre-draft choice not the choice. Masai and team have done their homework and I am rocking with their decision. Let's go Raptors!
If we had have picked Suggs I'd be 100% sure that Lowry was gone now I think theres a 50-50 chance we match any offer he receives and he ends his career as a Raptor.
1 day later after seeing the draft, I think you are right Also I have read comments on people saying Suggs workout session was bad, and he was giving poor attitude.
The next raps core we could be seeing is OG and Scottie (and possible rings from that core) just as long as Scottie gets that jump shot worked out and there's good players around them I can all so see him running point
I learned my lesson way back in 95. Everyone was upset and booed that the Raps drafted Damon Stoudamire over Ed Obannon, I thought that the "experts" were right back then before I got the chance to actually watch Damon play. Not saying that the "experts" are always wrong, they could be right about Suggs, but I'm gonna wait to actually see Suggs and Barnes in-game.
Suggs has literally played only one year of basketball. He, unlike Barnes, is actually a freak athlete - somewhat in terms of first step, but mostly in baseline to baseline floor speed, and also a serious vertical as well. Barnes has all the juicy "stats" that Toronto is apparently infatuated with like size, weight and length, but his athleticism is being overblown - particularly in the Giannis comparisons. He doesn't have that impressive of a first step - he's fluid, but I wouldn't characterize him as a freak athlete, or whatever nonsense Ben Rogers is talking about with him being the fourth most athletic player drafted ever. Athleticism is visible in changes in movement more than merely fluidic motion. Barnes is a good, maybe borderline very good athlete. But he is not Giannis like in his twitchiness. This quality of 'twitchiness' is what you see in Giannis, or in Blake Griffin. Barnes is not in this category. I see him relying upon raw strength more than an ability to blow by defenders. Am I saying Barnes may not develop into a serious player? No. I just think the Magic-Johnson like comparisons have everything to do with the ability to shoot. Average or ok athletes like Luka Doncic, for instance, make up for the sluggishness with extreme levels of feel for the game, but also, having a jumper. Without a jumper, you can't get spacing, and therefore you can't just do what you want out. This is the intensity of the risk with Barnes: if he doesn't learn to shoot, we drafted a very good defender who is a liability when you need him to hit a jumper.
@@factsmatter7442 I’ve only watched Suggs in a few March madness games. And I do see the potential, but it’s only a few games and that’s not enough for me to be making any comments on his game. Barnes on the other hand, I haven’t watched him in-game at all. I see all the draft reports and the UA-cam highlights for both guys, but it really isn’t enough for me to say one way or the other that either player is this or that. For instance I know that they say Barnes can’t shoot, but I want to see for myself, in-game, how bad his shooting really is. I do think that there is potential in Barnes, I’m just not completely sold on him yet. Like I said I want to see both Suggs and Barnes play in-game against NBA competition before saying Barnes is a bust or Suggs is a franchise altering talent or vice versa. I guess that’s just a really long way of saying I just don’t trust what NBA media puts out there LOL.
@@Ramos-Lavina I guess that's reasonable, to an extent. But there's also reason in deferring to what NBA experts believe to be the case about any particular talent or situation. It's true and mature of you to acknowledge that neither you nor I nor the two newfoundlanders talking are sufficiently experienced enough to have a clear enough sense of what we're saying. I think I caught one game of Barnes playing, and I watched a few games of Suggs as well. I've watched highlights, and being an athlete myself, I'm particularly attuned to bodily movement, flexibility, etc, so I feel competent enough to comment here. But basketball wise, which has much to do with "how much knowledge" or comparisons, a person has, pretty much everyone commenting is to one degree or another a casual basketball watcher. We're not professional scouts, or executives, or basketball analysts. Thus, what I can do, is defer to people who are scouts, executives, and basketball analysts, and get a sense of what the consensus is. Is consensus always right? No. But is it reasonable to defer to consensus, especially when you don't know enough? I think so. But as you said, things could turn out differently, consensus could be wrong, the Raps management could end up being right, and all this commentary could be in vain. Suggs does seem to look like the better choice, and he would have been the 'safe bet'; what I don't like, and find irritating, however, is how Bobby Webster tried to pass off the Barnes selection as not being risky - or not having anything to do with risk. It's clearly a risk when you have two prospects, each with their own virtues, and you can only pick one. You're betting on one over the other - you're taking a risk that will end up being better than the other. You're also betting taht this 6'8 style lineup will work, when many scouts and analysts I've been reading since they've discovered Toronto's draft plan are looking a bit askance at that idea.
@@factsmatter7442 I do think that pro scouts are the best source of info when it comes to evaluating draft talent, because they are the ones that actually go through the footage, analyze the stats, attend games, talk to college coaching staff etc. However, the NBA analysts that fans see on tv/youtube are not the same pro scouts. From what I understand a lot of analysts try to get their info from pro scouts, but obviously pro scouts won't provide their most in-depth research on any particular draft candidates. If anything, I think fans can get a vague idea a rookies skill set from what the NBA media puts out in public... but it shouldn't be taken as gospel. So in Scottie Barnes case, he's strong and athletic, similar to Giannis, does that mean that he's gonna come into the NBA and play like the Greek Freak? I don't think so, but there is a level of strength and athleticism that is there. He can't shoot, does that mean that he can't score and he'll be turning down shots like Ben Simmons? Again I don't think so, but I do expect him to have below average shooting percentages coming in. I do agree with you that Suggs appears to be the better choice right now, but I think there is risk taken in both players. Barnes skill set is less refined when compared to Suggs and will need to work to catch up to him. And with Suggs there is risk in investing long term in smaller hyper athletic players as well. Some are injury prone because they aren't capable of absorbing the physicality of NBA level competition, some have short careers because once age takes away their athletic advantage they have nothing to fall back on (if they don't develop their skills through out their career). One thing that some fans forget is the the Raptors have gone on record saying that they're not just evaluating how good a player is right now, but also how good that player will be 3 or 4 years down the line, so ya Suggs could be the better player now but there might be something the Raptors see that make them believe that Barnes will pan out in the long run. Again, I'm just not completely sold on either guy, but I'm def keeping a close eye on both players this season.
@@Ramos-Lavina Scottie Barnes is definitely strong, and broad shouldered, but there is a definite lack to his first step which disturbs me. I've been watching footage of him, and I agree with others whove made an issue of this. He doesn't have that twichiness that Giannis has, so I wonder, how will he score? Can he beat defenders off the dribble? This is a bigger worry than most people are acknowledging. Barnes has very good life for his size (36 standing vert) and a 39 inch max vert. He moves very well, but not Giannis like. Giannis is a transcendental athlete. Extremely rare at that height. As for Barnes down the road, how does that jibe with our current core of van vleet, siakam and anunoby, who in three years will be 31, 31, and 27? Barnes, right now, worries me. I assume scouts see what could be there. I see some kawhi Leonard like skills, or potential, rather, in the sense of his body size, length, and burst off the ground. Plus he's 2 inches taller. But he doesn't have that quick first step like Siakam, for example, who does have it. Or Bosh, who was very unusual at that height to blow by defenders as he did. So what can we expect from Barnes. I honestly get why analysts are so confused about him. He's a great leader, great defender, has got very good lateral quick. Has a very good feel for whats happening around him. Yet he doesn't really have an iso game. Now that we have him, I hope he develops one. But the effectiveness of that iso game is going to be predicated on his ability to shoot, otherwise defenders will just sag on him.
Scottie Barnes' favourite player and the one upon which he modelled his game is Magic Johnson. He likewise has 6'9 PG written in his instagram header. I can't wait to see him play the point guard position for our team. He is going to be a beast.
I’m excited for Scottie to take Siakam’s place in taking the ball up to halfcourt alongside VanFleet. Siakam needs to be the first to take off to the opponent’s basket like he used to in his first few years.
both suggs and Barnes are gonna grow into the league, i can see Barnes eclipsing suggs in 3 years and become the better player, also pg like suggs who are more finished in skillset and don't have the raw athleticism don't rlly grow and level up like the siakams and Giannis. the amount room scottie has compared to suggs is a lot more and Toronto is def the place to do it, the key is TOR drafted him and we will absolutely get the most out of him and his athletics
All you need to know is that any team after us would’ve taken Barnes over Suggs too. Positionless player who is in fact a point guard? Absolute must draft. I’m ecstatic
Important is attitude. Does Barnes have the will to become great? Giannis worked hard asf to get to the goal, he didn't born as tough as he is, he worked relentless for it.
Damn I thought his wingspan was 7’1. 7’3 is even crazier. Dude is gonna be a lockdown defender at the very worst, and if he develops a nice shot he could be, like OG, one of the best 3 and D players in the league. Leaning more towards the D side
They play nothing alike though, Barnes already has passable handles and playmaking skills. OG in his current form does not have handles or any real play making skills. OG is a great shooter though, something Barnes isn't yet. But his new form looks better than OG and Siakams, it just depends on if he can translate them into real games. I personally see a faster improvement trajectory for Barnes compared to OB since he already has a natural feel for the game whereas OG still looks quite awkward on offense when the ball is in his hands. We're blessed to have both though, crazy to think about them playing together.
The Jamaican 🇯🇲 Freak baby! Cool Runnings...not T Rex, but B Rex. SB 4 era has begun. When Barnes becomes polished with someone like Holmes we will be unstoppable. Imagine the defense 😳 plus ➕ the offence if he runs point! Re sign Johnson for his defense depth, he can guard top 25 players.
Never cared tbh, whether suggs or barnes is a good pick. Then scottie talked to the media, the fans...and im already planning to buy his jersey. This guy is humble, hard working, defense minded and has a chip on his shoulder. He's the definition of a raptor.
I can’t wait for the vid on the two second round picks! Some ppl said Dalano Banton’s ceiling is Brandon Ingram with defense! Not a bad take, his crossovers are deadly and he’s pretty quick ngl. David Johnson was projected late lottery earlier in the yr, he might be special
Great pod as always guys. Always love your takes. Great day for the North. Lol about Grange deleting stuff. Who cares if someone predicts the draft. it's all for love of the game. Own it and get excited is the way to go. Great reaction from you guys. Classy. Also, those Jalen Suggs' assists were hand in hand with his Gawdy turnovers for a ball handler who has played in the systems he was groomed in. Jack would lose it: "You gotta take care of the rock!" Lastly, this part made me howl. Ben: Ryker is totally right. Barnes is not ready to play center. He can switch onto one when need be and rely on his length, frame and footwork to be disruptive and front. But there are a lot of opposing centers who would exploit us if we did this. We learned this lesson last season. Remember how noticeable it was when we simply got a blue collar guy like Khen and freddie who can run a pick and roll and play their roles? Night and day.
Giannis, jokic, dirk, Nash, harden (actually didn't enter the league expected to be as great as he is). There's been a lot of MVPs that didn't enter the league with amazingly high expectations
Ben Webster said in his post draft presser that the team envisions that Barnes could play the 5 during small ball lineups, but not full time. I think they’re at least going to experiment with it at some point
Mark Yoshi's words, Scottie Barnes is the perfect player to defend with our team as it is. Og siakam and scottie all can help boucher inside on d so we can play him more. We are going to go small ball and really lock people down. I miss our defense being this good and it will be beautiful.
Having Scottie will take pressure off Fred to facilitate, I don’t like Fred at the point either but he’s a great leader, good defence for his size, he was there for the championship and played a crucial role. Fred looked better when we had gasol. Fred is also a a great catch and shoot player.
If they bring back Kyle Lowry this pick will be an even more solid pick. Starters: Kyle, FVV, OG, Pascal, F/A Center Bench: Flynn, GTJ, Barnes, Boucher, Birch Deep Bench: DJohnson, Watson, SJohnson, Watanabe, Gillespie *Dalano Banton (905)
That lineup has issues. I’d rather have GTJ be a starter for the height at SG and Lowry is clearly better than Fred but we paid FVV 85 mil and we can’t have 85 mil sitting on the bench. I don’t see a good reason for Lowry to stay. We ain’t winning with that lineup and he doesn’t have many years left
@@notsocooldude7720 Raptors finished with second best record in the NBA two seasons ago and three seasons ago won the NBA championship with that backcourt. A good reason for Lowry to stay is because he likes playing for Toronto plus Toronto can-will pay him 20-25 million per season. Recognize game.
@@IceManLikeGervin You’re right but there’s also certain matchup where that backcourt gets eaten alive. FVV was unplayable in the sixers series in 2019 and struggled against the Celtics in 2020. The lack of size can be a big issue in certain matchups
I don’t think we have the cap space to do that because Kyle wants the same money he’s getting now, GTJ wants more money, we need to pay Birch who we were getting for 1 mil last year I think. Plus we have to add a decent center
Longer-term, could become a "small" center and secondary "point", playing the 5 like Arvydas Sabonis, Nikola Jokic, and to a more modest extent, prime Marc Gasol.
My biggest concern is how Nick Nurse utilizes his new guys. We have seen that he tends to "bench" our new guys and don't give them enough minutes to develop. We really need to start Barnes and give him as much time on the court as possible to develop. I don't want to see Barnes picking up 10-15 min a game like TD and a few other newer players we have had.
Trust in NN and the org to do what's best for the players. They have a track record with developing FVV, OG, Powell Pascal, Boucher, etc. And don't forget, they got us our first chip!
Yep, Steve Nash drafted 15th was 2x mvp. Even Curry was a lower pick than Barnes and everyone thought he was too small, etc. So he definitely didn’t have that much heat. Also Dirk didn’t have that much heat either
I think most Raptors fans are not upset about getting Scottie Barnes. They are more upset at the Raptors for not getting any assets for giving up someone who was a consensus top 4.
I TOLD Y’ALL!!! SCOTTIE BAAAAAARNES! For those who have followed all the noise around Barnes in the draft process Barnes has had GM’s drooling over him. He can play PG as a Forward with the best of a marriage between Ben Simmons and Draymond Green who has an infection energy that Raptors core players exude, a la Kyle Lowry and Pascal Siakim. If Lowry leaves I won’t be shocked if Barnes is running the point with Fred VanVleet from Day 1.
Honestly yes. Having him on the court will give us the defensive boost. That's what I could see him becoming. A kawahi Leonard that passes. Thats assuming he can do the once in a decade thing of developing a deep repertoire of offensive moves and shots.
It's a great pick. the raptors don't need another small guard. Just because the media says we should pick doesn't mean its the correct choice for the Raptors.
Suggs was the consolation prize of the top 4 Barnes gets us a tier up maybe or a few tiers down risk. All the Rooks take a few years no matter position. The arguments you make on Suggs and argue for depth is why the over pay pick swap + future pick wind a way to Mobley. I know we all love Tim’s but we don’t want doughnut hole for team we already saw that last year. Look at the last 3 Champs. Big C & PF that can score some.
No he's not they have Scottie Barnes already his name is o.g they're losing Lowry so Suggs will be a perfect pick and fit . They took at back up college player
@@ryanmcphee8451 bro I get your point we all do , but if they chose Scottie over a need “if Lowry leaves “ that must tell you that they truely believe in the guy . And everyone always goes off the mock draft yes they are pros and know they’re shit but they don’t work for the raps nor are they in with the coaches . Only the raps know what they need
@@ryanmcphee8451 and Og plays 3-5 you should know that if your a raps fan . So Scottie does not effect Og . It’s pascal that is leaving Scottie and Og will have to be the forwards . Hopefully they pick up Allen . That’s a fucken insane d line up . Fred can carry the pg roll
Reports just came out that OKC made a offer to us for the 4th pick as they really wanted Barnes . Only sure thing that is known now is that obvs we would have gotten the 6th pick and don't know much else atm. I'm dying to know if they offered Shai ??? There's no way right ? I don't even wanna know on second thought lol I would die if they offered Shai for Barnes
People are giving him Draymond green comparisons but I can see him more being of a Jimmy butler type player if he develops to his full potential, 6’8/6’9 guard elite defender and can initiate the offence whilst creating chances for himself and other, sounds more Jimmy than draymond to me
people get too worked up about getting everyone ready on the same timeline and often trade players that they shouldnt have for short term gains that often dont pan out at expense of long term success. The Jays did that a few years ago depleting their pitching staff in their farm system to feed their big league franchise that didnt even yield a trip to the finals. Same thing in basketball, if it takes Barnes 3 or 5 years and he becomes an MVP caliber player then it takes 3 to 5 years and you bring in pieces or alter accordingly. Its better to keep a core together and let them grow than shuffle crap around and be like the Lakers or other teams that try for quick championships. Rarely does that work.
Seriously? Only Giannis? Nope... Kawhi, Kobe, all those guys either picked below 10th or even lower and they all turned out to be superstars. Kawhi didn't know how to shoot. Barnes comes in with more hype. The guy in red is being a bit negative. We're talking about ceiling here, doesn't mean it will happen 100%. Hype up your man, Barnes has GREAT potential. Ceiling? Superstar, MVP.
suggs 4.5 assists(2.9 TO) in 28.9min on a loaded gonzaga team. scottie 4.1 assists (2.5 TO) in 24.8min. Pretty comparable. Scottie's attitude/enthusiasm trumps Suggs' reaction after being drafted by ORL.
I really just hope we land Lonzo with a sign n trade , and if not than Dinwiddie is also a great replacement for Lowry . And than a big Man n we good to go
I don’t care about timeline. It’s gonna be what it’s going to be. Players get traded and other things happen. Just take the best player available and let the Raps figure it out.
I feel like y'all are over hyping it 🤣 🤣 🤣 (edit): no way in hell we are playing him as the center! We need to play him as a point forward or magic Johnson style of play!
If the Raptors sign-and-trade Lowry and a 2nd rounder for 25M to a team with cap space and take nothing in return, will that earn the Raptors a trade exception?
Suggs doesn't want to be in toronto... why are "fans" still salty about our great pick scottie. Nick nurse since last year's draft wanted depth in the wings.
Um. Nahhh. Pascal is an All-Star player. He was injured last year and had covid. He wasn't playing in Toronto at all. I like LeVert and I have mad respect for him but I don't think he would be an All-Star type player. He'd still be nice on the Raps tho. I just want Siakam, OG and SB playing together. Lol. LeVert is such a cool dude. Heard him on JJ's Podcast.
What is Scottie Barnes' Ceiling as a player?
Fuck it. Magic Johnson
Magic
the sky
Charles Barkley
…jk Magic!! Let’s go raps 🇨🇦🏆🏀
The funny thing, is the more I think about it, the more the Scottie B pick makes more sense. Personally at least
Same, I was frustrated in the moment, but I looked at the 4th pick draft again and we may have dodged a bullet. Suggs looked so happy he didn't have to go to Toronto, while Scottie looked hyped. A person who wants to be there will develop faster (since they're much more open minded) versus someone who doesn't want to go there
Per usage Barnes actually had a higher assist ratio than suggs.
Cause he’s a better player bro.. he just didn’t play on a loaded team.
They essentially averaged the same numbers except scoring, except Barnes did it in 6 fewer minutes per game, and with a better assist to turnover ratio against more challenging opponents in their division.
I’m guessing nobody is talking about the real master plan:
Masai letting Suggs go to Orlando to be ruined so he can fish him up 5 years down the line for rebuilding.
One thing that I’m happy about is that this pick solidifies Garry as a starter next year too
Nah we might sign Dinwiddie or Lonzo and run FVV at shooting guard
How? Kyle can still come back and start with FVV. I wouldn't trust GTJ as a full time starter. He was a sixth man in Portland.
@@davidk9768 I don’t think it makes all that much sense to do that now tbh
@@IceManLikeGervin when he started in portland he was great tho
@@Htiy Well those rumours came out after the draft so we’ll see
The things is that this is a move for the future. The east is currently dominated by KD/Harden and Giannis, who are gonna be the favs in the east. Raptors currently don’t have two wings that can handle these players. Barnes can do that. Suggs can help you offensively but won’t help you defensively against these top players in the east. The finals proved that you can have all the offence in the world (the Suns) and still have no chance of winning because you don’t have anyone to guard Giannis
I mean we do have OG but now having another guy who can help OG shut down top wings. This could unlock OG potential on the Offensive end.
OG 20 pts a game incoming
Agree. Our 2019 champion year was full of elite defenders (Kyle, Kawhi, Gasol in his better years, Siakam, etc). Without Kawhi, Siakam and Gasol as the human walls against Giannis, we wouldn't have won the championship.
BARNES can get us boards and defend at this level. In time he will develop scoring.
Keep S.Johnson as role defender on the team.
Bro is gonna be way better then snuggs! He’s a freak for a PG
He’s not a point guard in the NBA
@@henrywhite6553 your probably rite, but he will have the skill of a PG which is good
I really like you two! This is a great channel!
That look from Ben at 5:33 after he fixed the problem had me dying 😂 this is part of why I love this channel 😂
People need to chill because Scottie looks like he is already built to withstand the pounding of the NBA. Besides Suggs was a pre-draft choice not the choice. Masai and team have done their homework and I am rocking with their decision. Let's go Raptors!
If we had have picked Suggs I'd be 100% sure that Lowry was gone now I think theres a 50-50 chance we match any offer he receives and he ends his career as a Raptor.
1 day later after seeing the draft, I think you are right
Also I have read comments on people saying Suggs workout session was bad, and he was giving poor attitude.
Well Lowry is gone now.
The next raps core we could be seeing is OG and Scottie (and possible rings from that core) just as long as Scottie gets that jump shot worked out and there's good players around them I can all so see him running point
I learned my lesson way back in 95. Everyone was upset and booed that the Raps drafted Damon Stoudamire over Ed Obannon, I thought that the "experts" were right back then before I got the chance to actually watch Damon play. Not saying that the "experts" are always wrong, they could be right about Suggs, but I'm gonna wait to actually see Suggs and Barnes in-game.
Suggs has literally played only one year of basketball. He, unlike Barnes, is actually a freak athlete - somewhat in terms of first step, but mostly in baseline to baseline floor speed, and also a serious vertical as well. Barnes has all the juicy "stats" that Toronto is apparently infatuated with like size, weight and length, but his athleticism is being overblown - particularly in the Giannis comparisons. He doesn't have that impressive of a first step - he's fluid, but I wouldn't characterize him as a freak athlete, or whatever nonsense Ben Rogers is talking about with him being the fourth most athletic player drafted ever. Athleticism is visible in changes in movement more than merely fluidic motion. Barnes is a good, maybe borderline very good athlete. But he is not Giannis like in his twitchiness. This quality of 'twitchiness' is what you see in Giannis, or in Blake Griffin. Barnes is not in this category. I see him relying upon raw strength more than an ability to blow by defenders.
Am I saying Barnes may not develop into a serious player? No. I just think the Magic-Johnson like comparisons have everything to do with the ability to shoot. Average or ok athletes like Luka Doncic, for instance, make up for the sluggishness with extreme levels of feel for the game, but also, having a jumper. Without a jumper, you can't get spacing, and therefore you can't just do what you want out. This is the intensity of the risk with Barnes: if he doesn't learn to shoot, we drafted a very good defender who is a liability when you need him to hit a jumper.
@@factsmatter7442 I’ve only watched Suggs in a few March madness games. And I do see the potential, but it’s only a few games and that’s not enough for me to be making any comments on his game. Barnes on the other hand, I haven’t watched him in-game at all. I see all the draft reports and the UA-cam highlights for both guys, but it really isn’t enough for me to say one way or the other that either player is this or that. For instance I know that they say Barnes can’t shoot, but I want to see for myself, in-game, how bad his shooting really is. I do think that there is potential in Barnes, I’m just not completely sold on him yet. Like I said I want to see both Suggs and Barnes play in-game against NBA competition before saying Barnes is a bust or Suggs is a franchise altering talent or vice versa. I guess that’s just a really long way of saying I just don’t trust what NBA media puts out there LOL.
@@Ramos-Lavina I guess that's reasonable, to an extent. But there's also reason in deferring to what NBA experts believe to be the case about any particular talent or situation. It's true and mature of you to acknowledge that neither you nor I nor the two newfoundlanders talking are sufficiently experienced enough to have a clear enough sense of what we're saying. I think I caught one game of Barnes playing, and I watched a few games of Suggs as well. I've watched highlights, and being an athlete myself, I'm particularly attuned to bodily movement, flexibility, etc, so I feel competent enough to comment here.
But basketball wise, which has much to do with "how much knowledge" or comparisons, a person has, pretty much everyone commenting is to one degree or another a casual basketball watcher. We're not professional scouts, or executives, or basketball analysts. Thus, what I can do, is defer to people who are scouts, executives, and basketball analysts, and get a sense of what the consensus is. Is consensus always right? No. But is it reasonable to defer to consensus, especially when you don't know enough? I think so. But as you said, things could turn out differently, consensus could be wrong, the Raps management could end up being right, and all this commentary could be in vain.
Suggs does seem to look like the better choice, and he would have been the 'safe bet'; what I don't like, and find irritating, however, is how Bobby Webster tried to pass off the Barnes selection as not being risky - or not having anything to do with risk. It's clearly a risk when you have two prospects, each with their own virtues, and you can only pick one. You're betting on one over the other - you're taking a risk that will end up being better than the other. You're also betting taht this 6'8 style lineup will work, when many scouts and analysts I've been reading since they've discovered Toronto's draft plan are looking a bit askance at that idea.
@@factsmatter7442 I do think that pro scouts are the best source of info when it comes to evaluating draft talent, because they are the ones that actually go through the footage, analyze the stats, attend games, talk to college coaching staff etc. However, the NBA analysts that fans see on tv/youtube are not the same pro scouts. From what I understand a lot of analysts try to get their info from pro scouts, but obviously pro scouts won't provide their most in-depth research on any particular draft candidates. If anything, I think fans can get a vague idea a rookies skill set from what the NBA media puts out in public... but it shouldn't be taken as gospel. So in Scottie Barnes case, he's strong and athletic, similar to Giannis, does that mean that he's gonna come into the NBA and play like the Greek Freak? I don't think so, but there is a level of strength and athleticism that is there. He can't shoot, does that mean that he can't score and he'll be turning down shots like Ben Simmons? Again I don't think so, but I do expect him to have below average shooting percentages coming in. I do agree with you that Suggs appears to be the better choice right now, but I think there is risk taken in both players. Barnes skill set is less refined when compared to Suggs and will need to work to catch up to him. And with Suggs there is risk in investing long term in smaller hyper athletic players as well. Some are injury prone because they aren't capable of absorbing the physicality of NBA level competition, some have short careers because once age takes away their athletic advantage they have nothing to fall back on (if they don't develop their skills through out their career). One thing that some fans forget is the the Raptors have gone on record saying that they're not just evaluating how good a player is right now, but also how good that player will be 3 or 4 years down the line, so ya Suggs could be the better player now but there might be something the Raptors see that make them believe that Barnes will pan out in the long run. Again, I'm just not completely sold on either guy, but I'm def keeping a close eye on both players this season.
@@Ramos-Lavina Scottie Barnes is definitely strong, and broad shouldered, but there is a definite lack to his first step which disturbs me. I've been watching footage of him, and I agree with others whove made an issue of this. He doesn't have that twichiness that Giannis has, so I wonder, how will he score? Can he beat defenders off the dribble? This is a bigger worry than most people are acknowledging. Barnes has very good life for his size (36 standing vert) and a 39 inch max vert. He moves very well, but not Giannis like. Giannis is a transcendental athlete. Extremely rare at that height.
As for Barnes down the road, how does that jibe with our current core of van vleet, siakam and anunoby, who in three years will be 31, 31, and 27?
Barnes, right now, worries me. I assume scouts see what could be there. I see some kawhi Leonard like skills, or potential, rather, in the sense of his body size, length, and burst off the ground. Plus he's 2 inches taller. But he doesn't have that quick first step like Siakam, for example, who does have it. Or Bosh, who was very unusual at that height to blow by defenders as he did.
So what can we expect from Barnes. I honestly get why analysts are so confused about him. He's a great leader, great defender, has got very good lateral quick. Has a very good feel for whats happening around him. Yet he doesn't really have an iso game.
Now that we have him, I hope he develops one. But the effectiveness of that iso game is going to be predicated on his ability to shoot, otherwise defenders will just sag on him.
Scottie Barnes' favourite player and the one upon which he modelled his game is Magic Johnson. He likewise has 6'9 PG written in his instagram header. I can't wait to see him play the point guard position for our team. He is going to be a beast.
Raptors stole Scottie from Orlando and OKC, the steal of the draft.
I’m excited for Scottie to take Siakam’s place in taking the ball up to halfcourt alongside VanFleet. Siakam needs to be the first to take off to the opponent’s basket like he used to in his first few years.
both suggs and Barnes are gonna grow into the league, i can see Barnes eclipsing suggs in 3 years and become the better player, also pg like suggs who are more finished in skillset and don't have the raw athleticism don't rlly grow and level up like the siakams and Giannis. the amount room scottie has compared to suggs is a lot more and Toronto is def the place to do it, the key is TOR drafted him and we will absolutely get the most out of him and his athletics
I’ve very cautiously optimistic about Scottie
All you need to know is that any team after us would’ve taken Barnes over Suggs too. Positionless player who is in fact a point guard? Absolute must draft. I’m ecstatic
Important is attitude. Does Barnes have the will to become great? Giannis worked hard asf to get to the goal, he didn't born as tough as he is, he worked relentless for it.
Scottie said he’s more comfortable playing point than any other position!
That would be awesome! Fred is better off as a shooting guard.. lol
@@wayk3585 I agree!
Very content with raptors’ picks this draft. Really like dalano banton, I hope he becomes a solid rotational player
Damn I thought his wingspan was 7’1. 7’3 is even crazier. Dude is gonna be a lockdown defender at the very worst, and if he develops a nice shot he could be, like OG, one of the best 3 and D players in the league. Leaning more towards the D side
Plus Ben is right, look at his jumper it doesn’t look bad. Just gotta tweak it and get it rolling
The Raptors measured his wingspan at 7'4" at their workout
They play nothing alike though, Barnes already has passable handles and playmaking skills. OG in his current form does not have handles or any real play making skills. OG is a great shooter though, something Barnes isn't yet. But his new form looks better than OG and Siakams, it just depends on if he can translate them into real games. I personally see a faster improvement trajectory for Barnes compared to OB since he already has a natural feel for the game whereas OG still looks quite awkward on offense when the ball is in his hands.
We're blessed to have both though, crazy to think about them playing together.
Man, OG and Scottie duo is gonna be amazing to see
The Jamaican 🇯🇲 Freak baby!
Cool Runnings...not T Rex, but
B Rex. SB 4 era has begun.
When Barnes becomes polished with someone like Holmes we will be unstoppable. Imagine the defense 😳 plus ➕ the offence if he runs point!
Re sign Johnson for his defense depth, he can guard top 25 players.
Never cared tbh, whether suggs or barnes is a good pick. Then scottie talked to the media, the fans...and im already planning to buy his jersey. This guy is humble, hard working, defense minded and has a chip on his shoulder. He's the definition of a raptor.
Well this was an understatement ROTY baby let's go raptors
Ben always way to excited and so optimistic, Ryker more level headed.
Exactly and that what makes this channel so fun!!
We also drafted david Johnson at #47 who I’ve heard and seen great things from as a big body pg
He's a guard forward who can play all 4 position except the 5
And OG can guard 4 siakam can guard 4 so imagine if they play small ball the defense will be insane no nobody would want to play against that it
I can’t wait for the vid on the two second round picks! Some ppl said Dalano Banton’s ceiling is Brandon Ingram with defense! Not a bad take, his crossovers are deadly and he’s pretty quick ngl. David Johnson was projected late lottery earlier in the yr, he might be special
Great pod as always guys. Always love your takes.
Great day for the North.
Lol about Grange deleting stuff. Who cares if someone predicts the draft. it's all for love of the game. Own it and get excited is the way to go.
Great reaction from you guys. Classy.
Also, those Jalen Suggs' assists were hand in hand with his Gawdy turnovers for a ball handler who has played in the systems he was groomed in. Jack would lose it: "You gotta take care of the rock!"
Lastly, this part made me howl.
Ben: Ryker is totally right. Barnes is not ready to play center. He can switch onto one when need be and rely on his length, frame and footwork to be disruptive and front. But there are a lot of opposing centers who would exploit us if we did this. We learned this lesson last season. Remember how noticeable it was when we simply got a blue collar guy like Khen and freddie who can run a pick and roll and play their roles? Night and day.
Giannis, jokic, dirk, Nash, harden (actually didn't enter the league expected to be as great as he is). There's been a lot of MVPs that didn't enter the league with amazingly high expectations
I strongly believe that the raps in time and development of his jumper could play him from the 1 to 5.
Steve Nash never came in with a lot of heat before he became the MVP
Chris Boucher is going to have a monster season this year.
Ben Webster said in his post draft presser that the team envisions that Barnes could play the 5 during small ball lineups, but not full time. I think they’re at least going to experiment with it at some point
ive been waiting for this ALL DAY LESSGOOOOOOOO
Valid point on Barnes, Ryker.
He does need to click. It’s a fact.
Pick 4 means a lot.
Mark Yoshi's words, Scottie Barnes is the perfect player to defend with our team as it is. Og siakam and scottie all can help boucher inside on d so we can play him more. We are going to go small ball and really lock people down. I miss our defense being this good and it will be beautiful.
Also, Barnes could totally play center minutes. He can definitely guard centers and is too fast for any of them
Scottie Barnes is still growing
I don't mind Scottie. But please stop saying FVV is the point guard of the future. FVV is not a good PG.
Yep at not a ball hander
Having Scottie will take pressure off Fred to facilitate, I don’t like Fred at the point either but he’s a great leader, good defence for his size, he was there for the championship and played a crucial role. Fred looked better when we had gasol. Fred is also a a great catch and shoot player.
@@JohnRedCorn79 All you say is true, a perfect sg
FVV is meant to play SG, not PG.
@@thatonecanadianguy6523 he’s too small to be a SG 😭
If they bring back Kyle Lowry this pick will be an even more solid pick.
Starters: Kyle, FVV, OG, Pascal, F/A Center
Bench: Flynn, GTJ, Barnes, Boucher, Birch
Deep Bench: DJohnson, Watson, SJohnson, Watanabe, Gillespie *Dalano Banton (905)
That lineup has issues. I’d rather have GTJ be a starter for the height at SG and Lowry is clearly better than Fred but we paid FVV 85 mil and we can’t have 85 mil sitting on the bench. I don’t see a good reason for Lowry to stay. We ain’t winning with that lineup and he doesn’t have many years left
@@notsocooldude7720 Raptors finished with second best record in the NBA two seasons ago and three seasons ago won the NBA championship with that backcourt. A good reason for Lowry to stay is because he likes playing for Toronto plus Toronto can-will pay him 20-25 million per season. Recognize game.
@@IceManLikeGervin You’re right but there’s also certain matchup where that backcourt gets eaten alive. FVV was unplayable in the sixers series in 2019 and struggled against the Celtics in 2020. The lack of size can be a big issue in certain matchups
I don’t think we have the cap space to do that because Kyle wants the same money he’s getting now, GTJ wants more money, we need to pay Birch who we were getting for 1 mil last year I think. Plus we have to add a decent center
I'd have to agree with this
Longer-term, could become a "small" center and secondary "point", playing the 5 like Arvydas Sabonis, Nikola Jokic, and to a more modest extent, prime Marc Gasol.
Giannis too!
Yes - as I described (run offense through him), but a Tier 1 athlete and not functionally undersized at the 5.
Barnes is going to be special.
My biggest concern is how Nick Nurse utilizes his new guys. We have seen that he tends to "bench" our new guys and don't give them enough minutes to develop. We really need to start Barnes and give him as much time on the court as possible to develop. I don't want to see Barnes picking up 10-15 min a game like TD and a few other newer players we have had.
Trust in NN and the org to do what's best for the players. They have a track record with developing FVV, OG, Powell Pascal, Boucher, etc. And don't forget, they got us our first chip!
I wanted suggs but we needed barnes.
Not just Giannis won a MVP and didn’t have a lot of hype when they were drafted, Jokic won MVP and he was a second round pick too
Yep, Steve Nash drafted 15th was 2x mvp. Even Curry was a lower pick than Barnes and everyone thought he was too small, etc. So he definitely didn’t have that much heat. Also Dirk didn’t have that much heat either
Kawhi Leonard was like 14th, and wasn't projected to be good.
Told y'all Toronto wasn't going to get suggs and I got called dumb smh now look at y'all 😂🤣😂🤣😂😂🤣🤣😂
How do you know Suggs will have a better career, I’m just curious
@@brendendionne7793 he never said that.
I think most Raptors fans are not upset about getting Scottie Barnes. They are more upset at the Raptors for not getting any assets for giving up someone who was a consensus top 4.
Magic wanted Barnes. They could've taken him at 4 and we didn't want to risk that. We got the guy we wanted, and that's dope.
Joker was mvp, a second round pick
I TOLD Y’ALL!!! SCOTTIE BAAAAAARNES! For those who have followed all the noise around Barnes in the draft process Barnes has had GM’s drooling over him. He can play PG as a Forward with the best of a marriage between Ben Simmons and Draymond Green who has an infection energy that Raptors core players exude, a la Kyle Lowry and Pascal Siakim. If Lowry leaves I won’t be shocked if Barnes is running the point with Fred VanVleet from Day 1.
He's a young Magic!
Has anyone else realized how similar of a player Scottie Barnes is to a young kawhi
Honestly yes. Having him on the court will give us the defensive boost. That's what I could see him becoming. A kawahi Leonard that passes. Thats assuming he can do the once in a decade thing of developing a deep repertoire of offensive moves and shots.
Scottie barnes is a beast and we need defense and length to get back to the finals.. Suggs is great but the Raptors did great..
The Scottie Barnes era has begun!
It's a great pick. the raptors don't need another small guard. Just because the media says we should pick doesn't mean its the correct choice for the Raptors.
Suggs was the consolation prize of the top 4 Barnes gets us a tier up maybe or a few tiers down risk. All the Rooks take a few years no matter position.
The arguments you make on Suggs and argue for depth is why the over pay pick swap + future pick wind a way to Mobley. I know we all love Tim’s but we don’t want doughnut hole for team we already saw that last year. Look at the last 3 Champs. Big C & PF that can score some.
Suggs draft stock as boosted because of the buzzer beater in reality, he was meant to go 5-7 anyways
I mean to be fair, Nick Nurse was running Chris Boucher a lot at Center last season and he's only 6'9 200lbs
It's a good pick. Trust in Masai.
Ceiling - Kawhi Leonard
Floor - Anthony Bennett
Reality - Thaddeus Young
Bro come on. His floor is not Bennett. At the very least he can be a good defender so his floor might be like current Thybulle.
Raptors is building a defensive team.
Next step is to resign gtj and khem/nerlens noel, and then if possible get Lonzo to play the point
pg freddie, sg scottie, sf og, pf pascal,center khem birch
I think this could work if OG continues to improve his shooting, Siakam returns to his previous high, and Scottie gets good at catch and shoot threes
Scottie Barnes has a way higher ceiling than Suggs and has a way better fit than Suggs
Hell ya we need a forward that can truely make plays
No he's not they have Scottie Barnes already his name is o.g they're losing Lowry so Suggs will be a perfect pick and fit . They took at back up college player
@@ryanmcphee8451 so you want 2 undersized guards. Fred is the pg of the future.
@@ryanmcphee8451 bro I get your point we all do , but if they chose Scottie over a need “if Lowry leaves “ that must tell you that they truely believe in the guy . And everyone always goes off the mock draft yes they are pros and know they’re shit but they don’t work for the raps nor are they in with the coaches . Only the raps know what they need
@@ryanmcphee8451 and Og plays 3-5 you should know that if your a raps fan . So Scottie does not effect Og . It’s pascal that is leaving Scottie and Og will have to be the forwards . Hopefully they pick up Allen . That’s a fucken insane d line up
. Fred can carry the pg roll
Love this pick, I don’t need those small players man. I want know our team to make mis match with this guy.
David Johnson is suggs with defence and length
In Ryker we trust!
Reports just came out that OKC made a offer to us for the 4th pick as they really wanted Barnes . Only sure thing that is known now is that obvs we would have gotten the 6th pick and don't know much else atm. I'm dying to know if they offered Shai ??? There's no way right ? I don't even wanna know on second thought lol
I would die if they offered Shai for Barnes
Jokic was a 2nd round pick who won MVP
People are giving him Draymond green comparisons but I can see him more being of a Jimmy butler type player if he develops to his full potential, 6’8/6’9 guard elite defender and can initiate the offence whilst creating chances for himself and other, sounds more Jimmy than draymond to me
I like that comparison. As I remember it Jimmy didn’t have much of a jumper coming into the league either
bro he moves like magic drives like the Greek freak handles the ball like Ben simons defends like Og
He has more of an outgoing personality similar to Dray.
people get too worked up about getting everyone ready on the same timeline and often trade players that they shouldnt have for short term gains that often dont pan out at expense of long term success. The Jays did that a few years ago depleting their pitching staff in their farm system to feed their big league franchise that didnt even yield a trip to the finals. Same thing in basketball, if it takes Barnes 3 or 5 years and he becomes an MVP caliber player then it takes 3 to 5 years and you bring in pieces or alter accordingly. Its better to keep a core together and let them grow than shuffle crap around and be like the Lakers or other teams that try for quick championships. Rarely does that work.
Seriously? Only Giannis? Nope... Kawhi, Kobe, all those guys either picked below 10th or even lower and they all turned out to be superstars. Kawhi didn't know how to shoot. Barnes comes in with more hype. The guy in red is being a bit negative. We're talking about ceiling here, doesn't mean it will happen 100%. Hype up your man, Barnes has GREAT potential. Ceiling? Superstar, MVP.
Suggs would’ve been a lot better of pg than Fred could ever be but Barnes could be even better than that it’s a gamble for sure
If you don't agree with the Pick, don't get mad at Barnes, it's time to support him 1000%.
Watched the Raptors since day 1 of the team. This is not a franchise altering pick I feel.
They took the higher ceiling guy, Barnes was consensus #5. Not a reach.
He will be like giannis trust me i watched the guys highlights he just plays like him
Scottie barnes can play point guard if the Raptors guards get injured
FRED A SG NOT A PG
Ben!!!! You wanted Suggs!!!
2 inches is a big difference ;)
Sounds like Scottie might be a better all around player than Suggs right now
Love your podcast, but you guys gotta fix your mic levels. Ben's volume is always a lot higher than Ryker's.
suggs 4.5 assists(2.9 TO) in 28.9min on a loaded gonzaga team. scottie 4.1 assists (2.5 TO) in 24.8min. Pretty comparable. Scottie's attitude/enthusiasm trumps Suggs' reaction after being drafted by ORL.
Skys the limit!
Scottie B’s Ceiling is the other Scottie P?
SCOTTIE 🥶💯
It's so weak for someone to delete their tweet after they staunchly defended that earlier opinion/tweet
I really just hope we land Lonzo with a sign n trade , and if not than Dinwiddie is also a great replacement for Lowry . And than a big Man n we good to go
You have to be at least 6-10 to play as a true center.
I don’t care about timeline. It’s gonna be what it’s going to be. Players get traded and other things happen. Just take the best player available and let the Raps figure it out.
I feel like y'all are over hyping it 🤣 🤣 🤣
(edit): no way in hell we are playing him as the center! We need to play him as a point forward or magic Johnson style of play!
No he's just super talented
You can teach shooting , but you cannot teach hustle and heart and defensive tenacity
This oster will be a nightmare in 2 years. They need a young defensive lanky center
I know hes not young but Noel?
He’s a PG/PF
If the Raptors sign-and-trade Lowry and a 2nd rounder for 25M to a team with cap space and take nothing in return, will that earn the Raptors a trade exception?
Suggs doesn't want to be in toronto... why are "fans" still salty about our great pick scottie.
Nick nurse since last year's draft wanted depth in the wings.
Why didn't we draft down and get Orlando #8 pick, #5.. unless Orlando wanted Barnes too
Both Magic and OKC wanted to get Barnes too
We should try to trade Siakam for Myles Turner and LeVert
PG: Vanvleet
SG: Caris LeVert
SF: OG
PF: Scottie Barnes
C: Myles Turner
Levert is better than siakam
Um. Nahhh. Pascal is an All-Star player. He was injured last year and had covid. He wasn't playing in Toronto at all. I like LeVert and I have mad respect for him but I don't think he would be an All-Star type player. He'd still be nice on the Raps tho. I just want Siakam, OG and SB playing together. Lol. LeVert is such a cool dude. Heard him on JJ's Podcast.
@@ddavwenagha8830 we need a center though and Myles Turner is a perfect fit for us. OG, Scottie Barnes, and Turner would be a nightmare defensively.