So glad I allow the Holy Spirit to guide me in theology and not a flawed mans book! Reformed theology is wrong! It makes God the author of sin... HE is NOT. And it makes passages about Israel about individual salvation (Roman's 9) which is not Paul's purpose in that passage!
@@markwhite5926 You are correct that God is not the author of sin. However, if God is indeed sovereign, then the mere fact of sin's existence must surely testify to the fact that God sovereignly permits sin for the time being in order to serve His ultimate purposes and bring glory to Himself. Romans chs. 9-11 are primarily focused on the issue of salvation, since Paul speaks throughout of the fact that Israel is hardened to the gospel now, so that they might eventually be saved thanks to the witness of the church. The fact that Paul so confidently declares that a remnant of Israel will in fact be saved, is itself a witness to God's sovereign election, since clearly it must have been divinely revealed to Paul that God has already elected a remnant of Jews who will yet be saved in the future. God is sovereign over both individuals and nations, and a person can only come to saving faith by God's grace alone through the gift of the Holy Spirit. This is not something that fallen, sinful man can achieve himself, it is a pure gift that is totally of God.
@@saved6655 there is a difference between God using evil and ordaining evil. How God chooses to working in the life of believers or unbelievers for that matter is entirely up to Him abd the counsel of His own will.
@@markwhite5926 Job 1: 6-8 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. The Lord said to Satan, "From where do you come?" Then Satan answered the Lord and said, "From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it." The Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil." “The Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job?” He is literally saying satan has it ever crossed your mind to go have at job. What dose God do he takes down his protection over job and says have at him. Now there is reasons here, let’s look at Paul’s thorn. 2 Corinthians 12: 7 Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me-to keep me from exalting myself! “for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself” “to keep me from exalting myself!” He says to keep me from exulting myself. Here is Paul getting the same thing as job. God literally uses evil to keep his servants straight. It’s hard to hear but it shows Gods sovereignty. This doesn’t make him the author of sin it makes him sovereign. Read the book of job it’s clear
There it was, the big problem people have with believing God chooses who He saves when the young pastor said, well you can't blame God for knowing the future. People blame God for people going to Hell, they think we all deserve a chance just like the one chosen by God. People have a hard time believing God can do what He wants with what He created, I did once as well but it's so clear I couldn't deny it anymore. Now I realized, like Dr White has said, it should be hard for us to believe that God saves anyone, because we all deserve Hell.
The New IFB pastor says that not everyone who is saved loves God, but the Bible says 1 Corinthians 16:22 (KJV) 22 If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.
*Wblsr* Please don't refer to a/one from this lot to be "IFB". They are distinctly, *NEW* ifb. They preach *AGAINST* what they refer to as the "old ifb". This group is *BINO*
@@itachieyeskill That would be _"Baptist In Name Only"_ There are soooooooooo many doctrines that they teach that are foreign to Baptists of years gone by, yet they will cull out names of Baptists individually and cherry pick things that they might agree with, or what a pastor from yesteryear may have said.
Well, at least this guy had the wontons to actually engage in dialogue unlike a certain someone who shall remain nameless, cowering behind his computer screen. I'll at least give him that... P.S. If it wasn't for Dr. White/Alpha and Omega Ministries and Apologia and all the work you fine people have put into debating Roman Catholics I'd probably still be one. I just wanted to take this opportunity to thank you all and for everything you've done. It changed my life.
@@ifbmike3070 Like all those who are involved in a cult, you try to elevate your standing to Christ's authority to judge. The pharisees missed the bus when dealing with proper Godliness and theology, while you and White have a difference in opinion. Unlike Jesus, you had nothing to do with the inspiration of the Scriptures, Christian theology, or judgement. Calling them homo reprobate shows your total disregard and hatred for not kowtowing to your way of thinking. Neither of them are homosexuals, hence you engage in bearing false witness (Exodus 20:16) and slander (2Tim 3:5). Christ, who you say you follow sums it up when He said, But I say unto you, That every idle word that men speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgement (Matthew 12:36). Instead of dealing with Whites argument and why you disagree, you move straight to acting out the behavior of a sixth grader. It is very sad that you did not read the entire verse you were alluding to with Christ calling them vipers. O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things (Matthew 12:34-35). We can see that the reason for your slander and false witness comes from your heart and according to Christ, such careless words will be judged. I disagree with Durbin and White on Calvanism, yet I will not resort to acting contrary to the Scriptures such as you just did.
@@ifbmike3070 Again you show your hatred and inability to obey Scripture to live peaceably with all men and show that what you say is hatred from your heart according to Christ. No one will look at your behavior and desire to have what you have in Christianity since there is no discernible difference between your current behavior and the world. The Scriptures also tell us that we are to correct error, which does more good than running around calling those who disagree with us as retards. Heck, you place yourself equal to Christ's authority to call people names, yet you shy away from Christ's example to correct false teaching. Remember, if they are lost, it ISyour responsibility to correct false teaching since Christ died for them too. Again you slander and bear false witness by calling them effeminate. Neither are catamites, homosexual, or prostitutes. While I agree that Jesus tasted death for all people, you need to remember that includes White and Durbin. Wishing for their death is wrong and shows hatred and according to the apostle John in his first epistle makes you guilty of murder. You've lied about the man and were careless with your words along with being guilty of murder in your heart. How are you better than White who does not resort to such behavior? That beam has blinded your sight my friend.
This guy seperates 'to them that love God' from 'to them who are the called according to His purpose'. But that's bizarre hermeneutics. Those that love God ARE those that are called by God. Paul is talking about the same type of people. Also no Christian keeps God's commandments perfectly, so does no Christian love God? That's ridiculous!
Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: 14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: 15 Their feet are swift to shed blood: 16 Destruction and misery are in their ways: 17 And the way of peace have they not known: 18 There is no fear of God before their eyes. (It’s pretty clear nobody loves God)
@@winburna852 so a 2 hour and 50 min video from the 1970s is gonna tell me what preachers who weren't even born believe. They believe the tr in greek says what the king james says. Not word for word because nobody could read it but an accurate and perfect translation. How hard is that to understand.
@@winburna852 you think I should learn greek?? Wow. How to talk to someone who thinks God only speaks in one language. Must be tough do you think I should learn hebrew too that's nonsense
From 49:50 to 53:45 is how the conversation always goes with these people. One person wants to look at Romans 8 and the other person wants to look at every other verse except Romans 8.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." You can't just take one part of the Bible and define it in your own words. All scripture must be validated throughout the entirety of the Bible with supporting passages to come up with the truth.
@@alexf.3699correct all of scripture will be consistent with itself, so a whole doctrinal statement that Romens is making will explain all of those areas like that passage in a Timothy.
I could listen to Dr. Whites exegesis during his 15 minutes 10 times a day. What a clear explanation of those verses! I wish he would do that for the whole book of Romans!
@@markc4176 no he believes in repentance (a changing of mind toward Christ) and he believes in perseverance of the saints. Meaning if you are truly saved you cannot be lost but if you are truly saved you will be in a process of sanctification.
I feel bad for this guy. Did I hear correctly that this is his first debate? Who jumps into the ring with James White for their first debate? He seems to not know James reads Greek, or where he stands on Gods sovereign decree, etc. I can’t imagine never doing a formal debate, and knowing nothing about Pastor White, and then jumping into a debate about Romans 8 with him.
Though I agree with James White's position, it seems to me that the claim that proginosko as an active verb is never used about events or circumstances but always about persons may be countered by 2Pe 3:17
If you notice, Jason did with Hebrews 6 what he did with Eph 2, he read the end verses back into the first one he read. These verses start with, "it is impossible..." So, what is the question that should be asked of these verses? What is impossible?
I think Dr. White did a great job, but I have to commend this brother’s polite and friendly demeanour. It’s refreshing, because some of Dr. Whites opponents were not so polite and friendly lol
....Wait till you hear how the NIFB talk about Dr James White when they are not being recorded. 😨 They don't call Dr White a Brother in Christ. They were rude and nasty, that's why Dr White invited him for a talk. Their fruit can be rotten. If you watch the other video where Jeff and James talk for an hour before this debate....they tell you how vicious and cruel Steven Anderson and his crew are towards Jeff and James. Don't let appearance deceive you. God Bless. 📖🔥
Did this pastor knew Mr White ? I don’t think he even knew who he was dealing with. Bringing text from here and there is an evidence that he didn’t understands chapter 8, non the less Chapter 9 ? He sounded to Rookie, his answers, presentation, everything. Good luck to his congregation .
I thought that it was interesting when he said it does not negate the fact that Jesus died for all (JOHN 3:16) even though it says he intercedes for us who are saved.
What a Master Debater that Dr. White is, and how kind he was to Jason. You know they wouldn't of treated Dr White that way if he was in their turf. He truly is a Godly man. They, the NIFB's are devoid of true biblical understanding. They simply hate Reformed Theology because they haven't been Born Again into God's Kingdom. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth. Which everyone Born Again receives. If they had experienced the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit...they wouldn't hate Election, Predestination Foreknowledge...all biblical doctrines. The Natural man...one can understand the Gospel, and a surface level of scripture...doesn't mean they are Born Again into God's Kingdom. I am praying for this Pastor he seems like a nice man. And l salute Dr. White for showing us what Holy Spirit wisdom looks like. Praise God for men like him. God is good. 🐑📖🌷
This is an interesting debate that has a contrast of skill and familiarity with the format who peppers his opponent with light blows but the unskilled opponent who has force of truth standing shaky but impressively landing haymakers.
Ephesians 2:8-10 (AKJV) 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. Titus 1:16 (AKJV) They profess that they know God; but in works they deny being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
Ephesians 1:12 explanation: the context of “first trusted” was the fact that Paul was talking to people who came to the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ after him. Just a linear statement not a theological one.
In Luke 5:22 - 23 we are told that Jesus perceived the thoughts of the scribes and Pharisees and answered them appropriately . There is nothing in that reference that projects that He put those thoughts into their minds or decreed them into their hearts. John 2:24 also tells us that Jesus knows what's in man. There is nothing passive about God knowing the the hearts of those that will respond to His redemptive revelation and carrying out the work of justification based on their receiving Christ by faith ( Ephesians 2:8 - 9; John 1:12). There's also a difference between those who Christ died for which is the whole world ( John 3:16 - 17; 1 John 2:2), and who He is mediating for which are those who received His redemption. Hermeneutic subversions and grammatical manipulations won't detract from the plain truth of scripture.
Justification is a work of God the Father and the Holy Spirit in us and without us. Justification and faith do not have a sequence in time but in order Faith- Justification but are simultaneously in time. It is the Ungodly who are Justified by faith, not the believer. Sanctification is a work of The Holy Spirit in us but not without us. Justification and sanctification cannot be separated. There is no sanctification without justification or justification without sanctification, this even when sanctification is just a begin of regeneration through all our life. It is sanctification that produces the FRUITS of the Spirit. Faith is by Grace and the free gift of God. Faith does NOT produce Works; But the Holy Spirit Who renews us to be a new creation in Christ works in us Fruits of the Spirit. However they will be counted as ours. It is by faith that we are justified and because our sins are blotted out we now receive the Holy Spirit Who works in us and renews us to have fruits. Ephesians 5: 8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth), 10 finding out what is acceptable to the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy “works” [read Fruits], and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Only a God that knows the end from the beginning can be the God of the Bible.He wrote all of human history before time and we are living out what He wrote for His glory
@@bobfree1226 Right,God commands people to repent and believe,but it is impossible for those in the flesh,the natural man,to either know or understand anything spiritual or even obey any of God's commands(1 Cor 2;14 and Romans 8:7),therefore,this is how we know that if anyone does repent and believe it is because GOD HAS GIVEN THEM A NEW HEART! It is proof that God has caused someone to be born from above,they are no longer dead in sin,they are no longer natural men but spiritual ones.
Yeah, this IBF preacher has no seminary training. That’s IBF churches have their own echo chamber version of what they refer to as a “Bible College” or “Institute.” It’s probably on site at whatever church he attended before being “called” to preach. SMH
Jason Robinson, this is what happens when you bring a knife to a gunfight. Next time you debate, you should be familiar with the arguments from the other side and the rules of debate. Thank you, Dr. White, for once again demonstrating that our God is sovereign and that ALL things have a purpose.
Was good, but was extremely unmatched... He didn't know who James was whatsoever. I can't handle this kinda of crazy exegesis (exeCrayCray) Was a good listen overall, and I'm thankful for you Mr. White. God bless
The issue I have is James white could be wrong but his intellect and speech far exceeds that of his opponent. Which can easily give the illusion of him being correct. Everyone examine his words and examine the scriptures, and scrutinize diligently.
I generally would agree with a statement like that, but based on what they covered it appeared that White made the point that romans 8:28-34 is talking about believers only and not unbelievers. Maybe you could explain what you believe about those specific texts. Thank you brother!
True true Brother. We must scrutinize James' opponent"s (Ps. Robinson) words and his exegesis of Rom. 8:28-34 and other scriptures he uses to judge him incorrect as well. The winner and loser of this debate must be judged on the basis of his use the text not our traditions and fears. Let scripture defend itself, but we must be faithful to the scripture alone to establish what scripture has to say.
Poor James!! God has given you patience to deal with closed minded Christian's. It's sad to see that ppl won't change what they believe even when it's explained in the original language.
My take on this debate: They're both on the "saving faith" book, just not on the same page. They both believe the same saving faith taught in the Bible. Dr. White's on the 1st stage towards "acquiring that saving faith", while Ptr. Robinson's on the 2nd step which is an "acquired saving faith". My basis: both side's closing statement.
@Quigle- Dorf Would "accepting" this faith be pleasing to God? We cannot do that according to Romans 8:7-8. We have to be granted new life, we cannot "accept" this new life, we must be given it. Just like Lazarus couldn't "accept" his resurrection, he was granted new life.
Those who add Deuteronomy 6:5 to 1st Corinthians 15:1-4 are adding law keeping to the gospel they're not saved for doing so Romans 3:28 Romans 4:4-6 Romans 11:6 Galatians 1:8-9 Galatians 2:16
James White and Jeff Durbin in his comments at the end show they don't understand this issue. The grace of God is only going to be applied to people who accept it. The grace of God is the gift, not faith. Having the ability to accept or reject the perfect work of Christ does not negate the perfection of the gift of grace and the work of Christ. And they can't even understand that Ephesians 2:10 says we "should" walk in the good works, not that we will.
Hey I know that it has been two years since you asked this question but I think that the music at the beginning of Dr. James White’s broadcasts is Jason Lavik. It sounds like his music and I think it is his record of “What a friend we have in Jesus”.
I have a question, why don’t calvanists be honest when witnessing to others ? Why would you tell some random person on the street that Jesus loves them and died for them? Maybe that person is not elect, in which case your statement about Jesus dying for their soul would be FALSE .. explain
This idea that people have a completely free will, not in subjection to either God or sin, is crazy. People don't see sin for what it is. Sinners aren't free at all, the Bible says the one who commits sin is a slave to sin, and sin is a hard master which only God can set us free from. When God sets a person free, through regeneration, they are empowered and set right by God to do the things He has prepared for them to do. We're been corrected, set right, and we are able to love God and love our neighbor, as we were created to do.
J Mach But you are missing the point - If you tell someone who is not of the elect and someone you claim Jesus didn’t die for that Jesus did die for them... you are LYING to them and LYING is a sin? So you are sinning against your own belief 🤦♀️
At 19:15 James White asserts that foreknowing is NOT having foreknowledge. Which is strange to me, because to foreknow something is the same as having foreknowledge of that thing. But later at 20:15 when illustrating his point that there are actions that God has performed and that they are a golden chain of events that make up God's redemptive work, he does two things I take issue with. The first is tie together the the word foreknew in Romans 8:29 to the word knew in Genesis 4:1. The Genesis reference is Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived. Does anyone else find this disturbing? The reference in Genesis is clearly a euphemism for a husband and wife having intercourse. It means that Adam knew Eve intimately and as a result she conceived. They are clearly not the same. The second is subtle, but he redefines foreknowing as choosing. He does this deferring to other translations that would translate foreknew as chose. choosing is not that same as foreknowing by a long shot. His whole argument hinges on a false idea that foreknowing is not the same as having foreknowledge and that foreknowing is the same as choosing, both are wrong.
If you listen closely, he explains that the Greek word for "foreknowing" is active, not passive, and that foreknowing is applied to a person, not an event. The reason he tied this back to the OT is because "foreknow" is also used in the OT and is used to describe God choosing Israel.
Pastor Robinson doesn't seem to be remotely interested in Dr. White's responses. Brother Robinson, it may help for you to be engaged in the conversation and try to understand the other side. Dr. White is so educated and sincere about honoring God and scripture. You may learn something from him, even if you disagree.
Callaway Cass Why are you complaining if you believe God has already predestined this debate according to His will? Are you complaining about what you believe God has done? 🤦♀️ you see how illogical and foolish Calvinism is.
I find it a bit silly that IFB types roll their eyes at the original languages and proper grammar. It’s so sad to see so many just want to believe what they want rather than what the Word of God said.
rms 5194 just so you know, Pastor Robinson has also studied Greek, but he intentionally avoided any argumentation based on the greek as he view the KJV sufficient
IBF ‘types.” Right. Worse yet, the sovereign grace “types” who apparently can’t adequately “prove” their doctrine with a mere King James Bible, or even 150 other translations, because that would eliminate the opportunity to showboat with their very own personal translation of “the original Greek.” Wow, it’s the King James White “Bible”. Awesome. Or not.
I want to hear this pastor’s interpretation of Romans Chapter 9 without God’s sovereignty. That would blow my mind. He would have to make up something that contradicts the text’s context completely.
Michael Brownhill The problem is that you have made the KJV your ultimate authority. Even the translators rejected that idea. There are many translations issues with the KJV, especially in the end of the book of Revelation. God preserved his word evidently in the abundance of copies of the NT Greek works we have that are still in existence.
Also not everyone that loves God is saved, WHAT? The Bible is very clear that none seek for God and that we are enemies of God so if a person loves God that is pretty obvious that they are saved.
This is one of the most clueless IFB pastors I've ever heard...and I grew up a STAUNCH, HARDCORE KJV Only, Dispensational, IFB. It's almost as if his mind has already been made up, he's not even going to hear any other view, and is willingly ignorant. Hmm...why does that seem familiar with my past experiences?
So to say I accepted Jesus as lord and savior or to think any of that was a choice of my own is considered boastful from a calvinistic perspective? Wow
Can you show me any verse that says salvation is of your own free will actions. You can't as it does not exist. Salvation is completely of the Lord That is what scripture teaches. John 6:37-39 King James Version (KJV) 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. John 6:44 King James Version (KJV) 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Darenegadegeneral, of course you would not think it is boastful because any testimony on how you repented and believed is wonderful. Where the boastfulness is revealed is if you compare your choice to another who heard the same gospel message and never trusted the Lord. Why did you choose on your own and another didn't? You had faith, but he didn't. You understood the message of salvation and he didn't. You wanted the Lord Jesus Christ, and he didn't. See the contrast. You chose something that is wonderful and desirable of your own will, but the other person didn't. He could have (by the free will definition), but he just didn't have the faith or understood the message or wanted Christ as much as you did. This is the reason Ephesians 2:8-9 says what it says. Once we realize (as we grow in the Lord) that it is God that changed our hearts and desires to even want Him, salvation becomes all of God and not of our "decision." Salvation in Jesus Christ is the only saving I know of that the person being saved talks about their decision being saved as the ultimate source of that salvation. It's like a fireman pulling an unconscious man out of a wrecked car using the jaws of life and later the man talking about how he grabbed the fireman's hand to be pulled out, saving himself with the help of the fireman. No, a unconscious person will later thank the fireman for what he did. We were spiritually dead, children of wrath and disobedience by nature (Ephesians 2:1-3), but it is God who made us alive when we were dead based on love (Ephesians 2:4-5). And being alive or born again is not by the will of the flesh or man, but of God (John 1:13). So while you certainly wouldn't call it boasting to say you chose God on your own, you would have room to boast because someone else didn't choose God because they couldn't muster enough faith like you.
Sure thing SkiesVibrant: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. See that if right there? IF you believe THEN you're saved. It's a choice everyone makes.
Darenegadegeneral “You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide,” - John 15:16. “who were born not of blood, nor of will of flesh, nor of will of man, but of God” - John 1:13. “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.” John 6:44. “Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.” - Matt 16:17. None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God - Romans 3:10-11. We were Dead in trespasses and sins. We must be born again. The body sin and the old man is crucified and buried with Christ, then raised to newness of life with Christ. Just as a baby cannot choose when it is physically born, also a man cannot choose when he is spiritually reborn or raised from spiritual death. It is thru God’s Grace that saves by faith. It’s not by works.so that no one can boast. No one in heaven will be boasting that they’re in heaven and their former boss isn’t because they chose Christ and their boss did not. Make sense?
That’s lordship salvation. Accepting Jesus as lord and savior in the scripture doesn’t exist and came about 50 years ago. You are saved through faith and not of yourselves
Working all things for good refers to God's plan to (re)establish a nation of people who will serve him. The plan is referenced in numerous Old Testament passages like Daniel 7, various parts of Isaiah, etc. It doesn't mean blessing the lives of individual obedient Christians, like this IFB guy seems to think. Nor does it require God to actively take control of everyone's minds and make their decisions for them, like James White seems to think. It just requires God to intervene and shape spiritual and political developments on earth.
James White won this debate easily through faithful biblical exegesis and was very gracious to pastor Robinson. Robinson never made a compelling biblical argument and was clumsy but raised some good philosophical questions. I'm not sure if they were answered properly and will need to listen again. Robinson showed a lot more class than the peers calling names, using vulgar language, bearing false witness and other things which show bad fruit/bad tree.
I’d love to hear how those from the IFB camp would explain salvation in the Old Testament. Their inconsistencies would grow and their theology would unravel I’m sure .
Els I agree and faith is a gift based on Gods election of grace “But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.” Romans 11:4-5 KJV
Els I agree , God will not not let any of His elect perish because Jesus died for all of them. Do you believe God makes all things for Himself , even the wicked for the day of evil?
Just pointing out one glaring flaw made by Durbin(perhaps White agrees). Faith is NOT a work and is the direct opposite of a work. Faith isn't meritorious, works are. Believing on Jesus Christ isn't grounds to boast at all. Durbin is behind the times by still parroting this non-starter. God saving you via faith in him does not mean you merited anything whatsoever, this is biblical. So no, Durbin, there is no "worry" about a boasting issue. It's in Romans, not sure how you can miss it. "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." - Romans 4:5 "To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." Romans 3:26-28
Amen to the scriptures you quoted but in one of the passages they quoted in the previous video they referenced ephesians 2:8 where even faith is said to be a gift of God. And then afterwords in verse 10: "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them".
Tony, Faith is the gift and work of God, not our own work. Philippians 1:29 "For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake." Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." John 6:29 "Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”
@@johnmyers3450 The only verse you listed that seems to really prove anything to me could be Ephesians 2. The problem is you made a grammatical error. ua-cam.com/video/QiHN6a5bQb0/v-deo.html
@@gleon1602 Funny how the Lord works. Since posting this (2 years ago), I've actually come back to the primacy of the TR. I was raised KJVO for 23 years (1988-2011), switched over to being primarily ESV in 2011, and was (re-)convinced of the Textus Receptus for myself in August 2022 rather than simply following a position my parents held.
To REPENT alone is not works because you do not work when you only change your mind. . But to repent from sins clearly is works because it is you who are to repent from sins and not Christ.
Brilliant brilliant exegesis Dr. White. Repentance not necessary? What was the central theme of Jesus ministry after his temptation? Matt. 4:17 " From that time Jesus began to preach "Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." But I kind got the feeling this debate went completely over the Pastor's head. Throughout he had no clue to Dr. White biblical exegetical presentation.
‘Repent’ means to ‘turn’, it does not mean ‘turn from bad works/sin’. Repentance from dead works to faith alone on Jesus Christ is the truth. If one has 99% faith on Jesus and 1% in his own works or on another god, then he is not saved. They need 100% faith in Jesus Christ alone that he died and rose again for all our sins
Turn from unbelief to belief on Jesus Christ alone. Once you do that you are spiritually born and saved bro! By turning from bad works or sin is fleshly. As you said the flesh profits nothing. God bless
James White contradict himself. In minute 46:50 he says: "Does God give all things to those who is in hell"? And in his dialogue with Steven Anderson he says in minute 2:22:46 "There is nobody in hell". Is there people in hell yes or no?
there is often confusion between the final lake of fire and Hades. If one wants to nitpick, Hell (in Revelation) is unoccupied whereas the dead of Hades/Sheol is. Anderson wants to dismiss the distinction because it is not translated as such in the KJV, but there is a distinction, but for everyone who does not dabble in theology the distinction doesn't seem to bear a difference for their purposes
beloved, I don't know you in person but God knows you. God ministered to me in a revelation when I was on your profile to see things around you, I saw blessings but spiritual attacks holding onto them, in prayers, I saw a woman in the realm of the spirit monitoring and plotting delay in your life, with an evils mirror, and with motive to destroy. but as I speak to you now her time is up, render hand of favor with anything you can afford or give to these motherless foundation (motherless babies home foundation) in Lagos state before 2 days with towards faith, as I rise my hands heaven and pray for you they shall serve as point of contact wherever you are, you will received double portion of grace to excel and total restoration of breakthrough in your life and in the life of your family. ask for their account details and help them call the MD in charge of the orphanage to get their details on (WhatsApp or call them now on (+2348166495905) him I sent an you. for it is not by might nor by in power but of the spirit faith the lord (Zechariah 4: 6) you shall testify to the Glory of God in your life. God bless you.,,
This guy to me is super disrespectful to assume pastor and Dr White doesn't know the things he is saying that he should read. Everyone should be willing to learn and change their mind when facts are given to you over and over.
There is a really simple way to prove this. Did God know you would be saved before he made you? Yes So God chose to make you the way he did, knowing that you would be saved? Yes That's predestination, and election. Now from the NIFB guys point of view, as an individual, that doesn't know the beginning from the end, all we need to do to be saved is believe.
For I know that the Lord is great, and that our Lord is above all gods. Whatever the Lord pleases, he does, in heaven and on earth, in the seas and all deeps. He it is who makes the clouds rise at the end of the earth, who makes lightnings for the rain and brings forth the wind from his storehouses. He it was who struck down the firstborn of Egypt, both of man and of beast; who in your midst, O Egypt, sent signs and wonders against Pharaoh and all his servants; who struck down many nations and killed mighty kings, Sihon, king of the Amorites, and Og, king of Bashan, and all the kingdoms of Canaan, and gave their land as a heritage, a heritage to his people Israel. Your name, O Lord , endures forever, your renown, O Lord , throughout all ages. For the Lord will vindicate his people and have compassion on his servants. Psalms 135:5-14 ESV
I'm not a scholar or anything, but in Jeremiah 19:5, the Hebrew says literally that it did not "come upon my heart" for the Israelites to sacrifice their children in the fire as worship to YHWH. It does not say that He did not know that it was going to happen.
@@choicemeatrandy6572 Hebrew is the original, so it does not change the meaning. There is no word for brain or mind in Hebrew, it's only ( לִבִּֽ ) Heart. If we cherry-pick the English phrase, " and it did not come into my mind" you can make it say that God had no idea that this would happen . which would be contrary to other passages of scripture. What it's saying in context is that God wanted them to know through Jeremiah that sacrificing their children in the fire is absolutely not a commandment of God. that's it.
I misunderstood your last comment. please disregard what I previously said. I don't necessarily hold to that position. However, Jeremiah 19:5 doesn't eliminate that interpretation. It's possible that the real picture is that humanity as a whole is fallen in sin and as a result is capable of only doing evil. God, works everything out for his purposes despite human evil. because He exists beyond our space-time, there is nothing that has happened or will happen in our timeline that he does not know.
What I'm saying is, people are evil, God is good. sometimes God allows evil people to commit the grievous acts of their heart to their own judgement. And sometimes he helps it along, like when he hardened pharaoh's heart. I can say with confidence that God is in control.
I was a little surprised that Pastor Robinson did not take Mr White to task on "Yahweh" (that "w" being wrong, unless you are German). I suppose it was off topic.
17 verses before that it said this: John 1:12-13 NASBS [12] But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, [13] who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
@@jackgtx440 You do not have to be your unregenerate heart, my friend. The Pharisees were called "broods of vipers." They were also called to Repent. They were not blocked from doing what God told them to do. Do you believe that?
At the very beginning of him talking he buries himself in his own folly, he says that not all people who are saved loves God. WHAT ?!?! And this guy is a pastor ?!? It's a shame and I shouldn't even be surprised, what foolishness is on display here.
1 Cor 16:22 "If any man not love the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema..." Shows their complete ignorance. How humiliating for Pastor Jason. Wonder if he realizes how he looks to the studious Reformed Theologian? 🤦🧑🦯🔥
Dr. White did a fantasic job of defending the Reformed position. I applaud Pastor Robinson for being civil. If it would have been a debate between Dr. White and Steven Slanderson, Slanderson would have thrown out his points and then called Dr. White a "heretic" and a "homo".
That's why Anderson wont actually debate him. That's why Anderson did an "interview" that allowed him to push and question Dr White but then move on to a new question whenever he didn't have a response.
This makes me think about soul winning which the other pastor brought up. I agree with you Dr. White just so thats clear. I love everything you and Jeff do and Ive learned so very much from you guys! Im trying to think about soul winning now though because plp are learning to ask questions (especially someone who used to believe and is now an atheist) such as “I f God only actually died for the believers only and right now Im unbelieving, then whats the point. Its almost like why are you trying to soul win me then if Im destined for hell. If plp who believe are predestined to do so then whats the purpose?” Now I know the purpose and I could state that purpose which is you cant hear without a preacher etc etc, but then I feel like am just fishing and hoping to catch that huge elusive fish and all the rest are doomed anyhow. It can be discouraging.
And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. 1 Corinthians 2:4-5 KJV Another example of James white and his words of man's "wisdom." God bless you Pastor Robinson.
Javan Hansen Oh Brother. 🙄 You’re cherry picking Bible verses to shame someone of a concept I don’t think you or Robinson understand. Let me be clear I am not definitive on the subject myself, but hearing this debate I saw that, White expressed understanding of predestination and the implications of Romans 8. Robinson’s responses persisted in his bias, saying things like, “I disagree with that translation,” when it was read straight from the original Greek. And continuing statements, like, “I feel...” or worst of all, “I disagree with that...” with (WHAT?) Robinson doesn’t even explain what precisely he disagrees with, he just continues down his thought trail as if it justifies his disagreement. He even accused White of not using Bible versus, when Dr. White continued to quote the book/chapter/verse of many statements that support his claims. Again, I’m not even a fan of Dr. White, I tried shaking his hand at the G3 conference last year and he totally ignored me. (Granted it was the intermission of the debate and I now know it isn’t appropriate to interrupt the break time since it is meant to prepare the speaker) All I’m saying is, that using scripture out of context to shame a person is cult like behavior that shouldn’t exist in the body of Christ. Both speakers were here for one thing, an edifying debate of Romans 8:29-35 and for the most part, both sides did just that, represent their understanding of the text, and edify the sheep with the Word of God. Enticing words are for people like Deepak Chopra, Bethel pastors, and Hillsong. Spirit and Power comes straight from the word of God, which is what this conversation was tied to. In fact, your statement reminds me of people in those heretical groups seeing that you prefer this approach to a defeated debater that you support, rather than accepting that Robinson could have been better prepared.
It's sad that a man as educated as James White can be duped by a teaching which contradicts the very foundation of scripture. God does not condemn Man. (2 Peter 3:9; 1 Timothy 2:1-6) Man condemns Man.
@Sean Chaney well I’d like to hear your response to the verse I cited, but I’ll respond yours first....the fact that the Lord with open hand invites those who are weary to come does not contradict or stand at odds with the fact that Jesus himself will condemn (judge) man on that day. If your referring to God’s sovereignty over all things then I suppose I would point you to Proverbs 16:4 and Romans 9, think of Judas Iscariot. The Lord knows who are His. Man doesn’t have the power to save himself or condemn himself...God does that in the ultimate sense.
@@ericdelanoy9570 Nothing in Matthew 10:28 implies that your condemnation is predetermined. Even Judas was not pre-condemned. It wasn't his betrayal which condemned him. It was the fact that he did not seek Repentance later like Peter had after his denial. Instead, he committed suicide. That was not something he had to do. If Romans 9 is your proof text concerning the Calvinist view of election, you are not very scripturally literate.
@@seanchaney3086 Sean....Sean...let’s not talk that way. It’s foolish for you to assume a superior knowledge of the Scriptures. Let’s just reason.....your initial post didn’t mention foreknowledge or predetermination. You said, or implied, that man condemning man is the foundation of Scripture. Which is an outlandish statement, I showed you a verse clearly showing God as the one who condemns men...an inarguable point. Then I realized your where trying to say something different regarding God’s sovereignty in salvation...so yes obviously Matthew 10:28 doesn’t say or imply anything about foreknowledge or predetermination but neither did the post that it was a response to. Sean what I think you are not recognizing is that God is sovereign and omniscient and He sovereignly elects and at the same time man is responsible and acts in accordance with God’s foreknowledge. Maybe you could answer this question....who grants repentance? In the case of Judas who would have to granted him repentance?
James, is "knowing" a verb? Does it take a mind and mental efforts to contemplate something you know? Foreknow as a verb is a very "mentally easy thing to explain because I already have experienced this question and thought about it".. √ example< foreknow is not a super natural power that seeks to bring about outcomes of its own desire. Knowing is also a verb but does knowing make what I know make it come to pass? Of course not! It requires a mind and the use of one to "know anything." Does this make sense? Who hath known the mind of the Lord James? I can see that you haven't gotten the English language down yet.
You are not God, this is God engaging in the verbal action of "foreknowing" and He accomplishes all His purposes (Psalm 135:6). Therefore, προέγνω is not passive foreknowledge.
No matter what mental gymnastics you do, words have structure and purpose in a sentence. No matter what you can say about the word "knowing", it is not the Greek word which was written by Paul, and that Greek word is not passive.
I agree that repentance is important and definitely strengthens one’s faith with Jesus. Having said that, respectfully, Dr. White, you’re position, one’s salvation is also dependent on whether or not they repent, sounds very very close to what Mormons believe, “after everything you can do” which I’m sure you’re familiar with. So let’s not forget what is written in John 3:16 and elsewhere. Faith like a child even.
@41:48 James is apparently unfamiliar with the concept of expounding, by making a statement of truth, and THEN explaining what that statement meant for clarity, which Paul often does, and Peter said that some indeed wrestle with in his writings. So it’s not that Paul is “speaking backwards”, but rather making a statement and then explaining what that means, often by pointing back to OT scripture which came long before his writings. If you are reading Paul’s writings and finding new doctrine that was not already laid out in the OT (in light of the mystery that was revealed in Christ) then you are reading Paul’s letters the wrong way. Paul is attempting to clarify that which was already written, and combat errors that were being introduced as the devil was and is still warring against the church, he certainly was not inventing new doctrines that did not already exist, and IF he was, then by his own words you should not receive such new doctrines, but rather trust in the holy scriptures that even Timothy had known since he was a child, while the NT scriptures were still being penned.
Even with the gospel itself, it was first presented in the OT from the beginning yet vailed in mystery, which was later revealed in Christ, that we are then EXPECTED to go and read back into the scriptures (OT) to properly understand them in light of Christ.
Getting to the end of the video, around 1:17:00, I absolute agree with James, “repent and believe”, that is the message. I don’t agree with the “easy Believism”, that you can somehow be saved yet not repent and continue to live in open rebellion against God. I agree that the text plainly and consistently says that those that are believing are predestinated in their faith to be conformed to the image of God by His Word working in their heart, if you have turned away from the lusts of your flesh to follow after the Spirit, then by following after the Spirit you will walk in righteousness even as He is righteous. The remaining question then is how does God draw people to Christ? Did he individually select them from before the foundation of the world to be draw and saved? No. That is not what the text says. God has given us the law through His nation of Israel, which is an example for us, so that we and they alike can see our sin, and through the law we might be slain (spiritually), to then recognize our need for the Savior Whom He sent to reconcile the Whole World to Himself. He is the Savior of all men, especially to them that believe. And He has called all men every where to repent and believe the gospel, which was preached to every creature. Concerning eternal security, 1 John makes it exceedingly clear that we can indeed know without a doubt that we know Him IF we keep His commandments, which is evident of the grace of His word working in our heart through faith. (As mentioned, good works are indeed the fruit of salvation, not the root - Eph 2:10. We come to Christ to then be made perfect in Him by following after the Holy Spirit of Truth, we do not need to strive to perfection to then come to Him, nor can we apart from Him - John 15:1-11) If we continue to walk after the flesh, then we will surely die. If we turn from our wickedness to trust in Him, and walk in His righteousness after the Spirit, then we shall surely live. (Passages such as Isaiah 45, Ezekiel 18 & 33, help to make this very clear) If we abide in Him, then we will receive the promise of eternal life in Him at His coming, and we can enjoy the benefits of life even now as we walk humbly with Him. He that has the Son (presently), has eternal life in the Son, and he that does not have the Son does not have eternal life, but the wrath of God is on him, and this is the condemnation if we continue to follow after the lusts of our own flesh rather than turning to the Lord to be saved. But just as it would seem foolish for someone to seek chemo therapy without first receiving the diagnosis of cancer by seeing an X-ray of the corruption that is growing inside them, the preaching of the cross also seems foolish to those that are convinced of their own self-righteousness in their own pride. So before they are able to come to Christ, they must first have their proud heart broken by the law to bring knowledge of sin, so that they understand the severity of their position under the mighty hand of God, and therefore humble themselves to receive the grace that the Father has provided for us all by sending His Son. And so, they shall all be taught of God, and those that learn to fear God will then come to the Son to receive the grace of forgiveness. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, and by this wisdom we know to turn away from our own wicked ways to trust in God and walk in His Way of righteousness, in Truth unto Life which is everlasting in Christ.
Not a great dialog. More time should have been given to cross-examination/Q&A. Also terms should have been defined. Clearly both men define a key word in the text "call" differently. Also the big issue of the role of repentance in salvation may have been a better subject to discuss, perhaps a second dialog on that particular issue?
Justification is a legal procedure. Think of a courtroom the Judge and the offender. God the Father is the judge and the UNGODLY is standing to be condemned. Now Jesus the Advocate steps in and says Father I'm Guilty and count it to ME. I have paid for the Sins of him/her. This truly happens in our conscience when we are set free. We live the act of being forgiven in our conscience.
It is annoying that you have to explain the structure of the debate in the middle of the debate. It really shows a lack of respect not to research basic things.
so James said in Romans 8 and Ephesians 1 doesn't say that predestination is based on human faith. that is explained throughout the bible and from the beginning it has been in the context throughout Paul's writings that you must have faith to be saved. if he didn't proof text based on his theology taught to him by other Calvinists and Augustine/Calvin teachings, maybe he would see that instead of eisegesis into the text his theology.
The bible says we are justified through faith, not because of it. Look it up the word "by" in the greek means through or by means of. Justification is applied through the means of faith, we are not justified BECAUSE we had faith. Be faithfull to the text.No where in scripture is the reason for our justification given as faith.The reason is grace,by means of faith.grace is unmerited,not even by forseen faith.Faith is a gift from God,and has no merit in itself.
@@neilgrobson58 God said by faith we are saved. He still does the saving his requirements are to have faith in his word and on His son Jesus. but we have the choice. we arent made to believe
Where does faith come from? Faith is a gift. The word 'believer' is often misused. Remember, even the Devil believes... and... trembles. The elect are chosen before the foundation of the world. Ephesians 2:8-10 New American Standard Bible (NASB) 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
@@SkiesVibrant a gift isn't forced upon. has to be accepted or rejected. hence why the word gift is used. faith isn't the gift, it's the grace of the gift of salvation which has to be taken by faith. and like many Calvinists, you are misreading before the foundation of the world part. that is not talking about the choice of salvation but God deciding before the foundation of the world that those who accept His free gift of salvation will be conformed to be like Christ so that they can be with God for eternity. Not chosen to be saved but the means of salvation and what happens when you accept the free gift of salvation (God's grace). that is again a classic misreading of the text. God can't ask you for faith while at the same time giving it to you. that is contradictory. who ask something of someone and then give it to them? That is illogical. why ask for something that a person doesnt have knowing they dont have it, huh?. makes no sense and God is not a God of confusion that Calvin/Augustine make Him out to be. read scripture without Calvinism colored glasses. going in blind and forget everything taught to you by Calvinism. when i read the bible. never once did i believe Calvinism. then i heard Calvinism all my life and that didnt work with what i read. then i heard the other side and realized that is the truth. nothing about Calvinism was ever believed by the early church until Augustine came along. Then Calvin heavily influenced by Augustine (in his own words) expanded upon Augustine's teachings. Then Calvin's students enhanced and added to it after him. which is what you get today. i would check out Leighton Flowers. He gets into more detail than i could
@@powerdrunk6818 it would better serve you to show your argumentation from scripture alone. Whenever I see this subject debated, I read these long assertions about Calvin, Augustine, etc., instead of digging through the text to make your point. A gift isn't "forced," it is given to someone that doesn't deserve it, hence Ephesians 2:8-9. And since Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith (Hebrews 12:2) and it is God that gives repentance (2 Timothy 2:25), I would say there is plenty of Biblical evidence that shows that faith comes from God.
The greek word for world is kosmos. Look it up. You will find that it means every tribe, tongue and nation. The verse does NOT say every single person who ever lived or will live.
@@guitarman1992bw read revelation. John saw people (not every single person) of every tribe and nation in heaven in his vision. John also wrote the epistles of John. Now go find out why Jesus says no one can come unless it has been GRANTED by the Father
My fair judgment as a KJV-Onlyist is that James White was correct in his exposition of Romans 8. You can come to the same conclusions by simply reading the words on the page and defining them by their primary sense and grammatical construction; I recommend Webster's 1828 Dictionary for your study. However, Jeremiah 19:5 refutes his absolute predestination theory because MIND primarily means intention. God is not the author of sin and neither does he have pleasure therein (Psalm 5:4).
Right, I just wanted an example since, in the description of this video, Apologia church is lying by claiming Jason believes repentance isn't necessary.
@@Nxsai that's what they believe and Jason in the video vocally stated that you don't repent for salvation and additionally to that he said the KJV doesn't say that
Thank you Dr. White for "The Potter's Freedom." Great book that got me over the edge into finally being convinced of Reformed theology.
So glad I allow the Holy Spirit to guide me in theology and not a flawed mans book! Reformed theology is wrong! It makes God the author of sin... HE is NOT. And it makes passages about Israel about individual salvation (Roman's 9) which is not Paul's purpose in that passage!
@@markwhite5926 You are correct that God is not the author of sin. However, if God is indeed sovereign, then the mere fact of sin's existence must surely testify to the fact that God sovereignly permits sin for the time being in order to serve His ultimate purposes and bring glory to Himself. Romans chs. 9-11 are primarily focused on the issue of salvation, since Paul speaks throughout of the fact that Israel is hardened to the gospel now, so that they might eventually be saved thanks to the witness of the church. The fact that Paul so confidently declares that a remnant of Israel will in fact be saved, is itself a witness to God's sovereign election, since clearly it must have been divinely revealed to Paul that God has already elected a remnant of Jews who will yet be saved in the future. God is sovereign over both individuals and nations, and a person can only come to saving faith by God's grace alone through the gift of the Holy Spirit. This is not something that fallen, sinful man can achieve himself, it is a pure gift that is totally of God.
@@markwhite5926 dose God send evil spirits to grow believers?
@@saved6655 there is a difference between God using evil and ordaining evil. How God chooses to working in the life of believers or unbelievers for that matter is entirely up to Him abd the counsel of His own will.
@@markwhite5926
Job 1: 6-8
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them. The Lord said to Satan, "From where do you come?" Then Satan answered the Lord and said, "From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it." The Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil."
“The Lord said to Satan, "Have you considered My servant Job?” He is literally saying satan has it ever crossed your mind to go have at job. What dose God do he takes down his protection over job and says have at him. Now there is reasons here, let’s look at Paul’s thorn.
2 Corinthians 12: 7
Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me-to keep me from exalting myself!
“for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself” “to keep me from exalting myself!” He says to keep me from exulting myself. Here is Paul getting the same thing as job. God literally uses evil to keep his servants straight. It’s hard to hear but it shows Gods sovereignty. This doesn’t make him the author of sin it makes him sovereign. Read the book of job it’s clear
There it was, the big problem people have with believing God chooses who He saves when the young pastor said, well you can't blame God for knowing the future. People blame God for people going to Hell, they think we all deserve a chance just like the one chosen by God. People have a hard time believing God can do what He wants with what He created, I did once as well but it's so clear I couldn't deny it anymore. Now I realized, like Dr White has said, it should be hard for us to believe that God saves anyone, because we all deserve Hell.
God saves whosoever believes in Jesus for Salvation
@KTTGHMTJWYCBLAC exactly
The New IFB pastor says that not everyone who is saved loves God, but the Bible says
1 Corinthians 16:22 (KJV)
22 If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.
*Wblsr* Please don't refer to a/one from this lot to be "IFB". They are distinctly, *NEW* ifb. They preach *AGAINST* what they refer to as the "old ifb". This group is *BINO*
Kman ok I edited my comment to include New IFB.
Kman what is “Bino”
@@itachieyeskill That would be _"Baptist In Name Only"_
There are soooooooooo many doctrines that they teach that are foreign to Baptists of years gone by, yet they will cull out names of Baptists individually and cherry pick things that they might agree with, or what a pastor from yesteryear may have said.
Kman so who is bino ? The new ifb or the ifb ?
55:49
James White gives a clear summary of his opponent in this debate! Check it out.
😂
Well, at least this guy had the wontons to actually engage in dialogue unlike a certain someone who shall remain nameless, cowering behind his computer screen. I'll at least give him that...
P.S. If it wasn't for Dr. White/Alpha and Omega Ministries and Apologia and all the work you fine people have put into debating Roman Catholics I'd probably still be one. I just wanted to take this opportunity to thank you all and for everything you've done. It changed my life.
Awesome Skippy!
@@ifbmike3070 Not quite the proper Christian witness by insulting and calling names.
@@ifbmike3070 Like all those who are involved in a cult, you try to elevate your standing to Christ's authority to judge. The pharisees missed the bus when dealing with proper Godliness and theology, while you and White have a difference in opinion. Unlike Jesus, you had nothing to do with the inspiration of the Scriptures, Christian theology, or judgement. Calling them homo reprobate shows your total disregard and hatred for not kowtowing to your way of thinking. Neither of them are homosexuals, hence you engage in bearing false witness (Exodus 20:16) and slander (2Tim 3:5). Christ, who you say you follow sums it up when He said, But I say unto you, That every idle word that men speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgement (Matthew 12:36). Instead of dealing with Whites argument and why you disagree, you move straight to acting out the behavior of a sixth grader. It is very sad that you did not read the entire verse you were alluding to with Christ calling them vipers. O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things (Matthew 12:34-35). We can see that the reason for your slander and false witness comes from your heart and according to Christ, such careless words will be judged. I disagree with Durbin and White on Calvanism, yet I will not resort to acting contrary to the Scriptures such as you just did.
@@ifbmike3070 Nor will I ever resort to wishing for their deaths.
@@ifbmike3070 Again you show your hatred and inability to obey Scripture to live peaceably with all men and show that what you say is hatred from your heart according to Christ. No one will look at your behavior and desire to have what you have in Christianity since there is no discernible difference between your current behavior and the world. The Scriptures also tell us that we are to correct error, which does more good than running around calling those who disagree with us as retards. Heck, you place yourself equal to Christ's authority to call people names, yet you shy away from Christ's example to correct false teaching. Remember, if they are lost, it ISyour responsibility to correct false teaching since Christ died for them too. Again you slander and bear false witness by calling them effeminate. Neither are catamites, homosexual, or prostitutes. While I agree that Jesus tasted death for all people, you need to remember that includes White and Durbin. Wishing for their death is wrong and shows hatred and according to the apostle John in his first epistle makes you guilty of murder. You've lied about the man and were careless with your words along with being guilty of murder in your heart. How are you better than White who does not resort to such behavior? That beam has blinded your sight my friend.
This guy seperates 'to them that love God' from 'to them who are the called according to His purpose'. But that's bizarre hermeneutics. Those that love God ARE those that are called by God. Paul is talking about the same type of people.
Also no Christian keeps God's commandments perfectly, so does no Christian love God? That's ridiculous!
Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
(It’s pretty clear nobody loves God)
Exactly....
It is unbelievable that someone intercepts scripture like this. I really have no words for IFB folks.
These guys represent the "new" IFB. Most Independent Baptists wouldn't have anything to do with these guys.
@JoeyD ikokll mom
“I was translating the Greek directly...” mic drop
Haha. Thought the same thing
@@winburna852 that's funny cause like 5 new ifb pastors speak Greek and read greek. Nice try though
@@winburna852 so a 2 hour and 50 min video from the 1970s is gonna tell me what preachers who weren't even born believe. They believe the tr in greek says what the king james says. Not word for word because nobody could read it but an accurate and perfect translation. How hard is that to understand.
@@winburna852 not really. Do you think that I should learn greek to know the bible
@@winburna852 you think I should learn greek?? Wow. How to talk to someone who thinks God only speaks in one language. Must be tough do you think I should learn hebrew too that's nonsense
Pastor Jeff, praise the Lord! So happy to see you in studio healthy! May the bless you and keep you. Good discussion Dr. White.
Dr. White was extremely gracious with Pastor Robinson.
Jason Warren Agreed
Closing statement by the IFB Pastor was scary. I will pray for him and the people he is teaching.
From 49:50 to 53:45 is how the conversation always goes with these people. One person wants to look at Romans 8 and the other person wants to look at every other verse except Romans 8.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." You can't just take one part of the Bible and define it in your own words. All scripture must be validated throughout the entirety of the Bible with supporting passages to come up with the truth.
@@alexf.3699correct all of scripture will be consistent with itself, so a whole doctrinal statement that Romens is making will explain all of those areas like that passage in a Timothy.
I could listen to Dr. Whites exegesis during his 15 minutes 10 times a day. What a clear explanation of those verses! I wish he would do that for the whole book of Romans!
@@pastordrjameswhite9606 you’re a clown
Mr. White claims that a repentance requires stopping all sin and constantly being “cleansed” when we sin again. Sounds like catholic heresy.
@@markc4176 Your saved once right?
@@3n197 Yes, I was “saved by grace through faith,” and “not of works.”
@@markc4176 no he believes in repentance (a changing of mind toward Christ) and he believes in perseverance of the saints. Meaning if you are truly saved you cannot be lost but if you are truly saved you will be in a process of sanctification.
That’s why I love when Michael Brown debates James White because they both go at it!!
Indeed! Of all his opponents, Dr. Brown is the only one who actually respectfully debates
@@michaeljessicapayton I would also add to that list of James White’s respectful opponents Mitch Pacwa.
I feel bad for this guy. Did I hear correctly that this is his first debate? Who jumps into the ring with James White for their first debate?
He seems to not know James reads Greek, or where he stands on Gods sovereign decree, etc. I can’t imagine never doing a formal debate, and knowing nothing about Pastor White, and then jumping into a debate about Romans 8 with him.
Though I agree with James White's position, it seems to me that the claim that proginosko as an active verb is never used about events or circumstances but always about persons may be countered by 2Pe 3:17
If you notice, Jason did with Hebrews 6 what he did with Eph 2, he read the end verses back into the first one he read. These verses start with, "it is impossible..." So, what is the question that should be asked of these verses? What is impossible?
Yep. He is using the cherry picking verses school of thought.
Great analysis at the end Jeff, with a caring heart.
I think Dr. White did a great job, but I have to commend this brother’s polite and friendly demeanour. It’s refreshing, because some of Dr. Whites opponents were not so polite and friendly lol
I’m about 60% through so I’m not sure if ti goes off the rails after this point lol
....Wait till you hear how the NIFB talk about Dr James White when they are not being recorded. 😨 They don't call Dr White a Brother in Christ. They were rude and nasty, that's why Dr White invited him for a talk. Their fruit can be rotten. If you watch the other video where Jeff and James talk for an hour before this debate....they tell you how vicious and cruel Steven Anderson and his crew are towards Jeff and James. Don't let appearance deceive you. God Bless. 📖🔥
Did this pastor knew Mr White ? I don’t think he even knew who he was dealing with. Bringing text from here and there is an evidence that he didn’t understands chapter 8, non the less Chapter 9 ? He sounded to Rookie, his answers, presentation, everything. Good luck to his congregation .
I thought that it was interesting when he said it does not negate the fact that Jesus died for all (JOHN 3:16) even though it says he intercedes for us who are saved.
John 3:16 does not say that Christ died for all. It says he died for those believe and that those would not perish.
I want to hear Dr. James White go over every verse in Revelation.
James patiently helps him ask questions of himself.
😂
What a Master Debater that Dr. White is, and how kind he was to Jason. You know they wouldn't of treated Dr White that way if he was in their turf. He truly is a Godly man. They, the NIFB's are devoid of true biblical understanding. They simply hate Reformed Theology because they haven't been Born Again into God's Kingdom. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth. Which everyone Born Again receives. If they had experienced the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit...they wouldn't hate Election, Predestination Foreknowledge...all biblical doctrines. The Natural man...one can understand the Gospel, and a surface level of scripture...doesn't mean they are Born Again into God's Kingdom. I am praying for this Pastor he seems like a nice man. And l salute Dr. White for showing us what Holy Spirit wisdom looks like. Praise God for men like him. God is good. 🐑📖🌷
This is an interesting debate that has a contrast of skill and familiarity with the format who peppers his opponent with light blows but the unskilled opponent who has force of truth standing shaky but impressively landing haymakers.
The way dr James exegetes the text verse by verse is applauding.
Ephesians 2:8-10 (AKJV) 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
Titus 1:16 (AKJV) They profess that they know God; but in works they deny being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
Ephesians 1:12 explanation: the context of “first trusted” was the fact that Paul was talking to people who came to the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ after him. Just a linear statement not a theological one.
In Luke 5:22 - 23 we are told that Jesus perceived the thoughts of the scribes and Pharisees and answered them appropriately . There is nothing in that reference that projects that He put those thoughts into their minds or decreed them into their hearts. John 2:24 also tells us that Jesus knows what's in man. There is nothing passive about God knowing the the hearts of those that will respond to His redemptive revelation and carrying out the work of justification based on their receiving Christ by faith ( Ephesians 2:8 - 9; John 1:12).
There's also a difference between those who Christ died for which is the whole world ( John 3:16 - 17; 1 John 2:2), and who He is mediating for which are those who received His redemption. Hermeneutic subversions and grammatical manipulations won't detract from the plain truth of scripture.
Justification is a work of God the Father and the Holy Spirit in us and without us. Justification and faith do not have a sequence in time but in order Faith- Justification but are simultaneously in time. It is the Ungodly who are Justified by faith, not the believer. Sanctification is a work of The Holy Spirit in us but not without us. Justification and sanctification cannot be separated. There is no sanctification without justification or justification without sanctification, this even when sanctification is just a begin of regeneration through all our life. It is sanctification that produces the FRUITS of the Spirit. Faith is by Grace and the free gift of God. Faith does NOT produce Works; But the Holy Spirit Who renews us to be a new creation in Christ works in us Fruits of the Spirit. However they will be counted as ours.
It is by faith that we are justified and because our sins are blotted out we now receive the Holy Spirit Who works in us and renews us to have fruits. Ephesians 5: 8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light 9 (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth), 10 finding out what is acceptable to the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness,
Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy “works” [read Fruits], and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Only a God that knows the end from the beginning can be the God of the Bible.He wrote all of human history before time and we are living out what He wrote for His glory
yet he tells man everywhere to repent.so he decreed that too omg he decree evil an sin too as piper says.an u believe that.
@@bobfree1226 Right,God commands people to repent and believe,but it is impossible for those in the flesh,the natural man,to either know or understand anything spiritual or even obey any of God's commands(1 Cor 2;14 and Romans 8:7),therefore,this is how we know that if anyone does repent and believe it is because GOD HAS GIVEN THEM A NEW HEART! It is proof that God has caused someone to be born from above,they are no longer dead in sin,they are no longer natural men but spiritual ones.
@@CBALLEN God is Not willing that ANY should perish but to come to him.clear scripture negates all calvanism
Paul said christ died for OUR sins,but Not for ours ONLY but for the sins of the whole world. goodnite,and wake up
@@bobfree1226 That simply means,that Christ died for the Believing Jews and also for GENTILES (the world),since 1JOHN was written to believing Jews
Does anyone do a good exegesis on the Hebrew "clobber" passages? Can anyone point me to some info.
Please and thanks folks!
Yeah, this IBF preacher has no seminary training. That’s IBF churches have their own echo chamber version of what they refer to as a “Bible College” or “Institute.” It’s probably on site at whatever church he attended before being “called” to preach. SMH
Jason Robinson, this is what happens when you bring a knife to a gunfight. Next time you debate, you should be familiar with the arguments from the other side and the rules of debate. Thank you, Dr. White, for once again demonstrating that our God is sovereign and that ALL things have a purpose.
Was good, but was extremely unmatched... He didn't know who James was whatsoever. I can't handle this kinda of crazy exegesis (exeCrayCray)
Was a good listen overall, and I'm thankful for you Mr. White. God bless
Max Headroom.... LOL!!!! HA HA HA!!!! Great descriptor Dr. White!! God Bless both of you for such a tolerant debate with one another.
The issue I have is James white could be wrong but his intellect and speech far exceeds that of his opponent. Which can easily give the illusion of him being correct.
Everyone examine his words and examine the scriptures, and scrutinize diligently.
Luke 1 Well said.
I generally would agree with a statement like that, but based on what they covered it appeared that White made the point that romans 8:28-34 is talking about believers only and not unbelievers. Maybe you could explain what you believe about those specific texts. Thank you brother!
True true Brother. We must scrutinize James' opponent"s (Ps. Robinson) words and his exegesis of Rom. 8:28-34 and other scriptures he uses to judge him incorrect as well. The winner and loser of this debate must be judged on the basis of his use the text not our traditions and fears. Let scripture defend itself, but we must be faithful to the scripture alone to establish what scripture has to say.
How can you criticize him for having articulated his point better than this opponent?
Poor James!! God has given you patience to deal with closed minded Christian's. It's sad to see that ppl won't change what they believe even when it's explained in the original language.
I agree James should repent
My take on this debate:
They're both on the "saving faith" book, just not on the same page. They both believe the same saving faith taught in the Bible.
Dr. White's on the 1st stage towards "acquiring that saving faith", while Ptr. Robinson's on the 2nd step which is an "acquired saving faith".
My basis: both side's closing statement.
Matthew, James White teaches what the Bible teaches, saving faith is a gift from God.
@Quigle- Dorf Would "accepting" this faith be pleasing to God? We cannot do that according to Romans 8:7-8. We have to be granted new life, we cannot "accept" this new life, we must be given it. Just like Lazarus couldn't "accept" his resurrection, he was granted new life.
Aww James is actually teaching this guy how to debate. How nice
Those who add Deuteronomy 6:5 to 1st Corinthians 15:1-4 are adding law keeping to the gospel they're not saved for doing so Romans 3:28 Romans 4:4-6 Romans 11:6 Galatians 1:8-9 Galatians 2:16
James White and Jeff Durbin in his comments at the end show they don't understand this issue. The grace of God is only going to be applied to people who accept it. The grace of God is the gift, not faith. Having the ability to accept or reject the perfect work of Christ does not negate the perfection of the gift of grace and the work of Christ. And they can't even understand that Ephesians 2:10 says we "should" walk in the good works, not that we will.
Please...does anybody know the source for the great acoustic guitar music in the intro to this video?? God Bless
I'd like to know as well!
@@TheJambird1 You will never know, so you keep coming back.
Hey I know that it has been two years since you asked this question but I think that the music at the beginning of Dr. James White’s broadcasts is Jason Lavik. It sounds like his music and I think it is his record of “What a friend we have in Jesus”.
Not trying to take jabs, but what this debate proves is that you should have a good education before you become a pastor.
Actually being a Pastor is a calling, ordination, and calling of God.
I would say it like this: If God calls you to be a pastor, don't be lazy. Take it seriously, study the word diligently. Become a berean.
That is a jab.
Not trying to take jabs either, but what this comment proves is your prejudicial conjecture.
How can I recognize if someone has been called of God to the pastorate?
I have a question, why don’t calvanists be honest when witnessing to others ? Why would you tell some random person on the street that Jesus loves them and died for them? Maybe that person is not elect, in which case your statement about Jesus dying for their soul would be FALSE .. explain
Exactly!
We don't tell unbelievers that Christ died for them.
It's that simple.
This idea that people have a completely free will, not in subjection to either God or sin, is crazy.
People don't see sin for what it is. Sinners aren't free at all, the Bible says the one who commits sin is a slave to sin, and sin is a hard master which only God can set us free from.
When God sets a person free, through regeneration, they are empowered and set right by God to do the things He has prepared for them to do. We're been corrected, set right, and we are able to love God and love our neighbor, as we were created to do.
We are lead by the Spirit and God sovereignty takes over. Jesus saves and he saves who the Father gave him, no one can save others nor themselves.
J Mach But you are missing the point - If you tell someone who is not of the elect and someone you claim Jesus didn’t die for that Jesus did die for them... you are LYING to them and LYING is a sin? So you are sinning against your own belief 🤦♀️
At 19:15 James White asserts that foreknowing is NOT having foreknowledge. Which is strange to me, because to foreknow something is the same as having foreknowledge of that thing. But later at 20:15 when illustrating his point that there are actions that God has performed and that they are a golden chain of events that make up God's redemptive work, he does two things I take issue with. The first is tie together the the word foreknew in Romans 8:29 to the word knew in Genesis 4:1. The Genesis reference is Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived. Does anyone else find this disturbing? The reference in Genesis is clearly a euphemism for a husband and wife having intercourse. It means that Adam knew Eve intimately and as a result she conceived. They are clearly not the same. The second is subtle, but he redefines foreknowing as choosing. He does this deferring to other translations that would translate foreknew as chose. choosing is not that same as foreknowing by a long shot. His whole argument hinges on a false idea that foreknowing is not the same as having foreknowledge and that foreknowing is the same as choosing, both are wrong.
If you listen closely, he explains that the Greek word for "foreknowing" is active, not passive, and that foreknowing is applied to a person, not an event. The reason he tied this back to the OT is because "foreknow" is also used in the OT and is used to describe God choosing Israel.
Pastor Robinson doesn't seem to be remotely interested in Dr. White's responses. Brother Robinson, it may help for you to be engaged in the conversation and try to understand the other side. Dr. White is so educated and sincere about honoring God and scripture. You may learn something from him, even if you disagree.
Callaway Cass Why are you complaining if you believe God has already predestined this debate according to His will? Are you complaining about what you believe God has done? 🤦♀️ you see how illogical and foolish Calvinism is.
Wow. Can't believe Jason scoffed at the 53:00 mark. Cardinal rule in debate is do not huff, scoff, laugh or sigh.
no excuse to him, but to be fair most of whites opponents will do sm like that, look at white v Silverman. they all do that
I find it a bit silly that IFB types roll their eyes at the original languages and proper grammar. It’s so sad to see so many just want to believe what they want rather than what the Word of God said.
rms 5194 just so you know, Pastor Robinson has also studied Greek, but he intentionally avoided any argumentation based on the greek as he view the KJV sufficient
rodcas1611 knows it and still rejects it?? Wow. What a shame.
The original language is sufficient.
IBF ‘types.” Right.
Worse yet, the sovereign grace “types” who apparently can’t adequately “prove” their doctrine with a mere King James Bible, or even 150 other translations, because that would eliminate the opportunity to showboat with their very own personal translation of “the original Greek.” Wow, it’s the King James White “Bible”. Awesome. Or not.
@@rodcas He studied greek? Sure wasn't revealed here.
I want to hear this pastor’s interpretation of Romans Chapter 9 without God’s sovereignty. That would blow my mind. He would have to make up something that contradicts the text’s context completely.
You're in luck. He's preached the entire book of Romans:
ua-cam.com/play/PLG7zVofYLdG-gMYO3_IwVvara6xcsLXQc.html
Michael Brownhill The problem is that you have made the KJV your ultimate authority. Even the translators rejected that idea. There are many translations issues with the KJV, especially in the end of the book of Revelation. God preserved his word evidently in the abundance of copies of the NT Greek works we have that are still in existence.
Also not everyone that loves God is saved, WHAT? The Bible is very clear that none seek for God and that we are enemies of God so if a person loves God that is pretty obvious that they are saved.
Sound gets messy at 54:08. They continue in 1:00:04
"It is much easier to wear a cross than to bear a cross"
@@pastordrjameswhite9606 If you don't get that bs out my face..
Not to mention 1 Corinthians 10:14 says NOT to wear a cross to honor Christ :P
@@pastordrjameswhite9606 are you for real?
@@pastordrjameswhite9606 this is the craziest scam
@@jordangarvin9282 Yeah they have been hanging around too many Prosperity preachers and buying Joel Osteen books :P
Lol I don’t agree with your translation well it’s from the original Greek. Umm kjv onlyist just took a nose dive
This is one of the most clueless IFB pastors I've ever heard...and I grew up a STAUNCH, HARDCORE KJV Only, Dispensational, IFB. It's almost as if his mind has already been made up, he's not even going to hear any other view, and is willingly ignorant. Hmm...why does that seem familiar with my past experiences?
I wish I knew what IFB was?
@@dwashington1333 independent fundamental baptist
Is it me or is this pastor trying to emulate Stephen Anderson. His voice and dialect are almost identical.
They have one spirit. lol
Lol! I thought the exact same thing at the beginning of the video.
So to say I accepted Jesus as lord and savior or to think any of that was a choice of my own is considered boastful from a calvinistic perspective? Wow
Can you show me any verse that says salvation is of your own free will actions. You can't as it does not exist. Salvation is completely of the Lord That is what scripture teaches.
John 6:37-39 King James Version (KJV)
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
John 6:44 King James Version (KJV)
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Darenegadegeneral, of course you would not think it is boastful because any testimony on how you repented and believed is wonderful. Where the boastfulness is revealed is if you compare your choice to another who heard the same gospel message and never trusted the Lord. Why did you choose on your own and another didn't? You had faith, but he didn't. You understood the message of salvation and he didn't. You wanted the Lord Jesus Christ, and he didn't. See the contrast. You chose something that is wonderful and desirable of your own will, but the other person didn't. He could have (by the free will definition), but he just didn't have the faith or understood the message or wanted Christ as much as you did. This is the reason Ephesians 2:8-9 says what it says. Once we realize (as we grow in the Lord) that it is God that changed our hearts and desires to even want Him, salvation becomes all of God and not of our "decision."
Salvation in Jesus Christ is the only saving I know of that the person being saved talks about their decision being saved as the ultimate source of that salvation. It's like a fireman pulling an unconscious man out of a wrecked car using the jaws of life and later the man talking about how he grabbed the fireman's hand to be pulled out, saving himself with the help of the fireman. No, a unconscious person will later thank the fireman for what he did. We were spiritually dead, children of wrath and disobedience by nature (Ephesians 2:1-3), but it is God who made us alive when we were dead based on love (Ephesians 2:4-5). And being alive or born again is not by the will of the flesh or man, but of God (John 1:13). So while you certainly wouldn't call it boasting to say you chose God on your own, you would have room to boast because someone else didn't choose God because they couldn't muster enough faith like you.
Sure thing SkiesVibrant:
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
See that if right there? IF you believe THEN you're saved. It's a choice everyone makes.
Darenegadegeneral “You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide,” - John 15:16. “who were born not of blood, nor of will of flesh, nor of will of man, but of God” - John 1:13. “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.” John 6:44. “Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.” - Matt 16:17. None is righteous, no, not one;
no one understands;
no one seeks for God - Romans 3:10-11.
We were Dead in trespasses and sins. We must be born again. The body sin and the old man is crucified and buried with Christ, then raised to newness of life with Christ. Just as a baby cannot choose when it is physically born, also a man cannot choose when he is spiritually reborn or raised from spiritual death. It is thru God’s Grace that saves by faith. It’s not by works.so that no one can boast. No one in heaven will be boasting that they’re in heaven and their former boss isn’t because they chose Christ and their boss did not. Make sense?
That’s lordship salvation. Accepting Jesus as lord and savior in the scripture doesn’t exist and came about 50 years ago. You are saved through faith and not of yourselves
Working all things for good refers to God's plan to (re)establish a nation of people who will serve him. The plan is referenced in numerous Old Testament passages like Daniel 7, various parts of Isaiah, etc. It doesn't mean blessing the lives of individual obedient Christians, like this IFB guy seems to think. Nor does it require God to actively take control of everyone's minds and make their decisions for them, like James White seems to think. It just requires God to intervene and shape spiritual and political developments on earth.
I couldn't watch the video because he kept saying "Predistinated" lol Who the heck says that?
the Merriam-Webster dictionary says it
It's in my KJV.
That audio glitch at 54:00 actually sounds pretty cool.
What's the music in the beginning of the video?
Please provide transcript of debate for us to read.
James White won this debate easily through faithful biblical exegesis and was very gracious to pastor Robinson. Robinson never made a compelling biblical argument and was clumsy but raised some good philosophical questions. I'm not sure if they were answered properly and will need to listen again. Robinson showed a lot more class than the peers calling names, using vulgar language, bearing false witness and other things which show bad fruit/bad tree.
I’d love to hear how those from the IFB camp would explain salvation in the Old Testament. Their inconsistencies would grow and their theology would unravel I’m sure .
Inconsistencies? They were saved by faith! Abraham's faith was counted as righteousness. Pretty darn consistent
Els I agree and faith is a gift based on Gods election of grace
“But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.”
Romans 11:4-5 KJV
@@jgeph2.4 God isn't willing that any perish. Jesus died for all.
Els I agree , God will not not let any of His elect perish because Jesus died for all of them.
Do you believe God makes all things for Himself , even the wicked for the day of evil?
So your question was answered and no inconsistencies were shown. An apology would be nice, Jamie Gallagher.
What software do you use to parallel the Greek and English? Thank you for your work.
It should be Logos Bible software.
If that is not the one. Logos Bible software still does it.
Just pointing out one glaring flaw made by Durbin(perhaps White agrees). Faith is NOT a work and is the direct opposite of a work. Faith isn't meritorious, works are. Believing on Jesus Christ isn't grounds to boast at all. Durbin is behind the times by still parroting this non-starter. God saving you via faith in him does not mean you merited anything whatsoever, this is biblical. So no, Durbin, there is no "worry" about a boasting issue. It's in Romans, not sure how you can miss it.
"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." - Romans 4:5
"To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." Romans 3:26-28
Amen to the scriptures you quoted but in one of the passages they quoted in the previous video they referenced ephesians 2:8 where even faith is said to be a gift of God. And then afterwords in verse 10: "For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them".
Tony, Faith is the gift and work of God, not our own work.
Philippians 1:29
"For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake."
Ephesians 2:8-9
"For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
John 6:29
"Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”
@@johnmyers3450 The only verse you listed that seems to really prove anything to me could be Ephesians 2. The problem is you made a grammatical error.
ua-cam.com/video/QiHN6a5bQb0/v-deo.html
KJVO/IFB: "Obviously, I reject whatever version you're using."
James White: "Well, I was reading from the original Greek."
BOOM.
He's most likely reading from a different Greek text (NA as opposed to the TR) so that's just a moot point
@@gleon1602 Funny how the Lord works. Since posting this (2 years ago), I've actually come back to the primacy of the TR. I was raised KJVO for 23 years (1988-2011), switched over to being primarily ESV in 2011, and was (re-)convinced of the Textus Receptus for myself in August 2022 rather than simply following a position my parents held.
@@DanielMoore45 Praise the Lord!
Yikes ....repentance "is a work" ? That teaching is absurd.
Repentance OF SINS is good works
To REPENT alone is not works because you do not work when you only change your mind. . But to repent from sins clearly is works because it is you who are to repent from sins and not Christ.
WhatsApp with the intro? Pastor Robinson never said he believes repentance isn't necessary for salvation...
Brilliant brilliant exegesis Dr. White. Repentance not necessary? What was the central theme of Jesus ministry after his temptation? Matt. 4:17 " From that time Jesus began to preach "Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." But I kind got the feeling this debate went completely over the Pastor's head. Throughout he had no clue to Dr. White biblical exegetical presentation.
‘Repent’ means to ‘turn’, it does not mean ‘turn from bad works/sin’.
Repentance from dead works to faith alone on Jesus Christ is the truth.
If one has 99% faith on Jesus and 1% in his own works or on another god, then he is not saved. They need 100% faith in Jesus Christ alone that he died and rose again for all our sins
@@celtic_baptist So what are you turning from if not sin? And that can ONLY happen though the Spirit. For the flesh profits nothing (John 6:63).
Turn from unbelief to belief on Jesus Christ alone. Once you do that you are spiritually born and saved bro! By turning from bad works or sin is fleshly. As you said the flesh profits nothing. God bless
James White contradict himself. In minute 46:50 he says: "Does God give all things to those who is in hell"? And in his dialogue with Steven Anderson he says in minute 2:22:46 "There is nobody in hell". Is there people in hell yes or no?
there is often confusion between the final lake of fire and Hades. If one wants to nitpick, Hell (in Revelation) is unoccupied whereas the dead of Hades/Sheol is. Anderson wants to dismiss the distinction because it is not translated as such in the KJV, but there is a distinction, but for everyone who does not dabble in theology the distinction doesn't seem to bear a difference for their purposes
beloved, I don't know you in person but God knows you. God ministered to me in a revelation when I was on your profile to see things around you, I saw blessings but spiritual attacks holding onto them, in prayers, I saw a woman in the realm of the spirit monitoring and plotting delay in your life, with an evils mirror, and with motive to destroy. but as I speak to you now her time is up, render hand of favor with anything you can afford or give to these motherless foundation (motherless babies home foundation) in Lagos state before 2 days with towards faith, as I rise my hands heaven and pray for you they shall serve as point of contact wherever you are, you will received double portion of grace to excel and total restoration of breakthrough in your life and in the life of your family. ask for their account details and help them call the MD in charge of the orphanage to get their details on (WhatsApp or call them now on (+2348166495905) him I sent an you. for it is not by might nor by in power but of the spirit faith the lord (Zechariah 4: 6) you shall testify to the Glory of God in your life. God bless you.,,
It is possible that you don’t comprehend either. James white doesn’t contradict himself you just don’t have the capability to comprehend
This guy to me is super disrespectful to assume pastor and Dr White doesn't know the things he is saying that he should read. Everyone should be willing to learn and change their mind when facts are given to you over and over.
There is a really simple way to prove this.
Did God know you would be saved before he made you? Yes
So God chose to make you the way he did, knowing that you would be saved? Yes
That's predestination, and election.
Now from the NIFB guys point of view, as an individual, that doesn't know the beginning from the end, all we need to do to be saved is believe.
For I know that the Lord is great, and that our Lord is above all gods. Whatever the Lord pleases, he does, in heaven and on earth, in the seas and all deeps. He it is who makes the clouds rise at the end of the earth, who makes lightnings for the rain and brings forth the wind from his storehouses. He it was who struck down the firstborn of Egypt, both of man and of beast; who in your midst, O Egypt, sent signs and wonders against Pharaoh and all his servants; who struck down many nations and killed mighty kings, Sihon, king of the Amorites, and Og, king of Bashan, and all the kingdoms of Canaan, and gave their land as a heritage, a heritage to his people Israel. Your name, O Lord , endures forever, your renown, O Lord , throughout all ages. For the Lord will vindicate his people and have compassion on his servants.
Psalms 135:5-14 ESV
I'm not a scholar or anything, but in Jeremiah 19:5, the Hebrew says literally that it did not "come upon my heart" for the Israelites to sacrifice their children in the fire as worship to YHWH. It does not say that He did not know that it was going to happen.
@@choicemeatrandy6572 what would what mean?
@@choicemeatrandy6572 Hebrew is the original, so it does not change the meaning. There is no word for brain or mind in Hebrew, it's only ( לִבִּֽ ) Heart. If we cherry-pick the English phrase, " and it did not come into my mind" you can make it say that God had no idea that this would happen . which would be contrary to other passages of scripture. What it's saying in context is that God wanted them to know through Jeremiah that sacrificing their children in the fire is absolutely not a commandment of God. that's it.
@@choicemeatrandy6572 Merry Christmas by the way.
I misunderstood your last comment. please disregard what I previously said. I don't necessarily hold to that position. However, Jeremiah 19:5 doesn't eliminate that interpretation. It's possible that the real picture is that humanity as a whole is fallen in sin and as a result is capable of only doing evil. God, works everything out for his purposes despite human evil. because He exists beyond our space-time, there is nothing that has happened or will happen in our timeline that he does not know.
What I'm saying is, people are evil, God is good. sometimes God allows evil people to commit the grievous acts of their heart to their own judgement. And sometimes he helps it along, like when he hardened pharaoh's heart. I can say with confidence that God is in control.
I was a little surprised that Pastor Robinson did not take Mr White to task on "Yahweh" (that "w" being wrong, unless you are German). I suppose it was off topic.
Without the Universality of The Gospel, there is no hope. Calvinism suppresses that hope. (John 1:29; 35)
Do you believe that all people are/will be saved and go to heaven?
17 verses before that it said this:
John 1:12-13 NASBS
[12] But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, [13] who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
@@jackgtx440 No one is depriving you from receiving the Gospel,
@@seanchaney3086 nobody except an unregenerated heart.
@@jackgtx440 You do not have to be your unregenerate heart, my friend. The Pharisees were called "broods of vipers." They were also called to Repent. They were not blocked from doing what God told them to do. Do you believe that?
At the very beginning of him talking he buries himself in his own folly, he says that not all people who are saved loves God. WHAT ?!?! And this guy is a pastor ?!? It's a shame and I shouldn't even be surprised, what foolishness is on display here.
@webballs_hk your lost
1 Cor 16:22 "If any man not love the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema..." Shows their complete ignorance. How humiliating for Pastor Jason. Wonder if he realizes how he looks to the studious Reformed Theologian? 🤦🧑🦯🔥
Dr. White did a fantasic job of defending the Reformed position. I applaud Pastor Robinson for being civil. If it would have been a debate between Dr. White and Steven Slanderson, Slanderson would have thrown out his points and then called Dr. White a "heretic" and a "homo".
That's why Anderson wont actually debate him.
That's why Anderson did an "interview" that allowed him to push and question Dr White but then move on to a new question whenever he didn't have a response.
This was great. Thanks for sharing. Keep up the good work.
This makes me think about soul winning which the other pastor brought up. I agree with you Dr. White just so thats clear. I love everything you and Jeff do and Ive learned so very much from you guys! Im trying to think about soul winning now though because plp are learning to ask questions (especially someone who used to believe and is now an atheist) such as “I f God only actually died for the believers only and right now Im unbelieving, then whats the point. Its almost like why are you trying to soul win me then if Im destined for hell. If plp who believe are predestined to do so then whats the purpose?” Now I know the purpose and I could state that purpose which is you cant hear without a preacher etc etc, but then I feel like am just fishing and hoping to catch that huge elusive fish and all the rest are doomed anyhow. It can be discouraging.
And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
1 Corinthians 2:4-5 KJV
Another example of James white and his words of man's "wisdom." God bless you Pastor Robinson.
Javan Hansen Oh Brother. 🙄
You’re cherry picking Bible verses to shame someone of a concept I don’t think you or Robinson understand. Let me be clear I am not definitive on the subject myself, but hearing this debate I saw that,
White expressed understanding of predestination and the implications of Romans 8. Robinson’s responses persisted in his bias, saying things like, “I disagree with that translation,” when it was read straight from the original Greek. And continuing statements, like, “I feel...” or worst of all, “I disagree with that...” with (WHAT?) Robinson doesn’t even explain what precisely he disagrees with, he just continues down his thought trail as if it justifies his disagreement.
He even accused White of not using Bible versus, when Dr. White continued to quote the book/chapter/verse of many statements that support his claims.
Again, I’m not even a fan of Dr. White, I tried shaking his hand at the G3 conference last year and he totally ignored me. (Granted it was the intermission of the debate and I now know it isn’t appropriate to interrupt the break time since it is meant to prepare the speaker)
All I’m saying is, that using scripture out of context to shame a person is cult like behavior that shouldn’t exist in the body of Christ. Both speakers were here for one thing, an edifying debate of Romans 8:29-35 and for the most part, both sides did just that, represent their understanding of the text, and edify the sheep with the Word of God. Enticing words are for people like Deepak Chopra, Bethel pastors, and Hillsong. Spirit and Power comes straight from the word of God, which is what this conversation was tied to. In fact, your statement reminds me of people in those heretical groups seeing that you prefer this approach to a defeated debater that you support, rather than accepting that Robinson could have been better prepared.
It's sad that a man as educated as James White can be duped by a teaching which contradicts the very foundation of scripture. God does not condemn Man. (2 Peter 3:9; 1 Timothy 2:1-6) Man condemns Man.
Read Matthew 10:28
@@ericdelanoy9570 Read Matthew 11:28-30. That Rest is an open invitation.
@Sean Chaney well I’d like to hear your response to the verse I cited, but I’ll respond yours first....the fact that the Lord with open hand invites those who are weary to come does not contradict or stand at odds with the fact that Jesus himself will condemn (judge) man on that day.
If your referring to God’s sovereignty over all things then I suppose I would point you to Proverbs 16:4 and Romans 9, think of Judas Iscariot. The Lord knows who are His. Man doesn’t have the power to save himself or condemn himself...God does that in the ultimate sense.
@@ericdelanoy9570 Nothing in Matthew 10:28 implies that your condemnation is predetermined. Even Judas was not pre-condemned. It wasn't his betrayal which condemned him. It was the fact that he did not seek Repentance later like Peter had after his denial. Instead, he committed suicide. That was not something he had to do. If Romans 9 is your proof text concerning the Calvinist view of election, you are not very scripturally literate.
@@seanchaney3086 Sean....Sean...let’s not talk that way. It’s foolish for you to assume a superior knowledge of the Scriptures. Let’s just reason.....your initial post didn’t mention foreknowledge or predetermination. You said, or implied, that man condemning man is the foundation of Scripture. Which is an outlandish statement, I showed you a verse clearly showing God as the one who condemns men...an inarguable point. Then I realized your where trying to say something different regarding God’s sovereignty in salvation...so yes obviously Matthew 10:28 doesn’t say or imply anything about foreknowledge or predetermination but neither did the post that it was a response to.
Sean what I think you are not recognizing is that God is sovereign and omniscient and He sovereignly elects and at the same time man is responsible and acts in accordance with God’s foreknowledge. Maybe you could answer this question....who grants repentance? In the case of Judas who would have to granted him repentance?
This guy is fighting so hard because he just can't let the Bible speak for itself...
James, is "knowing" a verb? Does it take a mind and mental efforts to contemplate something you know? Foreknow as a verb is a very "mentally easy thing to explain because I already have experienced this question and thought about it".. √ example< foreknow is not a super natural power that seeks to bring about outcomes of its own desire. Knowing is also a verb but does knowing make what I know make it come to pass? Of course not! It requires a mind and the use of one to "know anything." Does this make sense? Who hath known the mind of the Lord James? I can see that you haven't gotten the English language down yet.
You are not God, this is God engaging in the verbal action of "foreknowing" and He accomplishes all His purposes (Psalm 135:6). Therefore, προέγνω is not passive foreknowledge.
No matter what mental gymnastics you do, words have structure and purpose in a sentence. No matter what you can say about the word "knowing", it is not the Greek word which was written by Paul, and that Greek word is not passive.
I agree that repentance is important and definitely strengthens one’s faith with Jesus. Having said that, respectfully, Dr. White, you’re position, one’s salvation is also dependent on whether or not they repent, sounds very very close to what Mormons believe, “after everything you can do” which I’m sure you’re familiar with. So let’s not forget what is written in John 3:16 and elsewhere. Faith like a child even.
That’s only due to a misunderstanding of the view. Repentance is evidence of salvation. It comes from being saved. That’s James White’s view.
Does the name Steve Tassi ring a bell?
@41:48 James is apparently unfamiliar with the concept of expounding, by making a statement of truth, and THEN explaining what that statement meant for clarity, which Paul often does, and Peter said that some indeed wrestle with in his writings.
So it’s not that Paul is “speaking backwards”, but rather making a statement and then explaining what that means, often by pointing back to OT scripture which came long before his writings.
If you are reading Paul’s writings and finding new doctrine that was not already laid out in the OT (in light of the mystery that was revealed in Christ) then you are reading Paul’s letters the wrong way.
Paul is attempting to clarify that which was already written, and combat errors that were being introduced as the devil was and is still warring against the church, he certainly was not inventing new doctrines that did not already exist, and IF he was, then by his own words you should not receive such new doctrines, but rather trust in the holy scriptures that even Timothy had known since he was a child, while the NT scriptures were still being penned.
Even with the gospel itself, it was first presented in the OT from the beginning yet vailed in mystery, which was later revealed in Christ, that we are then EXPECTED to go and read back into the scriptures (OT) to properly understand them in light of Christ.
Getting to the end of the video, around 1:17:00, I absolute agree with James, “repent and believe”, that is the message.
I don’t agree with the “easy Believism”, that you can somehow be saved yet not repent and continue to live in open rebellion against God.
I agree that the text plainly and consistently says that those that are believing are predestinated in their faith to be conformed to the image of God by His Word working in their heart, if you have turned away from the lusts of your flesh to follow after the Spirit, then by following after the Spirit you will walk in righteousness even as He is righteous.
The remaining question then is how does God draw people to Christ? Did he individually select them from before the foundation of the world to be draw and saved?
No. That is not what the text says.
God has given us the law through His nation of Israel, which is an example for us, so that we and they alike can see our sin, and through the law we might be slain (spiritually), to then recognize our need for the Savior Whom He sent to reconcile the Whole World to Himself. He is the Savior of all men, especially to them that believe. And He has called all men every where to repent and believe the gospel, which was preached to every creature.
Concerning eternal security, 1 John makes it exceedingly clear that we can indeed know without a doubt that we know Him IF we keep His commandments, which is evident of the grace of His word working in our heart through faith. (As mentioned, good works are indeed the fruit of salvation, not the root - Eph 2:10. We come to Christ to then be made perfect in Him by following after the Holy Spirit of Truth, we do not need to strive to perfection to then come to Him, nor can we apart from Him - John 15:1-11)
If we continue to walk after the flesh, then we will surely die.
If we turn from our wickedness to trust in Him, and walk in His righteousness after the Spirit, then we shall surely live.
(Passages such as Isaiah 45, Ezekiel 18 & 33, help to make this very clear)
If we abide in Him, then we will receive the promise of eternal life in Him at His coming, and we can enjoy the benefits of life even now as we walk humbly with Him.
He that has the Son (presently), has eternal life in the Son, and he that does not have the Son does not have eternal life, but the wrath of God is on him, and this is the condemnation if we continue to follow after the lusts of our own flesh rather than turning to the Lord to be saved.
But just as it would seem foolish for someone to seek chemo therapy without first receiving the diagnosis of cancer by seeing an X-ray of the corruption that is growing inside them, the preaching of the cross also seems foolish to those that are convinced of their own self-righteousness in their own pride.
So before they are able to come to Christ, they must first have their proud heart broken by the law to bring knowledge of sin, so that they understand the severity of their position under the mighty hand of God, and therefore humble themselves to receive the grace that the Father has provided for us all by sending His Son.
And so, they shall all be taught of God, and those that learn to fear God will then come to the Son to receive the grace of forgiveness.
The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, and by this wisdom we know to turn away from our own wicked ways to trust in God and walk in His Way of righteousness, in Truth unto Life which is everlasting in Christ.
Not a great dialog. More time should have been given to cross-examination/Q&A. Also terms should have been defined. Clearly both men define a key word in the text "call" differently. Also the big issue of the role of repentance in salvation may have been a better subject to discuss, perhaps a second dialog on that particular issue?
Justification is a legal procedure. Think of a courtroom the Judge and the offender. God the Father is the judge and the UNGODLY is standing to be condemned. Now Jesus the Advocate steps in and says Father I'm Guilty and count it to ME. I have paid for the Sins of him/her. This truly happens in our conscience when we are set free. We live the act of being forgiven in our conscience.
It is annoying that you have to explain the structure of the debate in the middle of the debate. It really shows a lack of respect not to research basic things.
so James said in Romans 8 and Ephesians 1 doesn't say that predestination is based on human faith. that is explained throughout the bible and from the beginning it has been in the context throughout Paul's writings that you must have faith to be saved. if he didn't proof text based on his theology taught to him by other Calvinists and Augustine/Calvin teachings, maybe he would see that instead of eisegesis into the text his theology.
The bible says we are justified through faith, not because of it. Look it up the word "by" in the greek means through or by means of. Justification is applied through the means of faith, we are not justified BECAUSE we had faith. Be faithfull to the text.No where in scripture is the reason for our justification given as faith.The reason is grace,by means of faith.grace is unmerited,not even by forseen faith.Faith is a gift from God,and has no merit in itself.
@@neilgrobson58 God said by faith we are saved. He still does the saving his requirements are to have faith in his word and on His son Jesus. but we have the choice. we arent made to believe
Where does faith come from? Faith is a gift. The word 'believer' is often misused. Remember, even the Devil believes... and... trembles. The elect are chosen before the foundation of the world.
Ephesians 2:8-10 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
@@SkiesVibrant a gift isn't forced upon. has to be accepted or rejected. hence why the word gift is used. faith isn't the gift, it's the grace of the gift of salvation which has to be taken by faith. and like many Calvinists, you are misreading before the foundation of the world part. that is not talking about the choice of salvation but God deciding before the foundation of the world that those who accept His free gift of salvation will be conformed to be like Christ so that they can be with God for eternity. Not chosen to be saved but the means of salvation and what happens when you accept the free gift of salvation (God's grace). that is again a classic misreading of the text. God can't ask you for faith while at the same time giving it to you. that is contradictory. who ask something of someone and then give it to them? That is illogical. why ask for something that a person doesnt have knowing they dont have it, huh?. makes no sense and God is not a God of confusion that Calvin/Augustine make Him out to be. read scripture without Calvinism colored glasses. going in blind and forget everything taught to you by Calvinism. when i read the bible. never once did i believe Calvinism. then i heard Calvinism all my life and that didnt work with what i read. then i heard the other side and realized that is the truth. nothing about Calvinism was ever believed by the early church until Augustine came along. Then Calvin heavily influenced by Augustine (in his own words) expanded upon Augustine's teachings. Then Calvin's students enhanced and added to it after him. which is what you get today. i would check out Leighton Flowers. He gets into more detail than i could
@@powerdrunk6818 it would better serve you to show your argumentation from scripture alone. Whenever I see this subject debated, I read these long assertions about Calvin, Augustine, etc., instead of digging through the text to make your point. A gift isn't "forced," it is given to someone that doesn't deserve it, hence Ephesians 2:8-9. And since Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith (Hebrews 12:2) and it is God that gives repentance (2 Timothy 2:25), I would say there is plenty of Biblical evidence that shows that faith comes from God.
Every time he says predestinate I can’t help but laugh
what does predestinate mean
1John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
The greek word for world is kosmos. Look it up. You will find that it means every tribe, tongue and nation. The verse does NOT say every single person who ever lived or will live.
@@SkiesVibrant Very very true
So every tribe tongue and nation dosent mean every man? What does every tribe tongue and nation mean then?
@@guitarman1992bw read revelation. John saw people (not every single person) of every tribe and nation in heaven in his vision. John also wrote the epistles of John. Now go find out why Jesus says no one can come unless it has been GRANTED by the Father
@@route2033 please tell me what verse you are referring to.
Does IFB stand for Independent, Fundamental Baptist?
Yes, but this man is part of the NEW IFB, which is an offshoot of that. Just google NEW IFB for more info.
My fair judgment as a KJV-Onlyist is that James White was correct in his exposition of Romans 8. You can come to the same conclusions by simply reading the words on the page and defining them by their primary sense and grammatical construction; I recommend Webster's 1828 Dictionary for your study.
However, Jeremiah 19:5 refutes his absolute predestination theory because MIND primarily means intention. God is not the author of sin and neither does he have pleasure therein (Psalm 5:4).
What does IFB stand for?
Independent Fundamental Baptist
At the end of the day, Study the Word and ask Holy Spirit to guide and confirm. No one knows everything.
46:00 literally hurt my brain
Nowhere did Jason claim that repentance isn't necessary for salvation. I expect your apologia shortly.
That is what Andersonism and the New IFB Cult teach. We encourage you to look into it and we pray you escape.
Give one example of any New IFB preacher claiming repentance isn't necessary for salvation.
Right, I just wanted an example since, in the description of this video, Apologia church is lying by claiming Jason believes repentance isn't necessary.
@@Nxsai that's what they believe and Jason in the video vocally stated that you don't repent for salvation and additionally to that he said the KJV doesn't say that
@@sisco2k2 No where did he verbally state that. You guys need to stop lying.