Started my plumbing apprenticeship a little over 6 months ago. Never thought id be so interested in plumbing, I get out of work and watch videos about work lol. Love the content, there's so much to learn in this trade i like getting all the knowledge i can.
Im not a plumber but your idea of adding the ball valve with a copper fitting makes tons of sense. Not only can they turn the community water back on while they work. But they would then have made their lives easier should they need to redo this repair in the future. My work is fountain beverage and when i repair or install somrthing im usually thinking of down the road repairs.
We did a water system for a Combat Outpost in Iraq, and what we did was use a circular design on the water distribution with isolation valves between the different sections of the posts. This worked great. You could shut off just one section of water main and not put everyone down. It also meant we could go a bit smaller on the mains for both ease, cost, and durability.
The pvc most likely cracked and the chewed marks is the soil churning in the water eroding the pipe away. I’ve seen this before. Definitely brass nipple and ball valve or better, a meter riser valve.
+1 There's no way those are chew marks. They're too smooth edged and not regular enough to be from teeth. That's erosion my friend. My guess is that the crack was caused by the stiffness of the vertical pipe connection to the main not having any way to deal with ground movement. And because of that, they're going to see a lot more such issues. A swing joint is the correct answer here, not pest control.
I've never seen that Mike. Interesting. We have had rats in north Texas eat at the PEX pipe and PVC drain pipe to get to water. It's crazy. Where are you located?
We see this all the time it starts as a stress fracture the longer the water leaks it makes wear marks on the pipe I've seen this a lot. I have a red brick that has been rounded into a cylinde shape from a spraying water line.
@@RogerWakefield I’m located in Sunnvale California. Better known as Silicon Valley. Land of the tech giant’s who are fleeing in your direction. Have fun dealing with the Prius and Tesla drivers.
I like your idea about going one size up when using pex and sharkbites. Definitely install a water stop when you are already in there! A $27.00 part to save multiple people from being inconvenienced and to have to be the plumber who has to do another repair in the future.
I’m a second year apprentice in Bellingham wa. The company I work for just started doing pipe bursting for water and sewer lines with the Roddie r8 system. I think it’s awesome technology, but it’d be awesome to see a video from you about pipe bursting and what you think of it.
Watching videos like this make me glad that I'm retired! Having said that, the very first thing I'd do different is have my backhoe operator dig a bigger bell hole! It's not like anybody is having to hand dig, or anything. I like Viega Pex fittings much better than those crimp rings and they also have that pipe (Fosta Pex) that has a coating that is supposed to eliminate critters from chewing through, I'd have used that pipe too. Of course, I'm not on site and have no history of the place so it's hard to say for sure what I'd do in this guy's shoes except for digging a bigger hole to work in. And in the back of my mind I'm thinking way outside the box and digging deeper into my customer's pocketbook but Propress is always an option and critters are certainly not going to chew through copper. And the ball valve idea is a good one but my experience in putting any valve underground and not in some sort of valve box isn't good. Those steel handles won't last a year underground if not protected and you end up with a valve that is difficult to exercise. So if I was going to install a shut off valve in this situation I'd at the very least, sleeve this thing in 8" SDR, so it could then act as a shut off for whatever that leg served. I'm saying 8" because that's what I have handy behind my shop and 6" PVC is really too small when you consider the handle. 10" or 12" would be even better but I don't have that handy. Anyway, you asked what we would do in this situation and nobody else was offering any suggestions or opinions and I have a ton of those! I'm also gonna say that working in these conditions during winter can be miserable and that would have an effect on how long I wanted to spend in this hole. I'm not going to spend any more time that absolutely necessary trying to feel my fingers. So, there is always that.
I agree, that hole is so small the poor guy has to bend from the waist and basically work upside down. If you dig a ditch big enough he can crouch & work level. Years ago when I worked for a gas utility the foreman would always make us dig a big & deep enough hole, regardless if we were digging by hand or with a backhoe. Plus if they dug that hole deeper & bigger it would fill with water slower after he pulled the pump out.
I agree,with all the lead free brass,the valves are susceptible to decay under the best circumstances, then add being under ground to the mix.Sounds like a recipe for disaster.
Not a plumber, but totally agree about putting a valve in the service side to get the water on quicker. Done some plumbing on my parents farm, well placed shut offs are must.
Looks more like erosion from the water, a small crack or leak just got bigger and bigger as the erosion worsened. Could easily have been from compacting the soil after the repair, or from driving the implement over the repair. It would have been pretty hard for that large of a rodent to get into that tight spot on the adapter, and the marks were too smooth for chewing.
I agree. I believe the pvc male adapter cracked and the water pressure made the marks as it blew by. I never like to use pvc males because the are too week in that application.
Great information. I've seen rats do about the same type work on a DWV PVC line to get water out of the p-trap. Do you find this often? Where are you located?
@@RogerWakefield I'm not a plaumber, but work on idustrial and scientific equipment in the field. I've seen plenty of electrical and fiber optics chewed by rodents. One time on 20+ cables in a multi million dollar radar. Cats will do this too, I hear that there is a compound in the plastic insulation that attracts them. I have seen plenty of hydraulic and water lines that have failed and eroded. With rodents there are "tool marks" as the leading edge of their teeth are never smooth. That just looked way too clean for a rodent, plus once you add in the possibility of cold weather which akes PVC even more brittle, I expect it cracked right there at the neck reduction.
@@RogerWakefield I have seen it before in oklahoma many times. I have also seen it in central oregon many times. I was taught not to use pvc males on water lines outside or at all because of them failing like that. I would bet you can put a male adapter on a short piece of pipe and a call on the other end. Put a small crack at the bottom threads and put pressure to it for about a day and you will see the same results.
I agree with you Roger about increasing the size of the pipe. The pressure remains the same, it's the volume of water flow that's restricted. 80lbs. is 80lbs. regardless of the size of the pipe.
i would be mad tooi hate low water pressure , plumbers doing things like this and modern Eco friendly faucets and shower heads means modern houses and apartments barely have any water pressure
Hi Roger, I’m a plumber in west central Minnesota. I’m just wondering if it actually legal to put a ball valve ungrounded. Up here in Minnesota and it’s illegal to do that.
As a plumber I alway make sure I have all different kinds of tools I need for any give situation cause in a moment like that I'd just use my nipple extractor and remove the broken piece to have people get their water back on immediately
I did a digout for a repair, where it was discovered that a previous person had tried to repair an inch and a half water line at a 90, with a PVC compression coupling. over the years, it had been pushing out just enough to crack the pipe at the shutoff valve - after the 90. plumbers glued all the pipe, and it hasn't had a problem since.
Fully agree with using a larger size for PEX. I would also have ran the supply line back a couple of feet further and eliminated the 90 degree fitting completely. PEX can make some decent bends even in cold weather. Also have to agree with the shutoff valve in there somewhere. But I would put that higher up so it can be accessed like a meter box so maybe right before it goes into the existing supply. I would also have made sure to backfill around the main with pea gravel but that is mainly so the critter chewing for water would stay away from that area.
Hi Mr. Roger. You had asked me which videos in particular I like of yours. I like most of them actually. I am a chemist in real life and a handyman at home who enjoys trying to half arse fix things. I just like your American honesty and demeanor and work ethic. Keep up making the videos.have a MERRY CHRISTMAS.
Rodents can do all kinds of damage. I'm in the Northeast and one day was at the local hardware store where a customer had a flooded basement. He said a chipmunk tunneled down 8 ft to his foundation's footing drain and blocked it causing the water to back up into his house.
My company runs 3/4 inch PEX mains and we build manifolds with 3/4 by 1/2 tees to pick up our fixtures. I didn't know it was undersized until Roger. But it's the way the company wants it done. If I ever start my own company or do any of my own plumbing work I'll keep in mind that pex fittings cause water restrictions. I'll upsize for sure
I used to work in irrigation systems and we used to have nipple extractors like a screw driver that you put in there and unscrew the broken part that was on the main instead of using the screw driver and breaking it
I like running a wire right along the pipe so the lines can be located more easily. I learned this doing irrigation, We ran wire along with pipe from the control timer to the valves. Easy to use a locator to trace the pipe. As soon as you got past the valve, there was no more wire and locating the existing poly pipe to miss hitting it when pulling in more pipe for a new zone was a guessing game.
Good video here in my home town. This is a problem all over OKC with moles and muskrats. Then in other locations the soil is acidic and eats away at the copper lines. You end up with not one but several pinhole leaks. Lets just say the the guys pulling pipe replacing lines have plenty of work. Great video.
He doesn't have any backflow valves either. Or is there a backflow valve on the Mobile home? They should put an Access box with a turn off valve and backflow valve to every unit. And definitely turn off valve at every home
Love my trade and love Roger. Always learning. I didn't know they made a pvc adapter to pex. I'm in new construction and haven't experienced this yet but. Now I know.
Agree with nip. And ball valve. Thread X sweat turn water back on. Then soft copper Attaching two PVC with Ford coupling.dont care much for pvc water lines or crimp fittings.
I dont understand why anyone would use PEX underground, the soil is always moving, then the soil will scrape up the pipe. I would much rather use something like PE, it is much stronger and will last alot longer. I would also never use pushfit, once you get movement in it, it will start to leak eventually.
I work for a city and we use pex all the time. We’ve always had really good luck with it and never really had leaks other than thinner pex people before me had installed and it had hairline cracked. I agree on the no shark bites underground. I don’t really even like using them inside a house but shark bites underground is a leak waiting to happen.
@@jsncrso No i meant PE, it's an oil based pipe that nearly every plumber in Norway uses underground, it is much harder and thicker than normal pex, and can withstand a lot more pressure because we can weld it. we are not even allowed to use pex underground without a pipe outside of it for protection.
With rodent problems, I'd put the pex pipe inside some kind of metal conduit. The beauty of a conduit is that you can replace the pex pipe without so much digging. You could also fashion sweeping 90s for less connectors.
I do maintenance for a mobile home park. Its been a nightmare between broken clay sewer mains, and water leaks. I bet this was a property owned by RHP.
Why a ball valve underground and buried? I could understand if it would be easy access for the future but it wouldn't be. I would use a corp stop instead.
I can’t believe how shallow that main is, here in Toronto minimum 6 feet, but I guess you can be shallow because no frost, even then you’re still gonna have the rodent issue, should of used soft copper, that’s what we use off the city main, solid stuff and definitely won’t get chewed threw, good post love the videos.
I would have added an accessible shutoff valve as well. I probably would have done this repair in pvc. I've heard pex is more weather tolerant then pvc so honestly pex might be the best move
They dont allow PEX undergeound here where I am. We have to use HDPE now. They used Copper mostly before that. PVC is a no-no as a main. When I was in California we used a lot of PVC but in my location still no PEX.. Also the wouldnt allow PEX underslab at all unless sleeved and insulated.
I don't know if I'd use a regular ball valve for that purpose unless I was installing a water meter pit because the valve will end up getting buried. As an alternative to the ball valve, I'd put in one of those angled curb valves that takes a key to turn on and off. A little less intrusive to put in a smaller curb valve box than a meter pit.
A small crack in a male adapter will cause a stream of water to erode PVC like that i question it was a animal sch40 male adapter will always crack under any stress they cracked it doing the first repairs. To repair sch80 or brass nipple to female adapter with SS ring or put a hose clamp over female adapter to help brace threads to prevent cracking.
You are right on all points. I saw erosion wear just like that working in irrigation repair. I also saw erosion into control cables and brass fittings. Used female adapters on wells (galvanized pipe to pvc) with hose clamps.
Honest question. If critters are a problem is there a different material that could be used. I understand that copper would not be good for in ground work due to freeze break issues. But what about shielding repairs with some type of metal? Like pex inside of large diameter galvanized or something.
In the country I am currently living in, in the country side we have these really huge ground rats that also chew on wheat and eat root veggies. They have known to chew through underground wiring and pipes.
@@RogerWakefield I'm currently working in Burma, and live in the city of Yangon. The rural areas and some neighborhoods that have not had that much development (the land used to be swamp and farms, think Florida Everglades style type of land and topography) have a lot of ground rats and rodents. Sometimes even mongoose.
Made three calls on moble home one leak at a time , found out pine squirrels were hauling in pine cones and sunflower seeds to winter in under trailer between felt bottom and floor . They were using pex pipe for water supply and to sharpen there teeth .On my last call there sits the neighbor on a lawn chair with a pellet gun . He had three and working on his fourth. Rodents can cause big trouble in the wrong place .
I think what you are calling bite marks is actually erosion from the leak. Water will swirl with sand or clay and cause this. I used to see this on a regular basis when I worked in irrigation repair in FL. Given enough time it will cause a larger leak or a secondary leak. I have seen it erode through control cables and brass fittings also. We did have damage from pocket gophers on the older hydraulically controlled systems. People would have gopher piles in their yard and suddenly a zone of sprinklers would come on. They would chew through the quarter inch polyethylene control lines like they were a root. I would show up in my cape and feather boa and save the day.
I’m not a plumber, but I screw around with lots of things. I think I would have replaced it with the same thing that was there, and then wrapped it with a concrete “cast” to keep the rodents from chewing on it. Probably not a great idea for future serviceability, but it solves my current problem for good.
Our water management company after digging up half of our yard over the course of multiple weeks because they kept finding leaks was not happy to find PVC in the ground, I wonder if that's mostly because it breaks but also because of Critters. And I definitely like the idea of putting a valve off the main branch I thought that was standard practice but I guess not. And our case we found out the main was literally next to our meter so close enough that once repiped we had a valve again it was the two feet of pipe between the valve and the main that had a snap on one of the multiple PVC fittings. They must have been in a hurry to fix it last time? Without all the necessary parts and had to run to the hardware store. I would also recommend to use as few fittings as practicable.
Some sort of critters enjoy chewing the top of our vinyl/PVC privacy fence just the same. Squirrels are the only things we really have that would be tip-toeing up there on the edge.
Knowing a critter is there I would have replaced it with copper, used 2 45's to soften the turn, and wrapped it to insulate. Seeing as Copper & Brass are harder than teeth the little bugger would take 1 bite & think twice. The repair would cost more upfront but would be more secure from future attacks.
I’ve had to do this before... I would have waited till all the water drained out and used a torch to help soften the old pvc then pried it. Second here in California you can’t have pex joints under ground so I would have dug it back and just glue joints on everything and from my experience that doesn’t look like a critter chewed threw the pipe I’ve seen this before it looks like the mip adapter was leaking for some time and ate at the pipe. Water is very destructive to PVC
@@edwardmarshall2035 yeah we can’t even have them here same for our copper we can’t have copper joints under ground everything is soft copper brought up above the slab.
Personally I don't think they are chew marks. Chew marks a typically more rough and all over the place. I usually find the same damage on pvc that has been leaking for sometime. As water makes it way out it erodes the pvc giving it that smooth shape. That's just what I think, been plumbing for 16 years and everytime I find chewed up pipe, its never that smooth.
Where I live I get the water supply from municipality large metal pipe, so things like that have not happened where you need to shut off the community's waterline. From there I connect it to siliphos filter and than to water pressure regulator (in night water pressure can rise significantly and cause pipes to burst without it). After that I have pex pipe going to the house under the floor through sleeves that allow to pull any line quite easily and insert new line. I had once a very small leak from one of the lines in house replacing the line was easier and faster than finding from where the leak is coming.
As a young diyer i wouldn't use sharkbites under ground i probably would of done pvc with a shut off valve and made a accesses to the shut off valve as i think in community's like this there needs to be shut off valves thru the park(also grew up in a mobile home) so you dont have to shut everyones water off the less you inconvenience them the better you look or your company look
I would do the brass and pex, but then wrap the entire thing in rodent proof tape. There's a couple golf courses I did the irrigation design for that used it for badgers. Works great.
Shark bites should never be used Underground unless you some kind of waterproof wrap. I found this out the hard way the soil depending on the acid content will rot away the brass and the coupling will blow apart. You can use shark bites in the ground with a special silicone wrap.
Not a plumber but I love your videos! I have no idea why you showed up in my recommended, Roger, but I’m glad you did. Subbed and been binging love the content brother 😁
I've always wondered what the inside of the average drinking water pipe looks like. How fresh is the water reeeally? And also how a water leak is found, if it's not visible on the surface like in this clip.
Would probably just have done 3/4PVC again, but with a cut off valve and union. If its somewhere you don't get frost, i'd put the cut off valve closer to surface level. Drop a 2" Cast ion pipe over the lower portion. That will prevent the big rodents from getting to it. Big rodents dont do long tunnels close to the surface, it collapses too easily.
Chew marks? Mmmmmkay.. It was the water leaking from the crack. I'm sure you thought of the valve after the fact, or they would've DEFINITELY installed one. Chew marks 🤦♂️ oh brother.
I actually recommended the valve before the repair. I was there to observe not work on the pipe. They did not have a valve with them that wasn't SharkBite.
@@RogerWakefield Ahhh, welp a slip by thread into a ball valve off of the pvc would've got them the shut off. Then whatever u want out of the ball valve. All good, just let us know when you find out what Critter that was that chewed up the pvc and caused the leak 🤦♂️
If you have water line breaks in that area you either have a mole infestation or prairie dogs. The later are the worst at chewing on plumbing and also fiber optic lines. Depending on local codes you can't remove them. I would also recommend installing zone shut offs that way the entire community would not be out of water. As far as the work goes if it works.
I would not use a sharkbite, and I would definitely not use one underground. But they did take that out. But, was that male adapter going into an underground chlorination tank? And if so, wouldn't that mean they reduced the main water line, to the whole park, down to ¾"?
Thread a Corp stop in then run Pex to a mueller pack joint 90. The mueller pack joints don’t restrict flow like shark bites, they are similar in concept but the fitting matches inside diameter to inside diameter. I hate shark bites with a passion, almost as much as you do. Lol
Couple things, first that looks more like a small leak that in time with sand slowly eroded the fitting, second, Oklahoma allows crimped pex fittings underground? We had to use ford fittings or rehau system. Don’t get me wrong I like rehau fittings but they are the king of expensive specialty tools. Also in my experience there is only two types of pvc water pipes used underground, those that have broken and those that will break later.
After the first leak I'd be contacting pest control to recommend a ground poison for when the gopher came back. Then got him out to set up preventative maintenance.
I always take my pex up a size when replacing PVC or copper. It's just safe. I also branch from a larger size down to a smaller one, rather than go to a small size then T off of that, for the same reason. I guess The Expert Plumber wasn't asked if they should use a larger diameter pipe?
I would have installed a ball valve too. Get the water back on and it gives you a little more working time to work on the problem and not rushing things. Great mask too Roger.
Started my plumbing apprenticeship a little over 6 months ago. Never thought id be so interested in plumbing, I get out of work and watch videos about work lol. Love the content, there's so much to learn in this trade i like getting all the knowledge i can.
You realize others are going through the same hell at work. U don't feel so isolated.
I want to start an apprenticeship so bad but I don’t have one available anywhere near me :(
@@christopherwilson2606 can’t say it any better 😂
@@tslubsgaming6715 call a bunch of your nearby plumbing companies and ask about it
When’s your bout to sleep at 3am but roger makes a new video
Isn't that the best time?
😂😂😂
here in germany the video came at 17:00 (5pm) xD
it came out at 11:00 am CST
@@RogerWakefield yes
Im not a plumber but your idea of adding the ball valve with a copper fitting makes tons of sense. Not only can they turn the community water back on while they work. But they would then have made their lives easier should they need to redo this repair in the future.
My work is fountain beverage and when i repair or install somrthing im usually thinking of down the road repairs.
that mask made me WHEEZE
Lel
We did a water system for a Combat Outpost in Iraq, and what we did was use a circular design on the water distribution with isolation valves between the different sections of the posts. This worked great. You could shut off just one section of water main and not put everyone down. It also meant we could go a bit smaller on the mains for both ease, cost, and durability.
The pvc most likely cracked and the chewed marks is the soil churning in the water eroding the pipe away. I’ve seen this before. Definitely brass nipple and ball valve or better, a meter riser valve.
+1 There's no way those are chew marks. They're too smooth edged and not regular enough to be from teeth. That's erosion my friend.
My guess is that the crack was caused by the stiffness of the vertical pipe connection to the main not having any way to deal with ground movement. And because of that, they're going to see a lot more such issues.
A swing joint is the correct answer here, not pest control.
I've never seen that Mike. Interesting. We have had rats in north Texas eat at the PEX pipe and PVC drain pipe to get to water. It's crazy. Where are you located?
We see this all the time it starts as a stress fracture the longer the water leaks it makes wear marks on the pipe I've seen this a lot. I have a red brick that has been rounded into a cylinde shape from a spraying water line.
We see this at work from improper transitions in fittings where it causes turbulence and actually eats a hole through the PVC from the inside out..
@@RogerWakefield I’m located in Sunnvale California. Better known as Silicon Valley. Land of the tech giant’s who are fleeing in your direction. Have fun dealing with the Prius and Tesla drivers.
"ALL the home owners were able to get their water back on"
A happy ending
I'm not gonna lie, I don't even do repairs. But I find these videos very entertaining and I learn at the same time.
Too busy hacking into every terminal in sight I suspect!
Adam we have fun making them. That's for sure!
10:28 i woke my house up laughing at that
I like your idea about going one size up when using pex and sharkbites.
Definitely install a water stop when you are already in there! A $27.00 part to save multiple people from being inconvenienced and to have to be the plumber who has to do another repair in the future.
I’m a second year apprentice in Bellingham wa. The company I work for just started doing pipe bursting for water and sewer lines with the Roddie r8 system. I think it’s awesome technology, but it’d be awesome to see a video from you about pipe bursting and what you think of it.
Watching videos like this make me glad that I'm retired! Having said that, the very first thing I'd do different is have my backhoe operator dig a bigger bell hole! It's not like anybody is having to hand dig, or anything. I like Viega Pex fittings much better than those crimp rings and they also have that pipe (Fosta Pex) that has a coating that is supposed to eliminate critters from chewing through, I'd have used that pipe too. Of course, I'm not on site and have no history of the place so it's hard to say for sure what I'd do in this guy's shoes except for digging a bigger hole to work in. And in the back of my mind I'm thinking way outside the box and digging deeper into my customer's pocketbook but Propress is always an option and critters are certainly not going to chew through copper. And the ball valve idea is a good one but my experience in putting any valve underground and not in some sort of valve box isn't good. Those steel handles won't last a year underground if not protected and you end up with a valve that is difficult to exercise. So if I was going to install a shut off valve in this situation I'd at the very least, sleeve this thing in 8" SDR, so it could then act as a shut off for whatever that leg served. I'm saying 8" because that's what I have handy behind my shop and 6" PVC is really too small when you consider the handle. 10" or 12" would be even better but I don't have that handy. Anyway, you asked what we would do in this situation and nobody else was offering any suggestions or opinions and I have a ton of those! I'm also gonna say that working in these conditions during winter can be miserable and that would have an effect on how long I wanted to spend in this hole. I'm not going to spend any more time that absolutely necessary trying to feel my fingers. So, there is always that.
I agree, that hole is so small the poor guy has to bend from the waist and basically work upside down. If you dig a ditch big enough he can crouch & work level. Years ago when I worked for a gas utility the foreman would always make us dig a big & deep enough hole, regardless if we were digging by hand or with a backhoe. Plus if they dug that hole deeper & bigger it would fill with water slower after he pulled the pump out.
I am in no way shape or form a plumber, but I still find myself watching every video. Great stuff Mr. Wakefield.
I would call a plumber.
They did!
@@RogerWakefield I would have called you and and have it done your way
@@jchambers2586 The thing about plumbing is you get what you pay for, like everything else.
You wouldn't want to put a ballvalve under ground would fail over time. Would be better with a curb stop would cost more but safer for under ground.
I agree,with all the lead free brass,the valves are susceptible to decay under the best circumstances, then add being under ground to the mix.Sounds like a recipe for disaster.
10:15 "Critter" YES! Reminds me of growing up.
Baumgartner Restorations: "No staples!"
Roger Wakefield: "No sharkbite fittings!"
Oh hey, I thought I was the only one around here! Good to see another Baumgartner fan. :D
Why aren't they using UPONOR, for outside applications, I would NEVER USE PEX-B for an outside application, and I'm a homeowner
Electroboom:"No free energy!"
Quick question.
Are shark bite fittings okay to use in a application where they can be regularly seen?
@@techpriestsalok8119 - Use only compression fittings and ball valves - no soldering, clamps & sharkbite.
Not a plumber, but totally agree about putting a valve in the service side to get the water on quicker. Done some plumbing on my parents farm, well placed shut offs are must.
I completely agree. How deep does their water line have to be?
@@RogerWakefield 18-24" ideally.
Looks more like erosion from the water, a small crack or leak just got bigger and bigger as the erosion worsened. Could easily have been from compacting the soil after the repair, or from driving the implement over the repair. It would have been pretty hard for that large of a rodent to get into that tight spot on the adapter, and the marks were too smooth for chewing.
I agree. I believe the pvc male adapter cracked and the water pressure made the marks as it blew by. I never like to use pvc males because the are too week in that application.
Great information. I've seen rats do about the same type work on a DWV PVC line to get water out of the p-trap. Do you find this often? Where are you located?
@@RogerWakefield I'm not a plaumber, but work on idustrial and scientific equipment in the field. I've seen plenty of electrical and fiber optics chewed by rodents. One time on 20+ cables in a multi million dollar radar. Cats will do this too, I hear that there is a compound in the plastic insulation that attracts them. I have seen plenty of hydraulic and water lines that have failed and eroded. With rodents there are "tool marks" as the leading edge of their teeth are never smooth. That just looked way too clean for a rodent, plus once you add in the possibility of cold weather which akes PVC even more brittle, I expect it cracked right there at the neck reduction.
@@RogerWakefield I have seen it before in oklahoma many times. I have also seen it in central oregon many times. I was taught not to use pvc males on water lines outside or at all because of them failing like that.
I would bet you can put a male adapter on a short piece of pipe and a call on the other end. Put a small crack at the bottom threads and put pressure to it for about a day and you will see the same results.
I agree with you Roger about increasing the size of the pipe. The pressure remains the same, it's the volume of water flow that's restricted. 80lbs. is 80lbs. regardless of the size of the pipe.
i would be mad tooi hate low water pressure , plumbers doing things like this and modern Eco friendly faucets and shower heads means modern houses and apartments barely have any water pressure
Hi Roger, I’m a plumber in west central Minnesota. I’m just wondering if it actually legal to put a ball valve ungrounded. Up here in Minnesota and it’s illegal to do that.
Indiana too
Hey shoutout to the careful excavation. Utility locator here. That cable tv drop was right at the surface and they didn't just rip it out.
I like when you throw the flags into the ground lol
You're in the presence of genius. Roger is the best resource for all things plumbing.
I didnt think you could use crimp pex under ground
As a plumber I alway make sure I have all different kinds of tools I need for any give situation cause in a moment like that I'd just use my nipple extractor and remove the broken piece to have people get their water back on immediately
I did a digout for a repair, where it was discovered that a previous person had tried to repair an inch and a half water line at a 90, with a PVC compression coupling. over the years, it had been pushing out just enough to crack the pipe at the shutoff valve - after the 90. plumbers glued all the pipe, and it hasn't had a problem since.
Fully agree with using a larger size for PEX. I would also have ran the supply line back a couple of feet further and eliminated the 90 degree fitting completely. PEX can make some decent bends even in cold weather. Also have to agree with the shutoff valve in there somewhere. But I would put that higher up so it can be accessed like a meter box so maybe right before it goes into the existing supply. I would also have made sure to backfill around the main with pea gravel but that is mainly so the critter chewing for water would stay away from that area.
Hi Mr. Roger. You had asked me which videos in particular I like of yours. I like most of them actually. I am a chemist in real life and a handyman at home who enjoys trying to half arse fix things. I just like your American honesty and demeanor and work ethic. Keep up making the videos.have a MERRY CHRISTMAS.
Thank you for the feedback. Merry Christmas to you!!!
Rodents can do all kinds of damage. I'm in the Northeast and one day was at the local hardware store where a customer had a flooded basement. He said a chipmunk tunneled down 8 ft to his foundation's footing drain and blocked it causing the water to back up into his house.
Ahh man!! You came to OKC and i didn't know. It would be such an honor to meet you.
You got a good point huge restriction an a ball valve would be a good thing to install.
We fix these problems on new house installs all the time now.
@@RogerWakefield it's a very good idea. Can't hurt anything but make ur job easier in the long run.
My company runs 3/4 inch PEX mains and we build manifolds with 3/4 by 1/2 tees to pick up our fixtures. I didn't know it was undersized until Roger. But it's the way the company wants it done. If I ever start my own company or do any of my own plumbing work I'll keep in mind that pex fittings cause water restrictions. I'll upsize for sure
I used to work in irrigation systems and we used to have nipple extractors like a screw driver that you put in there and unscrew the broken part that was on the main instead of using the screw driver and breaking it
so... you missed the part where the nipple extractor couldn't get a grip on it?
@@kenbrown2808 if there was that part i probably missed it yeah
@@nikitabudeanu791 you did. they cut the threads out because the extractors couldn't get it.
I like running a wire right along the pipe so the lines can be located more easily.
I learned this doing irrigation, We ran wire along with pipe from the control timer to the valves. Easy to use a locator to trace the pipe. As soon as you got past the valve, there was no more wire and locating the existing poly pipe to miss hitting it when pulling in more pipe for a new zone was a guessing game.
Good video here in my home town. This is a problem all over OKC with moles and muskrats. Then in other locations the soil is acidic and eats away at the copper lines. You end up with not one but several pinhole leaks. Lets just say the the guys pulling pipe replacing lines have plenty of work. Great video.
He doesn't have any backflow valves either. Or is there a backflow valve on the Mobile home? They should put an Access box with a turn off valve and backflow valve to every unit. And definitely turn off valve at every home
Love my trade and love Roger. Always learning. I didn't know they made a pvc adapter to pex. I'm in new construction and haven't experienced this yet but. Now I know.
Agree with nip. And ball valve. Thread
X sweat turn water back on. Then soft copper Attaching two PVC with Ford coupling.dont care much for pvc water lines or crimp fittings.
I dont understand why anyone would use PEX underground, the soil is always moving, then the soil will scrape up the pipe. I would much rather use something like PE, it is much stronger and will last alot longer.
I would also never use pushfit, once you get movement in it, it will start to leak eventually.
I work for a city and we use pex all the time. We’ve always had really good luck with it and never really had leaks other than thinner pex people before me had installed and it had hairline cracked. I agree on the no shark bites underground. I don’t really even like using them inside a house but shark bites underground is a leak waiting to happen.
PEX is a lot better than PVC. The scraping action is not a whole lot to worry about either, PEX is some pretty tough stuff.
@@VentShop and pex is just as abrasion resistant as polyetheylene.
PEX is the best thing you can use underground. It's the most flexible pipe which is precisely why you would want to use it. I think you meant PVC
@@jsncrso No i meant PE, it's an oil based pipe that nearly every plumber in Norway uses underground, it is much harder and thicker than normal pex, and can withstand a lot more pressure because we can weld it. we are not even allowed to use pex underground without a pipe outside of it for protection.
Definitely put in isolation valves as each place gets work done to ensure the community does not get interrupted service.
With rodent problems, I'd put the pex pipe inside some kind of metal conduit. The beauty of a conduit is that you can replace the pex pipe without so much digging. You could also fashion sweeping 90s for less connectors.
I do maintenance for a mobile home park. Its been a nightmare between broken clay sewer mains, and water leaks. I bet this was a property owned by RHP.
Why a ball valve underground and buried? I could understand if it would be easy access for the future but it wouldn't be. I would use a corp stop instead.
I can’t believe how shallow that main is, here in Toronto minimum 6 feet, but I guess you can be shallow because no frost, even then you’re still gonna have the rodent issue, should of used soft copper, that’s what we use off the city main, solid stuff and definitely won’t get chewed threw, good post love the videos.
I would have added an accessible shutoff valve as well. I probably would have done this repair in pvc. I've heard pex is more weather tolerant then pvc so honestly pex might be the best move
They dont allow PEX undergeound here where I am. We have to use HDPE now. They used Copper mostly before that. PVC is a no-no as a main. When I was in California we used a lot of PVC but in my location still no PEX.. Also the wouldnt allow PEX underslab at all unless sleeved and insulated.
I don't know if I'd use a regular ball valve for that purpose unless I was installing a water meter pit because the valve will end up getting buried. As an alternative to the ball valve, I'd put in one of those angled curb valves that takes a key to turn on and off. A little less intrusive to put in a smaller curb valve box than a meter pit.
A small crack in a male adapter will cause a stream of water to erode PVC like that i question it was a animal sch40 male adapter will always crack under any stress they cracked it doing the first repairs. To repair sch80 or brass nipple to female adapter with SS ring or put a hose clamp over female adapter to help brace threads to prevent cracking.
You are right on all points. I saw erosion wear just like that working in irrigation repair. I also saw erosion into control cables and brass fittings. Used female adapters on wells (galvanized pipe to pvc) with hose clamps.
Wish someone like you were in Georgia, love your videos.
Honest question. If critters are a problem is there a different material that could be used. I understand that copper would not be good for in ground work due to freeze break issues. But what about shielding repairs with some type of metal? Like pex inside of large diameter galvanized or something.
Currently looking at houses for sale. I worry about it water lines.
Very informative channel- I love it
In the country I am currently living in, in the country side we have these really huge ground rats that also chew on wheat and eat root veggies. They have known to chew through underground wiring and pipes.
Where are you located?
@@RogerWakefield I'm currently working in Burma, and live in the city of Yangon. The rural areas and some neighborhoods that have not had that much development (the land used to be swamp and farms, think Florida Everglades style type of land and topography) have a lot of ground rats and rodents. Sometimes even mongoose.
Made three calls on moble home one leak at a time , found out pine squirrels were hauling in pine cones and sunflower seeds to winter in under trailer between felt bottom and floor . They were using pex pipe for water supply and to sharpen there teeth .On my last call there sits the neighbor on a lawn chair with a pellet gun . He had three and working on his fourth. Rodents can cause big trouble in the wrong place .
I think what you are calling bite marks is actually erosion from the leak. Water will swirl with sand or clay and cause this. I used to see this on a regular basis when I worked in irrigation repair in FL. Given enough time it will cause a larger leak or a secondary leak. I have seen it erode through control cables and brass fittings also. We did have damage from pocket gophers on the older hydraulically controlled systems. People would have gopher piles in their yard and suddenly a zone of sprinklers would come on. They would chew through the quarter inch polyethylene control lines like they were a root. I would show up in my cape and feather boa and save the day.
Got an ad for a dental insurance on this video 😂
I’m not a plumber, but I screw around with lots of things. I think I would have replaced it with the same thing that was there, and then wrapped it with a concrete “cast” to keep the rodents from chewing on it.
Probably not a great idea for future serviceability, but it solves my current problem for good.
I get what you are saying about restricting the flow , but doesn't code only require 1/2" water supply to a mobile home ?
Our water management company after digging up half of our yard over the course of multiple weeks because they kept finding leaks was not happy to find PVC in the ground, I wonder if that's mostly because it breaks but also because of Critters.
And I definitely like the idea of putting a valve off the main branch I thought that was standard practice but I guess not. And our case we found out the main was literally next to our meter so close enough that once repiped we had a valve again it was the two feet of pipe between the valve and the main that had a snap on one of the multiple PVC fittings. They must have been in a hurry to fix it last time? Without all the necessary parts and had to run to the hardware store.
I would also recommend to use as few fittings as practicable.
Some sort of critters enjoy chewing the top of our vinyl/PVC privacy fence just the same. Squirrels are the only things we really have that would be tip-toeing up there on the edge.
Knowing a critter is there I would have replaced it with copper, used 2 45's to soften the turn, and wrapped it to insulate. Seeing as Copper & Brass are harder than teeth the little bugger would take 1 bite & think twice. The repair would cost more upfront but would be more secure from future attacks.
I’ve had to do this before... I would have waited till all the water drained out and used a torch to help soften the old pvc then pried it. Second here in California you can’t have pex joints under ground so I would have dug it back and just glue joints on everything and from my experience that doesn’t look like a critter chewed threw the pipe I’ve seen this before it looks like the mip adapter was leaking for some time and ate at the pipe. Water is very destructive to PVC
Not having pex joints under ground is just good practice, while legal in florida, it's heavily frowned upon.
@@edwardmarshall2035 yeah we can’t even have them here same for our copper we can’t have copper joints under ground everything is soft copper brought up above the slab.
Love your videos my guy.
Just my opinion but i would guess you could feed a small sized trailer home (as shown in this video) off 1/2 pex and have 0 flow problems.
Never seen a critter eat on pvc like that , crazy lol
Happens all the time. I've seen PEX pipe get chewed through inside of walls.
I've seen rats do it often... Where are you located?
I've seen rats chew threw pex but I've only seen it on the red pex never blue, clear or white I don't know if there is a reason or just coincidence.
Personally I don't think they are chew marks. Chew marks a typically more rough and all over the place. I usually find the same damage on pvc that has been leaking for sometime. As water makes it way out it erodes the pvc giving it that smooth shape. That's just what I think, been plumbing for 16 years and everytime I find chewed up pipe, its never that smooth.
That pipe looks like how some apprentices cut stub ups lol
Where I live I get the water supply from municipality large metal pipe, so things like that have not happened where you need to shut off the community's waterline. From there I connect it to siliphos filter and than to water pressure regulator (in night water pressure can rise significantly and cause pipes to burst without it). After that I have pex pipe going to the house under the floor through sleeves that allow to pull any line quite easily and insert new line. I had once a very small leak from one of the lines in house replacing the line was easier and faster than finding from where the leak is coming.
"Critter got a lot of water" 🤣
More than a mouthful!
As a young diyer i wouldn't use sharkbites under ground i probably would of done pvc with a shut off valve and made a accesses to the shut off valve as i think in community's like this there needs to be shut off valves thru the park(also grew up in a mobile home) so you dont have to shut everyones water off the less you inconvenience them the better you look or your company look
no sorry that is water power there bro... not an animal small crack on the threads of that adapter and the water dose that not a rodent
I agree looks like erosion not animal chewings
I really like the idea of using an extra valve to get the water back on sooner!
I would do the brass and pex, but then wrap the entire thing in rodent proof tape. There's a couple golf courses I did the irrigation design for that used it for badgers. Works great.
Shark bites should never be used Underground unless you some kind of waterproof wrap. I found this out the hard way the soil depending on the acid content will rot away the brass and the coupling will blow apart. You can use shark bites in the ground with a special silicone wrap.
Agree shark bite should always be wrapped underground and its still illegal to bury in many states
Not a plumber but I love your videos! I have no idea why you showed up in my recommended, Roger, but I’m glad you did. Subbed and been binging love the content brother 😁
Install isolation valve inside a valve box. Future plumber will love you for it.
How do you feel about the copper crimps rings versus the steel ones they were using? I was under the impression that the copper rings were better...
They are
I used per 2yrs and the fittings rot in the ground and fall apart 8 times in one yr changed it back to reg pipe
I've always wondered what the inside of the average drinking water pipe looks like. How fresh is the water reeeally?
And also how a water leak is found, if it's not visible on the surface like in this clip.
They have 75 -100 year old cast iron pipes in some NE Cities(Boston, Philly, etc)
@@willofdodge1 I guess that gives you "mineral water" through the pipes, quite literally :p
Would probably just have done 3/4PVC again, but with a cut off valve and union. If its somewhere you don't get frost, i'd put the cut off valve closer to surface level. Drop a 2" Cast ion pipe over the lower portion. That will prevent the big rodents from getting to it. Big rodents dont do long tunnels close to the surface, it collapses too easily.
Another great video Roger! What a difference from working in NYC! We wish it was only this easy lol
Chew marks? Mmmmmkay.. It was the water leaking from the crack. I'm sure you thought of the valve after the fact, or they would've DEFINITELY installed one. Chew marks 🤦♂️ oh brother.
I actually recommended the valve before the repair. I was there to observe not work on the pipe. They did not have a valve with them that wasn't SharkBite.
@@RogerWakefield Ahhh, welp a slip by thread into a ball valve off of the pvc would've got them the shut off. Then whatever u want out of the ball valve. All good, just let us know when you find out what Critter that was that chewed up the pvc and caused the leak 🤦♂️
Do you think you'd still need to upsize a pex repair if you were using expansion pex?
Yes I install sprinklers and don’t even touch plumbing but these videos have me in a chokehold. I can’t stop watching
If you have water line breaks in that area you either have a mole infestation or prairie dogs. The later are the worst at chewing on plumbing and also fiber optic lines. Depending on local codes you can't remove them. I would also recommend installing zone shut offs that way the entire community would not be out of water. As far as the work goes if it works.
They have zone valves, they just have to cycle them a few times and find out which ones work.
@@RogerWakefield So preventive maintenance is also a primary factor in this?
I would not use a sharkbite, and I would definitely not use one underground. But they did take that out. But, was that male adapter going into an underground chlorination tank? And if so, wouldn't that mean they reduced the main water line, to the whole park, down to ¾"?
Thread a Corp stop in then run Pex to a mueller pack joint 90. The mueller pack joints don’t restrict flow like shark bites, they are similar in concept but the fitting matches inside diameter to inside diameter. I hate shark bites with a passion, almost as much as you do. Lol
I don't know why these videos are so entertaining.
Me either... It's just plumbing.
Couple things, first that looks more like a small leak that in time with sand slowly eroded the fitting, second, Oklahoma allows crimped pex fittings underground? We had to use ford fittings or rehau system. Don’t get me wrong I like rehau fittings but they are the king of expensive specialty tools. Also in my experience there is only two types of pvc water pipes used underground, those that have broken and those that will break later.
I love consulting work.
As my business grows I want to move into consulting/planning and hire younger folks for turning wrenches
My motto, if you can put a valve somewhere do it. You want to be able to isolate the place you are fixing.
After the first leak I'd be contacting pest control to recommend a ground poison for when the gopher came back. Then got him out to set up preventative maintenance.
I’m still trying to figure out how whatever it was chewed through the pvc. That critter must’ve been thirsty.
Not sure if that’s a rodent problem. Possibly. Possibly soil movement cause stress break and marks are from water eroding. Not sure.
South Florida
Hmmm? I was told not to use PEX fittings underground unless I wrapped them. I wonder why.
I use divining rods to find underground plastic pipes. The drawback is false positives from other underground objects
I don’t know why I like these but it’s cool
I always take my pex up a size when replacing PVC or copper. It's just safe. I also branch from a larger size down to a smaller one, rather than go to a small size then T off of that, for the same reason. I guess The Expert Plumber wasn't asked if they should use a larger diameter pipe?
Critter was thirsty
I would have installed a ball valve too. Get the water back on and it gives you a little more working time to work on the problem and not rushing things. Great mask too Roger.