When I was in Film School, one of my teachers worked on the OG Beast Wars series, and he was less than impressed with this movie; when he saw Cheetor, his reaction was, "THAT'S NOT CHEETOR, HE IS SUPPOSED TO BE YELLOW!"
It took a big steamy 💩 on the original series. I feel in love with Beast Wars when my son was about 5-6. Heck, I started collecting the toys then & still do now!! 😂 I haven't bought the first 💩 character from the movies since the 1st movie & definitely won't be buying these. Rhinox wasn't steel, Cheetor wasn't bigger than a damn car & Primal wasn't the same size as Prime... NOT AS A TRANSMETAL... NOT EVEN AS OPTIMAL OPTIMUS. But, you're spot on!!! Just do me one favor... Say it again... But this time, say it a little louder so they can hear you in the cheap seats.😂😂😂
@@waynewest6160 It giving the characters just new designs/looks doesn't make it terrible, saying it's shit because of different designs and ideas is just fucking stupid lol
In G1, the first time Optimus Prime encounters humans, the Decepticons just pillaged an oil rig in the ocean and set it ablaze, leaving the humans to die. Optimus immediately had the Autobots act as first responders, regardless of the potential repercussions. He even carried humans on his shoulders to safety. In Animated, Optimus Prime acted to fight off a nano-tech monstrosity in the middle of the city. In TF Prime, we don't see Optimus Prime's first encounter, but we saw how much he respected Fowler's authority and position. And we see how he cared for the kids. In most of these examples, he grew to love and engage with human culture and established it as a second home. And the examples I listed are the tip of the Iceberg. I didn't particularly enjoy Rise of the Beasts because of the way Optimus Prime was depicted. He certainly looks the part, and he's voiced by Peter Cullen, but where did his hatred for humans come from? Even in the 2007 Michael Bay film, he looked past human cruelty to see humans for what they were, and what they could become. One of the aspects of Optimus Prime I look for in all Transformers media is in the quote Peter Cullen shared from his brother, "be a real leader... be strong enough to be gentle." That's the kind of Optimus that resonates with me.
@@TheDuck632 Thank you. I also don't quite like the idea of calling him "robo-Jesus," because they really aren't the same. Jesus is God incarnate, perfectly without sin or flaws. His mission in life is entirely different than Prime's. The *only* parallels you can draw between the two is that they both returned from death, and even that is very different in context. The point isn't to convert anyone to Christianity here, but to point out that there really is no reason to compare Optimus Prime to Jesus.
@@LostinMango I bet you can't name even 1 flaw of Jesus. He is the most documented person in antiquity, so it should be easy enough find a flaw, right? Even 1 sin or evil act? Even though nobody over the past 2000 years has ever found a flaw in Jesus? Surely you can break the mold?
@@taqresu5865The most DOCUMENTED person in antiquity??? Other than the bible and the "added" portion of Joesphus' annals (which DON'T count, because those 2 things, y'know, are MADE UP), WHERE ELSE, praytell, are these documented reports. Oh, that's right. There ARE none. The Roman Empire is ONE OF THE MOST DOCUMENTED EMPIRES IN HISTORY, yet there are NO documented reports from the Roman Empire of the dead rising from the grave, the slaughter of HUNDREDS of males aged 2 and under OR a virgin birth EVER happening in the Levant.
I feel like an obvious improvement for Optimus's character would be if Noah hid the key from him out of the belief that he would sacrifice the Earth to save Cybertron, but then when Optimus finds out he makes it clear that that was never even an option for him, and he's horrified that Noah even believed he was capable of that, and it makes him reflect on how much of an asshole he's been acting like. Maybe also have Noah have a standoffish demeanor himself and that's why he can't get a job, and he and Optimus relate on how hard it is to project strength and control for the people who rely on you, and how buckling under that pressure can turn that image into assholeishness that doesn't benefit anyone, and that ties into the team player theme by having both realize that they can't do good by their people by shouldering all their burdens themselves. You know, or something.
So, Counterargument: Optimus doesn't hate humanity, he is actively trying to avoid getting them involved. In his eyes, the Autobots' war with the Decepticons has nothing to do with them, and getting human aid would be dragging an unrelated party into a war.
He literally says that he actively distrusts humans and can't rely on them. I would prefer if Optimus' development was about wanting to protect the autobots and humanity by shouldering the burden on his own and he learns to trust and rely on others, but that wasn't what happened in the movie.
@KwakyWacky Well, yeah, of course he doesn't trust humans. His only experience with them would be what Bumblebee told him about his first arrival. "They were openly hostile to me and immediately trusted the Decepticons" isn't exactly the best first impression. I wouldn't blame Optimus not wanting to risk it after hearing it, even if Bee also told him about Charlie and how good she was to him. And I don't think he outright dislikes humans. He just doesn't trust them, isn't keen on working with them, and doesn't want them to get involved in the Autobot's war.
With ROTB, Paramount made the same mistake as they did for The Last Knight. There were indeed two separate movies as Paramount announced it themselves, the Beast Wars movie and BumbleBee sequel which was described as an Optimus and Bumblebee buddy cop adventure.
I'm glad you adress my one problem with the TF community about the "Optimus shouldn't kill" rule. I swear, they take the thing Peter Cullen's brother said to him (Be stong enought to be gentle) WAY too damn seriously. War has always been apart of transformers since its inception. It's hard to fight in a war, but Optimus is supposed to be like Jesus, be a pacifist and never kill. Fuck that, I want a Prime to throw down when when negotiations fail, when there's little to no choice. And I'm not saying he should be a Murder machine, but I'm tired of how many times he's extended an olive branch, only for his hand to be slapped away and to be spat in the face. The community really just wants literal G1 but in live action where they knock each other down a couple of times like a playground fight and call it a day when times up.
I think people are used to G1, where no one really dies or gets permanently hurt, nobody kills, and every shot, punch and bash is treated at worst like a low powered taser. Many times where someone gets shot and they do actually make a big deal out of it, it feels exaggerate because 2 seconds after that they get right back up with no affect, damage or injury. Since G1 is a kids show, no body dies until the movies, so you gotta protray the war as very PG. Among many other reasons, this is why I think it’s such a suprise when the G1 movie treats war as well…actual war where if you get shot in the chest, your dead, the movie has such a tone shift from “oh dang nabbit, you got me again Optimus prime ol chum! *gets right back up*”
@@nmr7203 if you still came to this conclusion and wrote that reply, you didn't read my comment. Or maybe it's my fault for not making a simple sentence instead of a paragraph. "I want all optimus primes going forward to be like TFP Optimus".
The Optimus prime section hits home for me because one of his defining character traits in the bay films is consistently throwing away methods of rebuilding cybertron because every one of them would be at the cost of humanity. Be it all of them dying or slavery. Even him refusing megatron’s truce in the 3rd film can be seen as Optimus being unwilling to risk the threat to humanity Megatron would pose if he is allowed to survive. (Also megatron’s last line of “who would you be without me prime?” Unintentionally did him in. Optimus would never put his own ego over the lives of innocents. Ever.) Even though it would be another step towards cybertronians going extinct. He knows humanity as a whole doesn’t deserve to pay for his mistakes. Even in age of extinction, when without outside influence he hates and fears humanity, he resolves to stop the seed from being activated without outside influence. What Cade’s speech on the ship does is make it clear to Optimus humanity is still worth protecting after the dust settles.
This movie was too Bay for G1ers, too G1 for Bay fans. It wasnt Bumblebee 2 like some people wanted, and it was a disservice to Beast Wars. It was a movie that tried to play all sides and just ended up a big disappointment.
Not even close, they jumped the gun right away with too many characters & including unicron right away, if anything it should have been small scaled again with Optimus & his group of autobots (Bumblebee, ironhide, wheeljack, arcee, brawn, ratchet) fight against the Decepticon seekers & have Starscream as the main villian with the Decepticons searching the planets for the autobots.
We needed Starscream as the Big Bad of a Bumblebee sequel all while slowly building up to Megatron (with a design similar to his Prime version). Perhaps he could even return from deep space just like he did in Prime.
The issue with Lorenzo is that in his attempts to promote the films, he says a lot of stuff that is mostly never present in the actual movies. For example, while giving interviews about The Last Knight, he hyped the moments of the film which will explore Optimus and Megatron's backstory but in the actual movie, no such scenes are present and instead there is just a one liner by Optimus about the topic. Sometimes he makes conflicting statements about the nature of the movies which causes confusion in the fandom like the whole reboot vs prequel debate.
As much I want to see lorenzo out the door to scrapyard he added the "we were brothers once." But like he and the wachowskis they were "once" and lorenzo didn't give a flying frag about fans wants. I REALLY AVOID GIJOE AND TRANSFORMERS in the same room I know they did in g1 but I would want edc (earth defense command)
What makes Optimus THE Autobot leader is his unnatural optimism and hope that everything will be okay. He will make it a mission to make you smile after a bad day with just as much effort as leading charge to a turning point in the war. I’ll accept any tf content we get but I feel that part of optimus is slowly fading away behind the stoic badass super soldier side of him.
You just described ROTB Optimus. Hes all that, but you also got to remember thats hes lost his way, broken, and probably depressed. And, being beaten up and mocked by a guy with devil powers, being stranded on a alien planet for 7 whole years, and that same devil-powered guy also incapacitated one of his sons really, really didn't help. Also, hes a younger Optimus, who only was leader for probably few centuries, than millennia like other versions have. So, I think he gets a little bit of a pass for his attitude. And, by the end of the film, hes doing better. He and Noah are now real friends, too.
@@FennekinTFmy only problem is that he gave up too easily, or at all. I get he’s a young version but like paperplane said, he couldn’t have gotten the matrix because he can solo a small army. If there’s anyone that can’t lose hope while being stranded on a dirt planet, it’ll be the Robo Jesus. Edit: I know there’s Earthspark and other side content that helps bring exactly what I’m looking for so I’m now realizing this isn’t much of an issue. But he still stands out in a weird way
@@j-sant-animations8105 He didn't really give up too easily, tho. Also, hes not really the "Robo Jesus" we know, yet. Hes been through hell between BB and ROTB and hes probably doubtful of his own abilities, at least a little. And, I think he does have the Matrix; he very well could've gotten it pretty much anywhere before BB. According to context clues, the war seems to have been going on for a few centuries, than millennia as in other continuities, so he probably wasn't even Prime for as long as other Optimuses. And, what does soloing a small army have to do with having the Matrix or not? He still has the extra power/strength that the Matrix grants its bearer, and he has access to all the ancient knowledge of the Primes which he can access at will. Hes simply a less experienced Prime, who probably has some self-doubt that he tries to push-aside and live with (not to mention everything he was feeling in ROTB). Its not like he doesn't want to be better, do better, lead better, etc. He feels like he will eventually grow to become more of the Optimus we've seen in G1 and TFP. I like this version of the character and his arc in the movie.
@@FennekinTFI hope we can agree he needed more setup behind him, I don’t have much to add that the video didn’t already explain. His behavior opened too many questions like why they didn’t use John Cena’s military resources connection. Just another case of uncoordinated movie production
@@j-sant-animations8105 I guess he could've had more set-up. It wouldn't have hurt. But, honestly, I think its completely fine and not completely needed. And, his behavior doesn't really open up too many questions, if I'm being honest. Also, what would've Agent Burns's resources connection do? It wouldn't have added much of anything to the overall plot/story, neither would it have made alot of sense to bring up.
The only thing keeping Optimus' kill count low during the original cartoon was the fact that all of his enemies were toys that were still being sold. One of the first things he does chronologically after being created is gun down a group of generic non-toy decepticons. ua-cam.com/video/OO7ehoOau5g/v-deo.htmlsi=bFrf-r490HDjiB0N&t=287
@@Boltscrap And even then there's no gratuitous violence with that OG Optimus kills, sure target audience/rating and all, but it just felt right for Prime. And it's not like it's impossible in live action. Bumblebee movie shown us Prime gunned down multiple seekers and it never once felt needlessly cruel.
Him killing was never the main issue people had, it was always at weird lines like "give me your face" and them portraying it as a fatality from Mortal Kombat.
Not all "geewunners" praise this exceptional piece of 💩. The only thing RotB did was make Bumblebee an even better movie. As of the other Gay-verse... 💩... sorry... Bay-verse movies, I could probably watch the first one, MAYBE. But, the others are just colossal pieces of💩 that started with 2 hours of toilet humor done as one long dick & fart joke with big explosions & slight intermittent glimpses of CGI robots. I'll stick with my original G1 & Beast Wars. I'll raise my grandkids on the same 💩 I raised my kids on. They won't get sold that damn vinegar. 😂😂😂
I always felt that this Optimus falls into the same problems that Batman from BvS or even Luke from LotJ. I dont find the change of characterization inherently wrong, but with established characters, with years of mithos backing them, you are kinda force to show why they behave the way they do. If this was another movie, with another main robot character, I wouldnt find it as bad if the start they didnt understand human culture but at the end they gain a love for the world and stuff. I do find faults with it when the main character is Optimus Prime, like, The One Guy who would be accepting of all species/genders/age/etc. If you want to show an Optimus that didnt yet become this way, at least show me why. Is like you said, it feels like this Prime comes from a sequel of a movie that was never made.
Body count aside, Optimus in this movie goes back to being a bloodthirsty murder hobo in his attitude in this movie. The number of kills is secondary to the fact that in 07 and Bumblebee, they're necessary combat kills. In all other movies he executes defeated enemies, rips people limb from limb, and taunts, threatens, and torments them and says stuff like "we'll kill them all" and "You're going to die - that is a promise"
they could've made it so Optimus Prime didn't want to involve humans in the conflict not because he doesnt trust them but because he feels bad that he's bringing cybertronian conflicts to earth and he doesn't want to burden the humans or put them in harm's way for his goals
What if it’s a bit of both? Like if you watch the movie it’s not like he hates them he’s just skeptical and he knows that humans can be a danger to them if they run into the wrong kinds of humans like Bumblebee did. It’s a risk he doesn’t want to take for the sake of his autobots that are there because of a decision he made.
@@MintTea2005not like he hates them? He uses xenophobic language, and clearly looks down on Noah, both visually and verbally. that is film shorthand for he hates humans.
@@Spider-Man_234Hate them is a bit of a stretch, he’s resentful of them for nearly killing and mistreating one of his friends when bumblebee didn’t pose any threat to them. Especially after a massive war that killed a ton of his people. And it’s an attitude he’s condemned for and sees the errors of over the course of the movie
I don't understand how anyone can try to make a prequel to TF 07 on anything other than not Earth when you see the Autobot arrive on Earth in that movie! The events of Bumblebee sure since he was already on Earth, but the rest definitely were not.
The two snakes from dotm that you listed are actually one giant Decepticon named Driller!!! I'm angry at this mistake and thus am writing very not nice things to you in this comment D:
I just think overall ROTB was a disappointment and to me wasn’t a proper sequel to Bumblebee. Nor was it the movie I was anticipating for over five years. I’ve lost any hope that the future will hold a transformers film that I can look at and say that I truly enjoyed it through and through. In my opinion I still think that the 2007 film was the best film we ever got and I think I’ll stand on that opinion for ever. In terms of Optimus though. I liked how he was portrayed in the 07 film but if I were to choose my definitive version of Optimus Prime, it would be Transformers Prime. That version of him in my mind is the most purest and true incarnation of the character and what he stands for as a whole.
You know I just simply gave my opinion on why I think the movie was bad. If you thought it was awesome then good for you. I don’t shit on your awful opinion because honestly the movie was terrible and if you liked it then maybe you’re just some dumb little kid or you’re suffering from mild to severe brain damage. Is that better?
@@FennekinTFit was 7/10 at best but still enjoyable One of the biggest reasons why people liked it was because it had the G1 designs and as the video says, Optimus’s whole character arc of disliking humans while his whole shtick of “Freedom is the right of all sentient beings” is not properly explained The terrorcons, aside from Scourge himself, are largely forgettable and, in my opinion, wasted potential with how easily they were taken out. I can go on and on about the movie However, all that being said, the movie did feel like a breath of fresh air for the franchise as a whole (though it being a proper sequel to bumblebee is still really debatable since in many ways, it doesn’t live up to it but in other ways, it gives a lot of things to anticipate, like the decepticons) Don’t say that someone doesn’t have good taste in movies when you refuse to even elaborate on your own claim on why it’s awesome and good when it clearly has a lot of flaws in it
@@watterztrail7870 The Terrorcons are good and not forgettable, tho. And Optimus's arc makes plenty of sense; its good and I like it. The Terrorcons dying is _fine,_ but it would've been cool if they survived, or at least Scourge, Nightbird, and/or Battletrap (alone) did and returned for a sequel. It is a proper sequel to BB, but I'll admit it _could've_ included more from BB; it wouldn't have hurt. But, as is, its completely fine. Everything from BB still happened and feels like it happened; it still feels connected/canon. Some things were simply not mentioned, but are stilll canon/present. And, if you want to see my thoughts, just simply look at my own comment. Technically, I _did_ elaborate. Also, I don't like the movie just cuz of the good designs, but also cuz of the actual characters (bots and humans) themselves, and cuz of the story/plot that is good. The movie is a good 8-9/10. Its definitely a massive step-up from what we've seen in the Bayverse.
@@FennekinTF Optimus throughout all continuities have always been like “Freedom is the right of all sentient beings” with Bay’s Optimus flat out saying that humans are worth protecting as they’re still young and have much to learn, even saying that they deserve to choose for themselves This Optimus is like “one human was good to you bee, but the rest are still bad. I cannot ally with humans.” And Noah messes up and Optimus is like “this is why we shouldn’t ally with humans” without any other scene to elaborate why he’s like that aside from “I miss my planet” even thinking of destroying earth to snuff out Scourge and the others. And no, they are forgettable, i legit forgot the names of the two other terrorcons until you mentioned them. Thats how underutilized they were. We see them once in museum, solid intro to them I’d say. The fight was good. Then was the Peru chase which didn’t have much to go off of other than them tossing each other around. And the final battle, which mostly focused on Mirage, Noah, and Optimus taking down Scourge. The other two only had a few moments of screen time and were quickly killed off without giving them at least one good and final fight scene of them being capable. Instead it was just “I’ve been looking for a fight” *dies* And Bumblebee latching onto Nightbird as she dies to friendly fire. Movie is still really enjoyable and as I stated before, it’s a big breath of fresh air with actually visually pleasing fight scenes for once and the throwback to the OG designs (mostly.) but it’s still flawed in its story and its villains and majority of the critics and at least half of the actual audience agrees with it. Is it horrible? Absolutely not, a lot of people shit on it without valid reason. Is it the greatest? No it’s not. Knightverse wise, it’s still Bumblebee. Entire live action movie wise, TF 2007.
For me, the issiue with optimus isn't killing, but vou brutally he does it in some of the movies, like with the fallen, reaping his spark off for him tô see, shockwave, megatron who wanted a truce. But for me one of the worse is já complaning that primal killed the guy (battletrap) he was about to, like if a war was just a fortnite match, where the focus isn't winning no matter who takes the bad guy out, but taking a kill count for himself, for me this quote was awful
@@FennekinTFUh...Yeah. Caple tries to do what bay does and miserably fails. The bay movies were fun, exciting, and made pretty good box offices. Caple made rotb boring, not worthy of a rewatch, and failed their goal at the box office. Bay is just him. So yes, Caple is a wannabe.
@@Primeproductions45 Um...no...? Caple succeeded. ROTB wasn't boring at all and its definitely worthy of a rewatch. Bay's movies were only fun cuz they were dumb, ROTB is fun cuz its genuinely good. And, ROTB also made enough at the box office, it did well, but not ideal. I rather watch a Caple Transformers movie than a dumb, mess of a movie (continuity? whats that?) that is only good to turn your brain off and eat popcorn.
James Vanderbilt (The Amazing Spider-Man 1 & 2) also wrote a previous draft of Rise of the Beasts, but Joby Harolds script was used the most, and i'm pretty sure Joby recieved sole story credit and screenwriting credit with like 4 other writers
31:54 I think it came from a clip of Peter Cullen at a panel talking about violent Bayverse voice lines that he believed “didnt fit the character” yet had to say anyways - as voice acting goes. Of course, theres the wholesome story of how Cullen crafted the voice of Prime and so how he personally views the character is directly tied to that. After voicing him for so long, its natural, commendable and probably even necessary to trigger the voice. On another end, he gracefully admitted to his blissful ignorance of lore aspects on multiple occasions. Over time, I think he's unknowingly disregarded actions of war and destruction (aka main components of the series) to not tarnish the image of his brother. So this “angelic savior” Prime is skewed and unrealistic and doesnt really exist in media but to Cullen it does, and that's perfectly fine, especially when he emodies it physically.
listening to you make really good critical points about this movie while also mentioning shit like hot motor oil and saying the line "lady, big boobs, and skurj" signals to me that you are a true tf fan lmao, great video :)
To be fair, I am certain that Optimus doesn't *want* Earth to be destroyed if he gets the key. Primal just says he's not willing to risk the key being used to destroy their new home. In any case, I don't think its meant to be interperted as Optimus having the key meaning that it will mean the end for Earth. As for his feelings towards humans, Arcee still mentions in the final movie that if the humans find out about their existence that they will be hunted down.
Its been a while since i watched it, but i didnt get the impression that prime hated humans, more that he just didn't really care about them, which is still bad, but didnt make him totally unsympathetic, and as a more casual transformers fan i wasnt so invested in prime's characterisation that the difference was unacceptable
After seeing all 3 videos I went back to rewatch RotB, and to make the whole racist-Prime more funny, in the italian dub when Bee says "you can't handle the truth", Prime asks him to stop speaking with "a voice that isn't yours". Idk if its an error in the traduction (since Bee fisicaly can't) but I like to see it as "stop with all the human stuff and comunicate normaly"
Interesting how you categorized any kill Optimus did in the Bay movies as 'murders' and anything later as 'kills'. And are very critical of his killing of downed opponents as if it were literally possible for him to take prisoners in any of the films.
@@phantomhd7889 Oh I totally agree! By lowest I meant him being beaten down, scared, angry, ready to give up on humanity. Which was all handled really well
@biggsducklighter6171 oh that makes sense, I thought the Lowest you meant by least developed. I can totally agree with your points. AOE Optimus was at his mist damaged state in terms of mentality
Three things I’d add, the prologue with Optimus monologue after the title drop, perhaps mention an autobot being killed(perhaps later being found at to being a prisoner) by humans, keep the transit scene, and have the hologram execution scene, and then finally have Optimus show Elena a hologram of his home like 07 and include the same characters from the execution, before making a subtle comment about their fate, and then her conversation with Noa would have more weight
I watched it in theaters and remember seeing so many weird writing choices, basic storytelling, and kinda inconsistent dialogue. Not to mention the odd design choices. I just couldn't get into it. Then again, maybe I was biased beforehand.
Scourge is like part Megatron and part Lockdown. I never understood why people liked Lockdown in AOE I mean he looked cool (when he was wearing the mask) and sounded cool but so did Megatron (I am a g1 fan but I stand by Hugo's casting) and Sentinel. Sentinel had far more character to him and though Megatron was not much better then Lockdown he was in all 5 films
I like the movie, but it suffers from the Bay elements that still persist like half-made character arcs, villains with little details and a focus on MacGuffin.
I like all 5 first transformers-2nd revenge of the fallen dark of the moon age extinction the last knight bumblebee movie and rise of beast all 7 movies i like
Prime isn’t a psychopath in the Bay movies He kills the deceptions that must be taken down permanently In his universe, as we can see they have no remorse for innocents If we remember the Chicago incident they had a few mother ships and still managed to siege the city As well, we saw how they don’t die easily, they can take a lot of damage He’s strong enough to be gentle, but gentle doesn’t mean not having an edge Prime’s edge is crossed when you harm innocents or his friends
@@Arrivederchi683 Bayverse Optimus straight up murdered a human in AOE. Don’t talk to me about him being gentle 💀. His entire character arc is basically Optimus losing his way and becoming Nemesis Prime. It’s the only way I can find to justify this incarnation’s atrocities. Worst Optimus Prime to date.
@@dkkanofkash8798 Bro Have some criteria, Prime killed the agent to save Cade Here watch a video in defense of Optimus and try to understand why he is like that
He is tho. Killing's not the issue at all; its necessary. The real issue is the way that hes killing. Hes literally murdering and committing war crimes on his enemies. Thats psychotic behavior right there.
I understand where you're coming from in regards to your points on Optimus's characterization, but I feel i can explain why people find bay prime to be a pyscho and Rotb prime to not be one, and it all comes down to framing. Its the difference between Tim Burton's Batman killing and Zack Snyder's Batman killing. Burton's batman does not revel in the violence and the movies really focus on it. Snyder's Batman is so violent and so merciless and so blatant with his collateral damage that you can't help but be grossed out by it. It doesn't really matter how high prime's body count is movie to movie, it matters how that body count is framed. It will always be way less jarring to see BB Prime shoot eleven guys during a fire fight, than it is to watch bay Prime rip one guy's face in half with two hooks. theres a huge difference between shooting some seekers, and ripping Shockwave's head off and pulling his spine out, while cybertronian blood explodes out like a geyser. It's just too violent, its just too unheroic, Optimus should not be more visibly brutal than Megatron. why is it wrong to shoot Wheeljack in the back of the head while he bags for his life, but okay to do the same to Sentinel? Are the autobots the good guys or aren't they? the autobots kill humans, the autobots are brutal, the autobots order around the human military, so in what way are they better than the decepticon's? the decepticons doing it first, shouldn't make it okay for the autobots to do the same. It will always be less jarring to watch prime brutally murder a character like Scourge than it will be to watch Optimus shoot Sentinel in the back of the head after Sentinel was already defeated and begging for life. Bay Prime is too violent and too merciless for too little reason. I've seen people say "Oh, Sentinel killed Iron hide", and did Prime even like ironhide? when did Prime ever have any moments with ironhide or any Autobot for that matter, where any kind of close relationship was established with any of them. because nobody likes anybody in the bay movies. nobody's close friends with anyone, none of the autobots seem to like each other, everyone in those movies is screaming and yelling and fighting with each other. Megatron ripped Jazz in half and Optimus didn't even think of killing megatron with the allspark, but now Ironhide is too far? Who cares? We don't know any of these characters, nor do we know why any of them dying would be a big deal to Prime, because we only know him as team leader in the bay films. It seems like theres a never ending group of new autobots who show up in every movie, and it seems like Optimus willingly left Cybertron to find the Allspark, so it's not like he's trapped on Earth. The movie gives prime no reason to care about earth, no reason to care about humans and no reason to care about his own men, because none of them have memorable personalities and they're all replaceable. why should Prime care he's been betrayed by humans, the humans all suck and none of them even like each other. Why does Optimus care about how humans treat him, he's not even particularly nice to any of them. He joined the american military and let autobots assist in fighting american enemies so he evidently doesn't seem to view human life as that valuable anyway. In Rotb the film very smartly makes it clear, this team of Autobots is stretched thin and small. optimus clearly wants to go home, and doesn't know how, nor does he really know anything about the human race, other than its not a good idea to let any of them know they exist. They were forced off of cybertron and Earth was the only safe planet they could make any kind of base on. And unlike in the bay films, Prime is very clearly depicted as patriarch of this group of autobots, and unlike a nothing character like Ironhide or Jazz, the audience is already primed to care about bumblebee because he's bumblebee. So Scourge killing him actually matters to both the audience and to Prime. In Robt, there is no never ending supply of random autobots, theres only the few in hiding on Earth, being actively hunted by the deceptions. Any autobot death in Rotb matters in a way it doesn't in the bay films. and unlike Megatron or Sentinel, Scourge is a villain with some actual pathos. He's maniacal, he's dangerous, he takes active pleasure in killing, he jokes, he brags, he's cruel. and unlike Megatron or Sentinel has no ideology to back himself up, he just genuinely enjoys destroying entire planets for Unicron's benefit. There's a huge difference between killing Scourge and killing Megatron and Sentinel. Sentinel was beaten, he was done, his plan failed, he no longer posed a threat to anyone. Scourge was still fighting, still a treat and was a herald of the cosmic world eating alien satan monster. Optimus is way more justified in killing Scourge because we actually care about what he's done, who he's killed, and what he'll do if left alive. Sentinel meanwhile has only killed a guy we have no reason to care about more than anyone else, and unlike Scourge, seems to at least think he's morally correct in trying to save his planet. he doesn't deserve forgiveness, but he doesn't deserve to be shot in the back of the head while he begs for his life either. Why does Megatron deserve to die after saving prime's life? just make him leave. tell him and his army to find some other planet to conquer. theres nothing on Earth Megatron would want anymore and he offers Prime a truce, which is all prime should want. megatron and Sentinel basically pose no threat to anyone any more especially now that their armires have been decimated, optimus should have just taken everyone back to cybertron and put a truce in with megatron to leave each other alone. instead he doesn't and two more movies worth of war happens. There's just a big difference between rotb Prime, who is more violent than I would like, but at least seems to like his crew, has a genuine conversation with the human characters and really grows as a person, and bay prime who hates everyone and everything and screams "I'll kill you" more than he says anything else. There's a big difference between brutally killing Scourge, Herald of Unicron, merciless killer and murderer of bumblebee, and Bay prime who violently rips every enemy apart, kills humans with reckless abandon, seems to hate everyone equally, has no real attachment to any of his men, nor they to him and shoots unarmed combatants in the back of the head and than kills Megatron rather than just take a truce and let the killing end.
The difference is that the Bay films are darker in tone, of course Optimus is going to be violent for a reason. Bumblebee and ROTB are reboots and lighter in tone. Okey people are not okey with Prime killing Decepticons and a hypocrite of a human agent who wanted to kill alians but made an alliance with Lockdown, but it’s okey for ROTB Optimus to kill Tericons in a violent way.
I mixed on one hand the action was great but the humans were annoying and i didnt like the absence of the deceptions and the story is another mcguffin but the story isnt the worse and the character atent that badddd so overall 7/10 but i think i wanted a different direction but idk
The worst part for me, was the human interactions/plot for them wasnt fleshed out. They throw these characters at you one with 2 relatable things, family and trying to work but oh wait we cant forget his non existent military background. And for the girl same exact thing but even LESS build for her. Both are just involved to be the human interacting with a robot thats all. Mirage had cool concepts but nothing more, he literally used his holos only TWICE, noah used the hand blaster only ONCE. He threatened to use it on the key than absolutely ignored it after the fact to have this sad radio moment from peru to ny like ohh brother, is this a fucking disney movie. Im guessing they forgot quality over quantity, just because we have these robots and characters it'll hash itself out with no reinforcement of anything meaningful or relatable. Movie was undercooked all around, its disappointing. Used assets of music and time setting for those consumers who need just that and no thinking or lore to enjoy it 10/10 movie.
@@Zygomatic_Bolt taught us many great lessons, healed people with illness, brought people back from the dead, died for our sins, came back from the grave and conquered death, giving us a chance to live in heaven for all eternity with him. Doesn't sound like an "asshole" to me
My thoughts on it I feel like he was kinda a ass but not really because most times he dose try to care about his feelings in a good way witch makes since but I feel like it's the story and the writing who made this character wrong Micheal bay and transformers prime with in these shows you can see just him feeling brave to go to war in earth with the despecions I'm wondering if he try to compare the humans as the despecions or not witch makes since to me
The only thing I vehemently disagree with is Bay Prime being a psycho. He’s just a brutal badass who takes faces, gives speeches, and protects humans till given a reason not to. Of course I want more G1 dad Prime. But I will not stand for this slander.
Yeah the only time I’d say he was psychotic was when he executed a beaten and defenseless Sentinel Prime and when he killed Megatron after the guy saved Prime’s life and was not a threat at all. Optimus just had a murderous impulse that he really wanted to act on. I wish DotM got the original ending that was planned
Its not slander though. Ripping off someone’s face, shooting an old man begging for mercy, decapitating your former friend after he just helped you. Your standards for brutality must be extremely high, because that is what a psychopath does. He even kills humans if it’s convenient after previously stating in the movie that he swore not to kill any. Bayverse is Michael Bay’s idea of a badass: a sadistic kratos-esque super soldier with no mercy towards anyone, even his own allies.
@@Spider-Man_234The old man in question ravaged an entire city and was gonna stab Optimus The “someone” was gonna bring the Sun to earth and kill everyone The former brother laid waste to their own planet and literally stabbed his brother in the back The human he killed killed his friends
@@Spider-Man_234 cmon now, you seriously didn't think Megatron really wanted truce. He literally said 2 mins before "This is my planet" to Sentinal. And he didn't help Optimus. He just couldn't stand Sentinal to be at the top. Only time I will agree about Optimus being too much is against The Fallen.
Trukk vs monke
It's pronounced "Trukk."
@Ms.Ronloodle my mistake
nice reference to tfa cancelled episode/season
Optimum Pride VS Less-advanced Lockdown
It wasn't even about the monkey, poor animals ended up as plot devices 💀
When I was in Film School, one of my teachers worked on the OG Beast Wars series, and he was less than impressed with this movie; when he saw Cheetor, his reaction was, "THAT'S NOT CHEETOR, HE IS SUPPOSED TO BE YELLOW!"
It took a big steamy 💩 on the original series. I feel in love with Beast Wars when my son was about 5-6. Heck, I started collecting the toys then & still do now!! 😂
I haven't bought the first 💩 character from the movies since the 1st movie & definitely won't be buying these. Rhinox wasn't steel, Cheetor wasn't bigger than a damn car & Primal wasn't the same size as Prime... NOT AS A TRANSMETAL... NOT EVEN AS OPTIMAL OPTIMUS.
But, you're spot on!!! Just do me one favor...
Say it again...
But this time, say it a little louder so they can hear you in the cheap seats.😂😂😂
Sorry, your teacher is WHAT
@@tiekymmcnamara6269 he was a 3d artist for mainframe
Your teacher is color blind.
@@waynewest6160 It giving the characters just new designs/looks doesn't make it terrible, saying it's shit because of different designs and ideas is just fucking stupid lol
Skybound sums Optimus up with one quote, "Make no mistake, Soundwave, i desire peace. But I am no fool."
I just read the first Skybound comic, and I loved that quote to much
In G1, the first time Optimus Prime encounters humans, the Decepticons just pillaged an oil rig in the ocean and set it ablaze, leaving the humans to die. Optimus immediately had the Autobots act as first responders, regardless of the potential repercussions. He even carried humans on his shoulders to safety. In Animated, Optimus Prime acted to fight off a nano-tech monstrosity in the middle of the city. In TF Prime, we don't see Optimus Prime's first encounter, but we saw how much he respected Fowler's authority and position. And we see how he cared for the kids. In most of these examples, he grew to love and engage with human culture and established it as a second home. And the examples I listed are the tip of the Iceberg.
I didn't particularly enjoy Rise of the Beasts because of the way Optimus Prime was depicted. He certainly looks the part, and he's voiced by Peter Cullen, but where did his hatred for humans come from? Even in the 2007 Michael Bay film, he looked past human cruelty to see humans for what they were, and what they could become.
One of the aspects of Optimus Prime I look for in all Transformers media is in the quote Peter Cullen shared from his brother, "be a real leader... be strong enough to be gentle." That's the kind of Optimus that resonates with me.
I love the quote from Cullen's brother and coming from a Marine is something special. I think you summed up Prime perfectly.
@@TheDuck632 Thank you.
I also don't quite like the idea of calling him "robo-Jesus," because they really aren't the same. Jesus is God incarnate, perfectly without sin or flaws. His mission in life is entirely different than Prime's. The *only* parallels you can draw between the two is that they both returned from death, and even that is very different in context. The point isn't to convert anyone to Christianity here, but to point out that there really is no reason to compare Optimus Prime to Jesus.
@@taqresu5865Jesus is without flaws okay christian
@@LostinMango I bet you can't name even 1 flaw of Jesus. He is the most documented person in antiquity, so it should be easy enough find a flaw, right? Even 1 sin or evil act?
Even though nobody over the past 2000 years has ever found a flaw in Jesus? Surely you can break the mold?
@@taqresu5865The most DOCUMENTED person in antiquity??? Other than the bible and the "added" portion of Joesphus' annals (which DON'T count, because those 2 things, y'know, are MADE UP), WHERE ELSE, praytell, are these documented reports. Oh, that's right. There ARE none.
The Roman Empire is ONE OF THE MOST DOCUMENTED EMPIRES IN HISTORY, yet there are NO documented reports from the Roman Empire of the dead rising from the grave, the slaughter of HUNDREDS of males aged 2 and under OR a virgin birth EVER happening in the Levant.
Cannot wait to watch this retrospective on Rise of The Breasts again, now in *PARTS.* 😎
You should probably read what you said there.
I like when the breast rises
the fuck is wrong with you?
@@Alina87967 man said what he said.
I was sure id seen this video before. So what happened?? Why did he reuplaod the video??
I feel like an obvious improvement for Optimus's character would be if Noah hid the key from him out of the belief that he would sacrifice the Earth to save Cybertron, but then when Optimus finds out he makes it clear that that was never even an option for him, and he's horrified that Noah even believed he was capable of that, and it makes him reflect on how much of an asshole he's been acting like.
Maybe also have Noah have a standoffish demeanor himself and that's why he can't get a job, and he and Optimus relate on how hard it is to project strength and control for the people who rely on you, and how buckling under that pressure can turn that image into assholeishness that doesn't benefit anyone, and that ties into the team player theme by having both realize that they can't do good by their people by shouldering all their burdens themselves.
You know, or something.
I like that, it's very similar (kinda) to the Hobbit where Bilbo hid the arkenstone from Thorin.
So, Counterargument:
Optimus doesn't hate humanity, he is actively trying to avoid getting them involved. In his eyes, the Autobots' war with the Decepticons has nothing to do with them, and getting human aid would be dragging an unrelated party into a war.
Should have showed that in the movie
He literally says that he actively distrusts humans and can't rely on them. I would prefer if Optimus' development was about wanting to protect the autobots and humanity by shouldering the burden on his own and he learns to trust and rely on others, but that wasn't what happened in the movie.
@KwakyWacky Well, yeah, of course he doesn't trust humans. His only experience with them would be what Bumblebee told him about his first arrival.
"They were openly hostile to me and immediately trusted the Decepticons" isn't exactly the best first impression. I wouldn't blame Optimus not wanting to risk it after hearing it, even if Bee also told him about Charlie and how good she was to him.
And I don't think he outright dislikes humans. He just doesn't trust them, isn't keen on working with them, and doesn't want them to get involved in the Autobot's war.
@@pedroportela6476 I'd imagine bee would also tell him about the humans who helped.
Hoping we get a standalone Rat-a-tat-tat movie one day. It would be amazing to see all his twists and turns brought to life on the big screen.
“It’s twistin’ and turnin’ time”
-Rat-a-tat-tat
And I’d be especially excited to see his iconic lisp adapted in live action
"Here we are.... Fight us now."
With ROTB, Paramount made the same mistake as they did for The Last Knight. There were indeed two separate movies as Paramount announced it themselves, the Beast Wars movie and BumbleBee sequel which was described as an Optimus and Bumblebee buddy cop adventure.
I'm glad you adress my one problem with the TF community about the "Optimus shouldn't kill" rule. I swear, they take the thing Peter Cullen's brother said to him (Be stong enought to be gentle) WAY too damn seriously. War has always been apart of transformers since its inception. It's hard to fight in a war, but Optimus is supposed to be like Jesus, be a pacifist and never kill. Fuck that, I want a Prime to throw down when when negotiations fail, when there's little to no choice. And I'm not saying he should be a Murder machine, but I'm tired of how many times he's extended an olive branch, only for his hand to be slapped away and to be spat in the face. The community really just wants literal G1 but in live action where they knock each other down a couple of times like a playground fight and call it a day when times up.
I think people are used to G1, where no one really dies or gets permanently hurt, nobody kills, and every shot, punch and bash is treated at worst like a low powered taser. Many times where someone gets shot and they do actually make a big deal out of it, it feels exaggerate because 2 seconds after that they get right back up with no affect, damage or injury.
Since G1 is a kids show, no body dies until the movies, so you gotta protray the war as very PG. Among many other reasons, this is why I think it’s such a suprise when the G1 movie treats war as well…actual war where if you get shot in the chest, your dead, the movie has such a tone shift from “oh dang nabbit, you got me again Optimus prime ol chum! *gets right back up*”
@@anotherrandomguy8871 i kinda understand why the g1 movie was hated at his time, imagine seeing all your favorite characters gunned down
There'd a difference between killing and showing Optimus revealing in the fighting.
@@nmr7203 if you still came to this conclusion and wrote that reply, you didn't read my comment.
Or maybe it's my fault for not making a simple sentence instead of a paragraph. "I want all optimus primes going forward to be like TFP Optimus".
The Optimus prime section hits home for me because one of his defining character traits in the bay films is consistently throwing away methods of rebuilding cybertron because every one of them would be at the cost of humanity. Be it all of them dying or slavery. Even him refusing megatron’s truce in the 3rd film can be seen as Optimus being unwilling to risk the threat to humanity Megatron would pose if he is allowed to survive. (Also megatron’s last line of “who would you be without me prime?” Unintentionally did him in. Optimus would never put his own ego over the lives of innocents. Ever.) Even though it would be another step towards cybertronians going extinct.
He knows humanity as a whole doesn’t deserve to pay for his mistakes. Even in age of extinction, when without outside influence he hates and fears humanity, he resolves to stop the seed from being activated without outside influence. What Cade’s speech on the ship does is make it clear to Optimus humanity is still worth protecting after the dust settles.
This movie was too Bay for G1ers, too G1 for Bay fans. It wasnt Bumblebee 2 like some people wanted, and it was a disservice to Beast Wars. It was a movie that tried to play all sides and just ended up a big disappointment.
I think that Rotb was not a worthy sequel to Bumblebee at all.
It’s kinda like super paper Mario for me (terrible sequel, decent game)
Not even close, they jumped the gun right away with too many characters & including unicron right away, if anything it should have been small scaled again with Optimus & his group of autobots (Bumblebee, ironhide, wheeljack, arcee, brawn, ratchet) fight against the Decepticon seekers & have Starscream as the main villian with the Decepticons searching the planets for the autobots.
@@steel749 starscream as the main antagonist, would be peak
We needed Starscream as the Big Bad of a Bumblebee sequel all while slowly building up to Megatron (with a design similar to his Prime version). Perhaps he could even return from deep space just like he did in Prime.
Fr
The issue with Lorenzo is that in his attempts to promote the films, he says a lot of stuff that is mostly never present in the actual movies. For example, while giving interviews about The Last Knight, he hyped the moments of the film which will explore Optimus and Megatron's backstory but in the actual movie, no such scenes are present and instead there is just a one liner by Optimus about the topic. Sometimes he makes conflicting statements about the nature of the movies which causes confusion in the fandom like the whole reboot vs prequel debate.
As much I want to see lorenzo out the door to scrapyard he added the "we were brothers once." But like he and the wachowskis they were "once" and lorenzo didn't give a flying frag about fans wants. I REALLY AVOID GIJOE AND TRANSFORMERS in the same room I know they did in g1 but I would want edc (earth defense command)
I guess ROTB Optimus keeps calling Bee as "Bee" as reference to "B127" and hasn't decided that "Bumblebee" is a cool name for the dude.
What makes Optimus THE Autobot leader is his unnatural optimism and hope that everything will be okay. He will make it a mission to make you smile after a bad day with just as much effort as leading charge to a turning point in the war. I’ll accept any tf content we get but I feel that part of optimus is slowly fading away behind the stoic badass super soldier side of him.
You just described ROTB Optimus. Hes all that, but you also got to remember thats hes lost his way, broken, and probably depressed. And, being beaten up and mocked by a guy with devil powers, being stranded on a alien planet for 7 whole years, and that same devil-powered guy also incapacitated one of his sons really, really didn't help. Also, hes a younger Optimus, who only was leader for probably few centuries, than millennia like other versions have. So, I think he gets a little bit of a pass for his attitude. And, by the end of the film, hes doing better. He and Noah are now real friends, too.
@@FennekinTFmy only problem is that he gave up too easily, or at all. I get he’s a young version but like paperplane said, he couldn’t have gotten the matrix because he can solo a small army. If there’s anyone that can’t lose hope while being stranded on a dirt planet, it’ll be the Robo Jesus.
Edit: I know there’s Earthspark and other side content that helps bring exactly what I’m looking for so I’m now realizing this isn’t much of an issue. But he still stands out in a weird way
@@j-sant-animations8105 He didn't really give up too easily, tho. Also, hes not really the "Robo Jesus" we know, yet. Hes been through hell between BB and ROTB and hes probably doubtful of his own abilities, at least a little. And, I think he does have the Matrix; he very well could've gotten it pretty much anywhere before BB. According to context clues, the war seems to have been going on for a few centuries, than millennia as in other continuities, so he probably wasn't even Prime for as long as other Optimuses. And, what does soloing a small army have to do with having the Matrix or not? He still has the extra power/strength that the Matrix grants its bearer, and he has access to all the ancient knowledge of the Primes which he can access at will.
Hes simply a less experienced Prime, who probably has some self-doubt that he tries to push-aside and live with (not to mention everything he was feeling in ROTB). Its not like he doesn't want to be better, do better, lead better, etc. He feels like he will eventually grow to become more of the Optimus we've seen in G1 and TFP. I like this version of the character and his arc in the movie.
@@FennekinTFI hope we can agree he needed more setup behind him, I don’t have much to add that the video didn’t already explain. His behavior opened too many questions like why they didn’t use John Cena’s military resources connection. Just another case of uncoordinated movie production
@@j-sant-animations8105 I guess he could've had more set-up. It wouldn't have hurt. But, honestly, I think its completely fine and not completely needed. And, his behavior doesn't really open up too many questions, if I'm being honest. Also, what would've Agent Burns's resources connection do? It wouldn't have added much of anything to the overall plot/story, neither would it have made alot of sense to bring up.
Ironic we went from Megatron ripping Jazz in half to Optimus doing the same.
Did you already make this video? I could have sworn I’ve seen this already
Re upload due to copyright
I was about to say this. im reading something about a "youtube prison"?
Late Night Gaming?! Didn’t know you were a TF fan!
omg LateNightHalo hi!
I think a big thing for Optimus Prime killing is that… they are literally at war. That’s the crux of the franchise lmao
True
The only thing keeping Optimus' kill count low during the original cartoon was the fact that all of his enemies were toys that were still being sold. One of the first things he does chronologically after being created is gun down a group of generic non-toy decepticons. ua-cam.com/video/OO7ehoOau5g/v-deo.htmlsi=bFrf-r490HDjiB0N&t=287
But does he need to be so brutal there's a line between eliminating threats and brutality.
@@Boltscrap And even then there's no gratuitous violence with that OG Optimus kills, sure target audience/rating and all, but it just felt right for Prime.
And it's not like it's impossible in live action. Bumblebee movie shown us Prime gunned down multiple seekers and it never once felt needlessly cruel.
Him killing was never the main issue people had, it was always at weird lines like "give me your face" and them portraying it as a fatality from Mortal Kombat.
The fact that geewunners hate bayverse but praise this movie is fucking hilarious 🤣🤣
Not all "geewunners" praise this exceptional piece of 💩. The only thing RotB did was make Bumblebee an even better movie. As of the other Gay-verse... 💩... sorry... Bay-verse movies, I could probably watch the first one, MAYBE. But, the others are just colossal pieces of💩 that started with 2 hours of toilet humor done as one long dick & fart joke with big explosions & slight intermittent glimpses of CGI robots.
I'll stick with my original G1 & Beast Wars. I'll raise my grandkids on the same 💩 I raised my kids on. They won't get sold that damn vinegar. 😂😂😂
Probably because of the designs alone.
I hate em all
@@AbysmalRandomn3ss your feelings are valid
No I’m so happy I literally was checking every week to see if the original version was released from UA-cam prison. Thank you for this :,D
PEAK IS BACK!! So glad you were able to grace us with it again!
The beginning of the return of one of my favourite Transformers videos ever on UA-cam.
I always felt that this Optimus falls into the same problems that Batman from BvS or even Luke from LotJ. I dont find the change of characterization inherently wrong, but with established characters, with years of mithos backing them, you are kinda force to show why they behave the way they do. If this was another movie, with another main robot character, I wouldnt find it as bad if the start they didnt understand human culture but at the end they gain a love for the world and stuff. I do find faults with it when the main character is Optimus Prime, like, The One Guy who would be accepting of all species/genders/age/etc. If you want to show an Optimus that didnt yet become this way, at least show me why. Is like you said, it feels like this Prime comes from a sequel of a movie that was never made.
Body count aside, Optimus in this movie goes back to being a bloodthirsty murder hobo in his attitude in this movie.
The number of kills is secondary to the fact that in 07 and Bumblebee, they're necessary combat kills. In all other movies he executes defeated enemies, rips people limb from limb, and taunts, threatens, and torments them and says stuff like "we'll kill them all" and "You're going to die - that is a promise"
they could've made it so Optimus Prime didn't want to involve humans in the conflict not because he doesnt trust them but because he feels bad that he's bringing cybertronian conflicts to earth and he doesn't want to burden the humans or put them in harm's way for his goals
What if it’s a bit of both? Like if you watch the movie it’s not like he hates them he’s just skeptical and he knows that humans can be a danger to them if they run into the wrong kinds of humans like Bumblebee did. It’s a risk he doesn’t want to take for the sake of his autobots that are there because of a decision he made.
@@MintTea2005not like he hates them? He uses xenophobic language, and clearly looks down on Noah, both visually and verbally. that is film shorthand for he hates humans.
@@Spider-Man_234Hate them is a bit of a stretch, he’s resentful of them for nearly killing and mistreating one of his friends when bumblebee didn’t pose any threat to them. Especially after a massive war that killed a ton of his people. And it’s an attitude he’s condemned for and sees the errors of over the course of the movie
YES ITS BACK! AND THE AMAZING INTRO IS BACK TOOO!!!!
SO HAPPY
Say whattt
Famous UA-camr Paperplane posted ?? That’s crazy
“BABE WAKE UP NEW PAPERPLANE VIDEO!!!” type shit.
19:12 thats like saying the wolfenstein games are prequels to the COD modern warfare games, simply because of the year. 😂
To be honest I only loved the mirage moments and that’s it
I don't understand how anyone can try to make a prequel to TF 07 on anything other than not Earth when you see the Autobot arrive on Earth in that movie! The events of Bumblebee sure since he was already on Earth, but the rest definitely were not.
The two snakes from dotm that you listed are actually one giant Decepticon named Driller!!! I'm angry at this mistake and thus am writing very not nice things to you in this comment D:
I just think overall ROTB was a disappointment and to me wasn’t a proper sequel to Bumblebee. Nor was it the movie I was anticipating for over five years. I’ve lost any hope that the future will hold a transformers film that I can look at and say that I truly enjoyed it through and through.
In my opinion I still think that the 2007 film was the best film we ever got and I think I’ll stand on that opinion for ever. In terms of Optimus though. I liked how he was portrayed in the 07 film but if I were to choose my definitive version of Optimus Prime, it would be Transformers Prime.
That version of him in my mind is the most purest and true incarnation of the character and what he stands for as a whole.
It was tho. It was awesome and a proper sequel to BB. You probably don't have good taste in movies
You know I just simply gave my opinion on why I think the movie was bad. If you thought it was awesome then good for you. I don’t shit on your awful opinion because honestly the movie was terrible and if you liked it then maybe you’re just some dumb little kid or you’re suffering from mild to severe brain damage. Is that better?
@@FennekinTFit was 7/10 at best but still enjoyable
One of the biggest reasons why people liked it was because it had the G1 designs and as the video says, Optimus’s whole character arc of disliking humans while his whole shtick of “Freedom is the right of all sentient beings” is not properly explained
The terrorcons, aside from Scourge himself, are largely forgettable and, in my opinion, wasted potential with how easily they were taken out.
I can go on and on about the movie
However, all that being said, the movie did feel like a breath of fresh air for the franchise as a whole (though it being a proper sequel to bumblebee is still really debatable since in many ways, it doesn’t live up to it but in other ways, it gives a lot of things to anticipate, like the decepticons)
Don’t say that someone doesn’t have good taste in movies when you refuse to even elaborate on your own claim on why it’s awesome and good when it clearly has a lot of flaws in it
@@watterztrail7870 The Terrorcons are good and not forgettable, tho. And Optimus's arc makes plenty of sense; its good and I like it. The Terrorcons dying is _fine,_ but it would've been cool if they survived, or at least Scourge, Nightbird, and/or Battletrap (alone) did and returned for a sequel. It is a proper sequel to BB, but I'll admit it _could've_ included more from BB; it wouldn't have hurt. But, as is, its completely fine. Everything from BB still happened and feels like it happened; it still feels connected/canon. Some things were simply not mentioned, but are stilll canon/present. And, if you want to see my thoughts, just simply look at my own comment. Technically, I _did_ elaborate.
Also, I don't like the movie just cuz of the good designs, but also cuz of the actual characters (bots and humans) themselves, and cuz of the story/plot that is good. The movie is a good 8-9/10. Its definitely a massive step-up from what we've seen in the Bayverse.
@@FennekinTF Optimus throughout all continuities have always been like “Freedom is the right of all sentient beings” with Bay’s Optimus flat out saying that humans are worth protecting as they’re still young and have much to learn, even saying that they deserve to choose for themselves
This Optimus is like “one human was good to you bee, but the rest are still bad. I cannot ally with humans.” And Noah messes up and Optimus is like “this is why we shouldn’t ally with humans” without any other scene to elaborate why he’s like that aside from “I miss my planet” even thinking of destroying earth to snuff out Scourge and the others.
And no, they are forgettable, i legit forgot the names of the two other terrorcons until you mentioned them. Thats how underutilized they were. We see them once in museum, solid intro to them I’d say. The fight was good. Then was the Peru chase which didn’t have much to go off of other than them tossing each other around. And the final battle, which mostly focused on Mirage, Noah, and Optimus taking down Scourge. The other two only had a few moments of screen time and were quickly killed off without giving them at least one good and final fight scene of them being capable. Instead it was just “I’ve been looking for a fight” *dies*
And Bumblebee latching onto Nightbird as she dies to friendly fire.
Movie is still really enjoyable and as I stated before, it’s a big breath of fresh air with actually visually pleasing fight scenes for once and the throwback to the OG designs (mostly.) but it’s still flawed in its story and its villains and majority of the critics and at least half of the actual audience agrees with it. Is it horrible? Absolutely not, a lot of people shit on it without valid reason. Is it the greatest? No it’s not. Knightverse wise, it’s still Bumblebee. Entire live action movie wise, TF 2007.
I will be calling TLK “Transformers: The Last Jedi” from now on
Came out same year too
For me, the issiue with optimus isn't killing, but vou brutally he does it in some of the movies, like with the fallen, reaping his spark off for him tô see, shockwave, megatron who wanted a truce. But for me one of the worse is já complaning that primal killed the guy (battletrap) he was about to, like if a war was just a fortnite match, where the focus isn't winning no matter who takes the bad guy out, but taking a kill count for himself, for me this quote was awful
How many writers does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
Five but all they do is act like they know what they’re doing.
I like it when Optimus kills, just not when he remorselessly and cruelly murders them in gruesome ways.
i liked the Bay movies.
I like the Knight/Caple movies alot better
Caple Jr is basically Michael Bay wannabe. ROTB is basically Bayverse movie without Michael Bay
@@ukaszmozejko9984 Um....? No...? Its not. Hes not. ROTB was better. Caple is better; he did a good job
@@FennekinTFUh...Yeah. Caple tries to do what bay does and miserably fails. The bay movies were fun, exciting, and made pretty good box offices. Caple made rotb boring, not worthy of a rewatch, and failed their goal at the box office. Bay is just him. So yes, Caple is a wannabe.
@@Primeproductions45 Um...no...? Caple succeeded. ROTB wasn't boring at all and its definitely worthy of a rewatch. Bay's movies were only fun cuz they were dumb, ROTB is fun cuz its genuinely good. And, ROTB also made enough at the box office, it did well, but not ideal. I rather watch a Caple Transformers movie than a dumb, mess of a movie (continuity? whats that?) that is only good to turn your brain off and eat popcorn.
James Vanderbilt (The Amazing Spider-Man 1 & 2) also wrote a previous draft of Rise of the Beasts, but Joby Harolds script was used the most, and i'm pretty sure Joby recieved sole story credit and screenwriting credit with like 4 other writers
31:54 I think it came from a clip of Peter Cullen at a panel talking about violent Bayverse voice lines that he believed “didnt fit the character” yet had to say anyways - as voice acting goes.
Of course, theres the wholesome story of how Cullen crafted the voice of Prime and so how he personally views the character is directly tied to that. After voicing him for so long, its natural, commendable and probably even necessary to trigger the voice.
On another end, he gracefully admitted to his blissful ignorance of lore aspects on multiple occasions. Over time, I think he's unknowingly disregarded actions of war and destruction (aka main components of the series) to not tarnish the image of his brother. So this “angelic savior” Prime is skewed and unrealistic and doesnt really exist in media but to Cullen it does, and that's perfectly fine, especially when he emodies it physically.
listening to you make really good critical points about this movie while also mentioning shit like hot motor oil and saying the line "lady, big boobs, and skurj" signals to me that you are a true tf fan lmao, great video :)
28:00 respectfullty optimus prime has always been extremely violent he literally tries to rip megatrons eyes out in the first episode of the g1 show 😭
buster says he loved it .... or he's really hungry
good stuff man
To be fair, I am certain that Optimus doesn't *want* Earth to be destroyed if he gets the key. Primal just says he's not willing to risk the key being used to destroy their new home. In any case, I don't think its meant to be interperted as Optimus having the key meaning that it will mean the end for Earth. As for his feelings towards humans, Arcee still mentions in the final movie that if the humans find out about their existence that they will be hunted down.
Its been a while since i watched it, but i didnt get the impression that prime hated humans, more that he just didn't really care about them, which is still bad, but didnt make him totally unsympathetic, and as a more casual transformers fan i wasnt so invested in prime's characterisation that the difference was unacceptable
After seeing all 3 videos I went back to rewatch RotB, and to make the whole racist-Prime more funny, in the italian dub when Bee says "you can't handle the truth", Prime asks him to stop speaking with "a voice that isn't yours". Idk if its an error in the traduction (since Bee fisicaly can't) but I like to see it as "stop with all the human stuff and comunicate normaly"
Interesting how you categorized any kill Optimus did in the Bay movies as 'murders' and anything later as 'kills'. And are very critical of his killing of downed opponents as if it were literally possible for him to take prisoners in any of the films.
Lets hope this one stays up!
13:24 EXCUSE ME THE DIRECTOR HAD THE QUESTION! NOT THE OTHER GUY! Sheeesh! And i thought I would be considered rude.
Don’t forget the tens or hundreds of thousands that he killed by abandoning Chicago to make a point
Say what you want about Micheal Bay but at least he knows how to make a movie entertaining and rise of the best was definitely not entertaining
As someone who watched the original video of this, I’m honestly confused.
Easily my least favorite Optimus ever, even at his lowest in AOE he managed to not be racist.
AOE Optimus was not at his lowest he was at his highest
@phantomhd7889 How so?
@@biggsducklighter6171 his character development was above any other movies
@@phantomhd7889 Oh I totally agree! By lowest I meant him being beaten down, scared, angry, ready to give up on humanity. Which was all handled really well
@biggsducklighter6171 oh that makes sense, I thought the Lowest you meant by least developed. I can totally agree with your points. AOE Optimus was at his mist damaged state in terms of mentality
Honestly I hope you make more vids like this! ❤
This movie felt so underwhelming for me
*Part 2 down*
AWWW, i just finished the first part!
It's back up!
43:49
The dog watching this video 👀
Three things I’d add, the prologue with Optimus monologue after the title drop, perhaps mention an autobot being killed(perhaps later being found at to being a prisoner) by humans, keep the transit scene, and have the hologram execution scene, and then finally have Optimus show Elena a hologram of his home like 07 and include the same characters from the execution, before making a subtle comment about their fate, and then her conversation with Noa would have more weight
Return of the King
I was looking for the video the other day i thought i was crazy and made it up
I watched it in theaters and remember seeing so many weird writing choices, basic storytelling, and kinda inconsistent dialogue. Not to mention the odd design choices. I just couldn't get into it. Then again, maybe I was biased beforehand.
Cant wait for these vids to get deleted into five parts, and then those get deleted again in a members only video
Love the video so far, but if I may respectfully request that you take it easy with the Jesus joke bro. 34:18
What's the music at the start?
Okay, yeah. I thought I was going insane. I didn't like the movie, but on reddit the positivity was basically enforced.
Can you please do Earthspark?
I love when people show Psychopath Prime .... it's so dumb how they ruined his character.
Absolutely digging the pick for music from Bart's level in hit & run.
Why are all these letters rotting that is the real question? First S then F and now B?!
Holy hell, just start!! --Me at the four minute mark of this video
Scourge is like part Megatron and part Lockdown.
I never understood why people liked Lockdown in AOE I mean he looked cool (when he was wearing the mask) and sounded cool but so did Megatron (I am a g1 fan but I stand by Hugo's casting) and Sentinel. Sentinel had far more character to him and though Megatron was not much better then Lockdown he was in all 5 films
0:50 ngl Scourge sounds way cooler like this
I like the movie, but it suffers from the Bay elements that still persist like half-made character arcs, villains with little details and a focus on MacGuffin.
Of all things that has to persist, it had to be those ones.
Wait, didn’t this video come out already? 😅 or did I just time travel
I can’t look at scourge the same knowing the tiny dude from pixels voices him
I am so glad this is back.
I'd say age of extinction partially gets it right. His disillusionment with the humans tracks; not so mcuh is treatment of the dinobots
What's with the reupload?
fr
The old one was taken down because of copyright so he had to reupload it in segments.
The full version faced copyright issues, hence why Paper is reloading this in parts.
I'm kinda sad that unicron never transformed..they really rushed him in this one.
the movie felt like more of an introduction to his presence than his grand moment, I'm sure he'll be back
Rise of the beast is very dumb and is heavily flawed but I still love it
much like the franchise itself, and before anyone has a fit, no I'm not mocking it for this reason, I'm just being blunt and brutally honest.
Nah, its not dumb. Its awesome!
I like all 5 first transformers-2nd revenge of the fallen dark of the moon age extinction the last knight bumblebee movie and rise of beast all 7 movies i like
Bro that Jesus comment was cap
WE'RE SO BACK
Amazing intro and I agree with pretty much all of your points.
Whats the music at the start? It sounds really good lol
Prime isn’t a psychopath in the Bay movies
He kills the deceptions that must be taken down permanently
In his universe, as we can see they have no remorse for innocents
If we remember the Chicago incident they had a few mother ships and still managed to siege the city
As well, we saw how they don’t die easily, they can take a lot of damage
He’s strong enough to be gentle, but gentle doesn’t mean not having an edge
Prime’s edge is crossed when you harm innocents or his friends
Bayverse Optimus Prime is not gentle whatsoever 💀
@@dkkanofkash8798 With humans and his friends he is, decepticons are other thing
@@Arrivederchi683 Bayverse Optimus straight up murdered a human in AOE. Don’t talk to me about him being gentle 💀. His entire character arc is basically Optimus losing his way and becoming Nemesis Prime. It’s the only way I can find to justify this incarnation’s atrocities. Worst Optimus Prime to date.
@@dkkanofkash8798 Bro
Have some criteria, Prime killed the agent to save Cade
Here watch a video in defense of Optimus and try to understand why he is like that
He is tho. Killing's not the issue at all; its necessary. The real issue is the way that hes killing. Hes literally murdering and committing war crimes on his enemies. Thats psychotic behavior right there.
Do you have a copy of Hot Motor Oil vol. 2 you could share? Asking for a friend.
I understand where you're coming from in regards to your points on Optimus's characterization, but I feel i can explain why people find bay prime to be a pyscho and Rotb prime to not be one, and it all comes down to framing.
Its the difference between Tim Burton's Batman killing and Zack Snyder's Batman killing. Burton's batman does not revel in the violence and the movies really focus on it. Snyder's Batman is so violent and so merciless and so blatant with his collateral damage that you can't help but be grossed out by it.
It doesn't really matter how high prime's body count is movie to movie, it matters how that body count is framed.
It will always be way less jarring to see BB Prime shoot eleven guys during a fire fight, than it is to watch bay Prime rip one guy's face in half with two hooks. theres a huge difference between shooting some seekers, and ripping Shockwave's head off and pulling his spine out, while cybertronian blood explodes out like a geyser. It's just too violent, its just too unheroic, Optimus should not be more visibly brutal than Megatron. why is it wrong to shoot Wheeljack in the back of the head while he bags for his life, but okay to do the same to Sentinel? Are the autobots the good guys or aren't they? the autobots kill humans, the autobots are brutal, the autobots order around the human military, so in what way are they better than the decepticon's? the decepticons doing it first, shouldn't make it okay for the autobots to do the same.
It will always be less jarring to watch prime brutally murder a character like Scourge than it will be to watch Optimus shoot Sentinel in the back of the head after Sentinel was already defeated and begging for life.
Bay Prime is too violent and too merciless for too little reason. I've seen people say "Oh, Sentinel killed Iron hide", and did Prime even like ironhide? when did Prime ever have any moments with ironhide or any Autobot for that matter, where any kind of close relationship was established with any of them. because nobody likes anybody in the bay movies. nobody's close friends with anyone, none of the autobots seem to like each other, everyone in those movies is screaming and yelling and fighting with each other. Megatron ripped Jazz in half and Optimus didn't even think of killing megatron with the allspark, but now Ironhide is too far? Who cares? We don't know any of these characters, nor do we know why any of them dying would be a big deal to Prime, because we only know him as team leader in the bay films. It seems like theres a never ending group of new autobots who show up in every movie, and it seems like Optimus willingly left Cybertron to find the Allspark, so it's not like he's trapped on Earth. The movie gives prime no reason to care about earth, no reason to care about humans and no reason to care about his own men, because none of them have memorable personalities and they're all replaceable. why should Prime care he's been betrayed by humans, the humans all suck and none of them even like each other. Why does Optimus care about how humans treat him, he's not even particularly nice to any of them. He joined the american military and let autobots assist in fighting american enemies so he evidently doesn't seem to view human life as that valuable anyway.
In Rotb the film very smartly makes it clear, this team of Autobots is stretched thin and small. optimus clearly wants to go home, and doesn't know how, nor does he really know anything about the human race, other than its not a good idea to let any of them know they exist. They were forced off of cybertron and Earth was the only safe planet they could make any kind of base on. And unlike in the bay films, Prime is very clearly depicted as patriarch of this group of autobots, and unlike a nothing character like Ironhide or Jazz, the audience is already primed to care about bumblebee because he's bumblebee. So Scourge killing him actually matters to both the audience and to Prime. In Robt, there is no never ending supply of random autobots, theres only the few in hiding on Earth, being actively hunted by the deceptions. Any autobot death in Rotb matters in a way it doesn't in the bay films. and unlike Megatron or Sentinel, Scourge is a villain with some actual pathos. He's maniacal, he's dangerous, he takes active pleasure in killing, he jokes, he brags, he's cruel. and unlike Megatron or Sentinel has no ideology to back himself up, he just genuinely enjoys destroying entire planets for Unicron's benefit.
There's a huge difference between killing Scourge and killing Megatron and Sentinel. Sentinel was beaten, he was done, his plan failed, he no longer posed a threat to anyone. Scourge was still fighting, still a treat and was a herald of the cosmic world eating alien satan monster. Optimus is way more justified in killing Scourge because we actually care about what he's done, who he's killed, and what he'll do if left alive. Sentinel meanwhile has only killed a guy we have no reason to care about more than anyone else, and unlike Scourge, seems to at least think he's morally correct in trying to save his planet. he doesn't deserve forgiveness, but he doesn't deserve to be shot in the back of the head while he begs for his life either. Why does Megatron deserve to die after saving prime's life? just make him leave. tell him and his army to find some other planet to conquer. theres nothing on Earth Megatron would want anymore and he offers Prime a truce, which is all prime should want. megatron and Sentinel basically pose no threat to anyone any more especially now that their armires have been decimated, optimus should have just taken everyone back to cybertron and put a truce in with megatron to leave each other alone. instead he doesn't and two more movies worth of war happens.
There's just a big difference between rotb Prime, who is more violent than I would like, but at least seems to like his crew, has a genuine conversation with the human characters and really grows as a person, and bay prime who hates everyone and everything and screams "I'll kill you" more than he says anything else. There's a big difference between brutally killing Scourge, Herald of Unicron, merciless killer and murderer of bumblebee, and Bay prime who violently rips every enemy apart, kills humans with reckless abandon, seems to hate everyone equally, has no real attachment to any of his men, nor they to him and shoots unarmed combatants in the back of the head and than kills Megatron rather than just take a truce and let the killing end.
The difference is that the
Bay films are darker in tone, of course Optimus is going to be violent for a reason. Bumblebee and ROTB are reboots and lighter in tone.
Okey people are not okey with Prime killing Decepticons and a hypocrite of a human agent who wanted to kill alians but made an alliance with Lockdown, but it’s okey for ROTB Optimus to kill Tericons in a violent way.
I mixed on one hand the action was great but the humans were annoying and i didnt like the absence of the deceptions and the story is another mcguffin but the story isnt the worse and the character atent that badddd so overall 7/10 but i think i wanted a different direction but idk
Optimus Prime is Superman imo not in every way but in the most important ones that's why I love Animated because they turn him into a superhero
The worst part for me, was the human interactions/plot for them wasnt fleshed out. They throw these characters at you one with 2 relatable things, family and trying to work but oh wait we cant forget his non existent military background. And for the girl same exact thing but even LESS build for her. Both are just involved to be the human interacting with a robot thats all. Mirage had cool concepts but nothing more, he literally used his holos only TWICE, noah used the hand blaster only ONCE. He threatened to use it on the key than absolutely ignored it after the fact to have this sad radio moment from peru to ny like ohh brother, is this a fucking disney movie. Im guessing they forgot quality over quantity, just because we have these robots and characters it'll hash itself out with no reinforcement of anything meaningful or relatable. Movie was undercooked all around, its disappointing. Used assets of music and time setting for those consumers who need just that and no thinking or lore to enjoy it 10/10 movie.
34:19 how was Jesus an "asshole"?
What did Jesus do? 😭✝️
@@Zygomatic_Bolt taught us many great lessons, healed people with illness, brought people back from the dead, died for our sins, came back from the grave and conquered death, giving us a chance to live in heaven for all eternity with him. Doesn't sound like an "asshole" to me
My thoughts on it I feel like he was kinda a ass but not really because most times he dose try to care about his feelings in a good way witch makes since but I feel like it's the story and the writing who made this character wrong Micheal bay and transformers prime with in these shows you can see just him feeling brave to go to war in earth with the despecions I'm wondering if he try to compare the humans as the despecions or not witch makes since to me
40:20
hey i brought this up once
HOLY CRAP HE DROPPED A NEW ONE
I mean… I still _like_ RotB… but yeah… it’s flawed.. I’ll admit.
The only thing I vehemently disagree with is Bay Prime being a psycho. He’s just a brutal badass who takes faces, gives speeches, and protects humans till given a reason not to.
Of course I want more G1 dad Prime. But I will not stand for this slander.
Yeah the only time I’d say he was psychotic was when he executed a beaten and defenseless Sentinel Prime and when he killed Megatron after the guy saved Prime’s life and was not a threat at all. Optimus just had a murderous impulse that he really wanted to act on.
I wish DotM got the original ending that was planned
You cannot deny that tearing off The Fallen’s face was absolutely unnecessary bloodthirst. That is straight up something a villain does lol
Its not slander though. Ripping off someone’s face, shooting an old man begging for mercy, decapitating your former friend after he just helped you. Your standards for brutality must be extremely high, because that is what a psychopath does. He even kills humans if it’s convenient after previously stating in the movie that he swore not to kill any. Bayverse is Michael Bay’s idea of a badass: a sadistic kratos-esque super soldier with no mercy towards anyone, even his own allies.
@@Spider-Man_234The old man in question ravaged an entire city and was gonna stab Optimus
The “someone” was gonna bring the Sun to earth and kill everyone
The former brother laid waste to their own planet and literally stabbed his brother in the back
The human he killed killed his friends
@@Spider-Man_234 cmon now, you seriously didn't think Megatron really wanted truce. He literally said 2 mins before "This is my planet" to Sentinal. And he didn't help Optimus. He just couldn't stand Sentinal to be at the top. Only time I will agree about Optimus being too much is against The Fallen.
11:09Hands Off Fat Man with the Glasses! 13:12 13:23 13:34A 0% for the Fat Producer with the Glasses LORENZO! 15:47Yes! 16:06 16:12