The Most Common EV Charging Misconception
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- Опубліковано 26 чер 2018
- We need to talk about private home charging more than we do. 99% of our charging infrastructure already exists, and this is something that absolutely needs to be communicated and not enough people are doing. Here is my attempt.
In short, no matter if it's a Chevy Volt, Bolt EV, Nissan Leaf, or any of Tesla's cars, you will most likely be charging it at home. It's the cheapest and easiest way to do it--creating your own charging infrastructure.
This is the video from EE:
• 5 Signs Electric Cars ...
Some of my other EV videos:
Chevy Bolt EV Summer Range Test:
• Chevy Bolt EV Summer R...
Bolt EV Winter range test (Chicago)
• Chevy Bolt EV: Winter ...
My experience installing the charging station in a condo building:
• Video
The Wind Powered Car:
• The Wind-Powered Car: ...
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/ technologyconnections - Наука та технологія
I do agree with much of this. However, there is absolutely still a need for more public charging spaces. Being that I have driven EVs since 2011 I do wind up with unusual circumstances a few times a year where I need to use a public charger. One of the barriers to this infrastructure development is that not enough people need the chargers on a regular basis, which affects the income of the operator, thus creating a situation where the do not want to invest in new stations. So the number of public chargers you need compared with the number of EVs in that area is much wider ratio than gas pumps per gasoline vehicle. That's because most EV drivers don't need the public chargers on a regular basis, but gas drivers rely on gas stations 100% of the time. However, in order to get more people comfortable driving electric vehicles, we need to have a much better charging infrastructure in most of the country. Because of the conundrum I think the only way to solve it in the short term is for some government money to be spent on some basic charging infrastructure.
Oh I agree, public charging is important. But I think we need to do a better job of communicating what home charging allows. I worry that too many people simply can't imagine the possibilities with home charging, and with a 200 mile EV the need to rely on public charging becomes less and less frequent. Which as you point out creates a unique problem for those that attempt to operate public charging options.
This is a complicated paradigm shift that only those who have driven EVs really understand. Especially from monitoring the comments, it's becoming increasingly clear that many people simply cannot contextualize what it's like to have 200 miles of range (or perhaps it would be better to use the analogy of 5 to 10 gallons of gasoline) delivered overnight to your vehicle while you sleep each and every day.
As I hopefully communicated in a sensible way (if not here's goes!), suburban and rural folks with 200 amp service and garages/parking areas near their house have it easy to install charging stations at home. They're set. Urban places and apartment complexes are where the real challenge lies, and while asking these folks to rely on DC fast charging for daily needs might be feasible, I think it's a far wiser investment to upgrade the infrastructure in these areas to allow for feasible, "slow" daily charging.
Technology Connections if you haven't, check out Ubitricity in the UK. They are replacing street lighting with LED and adding charging capabilities to the lamp post. There's a Fully Charged episode on it if you're interested.
This is but one of the ways that this can be tackled, and I have no doubt that some bright sparks will come up with equally clever ways to integrate it into our cities.
The 8-Bit Guy The UK Government has done just that... Making legislation to require street charging for parking spaces and commercial buildings aswell.. Power lines are already there.... Just need to pop up the charge points
Then there needs to be a lobby for EV drivers that pushes for public operators to take over until private businesses DO see a need to go competetive. Most cities have parking lots or garages anyway... combine it with charging options for at least a significant number of the lots and it should work out just fine. It's at least more likely to work thatn counting on employers investing into large numbers of "overworkhour" chargers...
government sneezed all over good ideas like this. they like to see us struggle
I'm an electrician in Indiana. I've wired at least a couple dozen charge stations in customer's garages in the past few years. Many opt for the outlet only and some purchase the super charger or whatever they call it. It's the same cost to install it. If you pay over $200 for the install, you might be getting gouged unless your charger is far from the panel. Most panels are in the garage.
Freeyourmind I want one but most houses in Indianapolis I don’t see it being a thing fast up north I see a lot of EV cars tho
@@orieosheba4567
Oh yeah. That's where the rich people live.
Also from Indiana: I paid $450 because the panel is in my basement and because the electrician recommended the +$75 "extra good" outlet, so yeah, I got gouged a little. People should ask what it would cost for a 240-volt appliance outlet and get a quote before saying it's for an EV. In fact, quote Freeyourmind here first to tell THEM what it should cost.
@2009G8Gxp Hence I do my own electrical work, and welding, and electronics, and car repairs, and boat repairs (engine and hull)... You get the picture. ;-)
2009G8Gxp I just put in a 14-50 material 381$
I recently watched CPGreys video, and my mind was blown when he used RV parks and there 50amp RV hook ups to charge his ev quickly, while on a road trip, where there were no quick chargers, blew my mind
Cloudous They charged the car overnight, no? One may still need a DC inverter to charge the car faster.
With the 322km on a night's charge at home figure in mind, it seems like people in rural settings might actually have it easier than people in cities.
I live in London, and like a lot of people in London, I live in a block of flats. I couldn't practically run a wire from my flat to the relatively distant location where my hypothetical car would live, because I would need to get permission from my absentee landlord, who would need permission from the fascisticly uncompromising building managers, who might even also need permission from the council.
Since I am not willing to put in all that effort without already owning a vehicle to charge with the infrastructure, and I am not willing to buy an EV and risk not being able to charge it, it just doesn't make sense for me to even try to own one.
People in rural areas on the other hand, often have things like garages and driveways, so can put infrastructure in entirely on their own terms.
As a city dweller, I don't want even more 4-5 person capacity vehicles (containing an average of 2 people each). For cities to work, we need to get rid of the idea that every individual should own a vehicle, and focus on reliable, electric, widespread public transport options.
Cars can be reserved for disabled people who genuinely need them, car sharing schemes, and taxi drivers. A reduced number of cars automatically leads to public transport improvements, because more public transit can run on normal roads without being held up constantly.
An often overlooked public transport option is electric trolley buses. The only charging infrastructure they need can be in the form of cables hanging from existing buildings and lamp posts. Since a modern electric trolley bus can have a large battery inside, they only need overhead power for a fraction of their route. In addition, much like normal buses, they can change sections of their routes without needing to build extra infrastructure. Finally, they are much better at hills than trams or trains!
Not disagreeing, but trolleybuses have their problems. The infrastructure is expensive to build an maintain, in part because there are very few people qualified to work on them, especially in cities where trolleybuses aren't common. Also you can't run express services with them because trolleybuses can't easily pass each other. So building new trolleybus lines only makes sense when extending an existing system
What you forget is that cars especially ICE are a major tax income for the government and if we reduce the number of cars and go all electric the government will find another way to get their money. Do you really think they going to skip on that?
I'm amazed how many people entirely miss the paradigm shift that is being discussed. The point is that EVs are fundamentally different in terms of how you utilize them. And everyone agrees that there are challenges and there are applications where they won't work, but my Jetta won't move a queen size bed, either. So there's that argument down the tube. I fear for people with the attitude of "because it's this way now it will be this way forever."
Oh, you can totally move a queen size bed with a Jetta. Not saying it's the most practical way, but ratchet straps make a lot of things possible.
That sounds like me buying ikea furniture and mounting it to my nissan versa.
You could attach a trailer behind your car and move the bed. Can I buy an EV and take a snowmobile and an ATV with me far away from the nearest charging station?
I can take diesel with me and drive to very desolate areas where EV's can't go today even on a sunny wind free summer day and they definitively will not be able to get there in the middle of the winter with snow and -40C/F.
I live in northern Sweden not that far from the arctic circle and there are not that many charging stations here. That makes an EV pretty useless for many of us, just like a car that runs on natural gas (or whatever the English word for it is). I wish there will be some better EV's in the near future.
Well, in a sense, a good explanation as to why EVs are so popular or commonly viewed as the only alternative to gasoline cars might just be for this exact reason : they don't convey a paradigm shift for most people. In my opinion, this is at best unefficient and at worst dangerous because two cars (EVs or not) per household is not a sustainable option. We need to find good ways to share those cars in neighbourhoods and invest for better collective transport systems.
@@benoitmarchand5154 But because buses and trains are scary to car companies, they'll never get off the ground again in the US. The fact that we still use cars and not, like, bikes at least is just icing on a shit-cake
I think the biggest problem with EVs is urban, not rural: apartment dwellers don't necessarily have an easy way to plug them in. The ideal EV owner at this point is a suburbanite homeowner with a garage (which might well have a 220v outlet in it already), and not everyone has one.
Yes, exactly what I've come to wonder. What do people who have to park outside of a garage or outside an alley have to do, have personal chargers installed onto the streetcurb? Run chargers from inside the house? It's impractical for now.
Have you tried watching the whole video?
He did well with his condo--it's not much of an answer for renters. Eventually the market for buildings and garages that come with EV charging points will pull in supply, but it's further off.
Matt, I think that smurwolf7 comment was more about the fact that in the video, I specifically mentioned how apartment dwellers and urban areas with on-street parking are the most difficult ones to address. Your comment reads as though you are simply restating content of the video as if I hadn't said it.
I was in a situation where if I wanted to get an EV I would have had to rely on charging it away from home. The neighborhood I was in was built in the late 1970's and the parking situation is unique. The house was a town house and as my place was at the end of a row of buildings, the builders were not able to put the parking lot in front of every unit.
My parking spaces were offset by about six spaces. Then first five spaces were for the first five units coming form the far end. Then it repeated for the second parking space for each unit. If I were to have installed a charging point at my closer space I would have had to dig a trench across four front yards, get under their walk ways and then install the pole on the sidewalk between the front yards and the parking spaces. It would not have been practical.
If my employer would have installed charging stations at work it may have been enough for me to consider getting an EV. But that would have limited my weekends to local things or relying on other people to go out of town since my car would have used up about 40 miles of its charge.
An EV isn't for everyone. It needs to suit your driving habits, vehicular needs and your specific location (for charging). As he says in the video, his parents live in a decidedly rural area and they have an EV. Their situation allows for them to be able to have an EV (charging). Mine, at my town house did not.
Another concern about EV infrastructure is that existing distribution network might not be able to cope with the demand. Your house may have a 230-volt 63A single-phase connection (15kVA), but the local distribution transformer is only 200kVA and supplies 50 houses, since the distribution company designed it assuming that coincident maximum demand won't exceed 4kVA per household. Now imagine a winter night when everyone arrives home, plugs in their EV to charge, turns on their electric heating, and starts cooking dinner...
At least in New Zealand we have the infrastructure already to reduce peak time loading. Most homes here have their hot water heating on controlled supply - you pay a lower rate per unit in return for allowing the distribution company to turn it off during peak times via ripple control. Therefore, you can connect all the EV chargers to the controlled circuit.
I was just about the make the same point. You can't push an unlimited amounts of amps though a copper wire. Not without the wire heating up to dangerous levels.
That's the POINT.
This is one aspect of things that isn't being considered. One estimate that I read some time back suggested that if a massive shift to electric vehicles were to take place in the US, that the capacity of the grid would need to DOUBLE!
@@Roy_Tellason I read once that 10% of cars being EVs would mean twice the load on the electrical grid.
"Hal, have you charged my car overnight?"
"I'm sorry, Dave. The grid was struggling with demand. In two days there should be a window. Do you want me to reserve that time?"
"Hal, I need my car right now. I need to get to work! Charge it now, just enough for the commute!"
"I'm sorry, Dave. I can't do that."
@@centralintelligenceagency9003 This is a mind-bogglingly stupid take. People charge their cars off-peak at night. There is plenty of capacity. Do you think right now people coordinate when to turn on their aircon?
RFID charging identification IS GENIUS.
manofwill2468 i live in europe and here there are networks of charge pole providers. 95% of public 11kw, 22kw or 50kw chargers are on these networks and they are consolidated into one big network that works together. So i have 1 rfid tag i ordered free on the internet, an use this to charge at 95% (there are apps that show you where these are, there are a lot) of public chargers and get a monthly bill that’s automatically payed using my cc.
I'd prefer a personal id, not a vehicle id. So you could charge a borrowed car and pay for it yourself, instead of billing it to the car owner's account, for example. Or situations like shared cars in families, rented cars, etc.
And so easy to exploit. Just replace the existing with a controllable RFID chip and voila, now you're charging for free aka on someone elses bill
@@OperationDarkside definitely, and RFID implants have been a thing for years so its not even like its huge equipment, some phones can even do it. Thats my biggest issue with EVs all round, its simply not securable because it falls into the area where its standardized hardware with all the weakpoints of software. (basically the old adage of "if a hacker gets physical access, you have already lost" except now said hacker can literally have equipment predesigned to be a plug & play solution for every vehicle.)
Aged like fine wine.
Here’s a better metaphor:
Imagine having a phone that runs on a gasoline motor. Next, imagine that everytime you want to charge your phone, you had to got to a gas station to properly supply it with fuel. That is our current system with cars.
But imagine a battery powered phone that you can simply be charged at home overnight, so that you will only be draining it when you actually use it in the day.
John / DDFusion So you want to travel 400 miles away. You drive 200 miles, charge for 8 hours, drive the other 200, charge for another 8 hours so you can drive around at your destination. Charge for another 8 hours so you have enough battery to drive halfway home, get halfway home, charge for another 8 hours, drive the last 200 miles home & then put it on charge when you get home. Ridiculous.
Thumbobby How often do you drive more than 200 miles in a day? If it’s infrequently, then consider if being able to drive for 400 miles non-stop is really that important to you. Keep in mind that 200 miles on the freeway is about 3 hours, so a break every 3 hours for 30 minutes at a DC fast charger is not overly burdensome.
More importantly, no one is suggesting that DC fast charging not be built out along highways. Only that attempts to build out DC infrastructure as a replacement to gas stations, instead of ubiquitous Level 2, is misguided and of limited benefit.
I would rather put gas in my phone once every 10 days than charge it every night like I do now.
Bitches don't care about anything but convenience. That's why you pay more for less.
Wasteful and possibly more polluted at it best!
and I'd like to add that even with normal cars, on long trips, we stop for more than 30 minutes while refueling because toilet & food :-)
I like how you take complex issues and explain them in a very simple, easy to understand way. Once you own an EV. You wonder why anyone would want an ICE car. Great work. Thanks.
A level 1 charger at my house is WAY more than my needs for commuting to and from work. I don’t understand why people don’t get this. Yes, it’s slow, but the 120v EVSE that comes with most EVs is WAY more than most people’s needs.
I get something like 7 miles per hour of level 1 charge, that’s really significant. With my base model 2013 leaf and it’s 24kwh battery (and a 1.4kw EVSE), I charge 6% of my battery per hour just with a standard outdoor wall outlet at my apartment with a 100’ extension cord (you need a 14 gauge 3 conductor cord at 100’, this is extremely important).
Yeah, it’s slow, but I can charge literally 20 hours a day, and at work they don’t even charge me to plug in!
I always get in my car at 100% charge. Every time. This isn’t tough to do.
Also, side note, your video on level 1 charging convinced me to buy this car. Thank you. I couldn’t be happier. $8500 well spent.
soupisgdfood I bet you live in an area with a short commute.
Think about a person living in a rural area. They commute for 1 hour 2 times a day. 22 hours left. They work for 8 hours. 16 hours left. That is not enough time to charge the car.
Also, think of the power bill! Talk about expensive with a capital E!
Your car only cost $8500? That's neat. :)
Hi Hu, please stop asking us to "think of the power bill". We have. I assure you. It's almost always cheaper than buying fuel.
In any case, soupisgoodfood is simply telling us their situation, and isn't trying to paint the picture that Level 1 meets everyone's needs.
Hi Hu 7 cents per kilowatt hour at night charging, and if you didn’t notice by the part that says I charge at work, I charge at work, too. For free.
It costs significantly less than gas. I paid $3.80 per day in gas with my previous car, I now pay $0.41 per day in electricity if I don’t charge at work. That’s almost 10x less than gas in my previous car. It honestly costs about as much as running my AC.
If I commuted longer distance, I would install a level 2 EVSE and charge at 6.6kw, or about 30 miles per hour. More than enough for my previous rural commute of 60 miles one way, with only 2 hours of charging needed (4 hours for the whole day).
Caphits, older used base model (no telematics, 24kwh/75 mile range battery, 3.3kw max charge speed) leafs are cheaper than you might think. Mine had 22k miles on it at that price too.
7:35 - lol when has a company ever stopped charging for something once they made cost? The $5 would still be there after the fact
Bridges often used to be funded this way. Private company builds a bridge for a city, charges tolls until they get paid the promised amount for the bridge, then "sells" the bridge to the city for a dollar.
Yeah, people don't get it that every morning you have a "full tank of gas" with electrics. A lot of EV owners get frustrated with Gas cars because going to the gas station becomes a hassle.
nabeelr Sure is nice to drive more than 200 miles without having to wait 8 hours to drive the next 200 miles though.
God, you just don't know what DC fast charging is, do you?
Good lord. You charge at home for the days you _don't_ travel more than 200 miles. Then, on the days you _do_ travel 200 miles, you stop at a *DC Fast Charging Station* located along the interstate at regular intervals, and after a short stop there, you can go another 200 miles. Do you simply not understand this or are you being combative for no reason? The number of DC Fast Charging Stations that will be required with an all-electric vehicle fleet is a small fraction of the number of fueling stations we have today because they will only be required when traveling long distances.
Technology Connections No reason? Your comment about not knowing what DC is was both insinuating and a tad insulting. I know it can be frustrating to deal with Johnny Q. Public, but being the bigger man (even when it's undeserved) goes a long way toward professionalism.
My wife's been driving our tesla for about a month now.... I asked her just last night if she missed the gas station... she said she hadn't even thought about it.
Missed opportunity to have "Sex Dungeon" listed on your breaker panel when you cut to it.
🤣 That would've been funny as hell.
I live in a rural area in the Netherlands and I even built my own charging point of 3 phase 15A at 230V (based on OpenEVSE) for a Renault Zoe EV. Because I built and installed it in my garage myself it cost less than $300. Every household in this country standard has a 3 x 25A 230V connection to the electric grid. So even when charging my car at home I can still use the electric oven, water cooker and induction cooking plate simultaneously without a problem. Your video is spot on: in most western countries we already have the necessary infrastructure. The nearest town to my east is 15 km (10 mile) and in the other direction even less. Even a trip to Amsterdam, about 320 km round trip in my case, I do not need to change along the way but even if I had to there are enough chargers along the way. For longer distances I would have used the train anyway. In, not all, but most countries/states no extra infrastructure will be needed. Great video, thanks!
I'd LOVE to see Jason reply to your video. You two are so awesome and inspiring here on youtube. Although I followed Engineering explained first, your channel has quickly been one of my favorites (as EE is too)
100% Spot on! Very well said sir!
I have an EV and have been saying exactly this for the last 5 years
I was in an unusual situation until recently. I lived in an apartment and my family were 420 miles away. I would have needed a fast charging station until battery technology improved. Now I’m not that far away, I can feasibly get a new EV when my current vehicle dies or when it becomes more economical to get one.
Your channel is one the best discoveries I recently made. Very consistent and interesting topics!
Great video as always. The more I what old videos the more I like this channel. Maybe the most underrated channel on YT in this niche.
I love the video. This is one of those videos that will be found in 20 years and be used as ahistorical video of the primative out look we had in the past.
I strongly agree with this video. Just recently at my college, I saw some parking spots which have EV chargers installed. I think it's about time those "EV reserved" parking spots are starting to appear more frequently.
Love your channel. The videos are always clear and very well thought out. This one is no exception. I also am a huge fan of Engineering Explained. It would be really cool if you and Jason did a collab on electric cars - I'd be all over that! Also I appreciate hearing the other side of the story from an EV owner!
I like to think of myself as a reasonably bright person: college degree, watched lots of your videos (INCLUDING the range tests), etc. I have never in my life considered that an EV would largely remove the necessity to go to a public place to "refuel". I was under the blanket assumption that "if gas car needs gas station, EV needs Electric Station!". DUH. Thank you for bringing this up!!!
I've been using just 20 amp 110 volt outlet for my Leaf for years. Overnight is plenty of time for a nearly full charge on a 24 kWh battery.
And if just 20% of the houses in your area started each using 20A to charge their EVs all night, the electrical system would melt down. The city power stations can't cope with the extra load....
@@Chris-hx3om uh no it wont. The electric infrastructure of every country has to deal with peak demand already and its a known problem and is not just related to EVs. It would only be a problem when your 20% all bought EVs today and plugged them all in at the same time. And guess what, after that happens the people who regulate electric infrastructure would now know that and be able to call up more power stations to turn on during that time. It's the exact same problem like people all turning on their air conditioning during summer, and when was the last time your neighborhood lost power because of that?
@@Chris-hx3om you think 20 amps of 120 volts (i.e. 10 amps of service voltage) extra each hour AT NIGHT is going to melt down the grid? What do you think peak demand means? Hint - the peak is not at night. Because people don't run HVAC much at night. The electric companies are more than okay with people charging their cars at night -- it does not require extra capacity and it brings in more revenue which helps cover fixed costs.
Agreed. And if your daily RT commute is short enough, you can use the mobile charger that comes with most EVs that plug into a standard 20 amp 120VAC outlet (adds about 4 miles of range for every hour of charge). Also, Shell is slowly adding charge pedestals to their gas stations; more of this in Europe, but it's happening in the U.S. too. And in Europe, there's a company that's retrofitting street lights with EV outlets. You then use a special cable that has a built-in "cellphone" that allows you to be billed for the electricity you used. So if you must do on-street parking where you live, this is an answer.
Thank you for this video! Found this first, stopped, watched the EE video, then came back here. I just got a Model 3 just over 3 weeks ago and live in a very rural area. I put a HPWC on the outside of my home for $800 all in ($500 for charger, $300 for install, my install was very simple). With over 300 miles of range, even right after getting it I don't feel any range anxiety and I don't even have to charge it every night. The points you made here are the same ones I thought of during the EE video.
You are one smart cookie. Love your videos as usual. Keep up the great work!
You have articulated in five minutes what it's taken me months to think about. When you're older, and have driven gas powered cars for 60 years, it hard to wrap your mind around the EV concept. I finally do get it, and have a down payment on a Bolt that is soon to come to my local dealer. My commute is about 70 miles round trip every day in typical Michigan weather. I see how well it will work, and don't care if I ever have to see another gas station with rude people behind the register. Thanks again for a nice video. BTW, I like the shelving behind you. We have done the same thing in our house.
I think we might see those quickie marts branching out to be more like a strip mall, but with charging parking spots. Nice food court, little theatre, arcade, brothel, everything you need to burn a couple hours and recharge the car and you!
More like a 20 min stop and a fast charger but yes similar concept.
"might see"?? There are 5 such setups that I have personally charged my car at in the past two months (3 in PA, 1 in MD, 1 in DE). There are already literally dozens and dozens of "quickie marts" with EV charging capacity all over the country.
+John Early Did a single one of them not have a fast charger?
Lol you just described a big truck stop.
Thank you for making your videos
I imagine that in the future batteries are interchangeable - you approach your spot on petrol station and robot gets your battery removed from underneath the car and replaced with already charged battery, certified for certain range. I see 3 types of batteries to start with - 50kW, 75kW and say 100kW. This would eliminate the need for fast charging and will be environmentally sound
I can't imaging that process taking any less time than 15 minutes
EDIT: since the youtube comment gods seem to have eaten your comment, I'll reply this way. I don't trust some three-letter car company out of China to do quick and dirty battery swaps. Just look at BYD's battery issues.
I wanted to clarify a little bit on the cost of infrastructure, because i feel like your video didnt properly explain it. i am in full support of EV's, but this point is important and needs to be taken into consideration on how to preemptively solve it. when talking about the cost of infrastructure, its talking about power lines, substations, phase and frequency accuracy, and significantly more factors - the large cost of updating infrastructure is not so much about gas stations but more about having to replace all the overhead lines because they cant support the large power draw of a large percentage of people charging cars all at once consistently across the grid, having to replace many substations for the increased load on its subdivision as once relatively low power neighborhoods suddenly increase significantly. creating new power stations to handle the load, adding more filtering to fix phase and frequency shifts and so on. the power infrastructure in the US at least is very old, and many of our power electrical engineers are retiring out with few students being recruited as power engineers. within the next 10-20 years this will become the key issue in all discussions from economy, quality of life, and politics as black outs will become normal, or in a more capitalistic approach charging cars will become a premium rate of electric billed separate from electricity used for household so as to limit the stress on the grid so that they dont have to replace it. this could be offset by a dispersed power grid with individual buildings having solar panels, but not matter what everyone is going to grovel so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
As a frequent road-tripper, I know I'm an outlier. They really need to get the range over 300 miles. I can't even get to Southern Illinois in one go unless I stop for an "extra half hour" Yeah, it's 30 minutes but why make my trip 30 minutes longer.
as a european, i can say that the short range disqualifies electric car for most here as well
*AnarchistMetalhead*
As a European, I can attest to the fact that the range does _not_ disqualify electric cars.
In the urban areas the main obstacle is the lack of dedicated parking space for a vehicle where one could put a charging station.
In the countryside it's the lack of dealerships and repair shops for electric cars.
I have an old car that I got for cheap from an old woman who was moving into a retirement home at 70+ years of age. It serves me perfectly well and is surprisingly efficient. I have no intention of changing until it is well and truly falling apart. That said, the more I research and the more I think about it; the more attractive an electric car seems. I think I will be looking into getting one once my current car kicks the bucket.
Excellent breakdown on the infrastructure situation. Almost two months in on my Model 3, and I haven't had to charge anywhere but home. My 70-95 mi round trip commute refills in about 90 minutes at 48 amp, scheduled at 3 AM when base load is largely nuclear on my part of the grid.
Analogy: Only station charging an EV is like only charging your phone at a gas station.
i still have not heard anyone talk about road trips which is my biggest problem with EVs
@Flinty94 if your trip is longer than the range of the car an EV has a pretty obvious disadvantage in that most EVs have recharge times in the 4 to 5 hour range vs a 10 minute refuel.
Of course this is getting to be less of an issue as recharge times decrease and ranges increase, but it's still a major downside if your driving needs requires the occasional (let's say a couple times a month or more) lengthier trip.
(That being said, people frequently overestimate how often they actually need the thing they think need)
@Flinty94 that's true, for most people this is rapidly becoming a non issue.
Watch CPGreys latest video, where he uses charging stations, and rv parks with 50amp rv hook ups to keep his car charged.
We did a 500km trip (1 way) to visit family for a few days with 3 small kids in the back, and it felt nicer in the EV (Ioniq) and 3*30min charging stops, than it was in the Toyota Petrol car. The overall difference in time was about 30 mins, as we would normally stop for about an hour anyway in the middle for lunch. Kinda have to with kids. The 500km takes around 7:30 of actual driving anyway. This was from Auckland NZ to Gisborne.
There are plenty of people who have talked about road trips, and done them in EVs
CGP Grey for example did a road trip across "the loneliest road in America" with a Tesla :
ua-cam.com/video/_naDg-guomA/v-deo.html
How to charge an electric car in the city: Public charger
How to charge an electric car in the rural area: Your own garage (Also significantly more convenient because you charge your car while you charge your own batteries, AKA sleep)
Glad you brought this up, I watched it the video and thought the same thing.
Holy hell you're on a roll. I can't keep up with your videos :(
This is so frikking important. And it's also what horrifies the entire petroleum industry and all of their sycophants.
Charging you car like you charge your phone.
Not if the same Petroleum is used at the power plant.
gasoline is profitable.
Not to mention new methods of refining new sources and increasingly efficient usage it's unlikely that ICEs and usage of patrolum is going anywhere.
EVs use lubrication, but having to use a couple dollars worth of grease once a year is a far cry from thousands of consumer dollars spent on gasoline per year. Who stands to lose? The gas station owners, the fuel distributors and the states who collect tax on retail fuel sales. No one is suggesting petroleum products as a whole will go away. What will go away is retail gasoline sales, from which a lot of people make a lot of money.
Trucks are never going to be electric, eh? Wonder why all those R&D dollars are being poured into it? OH LOOK, electric trucks are already being road tested.
It is all about efficiency.
As a single power station can produce a greater amount of energy with the same amount of fuel, it makes no sense to continue wasting fuel in millions of smaller less-efficient engines. This is before we even touch on the fact non-fossil fuel based power sources exist. These vehicles are over-coming the real limitations holding them back, such as more efficient engines and battery arrays, so the cost difference between the two is only going to increase.
As for the fact electric vehicles are still uses other oil based products... irreverent. That petroleum products are present in both makes this argument a 'null point' at best, all you can do is prove they consume the same amount of petroleum. Not only that, but this is an argument your opponent can easily hijack to strengthen their own side. All it would take is removing a single line from the comparison, such as connecting the vehicle to a green power network and removing 'fuel' from the equation....
So I really wonder why 'point and laugh' at others willing to take advantage of this increased efficiency?
Would the comparison to Laser Disk be in appropriate? As you said in your own videos the reason VHS won over Laser was that the concept of watching a movie at home was to out there untill recording TV and time shifting made the format stronger.
The concept of "my car charges like my phone, overnight while I'm not using it" is something that people seem to not understand.
Matt Lane Absolutely, "hey can I use your phone charger." Now could also become "can I plug my car in?"
Most people also use their phone a lot more than they use their car during the day.
Good point. It is like VCRs vs. Beta. Most people chose VCRs because it was practical and affordable. Was the picture perfect? No. So what? was the idea.
Beta was a techy super picture machine that only movie fanatics bought.
Cars aren't being made ridiculously thin at the expense of battery life.
Outstanding video. Grateful someone else has this onsigbt and has the guts to put it out there.
Can a charger be portable? Or installed in the car? In order to plug the car in a normal wall socket.
All EV's come with a charger that can be plugged into a wall socket. Most EV owners choose to install a "fixed charger" on their garage wall for convenience. My charger is always in the car and at home I have a permanent cable. So when I get home I just plug in the cable that's hanging right next to the charge port.
I'm not sure that we even need fast charging infrastructure, if battery packs are standardised (I don't know kind of like AA batteries) then for long range simply swap batteries at a service station, Trucks will surely take this route with slower static charging and quick battery swap stops purely because its better for the batteries and the haulage companies. Having a minimum standard for a battery's health would then make swapping in a battery less of a risk compared to our current attitude (like with laptops) that we have to have the same one battery in our device forever. The company that made the battery might even own it and have the responsibility for its health, service and replacement and with a grid of 2 batteries for every one vehicle some of the connected battery capacity might be usable by the power companies to smooth out their requirements and maintain the grid.
This is ingenious, but I can't see it actually happening. More likely that the trucking company would own the batteries and the truck stations or maybe their most common clients would charge the drained ones and keep track of which belong to which companies, etc. But even then, it just doesn't seem like an economically viable option for the companies involved. They are companies, after all. They exist purely to make money. Buying three times the batteries they technically need and trying to implement a system for them just isn't something that looks good to an accountant or a CEO.
It's not buying 3 of the same battery though it's buying 6AAA batteries and using 2 at a time while 4 are on charge instead of a single 9V battery they have to design themselves. They provide the same capacity overall but with 6AAA batteries you have a fraction of the downtime think about how long it takes to replace batteries in a remote control vs how long it takes to charge them. And standard parts vs propitiatory so less R&D budget for making the batteries or designing components that match them
Economies of scale also means if you're buying 6000 of something ends up having cheaper overheads than 1000 of something while the cost of the materials wont change the cost of the tooling is reduced, a company makes more so they get better and faster at it and it becomes cheaper and so on, these are things most CEOs should recognise.
Batteries on cars are very hard to take out and if we were to make them easier to remove there could be safety concerns.
No doubt about that but there are means and ways to make them safer in that regard if the will was there, I know I'm suggesting a somewhat fundamental shift in the way we treat the batteries in electric vehicles. One of them is making them easy to replace not an integral part of the chassis and so there would need to be redesigns, I wouldn't be against a battery that can only be accessed from the underside of the car and so replacing requires driving over a pit and having a person (or robot) replace the battery something that can be done by anyone at home but is a lot harder without pit access.
One of the biggest safety concerns would probably be touching the terminals if the batteries are powerful enough to short through skin contact that could be a problem, and it could be solved by having a spring-loaded mechanism over one or both of the terminals something the car could use mechanical advantage to open as part of insertion but a human couldn't without tools and stupidity, it wouldn't be foolproof but then nothing is.
Another risk might be that the battery may be less protected, but I'm suggesting smaller batteries as well as replaceable ones, almost any risk that could exist for a small battery could be mitigated by using the same space as the larger battery with additional safety features. Where you have batteries you could have battery "airbags" that in the event of a car crash expload with fire retardant foam encasing the battery bay, protecting the battery from damage and preventing any fire from causing the battery to create extra problems.
@@johnydl those are not worthwhile tradeoffs right now due to the energy density of batteries, you would absolutely demolish your range. look at formula E, the cutting edge of electric cars, instead of switching batteries they switch entire cars because of the risks involved in swapping batteries on the fly. you cant think of electric car batteries as the same kind of thing as most other batteries because they are significantly more dangerous. There are MANY cases where an entire fire department was unable to put out an electric car fire for days so any onboard fire supression will do nothing
I wonder what will replace gas stations as the socially accepted privatized public bathrooms though? Will cities have to build their own or will people just scope out chain restraunts with toilets near the entrance? Like, you're going through town and little Timmy needs to tinkle, will we stop at Red Lobster or will the city fund their own potty spots? 🤔
I've never seen a (public) EV charging location that doesn't have public toilets associated with it somewhere nearby, and there will always be quickie-marts.
People already use fast food places like McDonalds for that. Nice try though.
Who uses the bathroom at a Gas Station? Gross.
I think gas stations would ditch the pumps and become a convenience store instead
Gas stations don't make much money selling gasoline, it's a low margin product. Gas stations make money from their convenience stores and EVs aren't going to stop people wanting to buy something on the road quickly.
Your videos that I’ve seen have been fairly decent so far, so I think I’ll stick around for more
Great video, thanks for talking sense about this topic
BP announced recently that they'll be adding charging stations to a large number of the petrol stations (gas station) in the UK.
Which is wonderful to hear....petroleum companies are scared :)
Spoken like someone who doesn't know anything about anything. :)
Oil and gas are in no danger of petering out.
@@TheTundraTerror Yes, they still have their uses in the current day, people in Aussie and NZ no less (Also: this very channel's coal heater video). Hopefully we'll be able to move on from petroleum extraction, but dense energy storage is something we'll always want.
Whoops. You overlooked a vital problem, as almost everyone else does. In the urban scenario anything residential around 50 years and older will have major problems. This is the 1970's and older. The average house was under 2000 sq. ft with most houses serviced with 60 amps and the larger ones 100 amp. Vast swathes of the N.A. urban landscape looks like this. The problem is that these neighbourhoods can support surprisingly few charging stations simultaneously. Like 3! When the areas were designed there wasn't the same need for electricity. Transformers, wire capacity, all the upstream infrastructure doesn't have the overhead available to handle a large increase in electric draw. Newer developments aren't so limited. Changing this is an enormous and expensive task. Not likely to happen. Obviously commercial and industrial zones are not limited like this. It was a purely cost saving measure.
Yep, and just because one has a 200 amp panel doesn't necessarily mean the service (on the utility side) is capable of 200amps. The utility will gamble with existing infrastructure as 200 amp is very likely never going to happen (until now with EV)
Hmm. I would be surprised if utilities haven't or aren't already planning for this. But, another thing which I think is important to consider, is that an EV can charge at any rate. I'd like to see software developed for EVs where they charge only at the rate to be full by X time. In that case, for a typical 40 mile commute, the car would only pull 1.5 kW over an 8 our period. With intelligent charging, demand can be managed.
Matt, it will pull 1.5kW *for 8 hours* which would be 12 kWh. That would move a car like the Bolt 48 miles. If you're driving 70 miles each way, congratulations, you're above average. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss things in averages.
Technology Connections I work for a utility and I've heard talk of something similar: time share. Electric utility is extremely capital intensive, and like all good businesses they will maximize the return on their investment by postponing the replacement or expansion of equipment. (I'm talking of the US of course), but regulated utilities have creative (but legal) accounting when it comes to getting the electric $rate set by the public utility commission (i.e. if work can be considered capital it will be, as opposed to O&M which comes out of their pocket). So basically infrastructure won't be upgraded until there is in place demand (i.e. overloaded equipment.) Of course utilities will argue this grey area. This is the frustration folks have with a regulated utility when talking about supply/demand and EV.
Matt, you could've used that same argument in the early 1900s. When houses were first getting wired for electricity all they had were a couple of light bulbs and maybe a radio. Would you be the guy saying, "there is no way every household can get an air conditioner, refrigerator, washing machine, dishwasher, television, etc...)?
Things happen over time and slowly the grid would adjust.
Also I think you are really overestimating the need to "rebuild the entire US power grid". In many places we produce a surplus of electricity already. Plus each individual house is using less electricity as we transition to much more efficient appliances and our houses become better insulated.
THANK YOU! I have tried for years to explain this to people and have never been able to put it so succinctly. Now I can just send your link :) BTW, the same line in Engineering Explained's video set me off too.
I do agree with you so much. We have two Chevy Bolts and a charging station at home. Only have to use level 3 charging when we go on a road trip and now most hotels have charging stations for free...
I don't know about home use, but the charging stations recently installed in the city-owned parking garages of my city cost an obscene amount to install. It's mostly the main problem of "there aren't any charging stations, so we won't buy electric cars" "there aren't any cars, so we won't install charging stations" and "we have charging stations but no-one has electric cars"...
How much?
This is the big issue. For public stations to be viable right now someone has to foot the bill and believe in EV. It's the catch-22 that as he mentioned could be solved with public utilities intervening but until some government entity decides to do so then we are just going to end up with companies pointing the finger at one another with nobody taking initiative.
I couldn't find an exact number, but I found an old article estimating $100,000 USD was budgeted for ten parking lot stations. (Note that those are on ground level, not in an existing structure.) The article mentions that the stations can fully charge a car in four hours, so I don't know how that stands up quality-wise.
It doesn't help that my father (who works in an office connected to a parking garage) says that the ones inside are very rarely used, making them a huge loss to the city's finances.
I have no idea what you mean by "future-proofed". If you mean to say that installing charging stations somehow makes the lots/garages immune to an impending mass extinction of parking... what? Or do you mean that they are insured and cannot be damaged? Or do you mean that all future cars will have the same charging standards, because then I'll refer you to any charging cables or converters/bricks.
I assume you're referring to buying the stations to be a one-time payment, and not actually the price of running and maintenance. (The electricity that goes into charging the cars, ghost power required to run the lights and monitors, credit card fees, wireless connection to parking systems, repairs, eventually app maintenance...) Which is obviously costs more than maintaining a section of plain asphalt.
"The electricity that goes into charging the cars"
You already said there's nobody using them right now. That means there's no electricity going to charge the cars. You can't have it both ways - complaining that nobody uses them so they were a waste of money, and that all the electricity being used to charge the cars is a waste of money. Only one of those can be true. And then you mentioned credit card fees, which means people are paying for charging, which means the electricity being used to charge cars isn't being paid for by the city.
You need to stop trying so hard, you just keep contradicting yourself over and over and over.
As great as an electric vehicle would be here is my problem. I can fill up and drive 469 miles. Then pull into any gas station, and in 5 minutes be full again and drive another 469 miles. All in a car with all the creature comforts for less than $25,000. When electric gets there I would consider it. Until then nope. Yes I do drive in excess of 200 miles on lots of days since my job consists of driving to multiple customers spread out all over this end of the state. I think that eventually they will come up with a car and charging system that has long range, and can be charged in minutes, and is reasonably priced for the masses. That's what it will take for the masses to be convinced.
No, that's what it'll take for the 5% of "the masses" who have the kind of atypical driving needs you described will need in order for an EV to appeal to them. And by really rough estimates, your described transportation needs about 20 gallons per day of fuel, for about $60, doesn't it? An EV would need about $15 in electricity for that distance, so the ICE is costing you $45/day * 200 days/year, or just shy of $10K per year in extra fuel cost,. So, "less than $25000", really?
Sorry; was in a hurry and seized on the 470 miles/day figure.
Last time I looked at an electric car, the cost for a chevy volt was over $50,000. So that's $25,000 more than the corolla I drive. At a savings of $2.00 per day, it would take 62.5 years for the savings to pay for the additional $25,000. And still I would not be able to refuel in less than 5 minutes. My wife only drives about 10 miles per day. She could live with the overnight charging every few days, BUT we use her car for road trips on the weekends. Next week a trip to Cincinnati. Not practical even with fast charging. So for road trips you would have to rent a car with ICE. Again adding to the cost of the electric car. I know about cars like the tesla, but I could buy 4 corollas for what 1 tesla would cost. Like I said I think the technology will get there, it's just not there yet. I have looked at some hybrids. They could pay out in 8 to 10 years. They would also work for road trips and days of heavy driving. Only thing I am afraid of is maintenance. If I have to replace the battery in say 6 years, that could suck up any savings in fuel.
Long haul driving is what is causing some companies to want to go hydrogen fuel but it's issue is needing energy to make energy to ... well... make energy. Elon Musk loves poking fun at how hydrogen fuel production is inefficient right now. (the example being using CNG to make hydrogen to make electricity when one could have just driven a CNG vehicle)
and yet, if you have a solar powered home and take an extra battery with you, you will never need to buy electricity or gas ever again.
You have a new subscriber! Great video!
Now that the range of the vehicles is breaking the 100-mile barrier, things are getting much, much easier to use an EV. My partner takes the Leaf to and from work, he can commute, on the highway, to and from work without having to worry about not having enough power to make it home (charging is nearly impossible at his office), so he charges it with a 120v cord, when he gets home. It's ready by the time he's ready to leave the following day.
Thank you for this video, it's a great way to start the discussions and get people thinking again.
I get what you're saying, but RFID readers on the plug would not be the way. I don't have a better idea myself, but (having electrical engineering experience myself) I don't think RFID would be the way to do it. It is faaaarrr too easy to spoof an RFID tag or to have ones own tag copied by some nefarious individual looking to charge for free.
I do agree with most of what you're saying though, and I really enjoyed the video. Looking forward to seeing the next one. Thanks!
BEdmonson85 there's no reason to assume that RFID is inherently insecure in this manner, correct implementation of the security allows for verification of identity without being clonable
Actual bank account cards aren't much more secure than this though. But payment systems like scanning qrcodes on your phone or just using the RFID from your plug to tell which car to make the request out for in which it would pop up on your phone and ask if you want it to would be secure.
BEdmonson85... Actually, the cars already are capable of identifying themselves via the data link that is built into the Charging Stations. All the Charging Stations need to do is develop billing systems based on the existing vehicle communications protocol.
CHargepoint doesn't require an RFID card lately.... they say you can just plug in and go... I think this means they are finally using the VIN number that is communicated over the DCFC CAN BUS link.
Now that would be about the best way I could imagine at the moment. Having the VIN communicated over the CAN buss would certainly be better than an RFID tag. Pretty good thinking on the designer's part if that's already implemented.
@Technology Connections:
What about the problem of increased demand for electricity, when all cars switch to electric? That would require more electricity to be produced, but also increase the load on the grid.
Two words: Timed charging.
Our utility heavily discounts electricity in an effort to get us to charge while demand is low. The easiest way to change behavior is to change the price of a good or service.
This, of course, won't solve the entire problem of increased load on the grid, but it will go a long way to better utilizing our infrastructure.
@@mvansumeren4313 I'm 100% confused at how that is supposed to work. The vast majority of people work at something like 9a-5p. Then the evening might be spent running errands and such, so probably 99% of people are only going to be able to charge their vehicle at night. You can't just randomly change 50% of jobs to a night shift time to fix that. It doesn't work that way.
@@mickeymouse12678 You said it yourself. Most people work 1st shift and grid utilization is very low at night (there is massive excess capacity at night time). Rather than having to build more infrastructure to accommodate increased load from everyone plugging in immediately when they get home, simply shift that load to when businesses are closed, people are in bed, and AC units aren't running hard. It's all about properly utilizing existing systems.
@@mvansumeren4313 I'm confused. If literally everyone had an electric car, everyone charging the car at once during nighttime would put a strain on things, no???
@@mickeymouse12678 True, there will need to be some infrastructure retooling to accommodate increased EV use, but it's not as bad as one would think. Long story short, my place of employment has an air conditioning system that uses ~1,000 KW of power when operating at full capacity. This essentially shuts off at night as cooling isn't needed. An average EV needs 6-10 KW of power to charge as fast as it can on its internal charger. Basic math shows that you can charge >100 EVs at no grid impact when this chiller shuts off for the night. Bear in mind that this is one AC on one biggish building. There are literally tens of thousands of systems like this one that, at night, aren't used. I won't even approach the subject that EVs are essentially rolling computers and can themselves be used to help stabilize the grid. If you"re interested in this subject I recommend Tom Scott, and Practical Engineering. This video in particular can provide some insight on EVs potential roles in grid operations. ua-cam.com/video/5uz6xOFWi4A/v-deo.html
You mentioned a video about your experience installing an EVSE in your apartment lot, but it looks like it’s been marked private. Any plans to repost or remake it?
When I visit my father, I bring my infrastructure with me and plug in to the NEMA 6-50 outlet he already has near his garage
I have looked into it, and you are being FAR too optimistic. When I drive more than 200 miles (2-3 times a month according to Google's tracking) then what do I do? I cannot go from where I live to my brother's house without taking an extra day to get to superchargers. Give me a Chevy Volt any day of the week or build up the supercharger infrastructure. Until then, I have to have a gas-powered vehicle.
This video is more about addressing the future, not necessarily the current state of affairs. DCFC is being built out quickly, and once it does long-range travel will be very manageable. But the important of home charging should NOT be overlooked. That's the main point of this video.
For now, the best solution would be a hybrid like the Chevy Volt. In the future, DC fast charging and battery technology should improve to make such a journey hardly any more of a hassle than with a gas car.
quadrplax the us has an advantage in this, as it's one big country.
Imagine doing a long drive across countries in an ev, that's not a tesla.
Magnamundian LP OP made it very clear that his brother's house is out of range on a single charge.
I have support electric vehicles since 2006 and think they are fantastic,
However I think you are missing the whole charging infrastructure issue. Almost everyone who has an electric vehicle already has charging at home. You seem to be quite adamant that 'fueling' stations aren't needed because everyone can charge at home rather then at a fuel station. You seem to be under the misconception that people think they need fueling stations to charge their vehicle before they go home each night and don't realize that they can charge them at home.
The need for "fueling/charging station" isn't so people can charge their vehicle before they park it for the night. I don't understand where this idea comes from? It's so they can either get to where they're going, or have enough charge to get back.
I'm not rural, I live in a city about 175km away from one edge of a major metropolitan area. Going into the big city, stopping a few places and making it back requires charging somewhere that isn't my house or my work. This is especially true in the winter when the car's range is reduced. Going to the family's cottage on weekend is impossible without charging infrastructure along the way... and not just along major highways.. we go to the cottage to get away from the city and traffic, so it's not along side a major highway...it's out in the country side. So you need charging stations at more locations then just your home and where you work. You need somewhere in small towns to stop and charge; take a break, have a coffee.. not just along highways. Visiting family for holidays, birthdays, weddings.. all require the infrastructure to be in place along the way.
Until the infrastructure is in place to quick charge along the trip having one electric vehicle and gasoline vehicle, or renting a gasoline vehicle are really the only solutions for many.
To me too, it's not conceivable that someone doesn't understand that you charge an EV predominantly at home and at work. And like you, it's kilometres and not miles. It must be some kind of mental disconnect between continents.
You say everyone who has an EV has a charger at home. And yet, how many people don't have an EV because charging at home is not an option, or in case of some unnamed country that measures distances in units of 5000-something appendages, apparently some people have not considered that at all?
But it is also to be considered that EVs are just not fit for everyone and every use with currently available battery capacities. Even if fast chargers were universally available, you'd still need to stop for half an hour or an hour to charge, which is a major inconvenience if this happens to not be at exactly the place where you were going to spend time. This is i believe fundamental, as you can't put energy into a battery in a lossless manner, so the waste heat has to go somewhere, and the heat production can not be allowed to occur so rapidly that the car would set itself on fire! All those super fast charging demonstrations so far, like where it would take minutes, take place under ridiculous test setups to manage the heat.
I thought the same when I saw the video. It was the usual stuff from someone new to living with an EV. But Jason is a smart guy. I’m sure he’ll figure it out and talk about it in upcoming videos.
While i'm not 100% sold on EVs, your bring a good point here sir, a point of view I hadn't thought of before, speaking of infrastructure. Compared to any other alternatives we've explored thus far, electric is the only other thing I can think of that we DO have a ton of existing infrastructure for. Love your videos my friend!
I'm afraid this video makes a glaring mistake. Yes local charging makes sense, but in rural areas one has to consider the infrastructure. This video implies the primary infrastructure is in place, but most rural infrastructure was built in the 50s. It would not be capable of handling this kind of load, especially if everybody plugged their vehicles in every night.
30 amps at 240v for every household on the local grid would cause havock. Sure your house might be provisioned with 200 amp service, but the utility is banking on the fact that nobody is sustaining that kind of load. I suspect most people on the grid are using on average 25-30kwh per day. If everybody has to charge 5-10kw that is an extra 30% load on top.
You might say that the load is distributed by charging overnight, when, in theory, consumption is lower. However, this makes the assumption that there is only baseload providing power during the day. That is not the case. There are many different peak load systems that kick in to offset peak usage during the day. The only way to remedy that is to bring more baseload capacity online. Which means more infrastructure.
+Chris Chaffey Charging at night still makes a lot of sense, most industry is shut down, few people are brewing coffee etc at 2am. The more electric vehicles on the road the less power the oil refineries are taking from the grid and people have moved from tungsten incandescent light bulbs to the less power hungry compact florescents and now LEDs there should be some excess grid capacity. An EV is the ideal load for the grid, that is why they encourage them, always happy to sell more power, especially in the small hours of the morning when no one else wants it. If some more grid infrastructure becomes necessary it will be installed, just as it always has been whether it is for a new housing division or a new super-market. The grid is in the business of selling electricity.
Here's an important question: if the entire US switched to EVs, could its power grid sustain the draw assuming 1 vehicle per 3 people?
As it is, nightly power use is extremely minimal and power grids around the world seem optimized to deal with this reality utilizing large "battery" clusters to store energy produced by generators during operating hours at night for later use during the busy day. If this is not sustainable, then when everyone must charge their vehicles at night (every single night), the feasibility of total traffic conversion to EV seems unlikely.
A fair point, that is likely not often taken into consideration.
Something tells me that it would require substantially more runtime for power plants to keep up with the sustained higher demand. The cost of electricity would likely increase. Assuming most users would charge at night, solar generation would struggle to keep up with demand - even home solar systems who store charge in localized batteries would be less than feasible due to current/voltage drops, and other general inefficiencies of charging a battery from another battery. Coal and natural gas generation would be... less than ideal. I suspect the only real stable and on-demand source of energy would be nuclear, given current technology.
It won't be a problem. EVs won't suddenly become the automobile of choice and overwhelm the grid. It'll take tens of years for people to switch to EV driving, and the power companies will be able to adapt to match people's changing needs.
Not saying it would be a problem. Just thinking about the implications of the adaptations that would have to occur.
There are two ways to answer this, and they are both "Yes".
Growth in EVs is slow, and utilities are actually seeing demand decrease overall. The increasing efficiency of light bulbs, appliances, and other devices is actually slowing electricity demand. Funny, it's as if progress makes things better...
Secondly, accounting for _all passenger miles traveled_ than if all cars were to suddenly become EVs, this would be about an 18.2% increase in grid demand. Here's how I got to this figure:
Total number of miles driven annually in the US by passenger vehicles 2015: 2,984,178,000,000 (2.98 trillion) miles.
Most EVs get around 4 miles per kWh, so you're talking 746,042,500,000 kWh (or 746,000 GWh).
According to the EIA, there were 4,077,601 GWh generated in the US last year.
Divide 746,000 by 4,077,601 and you get .182, or 18.2 percent.
That would be nearly impossible to manage overnight, but this will take years. One can hope that EVs themselves will be able to feed back into the grid and be part of the battery storage solution we need for an entirely renewable grid.
Technology Connections Nice analysis. I like the cut of your jib, sir!
That small, white television on the shelf behind you looks exactly like the one that my father bought when I was a kid in the 1970's.
Great video (as always)! One point that you could reinforce more (maybe in its own video - as it is a fascination issue in itself) is how electric vehicles plugged into charging stations actually help the grid to convert to renewable energies: As renewable energies (other than hydro) typically put more dynamic loads on the grid than is healthy for a legacy grid, the combined capacity at large scale of huge amounts of EVs can help balance these loads, as the EVs could charge and discharge (only to a certain level of course) to balance out peak loads or demands locally.
My issue is I tend to do way more than 200 miles at a time on a trip. I am not going to park for 8 Hours every time I go more than 200 miles. Then the political people will want to start hitting up the electric charge locations for some sort of road maintenance or use tax.
Sean-Not-Telling... If you are on a long road trip, you will be able to find a Quick Charge station that can charge your EV to an 80% charge in 30 minutes to an hour. If you drove a Chevy Bolt, that would equate to an additional 200 miles. The 8 hours figure mentioned in the video was for a standard 120 volt outlet in your garage. If you install a 240 volt charger that time is reduced by 50-60%.
Can it tow any load like my 12,000 trailer?
If your in Soviet Russia
Wouldn't they just stack it all on to and skip the trailer?
Why not? It's perfectly possible to build an electric truck to tow 80,000 lbs (hence the existence of Tesla Semi prototypes). But for consumers in 2018, there just isn't that much of a demand for an electric pickup truck yet. At this moment it's simply more obvious to build EVs for city dwellers (who don't need to tow 12,000 lbs trailers).
I would love to see gas stations just become little convenience stores. I already treat them this way.
They basically already are, they make almost no money selling gasoline all their money is made from merchandise in their store
I, for one, go on long trips (or did before Miss Rona) over 200 miles one way every month or so. The lack of public charging infrastructure in the rural AF area where I travel is a serious impediment to me getting a pure EV.
Why did you hardwire your EV charging station? I installed a level 2 charging station for my friend's tesla using a NEMA 14-50 4 prong range outlet. The Tesla model came with such a plug already molded on.
Increased reliability, less vulnerable to tampering, fewer points of potential failure, decreased cost, and 100% less likely to be unplugged to name a few reasons.
I think there is a bit missing. The charger is only a little part of the infrastructure, making electricity and getting it to you home is the biggest part. At one point I did the math and for the US to replace all its gasoline use with the equivalent electricity, the production and distributions capacity would have to at least double what it is now, that is a monumental task
It won't happen overnight. The electricity infrastructure is constantly growing and so is the use of electric vehicles.
Average electricity consumption of US residential consumption was 10.8MWh for 2016. The average daily driving distance is about 40 miles, and an EV needs 10kWh to drive that far. Assuming each driver drives every day of the year, the average driver needs 3.65MWh per year for transport. If each household added two EV drivers, that's still less than the energy it already uses; how do you figure that demand would more than double? And that's if all drivers instantly switched to EVs. Given that the changeover will probably be spread over a decade, I think the electrical supply will keep up just fine.
Its not double, its closer to 1/3rd. It doesn't need a to happen overnight and as renewable are added to the grid this provides a distributed source of energy to sink into so the existing distribution infrastructure doesn't need that many upgrades.
One little point: the difference in grid load between min and max demand is likely already at least a factor of two. I recall the National Grid in the UK saying that they could support something like 20 million electric cars charging overnight right now. I wouldn't be surprised if the situation in the US is similar.
+Roxor128 Yes the capacity is there. A coal fire power plant could easily just run all night and burn more coal. Its ramped down because the demand isn't there not because the capacity isn't there. Just as an over simplified example one scenario could be you drive to work and charge off of solar panels at work and you drive home powering your house with your car at peak demand then charge your car off coal fire at night and ramp down the charging of EVs in the morning so that coal fire is level thoughtout most of the day.
It is simply incorrect. Adding massive amounts of same moment (in the night) charging is something that electric network will not be able to handle. We can see an example in Norway with just tiny fraction of EV vehicles, where the EV owners just have charging issues.
For you example of 50 flat building - 50 EVs charging at the same time at 16A rate will create 800A of current. Charging just half of that will generate 400A of current (assuming half will charge at work or something.
And current network is not ready to handle that. All buildup counts of different users peaking in different times so the load is distributed.
And you can't do that with EV's - those hours of night charge is simply needed and will start at the same time.
So change to network is to be massive.
I see EVs as a dead end, if we really want to move forward, hydrogen as a replacement for gas can be much better way as it can be distributed, stored and managed offline. But you don't get this with EV.
And of course batteries suck, create polution in making them, has limited life and there is not enough resources to make enough EV cars for all... But that's just a side note.
Network will not hadle EVs revolution, should there be any.
Exactly this! You are completely right.
So, it's still a problem.
Pixie Panda Plush So it's still not true that infrastructure is already there and will not need investments. It will. It is not ready. It can be gradual but it will be needed and it will not be easy.
And of course once you want to move to things like solar to produce electricity you are in trouble because you need to charge batteries in night...
With hydrogen you can generate it when excess power is available and then move it. Not with EV with half ton of batteries, that needs power in night and all of them at the same time.
You will need completely new grid with mega huge investments.
Pixie Panda Plush So it's still not true that infrastructure is already there and will not need investments. It will. It is not ready. It can be gradual but it will be needed and it will not be easy.
And of course once you want to move to things like solar to produce electricity you are in trouble because you need to charge batteries in night...
With hydrogen you can generate it when excess power is available and then move it. Not with EV with half ton of batteries, that needs power in night and all of them at the same time.
You will need completely new grid with mega huge investments.
Spot on! "Charge it like my phone?" You mean, buy a new one when it won't hold a charge anymore?. No one's talking about battery capacity after prolonged use or battery replacements.. instead of "imagine if you could refuel your car like you charge your phone.." you could say: imagine a gas tank that holds less gas each time you fill it, and has a life expectancy that cannot be measured in decades. ;)
UK resident here. I live in a 3 bedroom terrace house built in 1891, along with most of the houses around me. Nobody on the street has a driveway, garage or a guaranteed parking space apart from disabled residents. The Victorian roads in the estate are narrow so we can only park on one side, despite houses being on both sides of the street. Sometimes I have to park two blocks away after work, so I cannot charge at home. Even if I managed to park outside my house, I’d have to trail a wire across the pavement which could be a potential tripping hazard and inconvenient for wheelchair or pushchair users, even with a cable guard. Parking for my workplace is on a field in the middle of farmland with no access to electricity. The nearest outlet is in the farmhouse 1 minute walk away.
I’m not trying to make it sound complicated, but it’s simply not viable for me at this time, even though the likes of a Nissan Leaf would be perfect for my needs.
Thank you again for this Video. Never really thought about it, even though I travel mostly electric (but not by car ^^). Also Charging with 230V is not a problem in Europe. And for my commute, it would be more than enough (about 7km).
The thing most people don't seems to understand is that not everyone has a garage or a dedicated land to park his/her car and charge it. In my cities in Europe for example you park your car on the side of the street. When lucky it will be in front of your door but it can at 500 meters of where you live. Also front lawn are not really a thing here and it is illegal for a citizen to put and let an electric car on the sideway to charge his/her car. Charging a car overnight is simply not possible for the vast majority of people here. You would need to destroy every walkway in every cities, install really slim charging point, set up a system to ID who is connected and where...This is not as simple as one could think.
Everything you said was addressed in the video. Clearly you didn't watch it.
No it was not, i watched the video.
Fun fact that you have overlooked as an EV supporter you missed the biggest flaw in EV cars. Battery life is short compared to gas and diesel engines. Every battery has a short lifespan Lead acid is one of the more durable one. Lithium-ion not so much, it does have better capacity but the lifespan is shorter and far more expensive to replace. With EV cars we look at a future of the buy use buy use, not buy use repair repair and so on. Another fun fact i want to drive from California to Texas an EV car can't do that so i need a gas driven car to do that. Easy example of the EV price and usefulness being a joke, I own a car with its original engine that is 60 years old. Does it require special care of course, fuel is not the same today. Do EV vehicles have a place? maybe. Are they the solution? no Do I want to see the tech pushed? yes. But sadly for a channel called technology connection they have seemed to forget the flaw in batteries that we have not solved yet... diminishing returns. The more you use a rechargeable battery the less you get out of it.
You are absolutely wrong about Lead Acid being longer lasting than Lithium batteries. As far as longevity goes, there is a company that shuttles people between LA and Las Vegas that has over 300,000 miles on a Tesla. The battery has shown no appreciable degradation because, the battery is still under the manufacturer's warranty and if the battery were failing they would have had the battery replaced. Additionally, this Tesla was almost exclusively charged with the Superchargers during it's entire life. This proves that Lithium Batteries can be engineered to provide long life and accept fast charging at the same time. PS: you can easily drive a Tesla from California to Texas !!!
It actually is a valid that lithium ion batteries have relatively short lifespans, which can be seen if you've ever had to switch out a laptop battery every few years. However, the life of the battery can be dramatically extended by never operating outside of the 20% - 80% charge range, which is one of the many maintenance functions performed by the software in most EVs.
You are making an assumption that battery technology is going to stay the same. As battery technology changes and energy density increases a battery pack change will mean longer range, faster charging, and increased reliability .
Factual answer. The technology has evolved. The initial batteries used in the Nissan Leaf were on the whole junk. They did degrade quite badly. However modern batteries are far more reliable. The Renault Zoe (not available in the US I know - but one of the best selling EVs in western Europe) has been around since 2012 and we're starting to see some decent mileage on them (100k plus). Battery state of health is normally still in the mid to high 90s pecentage wise. That's not serious degradation at all really and points to a lifetime that will match the typical lifetime of the car. That is primarily down to decent battery management that keeps the charge range within the 20-80% and good thermal management so that when rapid charging, the battery is kept at the optimum temperature.
I know nothing about electric cars, so my question may seem naive: Does electric car performance remain consistent over the entire duration of the charge? Or does the vehicle 'slow down' when it is down to, say, a remaining quarter charge?
Great video, thanks! As an owner of a Tesla since 2018, having traveled over 140,000 km since I purchased it, including multiple road trips across the continent, I can second everything you mentioned about infrastructure. And in fact, for rural dwellers it's indeed easier to build their own charging infrastructure at their residence. As an urban dweller of highly densely populated areas like Vancouver, BC and Seattle, WA downtown cores, it is indeed tricker for such residence to build their own infrastructure. And even being on an HOA board and promoting installing shared EV charging infrastructure in the parking garage, there is some pushback from other owners, mostly due to cost and having to allocate some already stretched shared resource in a form of visitor parking (of which there are only 5 stalls for a 100 unit highrise), there are alternatives including charging at work, certain shopping malls that add EV charging capacity, as well as Tesla's urban chargers infrastructure, that bridges this gap. And with a little shift in behavior (as in - planning to visit a grocery store or mall that offers charging, not just to charge, but to also replenish vital supplies like...mmm... food, I "kill both birds with one stone" - getting both my car and my fridge re-fuled. And for long distance trips, yes, I do plan my trip itinerary a bit more to couple longer supercharging stops with meals, and sometimes looking specifically for hotels with EV charging to stay overnight, I have never experienced a problem during my long 3-month road trip across 45 of the contiguous US states. The only time where I had to specifically plan a redundancy was when I wanted to travel along Hwy 1 from NoCal down to San Francisco without any supercharger stations along the corridor instead of taking 101 with multiple supercharger stations, I just planned an overnight stay at a KOA mid-span, renting a 50A RV stall, and not surprisingly, my car was topped up to full next morning!
So, there are a few problems with what you're saying here. The first is that a lot of people in urban areas *don't own the place they live*. I can't install a charger in my apartment complex's parking lot. Even if I rented a house, the landlord would probably take issue with me installing a charger and then removing it when I moved out (besides which, the labor would probably make that worthless).
Plus, if I then want to go on a trip, I either have to find charging stations along the way (which is likely to be harder than finding a gas station) or rent a car.
Please enjoy this comment in 10 years when internal combustion is still the norm.
Even I think in 10 year's we'll primarily be using ICE cars--we're talking much more long term than that. But the popularity of the EV is steadily growing.
Technology Connections In 30 years I still think EVs will constitute less then 30% of the market. While I find the tech interesting I think it will take that long to reach a point of affordability and practicality. I would love overnight that theroum salt reactors take care of our power needs and desalination plants fix problems with water on the coasts, but it won't come. Being a pessimist has helped temper my expectations with tech in these 26 years on this rock.
given the percentage of EV's sold today and that the average lifespan of a car in the US is 12 years it would be dumb to bet against you. If, however, you want to bet that the majority of cars sold in 2028/29 will be ICE, I'll take you up on it. The advances that are being made in EV's, supercharging infrastructure and battery technology in general mean that EV's are rapidly getting to a point where they will be cheaper and more convenient than ICE models, even before running costs are factored in.
Excellent video. My wife and I had long put off an EV due to "range anxiety" - Teslas were the only truly long-range EVs, and they were well out of our price range.
We have finally become convinced that the occasional road trip isn't a massive barrier, and are looking at a used BMW i3 now. It can reach all of our usual "near vacation" spots on a single charge (beach, mountain, etc.) It can reach the next-closest major city with only one "top off" charge in the middle, not even a full recharge (and there are DC Fast Chargers along the route.) If we want to go on a longer road trip, we can either just make do with stopping every 90 minutes, or use our gas car (a Prius.) Realistically, that's probably what we'd do until it's time to replace the Prius, and inexpensive longer-range EVs and ultra-fast quick charging are a reality.
I live in Norway and the infrastructure you are referring to is well on the way. I totally agree with your points in the video. My ev car is being charged at home 90% of the time. I only use charging stations when i need a bit more juice to get home. Another point is that the charging stations dont need to be at gas stations. Here in Norway you find charging stations at grocery shops, shopping mall's restaurants etc.
Too much uninformed speculation here, not enough fact.
The following is all true facts, most of which can be verified by independent sources online.
Starting in 2013 I was part of a team that designed and built three prototype fully electric race cars. These are cars that race agains gasoline powered race cars in sanctioned races (SCCA,NASA, IMG, EMRA), top speed of 140mph, under 1-minute laps at Limerock park, speed and endurance records at multiple tracks, including hillclimb records at Mt. Washington and Pikes Peak. In other words, "real" race cars. Visit EVSR.net for more info about the cars. (EVSR=Electric Vehicle Sports Racer)
I liked racing EVSR so much that I bought a Tesla Model S as my daily driver (traded in my Lotus for it), and another of the Team EVSR drivers bought a Spark EV.
My drive to work is 100 miles each way. At home I installed a 40 amp outlet (cost under $200 for materials from Lowes, my own labor) and at work I installed an identical plug (Lowes sells them for plugging in RVs, but EVs work too) this time with even lower cost, since the outlet is 5 feet from the breaker box. In the morning my car is usually fully charged, and assuming I put in a normal day's work my car is fully charged for my drive home. From where I am right now in northern Wayne County, Pennsylvania (pretty damn rural by most any definition) it is an easy drive to an EV charging station in any of Binghamton, Scranton, or Tannersville, and there are plenty of destination chargers in the area. In fact, there are very few places in the lower 48 that cannot be reached easily by EV. I've driven my Tesla to the top of Mt. Washington and through Appalachia with no problems at all.
When taking the EVSR race car to certain race tracks (for example, Pikes Peak) there is little charging infrastructure, so we take a generator, and here is a fascinating fact: it takes 40% less gasoline to power a generator to charge the batteries in the EVSR for a race, than to fuel a similar weight and power ICE car. Example: a SRF will use roughly 3 gal for a 20 minute sprint race, and the generator to charge EVSR for that same race will use less than 2 gallons. So if all ICE cars were magically transformed to EVs there would be a significant reduction of energy consumption planet-wide. In the actual example of magic, instantaneous transformation the electric grid would be stressed, but at any rational rate of adoption of electric cars the grid will grow capacity as needed. Electric utilities are in the business of selling electricity, they will gladly increase supply to meet increased demand.
As far as escaping natural disasters, if the 300 miles that is usually in my Tesla's battery isn't enough to get away from a disaster then I have bigger problems than can be escaped by any car. Also, in case of severe flooding, the Tesla would be my choice of car, because it can drive through water deep enough that most ICE sedans would hydrolock their engines, and the extra weight and low center of gravity makes the car especially stable if there are currents in the water.
The EVSR uses LiFePO4 batteries which are very resistant to combustion, so no spectacular fires after a crash, and more importantly they use NO rare earth materials. NiCd and NiMH batteries are playing a smaller and smaller role in EV battery technology, mostly for energy density reasons and not because of toxicity, but even those don't use any rare earths. I don't know why people say that they do...
For those complaining that iron ore is strip mined and that's bad, well, it isn't the fault of electric cars, far more iron goes in to the steel for the frame of a car than for the batteries. Also, the lithium for the batteries is usually not mined at all but taken from brine deposits via evaporation, at least for the major supplies coming from South America. (I have no idea what China is doing to extract lithium, the could be strip mining for all I know.)
Until someone figures out how to store hydrogen gas at better than lithium battery energy density, or alternately figures out how to make a fuel cell that runs on hydrocarbon fuel like gasoline or ethanol, then fuel cell personal automobiles will never displace battery powered EVs. Design a fuel cell that converts gasoline (or ethanol, or other alcohol) into electricity with CO2 and H2O as byproducts and you will revolutionize personal transportation, but until then battery electrics are the next step. (BTW, build that fuel cell small enough and you will revolutionize portable electronics as well).
you have a tesla, a car that STARTS at 80k.just saying.
New tech always subsidizes the move to commodity tech.
That said, I'm converting an air-cooled Volkswagen to EV, and many (though not all) of the same benefits apply to me at substantially lower cost.
+ffaat Why though? Both cars are delivering equivalent performance, why shouldn't scaling down the energy consumption of both cars to a street driven equivalent result in proportionate reductions? By way of example, the Tesla Model S in its various performance levels on Australia's current largely fossil fuel grid puts out somewhere between a bit less and a bit more CO2 per km than a Toyota Camry, despite effectively using a much more polluting fuel at the moment in the form of coal. You might say "Aha!" to this and point out that the EV is about as bad as the ICE but remember that the Model S is a high performance luxury sport sedan while the Camry is a compact family sedan built for efficiency, and the mid range Model S *still* burns as much or less fuel on a *far worse fuel source*. Throw a Bolt or a Leaf into the mix and suddenly EVs are looking pretty good.
+John Early I expect the rare metals argument about batteries is perhaps a misunderstanding derived from the demand for rare earth metals for the magnets in the electric motors.
What ffaat and John Early aren't calculating in is the cost (energy/pollution) of refining gasoline. It takes a lot of energy (greentransportation.info/energy-transportation/gasoline-costs-6kwh.html). So much so that if the entire US magically switched to EVs overnight, it'd have almost no effect on the grid.
Granted I'm being slightly hyperbolic, but only slightly so. Much of the energy to refine gasoline comes not from electricity but from other fossil fuels (coal is quite popular, but other hydrocarbons from the oil that can't be sold are also often burned). At the same time, most EVs are charged at night, and since grid management is more about peak than continuous power, there's a lot of excess capacity available at night.
EVs have already won in the efficiency/pollution category before any gasoline is even consumed. So that Model S is still better than that tiny Honda fit or whatever.
"total lifecycle environmental cost of an EV vs an ICE"
EVs (even massive ones like the Tesla Model S) destroy ICEs once you factor in gasoline refinement costs.
Most of the car is the same. The batteries are pretty mundane (electrek.co/2016/11/01/breakdown-raw-materials-tesla-batteries-possible-bottleneck/). Really, apart from cobalt, everything else is pretty benign. Sure its better not to get a car than to buy a new one, but when comparing apples to apples, EVs destroy ICEs hands down.
"And I'd rather charge an EV with nuclear"
Well that really depends on where you live. Where I live we only get around 10% or so of electricity from fossil fuels, the majority comes from nuclear (60%) and hydro (24%). So where I live EVs would be mostly nuclear powered/hydro powered. If you live some place sunny you can always get solar panels. Even if only 20% of your electricity comes from renewables, its still better than 0%. That's the thing with EVs, they'll scale with whatever new technology comes out.
Also, if you look in to how much energy is wasted during grid off-peak hours, charging EVs at night (which is when the vast majority are charged) is pretty cheap in many places (both in terms of $$ and pollution).
200 whole miles! Wow!
That really is a tiny distance unless you live in a city though. I get more than 350 miles per tank, and drive a quite inefficient car, but it takes 5 minutes to add another 350 miles to the tank.
I know very few people who *don't* have to make a 300-400 mile trip at least once a month. It would be ludicrous to say that this trip would need to take 2 days, not not just a few hours.
If everyone only drove 200 miles a day, sure, EVs would be great. I can't say I know a single person who could live with only an EV though.
The technology and infrastructure is still very very immature.
TheRealDenzel2112 so are you saying that EVs don't work because some people drive over their range? The vast majority of Americans drive way less than 200 miles a day so EVs are fine for most people. Of course for some people they won't work. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy them. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.
Magnamundian LP. A reasonable point, but we don't actually "take journeys" to gas stations. They are on the way some place. A three minute stop, a card, a hose, hang it and go another 400 miles at 40mpg with a 10 gal tank, or 20mpg with a 20 gal tank. No special journey to feed the horses.
The adopter logic almost seems like it is being pitched by people too young to drive yet. Maybe it is. However if your car needs are three to five mile jaunts, 25 miles at the most, then you are central enough to likely just ride a bus or train.
If you live rural and are retired or work at a little shop in the village, then the EV can serve your needs, but you are likely most concerned about the cist. If you were going to buy a Mercedes upon retirement, then an EV is probably a better choice. If you were going to buy a Fiesta or keep your existing car for light service now, then an EV is a very expensive move.
Notice Tesla has removed the option to even order a $35,000 car. They remain for the rich or the heavily mortgaged kiting set.
Some diesel cars get 450 almost 500 miles per tank at around 45 MPG highway. That's convenient.
Could you do a video on the maintenance of electric vehicles?
Do electric motors have to be refurbished or replaced? How often do batteries have to be changed and what is the cost, labour and expense for such a battery pack?
These are the issues I really have besides the obvious range one. I've heard here and there that the batteries in EVs die after 5-10 years and to replace them costs almost as much as the car did new. Really hoping that's exaggeration and fearmongering, but for now I haven't found a source I really trust that tells otherwise either. Is it cheaper to buy the EV in the long run? And saving the environment by not burning fossil fuels is great, but is manufacturing massive batteries or continuously buying new EVs when they bust actually helping any??
@@animeartist888 The 5-10yr lifespan depends on how often you charge it and using which level of chargers. If you only do say 10 miles a day, you'll get years out of it as opposed to someone who does 80 miles a day.
Replacement battery costs should come down as the more and more people use them, the cheaper they get, however even right now, Its not the cost of a 'new' car. They cost roughly £5000 (Price from Nissan and a new Nissan Leaf costs £21,000) and the price cheapest EV price a Renault Zoe starts at £17000 and thats not even including the battery as when you buy one, you gots to pay for a LEASE of the battery, (meaning you dont even own the battery)
Now you could go the 2nd hand route with prices starting at £8200 but then how long would that battery last??
Just change the battery.
Your videos are awesome dude.
What's to stop a prankster from passing by your car in the parking garage and disconnecting the car from the charger... ruining the whole overnight expectation? I'm not being a smarty-pants, I am simply curious. Thanks!
There are a number of ways to prevent this. Most chargers allow you to lock the charger to the car. Some cars sound the alarm when they are unplugged if locked. And most EVs will send a text message or other alert to their owners if they are unexpectedly unplugged.
Most electric cars lock the charger in place when you lock the car, and unlock it as you unlock the car, so unless he's really determined to be a dick and use wire cutters or pull so hard you'll break it, this shouldn't be a problem (and at this point it's vandalism, not just an inconvenience).
Even then, say you left your car unlocked, it'll just be like you forgot to charge it yourself, so unless you had a low charge when you plugged in, you should still have power for the next day without any problems.
The bolt has an optional alarm that will sound if this happens. Also, some EVSE equipment has a place where you can put a padlock which physically prevents the cable from being disconnected.
Some EVs have locking ports to prevent this.
Telaneo If someone tried cutting into a live 230V 30A supply, it’ll probably be the last thing they’d ever do!
When 30 or 40 million people start charging their cars at roughly the same time every day, it will strain the grid. Beyond that, when it is discovered(!) that EV users are not paying road use taxes, it is a CERTAINTY that the .government will begin an aggressive campaign to tax people per mile driven, which does two things- First, it allows your movements to be tracked, and second, it will effectively eliminate the financial impetus to drive an EV. Suddenly it will become much more expensive to drive one.
This is, of course, in addition to the rolling blackouts that already occur every summer from high demand. It is also possible that mass adoption of EVs might create a global copper shortage, which will make EVERYTHING more expensive.
The market should decide if EVs are worth a crap without government artificially manipulating the bottom line.
Looked at spec for mains of apartament block for 100 flats (120 car park spots in garage) its only 100kW.
Using 60% of max cap of meter is not possible if everyone will have EV. Means even new apartment blocks will need upgrade.
Charging on dedicated car account = possible to tax differently cars and e.g. cooking. I dont thing its benefitial for drivers
One question though. Do all cars use the same (or at least compatable chargers?)
What happens if you go uphill, or on a road trip? You'd need public charging infrastructure to do so. But hopefully you shouldn't have to have Nissan Leaf charging points and Tesla charging point and Bolt charging point etc.
I believe that they all use the same port, but you might want to do more research. When you go on a road trip, there are a lot of charging stations, and Tesla alone has many along highways. www.tesla.com/findusm#/
Your EV vids have directly inspired me to build a long range electrical bicycle.
I think people overestimate the capacity of our power grid. Part of why manufacturing went overseas and the taxes on that is because our power grid was getting stressed. So manufacturing went away, and now we have nothing but data centers here, with manufacturing slowly coming back. The grid cannot handle everyone going electric with cars. The US power grid is ancient and fragile.
Where do you get information like this so disconnected from reality?
penguins forall Uhh major manufacturers have special agreements with utilities due to the massive power draw like the person above you mentioned. It's not bullshit as you are so quick to call it. They will shut down a plant on a hot day to avoid a brownout.
Good point.
Here’s another question: Does the consumer drive the supplier, or does the supplier drive the consumer?
I think when it’s working well, it’s a little of both over long sustained period of time.
Tech is developing so fast, I don’t think the market wants to wait.
So infrastructure upgrade has to be artificially stimulated (e.g. subsidies) instead of natural progression.
"An EV won't work in my particular situation therefore they are stupid and no one should buy them!"
-most comments on to this video
Fantastic points made here.
I tell people that I mostly charge at home. I have only used public chargers to "try them out " not because I was on empty and had to charge to continue on my journey. The 3 kW charger I bought on Amazon is now 200 dollars. I had a dryer outlet installed near my driveway. So 600 dollars and I now "refuel " at home. It doesn't even need to cost 1000 dollars. It just depends on what charging speed you need.
I installed 2 EVSEs in my garage just before I bought my 2018 Bolt premier. I did that because I anticipated getting a second EV at some point. That was a great move because now I’m awaiting shipment of my second EV: 2019 Bolt premier. I still have a gas (guzzler) car, Infiniti QX80 but I’m reserving it for long road trips only. I’m so glad I went with installing 2 chargers at the start, it’s so much more convenient to refill my car at home rather than a gas station.
I know you may find this hard to conceptualize & I don't blame you because it's hard but people may want to travel further than a 200 mile radius.
Oh look, another place where I can inform you of the marvel that is DC Fast Charging, enabling just the sort of long distance travel you speak of.
Technology Connections Oh look, another place I can inform you that fast charging still takes CONSIDERABLY longer than pumping petrol. It's not "fast" when compared to pumping gas & a massive inconvenience if your journey requires several charges.
You really are a blinkered idiot.
Did I say it was as fast as pumping petrol? I don't think I did. In any case, the extra half hour you might need on a long journey will surely be recouped by all the times you didn't go to a petrol station the rest of the year.
Don't forget that while you are on that trip and power up your car overnight at the hotel, when you leave in the morning you don't need to stop for gas first, with the electric you just hit the highway avoiding the extra 20 mins the gas driver had to waste filling up.
In the end, the benefits EV provides FAR out weights the cons. Sure you can fill up your gas car faster (pros/cons to most things) so it doesn't cover all areas for the small percentage of people that decide to drive 400kms a day.
Either way you shouldn't be behind the wheel driving for those long periods anyways, take the extra 20 mins and check out the scenery and go grab a cheap lunch (that's now free from all the money you just saved by gong EV)
Thumbobby has he ever said that EVs are for everyone?
I know you may find this hard to conceptualize and I don't blame you but most people rarely drive 200 miles.
Witty comment
misunderstood response
Connor Hyland ranting reply to your comment showing how much of an expert I am ( when I'm really not)
Connor Hyland uneeded r/wooosh
It was just a joke reply
Bitter, sardonic rejoinder incorporating an ad hominem insult and two common misspellings. :emoji:
I've had an EV for about 3 years. Half of that time I spent living in LA, and the other half spent 6200 feet up a fairly isolated "rural" mountain. It takes me over two hours to go grocery shopping now. I've also done a few 9+ hour road trips with the car.
There's nothing I miss less than having to go to a gas station. It's crazy to me that some people think EVs can't work for almost any circumstance.