TIMESTAMPS: 00:01:19 Opening Statement: Green 00:07:55 Opening Statement: Pomp 00:13:07 Nefarious Activity and Transparency 00:23:26 Who Controls Bitcoin? Should It Be Banned? 00:35:23 Are There Benefits of Bitcoin to the US? 00:46:30 Exposure to Bitcoin in an Unpredictable Future 00:52:19 Can Bitcoin Be Successfully Attacked? 00:59:41 Is Wide Spread Adoption Likely? 01:11:44 Final Thoughts 🔥 𝗚𝗘𝗧 𝟳 𝗗𝗔𝗬𝗦 of Real Vision Premium access & insights for only $𝟭 (seriously!) rvtv.io/RVfor1dollar
Someone mentioned Andreas antanopolis , he would have eaten Mike for breakfast pomp is great but he is more about the asset where as bitcoin and the Genesis block is a direct attack on the banks and we all support it that is why we are investing and getting those around us to do the same .... the current global currency’s are debt based !?!? And can’t get out of that debt ..?? For many reasons Bitcoin is here and we will do all we can to keep it here . Pomp was silly to ignore the Genesis block and why it was created , honesty is needed . This is for our freedom 🔱 the banks and their friends have had many hundreds of years of dominance and war .... this is the last war ! Bitcoin is a fork for society and it’s been decided to be implemented ✌️💚☯️🔱🤿 viva la revolution
Notice the type of companies buying Bitcon with their cash versus those buying up their own stock. So we should all sell our stocks and hand over our cash to someone who is selling us their Bitcon? Why are they selling?
What this had made me do is to look up more of Mike Green's opinion. I love listening to smart articulate people who are against bitcoin. Too many vids on youtube are simply in an echo chamber. It is important to listen to the other side
In a system where only the wealthy can grow is an absolute non sense. In this system an engineer (myself) need to be a real estate agent or a trader and invest so that my savings don't loose value. It's might be easy for a person like me. But for a person who earns daily wage to eat daily to keep up with their daily spending cannot be expected to do this.
@Andre Anyone I would say Green is a payed propaganda tool. Question: What is your view on Bitcoin? Answer Green: It is an evil tool used by Iran, Russia and China to sell drugs to American babies and stop us from bombing countries to keep the MIC going.
Mike ate this guy up with objective data that I would have loved to hear refuted, instead of defensive soundbites. I hope Anthony is right because I have a lot to lose, but he's too emotionally fragile to defend. Get Saylor!
Timestamp Summary 01:25 - Background & Opening 7:00 - BTC is Anti-USD? 12:30 - Should we ban BTC? 17:10 - is BTC China controlled? 23:00 - Mike rebuttals 52:00 - 51% Attack on BTC 59:00 - 1% exposure vs CBDC/Gold 01:05:00 - BTC is Monopoly game Some timestamps got deleted while editing, sorry.
That did not age well bro🤣 I laughed out loud at 42min 36sec. I think both are right, bitcoin will never be the world currency however, at the end of consumer capitalism and the ensued subscription based economic system will ensure that deflationary assets will be out of reach for those can't afford to be financially independent!
I must say I love the fact, that they actually let the counterpart SPEAK. They take notes and then react in a civil manner. I would love to see this in the politics debate so much! Kudos for all of them!
Most of my assets are in crypto but I don’t like how Pomp was being so accusatory and sensational in this debate. He put a lot of words in Mike’s mouth.
Pomp comes out as a generic story investor who has his entire portfolio in bitcoin and "save the world" kind of investments and gets triggered with people who don't share his same views. Mike on the other hand is just China/Russia/Iran fear mongering.
It’s a rare debate that all three participants are well informed, civil, and have respect for one another. I have shared with everyone I know who are bitcoin and/or gold investors.
Mike did a great job, but Pomp did a horrible job. Sounds like he never heard of or thought about the issues raised by Mike. The BTC community is completely filled with people like Pomp. The arguments have changed so much for BTC "Money -> Currency -> Digital Gold -> Store of Value" and now its a "protocol." The psychology of this market is too reminiscent of a bubble to be investable, but its certainly fun to watch.
The hodling is the actual problem with crypto. If there is no trading in long and shorts, bitcoin will experince the same thing that happened to gamestop. Lots of bagholders and they are not going to be the ones who know how markets work. Not everybody can just hodl, what happens when theres no new suckers coming in anymore? A stock needs buying to go up, but it can fall on its own.
@@OldManNutcakez And yet it amusingly all started with a money manager - who is asserting understanding of technology if only to impeach it - claiming someone else (who worked at a technology firm for years) isn't a technologist is the classic ad hominem. Nocoiners tend to become emotional when they're busy implicitly shorting one of the greatest technologies ever created.
My favorite articulation of Anthony’s: “Mike likes to use sleight of hand and insults when he’s backed into a corner. I’m not like Mike and I’m not going to do that. And I DO know technology and how it works, because I was once employed by a tech company.” My ex-girlfriend used to work for JetBlue as an IT manager. She didn’t know a thing about jet engines. I once worked for an architectural firm. I was the janitor. Would you like me to design your next house?
Although this debate is indeed civilized and well-moderated, I must say that Pompliano is not really engaging Mike Green's specific arguments. Instead, he is destroying a strawman of his own making.
Incorrect. He is saying that despite ANY argument against bitcoin, the answer is not to ban bitcoin and leaving america behind... There are plenty of micro arguments, but only one true argument is debatable. Do we embrace this technology, or get left behind?
Look... every single person I know wants the central bank to stop printing money. So it's not simply about communicating our preferences. They won't stop printing. So our way to communicate is to opt out of the system!
buying precious metals, buying crypto I do not necessarily believe is ultimately opting out of the system. You can't really opt out lest you completely unplug from the system. At best, crypto and precious metals and other vehicles are merely ways to guard ones wealth from the ravages of the system .... not really opting out. You can't, as of yet and it will be resisted strongly, be paid in these forms, to transact in these forms full out. Best you can do is secure your wealth, ideally, redeem it for other forms of currency in order to engage in other transactions. The day may come where one does not need to redeem these alternatives stores of value before preforming basic, standard transactions, but I do not see that day as today. If one wants to communicate their displeasure at the destruction of the dollar, one needs to communicate this with those they elect. Unless this occurs, there is no incentive otherwise to act unless the crash of the system forces action .... and in that case, chances are those elected will not correct for the original error, but will double down on poor central planning and ensure greater future pains. Politicians are responsive to pressure. We see this in Covid. With a recall petition with over 2 million votes, all of a sudden the Governor of California is beginning to 'see' the science which now warrants changes in executive orders. It is funny how science all of a sudden seems to present itself that certain restrictions by government mandate are no longer necessary when the populace applies pressure. Don't wait for the 'right' people to populate the positions which impact us ..... make the system preform no matter who is in those positions.
Outstanding discussion... Extremely well moderated. I'm a Bitcoin investor and 35 year trader. Mike Green's perspective is powerful and necessary. Great job to all three participants!
If set of all investors pays certain fee to miners, doesn't that mean investors (in total) will always be in loss? How can investors gain their money back that they lost to miners' fee, other than from other investors?
Lol mature? Hardly. When you personally bash people in your statements, I wouldn't consider that mature. Saying Micheal Saylor is not someone to accept life advice from because he's invested in Bitcoin is absurd. Especially since Micheal is extremely intellectually inclined.
Military industrial complex, probably the single most pertinent factor influencing countries to forsake ethics and morality in favour of economic gain...
Was thinking the same thing...If you've been a professional investor for over 30 years like Mike has, and putting out such an obviously false claim, that makes me take the rest of his assertions with a proper grain of salt.
Exactly, “I lIkE tO ExPlIn ThInGs tO PeOpLe lIkE ThEyRe 3Rd GrAdErS” Pomp simply believes that Bitcoin is the ONLY crypto currency out there, why are there no discussions about Alts being superior to bitcoin? Bitcoin played a role to introduce us to Crypto and have these conversations about future of finance, but it is definitely not superior to other projects. First bitcoin is going to uproot evil banking system, now bitcoin is going to moon because banks and politicians own it.
@@anthonycarrillo16 Bitcoin does have all the problems mike pointed out but plenty of alts don't and have inherent value to the world everyone can see.
@@anthonycarrillo16 Bitcoin is the only decentralized non-fiat crypto there is...that's why it's superior to alt coins which are all centralized to some degree. Bitcoin has value for its fundamental attributes...not what Mr. Market says the price is in terms of fiat dollars.
Successful people don't become that way overnight. What most people see at a glance-wealth, a great career, purpose - is the result of hard work and hustle over time
People come here with the aim of chasing money more than knowledge and that will damage your progress, trust me. Chase knowledge first and I promise! The money will follow you just like it's following some of us now
@@Stewiehleba yeah its so accountable that its never been audited and rejects attempts to do so. Not sure where you get your info but it doesn't check with reality
@@Stewiehleba No, they aren't. Alan Greenspan stated that publicly and you can look it up on UA-cam. Our government gets to pick the chairman and that's it. It's an unregulated private body and any other influence is feigned. The only thing that Congress could do, to r"egulate" the Fed, is to decide not to use them, completely, by deciding to use our Treasury to print our own money, which was the original intent. We could create our own money, but chose to borrow it, at interest, from a group of private banks.
I expected a lot more out of this to be honest. I am a big Pomp fan but he failed to address on merit many of the "facts" brought up by Mike. Instead he kept on talking about his vision for bitcoin or repeatedly stating how misinformed Mike's vision was, without really stating why.
I’m glad you acknowledged how bad at debating that Pomp guy was. All he did was claimed the other guy was saying things that he never said and then swerved every question put to him. His smug arrogance was very off-putting, as well.
@@businesspartners619 Dumb it down for Mike? Mike offered sophisticated technical criticisms of the Bitcoin blockchain, and Pomp couldn't even respond to it, with the excuse of "making the debate understandable to a 5 year old". what??
@@bgbusiness_ Only if you believe that USA government has the right to starve and punish Iranian and NK people by denying them access to international finance and markets. National sieges only reward and solidify those regimes. 70 years of practice stands as absolute proof. There is no reasonable debate left about the matter. The results are in. Get with the program. Logic stands on initial assumptions that the logic can not prove. Internally consistent logical construction is easy to make. Are his assumption correct? He starts from "USA has the right to siege foreign nations." No. That mos def is not correct.
Yep. He just brings up the usual concerns with crypto. All the other guy does is attacking the person instead of the arguments while making none but speculative claims. Comes off more of a crazed cultist.
Anthony sure did a great job of explaining it to three-year-olds. The rest of us would love to see less scorning laughs and more heavily grounded arguments from Anthony. Great debate, great performance from both although Mike is the clear winner in my opinion, even though I would love to see Anthony prevail here
Early on, he ignored the moderator’s request to explain for laymen what Mike meant by an “empty block” attack, nor did he refute the possibility. I thought a lot of Pomp’s responses were non sequiturs.
We need more thoughtful conversations like this where both sides can clearly articulate their perspective while not interrupting each other. Well done!
Pomp has a lot of skin in the game. He doesn’t address many of mike’s points head-on. Bitcoin, at this point, is all about risk management and pomp’s views tend to ignore risk management in general.
He actually specifically addresses this a few different times in other podcasts. His reasoning is that he's young and capable of recovering even if this bet goes to zero. Can't fault his logic there.
pretty much how i felt about the debate. Pomp seemed very emotional. We cannot discount the possibility that the US govt will ban bitcoin transactions. It is definitely on the table. Pomp kept saying that Mike was advocating for banning it, when he clearly isn't, especially if you've listened to his other interviews. At the same time, i don't see a world where crypto completely disappears. We need to be ready for when the revolution happens. It is coming.
@@MrReconjon having 80% in one asset is a bias and affects anything u say. So shuld public take him seriously, I don't think so. He is gambling bcoz he is young and not investing.
@@varunsahlot I absolutely agree that anyone in any situation should be taken with a grain of salt especially if there is clear incentive for their behavior. That being said making a highly concentrated allocation also shows a high level of conviction at least for the short term from someone closer to the industry than ourselves. Words and actions. Take it all for what you will and make your own choices accordingly. If I were to tell you that I'm 80 percent commodities and producers, 5 percent growth and 15 percent cash would that make me un credible? Or would it just show you how serious I am when I say I'm confident that the system is very shaky and I believe that they are going to inflate or bust. I'd argue that me saying that would be taken more seriously than me being in a 60/40 and saying the same thing.
@@G8tr1522 the US govt cannot and will not ban bitcoin... it has far too much risk as a democratic republic and reputational risk if they had to do it, they should have tried it (and then eventually have to rescind it) years ago..
Actually not a clickbait title. Both Anthony and Mike are really articulate and calmly discuss their point of views and the moderator actually knows how to moderate properly. Didn´t expect to see such a simple yet brilliant discussion here on youtube, thanks for the upload.
The debate was moderated professionally yes, but pomp was absolutely terrible at defending himself, insulting Mike emotionally and could not remain levelheaded either.
@@cryptorio1570 Right now, Bitcoin is a textbook Ponzi scheme: It has no intrinsic value. You can’t eat it, wear it, or heat your house with it. ... It is not a productive asset. It’s not a factory that produces an item. ... It has zero underlying value. None. ... It has minimal utility. ... Its value is solely derived from the trust that the price will continue to rise indefinitely. ...
@@tmo2798 Right now, Gold is a textbook Ponzi scheme: It has no intrinsic value. You can’t eat it, wear it, or heat your house with it. ... It is not a productive asset. It’s not a factory that produces an item. ... It has zero underlying value. None. ... It has minimal utility. ... Its value is solely derived from the trust that the price will continue to rise indefinitely. ...
Might be the best debate I have heard on any subject. Both were respectful of the other, did not interrupt and shared their message with passion. Because of the above formula, I learned from both debaters (while being firmly with one side).
"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks", That's what Satoshi said on that Genesis block of the Bitcoin network, Not sure he imagined the second far larger wave of quantitative easing in this last year!
Really ? I hate it. If your going to be hostile and take jabs at people have a spine and do it bluntly. Taking passive aggressive jabs is weak and spineless. I have zero respect for people who behave that way.
lol this guy Pomp. The fact that you worked as a Product Manager for 1 year in Facebook does not make you a technical figure. To prove that you did not debate the argument mentioning the node attacks, which I found very interesting
James koury...Take my advice (Don't Trade) buy or hold for years then get retired. You don't want all the stress and crazyness involved in trading. Don't believe the is formula.
This was a fantastic debate and actually the best anti-bitcoin debater, I have ever seen. He did the best job of anyone so far talking about doubts and real world possibilities of failure.
That's not what he said. He said that the NYSE is an exchange where you trade against a counterparty rather than against the exchange itself. It is a distinction without a difference since market makers still exist in the NYSE and have institutional advantages over the retail trader, so it is still trading "against the house" in a manner of speaking.
Ash Bennington is by far the best interviewer for complex subjects. All the pieces he moderates on Real Vision are top class. I re-upped my subscription to RV to follow his series on Crypto.
I've seen both this debate and the Saylor vs Giustra debate and it was interesting to see how different and informative the two debates were. Mike is very well-spoken, very cultivated, civilized and not easily provoked, whereas Pomp was rather disrespectful and made attacks personal by employing words like ridiculous, absurd and hysterical in discrediting Mike's beliefs, and smirked rather frequently. It felt more like he was looking for an argument rather than a debate. One enlightening thing that he said however was how the stock market is actually lower than it was way before if we priced it at the value of gold. Moderator also did a great job keeping the heat at bay. Really insightful show overall.
Robert Kiyosaki says, “ there’s 3 sides to every coin; there’s a head, a tail, and a edge. True learning occurs when you stand on the edge and see both sides.” This video displays that 100%. Thanks RealVision!
haha That's how you know he lost the argument. Can't imagine a more dishonest statement from a guy who clearly knows the difference. Not a big Pomp guy, but this was an easy debate to win. Mike Green's argument was basically, "bitcoin is scary"lol. It's no more or less speculative than gold. Any person who follows the two assets knows this. Great debate between two bright men all the same.
@@settledown5392 Settle Down needing to settle down himself. Mike's argument is to think for yourself and consider what the return of this asset could be in Pomp's hypothetical future. Nobody knows and nobody could figure that out.
@@TheWeastBeast I'm perfectly calm sir. That was one of his points he made.....and probably the best. The repetitive stuff about China, Russia, Iran couldn't be more intellectually dishonest though, along with him saying war is not an economic interest lol. Great debate either way, from two intelligent guys..... but Mike looked like an MSNBC shill to some degree here.
Not so much that Mike won as Pomp lost. Never been impressed with Pomp's reasoning in prior talks and hesitated to watch this due to low expectations he met again.
I'm going to say Mr. Green is the winner here, IMO. mostly because of his unflappable nature in the face of silly, nonsensical attacks by Pomp. Also Green raises important points about cyrptos vulnerability to regulation and taxation as well as more.
Despite being on Pomps side, I agree. But rather than having proven his arguements right, Mike just proved to be unmatched as intellect and knowledge. He should have debated someone more knowledgeable in the matter.
The only thing of interest that Mike mentioned that I had to research is the st. petersburg paradox. Mike's arguments just didn't make logical sense to me. Is there risk in investing in bitcoin? Yes, but there seems to be much less risk in bitcoin than there is risk in not putting store of value in bitcoin.
Bitcoin was not to be a store of value it was meant for P2P transactions. Plain and simple the Fed's control BTC, he who control's the liquidity control's the game.
@@etishbite456 wait so you can't do transactions on BTC? Guess I'd better go delete the ones that I did fictional edit: oh, turns out the blockchain is immutable
Mike Green: Has facts, articulate thoughts, deductive reasoning Pomp: You are wrong because i FEEL like you're wrong!! BTC 1 milli by 2025, you DON'T think there's at least a 1% chance of this?!!
I think Mike doesn't really understand the full nature of decentralization though. It isn't just decentralization of miners, but decentralization of protocol resulting in altcoins. We have already witnessed this defense in the Bitcoin Cash community when Craig Wright tried to take over the network with superior hash power and resources. I do agree that Mike Green seems to understand the technical and political aspects better than Pomp, so he wins this debate in my view. However, I still disagree with Mike for reasons not brought up in the debate.
I understand the argument that a non economic actor could destroy Bitcoin to harm those who hold it. But in fact the economical miners and nodes could just throw that hash power out of the network. That’s the beauty of being decentralized.
Hello everyone I thank Mr Carlton Jefferson for his super strategy for helping me be a better trader , he helped me grow my $700 investment to $9000 Mr Carlton we need more men like you in these world and it will surely be a better place for any support
Im really excited about blockchain technology but we need people like Mike to address possible concerns. Does anyone else see flaws with crypto/blockchain?
Pomp came across as a bully IMO. His take on wealth inequality is completely off and bitcoin is NOT going to solve it. Money laundering using dollars is understood, using bitcoin not so much, dont think Pomp addressed that. He quietly ignored that whole point, maybe its too technical. Would like to hear more on that.
Pomp is a bitcoin maximalist who actually thinks bitcoin will overtake the dollar, when in reality, bitcoin is just an extension of the global USD money supply.
Mike doesn’t understand Bitcoin fully yet. Bitcoin is a better form of Gold and not a substitute for the fiat System. It’s not easy to understand and we shouldn’t be ignorant about the potential dangers that Mike is talking about.
@@prula Which part is he not understanding? He’s discussing the societal, regulatory, macro, and institutional side of bitcoin. These are all areas that bitcoin maximalists ignore. For now, the miners dominate bitcoin and it’s still very slow and expensive and too volatile for any central bank to denominate its currency in.
@@grapplerke For example he doesn’t understand the difference between nodes and miners. He doesn’t understand the decentralized nature of Bitcoin and that a bad actor can be easily detected and thrown out of the chain by the majority of actors who are economically incentivized. You can transfer 100 Billionen worth of Bitcoin around the world with final settlement in 30 minutes for 30 dollars. When Germany repatriated their gold it took 2 years and cost millions of dollars. You are right that Bitcoin is too slow to buy a coffee. Nobody wants to wait 10 minutes until the transaction is settled
@@prula Majority of the mining is already done in China. Theoretically all of the miners could be captured by the state and be enough for a 51% attack. Bitcoin is not as decentralized as you would like to believe it is. And still today, the transactional volume used for bitcoin for actual purchases of goods and services have not gone up from 2017. Bitcoin is more like a deflationary digital gold with a tech growth stock flavor to it. Bitcoin had a chance to become more like a digital currency, however, the miners and OGs wanted to their share to appreciate and for the miners to make a lot from the fees, and that’s why we have the bitcoin we have today. Bitcoin still has more to go up, but the last and late comers will get their butts handed to them and lose everything. I’m posting as someone who’s sat next to all the OG crypto folks and made out a lot from trading crypto. I still hold a little, but institutional money has always been the dumb money in new markets. I’ll be entering bitcoin again after the next combined bitcoin bear cycle and the macro bear market super cycle.
easy statement to make provided one accepts that an economic interest is not the same thing to everyone. While war may be a positive economic interest for a select few, it easily is a greater negative economic interest for many others, often an order of magnitude greater numbers. To view it as a simple black and white matter is an issue.
Stock are crashing bitcoin investment right now will be at every wise individual's list. In a month you'll be ecstatic with the decision you made today.
Excellent work! Thanks for bringing such a high quality content. As investor I still prefere to buy artificially supressed physical gold and silver instead of overhyped and overheated BTC. However I might consider to allocate 1% into BTC, but only during the liqudity event, when everybody is forced to sell.
If set of all investors pays certain fee to miners, doesn't that mean investors (in total) will always be in loss? How can investors gain their money back that they lost to miners' fee, other than from other investors?
Absolutely amazing I was unaware two people with opposing views could participate in a grown up conversation and take turns in speaking what a fantastic and informative debate I’m team Pomp all day but Mike had some very interesting views and happy to hear them. It’s a shame we live in a world where the politicians are unable to engage in a debate this way
@@Nick_Chanas totally i think this opinion comes from peoples reaction to the growth that ignites after war. suppliers of military equipment do well though everyone else doesn't
Completely agree. Anthony came out the gate with his “approach it at a 3rd grade level..as to avoid an intellectual slight of hand”...then proceeds with (as you said) ad hominem and straw-man techniques. This is how 90% of people here in Seattle communicate...about everything..big or petty. I’m so tired of these types of “conversations” and can’t recall the last time I witnessed a forthright discussion. I tapped out of this one at 40 min.
I'd love to see Mike Green and Jeff Booth do one on the future of jobs, Mike made some solid points but I'm not certain he's really thought through the deflationary effects of technology on our economy and the future implications of how "livings" may be made, and for his part I think Jeff would massively benefit from further insight on how society may bridge the monetary policy to the technology society of excess that we are careening towards.
Wow Mike really blows Pomp out of the water here. And Pomp helps him all the way. Definitely need Raoul or Saylor on the pro-Bitcoin side next time to really flesh out these issues and actually respond to Mike’s points
Amazing debate, one of the best I have watched on the topic. Thanks guys! I give it to Pomp, Mike had great arguments, but less great counters, Pomp had both in my view.
Pomp may be right or he might also not be. Not what I ultimately saw. Green clearly was the more polished debater and kept ruffling Pomp’s feathers without even trying. Frustration was oozing from Pomp’s screen. His lack of composure hurt his credibility. Also, who invests over 90% of their net worth on a speculative asset? He’s all in and not hedging for any risk.
@@HenryPaulThe3rd if it's 'crypto' then it's not THAT insane (as tech has proved to be the big winner = even in the S&P). What will be insane is if he's portfolio is 96% 'BTC'. That's indeed portfolio suicide.
@@HenryPaulThe3rd lol that ppl are making whole salaries off. Some that are persistent become millionaires within a few years. I've worked a 9-5, invested in stocks etc so if crypto is digital beanie babies then someone please feed me some hahaha
TIMESTAMPS:
00:01:19 Opening Statement: Green
00:07:55 Opening Statement: Pomp
00:13:07 Nefarious Activity and Transparency
00:23:26 Who Controls Bitcoin? Should It Be Banned?
00:35:23 Are There Benefits of Bitcoin to the US?
00:46:30 Exposure to Bitcoin in an Unpredictable Future
00:52:19 Can Bitcoin Be Successfully Attacked?
00:59:41 Is Wide Spread Adoption Likely?
01:11:44 Final Thoughts
🔥 𝗚𝗘𝗧 𝟳 𝗗𝗔𝗬𝗦 of Real Vision Premium access & insights for only $𝟭 (seriously!) rvtv.io/RVfor1dollar
Mike has a strong bias, but weak analytical abilities.
Someone mentioned Andreas antanopolis , he would have eaten Mike for breakfast pomp is great but he is more about the asset where as bitcoin and the Genesis block is a direct attack on the banks and we all support it that is why we are investing and getting those around us to do the same .... the current global currency’s are debt based !?!? And can’t get out of that debt ..?? For many reasons Bitcoin is here and we will do all we can to keep it here . Pomp was silly to ignore the Genesis block and why it was created , honesty is needed . This is for our freedom 🔱 the banks and their friends have had many hundreds of years of dominance and war .... this is the last war ! Bitcoin is a fork for society and it’s been decided to be implemented ✌️💚☯️🔱🤿 viva la revolution
Shame Pomp didn't answer why China is blocking free Internet for its citizens but in not blocking BTC.
@Andre Anyone wow it's like we both watched different podcast.
it wasnt a guide
I vote this moderator for all future political debates in addition to financial ones. Fantastic work.
Both participants were respectful, didnt interupt each other even doe they disagree. Moderator was not even needed.
@@aljosanovak3539 I would guess the participants behavior would’ve been different without the presence of a moderator
100%
Notice the type of companies buying Bitcon with their cash versus those buying up their own stock. So we should all sell our stocks and hand over our cash to someone who is selling us their Bitcon? Why are they selling?
Rob Solton, I watch your channel all the time bro. Keep it up!
This dude was a fantastic moderator.
Yeah he was great
Totally agree. Am very much impressed as well. Wish we would have similar characters in mainstream media.
100% agreed. And so was Pomp...
Few debates were I come away respecting all parties involved, high quality thinking
Astute way of keeping the debaters from losing face and showing higher ground...excellent.
What this had made me do is to look up more of Mike Green's opinion. I love listening to smart articulate people who are against bitcoin. Too many vids on youtube are simply in an echo chamber. It is important to listen to the other side
Except he was lying through his teeth.
In a system where only the wealthy can grow is an absolute non sense. In this system an engineer (myself) need to be a real estate agent or a trader and invest so that my savings don't loose value. It's might be easy for a person like me. But for a person who earns daily wage to eat daily to keep up with their daily spending cannot be expected to do this.
Ah yes, it is in fact refreshing to hear someone agree with your perspective isn’t it?
It is refreshing to hear people of different opinions have an actual conversation and bring solid points to the table... such a rare thing today.
No you're wrong, that's racist.
.
@@50kT LOL
😂
@@50kT Lol
👏 👏 👏
I’d love to see a Michael Saylor and Mike Green debate.
@Andre Anyone I would say Green is a payed propaganda tool.
Question: What is your view on Bitcoin?
Answer Green: It is an evil tool used by Iran, Russia and China to sell drugs to American babies and stop us from bombing countries to keep the MIC going.
Mike ate this guy up with objective data that I would have loved to hear refuted, instead of defensive soundbites. I hope Anthony is right because I have a lot to lose, but he's too emotionally fragile to defend. Get Saylor!
I would like to see Michael Saylor vs Noriel Rubini
NO,,, too many analogies for me to handle....
It’s be a blood bath, poor mike.
Timestamp Summary
01:25 - Background & Opening
7:00 - BTC is Anti-USD?
12:30 - Should we ban BTC?
17:10 - is BTC China controlled?
23:00 - Mike rebuttals
52:00 - 51% Attack on BTC
59:00 - 1% exposure vs CBDC/Gold
01:05:00 - BTC is Monopoly game
Some timestamps got deleted while editing, sorry.
Thank you!
Imagine presidential debates were as civilized as this by even a fraction?
Imagine one where at least one of the candidates wasn’t a narcissistic sociopath lol
@TrollMaster Fictitious Fables of Europa oh hey man :)
Mr. Green looked bored even.
Yea, but there was a ton of "shade" being thrown. They just sounded civil. lol
Imagine if we had unbiased media period.
"I don't see China shutting down miners..."
Lol that aged well.
Time hack your quotes man.
That did not age well bro🤣
I laughed out loud at 42min 36sec.
I think both are right, bitcoin will never be the world currency however, at the end of consumer capitalism and the ensued subscription based economic system will ensure that deflationary assets will be out of reach for those can't afford to be financially independent!
Ha Ha.
These guys will buy Bitcoin at 250000.
@@Stentz1 250 000 yuan, MAYBE. Bitcoin is an obvious scam.
They did it because they have a power crisis, not because they don't like bitcoin.
I must say I love the fact, that they actually let the counterpart SPEAK. They take notes and then react in a civil manner. I would love to see this in the politics debate so much! Kudos for all of them!
Most of my assets are in crypto but I don’t like how Pomp was being so accusatory and sensational in this debate. He put a lot of words in Mike’s mouth.
yep. I heard the same.
I heard the same.
I wouldn't trust Pomp to hold 1 cent of mine.
He's very easily triggered by people who don't agree with him.
But as I watched more, the other guy was pretty patronizing. So I can't blame him
Pomp comes out as a generic story investor who has his entire portfolio in bitcoin and "save the world" kind of investments and gets triggered with people who don't share his same views. Mike on the other hand is just China/Russia/Iran fear mongering.
Mike "I wouldn't trust Michael Saylor but I trust regulators" Green. Smart guy, but hopelessly cynical. Stockholm Syndrome at its finest
It’s a rare debate that all three participants are well informed, civil, and have respect for one another. I have shared with everyone I know who are bitcoin and/or gold investors.
No actually Mike is misinformed and I think just making up data
@@mickeydrago9401 what data?
aaaaah, I don't know what you were watching. Pomp acted like a child
@@quantum_ocean Pomp could not answer the 7 billion dollar question as well
Mike did a great job, but Pomp did a horrible job. Sounds like he never heard of or thought about the issues raised by Mike. The BTC community is completely filled with people like Pomp. The arguments have changed so much for BTC "Money -> Currency -> Digital Gold -> Store of Value" and now its a "protocol." The psychology of this market is too reminiscent of a bubble to be investable, but its certainly fun to watch.
Pomp is HODLing so hard he won’t even buy himself a decent internet connection and audio set up
Lol
🤣 give him a break he just moved to Miami I think
The hodling is the actual problem with crypto. If there is no trading in long and shorts, bitcoin will experince the same thing that happened to gamestop. Lots of bagholders and they are not going to be the ones who know how markets work. Not everybody can just hodl, what happens when theres no new suckers coming in anymore? A stock needs buying to go up, but it can fall on its own.
Hahahahah
So freaking annoying.
Thank you Pomp and Mike. The moderator was excellent. The argument was educative. Thank u Real Vision ....
Fantastic debate. Enjoyed the passions of both guests. Less personal attacks would have been more civilised.
Pomp schooled him
Bitcoin maxis tend to be very emotional, hence the ad hominem attacks arent surprising.
Thanks for the feedback, for tips, support and guidance on stocks, cryptocurrency and assets
Pomp is a turnoff...
@@OldManNutcakez And yet it amusingly all started with a money manager - who is asserting understanding of technology if only to impeach it - claiming someone else (who worked at a technology firm for years) isn't a technologist is the classic ad hominem. Nocoiners tend to become emotional when they're busy implicitly shorting one of the greatest technologies ever created.
Can't argue with the fact that Mike is really articulate.
That's about it.
Understatement. This is a policy matter and not a money making opportunity.
Anonymous outsourcing of finance and banking?
What could go wrong??
His ideas and way of looking at things are a bit weird.
@@marktube5732 At least he's not as bluepilled a Pomp
My favorite articulation of Anthony’s:
“Mike likes to use sleight of hand and insults when he’s backed into a corner.
I’m not like Mike and I’m not going to do that.
And I DO know technology and how it works, because I was once employed by a tech company.”
My ex-girlfriend used to work for JetBlue as an IT manager. She didn’t know a thing about jet engines.
I once worked for an architectural firm. I was the janitor. Would you like me to design your next house?
Although this debate is indeed civilized and well-moderated, I must say that Pompliano is not really engaging Mike Green's specific arguments. Instead, he is destroying a strawman of his own making.
BITCOIN IS THE ONLY TRUE DEMOCRACY
EVER EXISTS IN THE WORLD
Mrs clara
Wow you really get it
This is basically every BTC supporter
Incorrect. He is saying that despite ANY argument against bitcoin, the answer is not to ban bitcoin and leaving america behind... There are plenty of micro arguments, but only one true argument is debatable. Do we embrace this technology, or get left behind?
Look... every single person I know wants the central bank to stop printing money. So it's not simply about communicating our preferences. They won't stop printing. So our way to communicate is to opt out of the system!
buying precious metals, buying crypto I do not necessarily believe is ultimately opting out of the system. You can't really opt out lest you completely unplug from the system. At best, crypto and precious metals and other vehicles are merely ways to guard ones wealth from the ravages of the system .... not really opting out. You can't, as of yet and it will be resisted strongly, be paid in these forms, to transact in these forms full out. Best you can do is secure your wealth, ideally, redeem it for other forms of currency in order to engage in other transactions. The day may come where one does not need to redeem these alternatives stores of value before preforming basic, standard transactions, but I do not see that day as today.
If one wants to communicate their displeasure at the destruction of the dollar, one needs to communicate this with those they elect. Unless this occurs, there is no incentive otherwise to act unless the crash of the system forces action .... and in that case, chances are those elected will not correct for the original error, but will double down on poor central planning and ensure greater future pains. Politicians are responsive to pressure. We see this in Covid. With a recall petition with over 2 million votes, all of a sudden the Governor of California is beginning to 'see' the science which now warrants changes in executive orders. It is funny how science all of a sudden seems to present itself that certain restrictions by government mandate are no longer necessary when the populace applies pressure.
Don't wait for the 'right' people to populate the positions which impact us ..... make the system preform no matter who is in those positions.
They can`t stop printing now. The system will fail and fall immediately.
So true! Halleluja!
I promise you they don’t actually want what they’re asking for. It would be a bloodbath
Outstanding discussion... Extremely well moderated. I'm a Bitcoin investor and 35 year trader. Mike Green's perspective is powerful and necessary. Great job to all three participants!
Got zil port happy with passive income
I tend to think of the US gov as the enemy, so even if mike is right, im a moonboy.
I feel like such a fish out of water anytime either of them speaks I get persuaded to their position
If set of all investors pays certain fee to miners, doesn't that mean investors (in total) will always be in loss? How can investors gain their money back that they lost to miners' fee, other than from other investors?
@@goranmilic442 are you talking in the context of 'investors' being people that hold btc directly?
Great to see adults discuss BIG issues in a calm manner. Well done Mike and Pomp, oh and Ash for keeping it all cool and useful.
Mike Green did great composing himself....with all of Pomp’s insults.
to be fair, they both insult each other.
@@JorgePerez-ui2qp Sure, but it definitely seemed that Pomp went after Green more than the other direction.
Absolutely. I couldn’t take Pomp seriously with all the unnecessary childish, passive aggressive digs.
I understand no one was yelling over each other or whatever, but people seriously take this guy seriously at all?
This debate is gold, textbook example of how a mature conversation should be.
I thought Pomp was kind of childish
Except Pomp evading marks argument and personally attacking him
@@dualfluidreactor His basis for every reply was "Well people are buying it!"
Lol mature? Hardly. When you personally bash people in your statements, I wouldn't consider that mature. Saying Micheal Saylor is not someone to accept life advice from because he's invested in Bitcoin is absurd. Especially since Micheal is extremely intellectually inclined.
I would say this debate is Bitcoin 😊
Mike: War is not an economic interest.
Military Industrial Complex: Am I a joke to you?
Military industrial complex, probably the single most pertinent factor influencing countries to forsake ethics and morality in favour of economic gain...
Was thinking the same thing...If you've been a professional investor for over 30 years like Mike has, and putting out such an obviously false claim, that makes me take the rest of his assertions with a proper grain of salt.
I don't think he is talking about the war you are thinking of. Probably more of currency war.
Am I wrong or isn't literally every single war centered around economic needs
You’re confusing economic and strategic
Pomp attacks Mike rather than his arguments. That is a shame. Mike made some solid points which would benefit us all to explore rather than ignore.
Absolutely right, Pomp made it personal- big disappointment--
Exactly, “I lIkE tO ExPlIn ThInGs tO PeOpLe lIkE ThEyRe 3Rd GrAdErS” Pomp simply believes that Bitcoin is the ONLY crypto currency out there, why are there no discussions about Alts being superior to bitcoin? Bitcoin played a role to introduce us to Crypto and have these conversations about future of finance, but it is definitely not superior to other projects. First bitcoin is going to uproot evil banking system, now bitcoin is going to moon because banks and politicians own it.
@@anthonycarrillo16 Bitcoin does have all the problems mike pointed out but plenty of alts don't and have inherent value to the world everyone can see.
@@anthonycarrillo16 Bitcoin is the only decentralized non-fiat crypto there is...that's why it's superior to alt coins which are all centralized to some degree. Bitcoin has value for its fundamental attributes...not what Mr. Market says the price is in terms of fiat dollars.
agree. might Mike know someone at NSA?
The secret of your future is hidden in your daily routine. Successful people do daily what the unsuccessful only do occasionally
Successful people don't become that way overnight. What most people see at a glance-wealth, a great career, purpose - is the result of hard work and hustle over time
The amount of time you spend believing we can't is more than enough time to learn how you can
@@hannahforex09 yeah! I agree with you
People come here with the aim of chasing money more than knowledge and that will damage your progress, trust me. Chase knowledge first and I promise! The money will follow you just like it's following some of us now
@@selimkurtoglu6418 that's very correct sir!! And that is why most of them end up losing they money to scammers
We already outsource our monetary system using the"Federal" Reserve.
Self appointed and uncontrolled by countries, Greenspan said it himself, there is no authority to which they report to
A (very) private corporation since 1913. Could that happen today?
The Fed is created by, accountable to, and under the purview of Congress.
@@Stewiehleba yeah its so accountable that its never been audited and rejects attempts to do so. Not sure where you get your info but it doesn't check with reality
@@Stewiehleba No, they aren't. Alan Greenspan stated that publicly and you can look it up on UA-cam. Our government gets to pick the chairman and that's it. It's an unregulated private body and any other influence is feigned.
The only thing that Congress could do, to r"egulate" the Fed, is to decide not to use them, completely, by deciding to use our Treasury to print our own money, which was the original intent. We could create our own money, but chose to borrow it, at interest, from a group of private banks.
Pomp has such a childish way of arguing. Too much mud slinging, too few arguments.
No actual answers you ever notice how a question is answered with speculative theory?
That's because he can't argue the points.
In fact I was surprised about that, he didn't mentioned how many billions are needed to reverse the network.
amen
He s a buttcoin shill
Mike is a legend. Last 20min insane
I expected a lot more out of this to be honest.
I am a big Pomp fan but he failed to address on merit many of the "facts" brought up by Mike. Instead he kept on talking about his vision for bitcoin or repeatedly stating how misinformed Mike's vision was, without really stating why.
I'm not that surprised. Pomp is a smart guy but still pretty young and def part-PUMP.
He had to dumb it down for Mike.
I thought he did a great job discrediting mikes ideas. Pomp offered facts mike offered only his opinion
I’m glad you acknowledged how bad at debating that Pomp guy was. All he did was claimed the other guy was saying things that he never said and then swerved every question put to him.
His smug arrogance was very off-putting, as well.
@@businesspartners619 Dumb it down for Mike? Mike offered sophisticated technical criticisms of the Bitcoin blockchain, and Pomp couldn't even respond to it, with the excuse of "making the debate understandable to a 5 year old". what??
Crypto holder and ill say Mike made some very persuasive arguments.
Same. I think he was pretty logical and I did agree some certain parts of his viewpoints although I am bitcoin believer.
@@bgbusiness_
Only if you believe that USA government has the right to starve and punish Iranian and NK people by denying them access to international finance and markets. National sieges only reward and solidify those regimes. 70 years of practice stands as absolute proof. There is no reasonable debate left about the matter. The results are in. Get with the program.
Logic stands on initial assumptions that the logic can not prove. Internally consistent logical construction is easy to make. Are his assumption correct? He starts from "USA has the right to siege foreign nations." No. That mos def is not correct.
Soap... yes , I felt the same.
@soap which argument? Care to explain?😂😂😂
Yep. He just brings up the usual concerns with crypto. All the other guy does is attacking the person instead of the arguments while making none but speculative claims. Comes off more of a crazed cultist.
Anthony sure did a great job of explaining it to three-year-olds. The rest of us would love to see less scorning laughs and more heavily grounded arguments from Anthony. Great debate, great performance from both although Mike is the clear winner in my opinion, even though I would love to see Anthony prevail here
The laughs made me catious of him
Word!
Early on, he ignored the moderator’s request to explain for laymen what Mike meant by an “empty block” attack, nor did he refute the possibility. I thought a lot of Pomp’s responses were non sequiturs.
@@SteveHolmlund He just didnt had any arguments
Mike was more confident, and his explanations make sense to me!
We need more thoughtful conversations like this where both sides can clearly articulate their perspective while not interrupting each other. Well done!
yeah i love it when people who are arguing against eachother sre lisening
Pomp has a lot of skin in the game. He doesn’t address many of mike’s points head-on. Bitcoin, at this point, is all about risk management and pomp’s views tend to ignore risk management in general.
He actually specifically addresses this a few different times in other podcasts. His reasoning is that he's young and capable of recovering even if this bet goes to zero. Can't fault his logic there.
pretty much how i felt about the debate. Pomp seemed very emotional. We cannot discount the possibility that the US govt will ban bitcoin transactions. It is definitely on the table.
Pomp kept saying that Mike was advocating for banning it, when he clearly isn't, especially if you've listened to his other interviews.
At the same time, i don't see a world where crypto completely disappears. We need to be ready for when the revolution happens. It is coming.
@@MrReconjon having 80% in one asset is a bias and affects anything u say. So shuld public take him seriously, I don't think so. He is gambling bcoz he is young and not investing.
@@varunsahlot I absolutely agree that anyone in any situation should be taken with a grain of salt especially if there is clear incentive for their behavior. That being said making a highly concentrated allocation also shows a high level of conviction at least for the short term from someone closer to the industry than ourselves. Words and actions. Take it all for what you will and make your own choices accordingly. If I were to tell you that I'm 80 percent commodities and producers, 5 percent growth and 15 percent cash would that make me un credible? Or would it just show you how serious I am when I say I'm confident that the system is very shaky and I believe that they are going to inflate or bust. I'd argue that me saying that would be taken more seriously than me being in a 60/40 and saying the same thing.
@@G8tr1522 the US govt cannot and will not ban bitcoin... it has far too much risk as a democratic republic and reputational risk if they had to do it, they should have tried it (and then eventually have to rescind it) years ago..
Actually not a clickbait title. Both Anthony and Mike are really articulate and calmly discuss their point of views and the moderator actually knows how to moderate properly. Didn´t expect to see such a simple yet brilliant discussion here on youtube, thanks for the upload.
The debate was moderated professionally yes, but pomp was absolutely terrible at defending himself, insulting Mike emotionally and could not remain levelheaded either.
The best debate I've seen in recent times.. Will be great to come back to this in 2030
Lol! Come back in 5 to 10 years tops. Crypto and bitcoin are NOT going away.
That is the only way to settle the argument !
@@cryptorio1570 Right now, Bitcoin is a textbook Ponzi scheme:
It has no intrinsic value. You can’t eat it, wear it, or heat your house with it. ...
It is not a productive asset. It’s not a factory that produces an item. ...
It has zero underlying value. None. ...
It has minimal utility. ...
Its value is solely derived from the trust that the price will continue to rise indefinitely. ...
@@tmo2798 Right now, Gold is a textbook Ponzi scheme:
It has no intrinsic value. You can’t eat it, wear it, or heat your house with it. ...
It is not a productive asset. It’s not a factory that produces an item. ...
It has zero underlying value. None. ...
It has minimal utility. ...
Its value is solely derived from the trust that the price will continue to rise indefinitely. ...
I would like to have a more intellectual no coiner instead of this Mike guy.
Might be the best debate I have heard on any subject. Both were respectful of the other, did not interrupt and shared their message with passion. Because of the above formula, I learned from both debaters (while being firmly with one side).
Couldn't agree more!
Pomp was not respectful, putting words and claims into Mike's mouth.
Let’s talk about the cash that got dumped into the Iraq war and promptly disappeared and the trillions sent to central banks in 2008.
The Genesis block of the Bitcoin Network by Satoshi is now a historical marker of 2008 and the failure you mention...
"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks",
That's what Satoshi said on that Genesis block of the Bitcoin network, Not sure he imagined the second far larger wave of quantitative easing in this last year!
Your section of opinion with 2 replies was wisdom I distasteful gained. Sadly grateful.
I love an argument that is fundamentally civil but contains enough reciprocal barbs and subtle personal hostility to make it interesting.
Nicely put.
Really ? I hate it. If your going to be hostile and take jabs at people have a spine and do it bluntly. Taking passive aggressive jabs is weak and spineless. I have zero respect for people who behave that way.
lol this guy Pomp. The fact that you worked as a Product Manager for 1 year in Facebook does not make you a technical figure. To prove that you did not debate the argument mentioning the node attacks, which I found very interesting
If Pomp had been a little more respectful and a bit less emotional it would've truly been the perfect debate on this subject.
Mike Green is so emotionally uninvolved in this debate. Amazing resilience
Exactly. To me, once you start attacking your opponent, you have lost...
In all my years of watching him on Real Vision this is completely standard behaviour from him. He's naturally just very stoic.
@@kealgu Mike did attack pomp several times, he just did it with a poker face
i was looking for a comment like this lol
Great discussion - no talking over each other. Excellent content
Mike is unfazed by all the jabs. Guy is a boss!
A boss who is going to have fun staying poor.
Mike is way smarter than Pomp. Pomp is so bluepilled it hurts.
Mike is richer than pump pomp
Great moderating Ash!
conversation between adults is nice compared to the usual arguement
HONESTLY THE REAL SUPERSTAR OF THIS DEBATE IS THE MODERATOR. FLAWLESS MODERATION. NO CAP.
One of the more pleasant debates I've seen in a while.
We work for years only to have $1 million while some people I know put thousand of dollars in some meme coins and they are millionaires.
After watching several videos on UA-cam tutorial about trade I'm still making losses
Growing in trade requires dedication time and Patience
I have been holding for a while now, the market dynamism is really getting me uncomfortable here, I really need help deciding
James koury...Take my advice (Don't Trade) buy or hold for years then get retired. You don't want all the stress and crazyness involved in trading. Don't believe the is formula.
Get yourself a mentor or a guide
This was a fantastic debate and actually the best anti-bitcoin debater, I have ever seen. He did the best job of anyone so far talking about doubts and real world possibilities of failure.
I think Peter Schiff is the best anti-crypto debater.
Mike is very intelligent. Pomp is just pumping insults. We need a better voice For crypto than that.
I couldn't take more of Mike Green when he says the NYSE is a legit financial institution. 26:04
Hahahahahaha
That's not what he said. He said that the NYSE is an exchange where you trade against a counterparty rather than against the exchange itself. It is a distinction without a difference since market makers still exist in the NYSE and have institutional advantages over the retail trader, so it is still trading "against the house" in a manner of speaking.
Pompliano owns this.
China ban
El Salvador adoption
Gold going down
More rational and visionary arguments
Great debate.
Ash Bennington is by far the best interviewer for complex subjects. All the pieces he moderates on Real Vision are top class. I re-upped my subscription to RV to follow his series on Crypto.
One of the bests debates I've witnessed, regardless of subject.
I've seen both this debate and the Saylor vs Giustra debate and it was interesting to see how different and informative the two debates were. Mike is very well-spoken, very cultivated, civilized and not easily provoked, whereas Pomp was rather disrespectful and made attacks personal by employing words like ridiculous, absurd and hysterical in discrediting Mike's beliefs, and smirked rather frequently. It felt more like he was looking for an argument rather than a debate. One enlightening thing that he said however was how the stock market is actually lower than it was way before if we priced it at the value of gold. Moderator also did a great job keeping the heat at bay. Really insightful show overall.
Robert Kiyosaki says, “ there’s 3 sides to every coin; there’s a head, a tail, and a edge. True learning occurs when you stand on the edge and see both sides.” This video displays that 100%. Thanks RealVision!
“War is not an economic interest” 😂😂😂 Has he met the us government??
haha That's how you know he lost the argument. Can't imagine a more dishonest statement from a guy who clearly knows the difference. Not a big Pomp guy, but this was an easy debate to win. Mike Green's argument was basically, "bitcoin is scary"lol. It's no more or less speculative than gold. Any person who follows the two assets knows this. Great debate between two bright men all the same.
@@settledown5392 The dollar is speculative also if you want to be honest. Is it a great idea to be all in on the dollar? Sounds irresponsible.
@@CaptBill-rj4oe Did I say anything about "all in" on anything? Nope. Diversification is always important. That's day one of investing.
@@settledown5392 Settle Down needing to settle down himself.
Mike's argument is to think for yourself and consider what the return of this asset could be in Pomp's hypothetical future. Nobody knows and nobody could figure that out.
@@TheWeastBeast I'm perfectly calm sir. That was one of his points he made.....and probably the best. The repetitive stuff about China, Russia, Iran couldn't be more intellectually dishonest though, along with him saying war is not an economic interest lol. Great debate either way, from two intelligent guys..... but Mike looked like an MSNBC shill to some degree here.
Pomp: there is more to gain by embracing bitcoin than by attacking or avoiding it
What price do yall think btc will top out this cycle? Im thinking 160-200k
0
200k by October
113k
More or less what I'm thinking
98k
Deeply appreciate hearing this .. I am a crypto holder, but I would surprisingly say Mike won this discussion ... the discovery and journey continues
I agree, I too am a crypto holder, and mike has got me thinking.
Not so much that Mike won as Pomp lost. Never been impressed with Pomp's reasoning in prior talks and hesitated to watch this due to low expectations he met again.
We need more discussions like this. Both guys are very well spoken!
I'm going to say Mr. Green is the winner here, IMO. mostly because of his unflappable nature in the face of silly, nonsensical attacks by Pomp. Also Green raises important points about cyrptos vulnerability to regulation and taxation as well as more.
Despite being on Pomps side, I agree. But rather than having proven his arguements right, Mike just proved to be unmatched as intellect and knowledge. He should have debated someone more knowledgeable in the matter.
Pomp kept on using theory and barely any facts.
@@kennethli8 he's a cheerleader
The only thing of interest that Mike mentioned that I had to research is the st. petersburg paradox. Mike's arguments just didn't make logical sense to me. Is there risk in investing in bitcoin? Yes, but there seems to be much less risk in bitcoin than there is risk in not putting store of value in bitcoin.
Mike saying that Bitcoin's probability of long-term success is "infinitesimal" was just ridiculous.
Bitcoin was not to be a store of value it was meant for P2P transactions. Plain and simple the Fed's control BTC, he who control's the liquidity control's the game.
@@etishbite456 "was not to be" - says who, you?
@@jcantonelli1 Go read the BTC white paper it was meant for p2p transaction but that failed, so the SOV narrative took footing.
@@etishbite456 wait so you can't do transactions on BTC? Guess I'd better go delete the ones that I did
fictional edit: oh, turns out the blockchain is immutable
Mike Green: Has facts, articulate thoughts, deductive reasoning
Pomp: You are wrong because i FEEL like you're wrong!! BTC 1 milli by 2025, you DON'T think there's at least a 1% chance of this?!!
I think Mike doesn't really understand the full nature of decentralization though. It isn't just decentralization of miners, but decentralization of protocol resulting in altcoins. We have already witnessed this defense in the Bitcoin Cash community when Craig Wright tried to take over the network with superior hash power and resources. I do agree that Mike Green seems to understand the technical and political aspects better than Pomp, so he wins this debate in my view. However, I still disagree with Mike for reasons not brought up in the debate.
@@JaimeWarlock what is the answer to the 7 billion dollar quesion?
Lol, this is accurate
I understand the argument that a non economic actor could destroy Bitcoin to harm those who hold it. But in fact the economical miners and nodes could just throw that hash power out of the network. That’s the beauty of being decentralized.
yup OPEN SOURCE DUDE
Anthony focuses too much on putting words into Mikes mouth, makes him look weak.
Agree
Agree
Because he is weak.
Lot of projecting
yeah even though anthony is right, he just chose the wrong way to go about the debate.
Both these guys made their points well! Great debate. I vote for Bitcoin!
Throughout this whole conversation, Bitcoin has produced 1 block at ~10 min without caring about anyone’s opinions. We are so early. So so early.
That's slow XRP can send a trillion dollars from the US to Japan in 4 seconds.
@@frankjacquest2055 just like PayPal. Revolutionary.
I hope you do a follow up interview 20years from now.
20? How about 2...
When bitcoin is exposed as a ponzi. China had 40% of bitcoin stashed away from the beginning. Haha
Only 3 years from now would be interesting
@@ryanbruh752 wait till you find out what percentage of us bonds the Chinese own
@@se6586 the fed put a floor on bonds and the Chinese are selijg into it. That's why we have qe infinity
Anthony did a real discredit to his position by relying on so much rhetoric
...satoshi said: i have not the time to convict everyone... / time will tick off
Convict? Freudian slip much?
The leader not the lacker.old thinking is dead.
Globalization isnot about division
Why did Real Vision cut Mike off without finishing his question?
Hello everyone I thank Mr Carlton Jefferson for his super strategy for helping me be a better trader , he helped me grow my $700 investment to $9000 Mr Carlton we need more men like you in these world and it will surely be a better place for any support
Now I understand how forex makes you rich .since I started trading with Mr Carlton jefferson I think I'm on my way to millions
When it comes to bitcoin mining Carlton jefferson is the best so far, can’t stop mining bitcoin with him
I also trade with him too and also appreciate the trust built between us
Is there a way I can get in contact with him directly?
+1......,,,..6......,,,..5.......,,,..0....,,,...8.....,,....6...,,,....4....,,,..4...,,,...6...,,.........4....,,1
Ash was brilliant!
Super show. I like Pomp last though, let market/people show how all this will end. I think that best for everybody!
3 stages of a disruptive idea: Ridiculous, Dangerous, Evident - each person symbolises one of these notions in this debate and I love it
One of the best debates ever. It is one of the best reasons to suscribe to RV. Congrattssss!!
That was I very solid and gentlemen’s debate !! Congratulations to everyone!
Im really excited about blockchain technology but we need people like Mike to address possible concerns. Does anyone else see flaws with crypto/blockchain?
Nice, hard and civilized.
pomp was totally unprepared to the debate with this guy ..
Pomp came across as a bully IMO. His take on wealth inequality is completely off and bitcoin is NOT going to solve it. Money laundering using dollars is understood, using bitcoin not so much, dont think Pomp addressed that. He quietly ignored that whole point, maybe its too technical. Would like to hear more on that.
MIke's a realist : Pomp's an idealist.... there, saved ya an hour and some change
Pomp is a bitcoin maximalist who actually thinks bitcoin will overtake the dollar, when in reality, bitcoin is just an extension of the global USD money supply.
Mike doesn’t understand Bitcoin fully yet. Bitcoin is a better form of Gold and not a substitute for the fiat System. It’s not easy to understand and we shouldn’t be ignorant about the potential dangers that Mike is talking about.
@@prula Which part is he not understanding? He’s discussing the societal, regulatory, macro, and institutional side of bitcoin. These are all areas that bitcoin maximalists ignore. For now, the miners dominate bitcoin and it’s still very slow and expensive and too volatile for any central bank to denominate its currency in.
@@grapplerke For example he doesn’t understand the difference between nodes and miners. He doesn’t understand the decentralized nature of Bitcoin and that a bad actor can be easily detected and thrown out of the chain by the majority of actors who are economically incentivized. You can transfer 100 Billionen worth of Bitcoin around the world with final settlement in 30 minutes for 30 dollars. When Germany repatriated their gold it took 2 years and cost millions of dollars. You are right that Bitcoin is too slow to buy a coffee. Nobody wants to wait 10 minutes until the transaction is settled
@@prula Majority of the mining is already done in China. Theoretically all of the miners could be captured by the state and be enough for a 51% attack. Bitcoin is not as decentralized as you would like to believe it is. And still today, the transactional volume used for bitcoin for actual purchases of goods and services have not gone up from 2017. Bitcoin is more like a deflationary digital gold with a tech growth stock flavor to it.
Bitcoin had a chance to become more like a digital currency, however, the miners and OGs wanted to their share to appreciate and for the miners to make a lot from the fees, and that’s why we have the bitcoin we have today. Bitcoin still has more to go up, but the last and late comers will get their butts handed to them and lose everything.
I’m posting as someone who’s sat next to all the OG crypto folks and made out a lot from trading crypto. I still hold a little, but institutional money has always been the dumb money in new markets. I’ll be entering bitcoin again after the next combined bitcoin bear cycle and the macro bear market super cycle.
I can't believe he said, war isn't an economic interest with a straight face.
easy statement to make provided one accepts that an economic interest is not the same thing to everyone. While war may be a positive economic interest for a select few, it easily is a greater negative economic interest for many others, often an order of magnitude greater numbers. To view it as a simple black and white matter is an issue.
This is the best pro et contra debate on bitcoin to date. Absolutely brilliant.
Mike did a great job of presenting facts to support his arguments.
Pomp...not so much but he's great at rebutting points that weren't made.
Mike didn't present any fact. He made some conjectures that turned out to be false. Learn the difference between facts and conjectures.
I invested in both STOCK and CRYPTOCURRENCIES but I see crypto is doing more better and profitable to me
Bitcoin is an engineered Monetary network. The first of it's kind. A paradigm shift in the history of money. Everyone needs it. We are still early.
Stock are crashing bitcoin investment right now will be at every wise individual's list. In a month you'll be ecstatic with the decision you made today.
People will be kicking themselves in few weeks if they miss the opportunity to buy and invest in Bitcoin
2021 online stock market is just difficult and unbelievable, I rather invest my money on crypto
People are ignorant of profitablity in bitcoin investment and that has been the major issues limiting their investment
Excellent work! Thanks for bringing such a high quality content. As investor I still prefere to buy artificially supressed physical gold and silver instead of overhyped and overheated BTC. However I might consider to allocate 1% into BTC, but only during the liqudity event, when everybody is forced to sell.
If set of all investors pays certain fee to miners, doesn't that mean investors (in total) will always be in loss? How can investors gain their money back that they lost to miners' fee, other than from other investors?
"SOMEBODY Please Think of the Children!!"
The "Criminal use" argument in a nutshell.
Most criminal activity uses the Fiat Federal Reserve Note.
Did he say it wasn't ? Selective listening leads to opinions based on incorrect listening. In computing terms. Garbage in. Garbage out.
honest people use federal reserve notes
As a proponent of bitcoin, that may be true in aggregate but not proportionately.
Yes and most of the crime is conducted by The Fed -
Correction: the most criminal organisation is the federal reserve
Absolutely amazing I was unaware two people with opposing views could participate in a grown up conversation and take turns in speaking what a fantastic and informative debate I’m team Pomp all day but Mike had some very interesting views and happy to hear them. It’s a shame we live in a world where the politicians are unable to engage in a debate this way
Nothing grown up about pomp
Loved this. Was a savage, yet respectful debate
"war is not an economic interest" - has Mike Green been asleep on the past 80 years?
He's right, it isn't. Economies contract during war time. It's a fact, not an opinion.
@@Nick_Chanas totally i think this opinion comes from peoples reaction to the growth that ignites after war. suppliers of military equipment do well though everyone else doesn't
@@Nick_Chanas Have you heard of... the arms trade?
It is for the elites who fabricate wars.
@@RogerYeahmon USA was getting rich anyway and France really won the First World War with U.K. USA did not start it
POMP you should learn to argue without using exclusively ad hominem and straw-man techniques, very hard to watch
☠ this whole time i was like 'can people just make rational, non emotive, non pathos arguments EVER?!'
Completely agree. Anthony came out the gate with his “approach it at a 3rd grade level..as to avoid an intellectual slight of hand”...then proceeds with (as you said) ad hominem and straw-man techniques.
This is how 90% of people here in Seattle communicate...about everything..big or petty.
I’m so tired of these types of “conversations” and can’t recall the last time I witnessed a forthright discussion.
I tapped out of this one at 40 min.
Agreed his rebuttals doesnt really address the arguments of Mike.. so cringey
I'd love to see Mike Green and Jeff Booth do one on the future of jobs, Mike made some solid points but I'm not certain he's really thought through the deflationary effects of technology on our economy and the future implications of how "livings" may be made, and for his part I think Jeff would massively benefit from further insight on how society may bridge the monetary policy to the technology society of excess that we are careening towards.
Wow Mike really blows Pomp out of the water here. And Pomp helps him all the way. Definitely need Raoul or Saylor on the pro-Bitcoin side next time to really flesh out these issues and actually respond to Mike’s points
I agree.
I disagree entirely I thought the exact opposite 😅
Somehow, Mike green sounds more credible and trustworthy. Pomp put straw man arguments forth.
After Mike said, "War is not an economic interest..." He paused, knowing he just said the dumbest thing in the debate...
Amazing debate, one of the best I have watched on the topic. Thanks guys! I give it to Pomp, Mike had great arguments, but less great counters, Pomp had both in my view.
Pomp may be right or he might also not be. Not what I ultimately saw. Green clearly was the more polished debater and kept ruffling Pomp’s feathers without even trying. Frustration was oozing from Pomp’s screen. His lack of composure hurt his credibility.
Also, who invests over 90% of their net worth on a speculative asset? He’s all in and not hedging for any risk.
Honestly I couldn’t not take him seriously after he said 96% of his net worth is in crypto. That’s just insane.
@@HenryPaulThe3rd if it's 'crypto' then it's not THAT insane (as tech has proved to be the big winner = even in the S&P).
What will be insane is if he's portfolio is 96% 'BTC'. That's indeed portfolio suicide.
@@saintmte5076 crypto is digital beanie babies for men
@@HenryPaulThe3rd lol that ppl are making whole salaries off. Some that are persistent become millionaires within a few years.
I've worked a 9-5, invested in stocks etc so if crypto is digital beanie babies then someone please feed me some hahaha