I think you're underselling vanheres a bit. They're not merely murderous elves vikings ripping everything that stand in their path while berserk. They're also 16-protection murderous elves vikings ripping everything that stand in their path while laughing at those puny arrows the other elves are so afraid of. Then since they're such killy dude without any help (especially when you have access to strength of giants/rush of strength and weapon of sharpness in case two attack with 24-26 damage isn't enough) you can take a bless like barkskin and they will have 20 protection before even going berserk. Expansion with such sacred is completely mindless. Get two turn of recruitment, chose a direction, and continue until you find another player. Only like very very large amount of barbs will give you pause. Everything else get slaughtered. And Barkskin + resist will also help your thugs doing standard elves stuff so it's not like you would take that bless only for the vanheres. (Of course it's not like it's the only valid bless)
While I agree, it's worth noting they're not 16 prot until after they are hit. For a low-hp unshielded troop that's a lot more relevant than for an anakite.
@@Mewobiba Yeah, but they still have a respectable 13 protection, which is pretty good in EA. With that an 15 hp (and fire resist to counter flaming arrows), it's very unlikely they will die to a single arrow. They're also a third of the price of an Anakite. As far as cap only sacred goes, they're maybe not better than Anakites, but they're definitely among the best in the game.
Lightning spear is a pretty decent replacement for Frost brands if you fail to get any access to water. Otherwise you're going to have to wait until Const6 to get the fire brands, although their quite a bit more expensive. As mentioned in the video you can empower a blood random Vanadrott twice in order to get to B5 for Armor of Souls and Brazen vessel. But what is important to note is that this also gives access to the Robe of the Magi, which can solve a whole bunch of magic diversity issues. E.g. D-random dwarf + skull staff + robe = mound fiends, mound fiend + skull staff + robe = liches, wraith lords and skull faces, lich + skull staff + skull face + robe = tartarians. One Robe of the Magi can save a lot of empowering, and you're going to have to empower in blood anyway.
What about taking "Winter's Gift" as part of your bless? The nation is cold +1 preference, so you are probably going to go cold +3 for your scales and be permanently encased in snow. It would give all of your thugy research mages awesome mobility in your dominion.
Compared to Vanheim, Helheim has a better magic diversity with high Death magic, adding a whole high-level magic school to the nation (A/E/D compared to only A/E). Their sacreds are definitely less killy, but with high defense can be more survivable. Also, the hangadrotts are really good thug, can act as cloud trapeze skelespammers, as well as native cloud trapeze wind of death raiders. The Earth variants are even better given how they can buff themselves. I'd really like to see an episode where you analyze this yourself !
I think you can consider the vanherir (is that correct pluralization?) as sacred troops provide use as specialists. Your expensive glamoured troops can suffer quite drastically from e.g. fire elementals or foul vapours (even after the FV nerf), and having a "customizable" troop in your vanherir can provide a response to that. Fire resistance is already strong as a bless, and some poison resistance is cheap. Magic Weapons is also a potential choice, though it synergizes less with your thugs.
Dumb pet peeve -- people calling van nations "elves" In Norse mythology Vanir are a race from their own realm that are very much like Asgardians, they have a war and then sort of inter-marry, the norns are Vanir and some experts have speculated that Heimdal may be as well. Alfar are elves in Norse myth and come from their own realm, Alfheim, they are the inspiration for Tolkien's elves and the root of the word "elf". If you want to call a Dom5 race elves go with TNN, Sidh are functionally the Irish version of elves/fairies.
Illwinter's adaption of mythology is all over the place. I mean come on, Helheim and Niefelheim are the same place in Norse mythology. Neither Vanir nor Aesir in the game are much like what they are in mythology. So while I agree that the Vanir of myth are not 'elves' in a reasonable way, the Vanir in Dominions are much more like elves so calling them such seems fair. Would be really cool if we could get an Alfheim nation though.
Looking at your recent EA tierlist your perspective on Vanheim MUST have changed and although you have already done this national overview it seems like if you had to do it again you would talk about it in a very different way.
13:45 How come you say Vanjarl are almost 3 times as expensive than Vanherse? 140x2=280 Vanjarl are 5 gold less than twice the price? Math can't be that hard.
Am i wrong in thinking that these thugs would get eaten alive by the Mekone E2F2 thugs (default gear), and similarly by just 2 gigante units, as their magic weapons bypass their air buffs and illusion, while also hitting real hard? Not to mention that repel might become relevant too
2 units that hit hard but have low attack density against a high defense thug? Isnt that kind of the ideal situation for a thug that relies on its defense? What they hate is tons of multiple attacks that harass them down, or ranged attacks, or actual magic spells, or nets...not 2 measly attacks a turn.
Around elves, watch yourselves...
1:11 gonna be quick national overview
*Video length is one and a half hour*
National overview was quick; was all the thug and expansion testing that you got as a bonus that took a while :P
Funny stuff
I think you're underselling vanheres a bit. They're not merely murderous elves vikings ripping everything that stand in their path while berserk. They're also 16-protection murderous elves vikings ripping everything that stand in their path while laughing at those puny arrows the other elves are so afraid of. Then since they're such killy dude without any help (especially when you have access to strength of giants/rush of strength and weapon of sharpness in case two attack with 24-26 damage isn't enough) you can take a bless like barkskin and they will have 20 protection before even going berserk. Expansion with such sacred is completely mindless. Get two turn of recruitment, chose a direction, and continue until you find another player. Only like very very large amount of barbs will give you pause. Everything else get slaughtered.
And Barkskin + resist will also help your thugs doing standard elves stuff so it's not like you would take that bless only for the vanheres.
(Of course it's not like it's the only valid bless)
While I agree, it's worth noting they're not 16 prot until after they are hit. For a low-hp unshielded troop that's a lot more relevant than for an anakite.
@@Mewobiba Yeah, but they still have a respectable 13 protection, which is pretty good in EA. With that an 15 hp (and fire resist to counter flaming arrows), it's very unlikely they will die to a single arrow. They're also a third of the price of an Anakite. As far as cap only sacred goes, they're maybe not better than Anakites, but they're definitely among the best in the game.
Lightning spear is a pretty decent replacement for Frost brands if you fail to get any access to water. Otherwise you're going to have to wait until Const6 to get the fire brands, although their quite a bit more expensive.
As mentioned in the video you can empower a blood random Vanadrott twice in order to get to B5 for Armor of Souls and Brazen vessel. But what is important to note is that this also gives access to the Robe of the Magi, which can solve a whole bunch of magic diversity issues. E.g. D-random dwarf + skull staff + robe = mound fiends, mound fiend + skull staff + robe = liches, wraith lords and skull faces, lich + skull staff + skull face + robe = tartarians. One Robe of the Magi can save a lot of empowering, and you're going to have to empower in blood anyway.
What about taking "Winter's Gift" as part of your bless? The nation is cold +1 preference, so you are probably going to go cold +3 for your scales and be permanently encased in snow. It would give all of your thugy research mages awesome mobility in your dominion.
I wish you would do T'ir Na N'ogg. Similar to the Heims ins some ways, but they just never seem to do as well. E2 is so useful to have.
Compared to Vanheim, Helheim has a better magic diversity with high Death magic, adding a whole high-level magic school to the nation (A/E/D compared to only A/E). Their sacreds are definitely less killy, but with high defense can be more survivable. Also, the hangadrotts are really good thug, can act as cloud trapeze skelespammers, as well as native cloud trapeze wind of death raiders. The Earth variants are even better given how they can buff themselves. I'd really like to see an episode where you analyze this yourself !
i actually love you lucid
I think you can consider the vanherir (is that correct pluralization?) as sacred troops provide use as specialists. Your expensive glamoured troops can suffer quite drastically from e.g. fire elementals or foul vapours (even after the FV nerf), and having a "customizable" troop in your vanherir can provide a response to that. Fire resistance is already strong as a bless, and some poison resistance is cheap. Magic Weapons is also a potential choice, though it synergizes less with your thugs.
One EA Vanheim build I would like to try out just for fun is a dormant A5N7 Idol of beasts with Wind walker and Regeneration for some crazy raiding.
Helheim would be dope for you to play imo
I actually had a decent amount of similar thoughts when looking over this nation, I think that means im getting a little better at least. :)
Defense on a +5 berserker unit? Seems like a waste
Dumb pet peeve -- people calling van nations "elves"
In Norse mythology Vanir are a race from their own realm that are very much like Asgardians, they have a war and then sort of inter-marry, the norns are Vanir and some experts have speculated that Heimdal may be as well. Alfar are elves in Norse myth and come from their own realm, Alfheim, they are the inspiration for Tolkien's elves and the root of the word "elf".
If you want to call a Dom5 race elves go with TNN, Sidh are functionally the Irish version of elves/fairies.
Glamour nations are traditonally called elves. Its just how it is.
Illwinter's adaption of mythology is all over the place. I mean come on, Helheim and Niefelheim are the same place in Norse mythology. Neither Vanir nor Aesir in the game are much like what they are in mythology. So while I agree that the Vanir of myth are not 'elves' in a reasonable way, the Vanir in Dominions are much more like elves so calling them such seems fair. Would be really cool if we could get an Alfheim nation though.
The vanir are more similar to the alfar than the aesir. The vanir are absolutely elves and I'm not sure where you got this from.
Looking at your recent EA tierlist your perspective on Vanheim MUST have changed and although you have already done this national overview it seems like if you had to do it again you would talk about it in a very different way.
you're 100% right.
13:45 How come you say Vanjarl are almost 3 times as expensive than Vanherse?
140x2=280
Vanjarl are 5 gold less than twice the price? Math can't be that hard.
Say have nice hereos!!!
Am i wrong in thinking that these thugs would get eaten alive by the Mekone E2F2 thugs (default gear), and similarly by just 2 gigante units, as their magic weapons bypass their air buffs and illusion, while also hitting real hard? Not to mention that repel might become relevant too
2 units that hit hard but have low attack density against a high defense thug? Isnt that kind of the ideal situation for a thug that relies on its defense? What they hate is tons of multiple attacks that harass them down, or ranged attacks, or actual magic spells, or nets...not 2 measly attacks a turn.