I am sure if the Chinese emperor was still around, he would copy everything from the west accept liberal capitalism and human Rights. The Chinese people through their unelected emperor would love their Chinese system. Any dissident would be death with accordingly.
One of the best conversations on the lessons of history and the three major civilizational geographies that have shaped human journey so far. Thank you.
Wang Gungwu sir, you made some great points here. Especially the one when you said that if politicians make a statement and media just shows it again and again it becomes truth for people. Also, I loved your talk about how Social Media's info is fragmented. And reading books from different perspectives will help you to develop the sense of reason and clarity. Thank you very much!
People all over the world have voted with their feet about which political system is the best. Immigration is not a problem China has to face, but rich Chinese mothers visit the USA to give birth so that their children can claim US citizenship in the future. Indira Gandhi once said, “it is a mistake to think that the poor don’t care about freedom; it may be the only thing they have”.
PERCEIVED FREEDOM is what poor have. What can they do with freedom of systems are corrupted and only money and power can buy the justice. INDIRA probably didn’t know that difference. No sir, poor doesn’t have any freedom if they cannot use it.
While I do agree that material comfort may play a part in the life of a human being, I would also confidently add that material wealth isn't everything and that there are other things (much) more important.
@@ShibaTadao it is a major misconception that people migrate in search of material comfort. A study conducted by a distinguished, NRI professor on why highly educated Indians leave India, concluded that the main reason is better Human Infrastructure. Human Infrastructure refers to the ease of interacting with people who are not in your network. It leads to a more productive and satisfying life. Any thing you do in India takes ten times the effort that it takes in the West, not because of the technical infrastructure but because of the Human Infrastructure. I say this, not with smugness but with sadness, as Indians are individually smart and kind, but collectively are poor at getting along with each other.
Big powers rivalry has been the dominant strand that makes history since time immemorial. Singapore itself is caught up in it in many occasions. We are one of the few SEA nations favoured by the US, and China sees us as a pragmatic partner in trade matters. In time to come, we will be caught in the crosshair of these big powers. What's important is that Singapore remains neutral if conflicts arise, and we are self-reliant especially when it comes to electricity and food.
Carl ZHa recently commented on Singapore being a US client state, definitely not pro china. Is your electricity generated by nuclear? You have plenty of Gas and oil to generate electricity ? You have fertilizers to grow food?
@@michaele4830 It is , as it has a Naval base, and look at origin of weapons Furthermore examine the institutional links. More importantly, SWIFT is crucial to SG as a Financial Centre- although decreasing important, as neighboring countries are turning toward another system. And look!, all neighboring countries did not sanction Russia, except SG.
@@michaele4830 Is the trading sector bigger than the financial? Australia, Japan and Taiwan are all USA's client states, but all got China as the largest trading partner
Excellent topic... ST's moving in the right direction and producing much better content! I would love an episode with Ray Dalio on his books, The Changing World Order, and Principles of Big Debt Crisises.
The finest summary of world geopolitical conflict I’ve heard to date, explains everything that will shape the world for my children’s generation. Interesting and potentially dangerous times ahead, I hope the North Asians use their superior IQ to avoid global nuclear exchange with the west as nobody wins.
Dude knows his stuff, clearly. It's interesting that he seems to put the West and Islam into the same category. From a Chinese perspective, this certainly would appear to be true, in that Chinese civilization isn't really organized around belief in one thing or another, but in a culture, a set of accepted behaviors and outward attitudes. As long as you outwardly conformed to the culture, to what was expected of you, you were fine. It may shock a Westerner at first glance - people saying things they neither believe or agree with, simply because everyone else is saying them. But the priorities of traditional Chinese civilization are different. Whereas the West values some combination of enrichment, comfort, and knowledge, Chinese civilization values survival, coherence, and harmony. Mostly because it has centuries of experience seeing what happens when these things aren't there. Their current obsession with prosperity is just that. I believe in the coming decades, China will close itself off from the world and again become an inward-looking civilization that reveres officals and scholars and treats merchants and entrepreneurs with contempt.
@Marc van den Boogaard So few people know this, thank you for an excellent and informed comment. While it is a controversial thing to say among New Testament scholars, I believe Platonism (not Neoplatonism since it appeared a few centuries after the appearance of the gospels) influenced Christianity both in the gospel of John and in the obsession with the Trinity, a difficult metaphysical abstraction.
In China, Jack Ma discovered that capitalism over state is a no no. Likewise, in Singapore, Dr Chee also discovered that state over freedom of speech is also non negotiable.
Conveniently forgets to mention African tribes civilization, Native American civilization, Nordic non Christian civilization, Japanese civilization, Maori civilization. People and practices and rituals and principles of these civilizations are alive and well
These are professional Historians. Historians are known to write their opinions as ‘history’, rather than absolute truth. Absolute truth May never be known unless one is omnipresent aka God. This guy is opining that 3 civilizations are fighting, not realising it is not as black and white like how he says. Other cultures do have influence as well. His own country Singapore is a huge mix of multinationals influencing direction of their country. Can’t discount Japanese, Koreans, Latin & Africans to name a few who have their own culture and have meaningful impact on the globe today! One rationally simply can not say that just 3 civilizations are battling for top spot! That’s blasphemy!
Less than a 1/3rd of Islamic civilisation is Mediterranean, and it started in Arabia, and cultivated in Iran. So I find it odd that Islamic civilisation is considered a meditarranean civilisation. Just my opinion. It's not all that intuitive to me. Everything else is solid though.
I wonder what his view is on Governments meddling in the waters of other sovereign nations in regard to politics and elections. This will define whether Chinas credence will stand or fall, in the future, as humans tend to freedom, sovereignty, and morality.
It's not the ancient civilizations that are contending, but modern powers. The culture that prior generations may be relevant, but so are modern ideas and technology.
The eastern civilizations need to absorb Enlightenment values, and western civilizations need to take in multiculturalism and tolerance of polytheism. Thank you😮🎉
the only "enlightenment" the west has is their dumb brainwashed trash ideology. china is far more tolerant, encompassing and interested in other cultures and people than the whites have ever been. this is the case throughout all of human history
Collectivism and centralisation seems to me the commonality in the Sino cultural sphere of influence whether China, Korea, Japan or Singapore. They might have different political systems but culturally this seems to be the norm. Emphasis on collective ethnicity. There is also danger to it as there can be mass turmoil like what Mao did during cultural revolution. The emphasis on following a central directive, perhaps due to Confucianism. Hallmark of Indic civilization is diversity. Emphasis that truth cannot be put in words and so has various forms or paths. Hallmark of Western civilization is based on ideas. One idea triumphing over another idea. They believe truth can be reached through debate of ideas. Indic philosophy rejects that truth is idea. Confucianism like communism believes idea propounded by a centre or centralisation is truth.
@piyushjaiswal9283 you have become what you pretend to fight against. The opposite which you pretend to fight against has become part of yourself. Indian civilization has survived because it is not based on fight of ideas, not fight of opposites but because truth cannot be captured in words. This is basis of Universal truth or Brahman in Vedanta or Nirvana in Buddhism. This is common to all Indian philosophical paths. Ultimate Truth cannot be captured by intellect because it is independent of your past conditioning which is Karma.
I agree with you on many points but i strongly oppose your analysis that indic civilisation don't accept ideas but on the contrary indic civilisation adopts new ideas and reform old ones which you don't find in Mediterranean civilisation(I don't know much about Chinese civilisation), India is home of many buddhas, mahaveer, aadishankaracharya.... India is the only civilisation were new ideas were respected for eg when jesus came jews hang him and when Christians gain power they dismissed jews, similarly when islam came it rejects Christianity and jews but here in India no one killed buddha, no one killed mahaveer even no one killed charvaks (atheists of that time) who criticised hindus and here the biggest power of indian civilisation that we respect them and considered them as great humen beings and reform Hinduism from their teachings. Don't campare civilisation on basis of last 3 or 4 centuries were indians were attcked by Islamist and colonial powers and most of Indians don't know who they are , lost their knowledge, money and power . But India will rise again on their past values of nonviolence and philosophy of "vasudev kutumbhkum" ( i.e whole world is a family and not only humens but every life form has right to live) That is my side of analysis... Thanks 🙏
@@mohitcharan2835 Yes, I agree with you. Unlike religions of the book like the Mediterranean or West Asian religions which say their book is ultimate truth, Indian philosophies have multiple books, multiple ideas. No one asserted in the Indic philosophy that word Brahman (Ultimate Truth) or Nirvana, the word itself was truth, what was important was to find directly not just believe, so there were many paths to find through practice not belief, through intellectual debate, through meditation, through simple living, through penance, through giving up wordly attachments, even different forms of living, Karma yoga - right action through work and daily life, Gnyana Yoga - through reading, meditation and intellectual debate, Bhakti Yoga - Transcending through love of Deity, Raja Yoga - Meditation and Action in harmony with Nature. There were many different ways, even Atheists who denied Brahman had their paths. All these were inquiries into finding truth through direct experience and not just belief. Western religions emphasise belief. This has led to hypocrisy as they are good at words but action or daily relationship does not match. Like talk of peace but action is war. Indic paths emphasise more on action, finding directly. Nowadays Bhakti Yoga has become much more popular, probably due to various Bhakti movements in last 300 years. Bhakti is closest to Western religious attitude but here also there is variety. Unfortunately it has led to people not reading and understanding through testing in daily life, but just believing. That is my personal understanding
Interesting discourse on ancient civilisations by Professor Wang and the mistakes of the past. What has not been considered and discussed is the rise of the US, though young in comparison with ancient civilisations, but an extremely dangerous and aggressive one with its economic and military power (with nuclear arsenals) which will change the course of history. Nothing in the past that we have learnt would lead us to a better world when the US is bent on being the only super power; and may well destroyed all other nations and civilisations which are not their allies. The Americans should be considered the 4th civilisation of the modern age although it is a country made up primarily of European/Christian stocks except for the native Indians. It is not a civilisation like those of the past but nevertheless a civilisation albeit one which is constantly at war with itself and without.
US might not be an ancient civilization. But the current world order has to give US the credit for the fact that, the US changed the socio-political arrangement of human civilization ever since 1776. US taught the world that a state doesn't need a common ethnicity, race, history, religion or anything to exist. But rather a political agreement between people & institutions can easily work.
@@UwUO-OUwU That may be so for a noble cause some 50 years ago but it has evolved into one of selfish hedgemon and the cause of much misery around the world with its military might and bombs in so many poorer nations and sanctions.
As a Citizen, reading up to know the full context and background of Singapore's Independence journey starting From the Japanese Occupation Will Be relevant and Instructive in understanding and interpreting events since. After 56 years of relative success, Singapore's added danger comes from alternative arguments touted, that gradually chip away at the foundation cornerstones of Singapore society carefully laid and built upon over 56 years. But success, exuberance and over confidence brings with it its own problems. History is not short of examples of rise and gradual decline, sometimes into irrelevance. There is seldom a 'this time its different, we are different so the outcome will be different and better' To illustrate, is Sri Lanka’s recent bankruptcy just a simple current mishap or did its origins gradually Evolve over 77 years ago? You mean it takes 77 years to become bankrupt a country? Some do it faster. Others gradually, down the slippery slope bequeathed by the grandparents to their grandchildren.
In Shri Lanka.s case the decline was due to extreme greed amongst the leader ship and their cronies by suppressing the poor masses who no say in running the government
@@spiritualseeker410 That belt of Ganga was most civilized and started much deeper question including spiritual awakening. Islamic invaders and British crushed it brutally. Even if you see revolt of 1857 it is northern India which was most active. British crushed UP, Bihar Bengal like anything after that. So nationalism awakened there not in Southern India so much.
@@spiritualseeker410 There are many states which have higher literacy and education rate than West Bengal but none more than Kerala. Keralites prove it in their Human growth index and social security. Even their movies are best in India. What about West Bengal ?
India has no civilization that wasn't imported in by the Moguls. Otherwise, the budoo-yogo mumbo jumbo of india is only practiced by arerikun middel-klass wimmens of moderate IQ.
chinese practice a bastardized version of buddhism. any indians worship a fat buddha that would make them rich? true buddhism was horrific to traditional chinese. yogic science--haven't seen it.
@@spiritualseeker410 Yoga is not physical exercises part alone, Yoga is way deeper than what you imagine about it. Yoga is not something like Tai chi boxing.
It sems that Taiwan, Japan and South Korea have been able to reconcile liberal democracy with their own specific national traditions. Why not mainland China#
It's not about reading books or not. It's about distnguishing between books that are worth reading about a subject and the rest that are just a waste of your time. There aren so many books written about almost every subject and most are trash, often even academic trash. Maybe start by never reading a book written, or alledgedly written, by any (former) politician.
Sitting here in Canada, I feel like you have missed the fact that Native people and African people have other traditions but I can see your point that those cultures are not as dominant in the world as the 3 that you mentioned. It is funny to me to think that christians and Muslims are part of the same group but yeah you do have a point there. They come from the same root
Both Christianity and Islam are abrahamic religions. They believe in one book. They have institutionalized religions and both are helbent to destroy other religions on this planet.
For a scholar who has practised under the traditions and essential freedoms of the Anglosphere, he is remarkably lax in his civilizational 'trident'. Only in the broadest historical purview could the English achievement and phylum be termed Mediterranean; and the further conflation of Islam and Christianity is the broadest of brush. I note also his easy batting away of the freedoms of the individual and civil freedoms, granting a hall pass to the Party, and to its city-state underling and flag-bearer in S E Asia, by so doing (from the solace of his Australian passport and latter Sg). There is no escaping the truth that Western / Enlightenment (specifically its British and American forms) spawned a goodly measure of the Modern Era's successes: and the neat idea in his proposition that China can absorb and run with the tech advances yet scrub the humanist and political advances disobeys the trend of history. He is politely building in his rendering the scaffold for the Orwellian state with tech steroids at present in foment before our very eyes. In other words: his analysis is a cherry picking exercise. Of note : without doubt the Confucian cultural phylum / Han civilization has had and will have its place in the sun, but if that is a hard Confucianism destroying the soul... and demanding blind obedience or even oblivion, it will fail. The challenge for the Sinic world is to find balance... (something it rounds on the West for supposedly not having). Yet, look at: the extremes which everywhere abound in modern-day Chinese societies, starting with the obscene worship of extremes of wealth cheek-by-jowl with abject poverty, and notorious gambling of hundreds of billions, the infantile chasing away, swatting and "shooting down" of words in the Chinese cyber world, the entire approach to the C19 exigency followed by volte face, and the arrest of citizens for memes and cartoons. This cannot hold against the weight of history. In the same measure, by the way, aspects of the Anglospherical polity have become as unbalanced but in different ways. All are repudiations of the Enlightenment; which he seems to suggest is little more than a 'Western plot' to hold back China!
Is written history really a history of winners? I would like to disagree here by pointing to the history of ancient Israel. I have another question: Isn't the division of the world into three different civilizations too rigid to be a good premise for scientific conclusions?
@@popkhorne5372 History has shown that even very small events can often have huge repercussions. Predictions are always difficult when they concern the future. Apart from that, the discourse about cultures is a political discourse, not a scientific one.
I think there is a bit of an ideological slant on things happening here. One major thing as a Westerner I would apologize to China for is the imposition of a ruthless form of Marxism-Communism from Europe.
I disagree with the Gungwu's taxonomy. The West and Islam are separate civilizations. The US is part of the western civilization, the greatest civilization in human history because it allows individuals to be their best.
There are no civilisational differences or conflicts within Hindus. Its been advertised as such with the help of Dubious people with Hindu names but converted ideologies.
I wonder how the people who went to Tienanmen Square and those who discretely support them think when they hear that human rights belongs to a Mediterranean civilization, not to them. Regardless, everything becomes globalized, we need to learn to live under one roof - but how can we live in peace together without a common sense of justice? It doesn't have to be individualist, but I don't see anything better than universal human rights as that common vision. Let each contribute to fulfill them in their own way, drawing inspiration from Buddha or Confucius or other traditions, but don't deny them to your own people by casting human rights as a foreign invention, that would be the least patriotic thing one could do. As for knowledge, it is a human good, so long as it includes critical thinking and open-mindedness, otherwise it might turn into censorship and prejudice, and nothing could be worse for someone who seeks knowledge.
6:30 if selffish dictorship control on top of capitalism, you will see someone like Jackson Ma, sometimes he can be the richest man on earth, but he can suddenly lose everything and even his personal freedom. No one would want to be in such system to do business at all.
@@jameschu4331 Muslims are new in Kashmir.. The name itself kashmir is a hindu name.. there are hindu temples older than islam itself in kashmir. So argument does not stand
For China to survive as a distinct civilization, it have to be more than politics and political power. . Chinese people have to assert it cultural dimensional as well. . Converting to a Mediterranean religion make you lose it. South Korea is vanishing. . India is essentially about a cultural dimension mainly.
India will survive. Also Chinese and Indian civilisation cannot be compared. Chinese has no religion of its past, maybe a fringe minority practices it....even largest religion Buddhism was propogated from India. Whereas the native Indian culture religions ie Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism etc are still alive and growing. Just because India has high number of muslims and christians....it does not strip away the civilisational status of Indians.
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A wise man. World leaders would benefit to listen to this interview and reflect.
Hearing Prof Gungwu is enriches understanding. Respect from India.
Always a joy to listen to Prof Wang. A treasure trove of wisdom and knowledge. Very much looking forward to this series!
I am sure if the Chinese emperor was still around, he would copy everything from the west accept liberal capitalism and human Rights. The Chinese people through their unelected emperor would love their Chinese system. Any dissident would be death with accordingly.
it seems he has been brainwashed by China now
One of the best conversations on the lessons of history and the three major civilizational geographies that have shaped human journey so far. Thank you.
Wang Gungwu sir, you made some great points here.
Especially the one when you said that if politicians make a statement and media just shows it again and again it becomes truth for people.
Also, I loved your talk about how Social Media's info is fragmented.
And reading books from different perspectives will help you to develop the sense of reason and clarity.
Thank you very much!
I'in privileged to have met Prof Wang in 1963 when he was a young history lecturer. He delivered a talk at my school
Bruh 😮
People all over the world have voted with their feet about which political system is the best. Immigration is not a problem China has to face, but rich Chinese mothers visit the USA to give birth so that their children can claim US citizenship in the future. Indira Gandhi once said, “it is a mistake to think that the poor don’t care about freedom; it may be the only thing they have”.
PERCEIVED FREEDOM is what poor have. What can they do with freedom of systems are corrupted and only money and power can buy the justice. INDIRA probably didn’t know that difference.
No sir, poor doesn’t have any freedom if they cannot use it.
While I do agree that material comfort may play a part in the life of a human being, I would also confidently add that material wealth isn't everything and that there are other things (much) more important.
@@ShibaTadao it is a major misconception that people migrate in search of material comfort. A study conducted by a distinguished, NRI professor on why highly educated Indians leave India, concluded that the main reason is better Human Infrastructure. Human Infrastructure refers to the ease of interacting with people who are not in your network. It leads to a more productive and satisfying life. Any thing you do in India takes ten times the effort that it takes in the West, not because of the technical infrastructure but because of the Human Infrastructure. I say this, not with smugness but with sadness, as Indians are individually smart and kind, but collectively are poor at getting along with each other.
Ur thinking is flawed
@@sdutta8Do you think wesyeners get along with each other easily
Historian Wang Gungwu is a brilliant mind
So much wisdom from Prof. Wang as always. A huge appreciation for this interview. 🙏
Very interesting explanation from an eminent Professor. We look forward for more knowledge from him. Thanks
This was such a lovely interview/conversation, very insightful. Thank you
the past are the collection of mistakes , experience and knowledge for us to learn. to ignore the past is to making us repeat the mistakes again
Big powers rivalry has been the dominant strand that makes history since time immemorial. Singapore itself is caught up in it in many occasions. We are one of the few SEA nations favoured by the US, and China sees us as a pragmatic partner in trade matters. In time to come, we will be caught in the crosshair of these big powers. What's important is that Singapore remains neutral if conflicts arise, and we are self-reliant especially when it comes to electricity and food.
Singapore is too small and insignifant for consideration in geopolitics 🤣 its just a tiny dot and a small fart when the elephants start a war.
Carl ZHa recently commented on Singapore being a US client state, definitely not pro china. Is your electricity generated by nuclear? You have plenty of Gas and oil to generate electricity ? You have fertilizers to grow food?
@@biggpicture2930 If SG is indeed a US client state, she could not have been China's largest trading partner.
@@michaele4830 It is , as it has a Naval base, and look at origin of weapons Furthermore examine the institutional links. More importantly, SWIFT is crucial to SG as a Financial Centre- although decreasing important, as neighboring countries are turning toward another system. And look!, all neighboring countries did not sanction Russia, except SG.
@@michaele4830 Is the trading sector bigger than the financial? Australia, Japan and Taiwan are all USA's client states, but all got China as the largest trading partner
A wise man full of wisdom Please bring such inteviews
Professor's Wang's insight's are thought provoking.
It is a pleasure to hear this eminent historian Thanks for this
Excellent topic... ST's moving in the right direction and producing much better content!
I would love an episode with Ray Dalio on his books, The Changing World Order, and Principles of Big Debt Crisises.
The finest summary of world geopolitical conflict I’ve heard to date, explains everything that will shape the world for my children’s generation. Interesting and potentially dangerous times ahead, I hope the North Asians use their superior IQ to avoid global nuclear exchange with the west as nobody wins.
First be a winner, victorious, then you can narrate... people will listen to you is the takeaway. Very astute talk 👏
SATYAM SHIVAM SUNDARAM SATYA HI SHIV HAI SHIV HI SUNDAR HAI
And hum har jagah hae
Excellent! Thank you, Professor Wang Gungwu.
finally found a youtube content which is great, too much nonsense nowadays. Very good interview.
Dude knows his stuff, clearly. It's interesting that he seems to put the West and Islam into the same category. From a Chinese perspective, this certainly would appear to be true, in that Chinese civilization isn't really organized around belief in one thing or another, but in a culture, a set of accepted behaviors and outward attitudes. As long as you outwardly conformed to the culture, to what was expected of you, you were fine. It may shock a Westerner at first glance - people saying things they neither believe or agree with, simply because everyone else is saying them. But the priorities of traditional Chinese civilization are different. Whereas the West values some combination of enrichment, comfort, and knowledge, Chinese civilization values survival, coherence, and harmony. Mostly because it has centuries of experience seeing what happens when these things aren't there. Their current obsession with prosperity is just that. I believe in the coming decades, China will close itself off from the world and again become an inward-looking civilization that reveres officals and scholars and treats merchants and entrepreneurs with contempt.
@Marc van den Boogaard So few people know this, thank you for an excellent and informed comment. While it is a controversial thing to say among New Testament scholars, I believe Platonism (not Neoplatonism since it appeared a few centuries after the appearance of the gospels) influenced Christianity both in the gospel of John and in the obsession with the Trinity, a difficult metaphysical abstraction.
In China, Jack Ma discovered that capitalism over state is a no no. Likewise, in Singapore, Dr Chee also discovered that state over freedom of speech is also non negotiable.
" TRUTH cannot be distorted over time. It will be out in the open, Sir !
You are right. The truth is that China is a big bully ruled by a dictator.The day of reckoning is near.
Conveniently forgets to mention African tribes civilization, Native American civilization, Nordic non Christian civilization, Japanese civilization, Maori civilization. People and practices and rituals and principles of these civilizations are alive and well
He doesn't forget, these civilizations are not movers and shakers in the current geo politics of the world.
These are professional Historians. Historians are known to write their opinions as ‘history’, rather than absolute truth. Absolute truth May never be known unless one is omnipresent aka God. This guy is opining that 3 civilizations are fighting, not realising it is not as black and white like how he says. Other cultures do have influence as well. His own country Singapore is a huge mix of multinationals influencing direction of their country. Can’t discount Japanese, Koreans, Latin & Africans to name a few who have their own culture and have meaningful impact on the globe today! One rationally simply can not say that just 3 civilizations are battling for top spot! That’s blasphemy!
@@sandrosadhukhanTo nitpick, Japan is.
@@DDDDD428 The Japanese are about to go extinct because of population decline.
@@DDDDD428 Nah Japan is essentially American extension
l think he's a legend of our times;)*!!!
His master English is just perfect
Wang Gungwu's interview shows him to be an essential source of guidance. Thank you Straits Times!
Less than a 1/3rd of Islamic civilisation is Mediterranean, and it started in Arabia, and cultivated in Iran. So I find it odd that Islamic civilisation is considered a meditarranean civilisation. Just my opinion. It's not all that intuitive to me.
Everything else is solid though.
He means historically speaking.
I wonder what his view is on Governments meddling in the waters of other sovereign nations in regard to politics and elections. This will define whether Chinas credence will stand or fall, in the future, as humans tend to freedom, sovereignty, and morality.
The inter-racial competitions are essentially unlimited games.
It's not the ancient civilizations that are contending, but modern powers. The culture that prior generations may be relevant, but so are modern ideas and technology.
Wonderful interview. Thank you .
Very good on learning your view 😀
The eastern civilizations need to absorb Enlightenment values, and western civilizations need to take in multiculturalism and tolerance of polytheism. Thank you😮🎉
average unipolarist
the only "enlightenment" the west has is their dumb brainwashed trash ideology. china is far more tolerant, encompassing and interested in other cultures and people than the whites have ever been. this is the case throughout all of human history
Ur thinking is stupid
Collectivism and centralisation seems to me the commonality in the Sino cultural sphere of influence whether China, Korea, Japan or Singapore. They might have different political systems but culturally this seems to be the norm. Emphasis on collective ethnicity. There is also danger to it as there can be mass turmoil like what Mao did during cultural revolution. The emphasis on following a central directive, perhaps due to Confucianism.
Hallmark of Indic civilization is diversity. Emphasis that truth cannot be put in words and so has various forms or paths.
Hallmark of Western civilization is based on ideas. One idea triumphing over another idea. They believe truth can be reached through debate of ideas. Indic philosophy rejects that truth is idea. Confucianism like communism believes idea propounded by a centre or centralisation is truth.
United we stand divided we fall. Multiculturalism as strength is a lie.
The kind of diversity that you are seeking is allowing the rapist Abrahamic desert cults
@piyushjaiswal9283 you have become what you pretend to fight against. The opposite which you pretend to fight against has become part of yourself.
Indian civilization has survived because it is not based on fight of ideas, not fight of opposites but because truth cannot be captured in words. This is basis of Universal truth or Brahman in Vedanta or Nirvana in Buddhism. This is common to all Indian philosophical paths. Ultimate Truth cannot be captured by intellect because it is independent of your past conditioning which is Karma.
I agree with you on many points but i strongly oppose your analysis that indic civilisation don't accept ideas but on the contrary indic civilisation adopts new ideas and reform old ones which you don't find in Mediterranean civilisation(I don't know much about Chinese civilisation), India is home of many buddhas, mahaveer, aadishankaracharya....
India is the only civilisation were new ideas were respected for eg when jesus came jews hang him and when Christians gain power they dismissed jews, similarly when islam came it rejects Christianity and jews but here in India no one killed buddha, no one killed mahaveer even no one killed charvaks (atheists of that time) who criticised hindus and here the biggest power of indian civilisation that we respect them and considered them as great humen beings and reform Hinduism from their teachings. Don't campare civilisation on basis of last 3 or 4 centuries were indians were attcked by Islamist and colonial powers and most of Indians don't know who they are , lost their knowledge, money and power . But India will rise again on their past values of nonviolence and philosophy of "vasudev kutumbhkum" ( i.e whole world is a family and not only humens but every life form has right to live)
That is my side of analysis... Thanks 🙏
@@mohitcharan2835 Yes, I agree with you. Unlike religions of the book like the Mediterranean or West Asian religions which say their book is ultimate truth, Indian philosophies have multiple books, multiple ideas. No one asserted in the Indic philosophy that word Brahman (Ultimate Truth) or Nirvana, the word itself was truth, what was important was to find directly not just believe, so there were many paths to find through practice not belief, through intellectual debate, through meditation, through simple living, through penance, through giving up wordly attachments, even different forms of living, Karma yoga - right action through work and daily life, Gnyana Yoga - through reading, meditation and intellectual debate, Bhakti Yoga - Transcending through love of Deity, Raja Yoga - Meditation and Action in harmony with Nature. There were many different ways, even Atheists who denied Brahman had their paths. All these were inquiries into finding truth through direct experience and not just belief. Western religions emphasise belief. This has led to hypocrisy as they are good at words but action or daily relationship does not match. Like talk of peace but action is war. Indic paths emphasise more on action, finding directly. Nowadays Bhakti Yoga has become much more popular, probably due to various Bhakti movements in last 300 years. Bhakti is closest to Western religious attitude but here also there is variety. Unfortunately it has led to people not reading and understanding through testing in daily life, but just believing. That is my personal understanding
As usual. He is an amazing scholar. Good 👍🏾 exchange. Thank you 🙏🏽
11:24 ✨✨✨✨ especially for us Indians
What a great and interesting speaker.
Thanks Straits Times for covering this.
feels like that could have been 2 hrs of fascinating talk - get him back on!
Interesting discourse on ancient civilisations by Professor Wang and the mistakes of the past. What has not been considered and discussed is the rise of the US, though young in comparison with ancient civilisations, but an extremely dangerous and aggressive one with its economic and military power (with nuclear arsenals) which will change the course of history. Nothing in the past that we have learnt would lead us to a better world when the US is bent on being the only super power; and may well destroyed all other nations and civilisations which are not their allies. The Americans should be considered the 4th civilisation of the modern age although it is a country made up primarily of European/Christian stocks except for the native Indians. It is not a civilisation like those of the past but nevertheless a civilisation albeit one which is constantly at war with itself and without.
US might not be an ancient civilization. But the current world order has to give US the credit for the fact that, the US changed the socio-political arrangement of human civilization ever since 1776. US taught the world that a state doesn't need a common ethnicity, race, history, religion or anything to exist. But rather a political agreement between people & institutions can easily work.
@@UwUO-OUwU That may be so for a noble cause some 50 years ago but it has evolved into one of selfish hedgemon and the cause of much misery around the world with its military might and bombs in so many poorer nations and sanctions.
@@jetthapeterkhoo Yes the worms did indeed spill out of the can. But it did changed the course of the political history.
@@UwUO-OUwU yes, but what good does it do for the present civilization?
@@jetthapeterkhoo Russia is also a power that is capable of influencing the future of the world
As a Citizen, reading up to know the full context and background of Singapore's Independence journey starting From the Japanese Occupation Will Be relevant and Instructive in understanding and interpreting events since.
After 56 years of relative success, Singapore's added danger comes from alternative arguments touted, that gradually chip away at the foundation cornerstones of Singapore society carefully laid and built upon over 56 years. But success, exuberance and over confidence brings with it its own problems. History is not short of examples of rise and gradual decline, sometimes into irrelevance. There is seldom a 'this time its different, we are different so the outcome will be different and better'
To illustrate, is Sri Lanka’s recent bankruptcy just a simple current mishap or did its origins gradually Evolve over 77 years ago?
You mean it takes 77 years to become bankrupt a country? Some do it faster. Others gradually, down the slippery slope bequeathed by the grandparents to their grandchildren.
In Shri Lanka.s case the decline was due to extreme greed amongst the leader ship and their cronies by suppressing the poor masses who no say in running the government
@@shabudinjaver4672yes and they fall prey to chinese bluff about infrastructure development and revenue.
What an interesting old man. Good, clear ideas.
Free Tibet
Waooo nice thoughts, appreciated ❤❤❤❤
He wisely choose only three civilizations, Chinese, Indic and Mediterranean (May be Abrahamic) civilizations.
@@spiritualseeker410 That belt of Ganga was most civilized and started much deeper question including spiritual awakening. Islamic invaders and British crushed it brutally. Even if you see revolt of 1857 it is northern India which was most active. British crushed UP, Bihar Bengal like anything after that. So nationalism awakened there not in Southern India so much.
@@spiritualseeker410 There are many states which have higher literacy and education rate than West Bengal but none more than Kerala. Keralites prove it in their Human growth index and social security. Even their movies are best in India. What about West Bengal ?
@@spiritualseeker410yes typical chest thumping leftist.Hypocrites
Great analysis
Chinese civilization was highly influenced by indian civilization be it buddhism, yogic science etc
India has no civilization that wasn't imported in by the Moguls. Otherwise, the budoo-yogo mumbo jumbo of india is only practiced by arerikun middel-klass wimmens of moderate IQ.
chinese practice a bastardized version of buddhism. any indians worship a fat buddha that would make them rich? true buddhism was horrific to traditional chinese. yogic science--haven't seen it.
@@spiritualseeker410 i believe that the exchange of mumbo-jumbo (and callini it science) has something to do with the 19th century opium trade.
@@spiritualseeker410 Yoga is not physical exercises part alone, Yoga is way deeper than what you imagine about it. Yoga is not something like Tai chi boxing.
Is this guy related to Lee Kuan Yew? They have very similar speaking mannerisms.
It sems that Taiwan, Japan and South Korea have been able to reconcile liberal democracy with their own specific national traditions. Why not mainland China#
For starters, 3 civilizations are
Monotheist, Indian, Chinese
It's not the victors that write history but the historical scholars that deliver their judgement on history.
It's not about reading books or not. It's about distnguishing between books that are worth reading about a subject and the rest that are just a waste of your time. There aren so many books written about almost every subject and most are trash, often even academic trash. Maybe start by never reading a book written, or alledgedly written, by any (former) politician.
such a great mind
Watch out Cinese man...Mesoamerican civilization should not be underestimated!
"You cannot separate economic development from political responsibility." We've done that haven't we?
Great intellectual.
Sitting here in Canada, I feel like you have missed the fact that Native people and African people have other traditions but I can see your point that those cultures are not as dominant in the world as the 3 that you mentioned. It is funny to me to think that christians and Muslims are part of the same group but yeah you do have a point there. They come from the same root
Both Christianity and Islam are abrahamic religions. They believe in one book. They have institutionalized religions and both are helbent to destroy other religions on this planet.
The religion leaders are actually one person, I read that in one of the religious book
in any society, market cannot be the custodian of good. it has to the government of the day.
“Winner write history” everything is said with that statement. Research is up to the individual beyond public history tale telling!
Very nice
first time i hear someone considering islam and christianity as two sides of the same coin
For a scholar who has practised under the traditions and essential freedoms of the Anglosphere, he is remarkably lax in his civilizational 'trident'. Only in the broadest historical purview could the English achievement and phylum be termed Mediterranean; and the further conflation of Islam and Christianity is the broadest of brush. I note also his easy batting away of the freedoms of the individual and civil freedoms, granting a hall pass to the Party, and to its city-state underling and flag-bearer in S E Asia, by so doing (from the solace of his Australian passport and latter Sg). There is no escaping the truth that Western / Enlightenment (specifically its British and American forms) spawned a goodly measure of the Modern Era's successes: and the neat idea in his proposition that China can absorb and run with the tech advances yet scrub the humanist and political advances disobeys the trend of history. He is politely building in his rendering the scaffold for the Orwellian state with tech steroids at present in foment before our very eyes. In other words: his analysis is a cherry picking exercise. Of note : without doubt the Confucian cultural phylum / Han civilization has had and will have its place in the sun, but if that is a hard Confucianism destroying the soul... and demanding blind obedience or even oblivion, it will fail. The challenge for the Sinic world is to find balance... (something it rounds on the West for supposedly not having). Yet, look at: the extremes which everywhere abound in modern-day Chinese societies, starting with the obscene worship of extremes of wealth cheek-by-jowl with abject poverty, and notorious gambling of hundreds of billions, the infantile chasing away, swatting and "shooting down" of words in the Chinese cyber world, the entire approach to the C19 exigency followed by volte face, and the arrest of citizens for memes and cartoons. This cannot hold against the weight of history. In the same measure, by the way, aspects of the Anglospherical polity have become as unbalanced but in different ways. All are repudiations of the Enlightenment; which he seems to suggest is little more than a 'Western plot' to hold back China!
U read too much of end of history bullshit
That Fukuyama bullshit had made ur mind crap
Is written history really a history of winners? I would like to disagree here by pointing to the history of ancient Israel. I have another question: Isn't the division of the world into three different civilizations too rigid to be a good premise for scientific conclusions?
These are the three major ones that will shape this century tho.
@@popkhorne5372 History has shown that even very small events can often have huge repercussions. Predictions are always difficult when they concern the future. Apart from that, the discourse about cultures is a political discourse, not a scientific one.
I fear the "winner" will inherit a cinder.
Beautiful analysis, thank you ❤
2:40 prof wang didn't mention the persian civilization?
It lost to the islamic invaders
I think there is a bit of an ideological slant on things happening here. One major thing as a Westerner I would apologize to China for is the imposition of a ruthless form of Marxism-Communism from Europe.
The US is not a "civilization". To state it is is erroneous. Ghosh should know better than that.
The US is a colonial settlers regime. It can only developed through plunder.
The Wang Gungwu report ended Nantah
I disagree with the Gungwu's taxonomy. The West and Islam are separate civilizations. The US is part of the western civilization, the greatest civilization in human history because it allows individuals to be their best.
Three of the most formidable civilizations were unexpectedly overcome by nomadic groups.
And then all of us absorb them into our own nations lol
@@peterwang5660 own civilisation*
ST reports on the Ukr crises leave much to be desired.
Why
There are no civilisational differences or conflicts within Hindus. Its been advertised as such with the help of Dubious people with Hindu names but converted ideologies.
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He is the historian & UN and world politicians learn from him what is a country or nation to be ruled illegally by other powerful nation or king.
Summary: According to the guest, there's 3 ancient civilizations and China is one of them.
Now you can close the video.
How about CCP’s expansionist nature? Was that part of their ancient culture as well?
You got your civilization we got ours it's that simple. And now with the digital firewalls all problems seems solved we just don't meet.
I wonder how the people who went to Tienanmen Square and those who discretely support them think when they hear that human rights belongs to a Mediterranean civilization, not to them.
Regardless, everything becomes globalized, we need to learn to live under one roof - but how can we live in peace together without a common sense of justice? It doesn't have to be individualist, but I don't see anything better than universal human rights as that common vision. Let each contribute to fulfill them in their own way, drawing inspiration from Buddha or Confucius or other traditions, but don't deny them to your own people by casting human rights as a foreign invention, that would be the least patriotic thing one could do.
As for knowledge, it is a human good, so long as it includes critical thinking and open-mindedness, otherwise it might turn into censorship and prejudice, and nothing could be worse for someone who seeks knowledge.
6:30 if selffish dictorship control on top of capitalism, you will see someone like Jackson Ma, sometimes he can be the richest man on earth, but he can suddenly lose everything and even his personal freedom. No one would want to be in such system to do business at all.
15 mins was too I short!!!!!!
India's colonial conditioning is relatively recent, not ancient at all.
India is oldest country, roman found 169 kings written history when they came in india. Romans have written book called Indica about india.
Wisely China also didn't learn from the hegemony handbook....
Based
If you succed, we will make sure you FAIL ❤
America’s policy if you not on their side.
China n Tibbat completely different cultures.... Free Tibbat.
Free Kashmir and Jammu. They are Muslim different from Hindu.
@@jameschu4331 Muslims are new in Kashmir.. The name itself kashmir is a hindu name.. there are hindu temples older than islam itself in kashmir. So argument does not stand
@@jameschu4331 while Tibet was always a free separate nation and civilisation. Different culture and tradition from mainland china.
"People just want to read only 1 book." 😂
Free tibet
There is only one civilization in the world and other cultures and languages came from that civilization.
Guess ?
Indian civilisation
For China to survive as a distinct civilization, it have to be more than politics and political power.
.
Chinese people have to assert it cultural dimensional as well.
.
Converting to a Mediterranean religion make you lose it. South Korea is vanishing.
.
India is essentially about a cultural dimension mainly.
India will survive.
Also Chinese and Indian civilisation cannot be compared. Chinese has no religion of its past, maybe a fringe minority practices it....even largest religion Buddhism was propogated from India.
Whereas the native Indian culture religions ie Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism etc are still alive and growing.
Just because India has high number of muslims and christians....it does not strip away the civilisational status of Indians.
It’s the religion that you have in India that is dragging you down. It’s 2023, wake up!
“To b civilised like d West…”. Haha, an oxymoron that is!
USA is not an ancient civilization! (Yes there are many tribes but he don't consider it as civilization) but its the most powerful country!
The future is AI soon
🌎™
2:40
This guy forgot about the Australian Aboriginal civilization
Asian ???
what? please
He said 'ancient' civilisations.
Most are finished...only Indian and some parts of Chinese are left.
Rest were destroyed by Abrahimic religions.
japan china and the usa.