Lmao, no kidding. My guild that managed to get M'uwu week 1 recently spent almost the entire night shitting the bed on Felmyst. Difficulty: Either 0 or 10
For everyone still stuck on Brutallus: you can have each soak side huddle around the tank in a 2 - layered star formation. If you stand close enough for chain heal to jump but further than fire to spread the shamans can heal the tanks while simultaneously healing the raid.
How do you know your going to avoid the cleave with burn on? I get what your saying for the most part just feel like it's kind of tough to see exactly his cone and maintain the correct distance for chain heal. If there is an addon please link if not, this seems tough to pull off. Our burn targets are not the ones wiping the raid it's just tanks dying. If tanks don't die we kill
@@sebastianmonzon6285 if you get the burn just move out of the star formation and go to melee - they are off the the side behind the boss and are never hit with cleave
Best raid tier yet hands down. Actual mechanics and room for players to show initiative and improve. It's utter fun with my gamerdad guild. Won't raid this ID due to holidays in our country but the following ID Muru will bite the dust I hope. I want to clear the raid before nerfs and I'm a little anxious with blizzard seeming to rush things at the moment.
@@nickv3085 some players are frustrated quickly and quit if they see no progression. So blizzard swings the nerf hammer to keep them around. Was the same in T5. Makes the game worse but they don't care, just subs are important even if it irritates true Classic Fans.
@@RoxxSerm these players can just wait a little, and then do the raid with homies, that already got gear from Sunwell At least that how it worked back in the dayz :/
by the time our upper medium raiding guild started killing bosses in Sunwell getting my hopes up for the thoridal first legendary bow for hunters..... cataclysm allready came out
Bad run back is such a waste of time. Combined with the lack of teleporters inside the instance (or well-designed layouts in the first place) makes me wonder if Blizzard was deliberately _trying_ to waste people's time during progression.
@@DriftNick Less run back time means more attempts in a standard raid night. 4-5 pulls on Vash vs 10-15 on Brut. Before people give up. When a wipe does not take 10 min to recover from, people are more willing to keep wiping. It makes a difference.
@@American_Mike while this is true if you have a guild that’s raiding multiple days a week it doesn’t really matter my guild does 3 days on this garbage
@@insanity2929 If you have a guild that only raids 3 hours a week or 12 hours. Short runbacks, means faster wipe recovery means more attempts on boss before raid is called for the day.
For me personal TBC was overhyped in general ( even 15 years ago ). the outland never fitted to "my world" of warcraft. i played vanilla, retired in TBC and came back in WotLK continued with cata and after cata i stoped playing wow until classic came out ^^ and now 15 years later i still dont like TBC classic that much and im waiting for WotLK now over a year. i guess ppl dont change :D
Its a killer, yep. That and loot RNG, to a lesser degree. The fact a lot of people still don't have their tier sets despite raiding non-stop for months on end is a real bummer. It 'can' be overcome, but it makes it so much harder when half your available roster isn't pushing the numbers needed for certain encounters. Personal experience, still stuck with 2 piece T6 as a Survival Hunter. And prior to that I only ever managed 2 piece T5. Never got DST, never got any of the decent ranged weapons (P5 badge Crossbow is honestly a godsend, at least I'm not using a blue quality bow anymore, holy shit). If it doesn't drop, it doesn't drop. Hasn't stopped me raiding Sunwell, but I'm not able to push the numbers I know I should be doing on Brutallus (the boss we're banging our heads on at the moment, have the encounter down just can't beat the enrage yet). It will happen, just not quickly or smoothly.
@@andromidius I can't imagine how you don't have 4pc if you have been raiding consistently. The DST typically requires guild coordination so if you have been jumping guilds or taking breaks I can see how this is missing.
Our guild is having the same problem - first reset we didn't actually go into SWP at all due to holidays and sudden dropouts. 2nd reset we did 2/6 and tries on felmyst. 3rd reset we 3shot kalec - 1shot brutallus then wiped on felmyst for a long time (started off going with 2 priests) - when we switched to 3 priests we then got Felmyst down in a few tries (was like 27 total wipes i think). Managed the gauntlet and several attempts at twins (close to phase 2). Now this reset the roster boss has struck again and we only just got 2/6 down on our raid tonight - only 2 priests available. Hoping we have the right raid comp avail for Tues to get Felymst down and more tries on twins. I feel confident with 2hrs on twins we'll get them down. Then Muru is going to cockblock us for a month I reckon :P
Despite the numbers I would say KJ the 2nd hardest boss. The thing this doesn't account for is that anyone who is wiping to KJ has already killed everything else thus clearly a good group. If you can't get past brutalis you have no chance of beating KJ.
@@tobiaskogler3591 Depends on your role. For DPS, it is nothing more than a "are you using consumables, stacking cooldowns and pressing your buttons?" check, which you've probably been doing for the entire expac anyways. Very simple. For healers especially, it's not that easy of a fight.
@@haldir108 Oh yeah could be true. We have very good heals and tanks so I am spoiled. But when I compare twins to brutalus our heals whould surely say twins is far more difficult.
Brutallus was weird for us... we wiped i think 18 times in 1 day and the next raid-day we changed how players were positioned and we killed him in 3 trys
I think it's important to emphasize out that the number of wipes caused applies only to guilds who managed to reach that boss, so having less than some previous boss doesn't make them easier.
Yeah was about to write the same wipes/kills or trys per kill would be the better number here. even then not regarding that for now the "better" guilds only tryed and killed later bosses
Last week I released after a wipe not knowing that our shaman could revive and res everyone. I waited at the grave yard for a res and I saw an endless stream of ghosts running from the grave yard to the entrance. Non stop for the 3 to 4 minutes that I was out there. Sunwell is no joke.
It took almost 3 years but it's nice we finally got to the challenging content and it was hard because of the mechanics, not because of the gamebreaking bugs.
Sunwell has been such an interesting filter for what your raid lacks. Bad communication? Struggle on Kalec Bad prepwork with gear and assignements? Struggle on Brutalis Bad RNG is mostly the timewaster on Felmyst when you get gas and encap back to back to back. Bad DPS and suboptimal comps? Can gatekeep twins. We're actually struggling on this one right now. As a healer it just feels like were taking so much longer to kill the first twin that we rarely see phase 2 Muru is testing everything. Did you Prep, Do you know how to react to conditions, Can you communicate, is your Dps good, are your tanks fast? Then KJ has a high degree of personal responsibility and understanding of all the moving parts of a fight, do that and you get your clear
@@HarrDarr Brutallus requires a bit over 29k raid DPS, and mid tier guild can already struggle with that. So I wouldn't call 35-40k so low. Maybe for top 10% of guilds that's easy, but probably not for most guilds
Theres probably something to be said about the short runback, small instance and lack of trash in terms of progression. How many guilds would be 6/6 by week 2 if it took them twice as long to run back after each wipe? Allowing for only half the number of attempts before raid time is up and u have to wait til next week? 🤔
I hope you get KJ my guy! We're stuck on Brutalus still. SWP is testing our guild in more than just skill, we've lost 3 pallys, 1 warlock and an ele sham due to burnout
Sad to think how fast classic and tbc have gone by, before we know it, it will be the end of wrath. I wonder if I’ll ever have that feeling again of logging into Classic with my brother on day 1.
Hopefully we get at least 8 full weeks before nerfs come in. My guild's goal is to get at least 4/6 before nerfs and at least see pre-nerf Muru. We're 2/6 atm.
The speed of getting back into the fight distorts the wipe attempts. Muru really isn't that bad. it's just figuring out the timing on the transition. getting 25 people to have the dps in the right spot on the right time is very hard thing. It is very unforgiven. It's a massive amount of coordniation and you don't have time to have a raid lead just call out everything to be done. everyone has to understand if something isn't low enough health you need to aoe, single target or hold dps.
See the comparison of sunwell to SSC TK though Is kinda apples and oranges and the reason why is because they were out at the same time and took much longer to run then sunwell. Guilds had to clear SSC and TK in one lockout week whereas now they can solely focus on sunwell which only has 6 bosses. I think sunwell is harder then TK and SSC personally. of course my guild hasn't cleared it yet either.
Damn KJ has about the same numbers of progress kills than heroic Jailer in a bunch of weeks compared to months. Sunwell looks really hard compared to the other tbc raids but still is factually easy
getting hit by brutallus with 8k + 4k / 1sec break / 6k+3k is pure rng, there is no mitigation mechanic ingame which can avoid getting killed in that 3 second 25k+ dmg.
PSA: Yogg0 was killed by a total of *_TEN guilds in the world_* before the next content patch was released (around 4 months later). TEN FREAKING GUILDS And LK25H wasn't killed for 46 days after it became available. The 5% HPS/DPS/HP buff had already been out for weeks at that point, so NOBODY KILLED 0%! Those two fights are harder than anything in Sunwell. Most of the other fights are much easier than Sunwell, but not those two.
Yogg0 definitely, but Lich King, I disagree. 46 days isn't incredibly high since a lot of fights back during original TBC or WOTLK weren't downed until weeks after their release (not including some of the joke tiers like Naxx WOTLK, etc.).
@@Ryan_hey uh.. Naxx25 was cleared in 3 days... Basically as soon as they had 25 players of the appropriate level. OS3D died the following reset. Nothing else in the expansion lasted weeks except the two fights I mentioned, plus mimiron and algalon.
@@Falcrist Yes, just as I stated, the WOTLK Naxx/1st tier was a joke. Looking back at vanilla and TBC, clear times that took at least several weeks if not months were the norm. Hard is always relative to the playerbase's current skill level: Onyxia - 69 days, Ragnaros - 154 days, Nefarian - 77 days, C'Thuun - 133 days, Kel'Thuzad - 90 days, Gruul/Mag - 19 days, Lady Vashj - 73 days, * Kael'Thas Sunstrider - 130 days, * Archimonde - 97 days, Illidan - 21 days, Kil'Jaeden - 62 days Of course, some of these kill times are odd to compare side-by-side (i.e. T5 was released with TBC rather than as a separate patch). Regardless, we can still see a pattern of long clear times for WF kills.
my fav part about this is that even back in tbc, tanks needed a macro to ask for heals before taunting brutallus. people got better and game is more understood but some things still stay the same.
our guild has three raid teams, i raid in two of them on a healer and a dps, i can tell you that healing this ENTIRE raid is just mad stressful, while my hunter just casually watches his swing timers and does damage. also tank consumes on this are so expensive, almost as bad as Naxx was gold wise
Yes we go from tank and dps checks with very few healers checks into the game. Now every fight needs hard heal assigns and you got to pay attention. Most healers just eat cheetos and spam heals. that doesn't work anymore.
I will say healing SWP is the most fun I've had this entire xpac. We managed to 6 heal the whole instance last lockout and man you were CONSTANTLY having stuff to do. It's going to be very disappointing when this content gets nerfed.
Brutallus is skewed a bit IMO by how goddamn quick you can wipe and reset. If you’re having a bad night progging brutallus, you can burn 4 stacks of food in 3 hours no problem
My guild is weird. We'll domimate on fights deemed difficult, then wipe endlessly on the ones that people say are easy. We killed Brut in about 5 attempts, but get destroyed on the "easy" boss Felmyst (we have 1 kill). Same thing in BT. Everyone said council was the most difficult fight, but we got it down pretty quickly. Then we'd get our booty clapped on Bloodboil and Illidan.
Either bad strats on the bosses you're struggling with or dead weight players. For example on Brut your tanks and healers can carry really well by themselves. On Felmyst EVERYONE needs to be awake to run away from encapsulate. Similar with Bloodboil who requires a much larger portion of the raid to execute the mechanic correctly
It depends on individual performance and raid as a whole, brutallus is very basic, just tank taunts and good healing, dps only need to move when they get burn. Felmyst can be bad if priest isn't dispelling on time, or when groups don't move as quick on encapsulate. Also some people are still stacked up when ground phase ends and they get lazerd down while she's flying. It's all about adaptation of the entire raid, cause every boss is completely different in swp. Same goes with bloodboil, if people aren't absorbing stacks, they can fuck the entire raid. BT isn't fully dependable on individual performance(unless you're a tank probably) and synergy as it is SWP, small mistakes can be forgiven in most fights in BT.
“I feel this is a boss where you can legitimately lose half your raid at some point or have a bad pull and still be able to turn it into a scrappy kill.” I’ve only been playing TBC Classic casually, but I raided pretty seriously from Wrath through Legion, and that comment made me smile, just remembering all of the “scrappy kills” that I and my guildies got over the years… scrappy kills are the best kills, when the boss is at 1 or 2% and you’re down to a handful of players… I remember one in particular during Dragon Soul on Heroic Morchok when the other team got Kohcrom down but all died, and I was tanking Morchok on my blood DK and was the last man standing, and just barely managed to finish him off before he killed me. Good times, great memories.
We had felmyst at 1HP as she was going to flight phase. She bugged and was unkillable. This made is very sad as it was gonna be our 2nd felmyst kill so that we could spend our Monday raid progressing eredar twins.
Haha, I remember our first 4 horsemen kill, it took like 15 minutes. So far, Kalecgos has been a scrappy kill every week due to people dying from stacks or tanks getting violated in the enrage phase, and the last 10 people manage to get the last few % down. Brutallus and Felmyst are rather safe, other than a few insane damage spikes from Brutallus from time to time.
classic players know a lot about the game. in theory. they know every single detail about classes and patches and gearchoices. still, they have stopped playing retail in cata/mop/wod and missed out on a massive amount of progression for the average player, enforced by things like m+ and modern era mechanics on bosses.
Interesting nostalgia and interesting stats i stumbled on, the opinions from a melee are pretty worthless tho, herp derp melee that is thinks actually using his utility for the first time on KJ makes it a modern fight.
I joined a fairly sweaty guild for this tier and we beat it on week 3. Still we had almost 100 wipes combined. I had to completely change my playstyle as a healer because it's just a whole new level than before.
Should also take into account vashj and kt were bugged for the first 2 weeks and would just kill raids randomly or reset so alot of guilds just didn't bother.
Yeah that's true, and a lot more Trashpacks to deal with. Also the fact that even if you managed to kill one of them, the share size of the raids, and the time it took to run back (SSC) made it hard to clear both raids in a week. If you raided say 2 times a week 3 hours, actually getting time to progress on KT and Vashj was difficult. My guild struggled a lot with Vashj, but got KT down pretty fast once we gave it a go and had time to try it
My guild got M'uru down to like 26% last night. Makin progress, I'm just hopiing Blizz doesn't hit the zone with the nerfs for a couple months at least.
Final two bosses in pre nerf tier 5 is probably the hardest imo. Both Naxx and SWP are final expansion raids, which means many guilds burnt out very fast, even on first week. I know in my server few guilds who didn't even try after first reset, because they don't really give a crap about this raid and thinking about Wrath already. The level of commitment for tier 5 was higher overall from what I've seen, and still less % of guilds cleared them after two resets. However, the bosses before Vash/KT were for certain easier than SWP bosses
Excellent content as always WillE! Where do you get those transparent background boss models from?? Like KJ at 8:30 . Would be very much appreciated!! Thank you 😄
the main reason is wipe recovery time. You are making 4-5 pulls on Vashj with recovery CDs, and only 1-3 without any recovery. You can make 10 tries on Brutallus in hour easy
My dad guild just finished Monday, raiding two days a week for 2.5 hours each night. 27 wipes on muru, 20 wipes on KJ. it's all about your strat and raid leader. Luckily we have a great raid leader and above average raiders, so despite being pretty casual we cleared without much difficulty
Its not that hard my guilds second run have it down to under 1hr30mins while clearing all trash required for a speed clear. Mean while main run is pushing 1hr.
I gotta say my guild has your accounting of brutallus and felmyst and twins flipped we killed brutallus in 4 attempts and it was clear we were going to kill it after 2, but felmyst and twins took alot more time
We got 6/6 in 1 week. Mechanics are laughable. SWP is a retard and gear check. Mythic and heroic difficulty is harder than anything in classic.It’s classic andys like you that make raids in classic difficult because they can’t even execute a simple mechanic
felmyst
difficulty: "is she going mid or south?"
i felt that lmao
felmyst
difficulty: "is the pepega group gonna get the encapsulate?"
thats more like what we struggled with kek
just go north 4Head
"Felmyst difficulty: Is she going mid or south?"
The fate of many lost souls.
just stay north for both of those so it doesnt matter?
North stay north .... Wait!! Head South! SHIT!.... Wipe it!
Lmao, no kidding. My guild that managed to get M'uwu week 1 recently spent almost the entire night shitting the bed on Felmyst.
Difficulty: Either 0 or 10
For everyone still stuck on Brutallus: you can have each soak side huddle around the tank in a 2 - layered star formation. If you stand close enough for chain heal to jump but further than fire to spread the shamans can heal the tanks while simultaneously healing the raid.
How do you know your going to avoid the cleave with burn on? I get what your saying for the most part just feel like it's kind of tough to see exactly his cone and maintain the correct distance for chain heal. If there is an addon please link if not, this seems tough to pull off. Our burn targets are not the ones wiping the raid it's just tanks dying. If tanks don't die we kill
@@sebastianmonzon6285 if you get the burn just move out of the star formation and go to melee - they are off the the side behind the boss and are never hit with cleave
Best raid tier yet hands down. Actual mechanics and room for players to show initiative and improve. It's utter fun with my gamerdad guild. Won't raid this ID due to holidays in our country but the following ID Muru will bite the dust I hope. I want to clear the raid before nerfs and I'm a little anxious with blizzard seeming to rush things at the moment.
Why they plan on nerfing is beyond me. Gamers are better now than then, let people progress through a small challenge ffs.
@@nickv3085 some players are frustrated quickly and quit if they see no progression. So blizzard swings the nerf hammer to keep them around. Was the same in T5.
Makes the game worse but they don't care, just subs are important even if it irritates true Classic Fans.
@@RoxxSerm these players can just wait a little, and then do the raid with homies, that already got gear from Sunwell
At least that how it worked back in the dayz :/
How do you know if someone’s a “gamer dad” don’t worry, they’ll tell you. “Muh holidays” 😂
Our guild wiped on twins 5 times from the ledge boss.
it happens at least once a raid
I dont remember if it was the first kill or the second one on twins that our resto druid fell and asspulled. combat ress and easy kill XD
by the time our upper medium raiding guild started killing bosses in Sunwell getting my hopes up for the thoridal first legendary bow for hunters..... cataclysm allready came out
Thori'Deez nuts!
Run back is a BIG reason why there are lots of attempts compared to literally all the other raids other than Gruul Mag....
Bad run back is such a waste of time. Combined with the lack of teleporters inside the instance (or well-designed layouts in the first place) makes me wonder if Blizzard was deliberately _trying_ to waste people's time during progression.
How does the run back affect how many attempts it takes to kill the boss?
@@DriftNick Less run back time means more attempts in a standard raid night. 4-5 pulls on Vash vs 10-15 on Brut. Before people give up. When a wipe does not take 10 min to recover from, people are more willing to keep wiping. It makes a difference.
@@American_Mike while this is true if you have a guild that’s raiding multiple days a week it doesn’t really matter my guild does 3 days on this garbage
@@insanity2929 If you have a guild that only raids 3 hours a week or 12 hours. Short runbacks, means faster wipe recovery means more attempts on boss before raid is called for the day.
Clearing since 1st week in a gbid half pugged raid, you guys are nuts idk.
As melee just run around KJ during Shadow Spikes and youll never get hit
Wonder where the roster boss slots in for this raiding teir. : /
For me personal TBC was overhyped in general ( even 15 years ago ). the outland never fitted to "my world" of warcraft. i played vanilla, retired in TBC and came back in WotLK continued with cata and after cata i stoped playing wow until classic came out ^^ and now 15 years later i still dont like TBC classic that much and im waiting for WotLK now over a year. i guess ppl dont change :D
well fix the timers of dbm or WA s then it would be 50% less ^^^
CAA the we are Elite Guild....
you mean overwhipped XD
Is gear free because every video i see of classic wow everyone is BIS.
raid isnt hard, just most tbc players are potatoes
Ah! Is z2u credible? yup,
The real challenge of this tier is the rosterboss
“Sorry dude my cat is graduating, can’t make the raid”
Always was
Its a killer, yep. That and loot RNG, to a lesser degree. The fact a lot of people still don't have their tier sets despite raiding non-stop for months on end is a real bummer. It 'can' be overcome, but it makes it so much harder when half your available roster isn't pushing the numbers needed for certain encounters.
Personal experience, still stuck with 2 piece T6 as a Survival Hunter. And prior to that I only ever managed 2 piece T5. Never got DST, never got any of the decent ranged weapons (P5 badge Crossbow is honestly a godsend, at least I'm not using a blue quality bow anymore, holy shit). If it doesn't drop, it doesn't drop. Hasn't stopped me raiding Sunwell, but I'm not able to push the numbers I know I should be doing on Brutallus (the boss we're banging our heads on at the moment, have the encounter down just can't beat the enrage yet). It will happen, just not quickly or smoothly.
@@andromidius I can't imagine how you don't have 4pc if you have been raiding consistently. The DST typically requires guild coordination so if you have been jumping guilds or taking breaks I can see how this is missing.
Our guild is having the same problem - first reset we didn't actually go into SWP at all due to holidays and sudden dropouts. 2nd reset we did 2/6 and tries on felmyst. 3rd reset we 3shot kalec - 1shot brutallus then wiped on felmyst for a long time (started off going with 2 priests) - when we switched to 3 priests we then got Felmyst down in a few tries (was like 27 total wipes i think). Managed the gauntlet and several attempts at twins (close to phase 2). Now this reset the roster boss has struck again and we only just got 2/6 down on our raid tonight - only 2 priests available. Hoping we have the right raid comp avail for Tues to get Felymst down and more tries on twins. I feel confident with 2hrs on twins we'll get them down.
Then Muru is going to cockblock us for a month I reckon :P
Despite the numbers I would say KJ the 2nd hardest boss. The thing this doesn't account for is that anyone who is wiping to KJ has already killed everything else thus clearly a good group. If you can't get past brutalis you have no chance of beating KJ.
KJ is hard until you figure it out, then its very easy. Muru\brutallus are still hard after you figure it out...imo anyway
@@lrched I disagree, Brutalus is super easy. KJ is harder than everyboss except Muru.
@@haguenz this. brutalus is easy
@@tobiaskogler3591 Depends on your role. For DPS, it is nothing more than a "are you using consumables, stacking cooldowns and pressing your buttons?" check, which you've probably been doing for the entire expac anyways. Very simple.
For healers especially, it's not that easy of a fight.
@@haldir108 Oh yeah could be true. We have very good heals and tanks so I am spoiled. But when I compare twins to brutalus our heals whould surely say twins is far more difficult.
Brutallus was weird for us... we wiped i think 18 times in 1 day and the next raid-day we changed how players were positioned and we killed him in 3 trys
We did the v-shape tactics and beat him in no time. Twins slapped our asses first ID. Muru raped us 40 times. I like the raid tho.
yea for sure. he is very easy as soon as you get the right position and the heals properly assigned.
I lost it when i saw the difficulty for Mu’ru was just “Good luck” 😂🤣😂🤣
I think it's important to emphasize out that the number of wipes caused applies only to guilds who managed to reach that boss, so having less than some previous boss doesn't make them easier.
Yeah was about to write the same wipes/kills or trys per kill would be the better number here. even then not regarding that for now the "better" guilds only tryed and killed later bosses
Last week I released after a wipe not knowing that our shaman could revive and res everyone. I waited at the grave yard for a res and I saw an endless stream of ghosts running from the grave yard to the entrance. Non stop for the 3 to 4 minutes that I was out there. Sunwell is no joke.
with my gild i have nearly 30 trys for muru, kj was so easy 5 trys.
Bro non stop waves of ghosts every time we wiped it's crazy to see
It took almost 3 years but it's nice we finally got to the challenging content and it was hard because of the mechanics, not because of the gamebreaking bugs.
Sunwell has been such an interesting filter for what your raid lacks.
Bad communication? Struggle on Kalec
Bad prepwork with gear and assignements? Struggle on Brutalis
Bad RNG is mostly the timewaster on Felmyst when you get gas and encap back to back to back.
Bad DPS and suboptimal comps? Can gatekeep twins. We're actually struggling on this one right now. As a healer it just feels like were taking so much longer to kill the first twin that we rarely see phase 2
Muru is testing everything. Did you Prep, Do you know how to react to conditions, Can you communicate, is your Dps good, are your tanks fast?
Then KJ has a high degree of personal responsibility and understanding of all the moving parts of a fight, do that and you get your clear
Are you a filthy fucking casual?
Muru is mostly a dps check.
@@ianbrannan9608 its a very low dps check, only need 35-40k raid dps to transition to p2 in 120s
@@HarrDarr Brutallus requires a bit over 29k raid DPS, and mid tier guild can already struggle with that. So I wouldn't call 35-40k so low. Maybe for top 10% of guilds that's easy, but probably not for most guilds
@@holysecret2 about half of this dps is aoe btw, only need 25k on muru itself.
Theres probably something to be said about the short runback, small instance and lack of trash in terms of progression. How many guilds would be 6/6 by week 2 if it took them twice as long to run back after each wipe? Allowing for only half the number of attempts before raid time is up and u have to wait til next week? 🤔
We are at 5/6 right now and Tuesday is our first KJ only evening.
Hope we can close the final chapter there ! Gl for all of you 🙂
I hope you get KJ my guy! We're stuck on Brutalus still. SWP is testing our guild in more than just skill, we've lost 3 pallys, 1 warlock and an ele sham due to burnout
bring bombs for the adds at the start, they're worse than KJ :D
@@kriss1_ we failed to kill KJ...missing players all over the place. First 90 min with 24 people etc...so annoying
third muru kill today and failed again to kill KJ tryed for 2 hours...dunno man...annoying
Sad to think how fast classic and tbc have gone by, before we know it, it will be the end of wrath. I wonder if I’ll ever have that feeling again of logging into Classic with my brother on day 1.
yeah what the hell. But then again, the patching was at a quicker pace than originally.
Hopefully we get at least 8 full weeks before nerfs come in. My guild's goal is to get at least 4/6 before nerfs and at least see pre-nerf Muru. We're 2/6 atm.
Good luck ! 🤞
We had roster issues on twins progression, but I'd like to down pre-nurf Mu'ru and then have it nurfed the next day
Hey Wille, can you do a video for people who haven't played since classic but are thinking of coming back for Wrath?
Try checking his video list. Tons of Wrath videos there
I'm currently 1/6 in SWP tanks getting destroyed on brutalis and we probably don't have the dps to beat enrage timer
I just want Blizz to take care of the obvious bots and people who buy gold. GDKPs have ruined Classic.
The speed of getting back into the fight distorts the wipe attempts. Muru really isn't that bad. it's just figuring out the timing on the transition. getting 25 people to have the dps in the right spot on the right time is very hard thing. It is very unforgiven. It's a massive amount of coordniation and you don't have time to have a raid lead just call out everything to be done. everyone has to understand if something isn't low enough health you need to aoe, single target or hold dps.
please blizzard make Icecrown Citadel + Ulduar mega harder we love hard content
i miss intro with bald gnome Wille
Muru difficulty: Yes.
I was a holy pally in og tbc and i can tell you brutallus was easily the most white-knuckle experience ive ever had in a video game 😂
See the comparison of sunwell to SSC TK though Is kinda apples and oranges and the reason why is because they were out at the same time and took much longer to run then sunwell. Guilds had to clear SSC and TK in one lockout week whereas now they can solely focus on sunwell which only has 6 bosses. I think sunwell is harder then TK and SSC personally. of course my guild hasn't cleared it yet either.
I think T5 was longer and had more frustrating trash. There’s no way the bosses were harder.
World first comment on a Willie video! (Love the content mate
M'uru is pretty nuts and were playing the nerfed version that has no spell pushback. Blizzard was high designing this boss.
Damn KJ has about the same numbers of progress kills than heroic Jailer in a bunch of weeks compared to months.
Sunwell looks really hard compared to the other tbc raids but still is factually easy
the healing i think is the biggest issue in sunwell because healing is so tightly tuned
getting hit by brutallus with 8k + 4k / 1sec break / 6k+3k is pure rng, there is no mitigation mechanic ingame which can avoid getting killed in that 3 second 25k+ dmg.
Just needs to be healed then
Having druids with hots rolling along with other healers would be enough. If you have trouble with brut good luck with muru
get permanently overhealed is the only solution there
PSA: Yogg0 was killed by a total of *_TEN guilds in the world_* before the next content patch was released (around 4 months later).
TEN FREAKING GUILDS
And LK25H wasn't killed for 46 days after it became available. The 5% HPS/DPS/HP buff had already been out for weeks at that point, so NOBODY KILLED 0%!
Those two fights are harder than anything in Sunwell. Most of the other fights are much easier than Sunwell, but not those two.
Yogg0 definitely, but Lich King, I disagree. 46 days isn't incredibly high since a lot of fights back during original TBC or WOTLK weren't downed until weeks after their release (not including some of the joke tiers like Naxx WOTLK, etc.).
I also disagree with Lich, was not a hard boss. My mediocre guild even got to him
@@Ryan_hey uh.. Naxx25 was cleared in 3 days... Basically as soon as they had 25 players of the appropriate level.
OS3D died the following reset.
Nothing else in the expansion lasted weeks except the two fights I mentioned, plus mimiron and algalon.
@@Falcrist Yes, just as I stated, the WOTLK Naxx/1st tier was a joke. Looking back at vanilla and TBC, clear times that took at least several weeks if not months were the norm. Hard is always relative to the playerbase's current skill level:
Onyxia - 69 days,
Ragnaros - 154 days,
Nefarian - 77 days,
C'Thuun - 133 days,
Kel'Thuzad - 90 days,
Gruul/Mag - 19 days,
Lady Vashj - 73 days, *
Kael'Thas Sunstrider - 130 days, *
Archimonde - 97 days,
Illidan - 21 days,
Kil'Jaeden - 62 days
Of course, some of these kill times are odd to compare side-by-side (i.e. T5 was released with TBC rather than as a separate patch). Regardless, we can still see a pattern of long clear times for WF kills.
@@Ryan_hey You should also put an asterisk next to C'Thun if you're using them to denote bugged encounters.
my fav part about this is that even back in tbc, tanks needed a macro to ask for heals before taunting brutallus. people got better and game is more understood but some things still stay the same.
Great moves, keep it up, proud of you WillE!
Looking at your UI WillE, I feel we both have the same levels of OCD in terms of screen layouts.... helps me sleep good at night.
our guild has three raid teams, i raid in two of them on a healer and a dps, i can tell you that healing this ENTIRE raid is just mad stressful, while my hunter just casually watches his swing timers and does damage. also tank consumes on this are so expensive, almost as bad as Naxx was gold wise
Yes though as a tank I appreciate that dailies give an excellent way of making back that gold
Yes we go from tank and dps checks with very few healers checks into the game. Now every fight needs hard heal assigns and you got to pay attention. Most healers just eat cheetos and spam heals. that doesn't work anymore.
I will say healing SWP is the most fun I've had this entire xpac. We managed to 6 heal the whole instance last lockout and man you were CONSTANTLY having stuff to do. It's going to be very disappointing when this content gets nerfed.
Brutallus is skewed a bit IMO by how goddamn quick you can wipe and reset. If you’re having a bad night progging brutallus, you can burn 4 stacks of food in 3 hours no problem
80 wipes in 3 hours? Time to disband
@@y0complexity my man you ain’t never seen brut if you don’t understand how it blows up resets
My guild is weird. We'll domimate on fights deemed difficult, then wipe endlessly on the ones that people say are easy. We killed Brut in about 5 attempts, but get destroyed on the "easy" boss Felmyst (we have 1 kill).
Same thing in BT. Everyone said council was the most difficult fight, but we got it down pretty quickly. Then we'd get our booty clapped on Bloodboil and Illidan.
Either bad strats on the bosses you're struggling with or dead weight players. For example on Brut your tanks and healers can carry really well by themselves. On Felmyst EVERYONE needs to be awake to run away from encapsulate. Similar with Bloodboil who requires a much larger portion of the raid to execute the mechanic correctly
It depends on individual performance and raid as a whole, brutallus is very basic, just tank taunts and good healing, dps only need to move when they get burn. Felmyst can be bad if priest isn't dispelling on time, or when groups don't move as quick on encapsulate. Also some people are still stacked up when ground phase ends and they get lazerd down while she's flying. It's all about adaptation of the entire raid, cause every boss is completely different in swp. Same goes with bloodboil, if people aren't absorbing stacks, they can fuck the entire raid. BT isn't fully dependable on individual performance(unless you're a tank probably) and synergy as it is SWP, small mistakes can be forgiven in most fights in BT.
“I feel this is a boss where you can legitimately lose half your raid at some point or have a bad pull and still be able to turn it into a scrappy kill.”
I’ve only been playing TBC Classic casually, but I raided pretty seriously from Wrath through Legion, and that comment made me smile, just remembering all of the “scrappy kills” that I and my guildies got over the years… scrappy kills are the best kills, when the boss is at 1 or 2% and you’re down to a handful of players… I remember one in particular during Dragon Soul on Heroic Morchok when the other team got Kohcrom down but all died, and I was tanking Morchok on my blood DK and was the last man standing, and just barely managed to finish him off before he killed me. Good times, great memories.
We had felmyst at 1HP as she was going to flight phase.
She bugged and was unkillable.
This made is very sad as it was gonna be our 2nd felmyst kill so that we could spend our Monday raid progressing eredar twins.
Haha, I remember our first 4 horsemen kill, it took like 15 minutes. So far, Kalecgos has been a scrappy kill every week due to people dying from stacks or tanks getting violated in the enrage phase, and the last 10 people manage to get the last few % down. Brutallus and Felmyst are rather safe, other than a few insane damage spikes from Brutallus from time to time.
Kinda triggered at 4:30 that you use the ICC mount design instead of proper Felmyst one x)
classic players know a lot about the game. in theory. they know every single detail about classes and patches and gearchoices. still, they have stopped playing retail in cata/mop/wod and missed out on a massive amount of progression for the average player, enforced by things like m+ and modern era mechanics on bosses.
zero lights on the end of week 2 will be 100 guilds max
My humble guild contributed to that statistic w 100+ wipes on M'uru
Damn if I still played this would have been so much fun. Nothing more fun to heal than the fights designed to test healers
No mention of the UC elevator?
Lol challenge people explaining basic bullshit in the comments (difficulty impossible)
Did you filter out the bugged log RP "wipes" on Brutallus? Almost every kill has at least one of these in the logs.
Interesting nostalgia and interesting stats i stumbled on, the opinions from a melee are pretty worthless tho, herp derp melee that is thinks actually using his utility for the first time on KJ makes it a modern fight.
If ppl wipe to felmyst I feel sry for them in Utgarde pinnacle on skadi boss who have same breath mechanic 😂
I joined a fairly sweaty guild for this tier and we beat it on week 3. Still we had almost 100 wipes combined. I had to completely change my playstyle as a healer because it's just a whole new level than before.
To be fair, thinking 16 year old content is hard is bit dumb imo.
How did you get those numbers ? Is there a statistic on warcraftlogs or ?
Should also take into account vashj and kt were bugged for the first 2 weeks and would just kill raids randomly or reset so alot of guilds just didn't bother.
Yeah that's true, and a lot more Trashpacks to deal with. Also the fact that even if you managed to kill one of them, the share size of the raids, and the time it took to run back (SSC) made it hard to clear both raids in a week. If you raided say 2 times a week 3 hours, actually getting time to progress on KT and Vashj was difficult. My guild struggled a lot with Vashj, but got KT down pretty fast once we gave it a go and had time to try it
Just got eredar twins down tonight Miri Thursday fun times
I wouldn’t mind nerfs soon rather get geared up for wrath than burning through all my gold
i dont need to watch this video, it's the hardest classic raid
Ho, Why are z2u advertisements everywhere? yeah,
Me and my guild are in this video and I don't like it 😑
My guild got M'uru down to like 26% last night. Makin progress, I'm just hopiing Blizz doesn't hit the zone with the nerfs for a couple months at least.
89 wipes on M’uru. Still only 4/6. Maybe next week…
Final two bosses in pre nerf tier 5 is probably the hardest imo. Both Naxx and SWP are final expansion raids, which means many guilds burnt out very fast, even on first week. I know in my server few guilds who didn't even try after first reset, because they don't really give a crap about this raid and thinking about Wrath already. The level of commitment for tier 5 was higher overall from what I've seen, and still less % of guilds cleared them after two resets.
However, the bosses before Vash/KT were for certain easier than SWP bosses
Excellent content as always WillE! Where do you get those transparent background boss models from?? Like KJ at 8:30 . Would be very much appreciated!! Thank you 😄
the main reason is wipe recovery time. You are making 4-5 pulls on Vashj with recovery CDs, and only 1-3 without any recovery. You can make 10 tries on Brutallus in hour easy
My dad guild just finished Monday, raiding two days a week for 2.5 hours each night. 27 wipes on muru, 20 wipes on KJ. it's all about your strat and raid leader. Luckily we have a great raid leader and above average raiders, so despite being pretty casual we cleared without much difficulty
Its not that hard my guilds second run have it down to under 1hr30mins while clearing all trash required for a speed clear. Mean while main run is pushing 1hr.
Ah! I hate z2u. It‘s everywhere yea!
In this week we one shot kalegos, 3 tries on brutallus, 2 on felmist, 4 on twins and like 30 on muru, hoping to get muru tonite
Who asked?
Noob
Best of luck!
tip, for KJ, instead of looking up for the orbs you can zoom your camera all the way out and look down. much easier to see everything
We tripled the average muru tries before our first kill. That was we 2 >1% wipe (one of those was at 3400hp -.-).
TBC classic, a raid is released, within first two hours the end boss is killed. Retail: A raid is released, raid cleared after 1 month Lol
I gotta say my guild has your accounting of brutallus and felmyst and twins flipped we killed brutallus in 4 attempts and it was clear we were going to kill it after 2, but felmyst and twins took alot more time
Try KJ on mythic difficulty in Legion and this KJ boss version will seem like a joke.
Hmm we have opositte experience.. 17 wipes on Muru, 29 on KJ for us...
Ltbh once you figured out Brutallus and everybody know where to stand, the fight is super easy and chill in my opinion.
Even easier than kalecgos
Hah, you should thank your lucky stars that Mad died on that Muru kill. He was about a fraction of a second from wiping you.
We finally killed KJ last night and It took us 9 wipes and 26 wipes the day before lmao!
More like lots of responsibility that people aren't use to and more use to zugging like goofs.
We got KJ 36%. I never did p2 prenerf, but happy I saw the journey to the end.
We went 6/6 week 2....barely.
Hasn't been to bad for us. We die a few times but always clear it pretty quick.
No attunements here as well
I play on horde Ashbringer with avarage online of 40 lvl 70 ppl. no way i will ever see sunwell ): good job blizz. cant get enough ppl for trash even
Use a free transfer? I did that and transferred onto a better server. You can check realm pop online before choosing a server
Gotta transfer like the rest of us
Yeah I'm glad my guild transferred b4 BT
8 Mages and a healer clear trash...
I was on ashbringer but I transfered 6 months ago cos I'm not a brain dead moron
77 wipes on M'uru and counting due to a cursed raid comp that doesn't run many locks.
The real boss of sunwell is trying to get your whole raid to turn up. My guild is disbanding due to lack of attendance :(
Scrub guild, we have 4 raid groups clearing
@@art43541 damn thats crazy didnt ask tho
@@thewinner4me816 u jelly
@@thewinner4me816 didn’t ask to hear you cry about attendance join a bigger server
i dont get how Brut is hard stopping guilds. Mu'ru i get, but twins is worse than Brut.
72 Wipes on Muru, we are struggling... :D
Get more warlocks :D
@@akseliollikainen8301 83 Wipes, 1 kill, with less warlocks this time... !
@@spardinho I correct myself get better warlocks :D
@@akseliollikainen8301 struggle is over I hope, 2 wipes this save, much cleaner than before!
"but classic is so easy" - retail andys
We got 6/6 in 1 week. Mechanics are laughable. SWP is a retard and gear check. Mythic and heroic difficulty is harder than anything in classic.It’s classic andys like you that make raids in classic difficult because they can’t even execute a simple mechanic
one big save for felmyst, you can DI the encap target if its not going to be safe to let it go out