Pairing HiHat Cymbals | Ep. 5 - Cymbal Sounds
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- Hihats don’t really function without the pair but there’s no reason you can’t pair your own. In fact, purchasing single (typically used) hihat cymbals is often one of the best ways to shop for hihats. Today we demonstrate how simply swapping out bottom cymbals can completely transform a set of hihats without dramatically altering the feel.
Yes, we know about the audio issues. Unfortunately we don't have the original session to be able to edit this.
This episode is part of a series launched in 2020 on Patreon.
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CYMBALS:
Top: Old Istanbul K Zildjian
Bottom 1: Masterwork Jazz Master Bottom
Bottom 2: Jesse Simpson Custom
Bottom 3: Early American K Zildjian
Signal chain:
Mics - Focusrite Clarett 8Pre USB & OctoPre - MacPro w/Pro Tools 12.8
Recorded at 48kHz / 24bit
Focusrite Clarett 8Pre USB tinyurl.com/Cl...
Focusrite Clarett OctoPre tinyurl.com/Cl...
Full kit: AKG C414 (ear-distance)Snare drum & tom tom close mics: Shure SM57
Bass drum: AKG D112 (at mic port) + KAM R3 Ribbon microphone 8” away from reso
Hosted by: Cody Rahn
Production & Consulting: Ben O'Brien Smith @ Cadence Independent Media
👂🏼👉🏼🥁
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Interesting. I've been doing "unmatched pairs" for several years and always thought it was a bit odd, but I did it because I liked the sound. Thx for the video.
Same. My favorite pair is a zildjian a custom master sound bottom on the bottom and a sabian hh duo hi hat bottom on top
I use a 14'' Paiste Rude bottom on top, with a 14'' Paiste 2002 Sound Edge bottom. Very chunky sounding when played closed, very loud when played open, and a very sharp ''Chick''. I use them exclusively for live gigs.
This channel is such a gem.
I haven't so much tried different bottoms with different tops, but I have a Paiste 2002 15" pair of bottoms that are different thicknesses that sound pretty good. Also, I try my sets of hats upside down and sometimes that gives a different but equally good sound, or better if you want more crunchy articulation.
About 12 years ago, I saw a picture of a drummer playing with what looked like 2 zildjian master sound bottom hi hats. Both top and bottom were those wavy hats. I thought it was crazy, but I decided to experiment with it. I got a 14” Zildjian A Mastersound bottom hat as my bottom and a 14” Zildjian A Custom Mastersound bottom hat as my top. It was weird at first, but after a few songs with them, it just felt right. Still one of my favorite pairs to play to this day.
Over time (read "getting older" :-) ), my ears got more sensitive and small diameter and hight pitch hats really became almost annoying.
Eventually realized I tended to think like Steve Jordan claiming larger diameter hats make them more blending in with the overall sound of the drum kit.
Not going that far in diameter (he reportedly uses 17" Paiste combo of some given series), I found 16" was my personal sweet spot diameter-wise.
I played and messed around and finally settled with 2 bottom cymbals (all bought second hands but in mint conditions): one Paiste Rude 16" Crash/Ride and an Zildjian A Rock 16" Crash. Top cymbals may vary between an Istanbul 16" OM Crash, a Zildjian 16" Dark Thin Crash or a Paiste Masters 16" Crash.
The darkest and lower pitch would be the Rude bottom and OM top combo.
Brightest (and more powerful) would be the A Rock bottom and the Paiste Master top combo.
Then, any other combo can also be arranged if ever needed.
I've found cracked crashes can still work well as hihat tops, too- I bought a cracked Dark Thin K 15" crash I've been playing as a top hihat for 3 years now and it's never cracked more from where I drilled it out, and I more recently picked up an Istanbul 18 Traditional Dark that was also cracked. Drilled it out, and I don't know that I would trust crashing on it, but it's done great as part of a large hihat combination! Both of those cymbals were super cheap (~$25) marketplace finds that I'm thrilled with having added to my collection.
15" byzance polyphonic top hat, 15" byzance brilliant bottom hat always
While going through a small crash phase, I picked up a 14" Sabian HHXplosion crash. Then on a whim a year or so later I bought a 14" (1440g) Sabian HH hi-hat bottom, which I expected to use as a stack - but I wanted to experiment all the same. After trying them out I sold my other hi-hats the following day and haven't looked back, which still shocks me since I've tried more hi-hats then I care to think of - never finding one that I felt fit what I was after.
Maybe the most interesting part to me is despite them both being "Dark" cymbals, the pair sound remarkably bright.
Rock drummer that likes adding in Latin/jazz textures into their drumming. I managed to snag a 14" Benny greb sand top, light articulate and dry which I really liked but needed more volume and a little more wildness, so I have it paired with a zildjan master sound that has a triangular chunk out of it. Great for loud playing that still has a cool dry texture with sustain
I haven't ever owned a 'matched' pair of hi-hats. My current faves are a Bosphorus Traditional thin top over an A Custom Mastersound bottom. I love experimenting with new pairs. Great discussion!
Fun video. I"ve mostly experimented with putting 16" crash cymbals together to create a set of broad sounding hats. Current fav pair is a Paiste Traditionals thin crash top and a Signature full crash bottom. The first pair of hats I bought as a teenager in the 80's was Paiste 14" 3000 heavy hats. I cracked the top cymbal decades ago and the bottom cymbal was lying around since. I somewhat recently picked up a 2002 14" crash to use as a top cymbal. Sounds great! To me it gives off Pocaro sounding vibes.
Side note: the 80's 3000 heavy bottom is noticably lighter/thinner than newer bottom hats from different pairs I own. Descriptive branding can change with what's popular over time.
I haven’t played a matching set of high hats in decades. Sometimes I play a bottom hi hat on top. I have 12 pairs, and swap them around every few weeks
Nice! We’ve got about the same here at the studio along with a bunch of individuals. Always fun to experiment!
Great video, it can indeed be fun try out different sets of hats or stacks!
I've recently swapped my Sabian 15" Artisan hi hat top with a Sabian 15" XSR Monarch hi hat top.
So now they not only look very cool, but also sound a little bit dryer and lower in volume, still with the crispyness of the artisans.
I have a set of Zildjian K/Z hats from the '90s. Love 'em!
Apparently, mixing them with a heavy Z on bottom and lighter K on top became such a popular combination that Zildjian started selling them that way for awhile. They started making them again.
Classic! We’ve got a 13” pair of them from the 90’s as well.
fun fact: i took a set of k/z hats to Sam ash one time to see about trading them in...... the manager on duty was like "well this is a mismatched pair. IDK what i can give you for them."
okaybyeeeeee. I'll find someone that knows about cymbals.
By far the best hats I've ever used are the 13 inch K/Z dyno beats but I actually prefer the Z on top. I never thought having such a heavy cymbal on top would sound good but it's amazing.
For the past 25 years, my 15" Paiste 3000 has been the one for me... This one time though, I wanted to kick myself... In the early 2000's I walked in my local drum shop and they had a lone 3000 sound edge bottom for 65$... For some reason, stupid me did'nt pick it up!! If I had a time machine!!!
My at home / jazz hats consists of an old Istanbul K as Top (have to look up which stamp) and either a lighter Zanki or a much heavier Tosco with two air holes as bottom.
Have experimented a lot and own several single Tops/Bottoms.
I do the same with drums, have a lot of orphans and mix them up regularly.
If it works, it works!😂
Great content by the way!
I like like to put a second bottom with my "noname" turkish pair 1000g\1200g usualy it's a cheapest brass 14" cymbal available.. it makes hi-hats sound kinda close to white noise, dissonant and trashy..
Of all the experimenting I’ve done, hi hats has been the most fun and interesting. Also mixing alloy combos, b20 on top with a b8 on bottom is really interesting, so a master sound or sound edge with various tops is really cool. You can get something very unique. My fave so far is a zht mastersound bottom with an old ufip on top.
I technically have 4 "factory" matched hi hats, but I have 3 - 13" pairs, 2 14" pairs and 3 15" pairs, most of the 13's and 15's get switched around depending on what I want from them
I started doing mismatched hi-hats almost from the get-go because I had read that Tre Cool used a K/Z combo. So I got myself a Z bottom hat to go with my B8 top hat. That got switched out for an A Mastersound top hat and eventually I settled in with a Z bottom and a vintage Paiste 602 top hat. That remains my "normal" hi hat combo.
I don't even think I own a matched pair of hi hats anymore...
Also, what the hell happened to that Mastersound top hat? I feel like I haven't seen it in years. hmph.
My favorite mixed pair is a medium light, dark vintage Avedis with a light, dark K Light top. Not too dark and not too bright. Great for soft jazz.
Good stuff. I've been using an A new beat top with a K fat hat bottom {"15}. Gives me more definition when closed, but isnt overwhelming when open.
When I'm not using my favorite hats I use a Sabian b8 bottom hat under any top I use.
That said, I drum mostly heavier music.
This was amazing. I found y'alls approach fascinating. Encouraging me to experiment with my hi-hata even more.
I've never really considered this, good inspiration
That was great conversation, thank you 🙏🏼
Great video. I like that nice jazz playing.
Why don't people (me) mix sets? Probably because buying one set is expensive enough 😭😂
Ah, but if you get just a single hihat cymbal to combine with the other two, your options increase quite a bit!
What do you think, is it okay to use 14 hihat bottom and 14 crash top? Will it break faster in louder situations?
Depends on your technique and what condition your cymbal is in. Have played loud gigs and never broke a cymbal that wasnt already cracked...
I thought I saw a Zildjian prototype high hat in your videos before?
I’ve got a variety of prototypes here that we cycle through.
I can't really pair my hats much, because they're all different sizes. 🤣 I have: 8" Zildjian ZHT mini hats, 10" A Zildjian special recording, 12" mismatched 1940s A Zildjians (probably two bottom cymbals), 13" Paiste dark energy, 14" Istanbul Agop signature, 14" A Zildjian quick beat. I also have a Meinl 8" Generation X filter China that I'll use as a top cymbal, and a 13" Wuhan-style China I'll use with either of the old A's for trash hats. The quick beat bottom is bad for pairing - since it has no bell, it needs a heavy top cymbal to get enough sound out of it. Sometimes I'll use the quick beat top as a bottom cymbal with the Agop bottom as the top cymbal, when I want something in between the two 14" sets.
I mix match my second Hi Hat, a Paiste 502 top 697g with a Sabian B8 bottom 1131g.
My main Hi Hat are Zildjian A Mastersound top 1017g bottom 1450g
My sister gave me a pair of Avedis Zildjians for my 8th grade graduation in 1968. Gorgeous sounding pair! (I still have them, and you can still see "$20.00" written in Magic Marker inside the bell of both!) The bottom cymbal had the most lovely, liquid sound. So, being a stupid kid, I destroyed it within a few years. Then I searched several music stores until I found another Avedis that sounded close (I didn't know cymbal weights from Shinola back then--it was all by ear). That one is still my bottom cymbal today, so more than 50 years of use. I used the top cymbal for over 50 years, until it developed a radial crack near the edge. I finally retired it and replaced it with another nice, older Avedis Zildjian that I found at my local drum shop. I like it, bit it feels just a little too heavy for my liking. I'm going to take your advice and look through those 14s some more, and see if I can't find my perfect top cymbal! Cody, your regular pair sounds perfect to my ear!
Thanks for another great video, with pony tail included!
I have several pairs of Zildjian hi-hats so mixing and matching is a common practice for me. Favourite combination is a 14” Oriental trash top hat with a mid 1980s vintage Avedis Rock top hat as the bottom cymbal. However I would love a Sabian HH sizzle bottom hat with rivets to try if only I could find one!
Great video! I have 15” Sabian Flat Hats and 15” Zildjian New Beats! I’m going to try some different combos with those now, and even try some 14’s with them too for the heck of it! I’m always trying things to come up with new sounds, and this is a great idea! I’m also a used cymbals nut, and I also put bottom hats on top a lot of times!
I've been using a plain jane 14" Zildjan 'light bottom rock HH ' together with an A Custom Crash as the top for years, tried it once and it was just the sound I like with no bad ringing frequencies or such. My 2nd set for a tighter higher sound is a quickbeat top and newbeat bottom 👍🏼
I have a pair of mismatched old Ks that I've put together through trial and error. It's a new stamp top at 850g over an early 1900s K con around 1200g. Super chunky foot chick for jazz but great dark sound for playing with sticks, and enough articulation to play them like a ride cymbal a la Tony Williams
Thank you! The whole set sounds amazing here! Maestro Nate Smith recorded his second solo drums album last year. The Pocket Change series is an absolute game changer - check it out everyone! Could you maybe do a video about the incredible sound of the kit he used and how he managed to capture it so well in the studio? That would mean a lot to me and the entire Nate Smith fan base haha!
14” A New Beat Top, 14” A EFX bottom. Perfect for me. Got a pair of Agop dark 14s also.
a very cool posting nice I myself love to switch around different hi hat tops with different bottoms ...versa- vice and vice-versa in other words and get different hi hat sounds with different cymbal combinations which also include a top hi hat on top of another top at times or a bottom on top of a bottom....just depending on the response & sounds & feel that you're desiring to get out of it ....
Best hats I've ever used are the K/Z dyno beats with the Z on top.
Classic!
great video posting that you've put out and up ❤😊
Awesome video. I love them bright cymbals to my taste
Cool video man thank you!
Bruh I didn't even notice this was barely posted, I was just looking for a video to eat my breakfast.
Sounds Like a Drum…it’s what’s for breakfast! 🥁🍳😋
Have u done a video on high hat stands adjustments just wondering ,this a great video i will look out for high hats cymbals here and there from now on !👍🥁👋
We sure have!
Ultimate Guide to Hi-Hat Setup | Season Two, Episode 27
ua-cam.com/video/HtksttN62TE/v-deo.html
For much of last year I used 18” crash cymbals as a set of hats for the really quiet gigs. They were terrific… and finally caved in to a 16” set of actual hi hats which I love and use pretty broadly. In my case, for 14” hats I’ve preferred to have a heavier bottom as the constant and change out the tops for different sounds.