1) A simple way to start applying this advice is when playing, ask "Why did I get hit?" Or "Why did I wiff?". And the answer could be that they jumped out of the way. Then you make a note to read a jump next time. In practice it looks like this: He jumped, I'll stuff with fair next time. He spot dodged, I'll fsmash next time. In a serious game it's a very easy way to use your mental resources. During practice sessions, you want to get better at and better at identifying what you both are doing to each other and in response to each other (action, reaction). Action > Reaction: I dash attack > he shields it But you see more and more stuff like I moved forward > he shielded. The more you can see, the more you have to work with. 2) Burst range. Understand that within burst range, your opponent can't react to your actions, they have to guess what you'll do and act accordingly. That means that what they did was based off an assumption that you can punish next time. If I get into burst range and my opponent shields because they expect a Nair, then I can grab instead. Because of this burst range is a range where you can do multiple things to your opponents and they have to pick an option. 3) If someone sees your video and thinks "oh he just means baits and conditioning", they will likely stay mid-level. In a sense, your video takes baits and conditioning to a higher level, because as you mentioned, you aren't relying on your opponent being bad. You are developing a strategy that works whether your opponent is good or bad. So I understand why instead of calling it "advanced baits" you shift the paradigm entirely to something like "Action/Reaction" (I forget the way you phrased it in the video.)
Very good point on the end of #1, namely that the more you see, the more you have to work with. I mentioned in another vid about getting better really being about finding as many knobs to turn to tilt the table in your favor as you can and that can be hard since these "knobs" are abstract bits of information one plucks arbitrarily from the mess, and what you said is exactly what I mean! Overall though, very precise and accurate summary, dude!
Thanks so much for this comment. I kinda understood what Vermanubis was saying, but I’m a practical guy so the examples you gave in your first point really helped to drive this home.
Basically: Low and Mid-level gameplay is reactive to very obvious things like whiff punishing and anticipating certain habits like rolls and jumps. But High and Top-level are a series of reactions and anticipation to many more subtle options like retreats, jump frequency and height, general spacing, timings, etc, all while being aware that the opponent are scouting yours as well. Yeah, that's Yomi.
“Everyone’s got a plan - until they get matched with a roll spamming Little Mac that defies all logic.” Seriously though, this video’s got me enjoying Smash again. All of these SmashConceptions videos are great.
First of all, about the form : those #recap, #application and #misconception sections are great additions. As someone who also tend to have troubles at addressing something synthetically without losing some depth, they are the best way (in my case) to frame efficiently an information while keeping during the rest of the speech a (self) satisfactory amount of nuances. Second, as a mid (even low) level player, I think that the wall (in my case) is also about framing the game efficiently enough so I can address the issues mentioned in the video during playtime. First because the cognitive load of the game is currently too high for me (execution, observation, sorting informations, mental aspects, I often end up button mashing). Second, because I don't have enough knowledge (be it frame data or pratical experience) to quickly guess my oponent options and relevant choices (as well as mine). I would say this is the reason why some players might get very good at the game without much theoretical investment : they might have the necessary intuition to frame the relevant informations and engage in the level of depth you mentionned, without resorting to such conscious analysis (although at very high level it becomes mandatory, because a proper intuition must be fueled by formalism). Anyway, very good video (btw the music is super cool).
Thank you, mighty Kyatapie. Based on what you've said here, you obviously have the raw materials and it's just a matter of time before you find good ways to frame the information in the game. I'm very similar in that I have to take a very analytical approach to things before I get anywhere with them, but I also find that method pays off in unexpected ways. As far as coping with the cognitive load of the game, it seems you already recognize this, but just in case I'll mention things I've mentioned in previous vids that, yeah, framing certain things in certain ways helps reduce how much actual thinking you have to do mid-match, but also a lot of the intensive ideation occurs outside of the game where a person over time imbues ideas into strategies which then crystallize into muscle memory. As a result, most of the thinking done at high levels is behavior modification in the sense of cycling through strategies that have all of that thinking baked into them when the time is right. Glad you like the music too! 😁
I highly recommend checking out the melee library, it really helped me with understanding concepts such as zoning, neutral, pressure, etc. How you frame the game is kinda personal, but there is a right and wrong way for sure. I always look at the game from the persepective of the character I play, and I try to ask myself “why is _______ important?” for each concept I come across. Every single aspect of your character, advantage state, disadvantage tools, neutral game, range, pressure game, even weight, speed, kill power, frame data, oos options, how there dash effects there hurtbox, hurtbox size, every single strength and weakness of your characteral all relate to your fundemental goal in every smash game. To take your opponents stocks, until you win-and make it as hard as possible for your opponent to do the same. Go into every aspect of your characters strengths and weaknesses, or just general traits of your character-and what said traits entail. Even if it seems obvious. Then, organize those entailmenta into sections-and you have your strengths and weaknesses. Sorry if this dosent make since lol
This may go for others, but I realized I play in a borderline ultra instinct state when I play against myself and the clock instead of against the other person. By that I mean keep my habits to a minimum, accept the fact that I will get hit or even lose a stock, and most of all dont let any disadvantages shake me.
I feel like I understood this more, the analogies used definitely helped get the point across in an understandable way, it's very easy to forget something like this so it's definitely something I'll have to keep coming back to.
I love that you put your music behind this; it's always great to hear. Thanks for the video man! I hope you can get on a schedule so these take off more.
Could you do a video about making a mental flowchart? Like kind of explain all the available options there are. As well as explain what kind of options to do even add to a flowchart?
So, I think I need a couple of things cleared up. 1.) Are you basically saying that high level players understand the psychological effect of there opponent to some degree, therefore picking an option that will help them get an advantage in some way, or am I missing something. 2.) I would argue that practice does help you get across to higher levels, if you have the correct practice. My sensei said to me that practice doesn’t make perfect, rather perfect practice makes perfect. If we apply this to smash, then shouldn’t the practice from mid to high level play be about practicing getting into the headspace of your opponent, and therefore marking your practice in game have more effect because it isn’t mindlessly grinding and/or polishing up neutral, tech, and other game aspects. Thank you for making such great content, and I can’t wait for your reply... if you ever see this... In any case, thank you so much for enlightening me on this subject!
This was actually helpful and I think I'll try to come back to this video from time to time. There were a lot of good points there that I'll have to think about
Well damn, this is something I've only scratched the surface of. If I can get a better grasp on influencing opponents, maybe that'll make me less reliant on a mix of reactions and callouts. Though...where do I start? What tells should I look for to realize I've influenced an opponent's actions or that they're doing the same to me? Figuring out how to apply it without knowing how to get there can be a real struggle.
Just found this channel and I gotta say, I am glad. Content looks clean as hell. Just subscribed as well. I also have a question. What are signs that someone has graduated from Low-level to Mid-level? Right now I am in that weird limbo where I cannot discern my level of skill. I feel like I have the knowledge and strategies to say that I am Mid-level, but I also constantly doubt myself due to me still showing Low-level habits. Maybe it's just online with COVID and what not, but I don't know. I know there isn't a guideline that states "you have graduated from low to mid level," but I'm pretty sure there are signs that can help determine it.
Hey guys, thank you very much for all the nice comments. I appreciate you guys very much. Before I forget, two things: 1) The song: vermanubis.bandcamp.com/track/stolzversagen 2) Here's the vid transcript in case anyone needs it: docs.google.com/document/d/1hXDdq_t_VqDUjkP7LZ8_KWQ9JeQ5a4tJLwJBC3r3dBw/edit?usp=sharing
Great video! Since wifi is pretty much the only way to play Smash nowadays, I've been lacking a drive to improve at the game. But after watching this, I think I've regained at least some of that spark again.
Wow really insightful video here always love your stuff. I'll definitely be coming back to this video when I need to reminded of this concept. Doesn't just apply to smash but every other fighting game too.
Being a midlevel player is rough. I realize it’s going to be a struggle. Regardless of if I progress quickly or not I’m still going to love the game. Thank you for this video. It may take a very long time and I needed to hear this.
I think what you just described is referred to as "Theory of Mind", which is indeed a whole field of study. I guess Smash Bros. is a prime example of its application.
Hmm... You have brought up some interesting pointers. I have often wondered why at random intervals my matches were more thought out on my part when playing a decent players, ya know the type that doesn't stoop to cheap tricks for easy kills... Yet I felt I lacked that cognitive thought any other time. It was frustrating that I couldn't physically pinpoint the why and how... Through this conception, I have come to understand just a bit about my weak points.
personally id like to say the most improvement ive seen is never when grinding but actually when i take breaks from the game. Also Timo sucks, I want a runback after Covid and will drive other CWA guys over to make it a good tournament. All jokes and whatnot aside I hope you are doing well and keep up the content it really has helped me grow as a player.
It kinda sounds like you're saying that you just need to have as many option selects in place during predictable scenarios as possible to remove most of the guess work and focus on the few 50/50 options you can observe for habits.
Thank you Verm for this amazing video. I really enjoyed your input, advice and thoughts on different levels of play and this could really benefit those from mid-high level of players to help themselves adapt and overcome that block to strive on being better.
Do any of you review your own replays? If so how do you do? I find it that watching through the in-game replays isn't very effective as you can't rewind or slo motion
I agree, it's really not helpful at all to watch them on the Switch since things happen too fast without the ability to rewind or slow down. If you have no way of getting the replays onto your computer, my best suggestion would be to periodically pause the replay before it looks like some interaction is going to happen and hold whichever shoulder button does frame-by-frame which acts sort of like a slo-mo function
@@Vermanubis I didn't expect the man himself to reply - thank you so much, for the reply and the incredible content. If I knew you'd actually read my comment I would had taken the opportunity to say how admirable I think it is that you're following your own moral compass monetize your craft. I love how you prioritize sensing like you're providing value to your audience before taking the profit unlike others that give the value zero regards. You're probably being a bit harsh on the cricisim of your own work - as I'd say the value you provide is top tier, but I can relate to that as I've heard the same about myself. Anyways, keep that work ethic up - you'll get places man!
I find it interesting how you relate something like Newton’s Third Law to fighting games. Never really thought about this that way, it’s really interesting. Fantastic video as always!
Wow this really opened up my mind a bit. Such a simple thing yet we forget about it. I've been stuck on a rut for quite awhile now. I was pr in my state but never can get pass that #10 spot so this helps tremendously. Thank you so much for making this vid and hope to play one day. Do you have some kind of discord to join?
Yo Dyna, thanks sir. I'm sure it won't be long before we get a chance to play, and I do have a Discord, though it's been a little inactive for quite a while due to neglect. I'll be reviving it shortly though. discord.gg/uu4ZPByb
1) A simple way to start applying this advice is when playing, ask "Why did I get hit?" Or "Why did I wiff?". And the answer could be that they jumped out of the way. Then you make a note to read a jump next time. In practice it looks like this:
He jumped, I'll stuff with fair next time.
He spot dodged, I'll fsmash next time.
In a serious game it's a very easy way to use your mental resources.
During practice sessions, you want to get better at and better at identifying what you both are doing to each other and in response to each other (action, reaction).
Action > Reaction:
I dash attack > he shields it
But you see more and more stuff like
I moved forward > he shielded.
The more you can see, the more you have to work with.
2) Burst range. Understand that within burst range, your opponent can't react to your actions, they have to guess what you'll do and act accordingly. That means that what they did was based off an assumption that you can punish next time.
If I get into burst range and my opponent shields because they expect a Nair, then I can grab instead. Because of this burst range is a range where you can do multiple things to your opponents and they have to pick an option.
3) If someone sees your video and thinks "oh he just means baits and conditioning", they will likely stay mid-level.
In a sense, your video takes baits and conditioning to a higher level, because as you mentioned, you aren't relying on your opponent being bad. You are developing a strategy that works whether your opponent is good or bad.
So I understand why instead of calling it "advanced baits" you shift the paradigm entirely to something like "Action/Reaction" (I forget the way you phrased it in the video.)
Very good point on the end of #1, namely that the more you see, the more you have to work with. I mentioned in another vid about getting better really being about finding as many knobs to turn to tilt the table in your favor as you can and that can be hard since these "knobs" are abstract bits of information one plucks arbitrarily from the mess, and what you said is exactly what I mean!
Overall though, very precise and accurate summary, dude!
@@Vermanubis right back at you. These concepts are so crucial to crossing the gap that I'm glad you've made these videos.
Great summary!
Thanks so much for this comment. I kinda understood what Vermanubis was saying, but I’m a practical guy so the examples you gave in your first point really helped to drive this home.
@@kwolf130 glad to help
Such a simple concept that I always seem to forget when playing, great video
Basically:
Low and Mid-level gameplay is reactive to very obvious things like whiff punishing and anticipating certain habits like rolls and jumps.
But High and Top-level are a series of reactions and anticipation to many more subtle options like retreats, jump frequency and height, general spacing, timings, etc, all while being aware that the opponent are scouting yours as well.
Yeah, that's Yomi.
surprised your channel hasn’t blown up yet :/ this channel is a treasure trove of info
“Everyone’s got a plan - until they get matched with a roll spamming Little Mac that defies all logic.”
Seriously though, this video’s got me enjoying Smash again. All of these SmashConceptions videos are great.
First of all, about the form : those #recap, #application and #misconception sections are great additions. As someone who also tend to have troubles at addressing something synthetically without losing some depth, they are the best way (in my case) to frame efficiently an information while keeping during the rest of the speech a (self) satisfactory amount of nuances.
Second, as a mid (even low) level player, I think that the wall (in my case) is also about framing the game efficiently enough so I can address the issues mentioned in the video during playtime. First because the cognitive load of the game is currently too high for me (execution, observation, sorting informations, mental aspects, I often end up button mashing). Second, because I don't have enough knowledge (be it frame data or pratical experience) to quickly guess my oponent options and relevant choices (as well as mine).
I would say this is the reason why some players might get very good at the game without much theoretical investment : they might have the necessary intuition to frame the relevant informations and engage in the level of depth you mentionned, without resorting to such conscious analysis (although at very high level it becomes mandatory, because a proper intuition must be fueled by formalism).
Anyway, very good video (btw the music is super cool).
Thank you, mighty Kyatapie.
Based on what you've said here, you obviously have the raw materials and it's just a matter of time before you find good ways to frame the information in the game. I'm very similar in that I have to take a very analytical approach to things before I get anywhere with them, but I also find that method pays off in unexpected ways.
As far as coping with the cognitive load of the game, it seems you already recognize this, but just in case I'll mention things I've mentioned in previous vids that, yeah, framing certain things in certain ways helps reduce how much actual thinking you have to do mid-match, but also a lot of the intensive ideation occurs outside of the game where a person over time imbues ideas into strategies which then crystallize into muscle memory. As a result, most of the thinking done at high levels is behavior modification in the sense of cycling through strategies that have all of that thinking baked into them when the time is right.
Glad you like the music too! 😁
I highly recommend checking out the melee library, it really helped me with understanding concepts such as zoning, neutral, pressure, etc. How you frame the game is kinda personal, but there is a right and wrong way for sure. I always look at the game from the persepective of the character I play, and I try to ask myself “why is _______ important?” for each concept I come across. Every single aspect of your character, advantage state, disadvantage tools, neutral game, range, pressure game, even weight, speed, kill power, frame data, oos options, how there dash effects there hurtbox, hurtbox size, every single strength and weakness of your characteral all relate to your fundemental goal in every smash game. To take your opponents stocks, until you win-and make it as hard as possible for your opponent to do the same. Go into every aspect of your characters strengths and weaknesses, or just general traits of your character-and what said traits entail. Even if it seems obvious. Then, organize those entailmenta into sections-and you have your strengths and weaknesses. Sorry if this dosent make since lol
PR Player here. You are by far the best educational smash channel
Like. By FAR.. Keep going dude
This may go for others, but I realized I play in a borderline ultra instinct state when I play against myself and the clock instead of against the other person. By that I mean keep my habits to a minimum, accept the fact that I will get hit or even lose a stock, and most of all dont let any disadvantages shake me.
I feel like I understood this more, the analogies used definitely helped get the point across in an understandable way, it's very easy to forget something like this so it's definitely something I'll have to keep coming back to.
I love that you put your music behind this; it's always great to hear. Thanks for the video man! I hope you can get on a schedule so these take off more.
Dude , keep up the content!
You are probably the best and most educational smash channel around.
Thank you
Love these videos, they definitely help me think about the game differently, thanks Verm!
Please don't ever stop making videos. These are fantastic
I'm an old guy that took this game and you explained this better than anyone I've heard. Great job.
Could you do a video about making a mental flowchart? Like kind of explain all the available options there are. As well as explain what kind of options to do even add to a flowchart?
I could certainly try!
Damn. This was what I needed to hear. Thanks for the advice
This is really good. The way you explain it makes things really clear and easy to remember when playing a game
Babe wake up new vermanubis video
So, I think I need a couple of things cleared up.
1.) Are you basically saying that high level players understand the psychological effect of there opponent to some degree, therefore picking an option that will help them get an advantage in some way, or am I missing something.
2.) I would argue that practice does help you get across to higher levels, if you have the correct practice. My sensei said to me that practice doesn’t make perfect, rather perfect practice makes perfect. If we apply this to smash, then shouldn’t the practice from mid to high level play be about practicing getting into the headspace of your opponent, and therefore marking your practice in game have more effect because it isn’t mindlessly grinding and/or polishing up neutral, tech, and other game aspects.
Thank you for making such great content, and I can’t wait for your reply... if you ever see this...
In any case, thank you so much for enlightening me on this subject!
This was actually helpful and I think I'll try to come back to this video from time to time. There were a lot of good points there that I'll have to think about
Well damn, this is something I've only scratched the surface of. If I can get a better grasp on influencing opponents, maybe that'll make me less reliant on a mix of reactions and callouts.
Though...where do I start? What tells should I look for to realize I've influenced an opponent's actions or that they're doing the same to me? Figuring out how to apply it without knowing how to get there can be a real struggle.
Just found this channel and I gotta say, I am glad. Content looks clean as hell. Just subscribed as well.
I also have a question. What are signs that someone has graduated from Low-level to Mid-level? Right now I am in that weird limbo where I cannot discern my level of skill. I feel like I have the knowledge and strategies to say that I am Mid-level, but I also constantly doubt myself due to me still showing Low-level habits. Maybe it's just online with COVID and what not, but I don't know. I know there isn't a guideline that states "you have graduated from low to mid level," but I'm pretty sure there are signs that can help determine it.
Hey guys, thank you very much for all the nice comments. I appreciate you guys very much. Before I forget, two things:
1) The song: vermanubis.bandcamp.com/track/stolzversagen
2) Here's the vid transcript in case anyone needs it: docs.google.com/document/d/1hXDdq_t_VqDUjkP7LZ8_KWQ9JeQ5a4tJLwJBC3r3dBw/edit?usp=sharing
High level players win for doing mid level options, mid level players lose for trying high level options.
You have a way with words. Thanks for this very insightful video.
Great video! Since wifi is pretty much the only way to play Smash nowadays, I've been lacking a drive to improve at the game. But after watching this, I think I've regained at least some of that spark again.
I really liked this video. The concept in it is crucial to being a high level player in most pvp games.
Wow really insightful video here always love your stuff. I'll definitely be coming back to this video when I need to reminded of this concept. Doesn't just apply to smash but every other fighting game too.
i really like your videos, they're really insightful and help me out a lot. Thats all I have to say. thanks!
Being a midlevel player is rough. I realize it’s going to be a struggle. Regardless of if I progress quickly or not I’m still going to love the game. Thank you for this video. It may take a very long time and I needed to hear this.
I think what you just described is referred to as "Theory of Mind", which is indeed a whole field of study.
I guess Smash Bros. is a prime example of its application.
Hmm... You have brought up some interesting pointers. I have often wondered why at random intervals my matches were more thought out on my part when playing a decent players, ya know the type that doesn't stoop to cheap tricks for easy kills... Yet I felt I lacked that cognitive thought any other time. It was frustrating that I couldn't physically pinpoint the why and how... Through this conception, I have come to understand just a bit about my weak points.
personally id like to say the most improvement ive seen is never when grinding but actually when i take breaks from the game. Also Timo sucks, I want a runback after Covid and will drive other CWA guys over to make it a good tournament. All jokes and whatnot aside I hope you are doing well and keep up the content it really has helped me grow as a player.
5:16
So what you’re saying is brawlers in boxing are pretty much the same thing as mashers.
My god it all makes sense.
4:53 That Dash back was Godlike
It kinda sounds like you're saying that you just need to have as many option selects in place during predictable scenarios as possible to remove most of the guess work and focus on the few 50/50 options you can observe for habits.
i ALways dip my toes into the void but never fully dive in.
Thank you Verm for this amazing video. I really enjoyed your input, advice and thoughts on different levels of play and this could really benefit those from mid-high level of players to help themselves adapt and overcome that block to strive on being better.
Such a great video! Thank you for putting these together. You just earned a new subscriber :)
I need more of this in my algorithm
Thumbs up for everyone at the legendary stream.
So this is what Izaw meant when he said you have to learn how to punish your opponent even when they play correctly
I'd recommend ffa's as a beginners introduction to the concept.
My days this is a godlike video
Yess, feed me knowledge Smashy man
Verm you always make me feel dumb for not considering a simple angle, thanks for the vids they're incredibly helpful
Do any of you review your own replays? If so how do you do? I find it that watching through the in-game replays isn't very effective as you can't rewind or slo motion
I agree, it's really not helpful at all to watch them on the Switch since things happen too fast without the ability to rewind or slow down. If you have no way of getting the replays onto your computer, my best suggestion would be to periodically pause the replay before it looks like some interaction is going to happen and hold whichever shoulder button does frame-by-frame which acts sort of like a slo-mo function
@@Vermanubis I didn't expect the man himself to reply - thank you so much, for the reply and the incredible content. If I knew you'd actually read my comment I would had taken the opportunity to say how admirable I think it is that you're following your own moral compass monetize your craft. I love how you prioritize sensing like you're providing value to your audience before taking the profit unlike others that give the value zero regards. You're probably being a bit harsh on the cricisim of your own work - as I'd say the value you provide is top tier, but I can relate to that as I've heard the same about myself. Anyways, keep that work ethic up - you'll get places man!
The video editor can help with that. If you convert the replay to video you can then go and skip around in it.
Keep up the good work man your advice helps alot!
Great job with the thumbnail
I discovered you today and I m a fan lol
Love you Verm
Crazy good video. Love the content
Great video!!!
I find it interesting how you relate something like Newton’s Third Law to fighting games. Never really thought about this that way, it’s really interesting.
Fantastic video as always!
This concept is why I say all games are secretly the same game
what do i do if I'm a low level player? SSBU is my first smash game and i have a lot of hours but I'm not very good lol.
Very interesting video! Good stuff!
How wouls you buff the king of evil?
It's just so damn hard to remember to think!!
Mid level fall into the pit on bridge of elden but high level players know to jump over it
Long story short, be able to condition and adapt during battle.
I find it so hard to try to think while I play :(
Does this help for low level to mid level
This is exactly how I felt after playing players such as WaDi and Tarik, where I felt they were cradling me with little to no effort
Great stuff, to summarize (in terms of practice); Work Smart, not Hard
Summary: Conditioning and Adaptation
Wow this really opened up my mind a bit. Such a simple thing yet we forget about it. I've been stuck on a rut for quite awhile now. I was pr in my state but never can get pass that #10 spot so this helps tremendously. Thank you so much for making this vid and hope to play one day. Do you have some kind of discord to join?
Yo Dyna, thanks sir. I'm sure it won't be long before we get a chance to play, and I do have a Discord, though it's been a little inactive for quite a while due to neglect. I'll be reviving it shortly though.
discord.gg/uu4ZPByb
Now this, puts a smile on my face.
In other words, you should learn the "neutral de la mangouste"
Jesus christ this is good.
Commenting for the algorithm
new verm
new verm
Gang gang
Verm is so woke