There are two more seals that would also improve performance. The disk to wedge seal and the wedge to sphere seal. Without these seals, the engine is simply relying on air velocity to wobble the disk rather than a volume change caused by pressure.
@@derpinbird1180 there already exists 2 other rubber seals. Why should the two I suggest be made from plastic? Are you suggesting not sealing these regions?
I'm pretty sure if he just cuts the engine out and just lets the air flow out of the tube it's 100% efficiency with regards to moving air. (Which I believe is why he's using the propeller, correct?)
@@GewelReal you dont understand. The airflow he is using as power input will ultimately be the exact same airflow out as the propeller pushes. the system is useless.
@@orion1816 no, YOU don't understand. air out of hose may produce a lot of thrust, but it's not optimised for lifting something heavy. It will work way worse than a propeller unless your goal would be speed (it may not take off the ground as well as a propeller if at all)
While watching the video i abolutely thought the same, right up @TomStantonEngineering 's alley, hope he sees this and someday makes something cool out of it.
@@cancelhandles⚠️ God has said in the Quran: 🔵 { O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous - ( 2:21 ) 🔴 [He] who made for you the earth a bed [spread out] and the sky a ceiling and sent down from the sky, rain and brought forth thereby fruits as provision for you. So do not attribute to Allah equals while you know [that there is nothing similar to Him]. ( 2:22 ) 🔵 And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant [Muhammad], then produce a surah the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah, if you should be truthful. ( 2:23 ) 🔴 But if you do not - and you will never be able to - then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers.( 2:24 ) 🔵 And give good tidings to those who believe and do righteous deeds that they will have gardens [in Paradise] beneath which rivers flow. Whenever they are provided with a provision of fruit therefrom, they will say, "This is what we were provided with before." And it is given to them in likeness. And they will have therein purified spouses, and they will abide therein eternally. ( 2:25 ) ⚠️ Quran
A seemingly minor, but important distinction to all the budding engineers out there: the device shown here is a type of turbine, NOT an engine. The distinction being that an engine converts a different type of energy (thermal, chemical, potential, etc.) into mechanical energy. A turbine extracts the (already mechanical) energy in a fluid stream and turns it into work.
Im not an engineer but my first thought was: How is this more efficient than blades in a turbine? Considering this design never took off (I think), I assume it’s not.
That makes a lot of sense. Trying to use this design to actually power something is going to run into the fact that the mechanical leverage the air has on the disc is very low...so useful power output is going to be minimal.
Make sense as a sensor. Since the volume can be relatively easily determined. As an engine, however, I am not so sure... I am thinking just surface drag is probably enough to make the rod spin efficiently without the z shaft...
Dude, your idea with this engine is great. But follow the safety rules, don't stand in the plane of the propeller's rotation - it's dangerous! The printed part can break, and the blades can fly into your body.
That's a carbon prop made for pushing a couple hundred watts of power into air. This motor can't even turn it hard enough to get the air flowing correctly.
So, 3 ways to make this more efficient. First we have to understand the high torque low speed nature of this engine. It runs at exceptionally low pressure and doesn't go very fast. The first way to increase the efficiency would be to further stabilize the rod, as this will reduce friction. It was a tad wobbly. The second way to increase efficiency would be to add a gear ratio to the propeller making the propeller spin between 1-2.5 times per rotation of the engine. This would add friction but help the engine convert torque to propeller speed. The third way to increase efficiency would be to reduce the total number of gaskets used and make a more solid chassis around the disk, and reduce the size of the sphere in the middle. Using an interlocking chassis you can make a more definite tolerance, and use less gaskets. Reducing the size of the sphere would increase the total surface area of the piston without sacrificing too much volume or adding total size. I'm sure there is a 'too small' though as you could lose compression. You could also experiment with changing the edge of the disk only around the area of the intake or outtake, as well as getting rid of the gap around the fin that interlocks with the disk and chassis to reduce bleed from one chamber to the next. The disk tilts so maybe use a parabolic shape. This point goes in tandem with @acreery1 comment.
How different is your commentary from "COOL, Dude" standard responses I smell 150 minimum IQ Yes we can recognize each other my fellow even at a distance Though the feeling of loneliness is there, you are not, it's just because we are so few and separated
What if the exhaust goes to a second disk that is 90° out of phase? Then you get the exhaust's remaining energy powering a "mini-powe-stroke" in between your current power strokes. Also imagine printing it in metal and running it off steam! 😁😁
That's interesting. I'm wondering how this system might operate in an even denser medium, like water. If it was eficient it may find application in smaller scale hydropower systems. Just a thought, since I'm no expert in that field.
@@waynecooper6124 you'd probably need at least a little air to keep it from locking up mid stroke, or modify the design slightly so that flow from intake to exhaust is never completely cut off
@@waynecooper6124 hmmm... The main differences would be that liquids are incompressible and have higher viscosity. I suspect the lack of compressibility might be an issue cos if there are points in the cycle where both the inlet and outlet are closed water wouldn't be doing work on the "piston" (in this case "wobbly disk"?). The higher viscosity MIGHT be a benefit as adhesion has some effect on a rotary engine at the surface. How much of an effect this actually has I don't know. I thing a best of both worlds would be a supercritical fluid that has both the compressibility and the viscosity.
I love the simple principle. So neat. But you were brave to hold the propeller at 4 bars - I just anticipated the wobbly printed plastic shaft of the propeller to snap on you! Gladly - it did not. Nice job.
Heyyy... That's awesome! There's a super-common use case for that structure: the nutating disc flowmeter; we used them in the Navy. Really cool to see it in a novel application.
@7:12 the second valve improved the exhaust pressure and made it spin slightly faster than without the valve. Keeping the pressure high inside the engine.
5 years from now someone will make this a car/truck motor just like the guys who built the car that runs and drives off water. Great work🫡! Love how you explained everything with detail throughout the process.
Put a ring around the disc like piston rings from any internal combustion engine. That may improve the sealing, Good video I didn't know this tipe of of engine.
Add an impression into each side of the disc in the shape of your ignition chamber. As the disc goes up and down, this could add to compression and make it more airtight as well. It would take computerized timing to get right, but it’s probably a worthwhile step to try.
1. Reminds me of the ROFLcopter sound made by microsoft sam, soi soi soi soi soi soi... 2. if you send designs for someone else to print, make sure that either you have a patent or that the design is properly in public domain first, otherwise you may lose the rights to the design. 3. Here are the four horsemen of engines that work well in theory, but not in the real world: A. Straight, edged, or otherwise unfavorably shaped sealing between the main power harnessing element and the rest of the combustion chamber (Wankel, vane, rotaries in general, rectangular piston, the indexing key sealing on this one, etc) B. Non-positive sealing (Coates, rotary valving in general, the spherical axle sealing on this one, etc) C. Undampened full engine power going through a lashing mechanism, generally gears (Achates, Avadi, etc.) D. Exotically machined parts to avoid the problem above (INNengine, etc.)
This is a quality response. You've clearly understood the practical engineering issues at a granular level where most people don't see the subtleties. When I saw the Honda oval piston I thought, "That won't work well". They would have been better with a squashed circle profile instead of oval so that at least there was a constant curve.
Looks like a significantly less efficient version of a turbine. It's a great demonstration of the real engine, but probably not the best design for an air engine.
I came here to say this as well. To me, it looks like the air is just pushing it around rather than the proposed compression operation theory. Still neat though, especially the clear version. Not enough people make clear things
A better sealed version, especially one that actually HAS a seal to isolate the two sides of the disk, would work with any air flow rate and pressure, unlike a turbine. In essence this is a piston engine. Just a poorly sealed one, for now.
This isn't a turbine. Turbines rely on aerodynamic lift over the turbine blades and are tuned to work best at certain speeds. This relies on a trapped volume of air (or it will once it's sealed properly). I think it's a great idea.
@@jamescarruthers1967 You're right. It's less of a traditional turbine and more of a mix between a tesla turbine (also a turbine), a water wheel and a radial compressor run on reverse. I would love to see efficiency/power comparisons with other designs.
Intersting idea- its like a boxer engine but without the seperate crank shaft between the cylinders....but Two points to add- 1: Wear in the cylinder over long term operation- it would be interesting to see how much loss due to friction in the cylinder you generate. 2: Vibration - it would seem that having the axis of the "piston" disk at an angle would generate a fairly significant sideways/rotational vibration; so again something to measure on an efficiency loss
I suppose it'd be easy enough to add more discs out of phase with the first which may help with that start up (three times more likely for one of the discs to be in a good position to just start moving, but also heavier and may need more pressure to start). I like it!
This closely resembles a peristaltic motion of the air volume as it turns in one direction. Another example worth trying is the rolling piston engine. I think you will find it easier to make it more airtight.
nice job man. thanks for video. i think better to use air sealings instead of rubber gaskets. also you can make another sealing in edge of ufo shape. make its edge like a grave for air also make some holes in ufo up and down sides to guid air from out of ufo to its inside and then through air channels to air grave in ufo edge. this way a small portion of air will guide to edge of ufo and will restrict air flow from edge of ufo up or down. this way you can increase distance between ufo edge and cylinder. same you can do for rubber gasket with replacing by air sealing.
One - Congrats on getting me to sit and watch all the way through an advertising aside. You actually integrated the segue into your running commentary quite well, and had built good "momentum" by the time you got to the parts that were pure advertising. JLCPCB spent their money well here. Two - I would be interested in seeing you take this design in a second direction. I am very curious as to how this nutating turbine(?) functions as a hydraulic engine. I would like to see some discussion about its use both as a hydraulic actuator and as a possible water-driven motor for some kind of small hydropower system.
Cunnect the air out to your compressor intake or a "vakuumer"/strong dust sucker. In a fictive real live costrucktion a air compressor could be part of the circle by deliver positve and negative pressure at the same time. What about way larger wings and stronger construcktion and let the force be delivered by hydraulik over all? may be slowe the nair but way more force possible, so larger bladewings could be used. You made me curious at all^^
brilliant!, simple, you have a blow through freewheeling of air that is wasteful, but still useful or maybe even needed. if you get the right length of hose, you can set up a resonance in the hose and the tank pressure that is constant. as the air pressure drops, velocity goes up, so when the valve comes back and cuts through a low pressure, but a high air flow, the velocity gets converted to pressure inside volume being, pushing down to turn. If you make two interleaved halves, 180 degrees out, a left and a right with a center injection port. then no blow by is created and all pressure power is used. Capturing some of with resonance is not needed. But you need 2, but that's ok cause it will 2x the power out! or
Would adding a tapered ridge to the sphere on the friction zone and a corresponding valley on the cover help with air loss? Possibly eliminating the gaskets necessity altogether? Amazing job with the concept by the way! New subscriber.
Nice work. With the exhaust Port being right beside the intake would there not be a significant amount of air bleeding across and going straight out the the exhaust? could this be remedied by moving the exhaust the opposite corner of the intake to reduce the valve overlap. Also is the locating Notch necessary? Would there be any harm with the disc rotating freely in it's housing? Keep up the good work
I noticed in the slo-mo how it pushes up and down as it rotates, so I'm thinking that it may benefit from having thrust bearing at the ends of the shaft. This would also allow for a more precise sealing system.
i think you need the second disk to restrain the exhaust and use it into your rotation, the 2 disk version you showed is kind of using the leakage and the exhaust to spin a second disk wich is 180 degrees from the first. I think you should try that two sphere in series is my first idea second idea is to turbocharge your exhaust into your intake using the leaks and the exhaust to spin a regular compression disk inside a turbo body. both ideas together and you might have something quite cool. damn i wish i had a printer
Friction and low speed high torque are some of the examples. Also,as he said, NASA is making one that uses another of these to be spun by the exhaust gases.
Teflon sealing ring between the halves of the disc, function similar to a piston ring, and hopefully stay low friction (maybe there is something more slippery than oiled Teflon?).
This is interesting as a concept compared to piston engines since the the the main axle and engine are on the same axis and the components that convert the flow of air into into some form of work also forms chamber seals. I could be wrong, but thinking about it more though, you might get better results from an even simpler motor design like a convectional impulse/reaction turbine or tesla turbine, since they might need less dimensional tolerances for your recreational applications compared to the wobbling disk engine you made.
ya my first thought seeing it was 3D tesla turbine. I think the tesla turbine still wins since can stack more 'plates' made me wonder if there would be an advantage to making the tesla turbines concave though i.e. more surface area
Here's an idea 👉 Get a coupler for the inlet port, an extra piece of hose and feed the outlet back into the inlet. I think it's an awesome design, and the efficiency could also be improved by putting some texture on the surface of the ball, like small scales.. 🖖
Awesome, but it looks like the power curve isn't the best. Chaining a second disk like another comment suggested or adding a flywheel might vastly improve it.
Make it out of polished aluminum and run it off a campfire steam engine. Also mapping the RPM/PSI should give you an indication of power band and efficiency.
i wonder if using a different seal would work better than rubber. I wonder if Nylon would work. Or at least something with low friction that can hold air. I could be wrong but never know till you try right? Nice work hope to see more. You have a new subscriber.
I think it's a mistake to have that keyway that keeps the disc in one position. Remove the keyway, make the disk continuous all round and let it rotate if it wants to. I think you'll find the overall effect is better. It's also creating friction between the disk and the key. You may also find making the surface of the disk where the air impacts it slightly concave as if a mild torus has been subtacted from the shape might improve it also. I think you'll find it will work better with more closely-engineered surfaces than using rubber seals and then letting it run at a faster speed.
"chamfer"@4:24 no! Instead subtract a sphere with something like 0.01mm to 0.05mm bigger radius then the sphere below to minimize air loss then use step format. However you are blowing to create another blow through mechanical, with a 90 degree bent down of the air compressor tube you get easily transmit thrust more efficiently
So just saying steam engines used oil so your air engine may benefit from oil injected with the air, only problem is you need to collect it after the air passes through.
Hey, I have an engine I designed, I can't build it right now because life, but if you wanted to build it, I could provide you with the CAD files. Another reason I cant build it, is it requires a cnc machine, which mine is in storage. It would have to be out of aluminum as 3d printed plastic would have too much friction and not work. Let me know if you are interested. Since UA-cam doesnt allow links in the comments, I will have to DM the links to the files.
Okay, so how does it compare (in terms of efficiency) with a typical airmotor? You made comparisons, right? So you'd know whether it was really worth pursuing? You made measurements, right? How long does it last running full tilt boogie? I didn't notice any bearings or lubricating method.
Seeing as the disc doesn't rotate, only spin. I wonder if there is some sort of accordion style gasket you could use - like a speaker's edge. Something that will flex a little, but hold air in without losing much energy due to friction.
I have a solenoid stye air pump, noisy as hell, I wonder wound this work as an 'almost silent' airpump, I was thinking crank and bellows but this may work? I need good flow at low pressure (for a laser cutter, to move smoke away from blocking the beam)
I feel like there should be a better shape for the inlet side of the disk. Perhaps an offset oval with a wide thin fin on the inlet and a short fat one on the exhaust to maintain balance.
Probably could run some powder through it and it would self-coat all surfaces by embedding to the plastics. Maybe a primer first to soften the top micron of plastic, low percent oil/acetone blend. Of course not on the transparent one or it would not be so transparent anymore.
Try replacing the internals with simple fixed vane pump components. These are known to be inefficient, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is more efficient... Give it a try and post the results
There are two more seals that would also improve performance. The disk to wedge seal and the wedge to sphere seal. Without these seals, the engine is simply relying on air velocity to wobble the disk rather than a volume change caused by pressure.
The friction would destroy the plastic
@@derpinbird1180 there already exists 2 other rubber seals. Why should the two I suggest be made from plastic? Are you suggesting not sealing these regions?
@@acreery1 i think they mean the plastic of the casing/disc, not the plastic of the seals
Can't wait to see the prototype bud 😂
Maybe increasing the area of the outer part of the disc would increase the power of your engine .
A true proof of concept. A device that converts moving air into moving air!
I'm pretty sure if he just cuts the engine out and just lets the air flow out of the tube it's 100% efficiency with regards to moving air. (Which I believe is why he's using the propeller, correct?)
@@orion1816propeller works like a gearbox as he needs more torque
@@GewelReal you dont understand. The airflow he is using as power input will ultimately be the exact same airflow out as the propeller pushes. the system is useless.
@@orion1816 no, YOU don't understand.
air out of hose may produce a lot of thrust, but it's not optimised for lifting something heavy. It will work way worse than a propeller unless your goal would be speed (it may not take off the ground as well as a propeller if at all)
That’s a fan.
Tom Stanton might be interested in testing this design, I'm sure you know he made several compressed air engines for 2l bottle airplanes.
This also creates rotation directly instead of reciprocal motion, that's a big deal for efficiency
While watching the video i abolutely thought the same, right up @TomStantonEngineering 's alley, hope he sees this and someday makes something cool out of it.
isnt that just a worse version of the vane engine?
@@cancelhandles⚠️ God has said in the Quran:
🔵 { O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous - ( 2:21 )
🔴 [He] who made for you the earth a bed [spread out] and the sky a ceiling and sent down from the sky, rain and brought forth thereby fruits as provision for you. So do not attribute to Allah equals while you know [that there is nothing similar to Him]. ( 2:22 )
🔵 And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant [Muhammad], then produce a surah the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah, if you should be truthful. ( 2:23 )
🔴 But if you do not - and you will never be able to - then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers.( 2:24 )
🔵 And give good tidings to those who believe and do righteous deeds that they will have gardens [in Paradise] beneath which rivers flow. Whenever they are provided with a provision of fruit therefrom, they will say, "This is what we were provided with before." And it is given to them in likeness. And they will have therein purified spouses, and they will abide therein eternally. ( 2:25 )
⚠️ Quran
@@thomaskletzl6493I'd say yes.
A seemingly minor, but important distinction to all the budding engineers out there: the device shown here is a type of turbine, NOT an engine. The distinction being that an engine converts a different type of energy (thermal, chemical, potential, etc.) into mechanical energy. A turbine extracts the (already mechanical) energy in a fluid stream and turns it into work.
Im not an engineer but my first thought was: How is this more efficient than blades in a turbine? Considering this design never took off (I think), I assume it’s not.
I learned about nutating valves as a Power Engineer (boiler operator), they’re used for flow meters.
As far as I know EVERY natural gas and gasoline vending pump uses "nutating disk" flow sensors.
My Instrument lecturer invented/patented a nutating disk flowmeter, won the Queens award for it I believe, Mr Bob Drinkell.
That makes a lot of sense. Trying to use this design to actually power something is going to run into the fact that the mechanical leverage the air has on the disc is very low...so useful power output is going to be minimal.
Make sense as a sensor. Since the volume can be relatively easily determined.
As an engine, however, I am not so sure...
I am thinking just surface drag is probably enough to make the rod spin efficiently without the z shaft...
Dude, your idea with this engine is great. But follow the safety rules, don't stand in the plane of the propeller's rotation - it's dangerous! The printed part can break, and the blades can fly into your body.
For real! I was putting my safety squints on just watching lol
He knows. Let him do what he wants.
That's a carbon prop made for pushing a couple hundred watts of power into air. This motor can't even turn it hard enough to get the air flowing correctly.
That's not necessary with the proper application of a safety squint and a sphincter-operated E-stop.
@@mattw7949this is my new favourite comment ever
So, 3 ways to make this more efficient.
First we have to understand the high torque low speed nature of this engine. It runs at exceptionally low pressure and doesn't go very fast.
The first way to increase the efficiency would be to further stabilize the rod, as this will reduce friction. It was a tad wobbly.
The second way to increase efficiency would be to add a gear ratio to the propeller making the propeller spin between 1-2.5 times per rotation of the engine. This would add friction but help the engine convert torque to propeller speed.
The third way to increase efficiency would be to reduce the total number of gaskets used and make a more solid chassis around the disk, and reduce the size of the sphere in the middle. Using an interlocking chassis you can make a more definite tolerance, and use less gaskets. Reducing the size of the sphere would increase the total surface area of the piston without sacrificing too much volume or adding total size. I'm sure there is a 'too small' though as you could lose compression.
You could also experiment with changing the edge of the disk only around the area of the intake or outtake, as well as getting rid of the gap around the fin that interlocks with the disk and chassis to reduce bleed from one chamber to the next. The disk tilts so maybe use a parabolic shape. This point goes in tandem with @acreery1 comment.
How different is your commentary from "COOL, Dude" standard responses
I smell 150 minimum IQ
Yes we can recognize each other my fellow even at a distance
Though the feeling of loneliness is there, you are not, it's just because we are so few and separated
@@sorinavila5073 Apart from barely understanding what you're trying to say or whether or not this is sarcasm, sure! Thanks, you too man.
I have an even better way to increase efficiency and power. Make a rotary vane motor.
@@sorinavila5073 r/iamverysmart
@@sorinavila5073 what on earth are you yapping about
What if the exhaust goes to a second disk that is 90° out of phase? Then you get the exhaust's remaining energy powering a "mini-powe-stroke" in between your current power strokes.
Also imagine printing it in metal and running it off steam! 😁😁
That's interesting. I'm wondering how this system might operate in an even denser medium, like water. If it was eficient it may find application in smaller scale hydropower systems. Just a thought, since I'm no expert in that field.
@@waynecooper6124 you'd probably need at least a little air to keep it from locking up mid stroke, or modify the design slightly so that flow from intake to exhaust is never completely cut off
That would be so cool 😮😮
@@waynecooper6124 hmmm... The main differences would be that liquids are incompressible and have higher viscosity. I suspect the lack of compressibility might be an issue cos if there are points in the cycle where both the inlet and outlet are closed water wouldn't be doing work on the "piston" (in this case "wobbly disk"?). The higher viscosity MIGHT be a benefit as adhesion has some effect on a rotary engine at the surface. How much of an effect this actually has I don't know.
I thing a best of both worlds would be a supercritical fluid that has both the compressibility and the viscosity.
@@atrumluminarium dry ice maybe?
This design is used in the every day water meters outside most houses!
These are neat! Cool to see you make one! Great video as always.
I love the simple principle. So neat. But you were brave to hold the propeller at 4 bars - I just anticipated the wobbly printed plastic shaft of the propeller to snap on you! Gladly - it did not. Nice job.
It's sponsored content, but those clear parts are pretty impressive.
That’s amazing !
Heyyy... That's awesome! There's a super-common use case for that structure: the nutating disc flowmeter; we used them in the Navy. Really cool to see it in a novel application.
I think this is worth pursuing even further. Seems to have some potential in it. Very nice!
wonder how efficient this engine is 🤔
sounds amazing!
Are you trying to compete with Tom Stanton?
@7:12 the second valve improved the exhaust pressure and made it spin slightly faster than without the valve. Keeping the pressure high inside the engine.
Excellent POC !!! With few adjustments let’s hope it can generate more power with lesser pressure !
My man turned Saturn into an engine. GG Bro
8:20 pinnacle of human engineering
Using moving air to turn a blade so that it can move air.
Awesome!
(Nice work, great design)
Of course that simple ideas could make a huge difference in the future good job man.
New sub here. As a proof of concept this thing is pretty incredible. Looking forward to your next iteration!
5 years from now someone will make this a car/truck motor just like the guys who built the car that runs and drives off water. Great work🫡! Love how you explained everything with detail throughout the process.
Do you have the Files posted anywhere so we can print some of these? (Also iterative design a la the Tom Stranton piston engine)
You'll be able to find it soon on Thingiverse or in the description of this video
Put a ring around the disc like piston rings from any internal combustion engine. That may improve the sealing, Good video I didn't know this tipe of of engine.
Excellent work
Thanks man
8:20 WOW - You even designed in a quick-detach option for easy cleaning!
Lol bro 😂
good thing you manage to publish the video before No-Nut(ating)-November.
Na man, it's non-stop nutating November 😂
Nice, what about water instead of air?
I'm curious as well, water doesn't really compress so I'd like to know what it would do in that
Tom Stanton needs to see this!
Wow. I have been trying to think of an engine like this for a very long time. Very cool.
Thanks for making a video on the topic!
Add an impression into each side of the disc in the shape of your ignition chamber. As the disc goes up and down, this could add to compression and make it more airtight as well. It would take computerized timing to get right, but it’s probably a worthwhile step to try.
1. Reminds me of the ROFLcopter sound made by microsoft sam, soi soi soi soi soi soi...
2. if you send designs for someone else to print, make sure that either you have a patent or that the design is properly in public domain first, otherwise you may lose the rights to the design.
3. Here are the four horsemen of engines that work well in theory, but not in the real world:
A. Straight, edged, or otherwise unfavorably shaped sealing between the main power harnessing element and the rest of the combustion chamber (Wankel, vane, rotaries in general, rectangular piston, the indexing key sealing on this one, etc)
B. Non-positive sealing (Coates, rotary valving in general, the spherical axle sealing on this one, etc)
C. Undampened full engine power going through a lashing mechanism, generally gears (Achates, Avadi, etc.)
D. Exotically machined parts to avoid the problem above (INNengine, etc.)
This is a quality response. You've clearly understood the practical engineering issues at a granular level where most people don't see the subtleties. When I saw the Honda oval piston I thought, "That won't work well". They would have been better with a squashed circle profile instead of oval so that at least there was a constant curve.
You made the perfect STEAM engine concept:)
Looks like a significantly less efficient version of a turbine. It's a great demonstration of the real engine, but probably not the best design for an air engine.
I came here to say this as well. To me, it looks like the air is just pushing it around rather than the proposed compression operation theory. Still neat though, especially the clear version. Not enough people make clear things
A better sealed version, especially one that actually HAS a seal to isolate the two sides of the disk, would work with any air flow rate and pressure, unlike a turbine. In essence this is a piston engine. Just a poorly sealed one, for now.
This isn't a turbine. Turbines rely on aerodynamic lift over the turbine blades and are tuned to work best at certain speeds. This relies on a trapped volume of air (or it will once it's sealed properly). I think it's a great idea.
@@jamescarruthers1967 You're right. It's less of a traditional turbine and more of a mix between a tesla turbine (also a turbine), a water wheel and a radial compressor run on reverse. I would love to see efficiency/power comparisons with other designs.
@@arturjogi6054I'd say it's not a piston engine, it's a STEAM engine.
Intersting idea- its like a boxer engine but without the seperate crank shaft between the cylinders....but Two points to add-
1: Wear in the cylinder over long term operation- it would be interesting to see how much loss due to friction in the cylinder you generate.
2: Vibration - it would seem that having the axis of the "piston" disk at an angle would generate a fairly significant sideways/rotational vibration; so again something to measure on an efficiency loss
I suppose it'd be easy enough to add more discs out of phase with the first which may help with that start up (three times more likely for one of the discs to be in a good position to just start moving, but also heavier and may need more pressure to start). I like it!
This closely resembles a peristaltic motion of the air volume as it turns in one direction. Another example worth trying is the rolling piston engine. I think you will find it easier to make it more airtight.
Plz use the wobbling motor to make a Wobot
Who knew Saturn was a motor. Oh wait he keeps us moving. Makes sense.
nice job man. thanks for video. i think better to use air sealings instead of rubber gaskets. also you can make another sealing in edge of ufo shape. make its edge like a grave for air also make some holes in ufo up and down sides to guid air from out of ufo to its inside and then through air channels to air grave in ufo edge. this way a small portion of air will guide to edge of ufo and will restrict air flow from edge of ufo up or down. this way you can increase distance between ufo edge and cylinder. same you can do for rubber gasket with replacing by air sealing.
One - Congrats on getting me to sit and watch all the way through an advertising aside. You actually integrated the segue into your running commentary quite well, and had built good "momentum" by the time you got to the parts that were pure advertising. JLCPCB spent their money well here.
Two - I would be interested in seeing you take this design in a second direction. I am very curious as to how this nutating turbine(?) functions as a hydraulic engine. I would like to see some discussion about its use both as a hydraulic actuator and as a possible water-driven motor for some kind of small hydropower system.
It is a nutating disc. This design is used in fluid flow meters.
Cunnect the air out to your compressor intake or a "vakuumer"/strong dust sucker.
In a fictive real live costrucktion a air compressor could be part of the circle by deliver positve and negative pressure at the same time.
What about way larger wings and stronger construcktion and let the force be delivered by hydraulik over all?
may be slowe the nair but way more force possible, so larger bladewings could be used.
You made me curious at all^^
Correct me if I’m wrong but this is how a hydraulic piston pump/motor works, just the pistons act as valves in the hydraulic version.
It looks incredibly inefficient. Nice demonstration. Thanks! 🙂
@retsetman9698 I think you can adjust the torque and speed, by tilting the disc more or less. 45° maybe ?
Nice project! I noticed the propeller shaft is wobbling which means it is under stress
brilliant!, simple, you have a blow through freewheeling of air that is wasteful, but still useful or maybe even needed. if you get the right length of hose, you can set up a resonance in the hose and the tank pressure that is constant. as the air pressure drops, velocity goes up, so when the valve comes back and cuts through a low pressure, but a high air flow, the velocity gets converted to pressure inside volume being, pushing down to turn. If you make two interleaved halves, 180 degrees out, a left and a right with a center injection port. then no blow by is created and all pressure power is used. Capturing some of with resonance is not needed. But you need 2, but that's ok cause it will 2x the power out!
or
Finally, a copter that really goes soi soi soi soi soi
Would adding a tapered ridge to the sphere on the friction zone and a corresponding valley on the cover help with air loss? Possibly eliminating the gaskets necessity altogether?
Amazing job with the concept by the way! New subscriber.
Very cool idea, and great implementation. What about a multi-stage version?
Nice work. With the exhaust Port being right beside the intake would there not be a significant amount of air bleeding across and going straight out the the exhaust? could this be remedied by moving the exhaust the opposite corner of the intake to reduce the valve overlap. Also is the locating Notch necessary? Would there be any harm with the disc rotating freely in it's housing? Keep up the good work
Locating notch would be better placed 180⁰ opposite to avoid most bleeding
But it's a prototype with more optimization ahead
Considering it's a first prototype, I'd say it's pretty good. I'll be very interested to see an improved version 😁
I noticed in the slo-mo how it pushes up and down as it rotates, so I'm thinking that it may benefit from having thrust bearing at the ends of the shaft. This would also allow for a more precise sealing system.
Extremely good work, Sir.. and very entertaining.
i think you need the second disk to restrain the exhaust and use it into your rotation, the 2 disk version you showed is kind of using the leakage and the exhaust to spin a second disk wich is 180 degrees from the first.
I think you should try that two sphere in series is my first idea
second idea is to turbocharge your exhaust into your intake using the leaks and the exhaust to spin a regular compression disk inside a turbo body.
both ideas together and you might have something quite cool. damn i wish i had a printer
How about extend the shaft out the back and try another prop offset 90*?
It would even up loading. Maybe inprove balance?
Dont know if you have the tools, but a followup video with a machined brass design running on steam would be AWESOME!!
What would be the pros/cons of a nutating valve engine vs a impulse/reaction turbine?
Friction and low speed high torque are some of the examples. Also,as he said, NASA is making one that uses another of these to be spun by the exhaust gases.
Teflon sealing ring between the halves of the disc, function similar to a piston ring, and hopefully stay low friction (maybe there is something more slippery than oiled Teflon?).
Multi disk next?? Love to see that!
By advancing the position of exhaust port you will be able to get more torque out of it.
This is interesting as a concept compared to piston engines since the the the main axle and engine are on the same axis and the components that convert the flow of air into into some form of work also forms chamber seals. I could be wrong, but thinking about it more though, you might get better results from an even simpler motor design like a convectional impulse/reaction turbine or tesla turbine, since they might need less dimensional tolerances for your recreational applications compared to the wobbling disk engine you made.
ya my first thought seeing it was 3D tesla turbine. I think the tesla turbine still wins since can stack more 'plates' made me wonder if there would be an advantage to making the tesla turbines concave though i.e. more surface area
I wonder if you could attach to it a diesel heater to get the air pressure from expanding gas off the burner. For a quiet and efficient engine.
putting a lot of trust in those 3d printed parts standing that close to a propeller that big going that fast.
STL files in the description, if you're going to print this project, there's also a little note about the assembly. don't forget to subscribe!!
Here's an idea 👉 Get a coupler for the inlet port, an extra piece of hose and feed the outlet back into the inlet. I think it's an awesome design, and the efficiency could also be improved by putting some texture on the surface of the ball, like small scales.. 🖖
You need to split the air into the upper and bottom section.
Add small fins on the surface area of the disk just like a hydro wheel
Woah, cool vid.
This idea could be polished and made even better. I feel like series are coming :D
Could you add more cylinders on the same crankshaft? I would recommend three or five cylinders, out of phase with each other to add torque.
I wonder how well that might work for micro-hydro electric use? Would it work with water?
small water pumps use this concept
Awesome, but it looks like the power curve isn't the best. Chaining a second disk like another comment suggested or adding a flywheel might vastly improve it.
Make it out of polished aluminum and run it off a campfire steam engine. Also mapping the RPM/PSI should give you an indication of power band and efficiency.
That is a really interesting concept!
i wonder if using a different seal would work better than rubber. I wonder if Nylon would work. Or at least something with low friction that can hold air. I could be wrong but never know till you try right? Nice work hope to see more. You have a new subscriber.
I think it's a mistake to have that keyway that keeps the disc in one position. Remove the keyway, make the disk continuous all round and let it rotate if it wants to. I think you'll find the overall effect is better. It's also creating friction between the disk and the key. You may also find making the surface of the disk where the air impacts it slightly concave as if a mild torus has been subtacted from the shape might improve it also. I think you'll find it will work better with more closely-engineered surfaces than using rubber seals and then letting it run at a faster speed.
WELL DONE SIR -- WE LEARNED - THANK YOU
"chamfer"@4:24 no! Instead subtract a sphere with something like 0.01mm to 0.05mm bigger radius then the sphere below to minimize air loss then use step format. However you are blowing to create another blow through mechanical, with a 90 degree bent down of the air compressor tube you get easily transmit thrust more efficiently
I wonder how much thrust you get just having the air exhaust directly.
Super cool build!
I'm just picturing some inventor going "Check out my 50 knot wobbling disc steam ship!" like the Parsons Turbinia.
So just saying steam engines used oil so your air engine may benefit from oil injected with the air, only problem is you need to collect it after the air passes through.
Excellent idea!
Very cool video 👍
Very cool idea and execution!
Now THAT, is genius! 🙂
Reis doğru söyle Türksün.
Hey, I have an engine I designed, I can't build it right now because life, but if you wanted to build it, I could provide you with the CAD files. Another reason I cant build it, is it requires a cnc machine, which mine is in storage. It would have to be out of aluminum as 3d printed plastic would have too much friction and not work. Let me know if you are interested. Since UA-cam doesnt allow links in the comments, I will have to DM the links to the files.
Okay, so how does it compare (in terms of efficiency) with a typical airmotor?
You made comparisons, right? So you'd know whether it was really worth pursuing?
You made measurements, right? How long does it last running full tilt boogie? I didn't notice any bearings or lubricating method.
Seeing as the disc doesn't rotate, only spin. I wonder if there is some sort of accordion style gasket you could use - like a speaker's edge. Something that will flex a little, but hold air in without losing much energy due to friction.
I have a solenoid stye air pump, noisy as hell, I wonder wound this work as an 'almost silent' airpump, I was thinking crank and bellows but this may work? I need good flow at low pressure (for a laser cutter, to move smoke away from blocking the beam)
I feel like there should be a better shape for the inlet side of the disk. Perhaps an offset oval with a wide thin fin on the inlet and a short fat one on the exhaust to maintain balance.
Graphite works great for both sealing and reducing friction
That's a good idea, I think this is a good application for the use of graphite instead of seals and oil.
Probably could run some powder through it and it would self-coat all surfaces by embedding to the plastics. Maybe a primer first to soften the top micron of plastic, low percent oil/acetone blend. Of course not on the transparent one or it would not be so transparent anymore.
It's called "nutating disk". The principle has been used in positive displacement flowmeters for many decades.
Try replacing the internals with simple fixed vane pump components. These are known to be inefficient, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is more efficient...
Give it a try and post the results
Just use water instead of air and efficiency will increase exponentially
Good job man, thats badass! Thanks for sharing.