Thank you Francis and Adya. I am one of those in the west who has had exposure with both traditions in my past. Really resonate with your observations.
As someone with chronic health problems, it's great to get a perspective on this at some length. One question I wish Rick would ask his guests is how often and under what point do they "graduate" their students, or at least stop them being perpetual students...to put it bluntly, "you no longer need to keep buying my books and coming to my retreats because it is an attachment"I also wished there was some discussion on a spiritual perspective regarding scientific findings and technology as a language of our modern day experience as much as anything found in an ancient text. I find the work of Stephen Hawkin add meaning and perspective to my own spiritual development without having to regard the man as a spiritual teacher.
Rick honestly this was fantastic. i think more interviews with a few people together discussing this would be great. iam not sure about the chant at the end and begging though lol
Not for me. When are people, steeped in ignorance and religious belief and pathetic devotion (which is not spirituality) going to break their shackles of superstition and see life and consciousness as it is, untainted by dependence on old fashioned dogma handed down by generation after generation and never doubted, challenged or questioned because people are too damn lazy to think for themselves and go beyond their inherited prejudices and concepts, and beyond the human mind itself to the transcendental Reality which alone is true and which alone makes you totally detached from the worlds of form and ideas, and to stand free and alone, unhindered and unrestricted, beyond desire and identification with anything, physical or emotional, mental or even what men mistakenly think is spiritual, away beyond the mountain peak into the Great ABSTRACTION. Religion is the greatest trap of the human mind ever devised. That is why I am a spiritual atheist. I have been a christian, a taoist, a buddhist and a Hindu, and I reject them all. All fetters to enslave you. Only people are too stupid to see their own traps. The only sweetness there is the ambrosia of the spirit which is permanent and unchanging. There is no evolution for the spirit. It is already perfect, already free, already everything and already GOD, but not the nonsense god which people believe in, which is only an idea which is another trap, as is politics and nationalism and sexism and racialism. There is no prayer and no chant which can reach the ultimate state. Everything about religion is a lie. Christianity is a deliberately made up construction, devised by the rich in Greece and Rome to control the masses, and nothing in history has ever been so evil and so much harm. There is no historian who has ever found one trace of a historical jesus - because there is none. And people have been saying so for hundreds of years. Even St. Augustine said the gospels were a bunch of stories, made up and unfounded on fact. But of course all these gullible commentators will ignore that,ignoring reason and logic and history and being quite devoid of discrimination. The myths of the gospels were not written down for 74 years after the supposed birth of jesus, and no Buddhist text was written till 200 years after the death of Buddha; and even some buddhists have doubted the actual fact of Buddha. And likewise there was no Krishna,which is just another myth, as is the whole Mahabarata. But of course weak minds, not wishing to stand alone, depend on ancient myths. If jesus is claimed to be true, why not the gods of the Greek myths and ancient Babylon and Sumeria? People like their stories.
I watched the Adyashanti/Marie video and then the Harri Alto one. Of course it is wonderful to listen to these guys as they are all clearly deeply happy within themselves and who on earth would not be happy to see this. But it occurred to me that someone in some future day doing research and listening to the Batgap videos might wonder why on earth no mention is ever (well perhaps apart from a brief reference by a Timothy Conway or perhaps a David Loy here and there) ever mentions the situation in which a population which comprises 4.5% of the world's population thinks its ok for them to wage war across the length and breadth of the planet, have military bases everywhere; play games with the populations in any and every country to effect regime change so as to further their domination of the ENTIRE planet. Adyashanti and Harri make no mention of this - nor does Sussan Marie. - because if they did I guess they fear they wouldn't be so popular. So as I said in an unanswered email to Bennet and Adyashanti if you say nothing about these things isn't a case of passing the buck to others to do something about it? Isn't it a case of deeming oneself to be somehow more pure and higher up than others who one somewho expects to deal with these "lesser" messy spolitical matters while dwelling in the higher more refined "spiritual realms" As someone said evil thrives when good men do nothing. I know droves of middle class people have been deeply and positively influenced by the likes of the above. But only a dreamer would think that things will just magically change by themselves. They change IF SOME CONCRETE ACTION is taken. Harri says he believes the world will become a better place. All of us hope so. But the question he should be asked is what are the concrete steps that need to be taken to do this. How are the weapons of mass destruction that the U.S. uses and sells to others across the length and breadth of the planet going to be dismantled? How is this endless hatred and arrogance going to end? How is the hubris of the American mind that thinks its ok for them to take from the world whatever they need when they comprise but 4.5 percent of is population going to be exorcised? How is it ok for them to have more weapons than the entire rest of the planet put together? And how is it ok to keep quoting Ken Wilber (seemingly a darling of Rick) who has spurned a movement (the Integral movement) whose members (mostly White Americans) clearly think they are the most spiritually evolved on the planet just cause Wilber thinks so (with evidently himself positioned at the top of the pile!) (Wilber by they way isn't taken seriously as an academic both because he doesn't back up his claims nor does he engage in the open arena of discussion as any true intellectual would but engages in a one way line of argument which says "I am right and you are wrong!!!!". He interviews others on occasion but is too arrogant ever to be interviewed. I guess his sentiment this is pretty much in line with America's foreign policy in general! This is a wake up call. We are all pretty much the same and all want to feel safe, to feel loved and to love. We are all real on the inside (our subjectivity) and are all equally important. I am sick to death of the deafening silence about this subject on this channel. Its time to forget about popularity and start caring at last. Really caring that is. Not just trying to look nice and please everybody. If these guys talk about these issues in this vidoe let me know. Otherwise I may just give it a miss. I am sick of the silence on this. The Buddha's Noble silence was about about issues he considered unanswerable or not important for the path. These are issues that CAN AND SHOULD BE DEALT WITH IF ONE HAS THE SLIGHTEST AMOUNT OF COMPASSION. And by the way if you are in America support those at Standing Rock. This is the latest blatant case of war against the people of the earth by your government.
Hi David. I was listening to an inspiring talk by a young woman at Standing Rock as this came in, and sharing it on my timeline. See facebook.com/UrbanNativeEra/videos/875316065904399/?pnref=story. People have different roles to play. What's yours? I've always felt that higher consciousness would result in social change. That's why I've devoted my life to raising my own and working to raise humanity's. What, concretely and specifically, are doing to change the world? What CONCRETE ACTION? Whatever it is, more power to you! We should all do what we can, based upon our aptitudes. I'm no fan of Ken Wilber's. I've never read any of his books. I just like his lines of development model. Helps explain a lot of things.
"war across the length and breadth of the planet" - not really, David! As Great comedian George Carlin correctly said, USA doesn't really like fighting wars in Europe, Australia or in Africa. It is mainly the "brown people" - middle east, south Asia that need to really watch out.
"Bennet and Adyashanti if you say nothing about these things isn't a case of passing the buck to others to do something about it? " - Not really, David! As Great comedian George Carlin correctly said, they mightn't be bothered by it at all the focus might strictly be on - "Not in my Back Yard"!
" How is this endless hatred and arrogance going to end?" - I am not sure that it is really case of hated or arrogance. It might simply be a case of power, strength, ambition, comfort, resources and dominance.
Actually I have noticed that Susanne Marie is quite active on FB expressing her views (one of the things I like about her) on a number of issues (including Standing Rock), and Francis Bennett has come out publicly on FB and is in support of LGBT rights. I have also seen Rick make his views knows through various political posts. Not sure about Haari Alto, and I haven't ever heard Adyashanti publicly speak specifically on any issues. I personally like knowing that some teachers are politically active and have POV's. It makes them seem more embodied and unafraid to express themselves.
I just saw that Francis will be teaching with Loch Kelly in NYC on weekend of Jan 27th: lochkelly.org/event/weekend-retreat-with-loch-and-francis-bennett/
In the end a hungry person is more helped with food and shelter, then being told all the wisdom on earth.Sadly our world is filled with more hungry humans, then 'spiritual hungry'ones.
There is still so much tension and turmoil on this topic that both said very little of what really could and should be said. So much heated debate has poisoned the air with Thought Forms that don't resemble the sweet characters discussed here (Freke is one example) that in efforts to not evoke those destructive forces, no new forces have been constructed. This needs to change. I know it's hard. And it still has to happen.
I admire both of these guys but I am incredibly disappointed at the way they answered the question "Do we need greater balance between the feminine and masculine than what the older traditions offer?" The answer is a simple *yes.* Women are underrepresented in history and religion. The question was not "do you like women?" Or "what did Jesus and Buddha think of women." The question was asking, in my mind, is there a need for greater recognition of women in religion and spirituality? (Yes!) And offering a story about being in love with a saint and calling her "hot," completely missed the point of the question (not to mention, to me, was being deeply disrespectful of a female saint).
Thank you for saying this Ariel! I had the exact same thought. Something felt very off. Actually, I feel that Francis in general seems to have difficulty with women (not surprising considering his past monastic life). At least Adyashanti seriously promotes his wife Mukti whom he seems to hold with equality.
I didn't know he was ill or in pain... I've never heard him talk about that. I've heard him talk about how we was a serious bicyclist that came to an abrupt halt due to a mysterious illness, is that what he's talking about?
I've just searched "Thérèse of Lisieux" because of what happended at 1:16:40 and i can say Adya and Francis have no taste in women at all :D ahahahaaaha
Great discussion, of perennial pertinence but especially relevant in this age of PTSD (President Trump Stress Disorder?) and our current spiritual inflection point and apparent collective crisis ... More to Adya's important point about a mythos being a kind of intrinsic metaphysical truth encoded in archetypal allegory that can speak to, and perchance awaken, one's intuitive 'knowing,' viewers may want check out a book titled 'More Than Allegory' by Bernardo Kastrup (another batgap interviewee), for a more in-depth perspective on the universal significance of a numinous mythology, and perhaps the need for a more contemporary version, free of all the pious dogmatic baggage and locked-in mindsets, that can similarly speak to our current shifting paradigm ... or check out this Skeptiko interview ... ua-cam.com/video/15uFe2O57Kw/v-deo.html
Historicity of Jesus Christ is doubtful whereas buddha's life is well documented. But Christianity imitated Buddhism heavily. Buddhist tells Buddha's life is his teaching and likewise Christianity claims church is Christ's body. Even church bells are copied from Buddhist gongs and bells.
Thank you Francis and Adya. I am one of those in the west who has had exposure with both traditions in my past. Really resonate with your observations.
Man I really enjoyed this talk rick, your doing great work, never mind the negative folks.......bless em !!
yeah, what he said. This is such an intetesting, deep, thought provoking discussion. Such balm to the soul in these troubling times.
yes, so interesting, so deep, so balmy, so provoking, so thoughtful, so soulful, and so troubling.
As someone with chronic health problems, it's great to get a perspective on this at some length. One question I wish Rick would ask his guests is how often and under what point do they "graduate" their students, or at least stop them being perpetual students...to put it bluntly, "you no longer need to keep buying my books and coming to my retreats because it is an attachment"I also wished there was some discussion on a spiritual perspective regarding scientific findings and technology as a language of our modern day experience as much as anything found in an ancient text. I find the work of Stephen Hawkin add meaning and perspective to my own spiritual development without having to regard the man as a spiritual teacher.
Goodness, this was beautiful! Thank you 💕
Thank you... Really wonderful.
Thank you for posting this. There are some great pearls of wisdom here.
Thanks Rick
Rick honestly this was fantastic. i think more interviews with a few people together discussing this would be great. iam not sure about the chant at the end and begging though lol
beggining not begging
Rick is becoming a teacher/elucidator in his own right!
thank you so much, the conversations moved me!
What a blessing.
Not for me. When are people, steeped in ignorance and religious belief and pathetic devotion (which is not spirituality) going to break their shackles of superstition and see life and consciousness as it is, untainted by dependence on old fashioned dogma handed down by generation after generation and never doubted, challenged or questioned because people are too damn lazy to think for themselves and go beyond their inherited prejudices and concepts, and beyond the human mind itself to the transcendental Reality which alone is true and which alone makes you totally detached from the worlds of form and ideas, and to stand free and alone, unhindered and unrestricted, beyond desire and identification with anything, physical or emotional, mental or even what men mistakenly think is spiritual, away beyond the mountain peak into the Great ABSTRACTION. Religion is the greatest trap of the human mind ever devised. That is why I am a spiritual atheist. I have been a christian, a taoist, a buddhist and a Hindu, and I reject them all. All fetters to enslave you. Only people are too stupid to see their own traps. The only sweetness there is the ambrosia of the spirit which is permanent and unchanging. There is no evolution for the spirit. It is already perfect, already free, already everything and already GOD, but not the nonsense god which people believe in, which is only an idea which is another trap, as is politics and nationalism and sexism and racialism. There is no prayer and no chant which can reach the ultimate state. Everything about religion is a lie. Christianity is a deliberately made up construction, devised by the rich in Greece and Rome to control the masses, and nothing in history has ever been so evil and so much harm. There is no historian who has ever found one trace of a historical jesus - because there is none. And people have been saying so for hundreds of years. Even St. Augustine said the gospels were a bunch of stories, made up and unfounded on fact. But of course all these gullible commentators will ignore that,ignoring reason and logic and history and being quite devoid of discrimination. The myths of the gospels were not written down for 74 years after the supposed birth of jesus, and no Buddhist text was written till 200 years after the death of Buddha; and even some buddhists have doubted the actual fact of Buddha. And likewise there was no Krishna,which is just another myth, as is the whole Mahabarata. But of course weak minds, not wishing to stand alone, depend on ancient myths. If jesus is claimed to be true, why not the gods of the Greek myths and ancient Babylon and Sumeria? People like their stories.
Does it matter if they existed?
I watched the Adyashanti/Marie video and then the Harri Alto one. Of course it is wonderful to listen to these guys as they are all clearly deeply happy within themselves and who on earth would not be happy to see this.
But it occurred to me that someone in some future day doing research and listening to the Batgap videos might wonder why on earth no mention is ever (well perhaps apart from a brief reference by a Timothy Conway or perhaps a David Loy here and there) ever mentions the situation in which a population which comprises 4.5% of the world's population thinks its ok for them to wage war across the length and breadth of the planet, have military bases everywhere; play games with the populations in any and every country to effect regime change so as to further their domination of the ENTIRE planet.
Adyashanti and Harri make no mention of this - nor does Sussan Marie. - because if they did I guess they fear they wouldn't be so popular.
So as I said in an unanswered email to Bennet and Adyashanti if you say nothing about these things isn't a case of passing the buck to others to do something about it? Isn't it a case of deeming oneself to be somehow more pure and higher up than others who one somewho expects to deal with these "lesser" messy spolitical matters while dwelling in the higher more refined "spiritual realms"
As someone said evil thrives when good men do nothing.
I know droves of middle class people have been deeply and positively influenced by the likes of the above.
But only a dreamer would think that things will just magically change by themselves. They change IF SOME CONCRETE ACTION is taken. Harri says he believes the world will become a better place. All of us hope so. But the question he should be asked is what are the concrete steps that need to be taken to do this. How are the weapons of mass destruction that the U.S. uses and sells to others across the length and breadth of the planet going to be dismantled? How is this endless hatred and arrogance going to end?
How is the hubris of the American mind that thinks its ok for them to take from the world whatever they need when they comprise but 4.5 percent of is population going to be exorcised? How is it ok for them to have more weapons than the entire rest of the planet put together?
And how is it ok to keep quoting Ken Wilber (seemingly a darling of Rick) who has spurned a movement (the Integral movement) whose members (mostly White Americans) clearly think they are the most spiritually evolved on the planet just cause Wilber thinks so (with evidently himself positioned at the top of the pile!) (Wilber by they way isn't taken seriously as an academic both because he doesn't back up his claims nor does he engage in the open arena of discussion as any true intellectual would but engages in a one way line of argument which says "I am right and you are wrong!!!!". He interviews others on occasion but is too arrogant ever to be interviewed. I guess his sentiment this is pretty much in line with America's foreign policy in general!
This is a wake up call. We are all pretty much the same and all want to feel safe, to feel loved and to love. We are all real on the inside (our subjectivity) and are all equally important.
I am sick to death of the deafening silence about this subject on this channel. Its time to forget about popularity and start caring at last. Really caring that is. Not just trying to look nice and please everybody.
If these guys talk about these issues in this vidoe let me know. Otherwise I may just give it a miss. I am sick of the silence on this. The Buddha's Noble silence was about about issues he considered unanswerable or not important for the path. These are issues that CAN AND SHOULD BE DEALT WITH IF ONE HAS THE SLIGHTEST AMOUNT OF COMPASSION.
And by the way if you are in America support those at Standing Rock. This is the latest blatant case of war against the people of the earth by your government.
Hi David. I was listening to an inspiring talk by a young woman at Standing Rock as this came in, and sharing it on my timeline. See facebook.com/UrbanNativeEra/videos/875316065904399/?pnref=story. People have different roles to play. What's yours? I've always felt that higher consciousness would result in social change. That's why I've devoted my life to raising my own and working to raise humanity's. What, concretely and specifically, are doing to change the world? What CONCRETE ACTION? Whatever it is, more power to you! We should all do what we can, based upon our aptitudes.
I'm no fan of Ken Wilber's. I've never read any of his books. I just like his lines of development model. Helps explain a lot of things.
"war across the length and breadth of the planet" - not really, David! As Great comedian George Carlin correctly said, USA doesn't really like fighting wars in Europe, Australia or in Africa. It is mainly the "brown people" - middle east, south Asia that need to really watch out.
"Bennet and Adyashanti if you say nothing about these things isn't a case of passing the buck to others to do something about it? " - Not really, David! As Great comedian George Carlin correctly said, they mightn't be bothered by it at all the focus might strictly be on - "Not in my Back Yard"!
" How is this endless hatred and arrogance going to end?" - I am not sure that it is really case of hated or arrogance. It might simply be a case of power, strength, ambition, comfort, resources and dominance.
Actually I have noticed that Susanne Marie is quite active on FB expressing her views (one of the things I like about her) on a number of issues (including Standing Rock), and Francis Bennett has come out publicly on FB and is in support of LGBT rights. I have also seen Rick make his views knows through various political posts. Not sure about Haari Alto, and I haven't ever heard Adyashanti publicly speak specifically on any issues. I personally like knowing that some teachers are politically active and have POV's. It makes them seem more embodied and unafraid to express themselves.
I just saw that Francis will be teaching with Loch Kelly in NYC on weekend of Jan 27th: lochkelly.org/event/weekend-retreat-with-loch-and-francis-bennett/
In the end a hungry person is more helped with food and shelter, then being told all the wisdom on earth.Sadly our world is filled with more hungry humans, then 'spiritual hungry'ones.
well stated
This is a new favorite ♡♡♡
There is still so much tension and turmoil on this topic that both said very little of what really could and should be said. So much heated debate has poisoned the air with Thought Forms that don't resemble the sweet characters discussed here (Freke is one example) that in efforts to not evoke those destructive forces, no new forces have been constructed.
This needs to change.
I know it's hard.
And it still has to happen.
I admire both of these guys but I am incredibly disappointed at the way they answered the question "Do we need greater balance between the feminine and masculine than what the older traditions offer?" The answer is a simple *yes.* Women are underrepresented in history and religion. The question was not "do you like women?" Or "what did Jesus and Buddha think of women." The question was asking, in my mind, is there a need for greater recognition of women in religion and spirituality? (Yes!) And offering a story about being in love with a saint and calling her "hot," completely missed the point of the question (not to mention, to me, was being deeply disrespectful of a female saint).
This conversation runs from 1:11:53 - 1:20:51
Thank you for saying this Ariel! I had the exact same thought. Something felt very off. Actually, I feel that Francis in general seems to have difficulty with women (not surprising considering his past monastic life). At least Adyashanti seriously promotes his wife Mukti whom he seems to hold with equality.
wish more art with a happy smiling Jesus was there.most of the time he is portrayed in misery and pain.
Did you actually listen to what they said about suffering?
When is Adyashanti going to realize he has Lyme disease? I'm surprised a sharp guy like him hasn't gotten there yet.
Adya knows that he is ill. They postet about it a year or two ago on his website
I didn't know he was ill or in pain... I've never heard him talk about that. I've heard him talk about how we was a serious bicyclist that came to an abrupt halt due to a mysterious illness, is that what he's talking about?
I've just searched "Thérèse of Lisieux" because of what happended at 1:16:40 and i can say Adya and Francis have no taste in women at all :D ahahahaaaha
loll
Great discussion, of perennial pertinence but especially relevant in this age of PTSD (President Trump Stress Disorder?) and our current spiritual inflection point and apparent collective crisis ... More to Adya's important point about a mythos being a kind of intrinsic metaphysical truth encoded in archetypal allegory that can speak to, and perchance awaken, one's intuitive 'knowing,' viewers may want check out a book titled 'More Than Allegory' by Bernardo Kastrup (another batgap interviewee), for a more in-depth perspective on the universal significance of a numinous mythology, and perhaps the need for a more contemporary version, free of all the pious dogmatic baggage and locked-in mindsets, that can similarly speak to our current shifting paradigm ... or check out this Skeptiko interview ... ua-cam.com/video/15uFe2O57Kw/v-deo.html
Snow Leopard PTSD - President Trump Stress Disorder. Awesome.
Historicity of Jesus Christ is doubtful whereas buddha's life is well documented. But Christianity imitated Buddhism heavily. Buddhist tells Buddha's life is his teaching and likewise Christianity claims church is Christ's body. Even church bells are copied from Buddhist gongs and bells.
This nonsense has been thoroughly debunked over and over.
Blah blah non dual garbage, western society is a joke.........master slave........how much did it cost to hear the truth?
But I love this
It's not a western problem in particular, but I otherwise concur.
Go feed the homeless, do something useful
Gustav Adamas likewise