I feel like M/S processing is one more way to add contour to a mix. It seems like when you change the EQ and compression between the mid and the sides, it makes the mix feel like it has more dimension.
Hey Daedalus! Yep! It can widen or narrow the image - also, it can affect how much is present in either the mid or side, increasing or decreasing the depth. Thanks for watching! SageAudio.com
Yes, this is my understanding (L+R and L-R). I don't understand where the phase inversion comes into play. If you're tracking, ok, I understand. But mid/side processing, for example using plugins that have an MS mode, does not involve phase inversion...right?
Your videos guys were amazing i just hope that you could do some videos using pro tools or doing it in different DAW's as some technics aren't submitted there
I think one problem I'm having is mentally I keep referring to people saying to never duplicate the same vocal takes because of phasing issues.. but then when your explaining MSprocessing I believe you said you duplicate the same track an invert the phase of one right.. sorry I'm super new to learning to mix/mast properly..
Thanks for watching and leaving a comment Uzi! I think I was trying to demonstrate the difference between mid and side in this instance, but you have to forgive me I can't completely remember (made this video a while ago haha). You shouldn't be too worried about duplicating your vocal takes - if you're layering in vocal takes there will always be some phase interference, both constructive and destructive (meaning the waves align in a way that amplifies the overall signal, or they align in such a way that reduces the amplitude/cancels out some of the signal). As for mastering and mixing, most mid side processing happens within plugins that have already split the signal into separate mid and side signals. Like with a mid-side EQ, inside the plugin the signal is split into mid and side, and we affect each separate signal by equalizing either the mid or side channel. All this to say, you don't need to be too worried about it, just enjoy mixing or mastering and if something sounds really off, you might have processed in a way that caused a lot of destructive interference. SageAudio.com
Thanks for watching! You're absolutely right! In this video I just wanted to demonstrate the difference between mid-side and delay, but probably should have made it clear that I wasn't suggesting using sample delay on a master. SageAudio.com
Thank you for this excellent video. Newbie question: what if the audio file is mono and not stereo? Does the wav file still get evenly distributed side to side? ..and by adding a 100% pan of mid/side EQ does it do the same as a stereo file, with even 'horizontal' distribution? Or does mid/side go out the window with mono files?
Thanks for watching John! Mid side expansion doesn't work with mono files - if you're working on a mono vocal or track, and you add stereo reverb, you'll create a side image, so this is one work around to that. SageAudio.com
Thx for all the great infos here ! What about multiple M/S processing ? For example first with an EQ and then with some Compression, Distortion.. It is in many plug ins implemented. It feels wrong to do it multiple times.. Any comments on this ?
So unless I misunderstood you I think youre saying to compress the mids more than the side on ms comp to widen image but everything ive ever read and heard said to compress the sides more by like 2db total to achieve widening instead of compressing the mid more.
Weird! Compressing the mid image will widen the track since the level of the side image will now be greater relative to the mid. If you use make up gain after compressing the side image, then this would also widen the track since it would bring up quieter/masked details in the side. However, if you just compress the side image without make up gain, you'd create a more centered or narrow image.
Dumb question here. When you invert a signal and play it back with the original, why don't they simply cancel each other out, as in noise cancellation?
Thanks for watching! Not a dumb question - whenever you do a null test (duplicate the signal, invert one, and play both at the same time) everything that is identical about them will cancel out. Only what is different about them will still be there/not be cancelled.
Yes, if it's the same signal, then everything about the 2 signals is identical and everything will be cancelled out. Which part of the video are you referring to though? I can take a look and better explain what's happening.
I feel like M/S processing is one more way to add contour to a mix. It seems like when you change the EQ and compression between the mid and the sides, it makes the mix feel like it has more dimension.
Hey Daedalus! Yep! It can widen or narrow the image - also, it can affect how much is present in either the mid or side, increasing or decreasing the depth. Thanks for watching!
SageAudio.com
Finally an understandable mid side tutorial
Awesome! Thank you for watching
A mathematical illustration of mid-side processing:
Mid = (L + R) / 2
Side = (L - R) / 2
Hey Derek! Thanks for commenting with this!
SageAudio.com
Yes, this is my understanding (L+R and L-R). I don't understand where the phase inversion comes into play. If you're tracking, ok, I understand. But mid/side processing, for example using plugins that have an MS mode, does not involve phase inversion...right?
@@briancase6180 I know this is an old comment an you've prob figured it out by now, but man I am fuggin lost in this whole area of mixing/mastering..
Best video I've seen on mid side yet
That's awesome thank you!
SageAudio.com
Thank You Sage Audio..♥️ For Making This Valuable video 🙌 It Helps me Alot 😊🙏
Thanks for watching!
SageAudio.com
That Mid Boost on the lows THO??? JEWELS
Great video with lots of information thank you sage guys, in the future please do more videos on metal and rock songs :)
Hey Melih! Thanks for watching! We'll make some more videos with rock and metal in the future.
SageAudio.com
thank you so much for these great tips for us to learn more, greetings from Germany
Hey Alfredo! Thanks for watching! Awesome to hear that the tips were helpful!
SageAudio.com
btw nice track, smooth vocals
Hey motem00! Thanks for watching and leaving a comment!
SageAudio.com
Can I only send my mixing track with No EQ only Low cut .. Compressing and balancing. That's only and I hope.. your mastering found my tonal .. can i?
Thanks so much for the great tips and explanations 👌
Thanks for watching! Glad you enjoyed it!
SageAudio.com
Your videos guys were amazing i just hope that you could do some videos using pro tools or doing it in different DAW's as some technics aren't submitted there
Amazingly explianed..
Hey Rossey! Thanks so much for watching!
SageAudio.com
loved it ....
Awesome! Thanks for watching!
SageAudio.com
Love it!
thank you guys ! it's super useful
btw what's the song name?
Hey S F! Thanks for watching! It's called 'The Mirror' by Mindme, Emmi
SageAudio.com
I think one problem I'm having is mentally I keep referring to people saying to never duplicate the same vocal takes because of phasing issues.. but then when your explaining MSprocessing I believe you said you duplicate the same track an invert the phase of one right.. sorry I'm super new to learning to mix/mast properly..
Thanks for watching and leaving a comment Uzi! I think I was trying to demonstrate the difference between mid and side in this instance, but you have to forgive me I can't completely remember (made this video a while ago haha). You shouldn't be too worried about duplicating your vocal takes - if you're layering in vocal takes there will always be some phase interference, both constructive and destructive (meaning the waves align in a way that amplifies the overall signal, or they align in such a way that reduces the amplitude/cancels out some of the signal).
As for mastering and mixing, most mid side processing happens within plugins that have already split the signal into separate mid and side signals. Like with a mid-side EQ, inside the plugin the signal is split into mid and side, and we affect each separate signal by equalizing either the mid or side channel. All this to say, you don't need to be too worried about it, just enjoy mixing or mastering and if something sounds really off, you might have processed in a way that caused a lot of destructive interference.
SageAudio.com
Haas effect on the master is a sure fire way to destroy your entire mix’s mono compatibility
Thanks for watching! You're absolutely right! In this video I just wanted to demonstrate the difference between mid-side and delay, but probably should have made it clear that I wasn't suggesting using sample delay on a master.
SageAudio.com
Thank you for this excellent video. Newbie question: what if the audio file is mono and not stereo? Does the wav file still get evenly distributed side to side? ..and by adding a 100% pan of mid/side EQ does it do the same as a stereo file, with even 'horizontal' distribution? Or does mid/side go out the window with mono files?
Thanks for watching John! Mid side expansion doesn't work with mono files - if you're working on a mono vocal or track, and you add stereo reverb, you'll create a side image, so this is one work around to that.
SageAudio.com
Much appreciated!!!
Hey Lamell! Thanks so much for watching!
SageAudio.com
Thank you for video. What’s the name of the background song? Sounds awesome.
Thx for all the great infos here ! What about multiple M/S processing ? For example first with an EQ and then with some Compression, Distortion.. It is in many plug ins implemented. It feels wrong to do it multiple times.. Any comments on this ?
After the Exciter use mid Side eq.results are better .At least for me .
How much do you guys mixing an mastering services cost??
Thanks for watching Uzi! We only do mastering - I've linked the rates in the comment.
www.sageaudio.com/rates.php
Very Nice
Thanks for watching!
SageAudio.com
So unless I misunderstood you I think youre saying to compress the mids more than the side on ms comp to widen image but everything ive ever read and heard said to compress the sides more by like 2db total to achieve widening instead of compressing the mid more.
Weird! Compressing the mid image will widen the track since the level of the side image will now be greater relative to the mid. If you use make up gain after compressing the side image, then this would also widen the track since it would bring up quieter/masked details in the side. However, if you just compress the side image without make up gain, you'd create a more centered or narrow image.
@@sageaudio thank you for the videos and knowledge
Use linear phase when Eqing mid side while mastering or you will change the phase relationships of mid and side
NICE!
Thanks for watching!
SageAudio.com
Underestimated channel
Awesome thanks! And thanks for watching!
SageAudio.com
SAGE AUDIO, is it pointless to master in main project ?
Thanks for watching! You can do that - it may be a lot of processing for one project/session though.
SageAudio.com
This song is awesome is it out?
Yep it's called The Mirror by MindMe
@@sageaudio awesome bro thanks! I can’t tell you how many times I had to rewind the demonstrations because I got caught up just enjoying the song 🤣
what are the name of the plugins u use
Thanks for watching! When we master for clients we use hardware, but for these demonstrations we mainly use FabFilter plugins.
SageAudio.com
Is mid/ side only used at the mastering stage ?
No. You can do that on any audio or midi channel you want
Dumb question here. When you invert a signal and play it back with the original, why don't they simply cancel each other out, as in noise cancellation?
Thanks for watching! Not a dumb question - whenever you do a null test (duplicate the signal, invert one, and play both at the same time) everything that is identical about them will cancel out. Only what is different about them will still be there/not be cancelled.
@@sageaudio 😲 I'm so confused. If you start with the same signal isn't it all perfectly identical???
Yes, if it's the same signal, then everything about the 2 signals is identical and everything will be cancelled out. Which part of the video are you referring to though? I can take a look and better explain what's happening.
At 0:50. Invert one signal to create the side signals. Don't they just cancel out?
Official video
Hey Sonny! Thanks for watching!
SageAudio.com
Nice as always. Can I get reply with emoji?
Thanks for watching Zax! 😊🎶
SageAudio.com
@@sageaudio hahah thanks ❤
oh..."reflect me", I thought she was singing.. Anyway thank you
Master try