Jackson Crawford has a great channel. He is an academic who presents things very objectively and in his own words "Real expertise in Norse language and myth, free of both ivory tower elitism and the agendas of self-appointed gurus." His cowboy havamal is online and its becoming me favorite version of the text. (I also just love his production style.)
He has published a more formal translation of the Havamal and a number of other books that could be of interest. www.amazon.co.uk/Wanderers-Havamal-Jackson-Crawford/dp/1624668356
As someone who is new to Paganism and Heathenry this was a great video to help me find resources on it! It is nice to find content that is steered away from racism or fascism... Thank you for the awesome content and steering me in a good direction.
Thanks for the book recommendations. I'm currently reading Havamal and its great!..."Men become friends when they can share their minds with one another. Anything is better than being lied to: a real friend will disagree with you openly." (Havamal 124)...This is so true especially when discussing religion and mythology. Going to get 'The Viking Spirit' and 'Norse Myths.' Thanks again!
Thanks! I've been pagan for close to 30 years, but came to heathenism just a couple of years ago, so I'm still finding my way around it. Thank you so much for your book suggestions. I've actually purchased a few of these books while you were talking.
I like this video, which is mostly a collection of book reviews. The book reviews are clear and concise, and fast paced without being difficult to follow. I get the impression that these book reviews are objective because Ocean is also recommending attitudes for reading that will help readers get the most out of these books.
I’m probably going to pick up the more philosophical books first. I appreciate that you’re a philosophically grounded heathen, as a deconstructing Christian, I need that aspect in order to be able to properly say that I believe something.
@@sponge5196 this is 8 months late, but if you are interested in a Roman source that may help, but not be about religion entirely, but overall mythology, then I would recommend the Aeneid by Virgil.
I started with a book called Drawing down the Moon. It has the description and history of a ton of branches of paganism so you can see what resonates with you
Which edition do you have. The edition I have talks about the AFA without the nationalism/ racist slant they become. I believe there are 4 editions out there .
I'm actually hoping to get a really pretty version of the Hávamál at some point, like one of those fancy hardbacks of it. The Illustrated Hávamál looks really attractive for $45...
I'm confused. My copy of the poetic edda appears to have the havamal already in it (I have the Jackson Crawford edition). Do I really need to buy a separate book for it?
I’m going through the intro to heathenry playlist and crazy enough I had come across McCoy last night as I was attempting to dig more into the stories of Freyr after watching the video on him. As always with Heathenry I try to find a source I know I can trust that references a new source to avoid the…darker side. Super excited to see his book on your list Ocean!
Awesome video! As a lokean, there's a lot to sift through and you have to find a balance between historical worship and more esoteric practices. Either way, great video!
I’ve had a copy of Snorre Sturlason’s Heimskringla sitting on my shelf for over a year. I had planned to read it before I picked up the Poetic Edda, but it’s so hefty I can’t get into it. I’m thinking now that I’ll get a copy of the Hávamál. Thanks for a wonderful video Ocean.
Anything by H.R. Ellis Davidson is pretty good. "Gods and Myths of Northern Europe" is a good one to start with for Norse/Germanic, and "Myths and Symbols of Pagan Europe" delves a fair bit into the Celtic side of it as well.
I'm researching different paths of Paganism after recently (ish, it was actually like nearly 5 years ago at this point, but time feels fake) learning about the problematic origins of Wicca (a religion I had, until this point of dropping it/stepping away from it, started following when I was a preteen [circa early 2000s]), and one such path I've been drawn to has been Norse paganism. Particularly after learning the concept of "frith". And your channel has just been insanely informational (this video especially) but also really comforting? Like the fact that you're very vocally against the bigoted subset of heathens/asatru/norse pagans, it helps ease some of my worries. Because I'm not going to lie, the white supremacy/"blood purity" co-opting norse mythology and such made me super apprehensive. Though, despite my *first* introduction to Norse paganism being those type of awful people, the vast majority of people I know of who follow this path are either queer and/or trans like I am, or at the very least are vocally against it, as you are (though I will make no assumptions about your gender identity or sexuality). I completely lost the plot of the point I was trying to make, but I just. Am glad I found your youtube channel. The way you approach topics makes me want to learn more. And I look forward to watching more of your videos :)
A good book about neo-paganism (not all are reconstruction) is Drawing Down the Moon by Margot Adler. She writes about the history and practices of many different neo Pagan religions and movements. I read it a long time ago, but it had a wealth of information if you are looking to see what sort of things are out there today and what they are about. I think someone also wrote a similar book that is a bit more recent, but I don't know much about it.
Have you heard of Dr. Jackson Crawford? He has a very accessible translation of the Poetic Edda, and a UA-cam channel dedicated to sharing accurate, scholarly information about all things Old Norse.
I have been a pagan for the better part of 12 years. I found “my calling” if you will when I was in Afghanistan. I must say I enjoy hearing your points of view and your intelligence. Good stuff. I just recently found your channel about a week and a half ago. Much to catch up on. Skól!
Thanks Ocean! Great video and extra thank you for such strong focus on just how hard digging up valid info on Celtic tradition really is. Plan to check out all the books you mentioned, once I get extraneous life bullshit back on track. Take care!
I came to my path as an Eclectic Wiccan who always chose to work with Germanic Gods since I am half German and half Chickasaw. I truly have no idea what to call my practices these days. I no longer can consider myself Wiccan , even though I workef with Heathen Gods as a Wiccan , Heathenry never really quite spoke to me. I have however spent a considerable amount of time researching my Chickasaw heritage and have been putting the knowledge gained from research and exposure to Cultural events my Tribe hosts every year and started putting all this new knowledge into my rituals. So I know I am npt doing ritual the way my ancestors did from either side of my family. But me working with my Native heritage in rituals based around BTW Wicca seems to be working and makes my very small ritual group truly "Unique" among my local Pagan community. I hate the word Coven , but a ritual group is a ritual group if they meet at least twice a month. We meet weekly...every Sunday
I started the path with dreams... And then a book about Wicca (I don't consider myself Wiccan but it piqued my curiosity enough to begin venturing away from Christianity). "How do I Pagan?" has been a question I have asked myself many times, so I giggled when I saw this in the thumbnail. Also, I'm still mostly in the broom closet with my family. Thank you for your content and thoughtfulness in sharing, Sir. I appreciate it.
I've been reading "The Viking Spirit" lately and one question that came to mind was one about the afterlife, I feel like in the modern world everyone can die and go to Hel but what about Valhalla? How does one get into Valhalla in the modern times where we cannot die gloriously in battle or be chosen for certain acts that were seen as fit for Odin?
Thank you for your thoughts. I also like your format. You know, I've found myself pretty well ignoring literature. It was good for learning cursory information, make no mistake, and I will still look on occasion. An introduction to what's there. In other words, I'm not into reconstruction. I think the gods themselves change and have done so many times. When I honour my background (which has roots in Central Eurasia, the Mediterranean, and Siberia), I do what I can to honour it all in practical ways. Everyday life. I venerate Hephaistos, for advising my path in carpentry and minor woodworking/metalworking projects. Gifts and expressions of gratitude. What comes to me to give, I give. I don't actively research how someone may have done these things 2500 years ago. When I look to Gok Tengri (the eternal blue sky), I have a similar approach. My rituals may resemble what people do now or did in the past, but it's all based on real-world feedback, if you know what I mean. I wouldn't even say that I worship any deities. Just venerate, knowing full-well that I'm responsible for my own evolution. I respect anyone's approach to these things. I don't judge... unless there's child sacrifice or some other heinous shit.
Somewhat of a recent heathen/pagan, was almost on my way to becoming a Southern Baptist minister until I came out during college, then did a 15 year stint in a Sufi/Fourth Way School where I studied more esoteric Judeo Christian practices, some Native Americas Spiritual practices, Asian spiritual ritual (Tao, Buddha Nature, Hindu, Zoroastrian Johrei and Reiki), off shoots of Islam such as Baha'i and Sufi but very little of European Pagan/Heathen traditions so I will probably want to read most of the books you've suggested and thank you.
I always message them a list of Reconstructionist books. Hope I don't offend any people out there. I just don't like people seeing the Eddas as a Heathen Bible. Half of that stuff in those books aren't even concepts Heathens believed in.
Why do you want to believe what Heathens believed in? That would make you a terrible person by post-Christian ethical standards, and I don't think you want to go being labeled all sorts of things by everyone.
For solid Celtic historical background, I would highly recommend: T.F. O’Rahilly (his abusive footnotes are almost as enjoyable as his books) J.P. Mallory Barry Cunliffe John T. Koch (the above two are also the major proponents of the “Celtic from the West” hypotheses) Dáithí Ó hÓgáin These are all rock solid Celtic historical sources imho.
I picked up Viking Spirit and The Case for Polytheism. I'm not entirely set on believing gods but i'm very in touch with some of the practices in paganism. I'm hoping the book will give me a new perspective.
If people are looking for a start on Celtic paganism, specifically Irish paganism, the Irish Pagan School is an excellent place to start. It's run by an Irish Draoi who is Indigenous to Ireland. Everything taught is backed up by the old texts that are still available. It also covers how to practice today. And anyone interested in the Old Irish texts, excellent translations are done by Morgan Daimler.
I prefer to get all my information about paganism from Inspiring Philosophy - that's how I know European polytheism didn't leave a single trace of cultural residue in our society. Damn...I must take down that Christmas Tree already.
European folk practices have some cultural resonance in the current day, but only in a superficial sense like how we decorate for Christmas and Easter and how we celebrate them around times of the year that a solstice and equinox festival would have been held, respectively. In terms of our values and social norms, they not only have nothing to do with European Paganism, they are directly in opposition to any given Pagan worldview. Post-war Western ethics are informed entirely by post-Christian and even specifically anti-fascist values. Anything outside of that narrow purview is verboten, and you know it, and you will avoid it. You can LARP as a Pagan, but think like one and you will find yourself ostracized by your peers. Anyone that deviates from post-Christian dogma (basically summed up in the French Republic's slogan "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity", "fraternity" referring to the brotherhood of all mankind and erasure of nation-states, as opposed to a more Pagan one like "fatherland, faith, and family", which ironically some Catholic nations did adopt, which makes sense as the only remnants of Paganism were found in Catholicism and in the European Faustian desire for world exploration and conquest, and those were wiped away in the final battle, Ragnarok, or World War I and II as most people know them) is only going to get themselves into trouble. Now, don't confuse Christianity with post-Christianity, I'm not saying Christians didn't have any Pagan in them, but post-Christians have had that dangerous spirit of vitality and masculinity stripped away, rendering us harmless and docile. The postmodern West is certainly the most feminine civilization, one that takes the announcement that the first shall be last and the last shall be first and the meek shall inherit the Earth from Christianity and runs with it, spawning liberalism, anarchism, and Marxism in the process. And from Christ's advice to "turn the other cheek" we get the postmodern love of pacifism and inability to defend our national borders or defend the public from violent criminals. If you are on the left, you are more Christian than you think. The left/right dichotomy is a mutation of the split between Protestants and Catholics, espessially the division that emerged in Great Britain during the Wars of the Three Kingdoms and English Civil War in particular. Protestant sects like the Levelers and the Diggers were essentially proto-leftists, in fact proto-Bolsheviks, revolutionary fighters that wanted land owned in common, and the Quakers were proto-leftists but devoted to pacifism instead, so the original hippies haha. I wouldn't call myself a Pagan because the chasm of time and culture between them and I is so vast, but I do think I am definitely an odd man out in this civilization because I do not subscribe to post-Christian OR Christian ethics, and I probably would agree with ancient Pagans on a lot of stuff, but that's because I'm absurdly reactionary by today's standards. I'm not a universalist, I think every civilization (meaning every people group which created said civilizations) has its own destiny and that we needn't muck about in the business of other cultures. I find it weird how being an isolationist is treated as though it is akin to its opposite, imperialism. Now it isn't even enough that the white man renounced his power over the world, he also has to make himself a servant that spends his time leading horses to water and trying to force them to drink. Oh, and a fool that makes himself the butt of every joke. My thinking is, if you at all fit in, or feel like you belong, in this society, then you can't possibly think like a Pagan in any meaningful sense. If someone thinks this society is soul-crushing and backwards, well, then I may be willing to entertain the idea that such a person is a Pagan.
@@titanomachy2217 so you took a lighthearted jibe at Inspiring Philosophy and decided to lecture me on your own grand narrative, born, from what I can tell, from the pseudo historical revisionist politics of Tom Holland and a taint of culture war BS. Put the swastika down and walk away.
@@bengreen171 Walk away? I'm not LARPing as "Pagan", I'm agnostic, but lean towards panentheism or pandeism. I'm just saying you're living in a fantasy if you think any pre-Christian Europeans held values that are at all akin to your Progessive beliefs. I am curious what "Pagan" even means to people like you. Do you actually believe in any Pagan deities? It's hard to believe that a post-Christian atheist could spontaneously start believing in Odin just because he thinks Norse mythology and aesthetics are cool. When push comes to shove, you don't care about the gods you claim to worship, you care about being sociopolitically orthodox, hence your allusion to the swastika as a negative thing rather than a positive solar symbol. Besides, did you forget that European Pagans practiced slavery? You should loathe the Vikings just like you hate the Germans from the 1930s. Why not just turn your back on all that gross European stuff? It's problematic. If you need a god to worship that isn't from an Abrahamic faith, why not pick a more universalist one like the Neoplatonist Monad?
I picked up The Viking Spirit! I love it so far! It’s great! I am only on I think chapter one that talks on the Gods. I love how the author presents his findings and his interpretations
in my personal journey i found Wicca: A Guide for the Solitary Practitioner by Scott Cunningham and The Book of Celtic Magic: Transformative Teachings from the Cauldron of Awen by Kristoffer Hughes to be super helpful. Scott is a practitioner so his book is written with that bias but he does a very good job at breaking down rituals and implements and why we use them and when. Kristoffer wrote his book with a focus on the gods and goddesses, recounting their stories and myths and going into detail about druidic practices. i found both of these books when i first started out and they really helped me shape my own personal practice and rituals, things i liked or didn't like or just didn't make sense
Definitely picking up a few and then the remaining books you recommended. I’ll even settle for audio versions on like Audible or something. I’ve been conflicted for awhile now on this path to take. I’m doing a lot of research and just overall watching and listening to what you have to say. I haven’t “converted” if you will because I don’t think I’m worthy or knowledgeable yet. I know that sounds bizarre but it’s how I feel. It’s like I have one foot in and one foot out. I know Norse Paganism is for me but I need to grasp more on it and educate myself. I’m not afraid of people knowing or family at that but what does concern me is the dating scene. More bizarre, right? Lol. As a gay man it’s hard enough to find an ounce of quality out there and if the opportunity arises how accepting can one be? I guess I’m venting lol. Suppose I should ground myself first in this new religion and have a solid foundation. All in all I just wanna say is that you are so informative and love how present your videos. I sit down for hours watching and rewatching your content just learning. Thank you.
I have heard of The Viking Spirit but never thought of reading it. I will pick it up. I have read the Eddas and wish I could read old Norse because in different languages I feel one thinks differently. Enjoy your channel.
I should really stop reading comments on Heathen youtube videos, there's always someone stroking their ego claiming some stupid shit about liberals while pretending they care about the historical context of norse paganism 🥴 Great video, please continue to be openly anti-fascist, and thank you for the great sources!
So I’m really diving into your channel and I’ve found myself slowly leaning away from the Wiccan spiritual approach and towards general paganism and heathenry. I’m struggling with where to really begin, my only daily spiritual ritual involving meditating in front of my basic altar and reaching out to Cernunnos and an unidentified goddess. It’s a bit daunting, especially since I don’t have any ancestral connection, so I feel a bit like a spiritual outcast in the community, but I’m making my way down the path
I picked up A Case for Polytheism (literally while watching it), and will likely check out the others. Think I already have a copy of the Poetic Edda, and probably the Prose Edda too, but I'd have to look for it. Thank you for the recommendations
Cultural Atlas of The Viking World from facts on file is a really good book for anybody interested in learning more about cultures, the lands, jewlery they wore, places they went and founded, the christianization of these places , its an all around awesome book for any beginner IMO
I was thinking about picking up The Case for Polytheism, but wanted to ask, is it readable or a sort of academic book? Seems really interesting but I wont be able to finish a slog...
The argument for polytheism book is definitely something Ill look into. I have a very good friend, whi is Christian and would very much like to explain my reasoning for being a Norse Pagan better. Thank you for the sources and keep up the good work!
I've been led to believe a lot of the bloodthirstiness of the Norse practice was inserted retroactively by Norse Christian converts, and the more famous sagas were written in this period. An example of such a revision being the "Blood Eagle" ritual. Based on what you know, is this take factual?
Roberta Frank in "viking atrocity and skaldic verse: the rite of the blood-eagle" suggests that it is just a kenning for leaving one's foe face-down on the battlefield, their backs being torn by scavenging birds. This was likely to be used as a Martyrdom tactic meant to parallel Saint Sebastian's execution at the hand of Diocletian, who was shot full of arrows until his ribs and internal organs were exposed. However others like Alfred Smyth who characterise St. Dunstan's description of Ælla's killing as a human sacrifice to Odin. So really it's a "hot topic" for debate. Human sacrifices are not uncommon throughout history the same way that honour killings or stonings are. However this doesn't necessarily reflect the current day practices of adherents so take from it what you will.
Ocean, I am beginning my own spiritual journey at the library. I enjoy your content. Your humor and attention to detail resonate. I understand discernment is required when pouring over this material and I would like to tap into your experience. The flagrantly and obvious white supremacist material is typically easy to spot. When it comes to folkish authors that are trying to “slip under the radar”, how do they typically tend to present in their writings as opposed to unbiased and inclusive authors on heathenry? Are there typical “flags” for healthy sources as opposed to unhealthy sources? Do you have any wisdom stuck within the omnipotent beard you would be willing to part with?
i feel like me ,i toddle along ,with sticky fingers picking up stuff & randomized things attach some good some bad but atleast im still learning some time i hope i never stop learning
I actually downloaded a few of them as you were reading the titles off. A World Full of Gods, The Case for Polytheism, and The Viking Spirit. I'm looking for an accessible copy of the the Havamal as I type this. I am... for lack of a better term. A very much non-Christian with hold-over beliefs from my Christian upbringing. I actually agree quite a bit with the Pelagian systems you've outlined in other videos, but it's still not a perfect fit. I'm not really sure what I am or if there's a name for it, but I don't want to be lied to or controlled anymore. I originally began my journey outwardly in high school. I was a very religiously devout child, but there were things that didn't jive with me and got me in trouble with my church. I couldn't accept Original Sin. How could beings who were innately sinful and evil reach towards utter holiness? Why would they want to? That just never sat with me. I didn't understand the belief that Jesus and God were the same person, either but that's a different story. And as someone who frequently got in trouble for the bad behavior of others, I was very much not okay with being told I was a bad person. I got enough of that in my daily life, thank you. So, in high school, I studied world religion, and things started to form patterns for me. People all over the world behaved in more or less similar ways. They were all pack-dwellers, they all wanted to belong, to have eternal life, if not eternal rest. They wanted absolution and more importantly, they were all scared of something when their religions came to prominence. So I started to believe that all gods were just God in different forms. That every reach toward goodness was the same effort, regardless of what it was called. I met a ghost. No joke. I have no other explanation for what I saw other than a ghost and a friend described the same thing. That opened a whole new door of beings without bodies that Christian God didn't explain. When I discovered Wicca in college, I was fascinated. I started hanging out with Kemetics and Wiccans. In the last year, I started trying my hand at kitchen witchcraft and green witchcraft. But I also didn't want to be part of a coven or of a particular faith group. Because I remember all too well what it was like to be pressured into doing or believing things I didn't actually believe. So I'm now studying as many authentic sources for old world religions as I can find. I don't know that I believe any of them yet. I don't know that I believe in magic or multiple gods, but, I believe that out there, there is a place where we go when we die, and I believe there's at least one god out there who loves us. And I believe that something or someone must have looked out for me when I have had a few scares in the past. So I'm trying to find where I fit. Or maybe make a practice of my own if nothing suits me. Because if I'm to spend my life in service of a god or gods or magic, it'll be on my terms and no one else's. Thank you for helping me on my journey.
Your comment resonates with me. I was brought up a Christian and as I've gotten older (I'm about to turn 51) things are much muddier for me from a spiritual standpoint. I don't like conformity or coercion. To me the basic tenets of most religions are all the same: Don't be a dickhead. 🙂 Currently, I'm looking into Heathenry but admittedly coming from a romanticized point of view. Which is why I tread lightly. I'm not joining any faith simply because it's cool. All I know for certain is I feel less of a pull towards anything but rather a pull away from Christianity. I certainly experience what Ocean has referenced as Latent Christianity. However, someone living a predominately humble and righteous life but whom does not believe in Jesus as the son of God or as the "savior" will earn eternal damnation or at the least, a denial of a heaven like afterlife just does not compute for me at all. Being a good person, seems to me, to be more important than whatever external source you resonate with as being the reason for being said good person. And being more centrist to right leaning in my politics and NOT part of the religious right makes this probably seem strange to many. Not all political ideologies are derived from someone's religion or lack of one.
Even though I'm not Shinto and I know that modern Shinto is not ancient European paganism I tend to like studying things about Shinto simply because its one of the very few example of a surviving polytheistic religion and I feel that it gives a fairly good picture and feel of many of the things which might have applied to European polytheism as well.
I can happily say I was never indoctrinated into anything. My mom was careful on that(her and I have talked on it before her passing). She wanted me to believe in whatever I chose as I grew up. Pretty early on I knew nothing much resonated with me regarding Christianity. Around age 12-13 I got really interested in Buddhism and Hinduism in both a spiritual and academic view. Then I started reading all sorts of books. The Bardo Thodol(Tibetan book of the dead) bhagavadGita, the upanishads, and more. From there my mom gave me some stuff on druidry, and I loved it. I was maybe 17 and I jumped into paganism and heathenry. Started reading the elements of the runes, the Poetic and Prose Edda, the little book of little ritual knowledge( I think that's the title, it's on what little ritual information is left on norse spiritual practice.) And for around 13 years I've considered myself a heathen/pagan. And I agree with your sentiment, get some books, do some research and see what sticks with you. Gebo Dagaz Fehu to you! (Gift of clarity and financial prosperity)🍻
I know this is a longshot commenting on a year old video that doesnt have any recent comments. However this is the best video to leave my comment that puts it in the best context. I havent gone deep in my search but I was curious if there were any resources for learning about slavic paganism? Anyones answer with any advice would be greatly appreciated, thank you!
@@OceanKeltoi Again, you miss the point. Anyone truly concerned with spirituality doesn't preface their teachings with proclamations about 1920-1930's political theory. Anyone who does is little more than a gate-keeping hack more in common with an atheistic, liberal materialist.
@@OceanKeltoi The manufactured concern is greater than the perceived threat itself. So I will re-iterate: if your concern for threats to contemporary liberal politics is placed above any adherence to spiritual thought or practice, all it does is call into question your priorities and credentials. I tire of people who consider themselves spiritual, but not in a real true sense. Only in the sense of a ganja-smoking teen looking to "find themselves". They proclaim spirituality and yet are 99.9% identical to every other vapid rootless liberal around them. Hence repeating mainstream mantras about "muh fashisms" or some other contrived nonsense.
@@InhabitantOfOddworld This seems to create a false distinction. Are there people whose spirituality suffers when caught up in political discussions? Sure, I'd say that's a thing. But for many of us, our politics are informed by our spirituality. And given the trends in Heathenry with respect to fascism, there's a need to speak out on it. For me, it's more of the latter. I'm not super public about my personal hearth practice, but it also doesn't involve the public. Things that do, however, involve the public, are my positions on issues relating to society as informed by my spirituality. And that's fine.
I don't get the question anymore. When I was starting out, it was hard to find books. (The books existed, but shops that sold them were hard to find, you mostly had to order them by mail, and there was no internet yet.) Finding community was nearly impossible, outside of California, England, and a few big cities. It's much easier now.
Thank you very much, I have unexplainable love and interest in Celtic mythology, folklore, religion and belives and had for years no source for knowledge but Wiccan reinterpretations and flufybunies fluffy-bunnies (one of whom was a friend of main), is there anything Celtic specific you can recommend? Mostly interested in sources as accurate as possible (which is a bummer since most of our knowledge of them is from Christian lens...)
Big fan of the havamal myself, even though I'm wiccan. And oh yeah the edda has a few Christian influences, like the whole implying of one deity left with 2 subjects or something like that so it can imply something like genesis. Lovely video though.
I am ex-Christian. Was training to be a deacon in the Catholic Church. There is absolute zero Christian influence at the end of Voluspa. Stanza 60 reads: "...Baldr will come back. Goth and Baldr will live in Odin's Hall, as well as other gods..." After Ragnarok there will still be polytheism. Multiple gods and goddesses. I fail to see where the Christain influence is in that or why a Christian would write that. They would write that only one God (YHWH) would remain - hence the biblical title of the "God of gods" I am confused as to where you got the idea that there will be one deity "with 2 subjects" left. I never recall seeing that in the Havamal.
@@odinstrom3989 oh sorry I meant it in the rest of the eddas not in the havamal. And that's fair, It must have been my view or misreading it, sorry my friend. Wodan hopefully isn't too bothered by my dyslexia.
Hmm well its spread between many stories in the Celtic Irish realm for definite but not as a practice.. The Oisin cycles the Red branch knights .. stories on the Fianna etc..
What do you think of The Masks of Odin, by Elsa-Brita Titchenell? I disagree here or there with the author, but the book really opens the mind. (The book is available in paperback and is available for free in PDF format from the publisher"s website)
Do you have a video where you expound on what you find philosophically or rationally appealing about polytheism? I know you've mentioned that you find it more compelling when contrasting it to Monotheism but I haven't found a video where you expound on that in the positive. Thanks.
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I was wondering if you'd recommend any of the books written by Edred Thorsson...?
Books are for people who have time to read. I may or may not pick up a book on pagan philosophy. But that's like ten philosophy books down my list already.
@@shivashakti1975 yet they both seemed to know a lot about comparative religion. crowley wrote the definitive book of correspondences called '777'. with tables of incenseses etc. that is where i heard of things like 'the supreme attainment'.
We will begin this the same way our ancestors started the .. traditions, making it up as we go by word of mouth. As for the Romans, lending off the Greek, sitting in a room surrounded by scroll and theater play writers coming up with the best propaganda con game they could. -- yes I think very high regarding the Catholic church.
Thank you, overall your list is informative, overall, I like your list. I would say, let people read a wide range of authors, and have them decide which ones make the most sense to them and can identify with the most. This would include much more Left-leaning authors that have a very universalistic, globalist view to those that are much more ethnocentric/ethnocultural such as Stephen McNallen.
Do you have any good sources for celtic polytheism specifically? (I'm leaning more towards welsh but from what I've heard even less of that survived than the pagan religions of the Irish and Scottish peoples...)
@@OceanKeltoi Do you have links for those? Because they don't seem present in the description, unless those names you're mentioning are something different and not the names of the author? Because that's the only thing I know to check for...
@@OceanKeltoi Thanks~! :D. I just remembered, were those the two you said came from a more historical lens early on in the video? Whelp, still a good place to start.
@@000Dragon50000 Yes. I'm not super familiar with good spots to find more spiritual sources on Celtic Polytheism. It's a very daunting world. Historical information, however, can give you a good background to draw from in discerning what you're reading when you do start down that path. Links added.
The Gods are real. When academic sources are missing, precluding someone from using a checklist to practice their faith, simply turn to the Gods. They can guide a person through spiritual practice. This isn’t woo nor fluffy to do so.
Well that was a short video. 9 seconds long for you to tell me you dont know about pagans. I stopped it there since I trust you. Guess I'll go ask a fluffy bunny....
As much as I like JMG's "A World Full of Gods" be wary of him as a source past this. He promotes some sketchy fascist-adjacent stuff like Oswald Spengler.
Good stuff to be aware of, thanks a bunch. As far as AWFoGs is concerned, there isnt anything like that in that particular book, but it is always good to know when an author might have evolved or has stances like that.
Thank you for both this video and ua-cam.com/video/N-8eESOsmec/v-deo.html. In other comment sections on your channel, I have stated that I am diving into what to read and study so that I can establish a decent foundation for my spiritual and magical education. Since my last comment, somewhere on your channel, I have ordered both the Poetic Edda and the Prose Edda and look forward to their arrival in the next few days. Your video has given me an exciting list of books, and I'll likely start with The Case for Polytheism and move on to A World Full of Gods. After that, I'll read the Havamal and look into the sagas. I do have one question for you if or when you have the time, what is your opinion on Neil Gaiman's Norse Mythology? I am currently reading it because it was a gift from my wife a couple of years ago; I think when it first came out, I don't know. Sincerely, Kaid
I'm a modified solitary Celtic Wiccan, and the answer it it takes years yo. Lots of time sifting through piles of misinformation or very wild speculation. Also I've come from Rachel's channel, where I was told to tell you that you suck...really like your channel tho!
Have you heard the Tragedy of Darth Pelagius the Wise? It's not a story the Catholics would tell you.
Have you heard of the High Elves?
The altmeri dominion... these sons of...
Do you get to the cloud district very often?
@@madgodsheogorath3982 Oh what are you saying? Of course they don't.
Haha you win @parkercambell
Jackson Crawford has a great channel. He is an academic who presents things very objectively and in his own words "Real expertise in Norse language and myth, free of both ivory tower elitism and the agendas of self-appointed gurus." His cowboy havamal is online and its becoming me favorite version of the text. (I also just love his production style.)
He has published a more formal translation of the Havamal and a number of other books that could be of interest. www.amazon.co.uk/Wanderers-Havamal-Jackson-Crawford/dp/1624668356
Thank you!
That man is an icon.
I own a copy of his translation of the Poetic Edda, and highly recommend it.
I just checked it out. Great stuff, thank you!
As someone who is new to Paganism and Heathenry this was a great video to help me find resources on it! It is nice to find content that is steered away from racism or fascism... Thank you for the awesome content and steering me in a good direction.
Thanks for the book recommendations. I'm currently reading Havamal and its great!..."Men become friends when they can share their minds with one another. Anything is better than being lied to: a real friend will disagree with you openly." (Havamal 124)...This is so true especially when discussing religion and mythology.
Going to get 'The Viking Spirit' and 'Norse Myths.' Thanks again!
Thanks! I've been pagan for close to 30 years, but came to heathenism just a couple of years ago, so I'm still finding my way around it. Thank you so much for your book suggestions. I've actually purchased a few of these books while you were talking.
"Do you think you're going to pick up one of these books?"
Me: "What do you mean, one?"
I like this video, which is mostly a collection of book reviews. The book reviews are clear and concise, and fast paced without being difficult to follow. I get the impression that these book reviews are objective because Ocean is also recommending attitudes for reading that will help readers get the most out of these books.
I’m probably going to pick up the more philosophical books first. I appreciate that you’re a philosophically grounded heathen, as a deconstructing Christian, I need that aspect in order to be able to properly say that I believe something.
-Stares in Anglo-Saxon Heathen*
Does anyone know any reliable sources for Roman Paganism?
@@sponge5196 this is 8 months late, but if you are interested in a Roman source that may help, but not be about religion entirely, but overall mythology, then I would recommend the Aeneid by Virgil.
@@kylestehura4241 Much appreciated.
I started with a book called Drawing down the Moon. It has the description and history of a ton of branches of paganism so you can see what resonates with you
Margot Adler is a great source
Which edition do you have. The edition I have talks about the AFA without the nationalism/ racist slant they become. I believe there are 4 editions out there .
I can't find any copiesssss
Just picked up the Kevin Crossley Holland book on audible. Thank you for continuing to be a valuable resource on this topic, Ocean.
I already have the poetic Edda, I'll be picking up the havemal as soon as I can spell it right
I'm actually hoping to get a really pretty version of the Hávamál at some point, like one of those fancy hardbacks of it. The Illustrated Hávamál looks really attractive for $45...
I'm confused. My copy of the poetic edda appears to have the havamal already in it (I have the Jackson Crawford edition). Do I really need to buy a separate book for it?
@@EveInTheMachine The Havamal is part of the Poetic Edda as far as I am aware
I’m going through the intro to heathenry playlist and crazy enough I had come across McCoy last night as I was attempting to dig more into the stories of Freyr after watching the video on him. As always with Heathenry I try to find a source I know I can trust that references a new source to avoid the…darker side. Super excited to see his book on your list Ocean!
Awesome video! As a lokean, there's a lot to sift through and you have to find a balance between historical worship and more esoteric practices. Either way, great video!
I’ve had a copy of Snorre Sturlason’s Heimskringla sitting on my shelf for over a year. I had planned to read it before I picked up the Poetic Edda, but it’s so hefty I can’t get into it. I’m thinking now that I’ll get a copy of the Hávamál. Thanks for a wonderful video Ocean.
I'm scrolling through your videos and freaking out - I have so much I want/need to waaatch!!!
I know it's not on this video but me and my ancestors thank you for recognizing the Northern Crusade as Genocide
Planning to grab The Practical Guide and A Case for Polytheism. Thanks for the info!
Anything by H.R. Ellis Davidson is pretty good. "Gods and Myths of Northern Europe" is a good one to start with for Norse/Germanic, and "Myths and Symbols of Pagan Europe" delves a fair bit into the Celtic side of it as well.
I'm researching different paths of Paganism after recently (ish, it was actually like nearly 5 years ago at this point, but time feels fake) learning about the problematic origins of Wicca (a religion I had, until this point of dropping it/stepping away from it, started following when I was a preteen [circa early 2000s]), and one such path I've been drawn to has been Norse paganism.
Particularly after learning the concept of "frith". And your channel has just been insanely informational (this video especially) but also really comforting? Like the fact that you're very vocally against the bigoted subset of heathens/asatru/norse pagans, it helps ease some of my worries.
Because I'm not going to lie, the white supremacy/"blood purity" co-opting norse mythology and such made me super apprehensive.
Though, despite my *first* introduction to Norse paganism being those type of awful people, the vast majority of people I know of who follow this path are either queer and/or trans like I am, or at the very least are vocally against it, as you are (though I will make no assumptions about your gender identity or sexuality).
I completely lost the plot of the point I was trying to make, but I just. Am glad I found your youtube channel. The way you approach topics makes me want to learn more. And I look forward to watching more of your videos :)
A good book about neo-paganism (not all are reconstruction) is Drawing Down the Moon by Margot Adler. She writes about the history and practices of many different neo Pagan religions and movements. I read it a long time ago, but it had a wealth of information if you are looking to see what sort of things are out there today and what they are about. I think someone also wrote a similar book that is a bit more recent, but I don't know much about it.
Have you heard of Dr. Jackson Crawford? He has a very accessible translation of the Poetic Edda, and a UA-cam channel dedicated to sharing accurate, scholarly information about all things Old Norse.
Jackson Crawford is a fantastic source of information.
I have been a pagan for the better part of 12 years. I found “my calling” if you will when I was in Afghanistan. I must say I enjoy hearing your points of view and your intelligence. Good stuff. I just recently found your channel about a week and a half ago. Much to catch up on. Skól!
Thanks Ocean! Great video and extra thank you for such strong focus on just how hard digging up valid info on Celtic tradition really is. Plan to check out all the books you mentioned, once I get extraneous life bullshit back on track. Take care!
I came to my path as an Eclectic Wiccan who always chose to work with Germanic Gods since I am half German and half Chickasaw. I truly have no idea what to call my practices these days. I no longer can consider myself Wiccan , even though I workef with Heathen Gods as a Wiccan , Heathenry never really quite spoke to me. I have however spent a considerable amount of time researching my Chickasaw heritage and have been putting the knowledge gained from research and exposure to Cultural events my Tribe hosts every year and started putting all this new knowledge into my rituals. So I know I am npt doing ritual the way my ancestors did from either side of my family. But me working with my Native heritage in rituals based around BTW Wicca seems to be working and makes my very small ritual group truly "Unique" among my local Pagan community. I hate the word Coven , but a ritual group is a ritual group if they meet at least twice a month. We meet weekly...every Sunday
This sounds awesome I'm glad you've built a practice that blends your two branches of heritage
I started the path with dreams... And then a book about Wicca (I don't consider myself Wiccan but it piqued my curiosity enough to begin venturing away from Christianity). "How do I Pagan?" has been a question I have asked myself many times, so I giggled when I saw this in the thumbnail. Also, I'm still mostly in the broom closet with my family. Thank you for your content and thoughtfulness in sharing, Sir. I appreciate it.
I'm so glad I found you fist, I would have gotten so lost in all that trying to learn...
I've been reading "The Viking Spirit" lately and one question that came to mind was one about the afterlife, I feel like in the modern world everyone can die and go to Hel but what about Valhalla? How does one get into Valhalla in the modern times where we cannot die gloriously in battle or be chosen for certain acts that were seen as fit for Odin?
There is more than Valhalla and Hel, like Sessrumnir and more. Ocean made a video about it
Most people won't, but those who go to war and die will. We have wars in today's world. But there's more than Valhalla and Hel
Thank you for your thoughts. I also like your format.
You know, I've found myself pretty well ignoring literature. It was good for learning cursory information, make no mistake, and I will still look on occasion. An introduction to what's there.
In other words, I'm not into reconstruction. I think the gods themselves change and have done so many times. When I honour my background (which has roots in Central Eurasia, the Mediterranean, and Siberia), I do what I can to honour it all in practical ways. Everyday life. I venerate Hephaistos, for advising my path in carpentry and minor woodworking/metalworking projects. Gifts and expressions of gratitude. What comes to me to give, I give. I don't actively research how someone may have done these things 2500 years ago. When I look to Gok Tengri (the eternal blue sky), I have a similar approach. My rituals may resemble what people do now or did in the past, but it's all based on real-world feedback, if you know what I mean. I wouldn't even say that I worship any deities. Just venerate, knowing full-well that I'm responsible for my own evolution.
I respect anyone's approach to these things. I don't judge... unless there's child sacrifice or some other heinous shit.
Going to pick up each. Already have the Havamal and Prose Edda.
Good stuff, man. Thanks.
Somewhat of a recent heathen/pagan, was almost on my way to becoming a Southern Baptist minister until I came out during college, then did a 15 year stint in a Sufi/Fourth Way School where I studied more esoteric Judeo Christian practices, some Native Americas Spiritual practices, Asian spiritual ritual (Tao, Buddha Nature, Hindu, Zoroastrian Johrei and Reiki), off shoots of Islam such as Baha'i and Sufi but very little of European Pagan/Heathen traditions so I will probably want to read most of the books you've suggested and thank you.
I always message them a list of Reconstructionist books. Hope I don't offend any people out there. I just don't like people seeing the Eddas as a Heathen Bible. Half of that stuff in those books aren't even concepts Heathens believed in.
Why do you want to believe what Heathens believed in? That would make you a terrible person by post-Christian ethical standards, and I don't think you want to go being labeled all sorts of things by everyone.
For solid Celtic historical background, I would highly recommend:
T.F. O’Rahilly (his abusive footnotes are almost as enjoyable as his books)
J.P. Mallory
Barry Cunliffe
John T. Koch
(the above two are also the major proponents of the “Celtic from the West” hypotheses)
Dáithí Ó hÓgáin
These are all rock solid Celtic historical sources imho.
I picked up Viking Spirit and The Case for Polytheism. I'm not entirely set on believing gods but i'm very in touch with some of the practices in paganism. I'm hoping the book will give me a new perspective.
If people are looking for a start on Celtic paganism, specifically Irish paganism, the Irish Pagan School is an excellent place to start. It's run by an Irish Draoi who is Indigenous to Ireland. Everything taught is backed up by the old texts that are still available. It also covers how to practice today. And anyone interested in the Old Irish texts, excellent translations are done by Morgan Daimler.
I prefer to get all my information about paganism from Inspiring Philosophy - that's how I know European polytheism didn't leave a single trace of cultural residue in our society. Damn...I must take down that Christmas Tree already.
Huh?
@@Cathy1864
sorry - unless you know who Inspiring Philosophy is, that sarcastic remark will be lost on you.
European folk practices have some cultural resonance in the current day, but only in a superficial sense like how we decorate for Christmas and Easter and how we celebrate them around times of the year that a solstice and equinox festival would have been held, respectively. In terms of our values and social norms, they not only have nothing to do with European Paganism, they are directly in opposition to any given Pagan worldview. Post-war Western ethics are informed entirely by post-Christian and even specifically anti-fascist values. Anything outside of that narrow purview is verboten, and you know it, and you will avoid it. You can LARP as a Pagan, but think like one and you will find yourself ostracized by your peers. Anyone that deviates from post-Christian dogma (basically summed up in the French Republic's slogan "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity", "fraternity" referring to the brotherhood of all mankind and erasure of nation-states, as opposed to a more Pagan one like "fatherland, faith, and family", which ironically some Catholic nations did adopt, which makes sense as the only remnants of Paganism were found in Catholicism and in the European Faustian desire for world exploration and conquest, and those were wiped away in the final battle, Ragnarok, or World War I and II as most people know them) is only going to get themselves into trouble. Now, don't confuse Christianity with post-Christianity, I'm not saying Christians didn't have any Pagan in them, but post-Christians have had that dangerous spirit of vitality and masculinity stripped away, rendering us harmless and docile. The postmodern West is certainly the most feminine civilization, one that takes the announcement that the first shall be last and the last shall be first and the meek shall inherit the Earth from Christianity and runs with it, spawning liberalism, anarchism, and Marxism in the process. And from Christ's advice to "turn the other cheek" we get the postmodern love of pacifism and inability to defend our national borders or defend the public from violent criminals. If you are on the left, you are more Christian than you think. The left/right dichotomy is a mutation of the split between Protestants and Catholics, espessially the division that emerged in Great Britain during the Wars of the Three Kingdoms and English Civil War in particular. Protestant sects like the Levelers and the Diggers were essentially proto-leftists, in fact proto-Bolsheviks, revolutionary fighters that wanted land owned in common, and the Quakers were proto-leftists but devoted to pacifism instead, so the original hippies haha. I wouldn't call myself a Pagan because the chasm of time and culture between them and I is so vast, but I do think I am definitely an odd man out in this civilization because I do not subscribe to post-Christian OR Christian ethics, and I probably would agree with ancient Pagans on a lot of stuff, but that's because I'm absurdly reactionary by today's standards. I'm not a universalist, I think every civilization (meaning every people group which created said civilizations) has its own destiny and that we needn't muck about in the business of other cultures. I find it weird how being an isolationist is treated as though it is akin to its opposite, imperialism. Now it isn't even enough that the white man renounced his power over the world, he also has to make himself a servant that spends his time leading horses to water and trying to force them to drink. Oh, and a fool that makes himself the butt of every joke.
My thinking is, if you at all fit in, or feel like you belong, in this society, then you can't possibly think like a Pagan in any meaningful sense. If someone thinks this society is soul-crushing and backwards, well, then I may be willing to entertain the idea that such a person is a Pagan.
@@titanomachy2217
so you took a lighthearted jibe at Inspiring Philosophy and decided to lecture me on your own grand narrative, born, from what I can tell, from the pseudo historical revisionist politics of Tom Holland and a taint of culture war BS.
Put the swastika down and walk away.
@@bengreen171 Walk away? I'm not LARPing as "Pagan", I'm agnostic, but lean towards panentheism or pandeism. I'm just saying you're living in a fantasy if you think any pre-Christian Europeans held values that are at all akin to your Progessive beliefs. I am curious what "Pagan" even means to people like you. Do you actually believe in any Pagan deities? It's hard to believe that a post-Christian atheist could spontaneously start believing in Odin just because he thinks Norse mythology and aesthetics are cool. When push comes to shove, you don't care about the gods you claim to worship, you care about being sociopolitically orthodox, hence your allusion to the swastika as a negative thing rather than a positive solar symbol. Besides, did you forget that European Pagans practiced slavery? You should loathe the Vikings just like you hate the Germans from the 1930s. Why not just turn your back on all that gross European stuff? It's problematic. If you need a god to worship that isn't from an Abrahamic faith, why not pick a more universalist one like the Neoplatonist Monad?
I picked up The Viking Spirit! I love it so far! It’s great! I am only on I think chapter one that talks on the Gods. I love how the author presents his findings and his interpretations
in my personal journey i found Wicca: A Guide for the Solitary Practitioner by Scott Cunningham and The Book of Celtic Magic: Transformative Teachings from the Cauldron of Awen by Kristoffer Hughes to be super helpful. Scott is a practitioner so his book is written with that bias but he does a very good job at breaking down rituals and implements and why we use them and when. Kristoffer wrote his book with a focus on the gods and goddesses, recounting their stories and myths and going into detail about druidic practices. i found both of these books when i first started out and they really helped me shape my own personal practice and rituals, things i liked or didn't like or just didn't make sense
Definitely picking up a few and then the remaining books you recommended. I’ll even settle for audio versions on like Audible or something. I’ve been conflicted for awhile now on this path to take. I’m doing a lot of research and just overall watching and listening to what you have to say. I haven’t “converted” if you will because I don’t think I’m worthy or knowledgeable yet. I know that sounds bizarre but it’s how I feel. It’s like I have one foot in and one foot out. I know Norse Paganism is for me but I need to grasp more on it and educate myself. I’m not afraid of people knowing or family at that but what does concern me is the dating scene. More bizarre, right? Lol. As a gay man it’s hard enough to find an ounce of quality out there and if the opportunity arises how accepting can one be? I guess I’m venting lol. Suppose I should ground myself first in this new religion and have a solid foundation. All in all I just wanna say is that you are so informative and love how present your videos. I sit down for hours watching and rewatching your content just learning. Thank you.
Thank you thank you thank you for the recommendations of academic celtic polytheism sources! They are incredibly hard to find.
I have heard of The Viking Spirit but never thought of reading it. I will pick it up. I have read the Eddas and wish I could read old Norse because in different languages I feel one thinks differently. Enjoy your channel.
Seems like you should write a book, Ocean.
Although not directly religious, there are some great philosophical texts by plothinus explaining his neoplatonism. Just wanted to add a comment
I should really stop reading comments on Heathen youtube videos, there's always someone stroking their ego claiming some stupid shit about liberals while pretending they care about the historical context of norse paganism 🥴 Great video, please continue to be openly anti-fascist, and thank you for the great sources!
So I’m really diving into your channel and I’ve found myself slowly leaning away from the Wiccan spiritual approach and towards general paganism and heathenry. I’m struggling with where to really begin, my only daily spiritual ritual involving meditating in front of my basic altar and reaching out to Cernunnos and an unidentified goddess. It’s a bit daunting, especially since I don’t have any ancestral connection, so I feel a bit like a spiritual outcast in the community, but I’m making my way down the path
I picked up A Case for Polytheism (literally while watching it), and will likely check out the others. Think I already have a copy of the Poetic Edda, and probably the Prose Edda too, but I'd have to look for it. Thank you for the recommendations
My ancestors were British and it makes me sad that so much information has been lost
Cultural Atlas of The Viking World from facts on file is a really good book for anybody interested in learning more about cultures, the lands, jewlery they wore, places they went and founded, the christianization of these places , its an all around awesome book for any beginner IMO
I was thinking about picking up The Case for Polytheism, but wanted to ask, is it readable or a sort of academic book? Seems really interesting but I wont be able to finish a slog...
It's not an overly dense book. I'd describe it as an intermediate read.
@@OceanKeltoi Thanks.
Ill probably pick uo the practical heathens guide. New to heathenry here and im eager to learn more.
The argument for polytheism book is definitely something Ill look into. I have a very good friend, whi is Christian and would very much like to explain my reasoning for being a Norse Pagan better. Thank you for the sources and keep up the good work!
Good information intelligently presented. I will read "The Case for Poytheism" (intrigued by the title) and "A World Full of Gods"
I have most of Cunliffe's books, but I like reading more about the Saxon/Heathen side, so thank you.
Your presentations are excellent, well thought out and have persuaded this ex- catholic to take another look at belief systems.
I've been led to believe a lot of the bloodthirstiness of the Norse practice was inserted retroactively by Norse Christian converts, and the more famous sagas were written in this period. An example of such a revision being the "Blood Eagle" ritual. Based on what you know, is this take factual?
Roberta Frank in "viking atrocity and skaldic verse: the rite of the blood-eagle" suggests that it is just a kenning for leaving one's foe face-down on the battlefield, their backs being torn by scavenging birds. This was likely to be used as a Martyrdom tactic meant to parallel Saint Sebastian's execution at the hand of Diocletian, who was shot full of arrows until his ribs and internal organs were exposed.
However others like Alfred Smyth who characterise St. Dunstan's description of Ælla's killing as a human sacrifice to Odin.
So really it's a "hot topic" for debate. Human sacrifices are not uncommon throughout history the same way that honour killings or stonings are. However this doesn't necessarily reflect the current day practices of adherents so take from it what you will.
Honestly I’ll grab at least 3 of these XD
dooo it.
"Bunnies. Floppy, hoppy bunnies..." (Grips sword with purpose)
The poetic Edda and the Prose Edda are two very good books. Probably my main sources of learning of the gods and the beginning of everything.
Sincere thanks for such a cool and useful video & bonus points for calling out the Become A Living God huckster
Thank you for the library recommends, O.K.! ^_^
Ocean, I am beginning my own spiritual journey at the library. I enjoy your content. Your humor and attention to detail resonate. I understand discernment is required when pouring over this material and I would like to tap into your experience. The flagrantly and obvious white supremacist material is typically easy to spot. When it comes to folkish authors that are trying to “slip under the radar”, how do they typically tend to present in their writings as opposed to unbiased and inclusive authors on heathenry? Are there typical “flags” for healthy sources as opposed to unhealthy sources? Do you have any wisdom stuck within the omnipotent beard you would be willing to part with?
i feel like me ,i toddle along ,with sticky fingers picking up stuff & randomized things attach some good some bad but atleast im still learning some time i hope i never stop learning
I actually downloaded a few of them as you were reading the titles off.
A World Full of Gods, The Case for Polytheism, and The Viking Spirit. I'm looking for an accessible copy of the the Havamal as I type this.
I am... for lack of a better term. A very much non-Christian with hold-over beliefs from my Christian upbringing. I actually agree quite a bit with the Pelagian systems you've outlined in other videos, but it's still not a perfect fit. I'm not really sure what I am or if there's a name for it, but I don't want to be lied to or controlled anymore.
I originally began my journey outwardly in high school. I was a very religiously devout child, but there were things that didn't jive with me and got me in trouble with my church. I couldn't accept Original Sin. How could beings who were innately sinful and evil reach towards utter holiness? Why would they want to? That just never sat with me. I didn't understand the belief that Jesus and God were the same person, either but that's a different story. And as someone who frequently got in trouble for the bad behavior of others, I was very much not okay with being told I was a bad person. I got enough of that in my daily life, thank you.
So, in high school, I studied world religion, and things started to form patterns for me. People all over the world behaved in more or less similar ways. They were all pack-dwellers, they all wanted to belong, to have eternal life, if not eternal rest. They wanted absolution and more importantly, they were all scared of something when their religions came to prominence.
So I started to believe that all gods were just God in different forms. That every reach toward goodness was the same effort, regardless of what it was called. I met a ghost. No joke. I have no other explanation for what I saw other than a ghost and a friend described the same thing. That opened a whole new door of beings without bodies that Christian God didn't explain.
When I discovered Wicca in college, I was fascinated. I started hanging out with Kemetics and Wiccans. In the last year, I started trying my hand at kitchen witchcraft and green witchcraft. But I also didn't want to be part of a coven or of a particular faith group. Because I remember all too well what it was like to be pressured into doing or believing things I didn't actually believe. So I'm now studying as many authentic sources for old world religions as I can find. I don't know that I believe any of them yet. I don't know that I believe in magic or multiple gods, but, I believe that out there, there is a place where we go when we die, and I believe there's at least one god out there who loves us. And I believe that something or someone must have looked out for me when I have had a few scares in the past.
So I'm trying to find where I fit. Or maybe make a practice of my own if nothing suits me.
Because if I'm to spend my life in service of a god or gods or magic, it'll be on my terms and no one else's.
Thank you for helping me on my journey.
That was very well written, thank you for posting.
Hope you have a good weekend and G*D bless.
Your comment resonates with me. I was brought up a Christian and as I've gotten older (I'm about to turn 51) things are much muddier for me from a spiritual standpoint. I don't like conformity or coercion. To me the basic tenets of most religions are all the same: Don't be a dickhead. 🙂
Currently, I'm looking into Heathenry but admittedly coming from a romanticized point of view. Which is why I tread lightly. I'm not joining any faith simply because it's cool. All I know for certain is I feel less of a pull towards anything but rather a pull away from Christianity. I certainly experience what Ocean has referenced as Latent Christianity.
However, someone living a predominately humble and righteous life but whom does not believe in Jesus as the son of God or as the "savior" will earn eternal damnation or at the least, a denial of a heaven like afterlife just does not compute for me at all.
Being a good person, seems to me, to be more important than whatever external source you resonate with as being the reason for being said good person.
And being more centrist to right leaning in my politics and NOT part of the religious right makes this probably seem strange to many. Not all political ideologies are derived from someone's religion or lack of one.
How do you feel about Neil Gaiman's Norse Mythology? Is it a good source or should I go ahead and see about getting another one?
I found this a very helpful video, and my book would be Håvamål (as it is written in Norwegian)
Even though I'm not Shinto and I know that modern Shinto is not ancient European paganism I tend to like studying things about Shinto simply because its one of the very few example of a surviving polytheistic religion and I feel that it gives a fairly good picture and feel of many of the things which might have applied to European polytheism as well.
I can happily say I was never indoctrinated into anything. My mom was careful on that(her and I have talked on it before her passing). She wanted me to believe in whatever I chose as I grew up. Pretty early on I knew nothing much resonated with me regarding Christianity. Around age 12-13 I got really interested in Buddhism and Hinduism in both a spiritual and academic view. Then I started reading all sorts of books. The Bardo Thodol(Tibetan book of the dead) bhagavadGita, the upanishads, and more. From there my mom gave me some stuff on druidry, and I loved it. I was maybe 17 and I jumped into paganism and heathenry. Started reading the elements of the runes, the Poetic and Prose Edda, the little book of little ritual knowledge( I think that's the title, it's on what little ritual information is left on norse spiritual practice.) And for around 13 years I've considered myself a heathen/pagan. And I agree with your sentiment, get some books, do some research and see what sticks with you. Gebo Dagaz Fehu to you!
(Gift of clarity and financial prosperity)🍻
What book am I going to pick up? Why the one YOU'RE going to write of course! Hope you find a way--if not, make one.
I know this is a longshot commenting on a year old video that doesnt have any recent comments. However this is the best video to leave my comment that puts it in the best context. I havent gone deep in my search but I was curious if there were any resources for learning about slavic paganism? Anyones answer with any advice would be greatly appreciated, thank you!
4:40
Another good warning is anyone who brings up "but reeeee fashisms" during their talk on paganism/heathenry
Fascism is not compatible with Heathenry.
@@OceanKeltoi
Again, you miss the point. Anyone truly concerned with spirituality doesn't preface their teachings with proclamations about 1920-1930's political theory.
Anyone who does is little more than a gate-keeping hack more in common with an atheistic, liberal materialist.
@@InhabitantOfOddworld Unfortunately it's a relevant concern within the culture of Heathenry. Ignoring that simply lets it fester.
@@OceanKeltoi
The manufactured concern is greater than the perceived threat itself.
So I will re-iterate: if your concern for threats to contemporary liberal politics is placed above any adherence to spiritual thought or practice, all it does is call into question your priorities and credentials.
I tire of people who consider themselves spiritual, but not in a real true sense. Only in the sense of a ganja-smoking teen looking to "find themselves". They proclaim spirituality and yet are 99.9% identical to every other vapid rootless liberal around them.
Hence repeating mainstream mantras about "muh fashisms" or some other contrived nonsense.
@@InhabitantOfOddworld This seems to create a false distinction. Are there people whose spirituality suffers when caught up in political discussions? Sure, I'd say that's a thing. But for many of us, our politics are informed by our spirituality. And given the trends in Heathenry with respect to fascism, there's a need to speak out on it. For me, it's more of the latter. I'm not super public about my personal hearth practice, but it also doesn't involve the public. Things that do, however, involve the public, are my positions on issues relating to society as informed by my spirituality. And that's fine.
I don't get the question anymore.
When I was starting out, it was hard to find books. (The books existed, but shops that sold them were hard to find, you mostly had to order them by mail, and there was no internet yet.) Finding community was nearly impossible, outside of California, England, and a few big cities.
It's much easier now.
Thank you very much, I have unexplainable love and interest in Celtic mythology, folklore, religion and belives and had for years no source for knowledge but Wiccan reinterpretations and flufybunies fluffy-bunnies (one of whom was a friend of main), is there anything Celtic specific you can recommend? Mostly interested in sources as accurate as possible (which is a bummer since most of our knowledge of them is from Christian lens...)
A Circle of Stones is a good modern Celtic source I’ve worked with a wee bit
@@MysticMuttering I am not much of a spiritualist, but thank you.
Big fan of the havamal myself, even though I'm wiccan. And oh yeah the edda has a few Christian influences, like the whole implying of one deity left with 2 subjects or something like that so it can imply something like genesis. Lovely video though.
I am ex-Christian. Was training to be a deacon in the Catholic Church. There is absolute zero Christian influence at the end of Voluspa. Stanza 60 reads:
"...Baldr will come back. Goth and Baldr will live in Odin's Hall, as well as other gods..."
After Ragnarok there will still be polytheism. Multiple gods and goddesses. I fail to see where the Christain influence is in that or why a Christian would write that. They would write that only one God (YHWH) would remain - hence the biblical title of the "God of gods"
I am confused as to where you got the idea that there will be one deity "with 2 subjects" left. I never recall seeing that in the Havamal.
@@odinstrom3989 oh sorry I meant it in the rest of the eddas not in the havamal.
And that's fair, It must have been my view or misreading it, sorry my friend. Wodan hopefully isn't too bothered by my dyslexia.
This book is very much in the public sphere but I am curious, what are your thoughts on Neil Gaiman's retelling of Norse Mythology?
Hmm well its spread between many stories in the Celtic Irish realm for definite but not as a practice.. The Oisin cycles the Red branch knights .. stories on the Fianna etc..
What do you think of The Masks of Odin, by Elsa-Brita Titchenell?
I disagree here or there with the author, but the book really opens the mind.
(The book is available in paperback and is available for free in PDF format from the publisher"s website)
What do you think of Dr Jackson Crawfords books? His books gave me alot of the knowledge that I have now.
I'm picking up what you're putting down lol
Do you have a video where you expound on what you find philosophically or rationally appealing about polytheism? I know you've mentioned that you find it more compelling when contrasting it to Monotheism but I haven't found a video where you expound on that in the positive. Thanks.
I was wondering if you'd recommend any of the books written by Edred Thorsson...?
Books are for people who have time to read. I may or may not pick up a book on pagan philosophy. But that's like ten philosophy books down my list already.
Can you do a vid on panthiest
Why not the prose edda by Snorri?
@4:40 WT* man! He was was going to tell me how to become a god!
t. lobsang rampa. crowley (especially his essays on "comparitive religion"), alan watts. Those are a few authors that helped me learn.
basically, the whole a. a. reading list, too.
Lobsang Rampa was a fraud. Crowley was not, but he was also not a polytheist. Crowley had only one god: Himself.
@@shivashakti1975 yet they both seemed to know a lot about comparative religion. crowley wrote the definitive book of correspondences called '777'. with tables of incenseses etc. that is where i heard of things like 'the supreme attainment'.
@@shivashakti1975 i disagree. he at least believed in pan. and the hga. that is not himself.
We will begin this the same way our ancestors started the .. traditions, making it up as we go by word of mouth.
As for the Romans, lending off the Greek, sitting in a room surrounded by scroll and theater play writers coming up with the best propaganda con game they could. -- yes I think very high regarding the Catholic church.
Thank you, overall your list is informative, overall, I like your list. I would say, let people read a wide range of authors, and have them decide which ones make the most sense to them and can identify with the most. This would include much more Left-leaning authors that have a very universalistic, globalist view to those that are much more ethnocentric/ethnocultural such as Stephen McNallen.
The UA-cam channel of Jackson Crawford gives good academic material on Norse language, history, and mythology.
I can’t afford any books. Are there any good websites?
Is there any celtic source anyone can recommend ?
I added a couple celtic sources to the description.
Maybe you should do a little more research on Ireland and Scotland.
Do you have any good sources for celtic polytheism specifically? (I'm leaning more towards welsh but from what I've heard even less of that survived than the pagan religions of the Irish and Scottish peoples...)
The two sources that I put up from Hutton and Cunliffe are great places to start.
@@OceanKeltoi Do you have links for those? Because they don't seem present in the description, unless those names you're mentioning are something different and not the names of the author? Because that's the only thing I know to check for...
I’ll get the links added to the description for the books I referenced.
@@OceanKeltoi Thanks~! :D. I just remembered, were those the two you said came from a more historical lens early on in the video? Whelp, still a good place to start.
@@000Dragon50000 Yes. I'm not super familiar with good spots to find more spiritual sources on Celtic Polytheism. It's a very daunting world. Historical information, however, can give you a good background to draw from in discerning what you're reading when you do start down that path.
Links added.
The Gods are real. When academic sources are missing, precluding someone from using a checklist to practice their faith, simply turn to the Gods. They can guide a person through spiritual practice. This isn’t woo nor fluffy to do so.
Well that was a short video. 9 seconds long for you to tell me you dont know about pagans. I stopped it there since I trust you.
Guess I'll go ask a fluffy bunny....
DONT. TOUCH. THE BUNNY!
@@OceanKeltoi The rabbit of Caerbannog?
Lora O'Brien is pretty decent for Irish pagan spirituality.
i got a bible ad on this help-
As much as I like JMG's "A World Full of Gods" be wary of him as a source past this. He promotes some sketchy fascist-adjacent stuff like Oswald Spengler.
Good stuff to be aware of, thanks a bunch. As far as AWFoGs is concerned, there isnt anything like that in that particular book, but it is always good to know when an author might have evolved or has stances like that.
Who here knows any research of Wodonaz
Thank you for both this video and ua-cam.com/video/N-8eESOsmec/v-deo.html.
In other comment sections on your channel, I have stated that I am diving into what to read and study so that I can establish a decent foundation for my spiritual and magical education. Since my last comment, somewhere on your channel, I have ordered both the Poetic Edda and the Prose Edda and look forward to their arrival in the next few days. Your video has given me an exciting list of books, and I'll likely start with The Case for Polytheism and move on to A World Full of Gods. After that, I'll read the Havamal and look into the sagas.
I do have one question for you if or when you have the time, what is your opinion on Neil Gaiman's Norse Mythology?
I am currently reading it because it was a gift from my wife a couple of years ago; I think when it first came out, I don't know.
Sincerely,
Kaid
I'm a modified solitary Celtic Wiccan, and the answer it it takes years yo. Lots of time sifting through piles of misinformation or very wild speculation. Also I've come from Rachel's channel, where I was told to tell you that you suck...really like your channel tho!