NEIL GAIMAN ACCUSATIONS PART 2
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- We are back to discuss the second Tortoise article with 2 more victims alleging accusations against writer Neil Gaiman.
Source:
www.tortoiseme...
#patriarchy #patriarchal #feminist #feminists #feminism #equity #equality #oppression #sexism #misogyny #misogynistic
I am so happy to see this younger generation of women standing up and supporting each other and calling out all the b s so many men had been getting away with for so, so long.
Hey, Fish! We watch the same stuff :) you're cool!
Feminist men
tell that to Trevor Bauer. women lie. goldiggers dig gold.
Props to you for addressing the inviting men over bit 👏👏👏 it is wild to me how many times I’ve heard the blame shift to the women who invited a man over. It is truly outing and damning to say that it is a woman’s problem - a “what did she expect?” - when something happens. As always, thank you for doing the good work!
And then they cry loneliness crisis and get mad at decentering men movements, but... what did he expect? No consequences for their actions forever? They really do view us as mere things and not adaptable lifeforms to be blindsided by women quiet quitting on them.
thank you so much C!!! ❤
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That's why I actively avoid male """""friends"""". Manifestelle put it in words, but there's always this weird social stigma surrounding it anyway, that you as a woman should know that every man you interact with will want sex from you and be predatory. And somehow, it is your fault for not anticipating their predatory behaviour and thjnking of them as a normal human being . 🤔🤔
And if you don’t trust men you’re bitter and wrong
thanks for spreading the word on this. the lack of media reporting on this is so unsettling
💯👏🏻🎯✊🏻
Friendship is a strong force.
#solovely🌈
His "boys" control the media
This!! This is THE FIRST IM HEARING ABOUT THIS. I watch news and am online. Also was her part 1 taken down?? I can’t find it
It's allegations not conviction
When I was a single Mom of 2 kids 15 years ago, my landlord kept making jokes about me giving him mouth to mouth if he fell off the ladder, etc. I think he was going in my room when I was work. He was so stupid that I set up a broken ass web cam on an old laptop and placed it in the entryway. Never heard a word again.... but then he started hanging outside my windows 'doing yard work' so I confronted him with a hidden camera. Then he just played stupid. Almost like he knew I was recording? Kinda eerie. I moved out after living there a few years. He complained about my motorcycle and basically that I yelled at him a few times for invading my privacy. Once he knew I wasn't going along with it. I know exactly what this kind of guy does. That was when I was 40. I can't even imagine if I were younger. Also, later on in life, I have had to stop using my Strava app or anything that would let someone know the vicinity of where I was at. I had some weirdos who I thought were casual acquaintances. And honestly, by this time, I was married and my husband knew them too. Thanks, once again, for doing this video.
I’m an avid reader and Gaiman has been one of my faves. These revelations have been beyond upsetting. I am disgusted.
My heart goes out to all of these women and I intend to add my voice to others to bring him to justice.
I'm not a Gaiman expert, I read only a couple of things of his. Among the things I read there are a few Sandman comics that someone passed me a long time ago.
The tenant situation reminds me an awful lot a story that I read in Sandman. The story was about some evil guy that for a reason I can't remember got to keep a female angel locked in his apartment and this guy regularly SX abused the angel. The angel became his SX sl4ve.
Have you read that story?
Exactly...
I'm only a few minutes in. Having had a few of these things happen to me I can tell you, having housing discussed and then being propositioned, the message is crystal clear. Even as a kid of 13, the message was clear: do as I say or you're homeless. That is not consent.
This!
Oh my god I'm so sorry. I hope you are healing and in a safer place in your life.❤
yeah exactly!! plus the celebrity effect on top of that.
& im so so sorry that happened to you 💔
@yv_edit thank you, and before I get the inevitable "you didn't have to do it" or some other nonsense, I'm tired of men and enablers pretending like this isn't common because it is. Predators don't say it out right because they are cowards, even to themselves. They are too cowardly to even say "do this for a place to stay or else" out loud. I didn't post it as a trauma dump or a bid for sympathy. I go to therapy and survived and continue to survive. I want other people to know and be aware and to learn these people don't say it straight up because they want plausible deniability, even to themselves later.
When someone tells you they’re a male feminist they’ve warned you twice
@@shenotski Pls 😅😅😅
🎯🎯🎯
@@copyninja8756 I'm pretty sure she knows exactly what the fuck she just said.
😮
@@copyninja8756 Every man who tries to warn people about the Gaimans of the world is called an anti-feminist.
I like how you take time to clarify how an invitation to hang out is specifically for that, unless something else has been laid out, and that a sleeping person can't consent unless things have been discussed properly and agreed to.
Explicit consent is important and ethical for all involved parties.
The more power he got, the more his appetite increased and he knew he could get away with it. That's why he backed off back in the 80s. He knew exactly what he was doing.
And his ex, Amanda Palmer, is saying nothing. She was the one who brought the nanny into their house. She was the one who introduced them. She's just as culpable. She knew what he was doing for years, wrote a song about it. And she's saying nothing. They are both disgusting.
I have read articles about girls and women graped then coerced into pro*titution, then became the one who brought more girls in.
I'm convinced these types of women are equally victims - they become the scapegoat for the real criminal. (Including Ghislaine Maxwell.)
Scarlett said when telling Palmer she said 14 other women have come to her before. It's a she said/she said situation, but I have my doubts she knew absolutely nothing from the get-go. He is a manipulator and a liar, yes. Considering he duped a lot of people, she could have been deceived, yes. But the silence, man... my trust was severely damaged.
Well Amanda Palmer is a scammer. She scammed her fans with the use of Neil Gaiman's name in a Kickstarter multiple times. They are 2 peas in a pod
Thanks for keeping us up to date on these predatory men. It makes it really clear how situations play out. You are helping keep so many women safe.
Thank you for your reporting.
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We need to stop giving these men honorary degrees and putting them on panels etc just because they made up a story or got money from a novel. The bar is in hell.
HELL!! The devil hangs his curtains on that bar!!
Then we should stop doing that to women too.
Why am I never shocked by a new case, regardless of who our beloved protagonist is.
Why do I keep just living my life while I wait for the next famous/powerful dude to be exposed not too late after the last one.
Why, oh why.
1:35 This is why I say never accept a "gift" from a man, because he will always use it to guilt trip you into doing what he wants.
This is a number one thing I plan to teach my niece when she gets old enough to understand. A gift is *never* just a gift from a man. Men don’t give you things for free. There is no “kindness of their hearts” only a _throbbing_ in their veins!!
I'm starting to think that if it's not all it's many or maybe most
some might be too poor or lack the resources to pull this off. But how many men, when put into Neil's shoes could resist the urge? We used to have chaperones for this exact reason.
Yep. More women need to understand this. Most men are not good people. It's just the facts of life
@electron-Volt this is completely false. That is a choice and men are capable of self control
@electron-Volt i think one of the sad things is, Neils has done tons of research trying to develop a typpe of sopphisticated perspective and that little by little, he's come to betray it wit his actions. Like it makes me wonder if great writing, associations, and accolades could resist villainy, but i guess it cant.
Welcome to the misandry fair. Tickets are free
There's a part two Damn you Neil 🤦😢😢.
Writers love a trilogy
He chose that woman specifically because she had 3 DAUGHTERS. True predator calculations.
Fame+money =power for men power+men= ab!use most likely
Most men who want want, want to ab!use people with it. Look around men who have money
I've read an interview in which he identifies with big bad wolf in little red riding hood. Which is telling a lot.
Source?
@@te9591 I sent link twice but it was deleted. My source is N.G. Journal.
@@te9591 I don't know why but my answers to you were deleted multiple times. I guess I can't give you source here. I try giving you hint : it's his own journal which is online.
@@mirianakovachevic748 woah. Yeah, now that i think of it YT usually wipes out links
@@te9591 You are right. I have an idea to send you part of interview and if you google few sentences you can find it online. Here it is : Later, as an adult, I remember encountering the story of Red Riding Hood in its original form, a French version that predated the cleaned-up ways of telling the tale I’d already encountered, and the bleak sexuality of the story came through: when she encounters the wolf in her grandmother’s bed, he eats and drinks her grandmother with her, then tells her to take off all her clothes and throw them on the fire - she wouldn’t be needing them any more, - and, finally, she joins him in the bed naked. And then, with no more ado, he eats her.
Considering what this guy is capable of , the large sum of money probably involved medical help for physical harm for this woman. Or even worse, harm being done to her children.
I went through similar trauma when I was 19-25. A man 30 years older than me swooped in and took over my life, body, and labor.
And his peers often gaslit me about how lucky I was, too!
Thankfully he self deleted after a while. I felt lien I’d been let out of prison when I heard that! I still have nightmares that he’s alive though. 😢
I feel so sorry for you… you didn’t deserve that. I’m so glad you’re free of him, I can’t imagine going through that.
❤
How horrible. This man is in he'll now, don't worry. I know it can be hard (I have cptsd), but you are very strong for rebuilding your life after that.
Did ya'll see that extra episode of Sandman... where the guy has possession of the Muse.....!? I used to LOVE him, until I saw that episode. And suddenly, I knew that bad man WAS HIM. I knew it like I've never known anything.... with SUCH certainty. These survivors coming forward is just the evidence I needed to confirm what that episode so clearly showed me.
Did ANYONE else see that one and get a strange feeling??
I haven’t seen the episode but I read the comic as a preteen. I always thought that Neil saw himself as the sandman character in that story that saves the Greek god that was captured as a muse. But now I’m reexamining his stories and seeing him as the villain in the stories. Also the sandman character seems to punish his ex lovers which we can see the author Neil doing in real life. I’m disgusted with him he was like the goth Mr. Rogers.
@@Queenskrossing Yeah, this one really got to me. 💔❤
Yes. If you search interview shorts on yt to make it even creepier, there is one where he answers the exact same way as the professor about where he gets his ideas from. He says the exact. same. line. as himself. I don't think I can link it but you can probably find it quickly. I had this creepy feeling too he was going to have a downfall when I saw that. edit: oh hey, I found it. search for Neil Gaiman where do you get your ideas from on here. He's on a stage with someone else. He says the quote from the Calliope episode as himself about three quarters of the way through.
Not the second lady's fault at all, cops don't do anything.
All I wanna say to Niel as a former fan: Terry would've disowned you.
@@almamater489 and so would Charles from “Dead Boy Detectives.” It really screams hiding in plain sight.
This is very true
This is 100% true. Thank God he's not around to see this.
I was just thinking about this.
I hope that is true. Now? I wouldn't be surprised if Terry knew.
I've not lived a short nor secluded life. I've lived in multiple different states (US) and worked in many different work environments. My life experience is not miniscule. Yet, still, I've not been given a reason to believe it's not all men. Even the ones who think they're the "good" ones are cruel in their own way.
Although, thanks to social media these days, I have seen (very) few examples of men who are trying to do better. (Shout out to Professor Chesco)
33:37 this is a really great point! How come he has multiple allegations but these women have each only accused him? 🔎
I just now watched this part 2. It's the same lady I was talking about in a comment I left on part 1 but your account of it is a lot more accurate. But it was this story that got me off the fence because I didn't know what to think about it at first. This isn't kink shaming. He's got a problem
I always wondered why in the Sandman the character that is an author is a raping villain. I just thought it was so strange that he wouldn’t add his own personality as the author….Oh God, Oh God. Right in front of our faces.
The Author kidnaps a Muse and locks her in a bedroom. Anytime he has writer’s block he rapes the Muse and then the block is gone and he will write a bestseller.
I am the big Neil Gaiman fan. My childhood best friend and cousin gave me The Sandman series the Christmas before he passed away. I later would occasionally buy Neil Gaiman’s work and feel closer to my cousin. This is so hellishly disappointing.
'Asking for consent isn't sexy' is the greatest self-own ever. If you can't make consent sexy, that's a skill issue.
I'm so glad these women came forward
this is so fucked up
Sir, if the woman says it wasn’t consensual, it wasn’t consensual.
That's weird, I thought I was subbed to your channel (I found you through Burb) but then just checked and was unsubbed. I was wondering why I hadn't seen anything from you in a bit. (Re-subbed)
I'm a lifelong comic fan and an LGBTQ woman, so I appreciate you covering this topic. There's still a lot of misogyny in the comic world, unfortunately. And a lot of predators as well.
I've always hated Neil Gaiman for absolutely no reason. Turns out I have an amazing radar for human character.
Your videos are sone of the most important content being produced today. I share them with everyone I know. Thank you so much for caring, for educating, for thinking and creating. You're amazing and what you do matters immensely.
Thank you for covering this, and in such a compassionate and reasonable way
I’m kind of grossed out by Palmer too
I was a huge fan for decades. Just ripped everything of his off my shelves. Not sure what to do with it now. I don’t feel good about trying to sell it or even give it away.
Mulch, maybe?
Amanda Palmer could speak up now
She's not gonna.
@@coyotegaxiola4281 Because she is also culpable.
I mean she's not responsible for his choices and might not have even known about any of this.
@@jazmineraymond7495 He settled with a victim for a quarter million. She's not gonna know about that as his wife???
@@DeaDiabola No, but his ex-wife wouldn't necessarily know that. Also he's rich and can lie.
Please make a playlist for this series. Thank you-🫶
The definition of sexual predators sounds a lot like capitalist employers - especially retail corporations.
oooh this is such a good observation!! are we ready for this conversation??? 🤨😏
@yv_edit I've been pushing it for years. Lol. If you like reading critiques of market ideology, I always recommend Serena Olsaretti, Jessica Whyte, Karl William Kapp, and Karl Polanyi. Cheers
I loooove your tiktok! Glad ive now found you on UA-cam!
The NDA is less of a red flag than a lot of people think. It's actually pretty standard for any employee of a celebrity to be required to sign an NDA, especially if there is an incident, even a relatively innocuous one which this all falls far outside the lines of being. While we should always believe someone who says that they have been abused, and while false claims of abuse are rare, there is a greater incentive with celebrities both monetarilyy and in regards to press and attention for false allegations. Both of these things are true, and a lot of people have been trying to use these truths to normalise the response (the documented one in private and the lack of a public) of Gaiman, yet that "rationale" falls flat when the pattern of behaviour really conveys guilt. What I think most telling is that Gaiman's lawyer also represented Danny Masterson. Masterson is a Scientologist whose friends and colleagues came to his defense. Gaiman either was or still is a Scientologist, though he has distanced himself from Scientology in the public eye. His own father, David Gaiman, was one of the most highly influential and important Scientologists in the UK and also had allegations of sexually abusive behaviour. David Gaiman also rented out his property to Scientologists from other countries and famously one of them committed suicide after which Gaiman was involved in a cover-up on behalf of Scientology. Neil used this as a starting inspiration for one of his books ("The Ocean at the End of the Lane").
Gaiman is just like Joss Whedon. They claim to be for women but they give off creepy vibes and thei actions are much worse
25:35 what is sad, in such situations we are choosing between stupid unwanted sx(grape basically) and the fact that you should resist a man who is likely to be offended by rejection and want to cause harm to you.
I remember two situations in my life where i didnt fight back enough and i dont know if it was wrong, but i think at that moment it was the best decision. In case those men(both of them i knew before, they were not strangers) became violent, i would have no chance.
Its hard to remember that "its ALL men" when its about the person you trust before.
Yessss! 👏👏👏
I certainly can’t wait to watch the remastered 15 year anniversary of Coraline in theaters this month.
Let's discuss how Amanda Palmer divorced Gaiman without a single PEEP about any of his extra marital activities.
She is an artist of great range and reach, and connected to the esoteric and Goddess communities through her associates.
Where is Palmer? Is she under an NDA as well?
Sophie Strand, did you know that your good friend Amanda Palmer was married to a predator while you were writing about spirituality?
Did your well connected dad, Clark Strand, the former editor of Tricycle Buddhist magazine, know?
Did your mom, the Goddess teacher Perdita Finn, know?
Y'all all live in the nicer parts of New York State... You're in publishing, and you're all well off.
I smell something rancid.
I'm late , but I remember reading an article about his wife where it was mentioned that they had open marriage. I don't care what anyone says, that's always a red flag for me
As a guy these are informative. It makes me want to try even harder to prove we’re not all pieces of dirt. There definitely needs to be a shift in ethics. Just an all around overhaul.
I absolutely love his books and thought he was a good guy. I did side eye him for marrying Amanda, but this is beyond awful.
This guy is a true scorpio, and I wonder what Tori Amos thinks of all that.
🔥✌🏼
🎯🎯🎯
I remember he always gave me the creeps but sure enough I ignored the spooky vibe because i thought that its because of the association my mind makes between him and his dark creations. Y i k e s
Good video, good advice.
Always thought Gaiman was creepy.
Classic weirdo behavior
As a longtime NG fan, but also a SA victim, I'm just gutted and really, really hope these allegations are somehow not true. But my gut tells me otherwise. Also, if Amanda Palmer knew about these (and maybe that's why they ultimately seperated), then she's culpable...just like Alice Munro was with her husband.
I hate all of this. So much.
I would like to hear Amanda’s story of them. From meeting to now. Kinda seems to bring maybe more context to some of her songs?
As a survivor of multiple sex abuses, not reporting *is* enabling. Trauma is awful, but not disclosing abuse enables abuse to continue and spread.
Go back and tell that to me at 3. Tell it to me again at 7, when I did Tell and was put on drugs and ignored. Tell me again at 12. At 16. At 19 when I reported and he was found guilty/responsible but only got a 6 month suspension and stalked me for 3 years. All the assaults were different people, including my parents. You really didn't think your comment through. Before you shame victims and call them enablers fir not reporting, consider the system DISABLES them from reporting. I didn't enable my pedo step grandad, I didn't know what he was doing was wrong. I didn't enable the priest at my Catholic elementary school, I knew that no one would believe me. I didn't enable my mom and dad, I knew they'd kill me if I threatened their reputation; after all if you won't stop at sexually abusing your child, you won't stop at murder. Just look at your life and your choices and come correct the next time you speak on survivor's issues. Wack.
It's so sad to me that men cant do good for women without it being seen as manipulative.
👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
This video is as close to perfect as it gets. I've seen some pushback in the comments, though, and I feel compelled to comment, especially to many of the women.
I've followed fantasy and science fiction since the 1960s. Every literate and literary heterosexual man knew *exactly* what Gaiman's character was after reading at least two of his works. As Cormac McCarthy says, it's all on the page.
Do not claim or even think for a nanosecond that we didn't try to warn you. When we had any influence at all and were not overruled, we banned Gaiman from meetings for this reason. We were usually overruled, by women, until they experienced his behavior in person.
When we said anything, we were told we were the misogynists. We were told that we were _mansplaining._ We were told Gaiman was a feminist who respects women. We were reminded of his tousle-haired boyish smile and toothless grin. *We were the ones* punished and sometimes excluded ourselves, falsely accused and summarily excluded, which reduced our ability to try to warn anybody.
And there was clear precedent. Women loved Harlan Ellison. He was such a performative feminist that when he was invited to a convention in a state that had not yet ratified the ERA, he drove an RV with his own food and fuel so he wouldn't contribute to the state's economy. *Then he grabbed at Connie Willis' tit onstage.* If you don't remember the ERA as a current event or even at all, it just shows how long this pattern has been obvious, at least to us _mansplainers_ who aren't listened to. I'm old.
Ellison even grossly insulted a woman I knew. It was his 50th birthday, and someone had printed T-shirts that said "50 short years with Harlan Ellison." This woman I knew asked him what he though of the T-shirts. He said he thought they were cool. She bought and wore one to honor him. Then Ellison addressed the conference in a famous speech, expressing outrage at the idea that the T-shirts mocked his height. She fled from the assembly crying.
Nothing about this behavior is particularly male. Women do it, too. There are quite a few _wokery wokety wokester_ (I refuse to say _woke,_ because they are clearly anti-woke if you know how to use English) women who are prominent these days, especially in the game industry, which overlaps significantly with SF and fantasy. Also look up Marion Zimmer Bradley, who was something of a feminist heroine back in the Andrea Dworkin days.
There is only one difference: the polarity. Men and women are inherently equal except for which way they go. Other women are able to detect when women do it from megaparsecs away and are doubtless appalled when men flock to them like flies to fœcal matter, as we are when women flock to to the likes of Gaiman and are just totally crushed, crushed I tell you, when he turns out to be exactly what we _mansplained_ all along. *You never think the leopards will eat your face, too.*
Also, keep an eye on David Tennant. Five years from now, at most.
How do you feel about George R. R. Martin? He really bothers me because going into so much description about SA, including children, in the Game of Thrones books, is a choice. I'm tired of the "historically accurate" excuse. He had to imagine those scenes over and over again to create them. It's something that takes a lot of planning and imagining before the writing. Both him and Stephen King, I have a hard time understanding how people don't see they're shielding their desires to harm others under the auspices of "art."
@@C12341 I'm afraid I've never had the inclination to read his stuff, and what you say about him makes me want to keep it that way.
Lol these women think Neil is vulnerable now so they making any conversation into a pass. It was consensual at the time but now they want money and fame so they will change the facts.
You sound as if you were there when all of that was actually happening. How do you know what exactly went on between him and those women?
@@lizvtaz6 I was there, I've seen women clown themselves around Neil and then pretend they didn't. Women lie. Womens' words are inherently untrustworthy.
I noticed a small contradiction. If you say that what Gaiman did is not normal (and I agree), you're implicitly admitting that most men would not do that.
So if most men would not do that it's also true that most men would not defend him. The people who do are a small minotity (and it's not even a matter of political affiliation).
whats fhe contradiction?
different ilk ng
"Do whatever you want in the bedroom... Except this list of things the "movement" deems condemnable." Feminists are funny.
the "do whatever you want in the bedroom" thing means do whatever as long as both parties agreed to it
Eh... And what do you suggest? How would you feel if someone would force themselves onto you and then put their tongue into your mouth while you are trying to break free?
I’m sorry but inferring guilt because of an NDA is as stupid as assuming somebody asking for a lawyer when they are being interrogated is an admission of guilt. It’s just as likely that Gaiman is telling the truth and paid this lady off with an NDA to avoid further trouble from her. Has her ex-husband spoken about why he left the situation? Why would she stay there for, what, some six years, especially AFTER her husband left, if she was so traumatised by what was going on, if there was no benefit to her or if she wasn’t willingly taking part? I’m not saying that any of this indicates Gaiman’s innocence, just pointing out that asserting things like this would be as naive a conclusion to make about the abuse being fiction as assuming that the NDA verifies this woman’s account as unimpeachably the truth! And again, if Gaiman has hired a lawyer experienced with these kinds of cases all that means is that he wants competency from a legal expert experienced in this area. After the Ed Piskor situation, which was a horrible tragedy and killed a man that had done NOTHING wrong, I think it’s VERY important to be cautious about making assumptions on social media and calling people predators when in fact none of us have ANY idea what transpired, what the dynamic was, and so on. The ‘believe all women’ movement ignores a very simple fact: women are just as capable of men of doing shitty things to the opposite sex, including forms of administrative and financial abuse, women are just as capable of lying or exaggerating to further their interests or for financial gain, women can and do abuse the system at least as often as men do!
Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, as the old saying goes. And again, to be VERY clear, I am not saying there’s no substance to these allegations, what I AM saying is that nobody can ascertain the truth of what took place without due process, and that internet mobs are far too quick to assume they can and do, and that that risks destroying lives before all the facts are known!
But he Gaiman
Who hurt you, woman?