The Automatic Bus Transfer switch episode that everyone asked for
Вставка
- Опубліковано 10 вер 2024
- Well, maybe everyone.
Maybe some people.
Maybe a few people.
You know what, never mind.
Regardless, ABTs serve an important role on your quasi-modern warships, and amusing things happen when they fail.
Public Discord access is now available: / discord
Join this channel to get access to perks, including a better Discord experience:
/ @sacredcowshipyards
Utreon: utreon.com/c/s...
Patreon: / sacredcowshipyards
(Utreon and Patreon also allow access to our Discord, but we're trying to move away from the latter.)
Odysee backup: odysee.com/$/i...
Rumble backup: rumble.com/c/S...
Facebook: / sacredcowshipyards
Twitter: / scshipyards
Reddit: / sacredcowshipyards
If you'd like to sponsor an episode, please email us at youradhere(at)sacredcowshipyards(dot)com.
US Navy "200+ Years of Tradition not screwed up by Progress" - Engineman CPO Ret
Do you like horror stories? Let me tell you the tale of the Mk 14 torpedo...
One origin of the $1000 screwdriver meme was the SR-71 program. Soon after they began messing with titanium panels they discovered to their horror that any titanium screws, nuts, bolts etc that standard chromium covered tools contacted quickly corroded. The only solution was a very limited run of one off tools all covered in cadmium iirc. The extremely small run sufficient to support the construction and maintenance of the Blackbird fleet meant the per unit cost was orders of magnitude higher without the usual millions produced to amortize costs over literally making these tools cost thousands each.
There’s a lot more to that story not involving the Blackbird.
Military equipment and tools frequently encounter environments that consumer grade tools aren’t designed to cope with, like liquid condensed hate. They also have to meet hardness and toughness specs that consumer grade tools don’t, like hammers that will not chip no matter how you abuse them. Those little chips can do incredible amounts of damage if they get into just the right place, and despite great effort being expended to make that impossible, well, it’s not worth risking a warship or bomber or fighter plane or whatever not to mention the crew.
So for instance when I was an AGE mechanic in the USAF I had a toolbox full of sockets and stuff that could be bought at a hardware store for about $150 1970 dollars, the consumer grade tools just wouldn’t have been good enough. That’s why my toolbox with tools had a replacement cost of over twelve hundred of those 1970 dollars.
Likewise, the "$900 toilet seat". They needed a toilet seat for a small fleet of aircraft (IIRC B-52) that was a nonstandard size (beause they had to shoehorn it into available space), meaning that they could use any existing mold; the seat had to neither break nor stick to human flesh at some ridiculously low temperature (below freezing); had to be non-conductive; had to be non-flammable at "normal fire" temperatures, and had to not outgas hazardous chemicals or smoke even when burning. And they only needed a few hundred of these seats (even including spares).
Note that a single production mold can cost up to $100,000, *and they had to design the seat both mechanically and in terms of material.
If they needed, say, 10,000 of these seats, they'd probably have cost $30 or less.
Strategically Transfer Engrams to an Alternate Location.
after the torpedo
I have a feeling calling anything a "Mark 14" is a kind of "stepping on the mirror moment".
I don't believe you that there's gas turbines in those boxes i think it's where the marines on treadmills are kept, which really move the ship.
SHHHH! they're not supposed to know about that.
Obviously not... Otherwise we'd have footage of crayons being shoveled into a trapdoor by now.
Gotta love "Smoke smoke smoke. White smoke in #1 MMR(boiler #1)" 0200, 6 hours before INSURV inspection. Gotta love sailors in a controlled panic. I was the Secondary turned Primary Investigator(Primary got time off for his kid's birthday party). Turned out to be an oil line break over a hot manifold and there was a lot of white smoke, 5' visibility. I sent a runner to the Damage Locker with a note, got MM2 and he got the oil shut off. Desmoke, clean up oil. And we passed inspection with flying colors. Fun time in the middle of the night.
Standing duty on a CVN doing RCOH in Newport News, 2130 hours, Half the Kahkis that are supposed to be there have left and a bunch of pallets the shipyard workers have left piled up on the fantail aft of jet engine shop go up in after an unspecified dipshit uses it as an extra smoke deck. Watch calls it away and somehow my 3rd class SK (at the time) behind is the senior most person on the DC party to show up. Spend the next 4 hours getting the thing under control (because of course shipyard fire service was off for the night), send in the remnants of duty section to rake and brake as we suck down some water....just in time for the Captain to start walking over to ask for a report because the Kahkis are missing and the Admiral is making an inspection in 3 and half hours time. Somehow I managed to survive the ass chewings that came from that.
All hail the Princes of Darkness - otherwise know as Lucas Electrical.
Way back in 1978, in Naval Nuclear Power School, I knew a gent that owned a Triumph TR-7 - otherwise known as the Cheese Wedge - even he referred to Lucas by that term, given all the electrical problems he had with that car.
You need a bottle of Lucas wiring harness smoke (part number 530433). Pretty much always helps with otherwise fine examples of British mass production... (while you're at it, change to Smiths gauges - guaranteed to work - just long enough until the guarantee runs out).
- Ugh nevermind, spotted the bottle getting shown. Should have seen the image on the screen not just listened to this in the background...
Ya, I had a couple of TR3s. I know what you're saying.
Lucas Electrics - "Because a gentleman doesn't motor about after dark anyway."
Why, when England ruled the waves, can her cars not make it through a puddle?
But Dockmaster! Redundant electrical systems win battles, redundant spare-parts delivery systems win wars! 🤣
How can ships have so much redundancy but the support structure has so little? Simple, ships are meant to go to war, bureaucrats are not.
Right up until you need conscripts...
Easy.....it costs money to maintain support infrastructure, it costs money and effort to maintain stockpiles well, and both require foresight and a willingness to pay for them.
Imagine opening that crate and looking at what's inside. Jaw and crowbar dropping in unison, eyes staring wide in disbelief. ... So what do you write back to the sender in that case?: "Ha ha nice prank. Now send the real thing and better be fast."?
Personally I’m wondering why nobody noticed that the crate was three-ish tons heavier than it should have been.
@@markfergerson2145 US military shipping is wild. A common way they choose the delivery company is the "Lowest price technically acceptable source selection process." There's a non-zero chance the shipper caused the damage, and because delivery was accepted they still got paid!
I have seen poorly wrapped pallets be delivered by duallys (Pickup trucks with 4 rear wheels) towing a 5th wheel flatbed trailer. One of those contained a computer. Though I don't think any of us actually ever tried to turn it on. Especially since it had spent a decent amount of time outside.
So I've some professional experience with the land based version of this, which we call the Automatic Transfer Switch on the diagrams, and it works in the same way, so that if the main power (the utility mains) goes down for whatever reason, the on-site generator can power on. But we also include an extra UPS type battery, good for at least a few hours, in the control panel itself. Still, knowing you're only one more failure away from a bad situation does not lead to good sleep.
Also, the projects to design replacement systems for existing facilities are SUCH a pain.
It is _possible_ to make a Detroit Diesel that doesn't leak. It isn't worth it. It involves basically gluing every component on, which makes it _extremely_ difficult to disassemble for maintenance. (I've worked on the damn things.)
"If it ain't got oil under it, it ain't got oil in it?"
@@Tomyironmane Nah, that's Harley Davidson's of a certain age.
@@TomyironmaneThat's especially true of helicopters. I once had an opportunity to jump a civilian owned Huey, after years of experience on Army Hueys and Blackhawks.
Beautiful aircraft, nice white paint job, very clean and pristine. As I approached the bird I started to have a panic attack, convinced this bird was *going* to crash. I finally figured out what was bothering me - no oil puddles, no 100mph tape anywhere. I was convinced this bird was dead out of hydraulic and transmission fluids. 😂
Anyone who has served in any branch of the armed services will have horror stories of A) Equipment going down with out supply support, and B) Epic tales of battles with supply to get what you need in order to do your damned job. Supply wins a depressing amount of the time.
SeaQuest DSV had an episode about this once.
Oh, no worries! The bureaucracy is 1000% redundant...
It's funny and oddly gratifying to hear someone say what I always get blank confused faces at when I bring it up at work, a system only works well on the functional end if the logistics system behind it is up to the task.
Its down right frightening how so many people in control of billions of dollars have no idea how things actually get done.
16v-149 TI decodes to 16 cylinders in a Vee configuration with a displacement of 149 cubic inches per cylinder (2.44 liters), Turbocharged and intercooled. Also its supposed to leak oil, that's how you know it has oil in it.
Ah the good old 2stroke Detroit Diesel oil leakers. If it dont leak oil its broken!
Just like their little cousin, the GM small block. If it doesn't leak oil, it needs some added.
Ah, the Oliver Hazard Perry class. My five year prison term before I retired.
I know a guy who explained to our group why there was a 1000 dollar hammer. They were made for ordinance branch. So they had to be non-sparking, non-maring and non-conductive. Apparently a few guys got killed by normal hammers causing a spark or conducting current and setting off some explosives. However after the political stink about costs, they stopped by them. Army figured a few explosions and loss of personal every now and then was acceptable vs the scrutiny of congress.
An open smoke box event is always a good time to people watch and take notes for when promotions are considered. Aside from that, they completely suck.
It is not stealing...it is tactically liberating
Boeing forgot about redundancy
They'd interpret that as more doors, instead of more locking mechanisms.
And this is why you always have a flashlight on you
Given how poorly your ocular globes handle darkness, it's a good plan.
@@SacredCowShipyardsI know a thing or two, because I've seen a thing or two
@@JasonGillmanJr Given the context I would think it is more of you have *not* seen some things.
@@BuilderB08Well played, Sir
If I may tell a fun story involving an OHP FFG (tbh, don't know if it's the same one!): while being a teenager in 1980s, but allready studying naval and historical affairs, one day an FFG-7 stopped in Lisboa. Good will tour? Maintenance resuply? Dunno. But, while the ship was not open to the public, the dock certainly was, so anyone could walk to the water's edge to look at the ship, just making sure you stay away from the big yanks guarding the gangway. While admiring the ship, a Soviet cruise ship is sailing down the Tejo river (yes, the river is that wide, look it up). When it started passing the dock where the frigate was it blew it's biga$$ horn. I remember thinking "wow that was funy & loud. Wonder if the US captain will blow his horn back?"
Well... just as I was thinking this, the frigate's missile launcher _snaps_ into the vertical, the magazine door opens and out comes an SM-1! I barelly have time to register this before the launcher snaps back into the horizontal, with the SM-1 loaded and _aims at the cruise ship and starts tracking_ ! My jaw dropped at this. Only then did I noticed multicoloured painted bands on the SM-1 and realized it had to be a training round. The launcher tracked the cruise ship for severall mns, untill it moved out of it's direct LOS, then snaped back to the vertical and down the SM-1 went, back to the magazine. My father was with me and he thought it was funy, but all I could think was "holy sh$t!!!!!!!!!" I can only imagine the reaction of any soviet officers watching this whole affair....
Wonderful story. That's some kinetic diplomacy right there.
Are you certain it's wise to borrow our sailor memories? You may wake up hungover in bed next to the Captain's Daughter early in the morning!
Seems like it'd be more awkward for her.
Oh damn. I have been running out of magic smoke lately. Thanks for reminding me.
I'll pick some up next time I swing by.
COST PLUS is how things end up so damned expensive... JUST MAKE THE CONTRACTORS BID THE JOBS --- NEVER ALLOW COST PLUS... it encourages vendors to inflate costs.
This is your note to make a video on gas turbine propulsion.
Bureaucracy is a single point failure system.
Why do we sailors keep swinging by?
Well... what happens on Deck 69 will STAY on Deck 69.
Giggety.
Big Navy Logic at it's finest: try to save a few thousand dollars by holding up the combat operation of a multi-million dollar warship and millions of dollars worth of man-hours of the crew. Fail. Repeat.
I suspect one of the comments from a cheap officer is:
"How many Car batteries do you have and can you hook them up?"
Ship is going into a major refit. Certain piece of equipment is being installed in a new compartment, and the system requires filtered dry air. The GSO (General Spec for Overhaul) requires a Dry Air Panel (gauges and what-not) be installed inside the compartment, immesiately upstream fromnthe gear the air lines are servicing. Fine, this is a "standard" part, albeit a "built to order" part rather than an off rhe shelf part.
Problem... as the refit period approaches, the design yard (different from the yard doing the work - NAVSEA is doing the planning engineering, a separate government yard is doing the design work - the detailed rip out & installation drawings and work package planning, and a civilian yard is doing the actual work as they ahve the drydock that can do the work) realizes they can't reuse one of the existing air panels because theyve already planned to reuse all the avilable air panels and this is a new one. So they figure, "Well, let's make aure we order one constructed."
Problem Part 2... the lead time to get a new dry air panel constructed by the authorized manufacturer is a "long lead time" part, and the delivery date simply *will not meet refit schedule* . Refit period cannotnbe deferred, installation cannot be deferred to a later part of the refit period the manufacturer *could* supply it in. (And, no, that isnt Navy OCD - like Tetris, the order in which you do the work matters. 😉 )
So, the planning yard had to request the engineering team and ship design manager (SDM) at NAVSEA ask the system program manager if it would be OK if the planning yard buiot the air panel *themselves*, and then the NAVSEA team & SDM approve the "departure from spec" in having the government yard make the dry air panel rather than the contractor who was certified to build and test them (but who couldn't do so within the required time period).
The Detroit's naming scheme makes sense for us silly USA-ans that like our "freedom units"😂
Have we ever asked any other City besides Detroit to submit a proposal for a diesel engine design?
13 minutes of preamble before the story starts. This is the content I subscribed for.
It's what we do.
I do like the swing arm system, especially the Btitish Sea Dart, as it allows the missile system to be armoured better than VLS and iff you have enough missiles, it becomes more efficient, space wise, than a VLS, though the higher rate of fire and reliability of the VLS is what got swing arm systems replaced. Also, as the Argie's found out the hard way, a swing arm system can be direct fired with the guidance system turned off.
Sea Slug if I recall?
@@ptonpc Nope, that was the predacessor, ironically, despite being an anti-aircraft missile the Sea Slug saw signiffigiantly more success as a surface to surface missile, having failed to knock down any aircaft the couple of times it was used, Sea Slugs destroyed a number of parked helicopters and a radar instilation at Port Stanley Airport.
There's also the "cook-off" aspect that the VLS effectively solves.
@@SacredCowShipyards Fair, it becomes the balance of better armour to resist hits or better ability to survive penetrating hits, which, with modern ship design, less armour but more survivability when heavily damaged is the preferred option. I'm just an old armour lover that also loves the idea of blind-firing an inertial guidance only missile into something.
And that's what you call an 'Ooops'.
Some Humons might apreciate the boredom of not having a Warp Core breach every second week😂
But that's boring.
At least it wasn't digital, if it was it would have broken far more spectacularly and with lot's of glass shards. Perhaps some people would have also lost their eyes. But that would likely make it even more of a comedy than it already was.
Ah yes, 2 stroke Detroit Diesels. Reasonably reliable, but love to mark their territory with beyond copious amounts of the black stuff, and not the most power dense compared to a newer but still pre-emissions diesel.
Fascinating story, thanks to the brave swo who donated this particular engram to scs. I wonder how closely they are associated with scs‘s ai?
"Good training." 😂
Have they tried rerouting the EPS conduits through the phase inducer and back again?
Great episode, enjoyed the Fig (without G), Fi, I guess, stories. The failed switch story was particularly interesting. It got better with the crate of water and formerly functional part. Nice pic of ?Proteus? and nested subs in mothballs.
Oooph a repair turn around time of months? Navel Supply really dun screwed up there
Honestly, I don't think I could work for an organization with such incompetence. If I were in the same position as that poor technician, I'd probably just want to send either the transfer box, or even the entire ship adrift on a one-way course to the Bermuda Triangle, or for the nearest scrap yards.
One of my pet peeves is having to work with equipment that is insufficient at doing its job. Like, could you please at least test the part to make sure it's still working properly before bothering to ship the damned thing? That, or just manufacture a new part, and just save us all time, money, and trouble!
Two of these fine vessels still ply their trade, just under a Polish banner. ORP Tadeusz Kościuszko and ORP Kazimierz Pułaski.
Both names that should be familiar to any Dockmaster well versed in Earth's history!
I believe a number of them are still bobbing around, pissing off Davey Jones all the while.
I wonder would this also apply to Turbo-electric Drive type of engines?
You'ed think the navy would be able to buy some new relays for their ABT.
The Texas is back in the water!
You don’t need to make a video about it, but you might get a kick out of reading up on the Klingon L-13 Battleship, dubbed the “Dangerous Fat Man”
Dock Master, I have an idea for a video for you. If you were going to start a navy, what surface ship would you start out with and why??
No submarines please. That’s an easy answer. 🙂
If the class in service needs one made, why not make 3? Having 2 on the shelf might be worth it for the future life of the class of ship.
It didn't stay in service very long after that.
Oh, great dockmaster, if you were to design a starship, what would it look like?
There's an obvious answer.
You know i think the antarctic station, the one with the ice telescope has a similar generator layout. Kind of wounder why. But navy does as navy does. Why change something that works?
Or ForeverFrackingGone
Beautiful 14 minute preamble!
Glad you like it!
Mine: FFG-9 Wadsworth(94-98) as a EN...
You know why I'm here.
Lamborghini-Urus
Ahhhhhh. Memories..
But probably not good ones.
@@SacredCowShipyards Heh. Actually, some of the very best. FFGs were fun to drive and we had some great COs and crews.
I hear that future ships might use rotating detonation engines. I wonder if that will make things easier or more difficult.
Yes. Yes they definitely will.
Almost certainly more difficult.
Wait a second... this isn't the 230 Bus to Braintree...
Whoopsies.
i work on merchant ships
Thanks.
some call backs to the first SCS video here.
If only I'd bothered to keep that charade up longer.
shit that is pretty compare to merchant ship
👍
Could they have jurry rigged something together if it was a war is on all hands on deck sitation? Sure Navy electricians are smart cookies. Would it scare every person who has a basic understanding of health and safty? Yep. Would it hold? Maybe depends on how much time they had to jurry rig it ^^
Or it could short out the entire ship.
USS South Dakota says hi.
The actual repair took about two days, with full shore support, so...
@@SacredCowShipyards so really not a simple repair.
If they have multiple ATBs on board.... why not swap with an less essential one!?
Edit.
I am sure they could have rigged some knife switches as well and made it 100% manual.
The actual swap-out-and-replace took around three days, and required running casualty power cables through lots of hatches and doors that would otherwise be sealed, so CCS could remain powered. And that was with shore support.
own a bar
detoirt are good . esrer than cats
Wait....did i hear that correctly, why are you flushing your toilets with fresh water on an ocean going vessel at all?
Seems like a waste.
Salt water doesn't like pipes.
P:)
Third.
fourth
First
Second