I bought my Sportster 25 years ago and I have 400,000 miles on my bike.I have gotten my moneys worth of it and it has proven worth it. My bikes are part of who I am and I think of them as more than just a vehicle I am attached to them and have feelings for them.
No matter how much you lose when you split up with a bike it's a pittance compared to what you lose when you split up with a woman....I talk from experience....
Royal Enfield bikes generally attract a more mature buyer. Such people often have more disposable cash, and can afford to indulge in passing fancies without worrying too much about the financial implications. They may have been away from motorcycling for 20 or 30 years, want to relive their youth, are reminded that biking is often uncomfortable and roads are busier than they remember, and dispose of the bike before it's even run in. Those machines will only sell if they are discounted further than the already discounted pool of new bikes, and machines with 5k on the clock will be lower still. I'm continually amazed how quickly people flip their machines, based on little more than the grass-is-greener and rampant consumerism. the answer is to buy for keeps.
In 50 years of riding motorcycles, its cost me a fortune in depreciation on bikes. Especially in the last 25 years where i've almost always bought new. But sometimes i dont do bad on a trade in at all. I just traded in my Yam XSR900 on a new bike and got £5.5K trade in price for it. Considering i bought it new 6.5 years ago at £7.2K its not bad depreciation at all. But whether the depreciation is good or bad, the pleasure motorcycles give me is always money well spent.
It doesn’t matter if we are talking about motorcycles, cars, golf clubs, or wives. Always thinking the new one will be better than the one you have is expensive. So deal with it, or keep what you have and go ride! :)
I am a big believer in keeping a bike a long time. Then depreciation is less of an issue. And, to be honest, I find buying and selling a pain. Good video, Stuart. Nick J
My experience with my BMW here in my area is the dealership denied taking my bike for service, saying anything older than 10 years they would only do tires and oil change. Not even final drive fluids, grease driveline spline coupling, or change out brake fluid and clutch fluid. That left me me with more than a bad taste, not just for ever doing future business with that corporate hack of a dealership, but with BMW in general. That was in Austin, TX. I moved to Tennessee....guess what? Same thing here!! "Your bike is too old (14 years R1200RT)." So unless you are fully wrench capable, you better seek good service contacts before buying older bikes, regardless of pricing.
Fully agree why chop and change all the time if it's running ok etc why bother o just changed the oil and filter on my Honda 300 last week so proud of myself and I'm doing the air filter next week ,at some point I'll do the brake pads too quite a sense of satisfaction doing your own servicing etc
I always work on the principal, if I only paid £4279, as in the case of my 350 classic, then the most I can lose is £4279, that's why I refuse to pay the ludicrous prices the main stream manufacturers charge for their products, especially now that RE are making the kind of bikes I like and to the standard of the main stream in quality terms.
Thanks for posting, this is a hot topic at the moment. OK, A simple comment to explain about money. "Old Money" people, like the British Royal Family for example, keep their vehicles for 30 years or more. Why? Because they know about depreciation and value. It's in the British general population culture, to change your vehicle every 1.5 to 3 years. This is how banks / finance houses get rich and everyone else stays poor. The life cycle of a vehicle is at it's most polluting at the beginning of it's life due to the manufacturing and distribution process too. A modern motorcycle, with proper maintenance will run for 100,000 miles and still give good service in all that time. If there wasn't the obsession with riding a new motorcycle on a regular basis, EVERYONE except the banks / finance houses would be a lot better off financially. 🤔
I keep All of my bikes for decades.I never trade my bikes in. My bikes are transportation not a toy.I buy used so I don't take a hit in depreciation. I am not interested in modern bikes. My bikes have a forever home like my rescue dogs.
Personally I've never fallen into the must have latest model crowd. My current an only bike is a 09 650 v-strom coming up 78.000 mls. That's value in my book. 👍
Great videos mate ! Just got a 650 inter Baker . Earlier it was £6800, then £6000 on the road a few months later. After dealer plated it for a demo bike it was £5500.. Snapped his hand off. Loving it.
Prices are dropping in some areas and rising exponentialy in others like vintage machines, it also has a lot to do with technology and servicing costs, it has got so expensive to service some of the ultra modern factory type superbikes that you could purchase a good commuter for the same money.
Thats one of the reasons ive gone back to my roots, and started buying/restoring and riding 80s bikes, i can work on them myself, and thats almost as enjoyable as riding them to me. Trouble is, they have started to attract the attention of either the wealthy "collector" or the hipster crowd, who want the cafe racer them all. So prices are rising, fast.🤣
The best option if money is key is to buy well secondhand and then keep it for ever ! Totally agree that for most motorbikes are toys, a luxury even. I’m coming up to my sixtieth birthday and times have changed, when I was young many, many people bought motorbikes as a means of cheap transport, I remember buying an MZ125, what a bike that was, lol. 👏😀👍🏍
@@Shadrach666 I should perhaps mention before the MZ were countless other bikes, obviously starting with mopeds, Yamaha FS-ie, Suzuki AP50, etc, we used to ride down to the coast at weekends on our 50’s loaded up with camping gear, beaches, beer and bikes were our weekends for most of my younger years, those were the days. Not riding bikes after beer of course! Since those days I’ve lost count of the different bikes I’ve owned, most recently 3x BMW GS, all bought new and covered over 50,000 miles on all of them, then. BMW R1200r, a very underrated and capable bike. Once bikes are in the blood, it’s hard to give them up! 😀👍
Here in California there’s very few used Royal Enfields and the ones I find I would probably be better off buying new even after tax, license and fees. This is probably because they haven’t been very popular here until recently and they’re still not well known or competing well with the big Japanese or European manufacturers. Americans are also very suspicious of inexpensive products except of course consumables.
£4,000 or thereabouts for a new 350 Enfield, a loss of £2,000 in 18 months is a high percentage loss, but a relatively small financial loss compared to many other used models by other manufacturers.
Morning Stewart. Another interesting vid sir. Still no matter how you look at it, for insurance companies it's only good news when a bike is written-off. I will say this. As a once all year rider nothing gave me or my late wife more pleasure than riding on two wheels. Why get the shopping done in the car in one trip, when on a very crisp winters day 4 or 5 visits would do on a motorbike. Looking back, and once I passed my riding test, all but one of our motorcycles we bought, we had them for quite some time. And it was always a sad day to see them finally go. I'm glad I don't have a car in today World, so as long as my body permits I will keep riding as its good for the sole even if the bikes value continues to drop. As nothing beats riding on two wheels with the summer sun hitting you! Safe enjoyable riding till next time sir 👍
Here in the US, everyone bought motorcycles, boats, and RVs/Campers over the pandemic. Most didn’t ride them. There are SO many used bikes on the market now with EXTREMELY low mileage. It’s killed the market.
As regards RE I just think they have almost reached saturation point in the market in that most people who were going to buy one have now bought one. This is not helped by their model line up being in the main variations of the same basic models. (Put a different skirt on it and its a different bike)
Us RE owners have had a good few years so I guess the "hit" had to come. I bought my '69 plate Spectre Silver 650 Inter ,used, in the spring of 2020 for £4500 (new price at the time was £5800 otr) with 300 miles on the clock having just had it's first service (oil change and tappets)at a cost of £299 - so a total saving of £1600...pretty good! In fact until recently it was the cheapest, used ,650 Inter I had seen on eBay, most being about £5k+, I could actually have sold mine at a profit!! A mate recently got his license and ,having seen mine and the bikes in our local RE dealers set his sights on an Interceptor. When I started searching for him I was shocked to see how the price has crashed with some private sales nearer the £3k mark ....thanks to your video today I now know why!! As mine is a keeper this wont effect me but I am now seriously looking for a cheap , high-miler as a 365 day rider so my baby stays spotless ! Great video as ever Stu ,keep em coming ...H
A couple of points, having worked in the motor trade (cars) for getting on for 50 years until I retired, I’ve never agreed with the theory that you lose the VAT and import duty the moment you drive out of the showroom. Used prices are based on a percentage of new prices however they are made up. Also, everyone talks about high interest rates. A lot of us lived through the 80s when interest rates were much higher than they are today. For the last few years interest rates have been held artificially low, intentionally to stimulate spending and growth of the economy. The problem is that people then spend to the maximum that they can afford and when rates do climb they can’t afford the lifestyle that they have bought into…I’m not sure rates will go back to what they were a couple of years ago…As you say Stuart….just my thoughts.
@@cliveturner4788 Thatcher increased house prices by 300% in her 11 years. That trebled the amount of debt people needed to take on. It's only gotten worse since then. Data shows 1980s wages versus costs were better than now. 4,000 free food banks suggests it's true.
Great video and content…think a lot of us will have been in this situation over the Years (I know I have). I’ve seen a lot of people trade in their existing bike(s) for another in such times as some of the dealerships will come to a more reasonable price when doing so. In the past I’ve had to sell my bike and went without 2 wheels for a couple of Years but when things settled again I purchased the RE Interceptor (after watching your videos) and never looked back. I honestly cannot ever see me parting with this motorcycle as it’s become my pride and joy since ownership of 2 x Years. In the future (and if able to do so) because I miss riding throughout the winter Months, I would love to purchase an RE Himalayan. As you mentioned, the prices are such good value atm but typically, when I can afford to make this work, the prices will shoot up again! Such is life!! 😅
I bought my Classic 350 in April. The potential trade in value would be so low that if I wanted a swap (the new Bullet 350 looks very enticing) I might as well keep the Classic 350. So, for the first time ever we'd be a two-bike household 😊
Useful insights - I am not connected to the trade in any way, but I feel folks forget costs that dealers have in reselling a used bike; commission to the sales guy, dealer overheads and admin, technician time to prep the bike, energy, and last but not least they have to price in amortised potential warranty costs to rectify any faults found in the first months or so of ownership. My theory is that the used bike margin has to be at least £1500 and maybe more if there are issues on the bike that require attention before re-sale. This sort of margin is more noticeable on lower priced bikes, such as the Enfields, as a percentage of original price when bought (in addition to the costs mentioned and lost for just riding a new bike off the forecourt).
Good synopsis Stu. Another factor is the way nangy people are now buying bew bikes on PCP which is driving down trade in values as dealers big up their derisory offer and dress it up in some way as a good deal, using the money as a draw down to pay for the bew bike but glossing over the fact that that money will run out some months later. I've never bought bikes as investments. Instead, they are to ride and enjoy.. if at tge end of ownership I sell at a loss, so be it. That's tge cost of fun. You can't put a price on that!
To be honest, I’m inclined to agree with your assessment. A further complication is the current 5 year extension to the ICE ban, that, I suspect, has probably thrown a spanner in some long term planning works. After all, profits of some description have to be made!
You buy a motorcycle with your heart not your head, so 100% agree they are not investments. If you cannot buy new (lots of people can't) the used market has got some great bikes out there.
Sir Stuart, my first bike belongs to my grandfather, passed on to me by my father. Its a Royal Enfield 500cc & it is still with me in pristine condition. I bought my 2nd bike, again another Royal Enfield 500cc in 2007 and clocked more than 3,50,000 Kms. I bought my 3rd bike, a Royal Enfield Interceptor 650 in 2022 and clocked some 20,000 kms. I am in my late 30s & probably this is going to be my last bike if Royal Enfield doesn't release a 1000cc in my life time. I never sell my motorcycles.
Doubt you’ll see a 1000cc RE anytime (ever), since their biggest market still remains in India. Not sure if you’ve ever been to India, but I can assure you a 1000cc bike in New Delhi is massive overkill, and would likely get the average rider into some serious trouble with the driving conditions out there. Not to mention the price point would be tough to overcome for many Indian riders. That said, your best option for a near 1000cc RE would likely come by way of modding the engine of a RE Interceptor/GT 650 with a Big Bore kit or possibly some other future aftermarket option. Otherwise, don’t hold your breath. 🤢
Thanks Stuart, very interesting. Im not 100% sure if this realates too much to the majority of the Royal Enfield range but more generally a dealer was saying to me the other day that as the motorbiking community is an aging one they are seeing more and more people downsizing which is resulting in a glut of bigger bikes. He also said that in his opinion the cost of secondhand bikes would continue to fall for a little while longer. On a totally seperate matter I have recently been increasingly seduced by the Thirtieth Anniversary Fireblade which at £23,000 would for me be a totally daft purchase. Your comments have added a sense of reason to my thinking! I owe you one. 🙂
Vehicle industry is under pressure overall, a trend visible in the US and then of course in other parts of the world. Individual segments and brands have their pockets.
Being a "bargain shopper" ie bottom feeder, I anticipate this autumn to be particularly fruitful. Enjoy the hunt for the "it" bike with a wallet friendly price! I picked up my RE Classic 500 with only 450 miles on it. The previous owner decided riding wasn't for them and the cost of owning it was weighing him down. You are spot on, Stuart, there are great bikes at great prices to be had.
Great analysis Stu. The pandemic created a market anomaly in pretty much every consumer item cars,bike, houses,caravans you name it, citizens went nuts and spent like there was no tomorrow. It will take a while to shake out and then we'll have another crisis, energy, governance and or financial. This is the new normal ie madness.
I got my Interceptor before the Pandemic & a year to 18months after second hand one's were getting good money & modified one's were more than new one as long as kms under 5-6000km.
Classic reborn 350 is a rarity where I live. Bikes here keep their value. Either way, mine is a working bike. Use it every weekday and get my monthly transportation costs paid. Weekends, I do 150-200 mile round trips for umpiring….transportation paid.
l enquired about exchanging my 2014 Triumph Street Triple 675 R for a newer model. When l told the female sales person how many miles it had on the clock...82,000 kilometres..(51,000 miles)..she looked at me as if I'd made an improper suggestion...They only want very low milage, immaculate bikes. The only way of making money on your pride and joy is buy brand new, Ride only on sunny Sunday mornings and keep it for fifty years.!! then sell it in the 'Classic' market....
When I sold my first 2 Harleys I made a near break even on the Fat boy and a small profit on the Electra Glide no longer to do that as Harley over producing as they were in shorter supply when I sold them
A lot of common sense said Stuart, I'm always amazed at how some people seem to think their bikes are worth more than they are especially when selling privately. The simple rule is that if you expect to sell within a year then buy nearly new used where someone else has already taken a hit.
Spot on with the current 2nd hand market, I got a deal on my Yamaha P/X mainly due to buying it during lockdown was heavily discounted already, so only lost £900 after 3 years and now own a new Honda, fortunate enough to not need finance on it, still considering an RE 350 to use during the winter some great deals to be had, just going to wait for the rainy season to arrive for even better deals. I don't own a car so bike is essential.
My advice is to never pay more than £3000 a motorcycle, then you will never lose more than this in depreciation. Better still ride the thing until it will cost more to get through the MOT than it could possibly be worth paying and you may still get a few bob for it when you chop it in. Better still get it written off in an accident and then claim some degree of personal damage, or of course get it stolen. One way or another and not at all by design I have never sold a single motorcycle in 30 years of owning and riding them. I currently own and ride a 1250 Bandit and fully intend to carry on doing so until one or other of the above happens. I love the thing because it gives me everything that I could possibly want or need and it only cost me £2500 ten years ago and that was with my last bike's insurance payout. Why would anyone want any more than a 1250, anything else feels like a glorified shopping cart to me? It starts every time, looks fine enough, is very comfortable, feels great, never goes wrong, has got all of the bits and pieces, costs bugger all to service, and does 145 plus with seemingly no effort at all.
An insightful and objective take on the issue Stuart and one with which I concur. Ironically my local dealership was bought out by Moto GB in January and invested in a new showroom which accommodates an extensive range of Enfields with a demo bike for each model….then RE pulled the plug! Whilst one could understand a degree of indignation on the part of Moto GB I agree that their subsequent strategy of heavily discounting stock was born of pragmatism more than petulance….I also understand that the owner of Moto GB sadly passed away earlier this year which may have compounded an already difficult situation. All of which said I got a pretty good deal when I traded in my interceptor and Classic for a new top of the range Super Meteor 👍🏻
I bought my Z1b in Monterey in 1989 for $1000 (£650 then) and rode it to Boston, then paid a similar sum to crate and ship it back to Glasgow. I owned it for a decade, selling it for £2500. Wished I never had of course, as its value today must be nearer 10k. Oh well, live and learn.
Spot on analysis! I spoke to a dealer, who said that he'd normally sell 10 motorcycles in August, but this year, he sold only 1... and in Switzerland the Summer was excellent from the weather point of view!
Agreed. Always surprises me how the obvious to be explained. Been getting the e-mail offers from Royal Enfield? Me too... One thing you didn't mention is world wide greed. We'll give you .01 percent on your investment ( or nothing) but charge you 10 to 25 percent when you borrow. It's a great life eh? The moral, pay cash for bikes and keep them until the wheels fall off.....
I have to say, i think that big sports bikes values and interest is finished...unless you like to ride out to Wales on a Sunday morning just above tick over in 1st gear.Great vid though Stu.Thanks.
Good assessment Stu , I don't tend to swap my bikes frequently , my 2013 Tiger Sport I've had from new , so the current market value of around £4,500 in the great condition its in was money well spent for the please and memories its given me , The Interceptor I have had for 3 years in November and no plans to sell that on either. Great video as always mate.
Interesting video Stuart. My opinion on this, echoes some of what you stated. The Enfield twins, were often purchased by mature and second time bikers, that tend to keep them for several years. I know a couple of people that own them, both only cover a few hundred miles a year. Owners of these bikes often have classic or sports cars, that also cover very small annual mileages. They are toys, luxury purchases. I suspect some Triumph models are exactly the same. I am considering buying a bike again, the intention is to try some group touring events. A number of second time bikers are doing the same thing. I started looking at a new Enfield Twin. The thing is for very similar money, there are quite a few low use mature owner BMW GS and RT models around, or a new Benelli TRK 502-702, all are fully equipped ready to tour or commute with. I suspect other people are coming to the same conclusion.
This is a good point, I almost pulled the trigger on a new TRK 702X the other day, the value for money versus rivals is staggering. I also think bikers are sick of paying a kidney for 3 boxes on their bikes, people are moving away from the big 'travel/adventure' marketing stance of manufacturers and going for smaller models that accomplish the same thing, and fitting soft panniers. Ultimately people vote with their wallets, and the current market is showing this.
Hey Stuart, I just wanted to say that the best part about your videos is that they are long enough to contain interesting content and short enough to hold my interest. 😂 I always look forward to the next one, because I know I won't get bored.
I got the point, but in my country (Slovenia) prices for used and new are still very high. :) Hopefully this winter may change the situation. Great and enjoyable topic. Like very well deserved.
I can’t help but wonder how much the Super Meteor 650 may have to do with it. Here in the US of A a lot of people are holding back from buying a Royal Enfield until they can get their hands on the Super M. Or at least try it first. Some are jockeying to sell the bikes they have to free up funds for the new Meteor. I was shopping for a RE when I saw the release of the SM a year ago and stopped to wait and see the bike first myself. Still waiting, mind you. They’re late getting here with no target date for arrival. What’s up with that?
Agree with your analysis, the same is happening in other countries. For me depreciation is not an issue since I keep my motorcycles for a very long time, my first one is already 28 years with me and now worth more than when I bought it. And moreover, they're not paid with a loan from a bank.
Stu, great video as always. The dealer markup on new Royal Enfields is less than half of what you thought though. It's normal for prices to fluctuate throughout the year in the UK although the cost of living increase will have pronounced the effect this year. Prices drop like a stone after August and no dealer wants to take in stock they know they won't shift until next spring unless it's mega cheap. It's easy to minimise your exposure though: 1. Never buy from a dealer/trader if you can avoid it. 2. Buy in January and sell in April.
Nicely explained. I am planning to buy a twin cylinder here in India which I can keep till the time I stop riding because buying single cylinder every year is not really making sense to me now, given the rising costs and depreciation in the market.
Hi Stuart, I bought a new RA 5:17 650 interceptor a month ago for £5.500 otr I was delighted ,i was expecting to pay around £6.000. Didn’t trade in my other bike because I new I wouldn’t get what it was worth. All the best Martin.
Also, driving tests were impossible in covid meant people bought bikes and got licences. Driving up 2nd hand demand (esp 125cc bikes). Prices are more likely dropping from inflated 2nd had prices perhaps so returning to where they were or would be. Just supply and demand.
I just wish I could have seen this video before I bought as an "Investmsnt" my pair of 120th limited Edition 650 twins , Interceptor and Continental GT !
Haven't watched the video yet, but I've noticed that lately. A new royal Enfield is, say, $7000 and a 5 year old used one was $6800. Insane. Now they're around the $4k-$5k range in my area.
A good description of the current situation Uncle Stu. My excellent local RE dealer that supplied mine and a friend's Interceptor and another friend's Meteor 350 has shut down due this situation with cheaper bikes being 'dumped' on the market place effectively knocking any profit margin he had ! No-one was having bikes serviced as the weather meant no miles being put on them. He shut the business while still solvent BEFORE the winter came as trading he knew would be dire !
Royal Enfield seems to be doing quite well here, they hold 2 spaces in the top 8 of the biggest selling models in the last few years. Both Harley and Triumph are now launching 400 cc units to get in on the fact everyone I down sizing.
I never bought my bikes to swap them in a short time. I bought them because I liked them and wanted to keep them. My former Aprilia RSV1000 was with me from new for 20 years. Traded it in a few years ago for some new, less extreme bikes. I always take good care of them (sometimes a bit too careful and polishy...c'mon, it was quite an investment for me! ;-) ), so my plan is to keep these for as long as my health will let me ride. Basically my last bikes, as when I have them for 20 years too, I'll be in my 70s. I'll just go for a rental if I want to experience another bike from time to time. If space permits, I'll keep them afterwards as a piece of art in my house. When I go legs-up, my boys can decide what they want to do with them for themselves.
I keep my bikes a long time too, Ive still got my 86 GSX-R1100 that i bought in the early 90s, and my 2001 R1 i bought new, plus four others, newest one is a 08 MT-01 also bought new.
And on top of import fees, VAT and such, there are more new bikes available, so supply is much better than recent history, which means that there is no pressure to keep prices high. I love the term, "keep used prices buoyant."
The question is the trade refer to an online secondhand price guide that is not available in any form to the public. You used to be able to buy Parkers guide which mirrored Glass's guide. Where would you obtain a fair secondhand asking price guide?
I didn't buy my bike, or change it to suit my taste, because I wanted a return on it. I bought it to enjoy it. Imagine complaining that you can't trade in your fridge, T shirt or dog for less than you expected. Ah, expectations eh? Nowt as peculiar as folk. 🙄
Thanks for the insight Stu. The bike prices doesn’t effect me so much as I’m probably not the type of person a dealer likes. I keep my bikes a long time. Apart from my Interceptor, I still have the last new bike I bought in 1997. I do have friends though, that could have paid for a house with what they’ve lost on changing their bikes every year.
Hi Stuart, I always enjoy your videos. Always informative and delivered with the steadiness and knowledge of a well travelled man. I picked up my interceptor, identical to yours, one week ago and I love it. Being in Melbourne, Australia, we get some pretty damp and cool weather. What brand of tyre do you run on your bikes? Thank you in advance.
My thoughts differ greatly. I you purchase the right bike, they can appreciate in value. If like you buy a general "Run of the Mill Bike", as in the BMW for £20k you got, you'll loose a ton of money, Right "back to the dealer". Yippee the dealers are saying at you. It's the same now for "Electrical Cars And Electrical Vans", and Lorries for that matter. Some dealers won't even take them back as Part Ex. Why Buy and return it a year or so later? It's mental!......
My ( Triumph) dealer told me that the moment you drive your new bike out of the showroom it devalues by the VAT, ie 20%. That makes sense as you move from retail to trade values. Also Enfield keeps bringing out new models which does affect the older ones. My Himalayan's value dropped when the Scram came out and will be hit again when the new Himalayan engine lands here. I've been surprised how well the 650 twins hold their value. The 535 GT prices are falling as us old boys find clip ons less friendly 😢
I've never lost money on a motorbike. Always sought and bought a bargain whenever I could (almost always 2nd hand), looked after the bikes properly and never accepted stupid offers when it came to selling them. Even if it took 6 months to sell, I'd never let a bike go for stupid money.
Great video very informative I personally have never bought a new bike and have been riding for 46 years I bought my interceptor two years old for 5000 euros only 3000kms on the clock and it had 1500 euro of extras and mods on it great machine and I think I will be keeping it as its also great for carrying out your own servicing. My 1995 Honda Transalp has increased in value also a great machine Thanks again Stuart
Good Morning Stu , A very interesting video this morning & i think you hit the nail on the head with your content this morning , so take care & ride safe
second-hand values are high because of their low price in the first place, they are not thrashed by young riders, have been serviced regularly by people who are older and have disposable incomes they lavish on the bike, compared to a Chinese scooter of the same price at point of sale which can lose up to 75% of their new value in 2 - 3 years,
Apart from one new bike I bought 15 years ago and still own , I buy low mileage Japanese classics . Usually I make a few quid when I come to sell them . I sell privately . Dealers always screw you . Good video and I do love your Enfield's !
To be honest I think the second hand value is high I’ve not seen any great drop in prices. I live very near to one of the super bike factories and sometimes they are well overpriced
Re needs a 175 for furl mileage over 125 per gal. For local seniors. We got the hogs for the long cruiseing but need economy too. Yhode 350 not enough fuel mileage
Buy a bike and keep it for a long time. I kept my evo Harley for 19 years . Dealer gave me 600 more than I paid for it. Stuart I agree with what your saying . I’m amazed on the forums at the amount of folks have bought and sold an Enfield so quickly. I suggest buyers do their research , save up as much as they can to buy and then take 6 months to a year to decide if they really want it. If you buy and dispose of big price items quickly you always loose. However I must say Stuart that if and when I’ve been in dire straits I’ve always kept a bike , but I agree that’s not everyone.
Not worried about resale value in the slightest, these bike are reasonably priced to begin with so nobody should expect great trade in price, my interceptor is a keeper so I'll just right it off to having a good time 😊
I think behind a lot of it is the same issue with a lot of other items, With bicycles and motorcycles, If your importing it from Countries like China and India with over a billion population in each, They through sheer productivity they can flood the relatively small UK Market, In the Soviet Union a bicycle was a month's wages, People now dump better bicycles just to get them out the way, Every week Royal Enfield are producing hundreds of them, At some point there are going to be far more motorcycles than buyers, The price is going flatline for years at best
I do things differently to you. I never buy new (I got bitten by finance companies and depreciation years ago, never again) and I buy older bikes. I never buy a bike at its value, I buy them when they need love. I also never buy a bike that is common or dull. I then invest my time into making them perfect. I have 20 or so motorcycles, all worth way more than I paid or the time invested. Motorcycles can be a good investment. But almost never if you buy new.
Interestingly, it would seem that bikes now out of production which are of low mileage and in superb condition seem relatively unaffected by this price squeeze. This could be because of the smaller availability of such machines (classics...) and the steady demand for them from people who may be more financially better off. Even very recent model deletions, such as The RE Classic 500 seem to be holding their prices really well, if in exceptional condition.
yes, the trade-in market is appalling. I am reeling in my "wants" in favor of "needs" Not a word I usually use regarding motorcycles. Always enjoy your videos. Ride safely.
Stuart well accounted in your observations on manufacture and sales, the future currently is extremely unstable even down to the possibility of Bank closures and add another problem, supply is outstripping demand so something has to give? Motorcycles are playthings not everyday transport for most!
Hi Stuart, as a returnee nebie/ oldie, noting much of you advice/ help/ comment/ road tests.I have taken a plunge on not having a trade in AND the new Himaliyan out soon, I have been able to buy just a new 411 Himalyian for near 20% off the list price, £4250 otr. It s a hell of a lot of motorcycle for the money. Reminds me of 35 years ago when my new MZ ETZ 250 cost £499, which was less than a honda C50 cub. Thank you for your channel.
Hi Stuart, thanks for the insightful video. Do you think Honda will launch the new shadow phantom 745cc in the UK in 2024? They are my absolutely favourite bike, they have upgraded it with new brake disc and blacked out exhaust etc etc, it's been launch in California earlier this year to great reviews, just wondering if you know anything about it. Thanks
I was in a Triumph dealership today and in general conversation, it came out that their markup is 10% but after the cost of pdi and other related costs, etc., it works out at about 8% profit on each new bike sale. Whether that is true, and whether it is similar for all brands is a matter of speculation. They make their money on servicing, accessories, clothing, etc.
Good stuff. All understood. I’m just off today. To buy a classic 350. All serviced. Ect. From a dealer. That they sold new in April. Has 2 k. On it just like you said the chap wanted a bigger bike. A INT I think. I’m paying. 3.2 k Cheers. Good work. Clive
It is kind of exciting to see the buyers market at the moment. I hope some beginners in decent financial shape are able to take advantage of this market and get in the hobby on the cheap. I've seen pretty cherry Meteor 350s in the lower 3k range locally private sale which is very tempting since that's frankly very cheap. Like you would get a pretty clapped Japanese bike in that range but there are like new REs available for that. But alas I have 3 bikes at the moment and one of them I just picked up a couple months ago, a BMW GS, so I am low on space to put a 4th bike and time to ride it as well...
I bought my Sportster 25 years ago and I have 400,000 miles on my bike.I have gotten my moneys worth of it and it has proven worth it. My bikes are part of who I am and I think of them as more than just a vehicle I am attached to them and have feelings for them.
If you sell it and buy something new you will quickly move on.
Really? 16,000 miles a year in average? Sorry, but that's hard to believe... :)
@@KneziTezi I put around 20,000 miles a year on her. I don't drive a car. I live in Florida where I can ride all year.
@@KneziTezi here in Australia I could put 10,000 ks on one the clock on one road trip
@@KneziTezi Why not? He probably doesn't just ride to a coffee shop or sit on his laptop all day. Nick J
No matter how much you lose when you split up with a bike it's a pittance compared to what you lose when you split up with a woman....I talk from experience....
Yes, agreed at least you can get a part exchange when you trade your bike in !
Did you get it in the ear pet >either you or the bike goes ? < You chose the bike ;-)
😂😂😂😂😂
Royal Enfield bikes generally attract a more mature buyer. Such people often have more disposable cash, and can afford to indulge in passing fancies without worrying too much about the financial implications. They may have been away from motorcycling for 20 or 30 years, want to relive their youth, are reminded that biking is often uncomfortable and roads are busier than they remember, and dispose of the bike before it's even run in. Those machines will only sell if they are discounted further than the already discounted pool of new bikes, and machines with 5k on the clock will be lower still. I'm continually amazed how quickly people flip their machines, based on little more than the grass-is-greener and rampant consumerism. the answer is to buy for keeps.
Sounds like people are wasting money
Tell me where there’s cheap RE hunters, strong money
But your riding styles change, your use of the bike changes for different reasons and like you say want something different
At $3999, the dealership.
Not true. It's just because people trade it for another established brand.
In 50 years of riding motorcycles, its cost me a fortune in depreciation on bikes. Especially in the last 25 years where i've almost always bought new. But sometimes i dont do bad on a trade in at all. I just traded in my Yam XSR900 on a new bike and got £5.5K trade in price for it. Considering i bought it new 6.5 years ago at £7.2K its not bad depreciation at all.
But whether the depreciation is good or bad, the pleasure motorcycles give me is always money well spent.
It doesn’t matter if we are talking about motorcycles, cars, golf clubs, or wives. Always thinking the new one will be better than the one you have is expensive. So deal with it, or keep what you have and go ride! :)
I am a big believer in keeping a bike a long time. Then depreciation is less of an issue. And, to be honest, I find buying and selling a pain. Good video, Stuart. Nick J
So true,after like 14 years the bike stops depreciating.
My experience with my BMW here in my area is the dealership denied taking my bike for service, saying anything older than 10 years they would only do tires and oil change. Not even final drive fluids, grease driveline spline coupling, or change out brake fluid and clutch fluid. That left me me with more than a bad taste, not just for ever doing future business with that corporate hack of a dealership, but with BMW in general. That was in Austin, TX.
I moved to Tennessee....guess what? Same thing here!! "Your bike is too old (14 years R1200RT)."
So unless you are fully wrench capable, you better seek good service contacts before buying older bikes, regardless of pricing.
@@gckshea yeah you're best just finding a private bike shop not the stealership.
@@gckshea Main dealerships suck...backstreet bike garages are where it's at...and they charge less and usually know more.
Fully agree why chop and change all the time if it's running ok etc why bother o just changed the oil and filter on my Honda 300 last week so proud of myself and I'm doing the air filter next week ,at some point I'll do the brake pads too quite a sense of satisfaction doing your own servicing etc
You can of course, make a small fortune out of motorcycles. Trouble is, you have to start out with a large fortune....
I always work on the principal, if I only paid £4279, as in the case of my 350 classic, then the most I can lose is £4279, that's why I refuse to pay the ludicrous prices the main stream manufacturers charge for their products, especially now that RE are making the kind of bikes I like and to the standard of the main stream in quality terms.
Thanks for posting, this is a hot topic at the moment. OK, A simple comment to explain about money. "Old Money" people, like the British Royal Family for example, keep their vehicles for 30 years or more. Why? Because they know about depreciation and value. It's in the British general population culture, to change your vehicle every 1.5 to 3 years. This is how banks / finance houses get rich and everyone else stays poor. The life cycle of a vehicle is at it's most polluting at the beginning of it's life due to the manufacturing and distribution process too. A modern motorcycle, with proper maintenance will run for 100,000 miles and still give good service in all that time. If there wasn't the obsession with riding a new motorcycle on a regular basis, EVERYONE except the banks / finance houses would be a lot better off financially. 🤔
I keep All of my bikes for decades.I never trade my bikes in. My bikes are transportation not a toy.I buy used so I don't take a hit in depreciation. I am not interested in modern bikes. My bikes have a forever home like my rescue dogs.
@@frankiepitt9135 I just wanted people to know what I thought about it.
@@frankiepitt9135 He's just being quite frank about it :)
Personally I've never fallen into the must have latest model crowd. My current an only bike is a 09 650 v-strom coming up 78.000 mls. That's value in my book. 👍
06 Kawi Vulcan 900 here and I agree 100% on value. Keep riding!
Great videos mate ! Just got a 650 inter Baker . Earlier it was £6800, then £6000 on the road a few months later. After dealer plated it for a demo bike it was £5500.. Snapped his hand off. Loving it.
Prices are dropping in some areas and rising exponentialy in others like vintage machines, it also has a lot to do with technology and servicing costs, it has got so expensive to service some of the ultra modern factory type superbikes that you could purchase a good commuter for the same money.
Thats one of the reasons ive gone back to my roots, and started buying/restoring and riding 80s bikes, i can work on them myself, and thats almost as enjoyable as riding them to me. Trouble is, they have started to attract the attention of either the wealthy "collector" or the hipster crowd, who want the cafe racer them all. So prices are rising, fast.🤣
I will keep my 2022 RE Interceptor for as long as I can ride it. My other bike is a 2022 Hayabusa. Love both bikes!
The best option if money is key is to buy well secondhand and then keep it for ever ! Totally agree that for most motorbikes are toys, a luxury even. I’m coming up to my sixtieth birthday and times have changed, when I was young many, many people bought motorbikes as a means of cheap transport, I remember buying an MZ125, what a bike that was, lol. 👏😀👍🏍
@@Shadrach666 I should perhaps mention before the MZ were countless other bikes, obviously starting with mopeds, Yamaha FS-ie, Suzuki AP50, etc, we used to ride down to the coast at weekends on our 50’s loaded up with camping gear, beaches, beer and bikes were our weekends for most of my younger years, those were the days. Not riding bikes after beer of course! Since those days I’ve lost count of the different bikes I’ve owned, most recently 3x BMW GS, all bought new and covered over 50,000 miles on all of them, then. BMW R1200r, a very underrated and capable bike. Once bikes are in the blood, it’s hard to give them up! 😀👍
Here in California there’s very few used Royal Enfields and the ones I find I would probably be better off buying new even after tax, license and fees. This is probably because they haven’t been very popular here until recently and they’re still not well known or competing well with the big Japanese or European manufacturers. Americans are also very suspicious of inexpensive products except of course consumables.
£4,000 or thereabouts for a new 350 Enfield, a loss of £2,000 in 18 months is a high percentage loss, but a relatively small financial loss compared to many other
used models by other manufacturers.
Morning Stewart. Another interesting vid sir. Still no matter how you look at it, for insurance companies it's only good news when a bike is written-off. I will say this. As a once all year rider nothing gave me or my late wife more pleasure than riding on two wheels. Why get the shopping done in the car in one trip, when on a very crisp winters day 4 or 5 visits would do on a motorbike. Looking back, and once I passed my riding test, all but one of our motorcycles we bought, we had them for quite some time. And it was always a sad day to see them finally go. I'm glad I don't have a car in today World, so as long as my body permits I will keep riding as its good for the sole even if the bikes value continues to drop. As nothing beats riding on two wheels with the summer sun hitting you! Safe enjoyable riding till next time sir 👍
Here in the US, everyone bought motorcycles, boats, and RVs/Campers over the pandemic. Most didn’t ride them. There are SO many used bikes on the market now with EXTREMELY low mileage. It’s killed the market.
Plus riders aren’t getting younger of course
As regards RE I just think they have almost reached saturation point in the market in that most people who were going to buy one have now bought one. This is not helped by their model line up being in the main variations of the same basic models. (Put a different skirt on it and its a different bike)
Us RE owners have had a good few years so I guess the "hit" had to come. I bought my '69 plate Spectre Silver 650 Inter ,used, in the spring of 2020 for £4500 (new price at the time was £5800 otr) with 300 miles on the clock having just had it's first service (oil change and tappets)at a cost of £299 - so a total saving of £1600...pretty good! In fact until recently it was the cheapest, used ,650 Inter I had seen on eBay, most being about £5k+, I could actually have sold mine at a profit!! A mate recently got his license and ,having seen mine and the bikes in our local RE dealers set his sights on an Interceptor. When I started searching for him I was shocked to see how the price has crashed with some private sales nearer the £3k mark ....thanks to your video today I now know why!! As mine is a keeper this wont effect me but I am now seriously looking for a cheap , high-miler as a 365 day rider so my baby stays spotless ! Great video as ever Stu ,keep em coming ...H
A couple of points, having worked in the motor trade (cars) for getting on for 50 years until I retired, I’ve never agreed with the theory that you lose the VAT and import duty the moment you drive out of the showroom. Used prices are based on a percentage of new prices however they are made up. Also, everyone talks about high interest rates. A lot of us lived through the 80s when interest rates were much higher than they are today. For the last few years interest rates have been held artificially low, intentionally to stimulate spending and growth of the economy. The problem is that people then spend to the maximum that they can afford and when rates do climb they can’t afford the lifestyle that they have bought into…I’m not sure rates will go back to what they were a couple of years ago…As you say Stuart….just my thoughts.
But 1980s wages were much higher than wages are now, allowing for inflation.
Wages are awful now, if you're trying to buy a home etc.
yeah bit your 80 wages payed better a lot of things now with inflatiom they pay nothing
@@nonsononessunooko4066 don’t talk rubbish when you don’t know what you’re talking about.
@@Google_Does_Evil_Now if you think people were better off in the 80s you’re kidding your self.
@@cliveturner4788 Thatcher increased house prices by 300% in her 11 years. That trebled the amount of debt people needed to take on. It's only gotten worse since then.
Data shows 1980s wages versus costs were better than now.
4,000 free food banks suggests it's true.
Great video and content…think a lot of us will have been in this situation over the Years (I know I have). I’ve seen a lot of people trade in their existing bike(s) for another in such times as some of the dealerships will come to a more reasonable price when doing so.
In the past I’ve had to sell my bike and went without 2 wheels for a couple of Years but when things settled again I purchased the RE Interceptor (after watching your videos) and never looked back. I honestly cannot ever see me parting with this motorcycle as it’s become my pride and joy since ownership of 2 x Years.
In the future (and if able to do so) because I miss riding throughout the winter Months, I would love to purchase an RE Himalayan. As you mentioned, the prices are such good value atm but typically, when I can afford to make this work, the prices will shoot up again! Such is life!! 😅
I bought my Classic 350 in April. The potential trade in value would be so low that if I wanted a swap (the new Bullet 350 looks very enticing) I might as well keep the Classic 350. So, for the first time ever we'd be a two-bike household 😊
As Mack Rice said in a very famous song: "It's cheaper, to keep her"
Curious of what you were offered?
@@LannyGood not even looked into it, but I suspect probably around £2300
i got the classic two Indians and a Honda there's never such a thing as too many bikes........
I completely agree with you. . . Hence now a 9 bike family 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Useful insights - I am not connected to the trade in any way, but I feel folks forget costs that dealers have in reselling a used bike; commission to the sales guy, dealer overheads and admin, technician time to prep the bike, energy, and last but not least they have to price in amortised potential warranty costs to rectify any faults found in the first months or so of ownership. My theory is that the used bike margin has to be at least £1500 and maybe more if there are issues on the bike that require attention before re-sale. This sort of margin is more noticeable on lower priced bikes, such as the Enfields, as a percentage of original price when bought (in addition to the costs mentioned and lost for just riding a new bike off the forecourt).
Good synopsis Stu. Another factor is the way nangy people are now buying bew bikes on PCP which is driving down trade in values as dealers big up their derisory offer and dress it up in some way as a good deal, using the money as a draw down to pay for the bew bike but glossing over the fact that that money will run out some months later. I've never bought bikes as investments. Instead, they are to ride and enjoy.. if at tge end of ownership I sell at a loss, so be it. That's tge cost of fun. You can't put a price on that!
To be honest, I’m inclined to agree with your assessment. A further complication is the current 5 year extension to the ICE ban, that, I suspect, has probably thrown a spanner in some long term planning works. After all, profits of some description have to be made!
You buy a motorcycle with your heart not your head, so 100% agree they are not investments. If you cannot buy new (lots of people can't) the used market has got some great bikes out there.
Sir Stuart, my first bike belongs to my grandfather, passed on to me by my father. Its a Royal Enfield 500cc & it is still with me in pristine condition. I bought my 2nd bike, again another Royal Enfield 500cc in 2007 and clocked more than 3,50,000 Kms. I bought my 3rd bike, a Royal Enfield Interceptor 650 in 2022 and clocked some 20,000 kms. I am in my late 30s & probably this is going to be my last bike if Royal Enfield doesn't release a 1000cc in my life time. I never sell my motorcycles.
Doubt you’ll see a 1000cc RE anytime (ever), since their biggest market still remains in India.
Not sure if you’ve ever been to India, but I can assure you a 1000cc bike in New Delhi is massive overkill, and would likely get the average rider into some serious trouble with the driving conditions out there. Not to mention the price point would be tough to overcome for many Indian riders.
That said, your best option for a near 1000cc RE would likely come by way of modding the engine of a RE Interceptor/GT 650 with a Big Bore kit or possibly some other future aftermarket option.
Otherwise, don’t hold your breath. 🤢
A very sensible appraisal of the situation ... which is not always what you get online! 👍
Thanks Stuart, very interesting. Im not 100% sure if this realates too much to the majority of the Royal Enfield range but more generally a dealer was saying to me the other day that as the motorbiking community is an aging one they are seeing more and more people downsizing which is resulting in a glut of bigger bikes. He also said that in his opinion the cost of secondhand bikes would continue to fall for a little while longer. On a totally seperate matter I have recently been increasingly seduced by the Thirtieth Anniversary Fireblade which at £23,000 would for me be a totally daft purchase. Your comments have added a sense of reason to my thinking! I owe you one. 🙂
Vehicle industry is under pressure overall, a trend visible in the US and then of course in other parts of the world. Individual segments and brands have their pockets.
Being a "bargain shopper" ie bottom feeder, I anticipate this autumn to be particularly fruitful. Enjoy the hunt for the "it" bike with a wallet friendly price! I picked up my RE Classic 500 with only 450 miles on it. The previous owner decided riding wasn't for them and the cost of owning it was weighing him down. You are spot on, Stuart, there are great bikes at great prices to be had.
Great analysis Stu. The pandemic created a market anomaly in pretty much every consumer item cars,bike, houses,caravans you name it, citizens went nuts and spent like there was no tomorrow. It will take a while to shake out and then we'll have another crisis, energy, governance and or financial. This is the new normal ie madness.
I got my Interceptor before the Pandemic & a year to 18months after second hand one's were getting good money & modified one's were more than new one as long as kms under 5-6000km.
Classic reborn 350 is a rarity where I live. Bikes here keep their value. Either way, mine is a working bike. Use it every weekday and get my monthly transportation costs paid. Weekends, I do 150-200 mile round trips for umpiring….transportation paid.
l enquired about exchanging my 2014 Triumph Street Triple 675 R for a newer model. When l told the female sales person how many miles it had on the clock...82,000 kilometres..(51,000 miles)..she looked at me as if I'd made an improper suggestion...They only want very low milage, immaculate bikes. The only way of making money on your pride and joy is buy brand new, Ride only on sunny Sunday mornings and keep it for fifty years.!! then sell it in the 'Classic' market....
When I sold my first 2 Harleys I made a near break even on the Fat boy and a small profit on the Electra Glide no longer to do that as Harley over producing as they were in shorter supply when I sold them
A lot of common sense said Stuart, I'm always amazed at how some people seem to think their bikes are worth more than they are especially when selling privately. The simple rule is that if you expect to sell within a year then buy nearly new used where someone else has already taken a hit.
Spot on with the current 2nd hand market, I got a deal on my Yamaha P/X mainly due to buying it during lockdown was heavily discounted already, so only lost £900 after 3 years and now own a new Honda, fortunate enough to not need finance on it, still considering an RE 350 to use during the winter some great deals to be had, just going to wait for the rainy season to arrive for even better deals. I don't own a car so bike is essential.
My advice is to never pay more than £3000 a motorcycle, then you will never lose more than this in depreciation. Better still ride the thing until it will cost more to get through the MOT than it could possibly be worth paying and you may still get a few bob for it when you chop it in. Better still get it written off in an accident and then claim some degree of personal damage, or of course get it stolen. One way or another and not at all by design I have never sold a single motorcycle in 30 years of owning and riding them. I currently own and ride a 1250 Bandit and fully intend to carry on doing so until one or other of the above happens. I love the thing because it gives me everything that I could possibly want or need and it only cost me £2500 ten years ago and that was with my last bike's insurance payout. Why would anyone want any more than a 1250, anything else feels like a glorified shopping cart to me? It starts every time, looks fine enough, is very comfortable, feels great, never goes wrong, has got all of the bits and pieces, costs bugger all to service, and does 145 plus with seemingly no effort at all.
An insightful and objective take on the issue Stuart and one with which I concur. Ironically my local dealership was bought out by Moto GB in January and invested in a new showroom which accommodates an extensive range of Enfields with a demo bike for each model….then RE pulled the plug! Whilst one could understand a degree of indignation on the part of Moto GB I agree that their subsequent strategy of heavily discounting stock was born of pragmatism more than petulance….I also understand that the owner of Moto GB sadly passed away earlier this year which may have compounded an already difficult situation. All of which said I got a pretty good deal when I traded in my interceptor and Classic for a new top of the range Super Meteor 👍🏻
I bought my Z1b in Monterey in 1989 for $1000 (£650 then) and rode it to Boston, then paid a similar sum to crate and ship it back to Glasgow. I owned it for a decade, selling it for £2500. Wished I never had of course, as its value today must be nearer 10k. Oh well, live and learn.
Spot on analysis! I spoke to a dealer, who said that he'd normally sell 10 motorcycles in August, but this year, he sold only 1... and in Switzerland the Summer was excellent from the weather point of view!
Agreed. Always surprises me how the obvious to be explained. Been getting the e-mail offers from Royal Enfield? Me too... One thing you didn't mention is world wide greed. We'll give you .01 percent on your investment ( or nothing) but charge you 10 to 25 percent when you borrow. It's a great life eh? The moral, pay cash for bikes and keep them until the wheels fall off.....
I have to say, i think that big sports bikes values and interest is finished...unless you like to ride out to Wales on a Sunday morning just above tick over in 1st gear.Great vid though Stu.Thanks.
Good assessment Stu , I don't tend to swap my bikes frequently , my 2013 Tiger Sport I've had from new , so the current market value of around £4,500 in the great condition its in was money well spent for the please and memories its given me , The Interceptor I have had for 3 years in November and no plans to sell that on either. Great video as always mate.
Interesting video Stuart. My opinion on this, echoes some of what you stated. The Enfield twins, were often purchased by mature and second time bikers, that tend to keep them for several years. I know a couple of people that own them, both only cover a few hundred miles a year. Owners of these bikes often have classic or sports cars, that also cover very small annual mileages. They are toys, luxury purchases. I suspect some Triumph models are exactly the same.
I am considering buying a bike again, the intention is to try some group touring events. A number of second time bikers are doing the same thing. I started looking at a new Enfield Twin. The thing is for very similar money, there are quite a few low use mature owner BMW GS and RT models around, or a new Benelli TRK 502-702, all are fully equipped ready to tour or commute with. I suspect other people are coming to the same conclusion.
This is a good point, I almost pulled the trigger on a new TRK 702X the other day, the value for money versus rivals is staggering.
I also think bikers are sick of paying a kidney for 3 boxes on their bikes, people are moving away from the big 'travel/adventure' marketing stance of manufacturers and going for smaller models that accomplish the same thing, and fitting soft panniers.
Ultimately people vote with their wallets, and the current market is showing this.
Hey Stuart, I just wanted to say that the best part about your videos is that they are long enough to contain interesting content and short enough to hold my interest. 😂 I always look forward to the next one, because I know I won't get bored.
Thanks
Thank You Kevin!
I got the point, but in my country (Slovenia) prices for used and new are still very high. :) Hopefully this winter may change the situation. Great and enjoyable topic. Like very well deserved.
I can’t help but wonder how much the Super Meteor 650 may have to do with it. Here in the US of A a lot of people are holding back from buying a Royal Enfield until they can get their hands on the Super M. Or at least try it first. Some are jockeying to sell the bikes they have to free up funds for the new Meteor. I was shopping for a RE when I saw the release of the SM a year ago and stopped to wait and see the bike first myself. Still waiting, mind you. They’re late getting here with no target date for arrival. What’s up with that?
Agree with your analysis, the same is happening in other countries. For me depreciation is not an issue since I keep my motorcycles for a very long time, my first one is already 28 years with me and now worth more than when I bought it. And moreover, they're not paid with a loan from a bank.
Stu, great video as always. The dealer markup on new Royal Enfields is less than half of what you thought though. It's normal for prices to fluctuate throughout the year in the UK although the cost of living increase will have pronounced the effect this year. Prices drop like a stone after August and no dealer wants to take in stock they know they won't shift until next spring unless it's mega cheap. It's easy to minimise your exposure though: 1. Never buy from a dealer/trader if you can avoid it. 2. Buy in January and sell in April.
Good time to buy in Australia as well! Discounts on new bikes currently getting bigger even though it's the start of spring here!
Nicely explained.
I am planning to buy a twin cylinder here in India which I can keep till the time I stop riding because buying single cylinder every year is not really making sense to me now, given the rising costs and depreciation in the market.
Go ahead and get that twin cylinder! I got my chrome gt last month and i'm absolutely loving it! Cheers!
Get a good mech too.
Hi Stuart, I bought a new RA 5:17 650 interceptor a month ago for £5.500 otr I was delighted ,i was expecting to pay around £6.000. Didn’t trade in my other bike because I new I wouldn’t get what it was worth. All the best Martin.
Average age of covid victim 83 years…RIP
Pretty much spot on here Stuart. like you say this year has been terrible, poor weather and no money around!
Also, driving tests were impossible in covid meant people bought bikes and got licences. Driving up 2nd hand demand (esp 125cc bikes). Prices are more likely dropping from inflated 2nd had prices perhaps so returning to where they were or would be. Just supply and demand.
I just wish I could have seen this video before I bought as an "Investmsnt" my pair of 120th limited Edition 650 twins , Interceptor and Continental GT !
Haven't watched the video yet, but I've noticed that lately. A new royal Enfield is, say, $7000 and a 5 year old used one was $6800. Insane. Now they're around the $4k-$5k range in my area.
A good description of the current situation Uncle Stu. My excellent local RE dealer that supplied mine and a friend's Interceptor and another friend's Meteor 350 has shut down due this situation with cheaper bikes being 'dumped' on the market place effectively knocking any profit margin he had ! No-one was having bikes serviced as the weather meant no miles being put on them. He shut the business while still solvent BEFORE the winter came as trading he knew would be dire !
Bikes aren't an investiment, they're a depreciating asset.
Royal Enfield seems to be doing quite well here, they hold 2 spaces in the top 8 of the biggest selling models in the last few years. Both Harley and Triumph are now launching 400 cc units to get in on the fact everyone I down sizing.
I never bought my bikes to swap them in a short time. I bought them because I liked them and wanted to keep them. My former Aprilia RSV1000 was with me from new for 20 years. Traded it in a few years ago for some new, less extreme bikes. I always take good care of them (sometimes a bit too careful and polishy...c'mon, it was quite an investment for me! ;-) ), so my plan is to keep these for as long as my health will let me ride. Basically my last bikes, as when I have them for 20 years too, I'll be in my 70s. I'll just go for a rental if I want to experience another bike from time to time. If space permits, I'll keep them afterwards as a piece of art in my house. When I go legs-up, my boys can decide what they want to do with them for themselves.
I keep my bikes a long time too, Ive still got my 86 GSX-R1100 that i bought in the early 90s, and my 2001 R1 i bought new, plus four others, newest one is a 08 MT-01 also bought new.
And on top of import fees, VAT and such, there are more new bikes available, so supply is much better than recent history, which means that there is no pressure to keep prices high. I love the term, "keep used prices buoyant."
The question is the trade refer to an online secondhand price guide that is not available in any form to the public. You used to be able to buy Parkers guide which mirrored Glass's guide.
Where would you obtain a fair secondhand asking price guide?
I use my Int 650 oas a primary source of transportation. I intend to keep it for a long time. 😊
I didn't buy my bike, or change it to suit my taste, because I wanted a return on it. I bought it to enjoy it. Imagine complaining that you can't trade in your fridge, T shirt or dog for less than you expected. Ah, expectations eh? Nowt as peculiar as folk. 🙄
Thanks for the insight Stu. The bike prices doesn’t effect me so much as I’m probably not the type of person a dealer likes. I keep my bikes a long time. Apart from my Interceptor, I still have the last new bike I bought in 1997. I do have friends though, that could have paid for a house with what they’ve lost on changing their bikes every year.
Hi Stuart, I always enjoy your videos. Always informative and delivered with the steadiness and knowledge of a well travelled man. I picked up my interceptor, identical to yours, one week ago and I love it. Being in Melbourne, Australia, we get some pretty damp and cool weather. What brand of tyre do you run on your bikes? Thank you in advance.
My thoughts differ greatly. I you purchase the right bike, they can appreciate in value. If like you buy a general "Run of the Mill Bike", as in the BMW for £20k you got, you'll loose a ton of money, Right "back to the dealer". Yippee the dealers are saying at you.
It's the same now for "Electrical Cars And Electrical Vans", and Lorries for that matter. Some dealers won't even take them back as Part Ex.
Why Buy and return it a year or so later? It's mental!......
7:03-which model is that one? God, how I miss the standard seating position on motorcycles from the 70s!
Brilliant video as always Stuart and I think your spot on with your analysis 🤔👍🏻
My ( Triumph) dealer told me that the moment you drive your new bike out of the showroom it devalues by the VAT, ie 20%. That makes sense as you move from retail to trade values.
Also Enfield keeps bringing out new models which does affect the older ones. My Himalayan's value dropped when the Scram came out and will be hit again when the new Himalayan engine lands here. I've been surprised how well the 650 twins hold their value.
The 535 GT prices are falling as us old boys find clip ons less friendly 😢
I've never lost money on a motorbike.
Always sought and bought a bargain whenever I could (almost always 2nd hand), looked after the bikes properly and never accepted stupid offers when it came to selling them.
Even if it took 6 months to sell, I'd never let a bike go for stupid money.
Nicely summarised stuart. People need to realise any vehicle is a depreciating asset until it attains classic status.😂
You should try here in NZ Stuart, private sellers are trying to get the new price literally, for late model, S/hand low km, 500's.
Great video very informative I personally have never bought a new bike and have been riding for 46 years I bought my interceptor two years old for 5000 euros only 3000kms on the clock and it had 1500 euro of extras and mods on it great machine and I think I will be keeping it as its also great for carrying out your own servicing. My 1995 Honda Transalp has increased in value also a great machine Thanks again Stuart
Good Morning Stu , A very interesting video this morning & i think you hit the nail on the head with your content this morning , so take care & ride safe
second-hand values are high because of their low price in the first place, they are not thrashed by young riders, have been serviced regularly by people who are older and have disposable incomes they lavish on the bike, compared to a Chinese scooter of the same price at point of sale which can lose up to 75% of their new value in 2 - 3 years,
Apart from one new bike I bought 15 years ago and still own , I buy low mileage Japanese classics . Usually I make a few quid when I come to sell them . I sell privately . Dealers always screw you . Good video and I do love your Enfield's !
To be honest I think the second hand value is high I’ve not seen any great drop in prices. I live very near to one of the super bike factories and sometimes they are well overpriced
Very well thought out and insightful review. Thanks
Re needs a 175 for furl mileage over 125 per gal. For local seniors. We got the hogs for the long cruiseing but need economy too. Yhode 350 not enough fuel mileage
Buy a bike and keep it for a long time. I kept my evo Harley for 19 years . Dealer gave me 600 more than I paid for it. Stuart I agree with what your saying . I’m amazed on the forums at the amount of folks have bought and sold an Enfield so quickly. I suggest buyers do their research , save up as much as they can to buy and then take 6 months to a year to decide if they really want it. If you buy and dispose of big price items quickly you always loose. However I must say Stuart that if and when I’ve been in dire straits I’ve always kept a bike , but I agree that’s not everyone.
Not worried about resale value in the slightest, these bike are reasonably priced to begin with so nobody should expect great trade in price, my interceptor is a keeper so I'll just right it off to having a good time 😊
Always enjoy your videos, and this was a particularly incisive analysis. Thanks, and All the Best from Kentucky!
I think behind a lot of it is the same issue with a lot of other items, With bicycles and motorcycles, If your importing it from Countries like China and India with over a billion population in each, They through sheer productivity they can flood the relatively small UK Market, In the Soviet Union a bicycle was a month's wages, People now dump better bicycles just to get them out the way, Every week Royal Enfield are producing hundreds of them, At some point there are going to be far more motorcycles than buyers, The price is going flatline for years at best
I do things differently to you. I never buy new (I got bitten by finance companies and depreciation years ago, never again) and I buy older bikes. I never buy a bike at its value, I buy them when they need love. I also never buy a bike that is common or dull. I then invest my time into making them perfect. I have 20 or so motorcycles, all worth way more than I paid or the time invested. Motorcycles can be a good investment. But almost never if you buy new.
Interestingly, it would seem that bikes now out of production which are of low mileage and in superb condition seem relatively unaffected by this price squeeze. This could be because of the smaller availability of such machines (classics...) and the steady demand for them from people who may be more financially better off. Even very recent model deletions, such as The RE Classic 500 seem to be holding their prices really well, if in exceptional condition.
yes, the trade-in market is appalling. I am reeling in my "wants" in favor of "needs" Not a word I usually use regarding motorcycles. Always enjoy your videos. Ride safely.
Stuart well accounted in your observations on manufacture and sales, the future currently is extremely unstable even down to the possibility of Bank closures and add another problem, supply is outstripping demand so something has to give? Motorcycles are playthings not everyday transport for most!
1:05 Ok, I don't get how you so easily propped your motorcycle up on the center stand like that! I can never do it that easy!
Pull up! Not back!
@@stuartfillingham Aw ok, I'll try it in the morning, thanks!
@@leewriter4656 Try it now, you won't sleep otherwise :)
Hi Stuart, as a returnee nebie/ oldie, noting much of you advice/ help/ comment/ road tests.I have taken a plunge on not having a trade in AND the new Himaliyan out soon, I have been able to buy just a new 411 Himalyian for near 20% off the list price, £4250 otr. It s a hell of a lot of motorcycle for the money.
Reminds me of 35 years ago when my new MZ ETZ 250 cost £499, which was less than a honda C50 cub.
Thank you for your channel.
Hi Stuart, thanks for the insightful video. Do you think Honda will launch the new shadow phantom 745cc in the UK in 2024? They are my absolutely favourite bike, they have upgraded it with new brake disc and blacked out exhaust etc etc, it's been launch in California earlier this year to great reviews, just wondering if you know anything about it. Thanks
I was in a Triumph dealership today and in general conversation, it came out that their markup is 10% but after the cost of pdi and other related costs, etc., it works out at about 8% profit on each new bike sale. Whether that is true, and whether it is similar for all brands is a matter of speculation. They make their money on servicing, accessories, clothing, etc.
I wanted a new MT07 last year but the dealer markups reminded me why i NEVER buy from a dealership.
Good stuff. All understood. I’m just off today. To buy a classic 350. All serviced. Ect. From a dealer. That they sold new in April. Has 2 k. On it just like you said the chap wanted a bigger bike. A INT I think. I’m paying. 3.2 k
Cheers. Good work. Clive
It is kind of exciting to see the buyers market at the moment. I hope some beginners in decent financial shape are able to take advantage of this market and get in the hobby on the cheap. I've seen pretty cherry Meteor 350s in the lower 3k range locally private sale which is very tempting since that's frankly very cheap. Like you would get a pretty clapped Japanese bike in that range but there are like new REs available for that. But alas I have 3 bikes at the moment and one of them I just picked up a couple months ago, a BMW GS, so I am low on space to put a 4th bike and time to ride it as well...
Not complaining.Bought my 650SM as ex demo, 3 months old 950km on the clock for 1000€ less than a new one. No brainer
Definitely a time to buy, eBay has himalayan's cheaper than 90s Honda's👍