I am not a pastor but love your podcast. This message came at the right time for me. I am part of a small group of the Samson Society with a new member battling same sex attraction. This young man is married with two children making his situation more difficult. Thanks for this message, that I pray will guide us in helping this young man.
Thank you for your continued faithfulness with always pointing us back to Christ and His word with your teachings. This teaching is very helpful for me as a mens ministry leader. Have a blessed day!
The good Lord has brought me and my husband a same sex attracted neighbor. By providence I have been cooking him dinner once a week and showing him Christs love. I don’t know if he knows if I am a Christian but I pray for him as I make the food. We never know how our Lord is using us to reach the suffering. May the good Lord be with you all ❤.
If a Christian can experience the temptation to cheat on their spouse, lie, gossip, steal, murder, & any number of other sins, then they can experience same sex attraction. All of it is, as you said, a result of our falleness & we all are beset with some form of sin more than others. Great content as always.
That was helpful teaching as far as it went. However, I don't think Hershael York went far enough in what he said. Same-sex attraction is a desire to do something that is intrinsically wrong, and should we not expect God to lessen or even remove this desire? Should there not be progress in this area? Suppose a Christian man is tempted with fits of rage. As the Holy Spirit goes to work on this, I would expect this man not only to make progress in not giving in to the rage but also for there to be a lessening of the desire to get angry. It would seem very strange to me that we should simply expect this Christian man's desire to explode in rage to continue for the rest of his life. Similarly, it seems a mistake to me simply to assume that same-sex attraction will continue. Does God not want to free people in this condition, even if gradually?
I've been chastised for saying the same thing before. If I'm being tempted over and over of the same thing all the time I would need to examine myself of WHY I am. Is there something in my life, something I'm doing that's causing me to be tempted of the same thing all the time.
I don't know what bible you are reading, but it is not a sin to be tempted, it's the acting, indulging, and practicing sin that's wrong. Remember, Jesus himself was tempted in all points, but yet without sin.
@@sylvesterjohns7968 When Heb 4:15 says that Jesus was tempted in every way as we are, there is surely some hyperbole in that statement, i.e., some rhetorical exaggeration for effect. The Bible often uses words like 'every' and 'all' hyperbolically. Jesus, who had no sinful nature, was surely not tempted in every single way that human beings are tempted. It is very important to understand that temptations that we sinful humans experience can be divided into 2 groups: (1) temptations that are not activated by a sinful nature (e.g., Matt 4:1-11); and (2) temptations that are activated by a sinful nature (James 1:14-15). Jesus only experienced temptations in category (1). So, for example, the temptation for a hungry person to eat when it is inappropriate to eat, is not activated by a sinful nature. So it is no surprise that Jesus was tempted in this way (Matt 4:3). On the other hand, take, for example, the temptation to kidnap children and torture them to death. The vast majority of even us sinful humans are not tempted in this way, and this kind of temptation is activated by a sinful nature. It is unthinkable that the perfect Jesus would have been tempted in this way. How could someone who is pure love be tempted to do this? Importantly, Christians should surely expect to have progress in being freed from temptations that are activated by a sinful nature. So, to keep to the same example that I just used, wouldn't you agree with me that if a Christian is tempted to kidnap and torture children to death, we should expect God to do something about that? Surely you wouldn't just say that this Christian should only expect God to help him withstand the temptation and not free him from this desire itself, would you? Surely growth in moral purity for this person would involve getting free - even if gradually - from this awful desire. I would see homosexual desire as similar to this. It is a temptation that is activated by a sinful nature in the person. I don't believe Jesus was every tempted in that way, because there has to be a sinfully damaged part of human nature for that temptation to exist. And we should expect God to free Christians who are afflicted by this kind of temptation.
Hi Pastor, what about a celibate Same sex attracted person who would want to have a celibate partnership with someone of the same sex...either a heterosexual or another SSA person?
I don't think I'm special, but I disagree with your statement at 3:36-3:55. I'm not condoning a homosexual lifestyle, but I believe my struggle is harder because I'm forced to live a celibate lifestyle due to it not being acceptable, but a heterosexual have a choice to be celibate if they want to.
I agree with you. Even a handicap person is not special but his situation is. Especially when no one can identify with his experience. Also we are only 5% of the population and probably less in the church because over have of the 5% doesn't go to church. Not to mention fear of coming out and discrimination. So he is crazy.
Great message. I heard recently re. oppiste sex attraction Words to the effect of..... if the Creator of the universe wants to you to restrain from sex out side of marriage, so be it. The same can be said for same-sex attraction. I believe that marriage is between a biological man and a biological woman.
Every pastor needs to be very clear that same-sex behaviour is sinful and same-sex attraction is a disorder. But on the other hand, every pastor should also be a man who someone struggling with same-sex attraction can approach without fear. I can think of some pastors who are strongly (and rightly) critical of same-sex behaviour, but who seem to be so judgmental on this issue that I can't imagine anyone approaching them about it. Christians must hate the sin but love the sinner. So many go wrong by only doing one of these things, but we need to do both.
@@friarcharles22 It is true that there is a profound sense in which God hates sinners (e.g., Psalm 5:4-5; 11:5). But in a different sense of love/hate he also loves sinners. As Paul says in Rom 5:8: 'But God demonstrates his own love for us in that while we were still sinners Christ died for us.' Similarly, in Matt 5:43-46 we are told to love our enemies (who will be sinners), because God loves sinners (v. 45). And there is John 3:16 etc. etc. I think there is also a sense in which it is right for Christians to hate sinners, but there is also a sense in which we are to love sinners. The attitude that Christian pastors need to have is the sort of thing we read about in Gal 6:1: 'Brothers, if someone is overtaken in any wrongdoing, you who are spiritual restore such a person with a gentle spirit . . .' Someone who is struggling with same-sex attraction who goes to a pastor for help needs to be treated with love and understanding.
I want to note there is a big difference between "struggling with/against" and "Christian Insert sin here" the latter of which is absurd. A high majority believe so many out-of-context verses about homosexuality and the Alphabet people sins it's disturbing. Jesus showed the Middle Ground and was the only person to be able to "love all". He taught "Love the sinner; hate the sin." Ultimately, if you truly love those sinners in that group you can't compromise God or scripture.
What a despicable way to understand homosexuality that science has proven to be a natural phenomenon (that even occurs in wild animal species) and it is a sad proof that religions and the supposed sacredness of their books destroys open minded critical thinking and prevents morality to evolve and progress as humanity gathers knowledge. If you are a homosexual reading this, please know that there is a world outside religion in which you are accepted as a normal person, free to pursue happiness and and a kind of love that never hurt or threatened anybody. Then, you will be able to better understand the beauty of the world, without the need of gods, angels or fairies. Nobody will be judging you there for what you are, but for what you do. I'm not homosexual myself, but I feel sorry for how such an ignorant and dated speech enveloped in toxic pseudo benevolence will destroy your right to enjoy freely the only life you have. I hope you can grow out of it. Emancipate yourself.
I think the idea behind using "same-sex attraction" (SSA) instead of "homosexual" is that SSA keeps from putting people in a box as would the word "homosexual" as a noun. The noun would allow people to claim it as part of their identity when homosexual attraction is really an experience. Saying "I experience same-sex attraction" sounds more liberating than saying "I am homosexual", and when I say "liberating", I mean liberating from sin through Christ. People experience SSA but they should not be defined by it by saying they ARE homosexual as if that is all they are.
@@MFVyoshinator7 i appreciate your thoughtful response, but if you really think about it... is that what the bible says? if a guy is thinking about fornicating with another guy or a lady is thinking about another woman in a sexual way, then that's homosexuality. if a person steals, he is a thief. If a person lies, they are a liar. if a person experiences same sex attraction, they are a homosexual. Sin is sin. Jesus is the only one who can deliver us from our sin! "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." 1 Corinthians 6:9-11
@@subjecttochrist I can agree with you to the extent that they decide to act on it, whether through intentional lustful thoughts or through actions, given what you just quoted: "nor men who practice homosexuality". Yes, the attractions are disordered and against what God wants, but remember that temptation is not a sin until you give into it, whether it be by entertaining those thoughts or actually doing something. We all have many disordered passions, crosses that we must carry, but we can choose to give into them or not. From my understanding at least, a person with homosexual attraction would not be going to hell simply by having the attraction, as long as they flee from the temptation. Even Jesus was tempted, but He said no to sin.
@@MFVyoshinator7 well, the Christian faith isn’t necessarily distilled down to one’s outward actions, but inner sanctification. If one’s measure of success were only dependent on outward actions, then where do we put hypocrites? Here’s a passage that I think can be adapted quite well to the new phrase “same sex attraction.” “"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.” Matthew 5:27-30 ESV Christianity has always been a matter of the heart, and that’s the heart of the matter! Same sex attraction is sin.
If I'm being tempted over and over of the same thing all the time I would need to examine myself of WHY I am. Is there something in my life, something I'm doing that's causing me to be tempted of the same thing all the time.
First, don't call it "same sex attraction". Call it what it is, "homosexual lust". Even the desire is sinful, as is true of all sinful and illicit desire.
Yes but I have seen many whylo say they are SSA, which is the same as gay, in forums say they will remain celibate cause as long as they don't act on it they won't sin.
You can minister to them to a point. But there is zero possibly of a Homosexual being a Christian. Hear me out . God very bluntly calls Homosexuals an abomination, not just sinners. Now remember when God turned from Christ on the cross "Father , Why have you forsaken me" ? God turned because he will not look upon sin. Homosexuality goes beyond sin, it is an abomination. So if God would not see his own Son, Do you really think He will look upon a Homosexual? I hardly think so. It would seem like ministering to an active homosexual would be an exercise in futility.
If you were to treat this issue with the Bible guiding your actions and words, you would understand that there are indeed Christians that struggle in this area. For instance, it's very easy to point out the abomination of lust for another woman when you are a married man - if one chose to use such harsh language. Yet, as a society in a fallen world, there has been a wrongful acceptance of these actions in churches. Much of scripture points to how God emphasizes the correction of those in the sheepfold, because it's arguably more fruitful than preaching to those who choose to stay in their worldly views outside of our churches. Which then brings us to trying to understand how to treat Christians (members of our congregations) who claim to have same-sex attraction. Corinthians 5 is a great guide here. When reading about someone who would fit the mold of Corinthians 5, you are correct. We are supposed to cut them off from the assembly. Why? So they can deal with the gravity of their sin, and hopefully repent (turn to Christ with an apologetic stance). I will note, however, there are Christians who understand this is a sin, who are genuinely struggling with this. The same way an alcoholic, or someone with extreme fits of anger who are attempting to walk in true repentance for Christ. This would be someone who does not fit the mold of Corinthians 5, and thank God. So in summary yes, if a specific individual doesn't believe it's a sin and continues to go about their life choosing to continue this act after having being talked to/corrected by the proper methods/members of the church, then absolutely cut that person off. However, in this video, they were describing the steps of someone coming to an elder with this issue (chances are their heart is in the beginning stages of repentance). Hopefully we use more scripture as we approach this topic in our churches for the future, just do your best to judge in righteousness, so onlookers understand we are loving even in our judgements. Since many Christians need to also understand, we all judge. It's those that choose to judge out loud that need to tread carefully, since we are the representation of Christ in the world.
I did not judge anyone by my statement, God has already judged homosexuals and deemed them an abomination. Lev. 20:13 . And God's instructions for them are direct and clear. I can not support, in any way, a Church leader accepting homosexuals into GODS HOUSE. Nor can I accept a homosexual professing to be a Christian. It is simply an unclean act in all aspects.
@@firestorm8471 I agree with you. But Christ did die for our sins; that's the whole reason why God would not see his own Son in that moment you described earlier. Also, where did I say you are to accept homosexuals? I didn't. What I am asking now though is for you to clarify how you believe a leader should go about someone who has admitted to having same-sex attraction but they know it's wrong - or want to clarify it's wrong from a leader they believe to have authority within the church - and now they are seeking help from that leader. I'm 99.9% sure that the video portrayed here was trying to delicately paint the picture of this specific scenario. Arguably a little too delicate because, yes, the context seems to be lost within the comments. That is why I wanted to have dialog with fellow believers with scripture as our guide. Homosexuality is 100% wrong - that's not was is being discussed here. But are you telling me there is no room for someone struggling with that attraction who is seeking help? All I am doing here, for the record, is "iron sharpens iron." A lot of Christians (many I have had dialog with in person about this issue) will claim "the old testament doesn't apply because the new has come and Jesus paid it all." This is something the churches need to address. Jesus came to fulfill the law, offer grace, and become an advocate if we truly believe he is our savior. However, we also know that as a loving father he is not going to let us become the authority on issues that are labeled sin whether it is new or old testament, because we have both testaments for a reason. They are not secular or supposed to be treated that way. So when a Christian is thinking you are too old school, and you are commanded to lovingly correct them, if you give them the excuse where they believe you are simply mixing up too much of the old testament; how can you further help guide their soul in the right direction? We are commanded to share the good news, not just part of it. When you said, "you can only minister to them to a point" - I agree. I'm just reminding you, that some Christians don't fully understand what you mean there. Thank you for referencing Lev. 20:13 btw. That combined with Corinthians 5, Romans 1, and how Christians are called to judge righteously (Deut. 1:16, John 7:24), yet "love our enemies." This is a reminder that Satan knows how much of a fine line true believers have to walk (the straight and narrow path) - even when it comes to dealing with our own congregation. We must be wise and fully equipped before we speak on the matter. Thank you again for helping to achieve biblical clarity that's very much needed on this issue.
Have you EVERVread 1st Corinthians in the 6th chapter ? I think you should. It describes the state of fallen man before conversion. God is able to save and change anyone, that's if they allow him.
@@firestorm8471I thought Leviticus said men who sleep with men as they would a woman is an abomination. Equating sleep to sex. Meaning one has to do something for it to be so 🤔
All souls are genderless. Therefore when two people come together it doesn't really matter if they are the same sex or the opposite sex. If that is your preference then you should use it to improve your ability to love and care for others.
@@friarcharles22 That souls are genderless? As souls we are pure light and consciousness and we come into the body to express various attributes of the divine consciousness. In Genesis, God created Eve from Adam, so therefore Adam embodied both male and female before he was "split" into 2 people so that he could have a partner. That means at some point he was genderless before becoming a separate male and female (physically). Before that he probably had more of a lightbody. Adam and Eve represent aspects of the divine masculine and the divine feminine. They are also the same soul or consciousness just occupying different bodies that represent the male and female attributes that we all have.
This is not biblical. If anyone sees this and wants to follow Christ, then read, follow, and cherish Scripture, not worldly wisdom. People who are hungry will find anything to feed themselves, and often times they will feed on the world, and not on the Word. Be blessed, read and obey God’s word. “He answered, ‘It is written: Man must not live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’” Matthew 4:4
@@glassmw9823 What exactly is not biblical?? That we are not souls created by God?? That we do not exist to give and receive love like Jesus did?? You need to be more specific. God speaks to you through your heart. The Bible is just a tool to help you listen to and be guided by that gentle voice called the Holy Spirit. Be blessed.
@@OnyxStudiosInteractive you need to be more specific concerning the biblical evidence and backing to your statements around souls being genderless. Half truths are whole lies. “All souls are genderless. Therefore when two people come together it doesn’t really matter if they are the same sex or the opposite sex.”
@@glassmw9823 I understand...you beleive that if it is not "biblical" then it is not true. Centuries ago, it was not "biblical" that that the earth revolved around the sun. Saying that souls are genderless is simply stating the obvious. You embody a male or a female body however your soul is made up of consciousness and light from the Creator. You have both (spiritual) male and female aspects that express themselves in various ways. However your soul itself is genderless. Even the DNA that we all have contains genetic material from both our Mother and our Father, the male and the female... and it is the chromosome (mainly) that determines the gender or expression of the body but not of the soul. Because your soul is timeless and already complete with both aspects. You can't just go around saying something is biblical or not biblical in today's time...especially when it's based on individual interpretation and ideology. That's why we have different Churches and faiths around the world today. It is impossible to hide a universal truth forever...even from yourself:-)
Persons who experience same-sex attractions must be fully welcomed, and shown great kindness and compassion. However, they must also be edified with the truth. God-fearing pastors should should fully support any homosexual who is repentant, and is trying to live their lives according to the Word of God in good faith. The homosexual person should know they can approach their pastor with any concerns that they may have, and for any pastoral care that they may need. Pastors also should be able to tell the difference between a repentant homosexual person who may occasionally give in to temptations to engage in homosexual acts vs. a homosexual person whose life continues to revolve around satisfying the lusts of their flesh.
I always appreciate your heart to accurately discern things Biblically rather than leaning on your own understanding.
Amen. In a world that is saying that you can be a Gay Christian it's refreshing to hear sound doctrine and truth. Thank you brother.
I am not a pastor but love your podcast. This message came at the right time for me. I am part of a small group of the Samson Society with a new member battling same sex attraction. This young man is married with two children making his situation more difficult. Thanks for this message, that I pray will guide us in helping this young man.
Thank you for your continued faithfulness with always pointing us back to Christ and His word with your teachings. This teaching is very helpful for me as a mens ministry leader. Have a blessed day!
The good Lord has brought me and my husband a same sex attracted neighbor. By providence I have been cooking him dinner once a week and showing him Christs love. I don’t know if he knows if I am a Christian but I pray for him as I make the food. We never know how our Lord is using us to reach the suffering. May the good Lord be with you all ❤.
How do you know he has same-sex attraction?
Thank you pastor, this gives me hope, I wish live according to the lord but I have same sex attraction.
Thank you Pastor. I am grateful that I found this today.
A much-needed resource. Thank you!
If a Christian can experience the temptation to cheat on their spouse, lie, gossip, steal, murder, & any number of other sins, then they can experience same sex attraction. All of it is, as you said, a result of our falleness & we all are beset with some form of sin more than others. Great content as always.
LOVED THIS & NEEDED THIS❤
That was helpful teaching as far as it went. However, I don't think Hershael York went far enough in what he said. Same-sex attraction is a desire to do something that is intrinsically wrong, and should we not expect God to lessen or even remove this desire? Should there not be progress in this area?
Suppose a Christian man is tempted with fits of rage. As the Holy Spirit goes to work on this, I would expect this man not only to make progress in not giving in to the rage but also for there to be a lessening of the desire to get angry. It would seem very strange to me that we should simply expect this Christian man's desire to explode in rage to continue for the rest of his life.
Similarly, it seems a mistake to me simply to assume that same-sex attraction will continue. Does God not want to free people in this condition, even if gradually?
Yeah, but then he might lose the tax exemption status
I've been chastised for saying the same thing before. If I'm being tempted over and over of the same thing all the time I would need to examine myself of WHY I am. Is there something in my life, something I'm doing that's causing me to be tempted of the same thing all the time.
I don't know what bible you are reading, but it is not a sin to be tempted, it's the acting, indulging, and practicing sin that's wrong. Remember, Jesus himself was tempted in all points, but yet without sin.
@@sylvesterjohns7968 When Heb 4:15 says that Jesus was tempted in every way as we are, there is surely some hyperbole in that statement, i.e., some rhetorical exaggeration for effect. The Bible often uses words like 'every' and 'all' hyperbolically. Jesus, who had no sinful nature, was surely not tempted in every single way that human beings are tempted.
It is very important to understand that temptations that we sinful humans experience can be divided into 2 groups: (1) temptations that are not activated by a sinful nature (e.g., Matt 4:1-11); and (2) temptations that are activated by a sinful nature (James 1:14-15). Jesus only experienced temptations in category (1).
So, for example, the temptation for a hungry person to eat when it is inappropriate to eat, is not activated by a sinful nature. So it is no surprise that Jesus was tempted in this way (Matt 4:3).
On the other hand, take, for example, the temptation to kidnap children and torture them to death. The vast majority of even us sinful humans are not tempted in this way, and this kind of temptation is activated by a sinful nature. It is unthinkable that the perfect Jesus would have been tempted in this way. How could someone who is pure love be tempted to do this?
Importantly, Christians should surely expect to have progress in being freed from temptations that are activated by a sinful nature.
So, to keep to the same example that I just used, wouldn't you agree with me that if a Christian is tempted to kidnap and torture children to death, we should expect God to do something about that? Surely you wouldn't just say that this Christian should only expect God to help him withstand the temptation and not free him from this desire itself, would you? Surely growth in moral purity for this person would involve getting free - even if gradually - from this awful desire.
I would see homosexual desire as similar to this. It is a temptation that is activated by a sinful nature in the person. I don't believe Jesus was every tempted in that way, because there has to be a sinfully damaged part of human nature for that temptation to exist. And we should expect God to free Christians who are afflicted by this kind of temptation.
It’s a Call to repentance
Hi Pastor, what about a celibate Same sex attracted person who would want to have a celibate partnership with someone of the same sex...either a heterosexual or another SSA person?
Thank you.
I don't think I'm special, but I disagree with your statement at 3:36-3:55. I'm not condoning a homosexual lifestyle, but I believe my struggle is harder because I'm forced to live a celibate lifestyle due to it not being acceptable, but a heterosexual have a choice to be celibate if they want to.
I agree with you. Even a handicap person is not special but his situation is. Especially when no one can identify with his experience. Also we are only 5% of the population and probably less in the church because over have of the 5% doesn't go to church. Not to mention fear of coming out and discrimination. So he is crazy.
Pure Life Ministries could be a big help…..
Great message. I heard recently re. oppiste sex attraction Words to the effect of..... if the Creator of the universe wants to you to restrain from sex out side of marriage, so be it. The same can be said for same-sex attraction. I believe that marriage is between a biological man and a biological woman.
I'm amazed at the mind f that religious cults impose on people.
Every pastor needs to be very clear that same-sex behaviour is sinful and same-sex attraction is a disorder. But on the other hand, every pastor should also be a man who someone struggling with same-sex attraction can approach without fear.
I can think of some pastors who are strongly (and rightly) critical of same-sex behaviour, but who seem to be so judgmental on this issue that I can't imagine anyone approaching them about it.
Christians must hate the sin but love the sinner. So many go wrong by only doing one of these things, but we need to do both.
@@friarcharles22 It is true that there is a profound sense in which God hates sinners (e.g., Psalm 5:4-5; 11:5). But in a different sense of love/hate he also loves sinners. As Paul says in Rom 5:8:
'But God demonstrates his own love for us in that while we were still sinners Christ died for us.'
Similarly, in Matt 5:43-46 we are told to love our enemies (who will be sinners), because God loves sinners (v. 45).
And there is John 3:16 etc. etc.
I think there is also a sense in which it is right for Christians to hate sinners, but there is also a sense in which we are to love sinners.
The attitude that Christian pastors need to have is the sort of thing we read about in Gal 6:1:
'Brothers, if someone is overtaken in any wrongdoing, you who are spiritual restore such a person with a gentle spirit . . .'
Someone who is struggling with same-sex attraction who goes to a pastor for help needs to be treated with love and understanding.
I want to note there is a big difference between "struggling with/against" and "Christian Insert sin here" the latter of which is absurd.
A high majority believe so many out-of-context verses about homosexuality and the Alphabet people sins it's disturbing.
Jesus showed the Middle Ground and was the only person to be able to "love all". He taught "Love the sinner; hate the sin."
Ultimately, if you truly love those sinners in that group you can't compromise God or scripture.
❤❤❤
What a despicable way to understand homosexuality that science has proven to be a natural phenomenon (that even occurs in wild animal species) and it is a sad proof that religions and the supposed sacredness of their books destroys open minded critical thinking and prevents morality to evolve and progress as humanity gathers knowledge. If you are a homosexual reading this, please know that there is a world outside religion in which you are accepted as a normal person, free to pursue happiness and and a kind of love that never hurt or threatened anybody. Then, you will be able to better understand the beauty of the world, without the need of gods, angels or fairies. Nobody will be judging you there for what you are, but for what you do. I'm not homosexual myself, but I feel sorry for how such an ignorant and dated speech enveloped in toxic pseudo benevolence will destroy your right to enjoy freely the only life you have. I hope you can grow out of it. Emancipate yourself.
sound words.
💜
Why are churches being so squishy about homosexuality? “Same sex attraction” is the PC way of saying “homo!”
I think the idea behind using "same-sex attraction" (SSA) instead of "homosexual" is that SSA keeps from putting people in a box as would the word "homosexual" as a noun. The noun would allow people to claim it as part of their identity when homosexual attraction is really an experience. Saying "I experience same-sex attraction" sounds more liberating than saying "I am homosexual", and when I say "liberating", I mean liberating from sin through Christ. People experience SSA but they should not be defined by it by saying they ARE homosexual as if that is all they are.
@@MFVyoshinator7 i appreciate your thoughtful response, but if you really think about it... is that what the bible says? if a guy is thinking about fornicating with another guy or a lady is thinking about another woman in a sexual way, then that's homosexuality. if a person steals, he is a thief. If a person lies, they are a liar. if a person experiences same sex attraction, they are a homosexual. Sin is sin. Jesus is the only one who can deliver us from our sin! "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." 1 Corinthians 6:9-11
@@subjecttochrist I can agree with you to the extent that they decide to act on it, whether through intentional lustful thoughts or through actions, given what you just quoted: "nor men who practice homosexuality". Yes, the attractions are disordered and against what God wants, but remember that temptation is not a sin until you give into it, whether it be by entertaining those thoughts or actually doing something. We all have many disordered passions, crosses that we must carry, but we can choose to give into them or not. From my understanding at least, a person with homosexual attraction would not be going to hell simply by having the attraction, as long as they flee from the temptation. Even Jesus was tempted, but He said no to sin.
@@MFVyoshinator7 well, the Christian faith isn’t necessarily distilled down to one’s outward actions, but inner sanctification. If one’s measure of success were only dependent on outward actions, then where do we put hypocrites? Here’s a passage that I think can be adapted quite well to the new phrase “same sex attraction.” “"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.”
Matthew 5:27-30 ESV Christianity has always been a matter of the heart, and that’s the heart of the matter! Same sex attraction is sin.
If I'm being tempted over and over of the same thing all the time I would need to examine myself of WHY I am. Is there something in my life, something I'm doing that's causing me to be tempted of the same thing all the time.
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First, don't call it "same sex attraction". Call it what it is, "homosexual lust". Even the desire is sinful, as is true of all sinful and illicit desire.
Yes but I have seen many whylo say they are SSA, which is the same as gay, in forums say they will remain celibate cause as long as they don't act on it they won't sin.
Correct lust and attraction are not the same. Any lust is sinful. Even heterosexual lust.
You are full of bull. Unless you have same sex attraction don't tell us what it is. Get some education first
You can be LGBT and Christian 👨❤️👨
Why not say it? You don't have a problem with saying other made up things.
How do you know you are not under a delusion when you identify as "Saved"?
You can minister to them to a point. But there is zero possibly of a Homosexual being a Christian. Hear me out . God very bluntly calls Homosexuals an abomination, not just sinners. Now remember when God turned from Christ on the cross
"Father , Why have you forsaken me" ? God turned because he will not look upon sin. Homosexuality goes beyond sin, it is an abomination. So if God would not see his own Son, Do you really think He will look upon a Homosexual? I hardly think so. It would seem like ministering to an active homosexual would be an exercise in futility.
If you were to treat this issue with the Bible guiding your actions and words, you would understand that there are indeed Christians that struggle in this area. For instance, it's very easy to point out the abomination of lust for another woman when you are a married man - if one chose to use such harsh language. Yet, as a society in a fallen world, there has been a wrongful acceptance of these actions in churches. Much of scripture points to how God emphasizes the correction of those in the sheepfold, because it's arguably more fruitful than preaching to those who choose to stay in their worldly views outside of our churches.
Which then brings us to trying to understand how to treat Christians (members of our congregations) who claim to have same-sex attraction. Corinthians 5 is a great guide here. When reading about someone who would fit the mold of Corinthians 5, you are correct. We are supposed to cut them off from the assembly. Why? So they can deal with the gravity of their sin, and hopefully repent (turn to Christ with an apologetic stance).
I will note, however, there are Christians who understand this is a sin, who are genuinely struggling with this. The same way an alcoholic, or someone with extreme fits of anger who are attempting to walk in true repentance for Christ. This would be someone who does not fit the mold of Corinthians 5, and thank God.
So in summary yes, if a specific individual doesn't believe it's a sin and continues to go about their life choosing to continue this act after having being talked to/corrected by the proper methods/members of the church, then absolutely cut that person off. However, in this video, they were describing the steps of someone coming to an elder with this issue (chances are their heart is in the beginning stages of repentance). Hopefully we use more scripture as we approach this topic in our churches for the future, just do your best to judge in righteousness, so onlookers understand we are loving even in our judgements. Since many Christians need to also understand, we all judge. It's those that choose to judge out loud that need to tread carefully, since we are the representation of Christ in the world.
I did not judge anyone by my statement, God has already judged homosexuals and deemed them an abomination. Lev. 20:13 . And God's instructions for them are direct and clear.
I can not support, in any way, a Church leader accepting homosexuals into GODS HOUSE. Nor can I accept a homosexual professing to be a Christian. It is simply an unclean act in all aspects.
@@firestorm8471 I agree with you. But Christ did die for our sins; that's the whole reason why God would not see his own Son in that moment you described earlier.
Also, where did I say you are to accept homosexuals? I didn't. What I am asking now though is for you to clarify how you believe a leader should go about someone who has admitted to having same-sex attraction but they know it's wrong - or want to clarify it's wrong from a leader they believe to have authority within the church - and now they are seeking help from that leader. I'm 99.9% sure that the video portrayed here was trying to delicately paint the picture of this specific scenario. Arguably a little too delicate because, yes, the context seems to be lost within the comments. That is why I wanted to have dialog with fellow believers with scripture as our guide. Homosexuality is 100% wrong - that's not was is being discussed here. But are you telling me there is no room for someone struggling with that attraction who is seeking help?
All I am doing here, for the record, is "iron sharpens iron." A lot of Christians (many I have had dialog with in person about this issue) will claim "the old testament doesn't apply because the new has come and Jesus paid it all." This is something the churches need to address. Jesus came to fulfill the law, offer grace, and become an advocate if we truly believe he is our savior. However, we also know that as a loving father he is not going to let us become the authority on issues that are labeled sin whether it is new or old testament, because we have both testaments for a reason. They are not secular or supposed to be treated that way. So when a Christian is thinking you are too old school, and you are commanded to lovingly correct them, if you give them the excuse where they believe you are simply mixing up too much of the old testament; how can you further help guide their soul in the right direction? We are commanded to share the good news, not just part of it. When you said, "you can only minister to them to a point" - I agree. I'm just reminding you, that some Christians don't fully understand what you mean there.
Thank you for referencing Lev. 20:13 btw. That combined with Corinthians 5, Romans 1, and how Christians are called to judge righteously (Deut. 1:16, John 7:24), yet "love our enemies." This is a reminder that Satan knows how much of a fine line true believers have to walk (the straight and narrow path) - even when it comes to dealing with our own congregation. We must be wise and fully equipped before we speak on the matter. Thank you again for helping to achieve biblical clarity that's very much needed on this issue.
Have you EVERVread 1st Corinthians in the 6th chapter ? I think you should. It describes the state of fallen man before conversion. God is able to save and change anyone, that's if they allow him.
@@firestorm8471I thought Leviticus said men who sleep with men as they would a woman is an abomination. Equating sleep to sex. Meaning one has to do something for it to be so 🤔
Try minding your own business.
Prove Satan is real.
You can be LGBT and Christian
You can be an alcoholic and Christian as well... The topic is how to approach such a delicate situation in a modern fallen world.
All souls are genderless. Therefore when two people come together it doesn't really matter if they are the same sex or the opposite sex. If that is your preference then you should use it to improve your ability to love and care for others.
@@friarcharles22 That souls are genderless? As souls we are pure light and consciousness and we come into the body to express various attributes of the divine consciousness. In Genesis, God created Eve from Adam, so therefore Adam embodied both male and female before he was "split" into 2 people so that he could have a partner.
That means at some point he was genderless before becoming a separate male and female (physically). Before that he probably had more of a lightbody.
Adam and Eve represent aspects of the divine masculine and the divine feminine. They are also the same soul or consciousness just occupying different bodies that represent the male and female attributes that we all have.
This is not biblical. If anyone sees this and wants to follow Christ, then read, follow, and cherish Scripture, not worldly wisdom. People who are hungry will find anything to feed themselves, and often times they will feed on the world, and not on the Word. Be blessed, read and obey God’s word. “He answered, ‘It is written: Man must not live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’” Matthew 4:4
@@glassmw9823 What exactly is not biblical?? That we are not souls created by God?? That we do not exist to give and receive love like Jesus did?? You need to be more specific. God speaks to you through your heart. The Bible is just a tool to help you listen to and be guided by that gentle voice called the Holy Spirit. Be blessed.
@@OnyxStudiosInteractive you need to be more specific concerning the biblical evidence and backing to your statements around souls being genderless. Half truths are whole lies.
“All souls are genderless. Therefore when two people come together it doesn’t really matter if they are the same sex or the opposite sex.”
@@glassmw9823 I understand...you beleive that if it is not "biblical" then it is not true. Centuries ago, it was not "biblical" that that the earth revolved around the sun. Saying that souls are genderless is simply stating the obvious.
You embody a male or a female body however your soul is made up of consciousness and light from the Creator. You have both
(spiritual) male and female aspects that express themselves in various ways. However your soul itself is genderless.
Even the DNA that we all have contains genetic material from both our Mother and our Father, the male and the female... and it is the chromosome (mainly) that determines the gender or expression of the body but not of the soul. Because your soul is timeless and already complete with both aspects.
You can't just go around saying something is biblical or not biblical in today's time...especially when it's based on individual interpretation and ideology. That's why we have different Churches and faiths around the world today. It is impossible to hide a universal truth forever...even from yourself:-)
Persons who experience same-sex attractions must be fully welcomed, and shown great kindness and compassion. However, they must also be edified with the truth.
God-fearing pastors should should fully support any homosexual who is repentant, and is trying to live their lives according to the Word of God in good faith. The homosexual person should know they can approach their pastor with any concerns that they may have, and for any pastoral care that they may need.
Pastors also should be able to tell the difference between a repentant homosexual person who may occasionally give in to temptations to engage in homosexual acts vs. a homosexual person whose life continues to revolve around satisfying the lusts of their flesh.