Hey Guys, thank you for your awsome content here. I have a question: wich Mode does sia use in the Song chandlier when she ist Singing the Chorus? Especialiy the "I'm"?
Hey! Thank you very much! The chorus switches between modes and you can actually find all four in there. The highest notes are falsetto Neutral. The "I'm" bit is usually Overdrive, except when she sings "I'm gonna fly like a bird through the night" when she's doing Curbing. Listen to how much more restrained the "I'm" sounds in that line compared to the other ones. Ivan
@@RockVoxYT wow! Thank you very much! I think I understand. Is the Overdrive "I'm" at the begining a bit medium? And does the Overdrive has a limit how high it can be used? And If it is: is there the same limit for Overdrive for female and male singers?
Yes, it is medium. And yes, there's a limit. C5 for male singers and D5 for female. That's using scientific pitch notation, just in case you're used to different octave numbering system. So the C above the middle C for men and the D above that.
Hi Trevelyan! A quick reply to this is that I find the signature power metal approach for the high range to be RD Edge. Almost all power metal singers do that around the C5 area. And then higher than that gradually transitioning towards a very twanged falsetto with a hold. Ivan
Two 🐐🐐 at work! 🔥 This channel probably already has more useful info than all other singing technique channels on YT haha. What do y'all think about a 'training philosophy' or 'general training recommendations' video? Elaborate 60 mins SOVTE-esque programs are all over YT and don't help singers as much as the program creators would like us to believe.
I loved the video. Just thought I should let you know :). I think sooner or later you are gonna run out of ideas for trchnique of phonating so I would really like to hear what it is that a dude can be considered a good singer and how to train that - I mean stuff such as rythm, harmonizing, being always ready to sing… stuff that is important for gigging.
Great video as always! I have a question: When a male sings Full Density Neutral above A4, is he doing it on M1 or M2? I try not to mix terminology but this is a subject I've been curious about for a long time. You guys rock!
Thank you! It's M1. Both FD and RD would fall under M1 and CVT Falsetto is M2. M1 and M2 are terms that are strictly related to the laryngeal vibratory mechanism, so they're best described by the idea of density in CVT. You could say that RD is moving closer to M2, but it's still on the M1 side.
Hi Joanna! You can use any of the generic piano scales you find anywhere. The scale pattern doesn't matter as much as what you do with it, so you can practice centers of the mode with any backing track. What's sometimes even more fun is taking a song and singing it only on a single vowel and mode without consonants. You'll still be practicing the mode centers, but in a more fun and musical way 🙂
@@RockVoxYT Thank-you, I know about the scales but I'm confused as which vowels to sing at what notes starting and ending. For a female, for example can I start all modes on E-3 and end on E-5? That's is why I was asking for your tracks to practice with. I've been watching as many of your videos as possible to try and figure it out. How much is your vocal coaching in Canadian dollars?
Sorry for the late reply! For whatever reason, UA-cam hasn't shown me your comment until now. If an E3 is a comfortable note for you, absolutely. E5 will not work in Overdrive though as Overdrive has a female limit at D5. Please email us for info about the lesson pricing. It can change over time and I don't want to leave a fixed sum in the comments here that someone might see 10 years from now and expect the same pricing 😅
Great video guys. Golden info, just as always, keep them coming :D Edit: One question, were you guys always , or at least since your early training, able to hit notes like C5 and above in Edge? I ( Male 23) can't acces neither overdrive or Edge above an A4, my throat starts feeling as if I need to "push" no matter how much I focus on trying to keep the "twang+ M1" feeling, and if I relax I just break into falsetto. Is there something fundamentally wrong about me, should it be easy for men to sing in Edge above A4? or is it just some people that can do it? Thanks in advance, great video.
What about a very strong and powerful head voice that can be confused with chest voice? Sometimes I sing in head voice but people think I'm singing in chest...
That entirely depends on what your definition of head voice is :) As we stated in the video, people often use these terms in different manners, so it's hard to say anything without hearing the sound.
Awsome video! You're big goats! I have a lot of doubt about how can i distinct, an from there working on, some similar sounds like twanged neutral and reduced density edge. Perharps you could make a video about some troubleshouting on identifying modes that has similar sounds.
Yes, the golden exercises are about all the possible transitions. If you aim to use multiple modes in your singing, and most singers definitely do, it's a good idea to practice transitioning between them! So yes, it makes sense to incorporate them into your routine.
Yo guys, I was wondering since there is no "mixed voice" in CVT how do we classify the way Sting sing Roxanne. Is it curbing or Edge with reduced density ? Or something else ? The song is so high I can't figure it out and sing it myself.
He is definitely singing mostly in reduced density there! There is some Curbing, some RD Edge and some RD Neutral depending on his volume and vowel on the specific part! Ivan
Very interesting video. Does that mean that falsetto when understood as a pitch/range category is a made up thing? So, you mean that falsetto is a characteristic related to a sound timbre, not , for example, a name of the range after the passagio? Also, would you say the CVT app is useful without a teacher?
That's a terminology thing again. Any term is made up and basically all voice categorization is made up to some degree. Separating ideas into categories makes things more manageable for learning purposes. The issue with the term falsetto is again that it's loaded with different meanings. In my view and in CVT, falsetto is about a specific coordination that is generally characterized by a lower contact quotient (vocal folds stay together for a shorter amount of time in each cycle), lower subglottic pressure, less TA engagement, more open supraglottic area, less vertical phase difference... That coordination can be accomplished in different pitch ranges. I can do that down to about G2 or A2. But this particular coordination is more often used in higher pitches (middle fourth octave and up), so sometimes people just use the term to refer to high notes.
Thank you for your explanation. I like how CVT puts that. That's hell when you hear things like: "sing this high pitch. No, not in falsetto. Falsetto sounds bad. Reach it with your chest voice...", etc. Which almost made me think that I, like, have two voices, one thin and "bad" , the other "good" but limited in range. Now I try stuff you show, I like it, and I like the idea of treating the voice as a whole thing. Gives me some hope, guys. I really appreciate it.
Awesome! Thank you! You could say that some coordinations are more stylistically appropriate for a given song in a certain range. Falsetto is certainly not always bad. There are many singers who used falsetto in a very tasty manner!
Density is about the amount of thyroid tilt. With reduced density, the thyroid tilts forward and down thereby stretching the vocal folds further. Metal on the other hand is probably produced by a three part action: higher activity in the thyroarytenoid muscle, higher subglottic pressure and a high degree of epilaryngeal narrowing. All three together contribute to bring the parameter called maximum flow declination rate (MFDR) up which makes the sound more cutting, pingy and buzzy. If I'm gonna describe the sounds, reduced density sounds restrained while fuller density sounds clear and free. Reducing the density limits the maximum amount of metal you can have, so that may be the relationship you're hearing. Cheers, Ivan
@@RockVoxYT Thanks Ivan. Loved that. (: However, I've got a final question regarding that. You said that the amount of density is more related to that 'tilt'. Wouldn't it change the pitch theoretically?
You're welcome! I love nerding out like this! There's more to pitch than just vocal fold length. You are right that stretching the vocal folds by tilting the thyroid cartilage would raise the pitch if all other parameters stayed equal. However, vocal fold tension and subglottic pressure all play a part in pitch regulation. So you basically raise the pitch by tilting and stretching the vocal folds, but then lower it with other means. There's an MRI study out that has indeed shown longer vocal fold length in reduced density compared to the same pitch in fuller density.
@@RockVoxYT I see. Thanks. However, that brings me to my question again. I mean, if the metallic sound has to do with how much the borders of the vocal cords (beef) are engaged during the phonation; the CQ has to do with how much they stay closed in a cycle (be it 'metallic' or not); and 'tilting' + sometimes breath support regulate the pitch, what's "density" exactly? Thanks again. (:
In terms of auditory perception, it's about whether the sound is restrained or clear. In terms of physiology, it's about whether the thyroid is tilted or not. Again, there is more to pitch regulation than just stretching the vocal folds. So, I wouldn't get too hung up on the idea that tilting is just about changing the pitch. You can change the amount of vocal fold tension with the same vocal fold length by engaging both the muscles that shorten the vocal folds (TA) and the muscles that stretch them (CT). Increasing the tension raises the pitch as well. Subglottic pressure also changes the pitch. If you work with beginner singers, you will notice that every time you ask them to sing louder they will also go higher in pitch. That's because subglottic pressure controls both.
Finally! you guys are back!! And Ivan has a new chair!! :D
Yeah, I was constantly leaning to the side to use the piano in online lessons and at my old chair just snapped 😄
So decided I need one with wheels
You guys are so talented and sweet! Thank-you for sharing your expertise!
muchas gracias por estos videos saludos desde Uruguay!
Hey Guys, thank you for your awsome content here. I have a question: wich Mode does sia use in the Song chandlier when she ist Singing the Chorus? Especialiy the "I'm"?
Hey! Thank you very much!
The chorus switches between modes and you can actually find all four in there. The highest notes are falsetto Neutral. The "I'm" bit is usually Overdrive, except when she sings "I'm gonna fly like a bird through the night" when she's doing Curbing. Listen to how much more restrained the "I'm" sounds in that line compared to the other ones.
Ivan
@@RockVoxYT wow! Thank you very much! I think I understand. Is the Overdrive "I'm" at the begining a bit medium? And does the Overdrive has a limit how high it can be used? And If it is: is there the same limit for Overdrive for female and male singers?
Yes, it is medium. And yes, there's a limit. C5 for male singers and D5 for female. That's using scientific pitch notation, just in case you're used to different octave numbering system. So the C above the middle C for men and the D above that.
Great video. So much of what you guys are saying is resonating with me
Loving this channel. Please do a video like this for power metal. I’d love to know what those guys are doing from a CVT perspective.
Hi Trevelyan!
A quick reply to this is that I find the signature power metal approach for the high range to be RD Edge. Almost all power metal singers do that around the C5 area. And then higher than that gradually transitioning towards a very twanged falsetto with a hold.
Ivan
Love these videos! Each video has been so helpful. Keep them coming!
Two 🐐🐐 at work! 🔥
This channel probably already has more useful info than all other singing technique channels on YT haha. What do y'all think about a 'training philosophy' or 'general training recommendations' video?
Elaborate 60 mins SOVTE-esque programs are all over YT and don't help singers as much as the program creators would like us to believe.
Thank you, Abhijit! That's a great idea. We'll think about it and I think it's likely that we'll do it 😎
I loved the video. Just thought I should let you know :). I think sooner or later you are gonna run out of ideas for trchnique of phonating so I would really like to hear what it is that a dude can be considered a good singer and how to train that - I mean stuff such as rythm, harmonizing, being always ready to sing… stuff that is important for gigging.
Could you guys please explain and give sound examples for full and reduced density neutral compared to falsetto? Thank you!
Great video as always! I have a question: When a male sings Full Density Neutral above A4, is he doing it on M1 or M2?
I try not to mix terminology but this is a subject I've been curious about for a long time.
You guys rock!
Thank you!
It's M1. Both FD and RD would fall under M1 and CVT Falsetto is M2. M1 and M2 are terms that are strictly related to the laryngeal vibratory mechanism, so they're best described by the idea of density in CVT. You could say that RD is moving closer to M2, but it's still on the M1 side.
Do you have any exercises that I can download on my computer as I don't have a cell phone to buy the CVT app. Please let me know, thank-you.
Hi Joanna! You can use any of the generic piano scales you find anywhere. The scale pattern doesn't matter as much as what you do with it, so you can practice centers of the mode with any backing track. What's sometimes even more fun is taking a song and singing it only on a single vowel and mode without consonants. You'll still be practicing the mode centers, but in a more fun and musical way 🙂
@@RockVoxYT Thank-you, I know about the scales but I'm confused as which vowels to sing at what notes starting and ending. For a female, for example can I start all modes on E-3 and end on E-5? That's is why I was asking for your tracks to practice with. I've been watching as many of your videos as possible to try and figure it out. How much is your vocal coaching in Canadian dollars?
Sorry for the late reply! For whatever reason, UA-cam hasn't shown me your comment until now.
If an E3 is a comfortable note for you, absolutely. E5 will not work in Overdrive though as Overdrive has a female limit at D5.
Please email us for info about the lesson pricing. It can change over time and I don't want to leave a fixed sum in the comments here that someone might see 10 years from now and expect the same pricing 😅
@@RockVoxYT Thanks so much! What is your e-mail address, I guess I can find it on your You-Tube Video.
You can contact us through our websites:
Ivan Mihaljevic (long haired dude): supersonicsongbird.com/
Aaron Perry (short haired dude): aaronperry.de/
Great video guys. Golden info, just as always, keep them coming :D
Edit: One question, were you guys always , or at least since your early training, able to hit notes like C5 and above in Edge? I ( Male 23) can't acces neither overdrive or Edge above an A4, my throat starts feeling as if I need to "push" no matter how much I focus on trying to keep the "twang+ M1" feeling, and if I relax I just break into falsetto. Is there something fundamentally wrong about me, should it be easy for men to sing in Edge above A4? or is it just some people that can do it? Thanks in advance, great video.
It definitely took me a lot of practice to get to a place where I can sing above G4. So it's definitely something you can work on and develop!
Ivan
Ty for the answe Ivan. I'll just keep on practicing then
What about a very strong and powerful head voice that can be confused with chest voice? Sometimes I sing in head voice but people think I'm singing in chest...
That entirely depends on what your definition of head voice is :)
As we stated in the video, people often use these terms in different manners, so it's hard to say anything without hearing the sound.
Awsome video! You're big goats!
I have a lot of doubt about how can i distinct, an from there working on, some similar sounds like twanged neutral and reduced density edge. Perharps you could make a video about some troubleshouting on identifying modes that has similar sounds.
Answer coming in a new video that will be out later today :)
Great demonstrations, as usual. Are golden exercices always about transitions? Do you recommend to incorporate them into singer's daily routines?
Yes, the golden exercises are about all the possible transitions. If you aim to use multiple modes in your singing, and most singers definitely do, it's a good idea to practice transitioning between them! So yes, it makes sense to incorporate them into your routine.
Yo guys, I was wondering since there is no "mixed voice" in CVT how do we classify the way Sting sing Roxanne. Is it curbing or Edge with reduced density ? Or something else ? The song is so high I can't figure it out and sing it myself.
He is definitely singing mostly in reduced density there! There is some Curbing, some RD Edge and some RD Neutral depending on his volume and vowel on the specific part!
Ivan
@@RockVoxYT Thanks a lot for your answer !
Very interesting video.
Does that mean that falsetto when understood as a pitch/range category is a made up thing? So, you mean that falsetto is a characteristic related to a sound timbre, not , for example, a name of the range after the passagio?
Also, would you say the CVT app is useful without a teacher?
That's a terminology thing again. Any term is made up and basically all voice categorization is made up to some degree. Separating ideas into categories makes things more manageable for learning purposes. The issue with the term falsetto is again that it's loaded with different meanings.
In my view and in CVT, falsetto is about a specific coordination that is generally characterized by a lower contact quotient (vocal folds stay together for a shorter amount of time in each cycle), lower subglottic pressure, less TA engagement, more open supraglottic area, less vertical phase difference... That coordination can be accomplished in different pitch ranges. I can do that down to about G2 or A2.
But this particular coordination is more often used in higher pitches (middle fourth octave and up), so sometimes people just use the term to refer to high notes.
Thank you for your explanation. I like how CVT puts that.
That's hell when you hear things like: "sing this high pitch. No, not in falsetto. Falsetto sounds bad. Reach it with your chest voice...", etc. Which almost made me think that I, like, have two voices, one thin and "bad" , the other "good" but limited in range. Now I try stuff you show, I like it, and I like the idea of treating the voice as a whole thing. Gives me some hope, guys. I really appreciate it.
Awesome! Thank you!
You could say that some coordinations are more stylistically appropriate for a given song in a certain range. Falsetto is certainly not always bad. There are many singers who used falsetto in a very tasty manner!
Hey guys, what's the difference between "the amount of metal" and "density" in the voice? They seem to be the same thing. Thanks. (:
Density is about the amount of thyroid tilt. With reduced density, the thyroid tilts forward and down thereby stretching the vocal folds further. Metal on the other hand is probably produced by a three part action: higher activity in the thyroarytenoid muscle, higher subglottic pressure and a high degree of epilaryngeal narrowing. All three together contribute to bring the parameter called maximum flow declination rate (MFDR) up which makes the sound more cutting, pingy and buzzy.
If I'm gonna describe the sounds, reduced density sounds restrained while fuller density sounds clear and free. Reducing the density limits the maximum amount of metal you can have, so that may be the relationship you're hearing.
Cheers,
Ivan
@@RockVoxYT Thanks Ivan. Loved that. (: However, I've got a final question regarding that. You said that the amount of density is more related to that 'tilt'. Wouldn't it change the pitch theoretically?
You're welcome! I love nerding out like this!
There's more to pitch than just vocal fold length. You are right that stretching the vocal folds by tilting the thyroid cartilage would raise the pitch if all other parameters stayed equal. However, vocal fold tension and subglottic pressure all play a part in pitch regulation. So you basically raise the pitch by tilting and stretching the vocal folds, but then lower it with other means. There's an MRI study out that has indeed shown longer vocal fold length in reduced density compared to the same pitch in fuller density.
@@RockVoxYT I see. Thanks. However, that brings me to my question again. I mean, if the metallic sound has to do with how much the borders of the vocal cords (beef) are engaged during the phonation; the CQ has to do with how much they stay closed in a cycle (be it 'metallic' or not); and 'tilting' + sometimes breath support regulate the pitch, what's "density" exactly? Thanks again. (:
In terms of auditory perception, it's about whether the sound is restrained or clear. In terms of physiology, it's about whether the thyroid is tilted or not.
Again, there is more to pitch regulation than just stretching the vocal folds. So, I wouldn't get too hung up on the idea that tilting is just about changing the pitch. You can change the amount of vocal fold tension with the same vocal fold length by engaging both the muscles that shorten the vocal folds (TA) and the muscles that stretch them (CT). Increasing the tension raises the pitch as well. Subglottic pressure also changes the pitch. If you work with beginner singers, you will notice that every time you ask them to sing louder they will also go higher in pitch. That's because subglottic pressure controls both.
19:17 Chris Isaak