Q: what is the cost? A: well its really simple (20 minutes later, no answer) its not about the cost of the material its about the process and we've been doing it for six years and its really low" Non-answers. Not familiar with this specific product or the science behind it but the way its talked about makes me distrust it. If its a viable battery solution state the facts including current manufacturing costs with precision and then projections about what it might cost in the near future and any potential short term further capabilities of the tech and chemistry. Suspect blowing smoke here.
17:25 HUH??!! What is he TALKING about?? Carbon-14 (half-life 5000 yr) has essentially NOTHING to do with this. And this guy represents a company that is ALL ABOUT CARBON? Something isn't right here. At first I thought this might just be a nit, but the more I think about it, the less sure I am.
There”s a lot of strange comments like that throughout he’s amazed at the price of methane -oh, cool- as a cheap source of Carbon which is… weird, because anything organic is a cheaper source of carbon, and somehow doesn’t mention he could sell the very valuable H2 byproduct. He’s overlooking all the difficult processes in the chain. That guy doesn't sound like an engineer who cares about the idiosyncrasies of industrial chemistry.
there is also an interesting application as a buffer for fast chargers. that extreme power density is not needed but for trucks you want to charge with 1MW without putting too much strain on the grid. if you have a crazy high cycle life, it is perfect for grid/charging buffers.
KInd of like the Tesla Mega packs. They're about the size of shipping containers and installed at power substations. The power packs and mega packs are supposed to be using the 4680 lithium iron phosphate batteries.
@@corporalpunishment1133 usually when you have a contract with your electricity provider you pay for the electricity and the maximum capacity of your connection. example: if you have 10 chargers with 1MW maximum power, you have to pay for the MWh that you are consuming but you also have to pay for the maximum possible power of 10MW. and even if no one is charging, you have to pay for the possibility of using 10MW. because your provider needs to build the grid that can handle 10MW peaks. if you order a connection to the power grid of only 2MW instead of 10MW and connect a huge battery buffer to support 10 trucks that charge 10MW, you still only draw 2 MW from the grid, the rest comes from the battery. you then pay less to the energy provider because the peak demand is only 2MW. that mean less stress (or strain?) on the grid.
As a physicist and engineer, most of the discussion of technical details seems very credible to me, from "what is possible" standpoint, though obviously all of the issues to make it commercially feasible have not been demonstrated to be solved. Some of the issues have been demonstrated and some are still aspirational. Overall, I am left with the impression that the company has a real chance at a commercial product that will be valuable. One data point I really want to see is volume density compared to LiIon (as opposed to weight density); I suspect it compares favorably but I want to see it. If they are able to prove out all the other manufacturing and scability issues at the demonstrated 150 wh/kg or higher, I think they likely can produce at a lower final price (price at which further scaling doesn't produce much savings) than LiIon or LFP. It also seems likely that they could replace lead acid eventually since the price points are already coming together and lead acid's remaining value in vehicles is the ability to produce large currents in a small volume, and this chemistry certainly beats lead acid on that and every other spec. As with all the other new and partially developed battery claims, the devil is in the details and "if we can do ..." is not as certain as true believers want it to be. I like their scaling approach, coin-pouch-future and believe they have a higher likelihood of success than many other hyped companies.
Lead acid is able to produce a large amount of current for cranking the starter/engine then get quickly recharged by the alternator (so can lithium) but lead acid holds up much better to hot & cold weather/temperature fluctuations, doesn't need a BMS & less risk of being damaged or overheating fire. Which is why lead acid is still used for car batteries VS lithium, so I think lead acid still has a few remaining values. The big downside of LA is it's weight/low power density, & draining it past a certain point will quickly ruin it. As for CMG I think it's bogus hype like Theranos & Elizabeth Holmes. Comments are turned off on the CMG YT channel & they also advertise/sell black radiator spray paint but for air conditioner condensers (that many automotive shops sell) claiming it to be something it's not. Saying it'll dissipate more heat & lower AC bills. I can't imagine some galaxy brains who are building a battery that rivals Lifepo4 needing to sell some misleading radiator spray paint.
@@michaelbrinks8089 Magnis Energy/C4V makes a battery similar to LifePO4 that uses mostly manganese instead of iron. Only 3% capacity loss after 2600 cycles. They also 100% own a high purity graphite mine. But if GMG can scale their graphene production, watch out.
They have already made CR2032 coin cells on a pilot manufacturing line using production type processes in the key manufacturing steps and shipped those cells to third parties that are potential customers. So if those organization isn't out there saying that they don't get the type of performance that GMG says it should be, then I think we can make a provisional assumption that the performance of these batteries is close enough to GMG's representation.
Excellent interview and great Q&A! Would have liked to have an answer for the nominal operational temperatures for both the charging and discharging of this Al-ion battery, and I shall follow your links and see if the answer is provided there. I think that the variation of observed temperatures on earth, -20 degrees Celsius to +60C, and even greater in extremes in some locations and seasons, we would still require some means of temperature control unless the Al-graphene battery is capable of operating at these extreme temperature ranges. Thanks for the informative content you provide! (Addendum: I have sent my inquiry to GMG now, so let us hope for a reply ASAP) You have got me quite excited, see?
Take a look at this: The new battery cells are claimed to deliver far more power density than current lithium-ion batteries, without the cooling, heating or rare-earth problems they face. “So far there are no temperature problems. Twenty percent of a lithium-ion battery pack (in a vehicle) is to do with cooling them. There is a very high chance that we won’t need that cooling or heating at all,” Nicol claimed. “It does not overheat and it nicely operates below zero so far in testing. “They don’t need circuits for cooling or heating, which currently accounts for about 80kg in a 100kWh pack.” Source: www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltaylor/2021/05/13/ev-range-breakthrough-as-new-aluminum-ion-battery-charges-60-times-faster-than-lithium-ion/
Marketing loves a wow, with a Aluminium Graphine which can discharge at such a high rate, GMG should consider building for show, a drag car, which could break world records 🙂
hopefully they can get this in the hands of somebody who can scale the prototypes up into mass production for an economically competing price sometimes very soon ! I guess the key to the process is making the graphene for low enough cost
I am getting so confused now with all these new battery technologies now. The latest buzz is the Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP) and Lithium Manganese Iron Phosphate (LMFP) batteries which EVs like Tesla and Ford are adding to their battery packs. I am curious what this Graphene Aluminum-Ion batteries compare to the LMFP batteries that are coming out.
Going by their Financial reports, they haven't sold or produced anything yet. Is this company selling graphene? because its super expensive, but their financials don't show it, therefore I ask what do these guys do? Something doesn't sound right.
There is plenty on the market investment beggars praying on simpletons, teenagers with a bit money and grandeur investor delusions, people who dont know what to do with their money... So far we can see a nice website and an interview by a guy who seems to suffer from chest infection.
@@thomasputko1080 I have been watching this space for a while, and this interview hasn't shed anything new at all. Craig still talks the same stuff he has said for the last 12months. His financials show nothing. He doesn't mention TXR which should be a killer and its concerning because they said they have tested the product even in Dubai. Yet there is no information no sales. Its over 12 months since an LOI with Openia Dubai. and not a peep on results. The owner of TXR is someone else, it's not even GMG, so I smell a rat. Hope they aren't scamming investors with pipe dreams. I also looked and 3 original Directors have left and Craig has cashed in over 1mil in shares, why at such crucial times and opportunity? it doesn't make sense
@@vlad69 smells from a mile... yet Cleanerwatt decided to make a vid. And he doesnt answer direct question if he has any benefit from GMG. Thia whole thing smells like a setup to get some regular folks to be hyped up and invest some money. Plus this chest infection fellow is used to talking... once he starts there is no end to it.
I can see a lot of potential for this battery becoming part of the structure of the vehicle. You could literally insert pouch batteries into the roof, doors and body of the vehicle to increase the energy density. I even wonder if you could sandwich the battery between layers of composites to make a really efficient lightweight vehicle like the Aptera. Combined with solar, this would make the Aptera even better than it already is. I can also see a lot of potential for Australia, which has large reserves of both LNG and bauxite, to either manufacture these batteries here, or export the minerals to the US to take advantage of the free trade relationship with the US, in conjunction with the new EV incentive.
Higher density means less batteries are required, I would prefer a few battery modules that can be easily switched out, so a decent second hand electric car market can thrive, I don't want an Iphone car.
@@michaelandrews4783 There is that advantage to easily accessible modular packs, the drawback to it is weight distribution. Both are obviously on a relative scalar basis. The easier & more convenient it is to access the packs; The greater likelihood that it will affect the weight distribution of the vehicle. Clearly there are ways of mitigating the issue, it's been a key factor in vehicle design for ages what with how heavy an average IC Engine is. I agree that use of easy to access modular packs for average consumer level vehicle's would be the better option. Not only for a more robust second hand market, also to be able to design and manufacture less expensive vehicles to begin with. Even though they claim the packs don't require cooling, using a simple flow intake air cooling system fora modules mounted in the front or rear of the vehicle, where a typical IC Engine or it's Radiator would be, would be far easier to do. Whereas use of the cell's in structtual design, the panelling and even distributed in slightly larger packs near the wheel's would be better suited to proformance & race vehicles. As they will be able to maximise cell density, while maintaining a more consistent weight distribution, potentially with weight reductions as well.
Looks like perfect renewable energy storage solutions at current density but also with so High charging rate having 50kWh battery pack able to be charged 0-100% at 350kWh rate that would take around 9 minutes is also good news for most EV drivers.
Buying Cryptocurrency doesn't make you a winner, but the ability to make profit daily out of your capital is what makes you a winner. Stop depending on market price to make profit, choose trading over holding.
I'm new here and I really want to know some important things about him before i can choose to invest with him. >Does he offer mentorship, lectures and tutorials? >Is it possible to start with $5,000? I don't have much.
@Clifford Bauer Thanks, I also needed his info too, a friend once told me about Jesse Powell then I wasn't interested but I think I'm giving it a try now
No use wasting talk about that which does not exist........Even when I purchase My new Lyrik, I have Zero say in which batteries It will use.............Paul
I'm all for the right product for the right purpose. What market would this be best for? Electric vehicles? Consumer grade rechargeable batteries? Home power walls? For a home power storage solution, I care more about safety and the total cost of the power storage. For an EV, I'd care about energy density and weight. We got a lot of great info on how it works and how they hope to improve the tech, but not a lot on what market segments they've targeted for the final products.
I can see these batteries in electronics of all sorts being achievable soon. But home and grid storage seem just as achievable really. The current energy density seems perfectly fine for powerwall and industrial/grid storage. The scale of these would be even larger than in EV's. Even if the batteries don't wind up in EV's, the batteries would be awesome for storing energy to charge them. The fast charge/discharge, low resistance characteristics of these batteries make them look like the best out there to store wind and solar energy. I can't help but see it this way.
@@bryanstrom812 I tend to agree from the presentation. Safer, more efficient, more cycles, better durability and electrical tolerances from less internal heat. Sounds like a good solution for home power storage from solar installations, and larger regional grid battery storage especially.
@@Kingramze Yup. Many who are familiar with GMG are salivating over these batteries being in EV's. I am too, a little, but I have a napkin. But if these get used for GRID STORAGE...I'm gonna need way more napkins, if not a towel!
@@bryanstrom812 when the man made the comment about grid being the limiting factor and that you could trickle charge a battery all day then plug it into your ev and fast charge it he didn't mention the type and size of this battery. It seems to me it would need to be say 4 times bigger energy stored and at a higher voltage as they will tend to equalize each other durring this fast charge. 2 identical batteries 1 full charge and 1 discharged put together will have the net result of both batteries just below half taking into consideration losses due to resistance and heat generated. I think it is correct that these batteries will be perfect for wind and solar energy storage. I dont remember if they discussed discharge rates and capacity but for off grid or power wall it should be great for individual consumers plus just as good for the utilities and energy storage using massive battery stations. Perhaps paired with large capacitors for surge demand.
@@Big.Ron1 It doesn't need capacitors because of its rapid charge/discharge rate. Capacitors only make good mediators when the charge/discharge rate of accompanying batteries is low. This battery is its own capacitor.
Superb interview and very informative on why the world needs to leave behind the hysteresis life problems that previous battery technology is limited by. Very impressed by Craig Nichol being able to explain in a succinct understandable way a complex technological advancement. The one concern not discussed was the legal ownership of the technology and how that might affect future products and marketing?
Rio Tinto in my country is synonymous with "destroys our cleanest agricultural land for Lithium and Boron". I am skeptical that they would really help out a technology which would cut their margin on Lithium sales.
They already supply aluminium, reducing one of their operational arms will be cheaper by leaving off mining lithium. The margin for high-purity aluminium is high and will get better, and it's a technology they don't have to spend money on cos it's already mature.
everyone is talking about density, and cost. missing out on the bigger issue, longevity. Lithium Ion is terrible for the environment, both its production and disposal. But most environmentalist live in large cities, that have decimated eco systems, and rely on everyone else to import food. And use carbon as a bludgeon against said people to mask their hypocrisy.
Graphene aluminium batteries we are hearing about this from last 5 years no futhur development might be because of corporate s who want spoil people for money
Those batteries packs look similar to the ones I use for remote control airplanes and drone which are Lithium Polymer LiPo Battery Cells but when they get hot, they tend to swell because the gases produce can't be release like 4680 batteries. So, I was wondering if AL-Ion battery pack will swell up like Lithium Polymer LiPo Battery Cells or will it have some way to vent gas produce by heat?
Whether they will swell or not depends on the electrolyte and on charging temperature. I suspect there will be no problem with this. What's more, aluminium doesn't present growing dendrites problem like lithium or sodium metals do. That means no inner short circuits and therefore no catastrophic breakdowns. Also, aluminium relatively is nonreactive metal compared to lithium or sodium metals.
I would love to know what the best battery is for off grid living in say campers and rv’s using solar? Wonder if this tech is going to address that since now most of us are using Lithium or what we think is the best is life pro 4 batteries. Will Solar charge this new battery faster and produce the amount of power we need in a reasonable size?
WOW!!! I would love to have their aluminum grapheme batteries in a Hyundai Ioniq 6!!! I wonder how many years before their tech able to be used in the aftermarket field for ev’s. I would love to see that.
So, what is still needed to achieve double the voltage per cell or greater, to make the Al-Ion battery clearly competitive with Li-Ion on specific energy and energy density? Likewise, what is the corresponding energy density and cycle-life for the Al-Ion battery at C/5, C/4, C/3, C/2, 1C, 2C, 3C, 4C, 5C and 6C rates. Additionally, please let us know what the energy density (specific and volumetric) would be if operated over a more reasonable/practical voltage range, like 1.6V to 1.0V, rather than 2.4V to 0.5V, for comparability with Li-Ion which is typically operated from a high of 4.2V (fully charged) to a low of 3.4V (fully discharged). Note: Low-cost graphene could also improve the energy and power density of Li-Ion cells as well.
I smell a rat! If these guys have an economical method for producing graphene from unfiltered methane or really methane of any quality, it's like the proverbial person who develops a better mousetrap; the world will beat a path to their door...and beat their door down. The world will want to license/replicate/steal this process because of the myriad uses there are for large volume graphene. Their insistence on keeping the process from methane to completed battery in one facility is another "tell" here, somewhat like the guys who claim to have perpetual motion machines, but want to keep the machine in a particular location or in a special box. Graphene itself is about as delicate as a Samurai sword, so I don't buy the idea that it has to be so carefully protected that it must be encapsulated in a battery as part of a continuous process. Further, if this battery can handle such immense charging currents, what's wrong with using some of that graphene for charging cables, possibly coming directly off of a transformer or off of some of these high capacity carbon transistors used for AC to DC conversion. It wouldn't have to be pure, level voltage DC, but stepped DC. obviously, I am talking about something more than a bit larger than coin batteries. The bottom line here is that the world is in desperate need of a continuous, economical process for manufacturing graphene in widths larger than thread form. He sort of gave away the story when he said that the world didn't have a need for stronger concrete, one of the stupidest statements that I have ever heard. What he was saying was effectively that they couldn't produce graphene in sufficient quantity economically enough to be used in concrete. Millions of tons of high strength steel are used in prestressed concrete every year and vast amounts of it are deteriorating as the concrete cracks and admits water. Huge bridges in Brazil and Italy have fallen because of this. Since graphene is 300 times the strength of steel, don't you think that every maker of prestressed concrete beams would be slavering at GMG's door to get graphene for their beams? Maybe GMG can make enough graphene for coin cells and maybe not. Pouch cells would be an order of magnitude or two greater in production and producing any form of batteries for the transportation industry would probably be at least six orders greater for graphene production. GMG is a mouse and the companies that make batteries in volume are ravenous beasts. If GMG really has a process for producing massive amounts of graphene in a continuous and economical process, then they need to license their patents and get out of the way so that the world can benefit. If not, then they will be caught out as scammers and the world will swiftly kick them aside as such. Good or bad, they cannot ride this for much further before it begins to ride them. Graphene in quantity could replace copper and aluminum in most wiring, creating transmission lines that aren't vulnerable to EMP. DOD would die to get its hands on such a product for a thousand reasons, not to mention the fact that it would be much lighter than current wiring. And most of us have seen at least dozens or maybe even thousands of articles on possible uses for graphene, if only it could be produced in volume, economically.
@@everettlwilliamsii3740 Sigh, you exposed yourself. No graphene is not 300X stronger than steel. It is not even 10X stronger than steel. In fact, Graphene is about ~5X for common cheaply produced HT steel. Depending on alloy, Graphene is only 2X as strong as the best steel. Graphene in concrete has the problem of adhesion. Then you utterly lost all credibility saying cables will not absorb EMP if made from Graphene. You probably read some article somewhere saying graphene in concrete would make a faraday cage.... Well yes, this is also true if you add steel corkscrews and weld tie a steel mesh over your rebar structure as has been done for every ammunition depot storage bunker for going on 100 years now.
Double voltage, although mentioned as possible in future, is completely unnecessary. Just connect two batteries in series and you have voltage of standard lithium battery. Yes they have reached the energy density similar to what LiFePO batteries have, but that is completely usable for mobility, since charging at the very high C will make charging of similar if not shorter times than gas tank filling possible... and if they have really cheap graphene production process then this will be absolute gamechanger for energy storage. So called renewables may experience extreme boom in usability.
@@everettlwilliamsii3740, I think you may be mistaking graphene for carbon nanotubes.... Graphene used in concrete would be to enhance its compressive strength (which concrete already has an abundance of), not its shear strength (which is why we use steel reinforcements). So even with added graphene, steel would still be required. Your bit about EMP proofing transmission lines with graphene is very odd. I’ve never heard such claims and couldn’t imagine the science behind it unless you’re using it to construct some sort of giant faraday cage around the entire grid which you can do with other materials and would be unrealistic with any of them... Also, mass production of graphene is simply not that far fetched. Idk, man, read a book perhaps...?🤷🏾♂️
@@petersvancarek Peter - the higher energy density of Li-Ion batteries relates directly to the higher voltage at which the Li-ion battery operates; twice the voltage => twice the energy density, all else being equal.
Lithium was adopted and mass produced 15 years later after patent expires. Thus the same can be said of all new battery tech, as no manufacturer likes to pay licensing fees.
@_____ , if you were to abolish patent law, what would incentivize technology advancement? Do you really think there are that many people out there willing to self finance schooling, RnD, mass production, etc when they have zero safe guards in place to protect their intellectual property? I think you over estimate our philanthropic nature....
Positives: potential looks good. Reduced charging times, better power density (he quoted 70C for charge but no figure for discharge?), mature manufacturing process. Negatives - graphene is expensive to manufacture, product may still have many years of development before commercial viability. Some things didn’t make sense to me? Craig’s quoting a lower internal resistance but also says the battery is about the same round trip efficiency as lithium ion. If it’s the same efficiency then it generates about the same amount of waste heat. That’s the only place that energy can go. Waste heat will cause the internal resistance to rise and more waste heat - there’s no way around that without cooling. So imagine you’re taking in more regen. That equals more heat. You’re going to need a liquid cooling system in a hot climate. He also listed the cycle count on lithium ion at 600 - 1000 cycles. They would be very old figures. LiFe batteries are generally between 3000 and 6000 cycles, modern LMNC should last at least 1200 cycles and quality cells can go 1500 - 2000 cycles. I wish them all the best but they seem a long way from EV battery manufacture.
Finally a UA-camr that actually puts links to these new technologies!!!! Great to see someone who’s diligently helping us get access to these issues and helping spread their efforts into the market!! It’s a shame “Just have a think” couldn’t THINK ABOUT US like you have!
And hemp's more popular cousin can alter your sense of time so your car appears to be going a lot faster than it is thus saving on fuel because you'll be going slower.
Too much emphasis on rapid charging. Li-ion can charge fast enough for EVs, although it takes some effort. And who needs to charge a phone in 5 minutes? Related to this, where the higher POWER density of Al-ion could really help is in something like the new Tesla Roadster, or more extremely, a drag racer. Needing a big honking pack just to get the power really does suck.
How about graphene infused heat shield tiles for Starship. It was mentioned it could be used to make very strong concrete and defuses heat. Could it survive reentry? What about a heat resistant spray on coating instead of tiles?
Yes, good idea; especially since the Parker Solar Probe ventures so close to the sun that it's protected from the fierce heat by a 4.5 inch thick shield of carbon composite.
Graphite-based heat tiles is what's been used since the first Shuttle. Graphene has been shown to be better, and is waiting on cheap mass manufacture of graphene--and we're getting there.
Smell a lot like Buzzword Bingo. Aluminium may be quite a common metal but it is still rather energy intensive to extract it. Extracting natural gas releases quite a lot a carbon or are they "capturing" that carbon and selling this as carbon offset.
I would like to work for these people. I am generally extremely critical in my analysis and see this has great potential. Also I am surprised at the time I watched this that only 33 thousand views had been recorded. Also Craig talked about his experience with natural gas shipping and I could not help but think why not ship energy in the form of battery barges and just park them near a city for use. There are places in the world where there is an excess of solar or geothermal or wind etc. Perhaps even containers the power so it could be delivered inland to remote grids. Got to be cheeper than high voltage lines.
Because the energy density of liquid hydrocarbons is and will always be far greater than any battery technology that we will ever come up with. So it will forever be cheaper to ship energy in the form of hydrocarbons to the points of use and then run high voltage transmission lines with relatively low loss to the farthest users of their grid. Ships dock at large ports. Wherever there’s a port, there is no need for large battery packs to power a grid. However, you may be on to something in the event of natural disasters as a temporary relief measure....🤔
Coming from someone who is about to submit their thesis on Al-ion batteries, they are being dishonest about the energy density. People tend to not incorporate the weight of electrolyte needed in order to get the capacity from the graphene. Because you're using AlCl4^- ions rather than Al3+ to intercalate in the cathode it means you consume electrolyte, and need a certain weight of electrolyte per weight of graphene. The other huge issue is the loading of graphene tends to be well below 1 mg/cm^2, whereas practical cells require upwards of 20 mg/cm^2. When you try load too high, the performance drops hugely. That said, these could potentially be used as energy dense supercapacitors. I just hope they've found a viable cheaper ionic liquid to use rather than EMImCl. I suggest Et3NHCl or GdmCl
I want to know how much stronger concrete is with graphene. Why? Is it strong enough to build a space elevator? That is the super-grail for escape from earth. It would cut the cost to allow orbiting cities where mass transport rockets would be cheaper to build for colonizing our system.
Latest testing data has demonstrated a calculated energy density that has increased by 93% from 150-160 Wh/kg to 290-310 Wh/Kg since the last battery update on the 22nd of June 2021
20C charging rate is crazy, but what about delivery? 100kw/h car battery can be charged in 1 hour with ~100kw power delivery, if we need to charge it in 5 minutes, which charger and what flexible cable can deliver 1MW safely? What cabling needs to be used inside car to withstand these amps?
What happens with fast charging? Say the battery can store 75 kWh and charge in 8 minutes, how much power is needed? Around 0.5 MW ! Cool. And is this realistic to have installed in every station? It is say 5000 V and 100 A. Not exactly what we would like in our carport. So, what to do? Convert to hydrogen.
Def not hydrogen, I thought everyone had moved on from such an inefficient & necessarily corporate-giant-dependency for cars. It's simply not viable. Big things yes
So it's half the density. He says it is high, but 150 is their battery, but the industry is running from 260-270 wh/kg. They are beating lead acid batteries, which is 50-100.
Concerned that they have enough money to build that pilot plant and design and build a production plant. They need more financing and they need to go as fast as they can to get this battery out without sacrificing its performance. Would love to see a commercial battery available in volume by the end of 2025.
The longer cycle life of the batteries allow for the batteries to be used regularly for Power to Grid/Everything purposes without unacceptable degradation of the battery. This will result in huge savings as you will no longer need separate EV/Grid batteries that result from the shorter lifespans of Lithium batteries!
ALWAYS wait a year before buying ANY new tech. I like the pouch better than the round battery . We here in Thailand have heat & water so lithium is problematic here .
Another hype ad about vaporware battery technology that will never hit the market and is used to try to get investment cash. I have seen hundreds of those for 40 years now, and during that time we have only seen NiMh and then Li-ion. And that's it. So, no thanks. Go make other vids.
Coin cells... things get a lot more complicated and difficult when you scale up dimensions and production capacity at several order of magnitude. All new batteries are good asap, but until big capacity production at a competitive costs, this are only good after researches products. I hope they can scale up fast.
The fundamental question he did not answer " how do you manufacture your graphene?" I'm nervous...people want stronger concrete....where is this plant making this graphene...as he speaks I get really nervous to disbelieving... ..so the voltage out the pouch...sounds like another Trevor Milton to me...
why do men wear those ear pieces that make them look like they are wearing old lady earrings? it's about 30 points off his masculinity! In the wimpy range.
150-160 Wh/kg (should improve in the future). Little to no cooling should not be necessary, so when it comes to pack level energy density, it will actually be pretty close to existing Li-Ion tech in terms of Wh/kg at the pack level.
Battery-powered electric vehicles are phenomenally efficient. Depending on the model, they can boast a well-to-wheel efficiency of around 70 to 80 per cent. By comparison, a hydrogen fuel cell-powered electric vehicle (FCEV) is positively parsimonious, with an overall efficiency of somewhere around 30 to 35 per cent
EV's are not that efficient beginning to end if you average the efficiency of the power creation. You or your source are cheating the numbers. I do agree though, hydrogen is way off compared to EVs.
A well-to-wheel efficiency of 70% violates the laws of physics. You can't have a WtW efficiency higher than the efficiency of any given stage. A theoretically perfect (Betz limit) wind turbine is ~59% efficient. Real ones are around 20%. A utility grade solar panel is ~10-15% efficient. Upper limits for PV are complicated, but 40% is a fair estimate. A typical modern natural gas power plant is ~60% efficient. Ignoring cogeneration benefits, the thermodynamic upper limit is ~70% (heat engines). Grid transmission losses are another 5-10%. Electric motors can be 97% efficient, let's say 99% just to be unrealistically generous. Associated variable frequency drive, inverter, and other power electronics have an efficiency of at best ~90%. So you can't even get a well to tank efficiency of 70%, let alone well to wheels. Before we even consider the battery losses, you can't get above 50%.
@@thealienrobotanthropologist Your figures are ok; but, burning fuel engines are less than 40% efficient, at best. The benefits of electric vehicles are their constant rate of efficiency, not just some of the time; expended energy can be, partially, recaptured during regeneration going down hill and during braking; noxious gases during operation, none; less aerodynamic drag requiring less energy for the same performance. The electric generators, for charging, operate at constant speed, which is the most efficient and least polluting, and their polluting gases can be more easily captured and dealt with.
@@artsnow8872 While Otto cycle engines are less efficient than combined cycle electric power plants, turbocharged diesel engines are slightly more efficient. Non-combined cycle power plants are roughly the same as Otto cycle engines, with a lot of variation in each category. Subtract 20% off the efficiency of the best combined cycle electric plant to account for distribution and grid storage losses, then also power electronics, battery, and motor losses and suddenly the efficiency over a badly designed Otto cycle engine is rather modest. EVs aren't intrinsically lower drag than ICE vehicles. That tends to be the case because it's more important for EVs, but there's no reason the same couldn't be done with ICE. You just need to persuade the marketing and styling people. EVs are significantly heavier than ICE and thus have more rolling resistance. They also tend to have wider tires to support the greater loads, which is a surprisingly significant aerodynamic disadvantage. Cabin heating in cold environments is another significant disadvantage for EVs. This effectively lets ICE engines operate in a cogeneration capacity vs an EV running a heat pump for heating. This actually can put the best (turbocharged Atkinson or HCCI) Otto variant engines ahead of EVs in energy efficiency. They may have bad emissions, but turbocharged diesel engines are the most energy efficient well-wheels solution available. EV efficiency is not constant either. With the exception of the Porsche Taycan, they use fixed speed gear boxes, but the required torque varies widely throughout driving, leading to gigantic inefficiencies. Imagine driving an ICE car in first gear at all times. This is the price of the great acceleration EVs are known for. There are linear torque curve electric motors that could avoid this issue, but they're extremely inefficient and not suitable for any demanding task. While it was a big problem with older ICE engines, modern engines with a host of emissions technologies aren't that different from burning the same fuel in an electric power plant. Electric power plants benefit from natural gas being much cleaner to burn than gasoline or diesel fuel. Burning coal is worse though. Furthermore, the pollution from solar or wind plus battery based grid storage is roughly at parity with combined cycle natural gas plants (minus cogeneration benefits). In order to reduce pollution from electricity generation, we have to either keep enough natural gas to avoid grid storage or adopt nuclear instead of grid storage. The smart solution would be thorium reactors plus a few fast breeder reactors (just to eliminate the nuclear waste produced by the 1950s and 1960s era antique nuclear designs). In order for EVs to make sense environmentally, the electricity can't be generated from our current mix of sources. Otherwise we'd benefit far, far more from getting people to drive sensible cars instead of luxury tank SUVs and monster trucks. A Tesla Model X P100D, to say nothing of the Cyber Truck, Hummer EV, etc. are worse for the environment than a basic ICE economy sedan or hatchback unless we switch to mostly or entirely nuclear energy. Hybrid vehicles really would make the most sense until the electric grid is converted to nuclear.
Thermal XR is not GMG tech, they are a middle man and authorised distributor, and not even for Australia. Their batteries are years away from commercialisation.
You have to look for density at pack level as plenty of mass comes from thermal management. Myself I'd prefer to have smaller battery that charges at constant 250-350kW instead of more capacity but slower. This would make stops more frequent but very short.
What pairs with amazing batteries? Great motors how do we get better electric motors? Iron nitride magnets with stronger magnetic fields make motors lighter and smaller and they do not need rare earth minerals. Niron Magnetics makes them let's get them into every EV possible.
Rather use it for my home battery than a grid battery. Could you use the heat in a heat engine to recapture more energy? Would you get enough heat out to justify the cost of that modification?
This seems like a lot of bs. They're making these prototype batteries by hand and saying they are going to scale up to coins while talking a load of rubbish about car batteries - which they are wholly unlikely to ever be able to produce because they do not deal at all in the end of the market, so no supply chain is in place for this company Then he claims graphene is expensive. Um, it graphene LITERALLY the most abundant material in the universe. Graphene oxide can be made at home for pennies and can be found on Amazon for $1.23/lb. Granted, it's not the ultra-purified variety they claim to want to work with, but *m not so sure that this "ultra-purified" thing is even an issue at all, given the nature of graphene oxide. It's very pure to begin with. They are doing coatings. FULL STOP. Don't give your cash to this man, bottom line.
They are still pretty early in the process, but the tech has a lot of promise (more than most new battery tech in my opinion) - they are not reinventing the wheel, but just improving an existing technology.
@@thomasputko1080 I think the better question is to determine what the University of Queensland gets out of their deal with GMG, because they developed the technology, GMG is just commercializing and improving on their existing work
@@TheLargestBlock and this is really confusing. I dont know anything about this university but I cannot find plausible explanation why they would associate themselves with this start up - this could damage their reputation as uni name is the only thing he really has. There is literally nothing else there - well apart grandiose statements. Another thing is very loud silence from Cleanerwatt to my querry. Simple yes or no would suffice... but Cleanerwatt chooses not to answear. 😁 Dont get me wrong - Im not saying anything - im just careful and suspicious of any wonder material. Especially that there is little evidence to support it. Someone here as well checked financial statements of this company and it shows very little trading. For now it looks like lots of hype to get the silly investors put their little savings in...
@@TheLargestBlock GMG seeks out and maintains a lot of nebulous relationships and leverages them to the fullest. You look into them and see they're either paid associations (Stanford) or meaningless LOIs
The atomic weight or lithium is 3 while the aluminum is 13 more than 4 times so the Power density of aluminum can't be higher than lithium. How does this explain .
We have so many “game changers” nobody knows what game to play.
Haha...
funny stuff. agreed. there are like 15 game changer batteries. guess you follow / invest in all of em.
So true! Exciting times but only time will tell what works.
To me the real problem is lead time. They say that some new technology has been created and ten years later it's still not in production.
Very true the damn game changes every day, and here I thought picking the right crypto was challenging.
Q: what is the cost? A: well its really simple (20 minutes later, no answer) its not about the cost of the material its about the process and we've been doing it for six years and its really low"
Non-answers. Not familiar with this specific product or the science behind it but the way its talked about makes me distrust it. If its a viable battery solution state the facts including current manufacturing costs with precision and then projections about what it might cost in the near future and any potential short term further capabilities of the tech and chemistry. Suspect blowing smoke here.
Look at his website. Projection: notably cheaper than Li-ion as well as much safer.
17:25 HUH??!! What is he TALKING about?? Carbon-14 (half-life 5000 yr) has essentially NOTHING to do with this. And this guy represents a company that is ALL ABOUT CARBON? Something isn't right here. At first I thought this might just be a nit, but the more I think about it, the less sure I am.
There”s a lot of strange comments like that throughout he’s amazed at the price of methane -oh, cool- as a cheap source of Carbon which is… weird, because anything organic is a cheaper source of carbon, and somehow doesn’t mention he could sell the very valuable H2 byproduct. He’s overlooking all the difficult processes in the chain.
That guy doesn't sound like an engineer who cares about the idiosyncrasies of industrial chemistry.
there is also an interesting application as a buffer for fast chargers. that extreme power density is not needed but for trucks you want to charge with 1MW without putting too much strain on the grid. if you have a crazy high cycle life, it is perfect for grid/charging buffers.
Very true!
KInd of like the Tesla Mega packs. They're about the size of shipping containers and installed at power substations. The power packs and mega packs are supposed to be using the 4680 lithium iron phosphate batteries.
What do you mean when you say “without putting too much strain on the grid”?
@@corporalpunishment1133 usually when you have a contract with your electricity provider you pay for the electricity and the maximum capacity of your connection. example: if you have 10 chargers with 1MW maximum power, you have to pay for the MWh that you are consuming but you also have to pay for the maximum possible power of 10MW. and even if no one is charging, you have to pay for the possibility of using 10MW. because your provider needs to build the grid that can handle 10MW peaks. if you order a connection to the power grid of only 2MW instead of 10MW and connect a huge battery buffer to support 10 trucks that charge 10MW, you still only draw 2 MW from the grid, the rest comes from the battery. you then pay less to the energy provider because the peak demand is only 2MW. that mean less stress (or strain?) on the grid.
As a physicist and engineer, most of the discussion of technical details seems very credible to me, from "what is possible" standpoint, though obviously all of the issues to make it commercially feasible have not been demonstrated to be solved. Some of the issues have been demonstrated and some are still aspirational. Overall, I am left with the impression that the company has a real chance at a commercial product that will be valuable. One data point I really want to see is volume density compared to LiIon (as opposed to weight density); I suspect it compares favorably but I want to see it. If they are able to prove out all the other manufacturing and scability issues at the demonstrated 150 wh/kg or higher, I think they likely can produce at a lower final price (price at which further scaling doesn't produce much savings) than LiIon or LFP. It also seems likely that they could replace lead acid eventually since the price points are already coming together and lead acid's remaining value in vehicles is the ability to produce large currents in a small volume, and this chemistry certainly beats lead acid on that and every other spec. As with all the other new and partially developed battery claims, the devil is in the details and "if we can do ..." is not as certain as true believers want it to be. I like their scaling approach, coin-pouch-future and believe they have a higher likelihood of success than many other hyped companies.
Lead acid is able to produce a large amount of current for cranking the starter/engine then get quickly recharged by the alternator (so can lithium) but lead acid holds up much better to hot & cold weather/temperature fluctuations, doesn't need a BMS & less risk of being damaged or overheating fire. Which is why lead acid is still used for car batteries VS lithium, so I think lead acid still has a few remaining values. The big downside of LA is it's weight/low power density, & draining it past a certain point will quickly ruin it.
As for CMG I think it's bogus hype like Theranos & Elizabeth Holmes. Comments are turned off on the CMG YT channel & they also advertise/sell black radiator spray paint but for air conditioner condensers (that many automotive shops sell) claiming it to be something it's not. Saying it'll dissipate more heat & lower AC bills. I can't imagine some galaxy brains who are building a battery that rivals Lifepo4 needing to sell some misleading radiator spray paint.
@@michaelbrinks8089 You are silly.
@@andrewkaiser7203 You should invest all your money into GMG.
@@michaelbrinks8089 Not all of it. I'm invested in 25 companies. There will be several winners, but you never know for sure which ones will succeed.
@@michaelbrinks8089 Magnis Energy/C4V makes a battery similar to LifePO4 that uses mostly manganese instead of iron. Only 3% capacity loss after 2600 cycles. They also 100% own a high purity graphite mine.
But if GMG can scale their graphene production, watch out.
Sounds great and will be exciting to see an actual product using this battery technology that can be independently tested.
They have already made CR2032 coin cells on a pilot manufacturing line using production type processes in the key manufacturing steps and shipped those cells to third parties that are potential customers. So if those organization isn't out there saying that they don't get the type of performance that GMG says it should be, then I think we can make a provisional assumption that the performance of these batteries is close enough to GMG's representation.
Excellent interview and great Q&A! Would have liked to have an answer for the nominal operational temperatures for both the charging and discharging of this Al-ion battery, and I shall follow your links and see if the answer is provided there. I think that the variation of observed temperatures on earth, -20 degrees Celsius to +60C, and even greater in extremes in some locations and seasons, we would still require some means of temperature control unless the Al-graphene battery is capable of operating at these extreme temperature ranges. Thanks for the informative content you provide! (Addendum: I have sent my inquiry to GMG now, so let us hope for a reply ASAP) You have got me quite excited, see?
Great point - that would be good to know. Please post a follow-up comment when GMG gets back to you.
Take a look at this:
The new battery cells are claimed to deliver far more power density than current lithium-ion batteries, without the cooling, heating or rare-earth problems they face.
“So far there are no temperature problems. Twenty percent of a lithium-ion battery pack (in a vehicle) is to do with cooling them. There is a very high chance that we won’t need that cooling or heating at all,” Nicol claimed.
“It does not overheat and it nicely operates below zero so far in testing.
“They don’t need circuits for cooling or heating, which currently accounts for about 80kg in a 100kWh pack.”
Source: www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltaylor/2021/05/13/ev-range-breakthrough-as-new-aluminum-ion-battery-charges-60-times-faster-than-lithium-ion/
I doubt they will get back to you. We have sent many requests for information and no response. Outright unprofessional
Marketing loves a wow, with a Aluminium Graphine which can discharge at such a high rate, GMG should consider building for show, a drag car, which could break world records 🙂
F marketing
hopefully they can get this in the hands of somebody who can scale the prototypes up into mass production for an economically competing price sometimes very soon !
I guess the key to the process is making the graphene for low enough cost
I am getting so confused now with all these new battery technologies now. The latest buzz is the Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP) and Lithium Manganese Iron Phosphate (LMFP) batteries which EVs like Tesla and Ford are adding to their battery packs. I am curious what this Graphene Aluminum-Ion batteries compare to the LMFP batteries that are coming out.
Awesome... When will there be a first large scale factory?
Going by their Financial reports, they haven't sold or produced anything yet. Is this company selling graphene? because its super expensive, but their financials don't show it, therefore I ask what do these guys do? Something doesn't sound right.
There is nothing new to what Craig has said in his previous 12 months worth of webinars.
There is plenty on the market investment beggars praying on simpletons, teenagers with a bit money and grandeur investor delusions, people who dont know what to do with their money...
So far we can see a nice website and an interview by a guy who seems to suffer from chest infection.
@@thomasputko1080 I have been watching this space for a while, and this interview hasn't shed anything new at all. Craig still talks the same stuff he has said for the last 12months. His financials show nothing. He doesn't mention TXR which should be a killer and its concerning because they said they have tested the product even in Dubai. Yet there is no information no sales. Its over 12 months since an LOI with Openia Dubai. and not a peep on results. The owner of TXR is someone else, it's not even GMG, so I smell a rat. Hope they aren't scamming investors with pipe dreams. I also looked and 3 original Directors have left and Craig has cashed in over 1mil in shares, why at such crucial times and opportunity? it doesn't make sense
@@vlad69 smells from a mile... yet Cleanerwatt decided to make a vid. And he doesnt answer direct question if he has any benefit from GMG. Thia whole thing smells like a setup to get some regular folks to be hyped up and invest some money. Plus this chest infection fellow is used to talking... once he starts there is no end to it.
What about the collaboration with boesch, I have heard they are already in gear constructing the factory?
Please keep in touch with this company. This product is very exciting !
I can see a lot of potential for this battery becoming part of the structure of the vehicle. You could literally insert pouch batteries into the roof, doors and body of the vehicle to increase the energy density. I even wonder if you could sandwich the battery between layers of composites to make a really efficient lightweight vehicle like the Aptera. Combined with solar, this would make the Aptera even better than it already is. I can also see a lot of potential for Australia, which has large reserves of both LNG and bauxite, to either manufacture these batteries here, or export the minerals to the US to take advantage of the free trade relationship with the US, in conjunction with the new EV incentive.
Higher density means less batteries are required, I would prefer a few battery modules that can be easily switched out, so a decent second hand electric car market can thrive, I don't want an Iphone car.
@@michaelandrews4783 There is that advantage to easily accessible modular packs, the drawback to it is weight distribution.
Both are obviously on a relative scalar basis. The easier & more convenient it is to access the packs; The greater likelihood that it will affect the weight distribution of the vehicle.
Clearly there are ways of mitigating the issue, it's been a key factor in vehicle design for ages what with how heavy an average IC Engine is.
I agree that use of easy to access modular packs for average consumer level vehicle's would be the better option.
Not only for a more robust second hand market, also to be able to design and manufacture less expensive vehicles to begin with.
Even though they claim the packs don't require cooling, using a simple flow intake air cooling system fora modules mounted in the front or rear of the vehicle, where a typical IC Engine or it's Radiator would be, would be far easier to do.
Whereas use of the cell's in structtual design, the panelling and even distributed in slightly larger packs near the wheel's would be better suited to proformance & race vehicles.
As they will be able to maximise cell density, while maintaining a more consistent weight distribution, potentially with weight reductions as well.
Looks like perfect renewable energy storage solutions at current density but also with so High charging rate having 50kWh battery pack able to be charged 0-100% at 350kWh rate that would take around 9 minutes is also good news for most EV drivers.
Investing rightly today can save you a whole lot of stress in the nearest future•
@Christina Loewe HOW! I would really appreciate if you show me how to go about it.
Buying Cryptocurrency doesn't make you a winner, but the ability to make profit daily out of your capital is what makes you a winner. Stop depending on market price to make profit, choose trading over holding.
I'm new here and I really want to know some important things about him before i can choose to invest with him. >Does he offer mentorship, lectures and tutorials? >Is it possible to start with $5,000? I don't have much.
Yes of course, he is my mentor and I also attend his online classes weekly. $5,000 is good enough to start investment with him.
@Clifford Bauer Thanks, I also needed his info too, a friend once told me about Jesse Powell then I wasn't interested but I think I'm giving it a try now
No use wasting talk about that which does not exist........Even when I purchase My new Lyrik, I have Zero say in which batteries It will use.............Paul
I'm all for the right product for the right purpose. What market would this be best for? Electric vehicles? Consumer grade rechargeable batteries? Home power walls?
For a home power storage solution, I care more about safety and the total cost of the power storage. For an EV, I'd care about energy density and weight. We got a lot of great info on how it works and how they hope to improve the tech, but not a lot on what market segments they've targeted for the final products.
I can see these batteries in electronics of all sorts being achievable soon. But home and grid storage seem just as achievable really.
The current energy density seems perfectly fine for powerwall and industrial/grid storage. The scale of these would be even larger than in EV's. Even if the batteries don't wind up in EV's, the batteries would be awesome for storing energy to charge them.
The fast charge/discharge, low resistance characteristics of these batteries make them look like the best out there to store wind and solar energy. I can't help but see it this way.
@@bryanstrom812 I tend to agree from the presentation. Safer, more efficient, more cycles, better durability and electrical tolerances from less internal heat. Sounds like a good solution for home power storage from solar installations, and larger regional grid battery storage especially.
@@Kingramze Yup. Many who are familiar with GMG are salivating over these batteries being in EV's. I am too, a little, but I have a napkin. But if these get used for GRID STORAGE...I'm gonna need way more napkins, if not a towel!
@@bryanstrom812 when the man made the comment about grid being the limiting factor and that you could trickle charge a battery all day then plug it into your ev and fast charge it he didn't mention the type and size of this battery. It seems to me it would need to be say 4 times bigger energy stored and at a higher voltage as they will tend to equalize each other durring this fast charge. 2 identical batteries 1 full charge and 1 discharged put together will have the net result of both batteries just below half taking into consideration losses due to resistance and heat generated. I think it is correct that these batteries will be perfect for wind and solar energy storage. I dont remember if they discussed discharge rates and capacity but for off grid or power wall it should be great for individual consumers plus just as good for the utilities and energy storage using massive battery stations. Perhaps paired with large capacitors for surge demand.
@@Big.Ron1 It doesn't need capacitors because of its rapid charge/discharge rate. Capacitors only make good mediators when the charge/discharge rate of accompanying batteries is low. This battery is its own capacitor.
Superb interview and very informative on why the world needs to leave behind the hysteresis life problems that previous battery technology is limited by. Very impressed by Craig Nichol being able to explain in a succinct understandable way a complex technological advancement. The one concern not discussed was the legal ownership of the technology and how that might affect future products and marketing?
Rio Tinto in my country is synonymous with "destroys our cleanest agricultural land for Lithium and Boron". I am skeptical that they would really help out a technology which would cut their margin on Lithium sales.
The larger companies know the writing is on the wall, they either change or die so they all have their toe in the water.
They already supply aluminium, reducing one of their operational arms will be cheaper by leaving off mining lithium. The margin for high-purity aluminium is high and will get better, and it's a technology they don't have to spend money on cos it's already mature.
You adapt or die as a company. This would let them be the first to adapt. Well done Rio Tinto...
everyone is talking about density, and cost. missing out on the bigger issue, longevity. Lithium Ion is terrible for the environment, both its production and disposal.
But most environmentalist live in large cities, that have decimated eco systems, and rely on everyone else to import food. And use carbon as a bludgeon against said people to mask their hypocrisy.
Graphene aluminium batteries we are hearing about this from last 5 years no futhur development might be because of corporate s who want spoil people for money
Those batteries packs look similar to the ones I use for remote control airplanes and drone which are Lithium Polymer LiPo Battery Cells but when they get hot, they tend to swell because the gases produce can't be release like 4680 batteries. So, I was wondering if AL-Ion battery pack will swell up like Lithium Polymer LiPo Battery Cells or will it have some way to vent gas produce by heat?
Whether they will swell or not depends on the electrolyte and on charging temperature.
I suspect there will be no problem with this. What's more, aluminium doesn't present growing dendrites problem like lithium or sodium metals do. That means no inner short circuits and therefore no catastrophic breakdowns. Also, aluminium relatively is nonreactive metal compared to lithium or sodium metals.
I would love to know what the best battery is for off grid living in say campers and rv’s using solar? Wonder if this tech is going to address that since now most of us are using Lithium or what we think is the best is life pro 4 batteries. Will Solar charge this new battery faster and produce the amount of power we need in a reasonable size?
WOW!!! I would love to have their aluminum grapheme batteries in a Hyundai Ioniq 6!!! I wonder how many years before their tech able to be used in the aftermarket field for ev’s. I would love to see that.
I'm going to go with NEVER. They are blowing smoke. This company makes coatings.
If a tech post has `game changing `in its title then history is not on its side .
So, what is still needed to achieve double the voltage per cell or greater, to make the Al-Ion battery clearly competitive with Li-Ion on specific energy and energy density? Likewise, what is the corresponding energy density and cycle-life for the Al-Ion battery at C/5, C/4, C/3, C/2, 1C, 2C, 3C, 4C, 5C and 6C rates. Additionally, please let us know what the energy density (specific and volumetric) would be if operated over a more reasonable/practical voltage range, like 1.6V to 1.0V, rather than 2.4V to 0.5V, for comparability with Li-Ion which is typically operated from a high of 4.2V (fully charged) to a low of 3.4V (fully discharged). Note: Low-cost graphene could also improve the energy and power density of Li-Ion cells as well.
I smell a rat! If these guys have an economical method for producing graphene from unfiltered methane or really methane of any quality, it's like the proverbial person who develops a better mousetrap; the world will beat a path to their door...and beat their door down. The world will want to license/replicate/steal this process because of the myriad uses there are for large volume graphene. Their insistence on keeping the process from methane to completed battery in one facility is another "tell" here, somewhat like the guys who claim to have perpetual motion machines, but want to keep the machine in a particular location or in a special box. Graphene itself is about as delicate as a Samurai sword, so I don't buy the idea that it has to be so carefully protected that it must be encapsulated in a battery as part of a continuous process.
Further, if this battery can handle such immense charging currents, what's wrong with using some of that graphene for charging cables, possibly coming directly off of a transformer or off of some of these high capacity carbon transistors used for AC to DC conversion. It wouldn't have to be pure, level voltage DC, but stepped DC. obviously, I am talking about something more than a bit larger than coin batteries.
The bottom line here is that the world is in desperate need of a continuous, economical process for manufacturing graphene in widths larger than thread form.
He sort of gave away the story when he said that the world didn't have a need for stronger concrete, one of the stupidest statements that I have ever heard. What he was saying was effectively that they couldn't produce graphene in sufficient quantity economically enough to be used in concrete. Millions of tons of high strength steel are used in prestressed concrete every year and vast amounts of it are deteriorating as the concrete cracks and admits water. Huge bridges in Brazil and Italy have fallen because of this. Since graphene is 300 times the strength of steel, don't you think that every maker of prestressed concrete beams would be slavering at GMG's door to get graphene for their beams?
Maybe GMG can make enough graphene for coin cells and maybe not. Pouch cells would be an order of magnitude or two greater in production and producing any form of batteries for the transportation industry would probably be at least six orders greater for graphene production. GMG is a mouse and the companies that make batteries in volume are ravenous beasts.
If GMG really has a process for producing massive amounts of graphene in a continuous and economical process, then they need to license their patents and get out of the way so that the world can benefit. If not, then they will be caught out as scammers and the world will swiftly kick them aside as such. Good or bad, they cannot ride this for much further before it begins to ride them.
Graphene in quantity could replace copper and aluminum in most wiring, creating transmission lines that aren't vulnerable to EMP. DOD would die to get its hands on such a product for a thousand reasons, not to mention the fact that it would be much lighter than current wiring. And most of us have seen at least dozens or maybe even thousands of articles on possible uses for graphene, if only it could be produced in volume, economically.
@@everettlwilliamsii3740 Sigh, you exposed yourself. No graphene is not 300X stronger than steel. It is not even 10X stronger than steel. In fact, Graphene is about ~5X for common cheaply produced HT steel. Depending on alloy, Graphene is only 2X as strong as the best steel. Graphene in concrete has the problem of adhesion.
Then you utterly lost all credibility saying cables will not absorb EMP if made from Graphene. You probably read some article somewhere saying graphene in concrete would make a faraday cage.... Well yes, this is also true if you add steel corkscrews and weld tie a steel mesh over your rebar structure as has been done for every ammunition depot storage bunker for going on 100 years now.
Double voltage, although mentioned as possible in future, is completely unnecessary. Just connect two batteries in series and you have voltage of standard lithium battery. Yes they have reached the energy density similar to what LiFePO batteries have, but that is completely usable for mobility, since charging at the very high C will make charging of similar if not shorter times than gas tank filling possible... and if they have really cheap graphene production process then this will be absolute gamechanger for energy storage. So called renewables may experience extreme boom in usability.
@@everettlwilliamsii3740, I think you may be mistaking graphene for carbon nanotubes....
Graphene used in concrete would be to enhance its compressive strength (which concrete already has an abundance of), not its shear strength (which is why we use steel reinforcements). So even with added graphene, steel would still be required.
Your bit about EMP proofing transmission lines with graphene is very odd. I’ve never heard such claims and couldn’t imagine the science behind it unless you’re using it to construct some sort of giant faraday cage around the entire grid which you can do with other materials and would be unrealistic with any of them...
Also, mass production of graphene is simply not that far fetched. Idk, man, read a book perhaps...?🤷🏾♂️
@@petersvancarek Peter - the higher energy density of Li-Ion batteries relates directly to the higher voltage at which the Li-ion battery operates; twice the voltage => twice the energy density, all else being equal.
Lithium was adopted and mass produced 15 years later after patent expires. Thus the same can be said of all new battery tech, as no manufacturer likes to pay licensing fees.
@_____ , if you were to abolish patent law, what would incentivize technology advancement? Do you really think there are that many people out there willing to self finance schooling, RnD, mass production, etc when they have zero safe guards in place to protect their intellectual property? I think you over estimate our philanthropic nature....
Positives: potential looks good. Reduced charging times, better power density (he quoted 70C for charge but no figure for discharge?), mature manufacturing process. Negatives - graphene is expensive to manufacture, product may still have many years of development before commercial viability. Some things didn’t make sense to me? Craig’s quoting a lower internal resistance but also says the battery is about the same round trip efficiency as lithium ion. If it’s the same efficiency then it generates about the same amount of waste heat. That’s the only place that energy can go. Waste heat will cause the internal resistance to rise and more waste heat - there’s no way around that without cooling. So imagine you’re taking in more regen. That equals more heat. You’re going to need a liquid cooling system in a hot climate. He also listed the cycle count on lithium ion at 600 - 1000 cycles. They would be very old figures. LiFe batteries are generally between 3000 and 6000 cycles, modern LMNC should last at least 1200 cycles and quality cells can go 1500 - 2000 cycles. I wish them all the best but they seem a long way from EV battery manufacture.
Finally a UA-camr that actually puts links to these new technologies!!!!
Great to see someone who’s diligently helping us get access to these issues and helping spread their efforts into the market!!
It’s a shame “Just have a think” couldn’t THINK ABOUT US like you have!
He's a real person instead of spam and clickbait sites that use computer-generated voices.
Charge a 60 kw in 10 minutes up to 100%.will be something
This dude sounds like he went to the Peter Rawlinson school of engineering. The lucid motors of batteries.
Hemp husks can replace graphene at a small fraction of the cost of graphene.
And hemp's more popular cousin can alter your sense of time so your car appears to be going a lot faster than it is thus saving on fuel because you'll be going slower.
no, you need the molecular structure of graphene.
Too much emphasis on rapid charging. Li-ion can charge fast enough for EVs, although it takes some effort. And who needs to charge a phone in 5 minutes?
Related to this, where the higher POWER density of Al-ion could really help is in something like the new Tesla Roadster, or more extremely, a drag racer. Needing a big honking pack just to get the power really does suck.
We’ve entered ‘peak grift’ for batteries.
There’s so much investment money chasing so few ‘breakthroughs’ that the motivation to exaggerate is clear.
and he's exaggerating where?
I'll be interested when Elon buys your company.
How about graphene infused heat shield tiles for Starship. It was mentioned it could be used to make very strong concrete and defuses heat. Could it survive reentry? What about a heat resistant spray on coating instead of tiles?
Yes, good idea; especially since the Parker Solar Probe ventures so close to the sun that it's protected from the fierce heat by a 4.5 inch thick shield of carbon composite.
Graphite-based heat tiles is what's been used since the first Shuttle. Graphene has been shown to be better, and is waiting on cheap mass manufacture of graphene--and we're getting there.
Game changer for how many years now and yet not price competitive yet
The company apologises for not following your timeline.
Smell a lot like Buzzword Bingo.
Aluminium may be quite a common metal but it is still rather energy intensive to extract it.
Extracting natural gas releases quite a lot a carbon or are they "capturing" that carbon and selling this as carbon offset.
solar aluminium production is already a thing. Carbon can come from any source.
I would like to work for these people. I am generally extremely critical in my analysis and see this has great potential.
Also I am surprised at the time I watched this that only 33 thousand views had been recorded. Also Craig talked about his experience with natural gas shipping and I could not help but think why not ship energy in the form of battery barges and just park them near a city for use. There are places in the world where there is an excess of solar or geothermal or wind etc. Perhaps even containers the power so it could be delivered inland to remote grids. Got to be cheeper than high voltage lines.
Because the energy density of liquid hydrocarbons is and will always be far greater than any battery technology that we will ever come up with. So it will forever be cheaper to ship energy in the form of hydrocarbons to the points of use and then run high voltage transmission lines with relatively low loss to the farthest users of their grid. Ships dock at large ports. Wherever there’s a port, there is no need for large battery packs to power a grid. However, you may be on to something in the event of natural disasters as a temporary relief measure....🤔
Can you please do a video disseminating the difference between aluminum ion batteries and aluminum air batteries?
6 years along towards the typical 20 development time?
We'll be waiting however long it takes, to good to miss.
This is all very cool. Too bad its all coming in as I near the time to go home. Still, this is all very cool. Thank you.
Coming from someone who is about to submit their thesis on Al-ion batteries, they are being dishonest about the energy density. People tend to not incorporate the weight of electrolyte needed in order to get the capacity from the graphene. Because you're using AlCl4^- ions rather than Al3+ to intercalate in the cathode it means you consume electrolyte, and need a certain weight of electrolyte per weight of graphene. The other huge issue is the loading of graphene tends to be well below 1 mg/cm^2, whereas practical cells require upwards of 20 mg/cm^2. When you try load too high, the performance drops hugely. That said, these could potentially be used as energy dense supercapacitors. I just hope they've found a viable cheaper ionic liquid to use rather than EMImCl. I suggest Et3NHCl or GdmCl
I want to know how much stronger concrete is with graphene. Why? Is it strong enough to build a space elevator? That is the super-grail for escape from earth. It would cut the cost to allow orbiting cities where mass transport rockets would be cheaper to build for colonizing our system.
concrete is a compression construction material, not tension. Not useful for that.
They should take this information to one of Tesla competitors . This could really intensify competition in the automotive industry .
Latest testing data has demonstrated a calculated energy density that has increased by 93% from 150-160 Wh/kg to 290-310 Wh/Kg since the last battery update on the 22nd of June 2021
Impressive!
@@Cleanerwatt GMG Coin Cell Prototype Fast Charging Demonstration ua-cam.com/video/mP4AOXrSeoc/v-deo.html
I have a new interview with Craig discussing this next week!
@@Cleanerwatt Great news, can't wait to watch it.
Yuge!
Lab scale is nothing. Giga produktion is👍🤑
Every body afraid, lithium battery betterthan grapheen battery in the world ,New genaration coming battery . 😎
Very exciting.....!
SO MUCH marketing fluff. Show coulombic efficiencies at C/40. Show thermal parasitics.
20C charging rate is crazy, but what about delivery? 100kw/h car battery can be charged in 1 hour with ~100kw power delivery, if we need to charge it in 5 minutes, which charger and what flexible cable can deliver 1MW safely? What cabling needs to be used inside car to withstand these amps?
What happens with fast charging? Say the battery can store 75 kWh and charge in 8 minutes, how much power is needed? Around 0.5 MW ! Cool. And is this realistic to have installed in every station? It is say 5000 V and 100 A. Not exactly what we would like in our carport. So, what to do? Convert to hydrogen.
Def not hydrogen, I thought everyone had moved on from such an inefficient & necessarily corporate-giant-dependency for cars. It's simply not viable.
Big things yes
@@guringai totally wrong, there are so many improvements on storing and produsing H2, you may not like it but you will see it
So it's half the density. He says it is high, but 150 is their battery, but the industry is running from 260-270 wh/kg. They are beating lead acid batteries, which is 50-100.
Well, EAVs are a foregone conclusion now! If we can have 3-4x the power to weight ratio then we can fly on the cheap!
H2 fuel cells+batteries for planes.
*Rather bad mis-speak at **6:06* saying "Watt-hours per kilogram" when talking about POWER density, which has units of WATTS per kg.
Concerned that they have enough money to build that pilot plant and design and build a production plant. They need more financing and they need to go as fast as they can to get this battery out without sacrificing its performance. Would love to see a commercial battery available in volume by the end of 2025.
👍New Micro Electronics , Sri lanka inovation.about Ev technology .😎
I can hear future generations: "Can you Believe those Idiots were Burning natural gas instead of making graphene? What were they Thinking..." :-)
The longer cycle life of the batteries allow for the batteries to be used regularly for Power to Grid/Everything purposes without unacceptable degradation of the battery. This will result in huge savings as you will no longer need separate EV/Grid batteries that result from the shorter lifespans of Lithium batteries!
ALWAYS wait a year before buying ANY new tech. I like the pouch better than the round battery . We here in Thailand have heat & water so lithium is problematic here .
Another hype ad about vaporware battery technology that will never hit the market and is used to try to get investment cash.
I have seen hundreds of those for 40 years now, and during that time we have only seen NiMh and then Li-ion. And that's it.
So, no thanks. Go make other vids.
Coin cells... things get a lot more complicated and difficult when you scale up dimensions and production capacity at several order of magnitude. All new batteries are good asap, but until big capacity production at a competitive costs, this are only good after researches products. I hope they can scale up fast.
The fundamental question he did not answer " how do you manufacture your graphene?" I'm nervous...people want stronger concrete....where is this plant making this graphene...as he speaks I get really nervous to disbelieving... ..so the voltage out the pouch...sounds like another Trevor Milton to me...
What we need to know is price and where to buy. I'm already using solor for ALL my power needs.. It's very old but solar none the less.
Anyone that looks like Charlie Sheen's character in Wall Street, I'ma take with a grain of salt. Don't wanna be Bluestarred.
Still only vapourware :p Dont chuck money into this speculation until there's a commercial minimal viable product.
why do men wear those ear pieces that make them look like they are wearing old lady earrings? it's about 30 points off his masculinity! In the wimpy range.
Lets hope this technology pans out!
Yes, it looks very promising!
All these companies…either they overpriced the battery or they just can’t bring down the cost. The all wanna be billionaires
i have a short attention span
What is the cost per KWh
and energy density per KG
150-160 Wh/kg (should improve in the future). Little to no cooling should not be necessary, so when it comes to pack level energy density, it will actually be pretty close to existing Li-Ion tech in terms of Wh/kg at the pack level.
Battery-powered electric vehicles are phenomenally efficient. Depending on the model, they can boast a well-to-wheel efficiency of around 70 to 80 per cent. By comparison, a hydrogen fuel cell-powered electric vehicle (FCEV) is positively parsimonious, with an overall efficiency of somewhere around 30 to 35 per cent
Parsimonious means frugal; the opposite of what I think you mean, which is wasteful.
EV's are not that efficient beginning to end if you average the efficiency of the power creation. You or your source are cheating the numbers. I do agree though, hydrogen is way off compared to EVs.
A well-to-wheel efficiency of 70% violates the laws of physics. You can't have a WtW efficiency higher than the efficiency of any given stage. A theoretically perfect (Betz limit) wind turbine is ~59% efficient. Real ones are around 20%. A utility grade solar panel is ~10-15% efficient. Upper limits for PV are complicated, but 40% is a fair estimate. A typical modern natural gas power plant is ~60% efficient. Ignoring cogeneration benefits, the thermodynamic upper limit is ~70% (heat engines). Grid transmission losses are another 5-10%. Electric motors can be 97% efficient, let's say 99% just to be unrealistically generous. Associated variable frequency drive, inverter, and other power electronics have an efficiency of at best ~90%. So you can't even get a well to tank efficiency of 70%, let alone well to wheels. Before we even consider the battery losses, you can't get above 50%.
@@thealienrobotanthropologist Your figures are ok; but, burning fuel engines are less than 40% efficient, at best. The benefits of electric vehicles are their constant rate of efficiency, not just some of the time; expended energy can be, partially, recaptured during regeneration going down hill and during braking; noxious gases during operation, none; less aerodynamic drag requiring less energy for the same performance. The electric generators, for charging, operate at constant speed, which is the most efficient and least polluting, and their polluting gases can be more easily captured and dealt with.
@@artsnow8872 While Otto cycle engines are less efficient than combined cycle electric power plants, turbocharged diesel engines are slightly more efficient. Non-combined cycle power plants are roughly the same as Otto cycle engines, with a lot of variation in each category. Subtract 20% off the efficiency of the best combined cycle electric plant to account for distribution and grid storage losses, then also power electronics, battery, and motor losses and suddenly the efficiency over a badly designed Otto cycle engine is rather modest. EVs aren't intrinsically lower drag than ICE vehicles. That tends to be the case because it's more important for EVs, but there's no reason the same couldn't be done with ICE. You just need to persuade the marketing and styling people. EVs are significantly heavier than ICE and thus have more rolling resistance. They also tend to have wider tires to support the greater loads, which is a surprisingly significant aerodynamic disadvantage. Cabin heating in cold environments is another significant disadvantage for EVs. This effectively lets ICE engines operate in a cogeneration capacity vs an EV running a heat pump for heating. This actually can put the best (turbocharged Atkinson or HCCI) Otto variant engines ahead of EVs in energy efficiency. They may have bad emissions, but turbocharged diesel engines are the most energy efficient well-wheels solution available. EV efficiency is not constant either. With the exception of the Porsche Taycan, they use fixed speed gear boxes, but the required torque varies widely throughout driving, leading to gigantic inefficiencies. Imagine driving an ICE car in first gear at all times. This is the price of the great acceleration EVs are known for. There are linear torque curve electric motors that could avoid this issue, but they're extremely inefficient and not suitable for any demanding task. While it was a big problem with older ICE engines, modern engines with a host of emissions technologies aren't that different from burning the same fuel in an electric power plant. Electric power plants benefit from natural gas being much cleaner to burn than gasoline or diesel fuel. Burning coal is worse though.
Furthermore, the pollution from solar or wind plus battery based grid storage is roughly at parity with combined cycle natural gas plants (minus cogeneration benefits). In order to reduce pollution from electricity generation, we have to either keep enough natural gas to avoid grid storage or adopt nuclear instead of grid storage. The smart solution would be thorium reactors plus a few fast breeder reactors (just to eliminate the nuclear waste produced by the 1950s and 1960s era antique nuclear designs). In order for EVs to make sense environmentally, the electricity can't be generated from our current mix of sources. Otherwise we'd benefit far, far more from getting people to drive sensible cars instead of luxury tank SUVs and monster trucks. A Tesla Model X P100D, to say nothing of the Cyber Truck, Hummer EV, etc. are worse for the environment than a basic ICE economy sedan or hatchback unless we switch to mostly or entirely nuclear energy. Hybrid vehicles really would make the most sense until the electric grid is converted to nuclear.
Super interesting.
But you have got to loose the chin beard, it detracts from your professional appearance.
Good interview. I'd like to see him speak more on what are the current obstacles in the way of getting these items to the market.
Sounds as if the big challenge will be creating bigger sheets of graphene for pouch cells. Give it ten years.
Thermal-XR, Conductivity 10-15 times aluminium, interesting for the satellite I’m working on, might delve a little deeper.
Thermal XR is not GMG tech, they are a middle man and authorised distributor, and not even for Australia. Their batteries are years away from commercialisation.
Curious about the electrolyte. Is it solid (eg solid state battery tech) was that even discussed?
This is NOT a solid state battery. It has/will have a liquid electrolyte.
Competition is really moving things along. Looks like a bright future for technology!
But how about the weight and energy density?
Talk is cheap , can't wait to see full production , I'll be waiting and watching
The minute somebody says our batteries can not be reproduced without magic dust, beware.
Thanks Jon. What percentage of that 'natural gas' is coming from big oil companies?
All of it. There are very few “mom n pop” oil wells out there...
@@revmsj Not counting the Queen and the Prince.
Yeah, where else? It's an industry on a huge scale with massive capex requirements...of course it takes "big" companies to achieve that.
150 compared to 450 watt hours per kilogram with lithium batteries it looks like lithium is still the winner for electric vehicles doesn't it?
You have to look for density at pack level as plenty of mass comes from thermal management. Myself I'd prefer to have smaller battery that charges at constant 250-350kW instead of more capacity but slower. This would make stops more frequent but very short.
Really boring . Just produce huge amount to prove before want to earn money
Stop saying “less machines”.
It is “fewer machines”. It creates a bad impression when you don’t know good English.
For you with your nose in the air, the phrase is "proper English", not "good English". You evidently weren't listening in your grammar class.
I’m waiting for the pretzel battery filled with cheese. I bet we will see that first.
Comparison given to lithium-ion. What about sodium-ion?
I wouldn't be surprised if China bears them to market
Promising, but not quite ready for prime time. Soon I hope.
The queensland university of nanotechnology is not real as his chart says
What pairs with amazing batteries? Great motors how do we get better electric motors?
Iron nitride magnets with stronger magnetic fields make motors lighter and smaller and they do not need rare earth minerals. Niron Magnetics makes them let's get them into every EV possible.
magnet-free motors are already in production.
when can we buy them. its a year later and we still cant find any to buy
Rather use it for my home battery than a grid battery. Could you use the heat in a heat engine to recapture more energy? Would you get enough heat out to justify the cost of that modification?
Heat energy recapture systems cost 50,000, so I'm going to go with no. This whole Convo is running on vapors.
you would need one that could use low-density waste heat; a Stirling engine could do it.
Another scammer with a new scam , make sure ya all invest all yas gots eh
This seems like a lot of bs. They're making these prototype batteries by hand and saying they are going to scale up to coins while talking a load of rubbish about car batteries - which they are wholly unlikely to ever be able to produce because they do not deal at all in the end of the market, so no supply chain is in place for this company Then he claims graphene is expensive. Um, it graphene LITERALLY the most abundant material in the universe. Graphene oxide can be made at home for pennies and can be found on Amazon for $1.23/lb. Granted, it's not the ultra-purified variety they claim to want to work with, but *m not so sure that this "ultra-purified" thing is even an issue at all, given the nature of graphene oxide. It's very pure to begin with. They are doing coatings. FULL STOP. Don't give your cash to this man, bottom line.
very stupid comments
upgrade your tech by using an aluminum salt (gel)
Lots of promises... no technical information... vague statements...good luck to them.
They are still pretty early in the process, but the tech has a lot of promise (more than most new battery tech in my opinion) - they are not reinventing the wheel, but just improving an existing technology.
@@Cleanerwatt were you in any way compensated by them to make this material?
@@thomasputko1080 I think the better question is to determine what the University of Queensland gets out of their deal with GMG, because they developed the technology, GMG is just commercializing and improving on their existing work
@@TheLargestBlock and this is really confusing. I dont know anything about this university but I cannot find plausible explanation why they would associate themselves with this start up - this could damage their reputation as uni name is the only thing he really has. There is literally nothing else there - well apart grandiose statements.
Another thing is very loud silence from Cleanerwatt to my querry. Simple yes or no would suffice... but Cleanerwatt chooses not to answear. 😁
Dont get me wrong - Im not saying anything - im just careful and suspicious of any wonder material. Especially that there is little evidence to support it. Someone here as well checked financial statements of this company and it shows very little trading.
For now it looks like lots of hype to get the silly investors put their little savings in...
@@TheLargestBlock GMG seeks out and maintains a lot of nebulous relationships and leverages them to the fullest. You look into them and see they're either paid associations (Stanford) or meaningless LOIs
IM trying to understand why not, can we sa yes thats how we can
That's insane charging rates. What's the Wh/kg ???
The atomic weight or lithium is 3 while the aluminum is 13 more than 4 times so the Power density of aluminum can't be higher than lithium.
How does this explain .
electrochemistry not molecular structure. Al has 3 available electrons, Li has one. He specified.