Am I write that for the first section you have the triangle wave of the 921b going into the frequency Control of the 921? Thanks for putting this up. Trying to replicate this amazing sound with mine
@@Soupsounds The triangle wave of the 921b is patched to the clamping point v input of the 921 (but as the signal is too quiet straight from the 921B for sync to work using the clamp point on the 921, the signal is amplified via my neutrons VCA before it goes into the clamping point V input on the 921). So the 921 is synced to the 921B's triangle wave. On my mixer the saw wave from the 921B and the saw wave from the 921 is mixed - that's what you can hear. To get that classic hard sync glide sound you need to modulate the pitch frequency of the 921 with something like an envelope generator or a LFO (in the video I do it manually by hand).
No it’s not, and yes it will (work without the 921a) But, the 921 has better pitch tracking and the pulse wave is more accurate to the original moog system than the 931b (the top end is rounded off on the 931b for some reason). Plus it has more features such has better sync and an aux output plus manual control of pulse width. The 921 is the better VCO.
So, dumb question because I don't understand those vintage module internals, but what is the advantage of getting the 921B over the 921 (they are both the same price) since the 921B needs the 921A (driver) to work (if I understood correctly) and the 921 doesn't. Also, on the demo Behringer said that the 921A can drive more than one 921B... how? Thanks!
Mainly it’s the fact that you can chain several 921Bs together with a 921A driver (if you had multiple 921s running the same sequence/freq CV source then you’d need a buffered mult, which you can get hold of for under £50/$70). Plus they take up less HP, and then there’s the whole authenticity thing of having the whole vintage Moog module set in the form of eurorack clones…. But one thing I discovered recently was that the square wave on the 921 is actually closer sounding to the original moog system 55 square wave than the 921b’s. And it sounds better. For some reason the 921b’s square wave sounds like there’s a bit of low pass filtering going on with the wave - the high freqs are rounded off a bit, so it doesn’t sound so bright.
@@ZvookUK Thanks! So, if you are not that much into the "authenticity" thing what 55 modules would be the bare minimum to have a 3 OSC, 1 LP VCF, 1 HP VCF, 1 VCA and 1 ENV setup? Do I still need the mixer? Also, is the sound on those 921 OSC too different than the OSC on the Model D? Thanks a lot! :D
@@bernardosilva7306 you'd need something like this: cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1618617.jpg You could get away with one envelope to drive both filter and VCA, or you could have two envelopes, one for filter and the other for VCA. Yeah, you'd need a mixer for the three VCOs, plus the buffered mult (I included a doepfer one in the modular grid, but you can get hold of smaller and cheaper ones - it just has to be a buffered mult, not passive for the pitch CV to be shared by all three VCOs). I've also included a mult/attenuator for the envelope and filter. You'll also need a power source (which I've included in the rack), plus a case/skiff/rack or some sort to house the modules... I've heard the system 55 modules sound better than the model D, but I don't own a model D so couldn't say. They're a lot more flexible though, for sure. But they'll both have the fat moog mono synth sound.
I forgot - you'd also need a cable to convert the v trig to s trig for the envelopes - you could convert a cable or buy one from someone. There are youtube vids. That's if you didn't want to shell out for a £70 behringer converter module. www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0E29
This is interesting. Take a look at my waveform clamping video with the Mos-lab 921 and watch what happens to the clamping point. ua-cam.com/video/qkXXmXChlVQ/v-deo.html The Moog 921b doesn't have sync, it has a phased-lock loop, which is not a hard sync (I am sure you probably know about this since you have a nice system there). I believe that the majority of Moog clones (excluding Synth-Werk) opt for the hard sync. Waveform clamping is, i suspect, a way to achieve sync before oscillator sync was a thing. It looks like the clamping point (which you can set at any point on the wave on my moslab 921) on yours is more like a form of PWM rather than actually moving the clamping point. (Edit: My comment came before watching your explanation of the 921b hah. )
Hi Rhythmicons, thanks for your comment. I have another video I made of me altering the Behringer 921 clamp point. ua-cam.com/video/TX0JM5IhDJo/v-deo.html. On my other video that you are referring to, I made the mistake of have both signals from the 921 and the VCO pathced into the clamp V trig in on the 921 going through the oscilloscope, so you can see the mixed signals of both master & slave "synced" VCOs on the oscilloscope which confuses things. This other video (link below) I made has just the 921 on the oscilloscope. I haven't got a nice oscilloscope like yours, I have to rely on software unfortunately, so please excuse the lack of decent signal analysis equipment. I had one of my other VCOs amplified and patched into the voltage clamp trig in. ua-cam.com/video/TX0JM5IhDJo/v-deo.html
@@Rhythmicons I should have made it clear in the original video that the mixed signals are going through the oscilloscope. I'm familiar with your videos actually- I've found them very informative and helpful. Thank you.
i have loved this series of yours :-) these #behringer modules are wicked stuff
thanks for reviewing this, plz do more behringer stuff
Thanks for the complement! Will do - More on the way...
Am I write that for the first section you have the triangle wave of the 921b going into the frequency Control of the 921? Thanks for putting this up. Trying to replicate this amazing sound with mine
@@Soupsounds The triangle wave of the 921b is patched to the clamping point v input of the 921 (but as the signal is too quiet straight from the 921B for sync to work using the clamp point on the 921, the signal is amplified via my neutrons VCA before it goes into the clamping point V input on the 921). So the 921 is synced to the 921B's triangle wave. On my mixer the saw wave from the 921B and the saw wave from the 921 is mixed - that's what you can hear. To get that classic hard sync glide sound you need to modulate the pitch frequency of the 921 with something like an envelope generator or a LFO (in the video I do it manually by hand).
@@Soupsounds Here, I've just uploaded a new video explaining the hard-sync pitch glide patch - ua-cam.com/video/S4O7Kf79qLE/v-deo.html
Shit sounds awesome
do you know if the 921A is necessary for operation of 921B? Will 921b accept standard control voltage (1v per octave) without help of 921a ?
No it’s not, and yes it will (work without the 921a) But, the 921 has better pitch tracking and the pulse wave is more accurate to the original moog system than the 931b (the top end is rounded off on the 931b for some reason). Plus it has more features such has better sync and an aux output plus manual control of pulse width. The 921 is the better VCO.
Can you do a video explaining sync in more depth?
Does the 921b track v/oct without the oscillator driver?
Yes.
So, dumb question because I don't understand those vintage module internals, but what is the advantage of getting the 921B over the 921 (they are both the same price) since the 921B needs the 921A (driver) to work (if I understood correctly) and the 921 doesn't. Also, on the demo Behringer said that the 921A can drive more than one 921B... how? Thanks!
Mainly it’s the fact that you can chain several 921Bs together with a 921A driver (if you had multiple 921s running the same sequence/freq CV source then you’d need a buffered mult, which you can get hold of for under £50/$70). Plus they take up less HP, and then there’s the whole authenticity thing of having the whole vintage Moog module set in the form of eurorack clones…. But one thing I discovered recently was that the square wave on the 921 is actually closer sounding to the original moog system 55 square wave than the 921b’s. And it sounds better. For some reason the 921b’s square wave sounds like there’s a bit of low pass filtering going on with the wave - the high freqs are rounded off a bit, so it doesn’t sound so bright.
@@ZvookUK Thanks! So, if you are not that much into the "authenticity" thing what 55 modules would be the bare minimum to have a 3 OSC, 1 LP VCF, 1 HP VCF, 1 VCA and 1 ENV setup? Do I still need the mixer? Also, is the sound on those 921 OSC too different than the OSC on the Model D? Thanks a lot! :D
@@bernardosilva7306 you'd need something like this: cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1618617.jpg You could get away with one envelope to drive both filter and VCA, or you could have two envelopes, one for filter and the other for VCA. Yeah, you'd need a mixer for the three VCOs, plus the buffered mult (I included a doepfer one in the modular grid, but you can get hold of smaller and cheaper ones - it just has to be a buffered mult, not passive for the pitch CV to be shared by all three VCOs). I've also included a mult/attenuator for the envelope and filter. You'll also need a power source (which I've included in the rack), plus a case/skiff/rack or some sort to house the modules... I've heard the system 55 modules sound better than the model D, but I don't own a model D so couldn't say. They're a lot more flexible though, for sure. But they'll both have the fat moog mono synth sound.
www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/1618617 (the link to the modular grid rack)
I forgot - you'd also need a cable to convert the v trig to s trig for the envelopes - you could convert a cable or buy one from someone. There are youtube vids. That's if you didn't want to shell out for a £70 behringer converter module. www.behringer.com/product.html?modelCode=P0E29
piep
This is interesting. Take a look at my waveform clamping video with the Mos-lab 921 and watch what happens to the clamping point. ua-cam.com/video/qkXXmXChlVQ/v-deo.html
The Moog 921b doesn't have sync, it has a phased-lock loop, which is not a hard sync (I am sure you probably know about this since you have a nice system there). I believe that the majority of Moog clones (excluding Synth-Werk) opt for the hard sync. Waveform clamping is, i suspect, a way to achieve sync before oscillator sync was a thing. It looks like the clamping point (which you can set at any point on the wave on my moslab 921) on yours is more like a form of PWM rather than actually moving the clamping point. (Edit: My comment came before watching your explanation of the 921b hah. )
Hi Rhythmicons, thanks for your comment. I have another video I made of me altering the Behringer 921 clamp point. ua-cam.com/video/TX0JM5IhDJo/v-deo.html. On my other video that you are referring to, I made the mistake of have both signals from the 921 and the VCO pathced into the clamp V trig in on the 921 going through the oscilloscope, so you can see the mixed signals of both master & slave "synced" VCOs on the oscilloscope which confuses things. This other video (link below) I made has just the 921 on the oscilloscope. I haven't got a nice oscilloscope like yours, I have to rely on software unfortunately, so please excuse the lack of decent signal analysis equipment. I had one of my other VCOs amplified and patched into the voltage clamp trig in. ua-cam.com/video/TX0JM5IhDJo/v-deo.html
@@ZvookUK I'm happy to see your analysis actually. My scope recently went kaput though.
@@Rhythmicons I should have made it clear in the original video that the mixed signals are going through the oscilloscope. I'm familiar with your videos actually- I've found them very informative and helpful. Thank you.
@@Rhythmicons Sorry to hear your scope has a fault, I hope it's not too much trouble to fix it.
@@Rhythmicons PS - the eurorack scale looks a bit daft when compared to the full proper size deal!