Monarch 16" Lathe Restoration - Part 11: Finishing the Apron
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- Опубліковано 6 жов 2024
- In this video I will finally finish putting together the last bit of the apron on my Monarch 16" Model K lathe. I will also discuss what we have done with the lubrication system in the saddle.
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Well Keith, you never know what you've started by your videos, but you saved my backside with this series this week. I'm learning to work on vacuum cleaners and related machines, and this week, I had to deal with a Koblenz shampooer that was throwing brushes off. I was quite surprised, when I opened it up, to find it was driven by the same system as this lathe apron. I recognized it as soon as I got into it, and recognized that it had the same problem as this apron. It had an electric motor in the middle, with a gear box on each side to drive the brushes. In those gear boxes were a steel worm and a bronze worm gear that differed from this only in scale and price. My little bronze worm gears were only about an inch and a half in diameter and a quarter inch thick, and only $20 each instead of $500. Just like yours, the teeth were completely ground off, and the grease in the gear box was full of shavings. The parts were available, and I put it back together today. I even knew what to do with the Woodruff keys.
So the takeaway is that the skills you are teaching help with a broad range of fields, including vacuum cleaner repair, and that Koblenz is an amazing machine, that is still built like a machine and not a toy. No nylon gears in that puppy. It is built to last.
Thanks Keith, it' VINTAGE machinery, and your time is appeciated, it's a hobby and not how support your wife and kids.
I recently went through the oil lines on a B&S mill. Hobby lobby sells annealed copper tubing kits (multiple sizes) for 2 bucks when I had a couple of broken lines. The kit allows you to use a larger size tube as a coupler and solder it in place. Then, for the brass furele, I used a small drift punch and taped it down over it to open it back up to fit a new piece of tubing inside. Worked well.
It's nice to see this old Monarch receiving the respect it deserves.
I feel you pain. Having fiddled with a fair amount of small copper and brass tubing I know the feeling. An 'Old Salt' once told me that if a copper or brass pipe has been sitting for over a year that you need to anneal it before you try and reshape it. Of course I didn't listen. It took me years before I tried the suggestion. I was amazed at how easy it made things. I could reshape kinks and bend tubing back into round, etc
Recently, Thanks to Keith Appleton's UA-cam channel, I discovered Blackgates Engineering in the UK. They stock all sorts of bits and bobs. For me find a source for all sorts of odd Imperial size parts (nuts, bolts, fittings. etc) was wonderful. My bet is that they would have that fitting.
Keith, if their was that much dirt in the lube system it would be worth your time to replace those brass metering units. They have a small filter within them and if clogged the correct amount of oil will not flow through them. It would suck to get it back together and not see oil flow from one of the ports.
They each have a number on them which corresponds to their intended flow.
MKE Machine I second that!! The little sintered bit in them doesn't clean well.
I can imagine how satisfying that must be to turn the handle with that "clunk" gone. Nice simple fix for a change. Great videos Keith!
Thx Keith, all though i have never done any scraping i learned alot about it by watching that class , and also leaned alot about how to and many different ways to measure something that i have never measured before
I would like to thank you. You are the one pf the main resones I went out and picked up my first lathe. Its nothing special just an old craftman rubeck 109 lathe from the late 40s early 50s. Its been realy awsome and has been educational.
Atlas still handles parts for those, and their branded version. I picked up spare parts for my 6" 101.21400as well as an actual Sears Craftsman manual from them.
Looking good Keith, enjoyed!
ATB, Robin
As someone else mentioned I'd replace the meter units in the lube system. They're often clogged and it's a lot easier to change them out with the saddle upside down on the bench. At the minimum you'll want to put some pressure to the system and make sure that all are working before mounting the saddle.
When you turn those nuts around the right way you might also want to check the centering on that new gear as it looks to be in towards the carriage too far to be centered over the worm so it may need shimming out. Could all be an illusion too though hard to tell from 1000mi away! It is looking great!
You can't fool us Kentucky boys.
I hate to say it ... but if you compare it to the disassembly video, definitely not the same. Question is, knowing someone else has been in there, which is correct, which was put back incorrectly. One thing I learned about working on older equipment (that has been in many hands) is that how you find something put together is not always how it's supposed to be. Hope there is an exploded view diagram somewhere on that.
yes once something has been apart, you cannot trust at all it was done right
2nd THAT! On ANYTHING!
Get Baily to look it over. He'll know.
After 37 years of industrial machinery repair i can say the problems you have encountered are not unusual. I have worked on machines 'repaired' by people who could break a crowbar in a sandbox.
Also the Timkin nuts (or spanner nuts) are installed backward and that size lube line was used by Warner & Swasey and Hartford among others.
It's great to see someone actually do quality work.
In the old days they had a Saturday Matinee always ending in a cliff hanger. This kept you coming back for the next show. If you ever decide to write screenplays I recommend that style, you do it very well.
like when superman got crushed to death and in the next week he actually dodged it entirely....
Thanks Keith. Sure looking good! Can't wait to see it in action... then you can bring it over to my shop.... No???
one of the best Keith of yours, the entire series and #2 to the huge drill press drop.
Make a ferule or check with a local hobby shop that sells RC model parts. Hobby Town here in Kennesaw is a great source for tiny screws and parts. I don't know about a ferule but every time I go in there I find something new that I can use for small projects.
Great video. Saw you with Mr. Pete. Great video , that one , too.
That turned out real nice.
You can buy that ferrule from All World Machinery in Rockford, IL. They have no minimum. They will sell you a single o-ring.
i went to my local hydraulic fittings store, they had a 30 minimum from store buys, what i wanted amounted to £5 in o rings, i said to the guy, you already got them out of stock and priced it up, you can either take the 5, or get nothing and put them all back......he took the 5, more fool them, ive never been back, rather search ebay, theres always someone even for a £1 order
1-815-943-9111 Looks like you need to start a relationship with these people, Keith. You should be able to find most of your parts with All World.
OR ... you could try Grainger.com
Clyde Decker ... IMHO, Grainger can piss up a rope. They are the worst when it comes to things like this, probably cost twice the price of OEM.
I have carefully drilled the tube from inside a Ferrell before and then reamed or enlarged the Ferrell bore just enough to get a slip fit on the tube and reused the Ferrell as long as it is not damaged too much.
Looking good, Keith. I really like the industrial green.
That ferule may be available through a heating and air company. Some pilot lights used very small tubing. Also, you could adapt the fittings to 1/8" I believe. Greg
I have worked on quite a few of those Bijur oiling systems .... on older mercedes cars .They had a oiling system which lubed the whole chassis with #90 gear oil. I made a lot of the bits like the orifices because i never realised Bijur still has the parts. it wouldn't take too much to clock up $50 though. :-)
Keith, I have been in a tight spot before where I had to drill out ferral's and reuse them with out issue or leaks. The number drill index should get you there if you have to do that.
THANK YOU...for sharing.
7:29 - Damn - I've got the exact same Craftsman screwdriver with the SAME broken tip! And it's amazing how useful the blasted thing is.
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the crimped line to the input connector. That looks like it would seriously restrict oil flow even if your hydraulic pump could force something through it. I would seriously consider replacing the entire line, as trimming back past the crimp is going to leave very close to having too short of a line.
The nuts and lock washer on the bronze gear are designed to be installed with the tapered side in.They are called timken nuts .It may not matter, but google timken nuts,there are CAD drawings showing this.Again,it may not matter,but if you notice the angle of the tabs you will see that it matches the angle of the nuts.Just FYI,love your videos.
You are correct. You can see it in the uninstall video they came apart opposite to they way Keith put them back on.
ua-cam.com/video/wc11PSsVMkM/v-deo.html
At the 23rd minute mark.
as a millwright I cringed a little, but Keith is so full of other knowledge I don't mind, Your hard drive is only so big.
Les Bender i
Keith, I've more than once fixed a hole in a line like that with a little silver solder. Trying to butt-splice a line that small would be tricky, since it would be easy to plug the line while soldering it, but I think it could be done, especially if you can blow thru it from the other end. Keep up some airflow while soldering and it probably would not plug up. Alternately you could make an armature out of some high-temp something-or-other that won't solder and use it to hold the hole open and keep the parts in alignment. Maybe a hunk of pencil lead. Or solder and don't worry about plugging it up, and drill it clear afterward.
stainless steel wire should do it, you an also wrap thin brass or get some tube to put on the outside rather than straight butt splice
Good thought on the SS wire. I was going to suggest some sort of ferrule, but then I thought that the break is too close to the end of the tube, and the gland nut wouldn't be able to slide over the extra thickness. If a ferrule could be used it would be the better way to go.
Beautiful work Keith, it must give you a great satisfaction! Keep up the great videos.
It always seams to be the little things that will hold up progress. Probable not but it sure seams that way to me.
Really great video. Lots of info in the comments. Wonder if some of them know what they are talking about. Mixed bag!
keith nice work.
Keith- don’t know if you will see this, but thought that I would throw in a thought- that $530.00 gear would not have been necessary if routinely (?) maintenance would have caught the excessively worn bushings that the feed rod runs through. Another idea, not being able to actually see the groove that you believe cut the bushes, are the edges chamfered? Rounding them would considerably lengthen the life of the brass bushes. And routinely lubricating all.
I like that paint color. It is very close to Detroit Diesel's alpine green.
Try looking at laboratory gas line fittings for the copper olive you require for the oiler, or even model steam engine fittings. Hope you find what you need without spending an arm and a leg.
looking good
Wow, I think that apron assembly is bigger than my entire lathe. And that worm gear cost more than my lathe too!
In the Video around the 14 minute mark, the tube coming out the manifold block at the back vertically looks like it has a hole ? or some damage on the left front side ~ 6mm up from the compression fitting.
Great work so far on the restoration :) I wish here in Perth we had the opportunity to find older machines at reasonable prices to be able to restore ;)
I am surprised there isn't an O-ring or grease seal on that cover with the 3 bolts. I would have thought you would want to avoid dust and dirt ingress into that shaft. Amazing work as always Keith!
check with a truck repair shop for the fittings some air shifters use plastic air line in 3/23 od line and fittings good to 120 psi and stand up to oil
Kieth, try Aircraft Spruce for those ferrules. They have a supply center in Atlanta.
Aircraft use that 1/8" line for engine priming. Good luck.
Paul Rachels Yeah, but the flair degree angle may not match, especially if they're 100°.
plus that, usually, anything with the word "airplane" or "aircraft" attached to it is double or triple the price.
Did not KR say the lines were 3/32 ID.....? Why replace those visible sections with some sort of transparent plastic....like tygon...through which the flow is visible...?
All those small bore copper lines look chewed up....!!!
diggerop Except nylon washers.... $.03 at spruce, $.10 at local hardware store.
It should be possible to make one of those pipe fittings. Just a piece of brass, drill it through to the pipe size, and chamfer the ends.
SLORRIFJART321
I agree. With all the complicated parts that Keith makes, I would think a simple Ferrell would be a piece of cake.
Machining is not a problem if you have small enough work holding, question is... which hardness of brass?
I would make up a new olive using riveting quality brass, or from copper, then anneal it. I would try to get a supply of new tubing and replace all of the lines, with new olives.
Perhaps there is info on ferrells in the machinist handbook?
Beautiful job, Keith. That machine is so pretty, I'm not sure I could bring myself to dirty it up :-P
Oh what a wonderful job, Keith. Hasn't that come back together well? I feel that I know this machine 'almost' as well as I know the LeBlond.
I suggest to make some covers around the bronze gear, because of the 500 USD price...
hi keith nice job
The feral on your oil line looks a lot like the ferals used on a heavy duty semi truck shifter to select the ranges known as spaghetti lines.I bet if you have a heavy duty truck repair place you can find the ferals there.
That fitting sure looks like the vac. advance on a V8 Ford 1949 - 53 they are special and Napa has them .......
Kieth if you turn that nut around the way it should go then it can be put on simply with a spanner wrench
Mark L you really can’t put these nuts on backwards. If you do it will flatten the fingers of the washer against the bearing. And the tool won’t catch.
I kept watching, certain that you'd realize those Timken nuts were backwards....nope. Like Les Bender mention, it may not matter, but if it were my Monarch I'd want them in there correctly.
Did I miss you setting the tab washer on the new bronze gear? My question was really that the gear appears not to be running central on the worm (probably an optical illusion, mind), so does it need shimming out a bit? Shame if it wears too quickly because of slight misalignment. I did note the safety locking bar rather excluded the use of your nice new socket, without removal of said bar!
You might find that some diesel injector lines have the correct fitting for your oil line problem. Or your local hydraulic cylinder repair shop could help.
RAB
R Balderson g
We have a new word to add to our vocabulary. All day long, I run into the mess that Ding-Dongs create.
You just follow their Pecker Tracks to their source and start fixing things the right way.
"Wore slap out" - "some folks are ding dongs" - beginning to think we were cut from the same bolt of fabric. :-)
Check your local Napa Auto Parts store, I have gotten small air fittings for my Peterbilt Air switch for the shifter.
Will you git the machine done this year? !!! Good luck!
The big box hardware stores have a very limited selection. Check the old time hardware stores while you are put during your travels
You put both nuts on backwards- the bevel part goes against the lock tab.
Is there a name for that special nut? Seems like a mighty secure system and a very strong driver.
pmresearch.com stocks 3/32 tubing and fittings which could be used to refurbish the oiling system
oiler parts, brand name is Bijur
I would set that apron on my mantle just to admire it.
Jim KK4VKZ g
I'd investigate whether 1/8" copper tube and olives would fit. Readily available and inexpensive.
13:49 on the oil like in the upper left, do I see a small hole in the line just above the fitting?
I was just about writing the same thing. It looks like there is a hole in that line that is perpendicular to the saddle.
saw the same thing
me too 😀
do you have to remove the interlock assembly to tighten the locknut Keith .....nice edit ... you have already tightened it .......lol
Wouldn't it be a simple enough job to make a new brass olive, have made these myself in the past and they work fine? Fiddly but pretty quick and a lot cheaper than 50 bucks.
even a bit of graphited string would work, it works on the steam stuff
Aren't those little fittings for those oil lines frustrating, I ran into that on something that I built in the past, took me a while to nail down the correct size and find them
Warning ! keith uses harsh language...if you are a ding dong and you are offended....erm, lol
that comment broke me up - I love southern humor....
I had some choice words in mind when I saw some of the crimes committed against this lathe in it's past lifetime...considerably harsher than what Keith mentioned. I'm sure the miracle of video editing removed some of the more colorful language.
@matthew or watch doubleboost and get it with both barrels! lol
10:40 for his Canadian-level rage.
we must make fun of keith and suggest his father or mother must have been part canadian!
I would’ve drilled out the old rubbing from the fitting and stretch it and see if it could be reused. 🤔
Can you replace brass fitting to accept more common size nut and ferrule and pipe ? Just a thought !
Hey why don't you chamfer the worm keyway to stop chaffing the brass bushing?
Make sure you order more than one of those fittings . . . . .
on the video it looks like there should be round thrust plates behind the two cam levers on the front. arent there screwholes visible to fasten them? cheers.
I realize this is an old video, but I had a question of curiosity: That brass worm gear seems to engage in only a fractional part of the worm. Is that normal? Is there a reason for the shallow contact? It seems it would cause rapid wear in the worm-gear combination.
@13:46 Is that a hole in the vertical feed line or just a black mark?
Thanks. What is that extra-special socket wrench called?
What did you do to clean the metering units out? From the oiling system.
The ferule is easily made on a lathe. It's not a complicated part.
yep and its not really doing anre pressure work, its mostly a drip system
There is a hole in the pipe on the left handside just above the connection @time 13.50sec. Did you notice it?
15:00 looks like there a whole in that line and other side smash you probly already saw it and know it not a problem but atleast post just incase
When we had shafts made, we learned to require the job shop to supply nuts with them. That way they made it right. BTW the latest Chinese made ones were NOT standardized. His cheap ones fit, our quality ones didn't. Yes I know there are metric as well as standard.
"Why would anyone put the wrong woodruf key in?" Probably lost the right one, put in anything to get the lathe back in operation and got used to the wobble and never looked back. I have seen this in the past where folks make a quick temporary fix with intentions of doing it right and never get back to doing it right.
you can reuse the furel if you drill the tubing out using a bit smallrt than the tube then use a long taper punch to re open the furel
pretty
If these are standard 5/32" oil lines, I have a bunch of ferrules, etc. from my Bridgeport (complete) replumbing I could spare to you. I agree you should redo the plumbing, and the flow restrictors, these are likely completely jammed up. Bijur parts are $$$ I used Lube USA they work great. www.fluidlinesystems.net/
There's tight and there's Feckin tight
Not trying to be critical but the bearing nut was installed wrong.
What kind of oil do you use when assembling machines?
probably way oil, he will have plenty due to running lathes a lot, its nice and thick and clingy
That was my guess... but I'm a novice in everything oil related, there's so many options! Thank you
Some people are indeed ding dongs! ha
They put the wrong on on because it was the end of the shift and he wanted to leave or it was the beginning of the shift and he had a hangover.
Mom!!! Keith is using bad language again. Calling people Ding Dongs.
Cut the fitting off the broken off piece, punch out the rest and reuse it!
could you not just drill out the olive and re crush it?
he could perhaps use soft copper wire, its not under any pressure barely at all,
Putting that nut on backwards, turn it around, Please---!!!
Looking good ...thanks for sharing..;-p