It’s been 2-3 weeks since I’ve had this horn. I’m really enjoying it and the sound is actually nice with a bit of practice. Out of the box, the valves are alittle stiff so some valve oil will do, but it’s much more preferable to clean the horn first if you can. I gave the horn a bath after a week of using it, and afterwards, the feeling is immaculate. The valves are much smoother, and the overall feeling is much more refreshing and immaculate post-bath. Although one ought to take note that the 3rd valve arm screws tend to loosen up more frequently than the others so that’s one thing to take note but it rarely happens anyway. Also, some tuning slides are much tighter than the others despite how much you grease it. The first valve tuning slide in particular is the tightest-idk if that’s how it’s supposed to be, but just pointing it out-, second is the main Bb tuning slide but it’s negotiable if you add more slide grease to it, the second valve tuning slide is the “normal one” among the others, and the 3rd valve tuning slide is wee-but slidey and slippery so I suggest you lube this one with less slide grease than the others. I actually got it for 187.56 USD instead of 200+ USD and even got free shipping thanks to the 10.10 promo of the online shop I got it from (Lazada, Seller: Ammoon) and boy gotta say amazing deal that I couldn’t miss so I bought it in a heartbeat and ZERO regrets so far. Another thing I love about it is the case that it comes with-solid case for a cheap horn. I’m a beginner and I’ve had a great experience with this horn, so therefore it’s very beginner friendly.
My horn doesn’t even have a detachable bell 😂 and no water key is no problem, they are obsolete anyways as so much spit builds up that it’s much more efficient to just empty from the tuning slides
I was so excited to get my H181 and have water keys...then they were utterly USELESS! ROFL! There are just too many twists and turns out babies to get the water out through that small key.
Actually, most horns are in Bb (or double horns in Bb/F). Altough, as you rightly said, sheet music is in F, so players need to transpose. Altough most horn players will just learn the F-fingerings, without knowing that they are transposing (at first). I think in the US, they do it the other way around (F single horns or F/Bb double horns), but this is the way we do it in Europe. Source: Am a horn player, I play on a Bb/A horn.
I can indeed confirm that in the US you'd be hard-pressed to find a horn in Bb by default-- almost all double horns are pitched in bass F with a trigger that pitches it in tenor Bb. I didn't know it was the other way for European horns, that's quite neat.
As a US horn player, I can also confirm that most US horns stand in F. However there are many Bb student horns floating around at least in my area, and I own one myself. One thing to note is that most US horns are built to be reversible depending on the wrap, letting the owner change the function of the trigger. My personal horn stands in F while my instructor has changed all his to the German/European tradition of standing in Bb including his descant Bb/F Alto.
I found out I was transposing after like 10 years of playing the french horn. My mind was absolutely blown, lmao. To this day I mostly play on the Bb side of my horn, and use the F horn for low notes (and G's because G's on the Bb side are horribly out of tune for most people)
i'm a french horn player and i go to an american public middle school where they provide french horn players $4,000 french horns. it's crazy. this cheap french horn fascinates me very much.
What some students do is buy a cheap horn for practicing at home and just leave the school's instrument at the school. So you don't have to lug a horn back and forth.
The horn sounds great 👍 perfect for a beginner and intermediate horn players! I have played this horn for 2 years before upgrading to a double pro horn!
I have a Bb horn, obviously Chinese, about $325, no name on it. It has the fourth valve (thumb). Had it about 6 years now and enormously enjoy playing it. I wish I could afford a better one, but I feel very blessed to have this one. I take comfort in knowing that Dennis Brain did most of his solo concerts on a Bb single horn. I'd rather have the upper register, which the Bb horn provides than the lower register, which the F horn or double horn would provide, so I'm happy. Thank you for this review.
Actually, the bulk of horn repertoire is written in a plethora of keys. This is due to the natural horn being the standard instrument until the late 1800s. Horn players originally rejected valves because they fundamentally changed the sound of the horn until Romantic-era composers forced the issue. Look up Hand Stopping if you want to know why. In fact, that Mozart concerto was originally written to be played on a natural horn and hand stopped. Also, it is worth any horn player's time to learn how to read music in F and play it on the B-flat horn as one half of the double horn is in that key and if you are a high horn player, you'd spend most of your time on the b-flat side of the horn. If you want to get into orchestral playing, well, then you need to learn how to read just about every key and play it on a F/Bb double.
+dzcomposer When I was learning to play horn as a fairly casual "double", I just came up with fingerings that gave me the best intonation and tone, and in the situations where one had to be compromised in favor of the other, I needed to have two options. I knew in principle which side of the horn I was using, but in practice I just thought of the thumb as part of a four-valve fingering combination and would switch back and forth between the two sides within a single line. Occasionally I'd have to break out a fingering I didn't ordinarily prefer to make a slur work.
It's been 7 months since I last bought the instrument. There's small dots of corrosion despite how regularly I maintain the instrument (bathed and maintained atleast 1-2 times a month) though I have to say it could be oiled with such frequency (I oil and lube it every bath, and it runs well until the next bath and maintenance session.) Soundwise, it sounds as good as it did the first time it was played out of the box. But it obviously improved the better I got at playing the instrument. Great horn for beginners indeed.
Well, he’s already put grease on it in the video, and it doesn’t seem to have gotten stuck, so I don’t see the issue. Generally, a good grease with the correct viscosity will not make screw threads stick.
Depends on the quality of the grease and/or the time it is left there. A little bit of very light oil can be a better choice, which is also good for the screw on caps on the bottom of trumpet piston valve casings and such.
I will be, I'm purchasing this exact horn, hope it will be as good as it is. Someone reviewed that it came with a dent in the horn, so I'm not sure haha
This horn looks remarkably like an Ammoon that I have, down to the case and the colour of the cloth that comes with it, which makes me wonder if it was made at the same factory and just given a different brand. If so, what can you say about the tuning issues and the difficulty of playing anything higher than concert f4? I find both to be a pain, even comparing to other Chinese horns I've tried.
@@FacePomagranate it is? Well, then I should tell anyone considering buying this horn, that the lacquer started coming off after the first time I washed it. Also, tuning slides had some corrosion. They've stayed clean after I have polished them, but still. Of course, it is possible that horns that go through this brand have a better quality control (I have heard Wessex Tubas started out by returning whole shipments back to Jim Bao, if they were substandard), but when it comes to the playing properties, I'd still suggest going for an Alexander Eastman or a Jupiter, because in my experience this horn actually makes it more difficult to play, and that's the last thing a beginner needs.
@@danikainq6494 Unfortunately i didn't read this comment when i bought the horn. It's quite difficult to play high on this horn if i may add, seems to not resonate on high A (in F) for me. I've tried other's horn and doesn't encounter this problem. I guess if you play 2nd horn, this might be usable, but better off buying 2nd horn
It’s normal for detachable bells to be really loud. Even my $7000 Alex 103 will squeak really loudly if I don’t clean/oil the rig. I heard graphite is a good “lubricant” for the screw that won’t get gunky like oil will.
I have a Bb horn much like that one. Bought it almost new from an individual for $325, about all I could afford. It has no name on it, and I can only assume it was made in China. It has an "A" compensating thumb valve. I'm very satisfied with it, and hugely enjoy playing it in church worship ensembles. Been playing about 6 years now, self-taught. This instrument transposes up a 5th, just the same as the F horn.
I'm a junior in college and have only had to play on a horn tuned in Bb once. However that was a descant which is tuned in Bb but has a trigger to put it in high F.
Was the piece you were playing at the end Old Joe Clark? Because I play horn and I played that piece with 2 of my flute friends at a solo and ensemble festival!
@@newclarence Ohhhhhhhh yeahhhhh that's what it is! It was audition music for an honor band, and even though I didn't try out, kids from my class would practice by performing in front of the rest of the class so that's why it sounded so familiar. Thank you for telling me!
Hi Trent, I recently bought a second-hand 'Jacob Smith' Bb/F Horn, it works quite well. I suppose it is Chinese made, do you have any comments about this Brand? Regards Dave C
I have a chinese Bb french horn, after practicing the Tenor (alto) horn for 6 month, I could play it after some trial and error. If you think of it as a Bb instrument you can just use trumpet fingering but it will be an octave lower. Only reason why the fingering looks different is the fingering charts are for playing F transposing music
Cool! Trent, you`re reading this little piece of music, aren't you? Is it written for trumpet or for french horn? are you "thinking" as french horn player here?
A good use for a cheap horn for a student is to keep it at home for practice while leaving the better horn at school. it eliminates having to lug an instrument back and forth.
It sounds like what single Bb Horn should sound like. I'm sure the included mouthpiece is the typical dumpster fire, and you've got a whopping 4lbs of horn, so there's only so much potential. If you want to broaden it a little bit more, a nice trick is to tune the 3rd valve slide so that concert F is in tune on 1+3. Then use 1+3 and 2+3 as often as you can get away with it. More tubing, more better. Not so good if you actually use 3 instead of 1+2 on a regular basis, though.
If you want a possible quick fix to get a slightly better tone on a french horn, put the mouthpiece more on the top lip and less on the bottom (2/3 top: 1/3 bottom). Also, the embouchure is more of a "pucker" but not a very drastic one and the hand does a lot too! Can't tell from this angle though :)
I wonder if you could mod it slightly and improve the instrument inexpensively? Strip the laquer (which may be adding stuffiness to the tone), exchange the bell and lead pipe?
yea i think he got the copy in "C" as the part says "Horn in Eb" (for natural Horn) so he probably read it like it is in "C" and of course the horn is in Bb and therefore its in Bb.
I was reluctant about this horn, but sound is nice and in tune. A deep open bore mouthpiece will add to tone color. Trenton, no vibrato on a french horn, keep in mind.
The main problem with this horn is the lack of a stopping valve. On a single Bb this would be a thumb operated valve and the tuning slide would be the same length as the second valve on an F horn (between the length of the 1st and second valve on the Bb horn).
If you're just learning, stopping isn't a huge concern. I'd assume that if you were playing this horn and became a serious horn player, you would buy a higher quality double.
@@malthuswasright If you don't have a low F side you do, as the normal stopping transposition only works on that. Plenty of high horn players have single Bb or Double Bb with either a descant Eb or descant F side in place of the low F side.
In Europe most 'single' horns are Bb, the players just learn to read in F and learn those fingerings. The 'double' horns that pros use are Bb-F horns, The Bb horn as the main tubing with an F side being opened by a seperate rotor valve. Again, maybe a slight culture difference between Europe and NZ/USA. As for this instrument, an actually decent instrument without major problems? WHAAAAAT? That's... incredible, tbh.
Great review, Trent! I was very encouraged and you had me right up to your comment that the fingering schema will be different for trumpet players. Can you please explain that a little further? Does the usual Bb trumpet fingering not apply to this instrument? Also, as a Bb instrument, I'm assuming that it plays in the baritone/euphonium octave and not the trumpet octave. Is that correct? Thank you, Trent.
Hi Gary, the music for a French horn is in F, not in Bb, so when you try to read the music you need to press different valve combinations down to get the correct pitch.
Thank you, Trent. Very much appreciated. But one would be able to play baritone/euphonium music "as written", wouldn't they? I'm assuming this instrument is pitched in the baritone/euphonium octave, as opposed to the trumpet octave.
@@GaryBadger Yes, the instrument is in the baritone octave, and yes, you could play music written for a Bb instrument using the same fingering as a Bb instrument, although there are some notes that you'll need to use alternative fingerings for as the oddities of the french horn design results in some untunefulness.
As far as the tone quality goes on these chinese imports, there is so much that depends on the player. I have worked for 25 years on my tone, and still do every time I play. Bb horns are much more popular and suitable for the European horn student as that is their preferred method of teaching, however here in the States we generally start on an F horn. That being said, I would shy away from any single horn as the learning curve is so short for beginning students before it is inevitably time to find a double horn. This horn seems worth the money though for parts alone. That bell ring appears to be quite solid, and well worth the money IF it is name brand compatible. An Alexander bell ring can be found for as little as $100 USD. The taper and the thread are the main factors to consider when looking at bell rings. I'm a bit disappointed that you didnt say anything about a case. Was it included with the horn? What was the quality? All in all my experience with Chinese import horns is that they play great at first, but even with regular care and maintenance they tend to wear faster than name brand instruments. I hope this is not the case with this horn. Cheers
It’s in Bb like what’s the point I’m sorry. As you said it’s a student model so why would you give a beginner an F instrument in Bb it doesn’t make sense.
musicalaviator transposing is free. And I play trumpet and whenever I pick up a french horn at school to mess around I have no problem with it just write in the few fingerings that are different
musicalaviator it would be easier for a trumpet player to play a F horn because the fingerings are fundamentally the same. Transposition issues come into play when you have a Bb horn. Bb horn just makes life harder for everyone.
@@eminemscholar1890 Bit hard to pick up a Horn and adjust some fingering if you don't have a horn. Playing French horn parts on Trumpet is no fun. $200 French horn could be fun. Don't care what key it's in. We play Mahler Trumpet in F stuff all day on Bb trumpets. Find any F french horns for under $200usd lately?
musicalaviator they’re like all the same just right in the 3 or 4 that’s different. And I’d play horn on trumpet before dropping $200 on the Bb french horn
I honestly think the tone is your fault. A french horn players embechure is one of the most unique ones, due to its deep cup and small diameters. Commonly, people will play with "trumpet" style air and get a sound like one
Curiosity: If this horn is tuned/keyed in b-flat, and if a trumpet is likewise there tuned, what dificulty is presented? I assume, by this, that you mean the horn is set op so that the primary fundamental (open valve) is b-flat. But would that not be like a trumpet? I'm a so so trumpet player who's always been fascinated by the french horn.
@@dakotahrickard yes, but almost exclusively in the F side, there are many videos demonstrating the low register of the horn, and there are many pieces exploiting that register too, Sarah Willis comes to mind when thinking about low horn players.
@@joseojeda665 Thanks. As I said in my original comment: I've always loved the horn and would love to find some way to begin a journey with that instrument. Even learning a little more about it fills me with peace and with a sense of wonder.
Local music stores wanted $100 (U.S. Dollars) per month to rent a single French Horn. I bought my 11 year old son a early 1980's King 1159 Double French Horn (with case) on ebay for $450. It has a few dings and scratches, but the valves are in good shape and it plays well. I am hoping he can play that horn all through high-school.
I've heard that the French horn, like the oboe and organ, is a very difficult instrument to learn to play. But being that this particular instrument is so cheap, and that the French horn plays in the treble clef like my Bb trumpet and flugelhorn, it may be worth my while to add it to my repertoire of brass instruments. Learning a new fingering chart is absolutely no problem, providing that it is in the treble clef. 😉 🎼
The way a horn works: F horn has approximately 12 ft of tubing Bb horn has approximately 8 ft of tubing Bb Trumpet has approximately 4 ft of tubing What this does is changes the fundamental (Pedal) pitch of the horn. As you are moving up through the range of the horn the partials get closer together (refer to the harmonic scale). The reason that hornists tend to play in the upper register on the Bb side is that there are fewer partials and therefore greater pitch accuracy. This is because the fundamental of the horn is a 5th higher than an F horn and when playing any particular note you aren't as far up the harmonic scale on a Bb horn as you are on a F horn. Dvorak 5th symphony is a perfect example... the 1st horn part has a very tricky and technical passage about 1/2 way through the last movement. But if you switch to the F side and hold down your second valve you can play it quite easily by just changing the partials (natural horn)... Dvorak was a horn player and as such wrote music with natural horns in mind.
@@gonnabehannahsdad Yes, the tubing is one octave lower than the Bb trumpet but the "natural" pitch of the Bb horn is the same as the Bb trumpet, meaning that, in comparison with a trumpet player, a French horn player usually plays an octave higher above it's pedal note than a trumpet player. As a consequence, the harmonics are closer to each other than on a trumpet.
It sounds like it is quite a narrow throat, like pre 1930s horns, called "pea shooters". I think you put too much weight on the fact that it is a single Bb, in europe most horn players play most of the time on the Bb side of the horn. The F horn tradition is Anglo-American + Vienna. F horns are warmer, but Bb horns can also sound great. My real question is what on earth did they make it out of to be that price and is it safe?
I would argue that the B-flat pitch is a big issue for students who buy this horn. Fingering charts for single horn are in F (unless you specifically search for B-flat fingerings), and many band directors will not know what's going wrong when the "right" fingering produces the wrong note. These companies like B-flat horns because they have shorter tubing and are, thus, easier to produce. To anyone buying a cheap student horn, make sure it's in F if it's a single horn, or F/B-flat if it's a double horn - you'll save yourself a lot of headache. And be wary of cheap double horns, because they're sometimes just B-flat horns with a compensating trigger and are made of lies. I was impressed that the cheap horn had a screw bell, though.
Is it okay to use a double horn chart? Since it has both Bb and F fingerings, I just need to look at the Bb part and ignore the extra 4th lever. Does that mess things up or not?
@@choojunwyng8028 If the double horn chart has both sets of fingerings for every note, then that would be a good workaround. There are some low notes, however, that cannot be hit by a B♭ horn, ever. That means that a student MUST buy a better horn once they progress far enough, unlike a student-level F or F/B♭ horn, which could play any piece. And since horns actually used in performance will be F or F/B♭, the student would have to relearn fingerings for about half of the notes, which is extra effort for no real gain. I am VERY biased against B♭ single horns, by the way - they aren't used at a concert level, and that pitch level is chosen for cost-cutting not for quality. B♭ marching horns are fine, but concert horns are written for in F.
@@choojunwyng8028 Because they're cheaper to produce and many people couldn't tell that it was in the wrong key, and thus isn't really usable long-term.
depending on the tuning tendencies and how good or shit they are, this instrument could actually hinder a new player in learning horn, because their ear is going to get used to this instrument's tendencies, and switching to a nicer horn is going to cause intonation problems and endurance problems because the student is going to want to bend the notes to what their ear is used to hearing. I wouldn't recommend this horn based on that fact, plus, learning on a Bb horn is the exact opposite of what many teachers start with, even with double horns many teachers start students only on the F side. Overall not worth the effort to save the money, use a horn your middle/highschool has, and check out lower priced brands like Briz and Houghton Horns. I play on a Briz as a Bachelor of Horn Performance and it works amazingly. not to mention Ion Balu's customer service is impeccable. this isn't paid, just plugging a good company and good dude. Balumusik.com
Trent not complaining about a cheap instrument? No way, the world is ending soon.
Maybe he can't tell the difference
@@jonathanj.4800 Have you watched his videos?
I miss references to Chinesium.
Oh god you predicted the future
@@woffil3644 I must have some talents..haha
"...kind of sounds like the death agonies of a pterodactyl." What a classic description! Bravo!
The sound of meetal scraping on meetal.
I thought that proved that Trent is actually Don Was, and he used to walk the dinosaur.
So normal horn?
How does he know what a dying pterodactyl sounds like? He's not that old, is he?
Or a *Pteranodon*
The key of 'if'
😂
It’s been 2-3 weeks since I’ve had this horn. I’m really enjoying it and the sound is actually nice with a bit of practice. Out of the box, the valves are alittle stiff so some valve oil will do, but it’s much more preferable to clean the horn first if you can. I gave the horn a bath after a week of using it, and afterwards, the feeling is immaculate. The valves are much smoother, and the overall feeling is much more refreshing and immaculate post-bath. Although one ought to take note that the 3rd valve arm screws tend to loosen up more frequently than the others so that’s one thing to take note but it rarely happens anyway. Also, some tuning slides are much tighter than the others despite how much you grease it. The first valve tuning slide in particular is the tightest-idk if that’s how it’s supposed to be, but just pointing it out-, second is the main Bb tuning slide but it’s negotiable if you add more slide grease to it, the second valve tuning slide is the “normal one” among the others, and the 3rd valve tuning slide is wee-but slidey and slippery so I suggest you lube this one with less slide grease than the others.
I actually got it for 187.56 USD instead of 200+ USD and even got free shipping thanks to the 10.10 promo of the online shop I got it from (Lazada, Seller: Ammoon) and boy gotta say amazing deal that I couldn’t miss so I bought it in a heartbeat and ZERO regrets so far. Another thing I love about it is the case that it comes with-solid case for a cheap horn. I’m a beginner and I’ve had a great experience with this horn, so therefore it’s very beginner friendly.
My horn doesn’t even have a detachable bell 😂 and no water key is no problem, they are obsolete anyways as so much spit builds up that it’s much more efficient to just empty from the tuning slides
Yea, mine isn’t either
I am switching from trombone to french horn, and the french horn I am using don't have a water valve
I agree
I was so excited to get my H181 and have water keys...then they were utterly USELESS! ROFL! There are just too many twists and turns out babies to get the water out through that small key.
I use a Holton Farkas double horn
Super enjoyable, as always, Trent. Keep up the excellent work, and your fabulous sense of dry humor.
Actually, most horns are in Bb (or double horns in Bb/F). Altough, as you rightly said, sheet music is in F, so players need to transpose. Altough most horn players will just learn the F-fingerings, without knowing that they are transposing (at first).
I think in the US, they do it the other way around (F single horns or F/Bb double horns), but this is the way we do it in Europe.
Source: Am a horn player, I play on a Bb/A horn.
same for me
Haha easier done than said
I can indeed confirm that in the US you'd be hard-pressed to find a horn in Bb by default-- almost all double horns are pitched in bass F with a trigger that pitches it in tenor Bb. I didn't know it was the other way for European horns, that's quite neat.
As a US horn player, I can also confirm that most US horns stand in F. However there are many Bb student horns floating around at least in my area, and I own one myself. One thing to note is that most US horns are built to be reversible depending on the wrap, letting the owner change the function of the trigger. My personal horn stands in F while my instructor has changed all his to the German/European tradition of standing in Bb including his descant Bb/F Alto.
I found out I was transposing after like 10 years of playing the french horn. My mind was absolutely blown, lmao. To this day I mostly play on the Bb side of my horn, and use the F horn for low notes (and G's because G's on the Bb side are horribly out of tune for most people)
i'm a french horn player and i go to an american public middle school where they provide french horn players $4,000 french horns. it's crazy. this cheap french horn fascinates me very much.
What some students do is buy a cheap horn for practicing at home and just leave the school's instrument at the school. So you don't have to lug a horn back and forth.
Nothing will beat getting a 130 dollar double horn I can tell you that.
Lol I'm know right
What about $100?
The horn sounds great 👍 perfect for a beginner and intermediate horn players! I have played this horn for 2 years before upgrading to a double pro horn!
Amazing video!!! If you happen to find the worlds cheapest tuba do you think you could do the same?
BigMitch2020 Augenstein thing is, the most inexpensive tubas are still in the early USD 1,000 area from what I've seen
Ikr
That would probably be the plastic one. I wouldn't recommend it.
I think he already did a worlds cheapest tuba video.
It’s a glory tuba on amazon 800$
I have a Bb horn, obviously Chinese, about $325, no name on it. It has the fourth valve (thumb). Had it about 6 years now and enormously enjoy playing it. I wish I could afford a better one, but I feel very blessed to have this one. I take comfort in knowing that Dennis Brain did most of his solo concerts on a Bb single horn. I'd rather have the upper register, which the Bb horn provides than the lower register, which the F horn or double horn would provide, so I'm happy. Thank you for this review.
Actually, the bulk of horn repertoire is written in a plethora of keys. This is due to the natural horn being the standard instrument until the late 1800s. Horn players originally rejected valves because they fundamentally changed the sound of the horn until Romantic-era composers forced the issue. Look up Hand Stopping if you want to know why. In fact, that Mozart concerto was originally written to be played on a natural horn and hand stopped.
Also, it is worth any horn player's time to learn how to read music in F and play it on the B-flat horn as one half of the double horn is in that key and if you are a high horn player, you'd spend most of your time on the b-flat side of the horn. If you want to get into orchestral playing, well, then you need to learn how to read just about every key and play it on a F/Bb double.
+dzcomposer
When I was learning to play horn as a fairly casual "double", I just came up with fingerings that gave me the best intonation and tone, and in the situations where one had to be compromised in favor of the other, I needed to have two options. I knew in principle which side of the horn I was using, but in practice I just thought of the thumb as part of a four-valve fingering combination and would switch back and forth between the two sides within a single line. Occasionally I'd have to break out a fingering I didn't ordinarily prefer to make a slur work.
If you get a single horn here in the good ol' U.S. of A., it's almost always gonna be in F, not B-flat.
It's been 7 months since I last bought the instrument. There's small dots of corrosion despite how regularly I maintain the instrument (bathed and maintained atleast 1-2 times a month) though I have to say it could be oiled with such frequency (I oil and lube it every bath, and it runs well until the next bath and maintenance session.)
Soundwise, it sounds as good as it did the first time it was played out of the box. But it obviously improved the better I got at playing the instrument. Great horn for beginners indeed.
As you are aweer, most French horns are in the key of "if" ;)
Don't put grease on the bell 🤦♂️ that'll freeze the bell and it'll be permanently stuck together
Well, he’s already put grease on it in the video, and it doesn’t seem to have gotten stuck, so I don’t see the issue. Generally, a good grease with the correct viscosity will not make screw threads stick.
Not true. Been doing it for decades on different horns.
Depends on the quality of the grease and/or the time it is left there. A little bit of very light oil can be a better choice, which is also good for the screw on caps on the bottom of trumpet piston valve casings and such.
0:11 Horn Cencerto in Eb/Bb - Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
And thank you for the advice on bass trombone a while back it has really worked and helped.
Just out of curiosity, are you sure the bad tone quality isn't due to you as a player being inexperienced with French Horns?
Could be that it's made out of Chinesium instead of brass that creates the questionable tone.
It's very possible, of course. I don't tend to associate with many french horn players so I can't check.
I don't blame you. They are only one step away from the woodwind section and saxophonists.
One step away from woodwind is ok, but never compare the French horn to a Saxophone (or Tenor horn)!
(A tenor horn is an Eb Saxhorn, so only one step from a saxophone)
Any French Horn players 🙋🙋🙋
I will be, I'm purchasing this exact horn, hope it will be as good as it is. Someone reviewed that it came with a dent in the horn, so I'm not sure haha
Me uwu
Does anyone know about the brand Mason? Is that any good?
He y. Also I’m dead that Trent is I trod yes to the pain of not having a spit valve.
I got that f horn
This horn looks remarkably like an Ammoon that I have, down to the case and the colour of the cloth that comes with it, which makes me wonder if it was made at the same factory and just given a different brand. If so, what can you say about the tuning issues and the difficulty of playing anything higher than concert f4? I find both to be a pain, even comparing to other Chinese horns I've tried.
Danika Inq it is very common for different companies to buy instruments from the same factories so it’s possible
According to the link in the description, it is an Ammoon.
@@FacePomagranate it is? Well, then I should tell anyone considering buying this horn, that the lacquer started coming off after the first time I washed it. Also, tuning slides had some corrosion. They've stayed clean after I have polished them, but still. Of course, it is possible that horns that go through this brand have a better quality control (I have heard Wessex Tubas started out by returning whole shipments back to Jim Bao, if they were substandard), but when it comes to the playing properties, I'd still suggest going for an Alexander Eastman or a Jupiter, because in my experience this horn actually makes it more difficult to play, and that's the last thing a beginner needs.
@@danikainq6494 Unfortunately i didn't read this comment when i bought the horn. It's quite difficult to play high on this horn if i may add, seems to not resonate on high A (in F) for me. I've tried other's horn and doesn't encounter this problem. I guess if you play 2nd horn, this might be usable, but better off buying 2nd horn
FRENCH HORN PART 2 PLS!
Love the hair dude
1:07 - 5 years ago it was "between $150-$170 US dollars." Now it's $344.
Use graphite to lubricate the detachable bell. Just rub the tip of a pencil along the threads. No noise, no greasy residue or build-up.
I like the "pretend leather cover" for the hand area. I've seen cows with a pretend plastic cover.
I play trumpet and I am entering 7th grade and I don’t know if I should switch to French horn or euphonium plz help
It’s normal for detachable bells to be really loud. Even my $7000 Alex 103 will squeak really loudly if I don’t clean/oil the rig. I heard graphite is a good “lubricant” for the screw that won’t get gunky like oil will.
Mine is old i believe. It has some weird design choises and is quite difficult to play some notes.
Awesome video Trent
I play tuba, but any of your videos are fun to watch
I have a Bb horn much like that one. Bought it almost new from an individual for $325, about all I could afford. It has no name on it, and I can only assume it was made in China. It has an "A" compensating thumb valve. I'm very satisfied with it, and hugely enjoy playing it in church worship ensembles. Been playing about 6 years now, self-taught. This instrument transposes up a 5th, just the same as the F horn.
I'm a junior in college and have only had to play on a horn tuned in Bb once. However that was a descant which is tuned in Bb but has a trigger to put it in high F.
Was the piece you were playing at the end Old Joe Clark? Because I play horn and I played that piece with 2 of my flute friends at a solo and ensemble festival!
Grandfather's Clock
@@newclarence Ohhhhhhhh yeahhhhh that's what it is! It was audition music for an honor band, and even though I didn't try out, kids from my class would practice by performing in front of the rest of the class so that's why it sounded so familiar. Thank you for telling me!
Hi Trent, I recently bought a second-hand 'Jacob Smith' Bb/F Horn, it works quite well. I suppose it is Chinese made, do you have any comments about this Brand? Regards Dave C
Can you review a contra (the ones they use in DCI)
I have a chinese Bb french horn, after practicing the Tenor (alto) horn for 6 month, I could play it after some trial and error. If you think of it as a Bb instrument you can just use trumpet fingering but it will be an octave lower. Only reason why the fingering looks different is the fingering charts are for playing F transposing music
I bought one for my girlfriend, and It just came in today. Fantastic instrument! I'm going to buy one for myself!
you have inspired me ti buy a french horn... incidentally it's the same As in this video 😂
Cool! Trent, you`re reading this little piece of music, aren't you? Is it written for trumpet or for french horn? are you "thinking" as french horn player here?
I wonder if it sounds better with a better mouthpiece. the one that came with my pocket horn was awful
A good use for a cheap horn for a student is to keep it at home for practice while leaving the better horn at school. it eliminates having to lug an instrument back and forth.
In your opinion what is the best brand to use if you’re serious about playing the french horn and it’s marching counterpart the mellophone?
What is the excerpt he plays? It is driving me nuts!
It sounds like what single Bb Horn should sound like. I'm sure the included mouthpiece is the typical dumpster fire, and you've got a whopping 4lbs of horn, so there's only so much potential. If you want to broaden it a little bit more, a nice trick is to tune the 3rd valve slide so that concert F is in tune on 1+3. Then use 1+3 and 2+3 as often as you can get away with it. More tubing, more better. Not so good if you actually use 3 instead of 1+2 on a regular basis, though.
If you want a possible quick fix to get a slightly better tone on a french horn, put the mouthpiece more on the top lip and less on the bottom (2/3 top: 1/3 bottom). Also, the embouchure is more of a "pucker" but not a very drastic one and the hand does a lot too! Can't tell from this angle though :)
Wait is that horn just the double horn without the normal f-tube?
Using pencil led is better for the detachable screw bell than lube
Graphite
how would one apply it though? I’m curious
I was taught to use pencil graphite on the joints of my flute in the 60's.
I wonder if you could mod it slightly and improve the instrument inexpensively? Strip the laquer (which may be adding stuffiness to the tone), exchange the bell and lead pipe?
Yes, we will inexpensively replace the bell and leadpipe. Our next step will be to inexpensively purchase real estate.
You know that concerto is in Eb not Bb, right?
yea i think he got the copy in "C" as the part says "Horn in Eb" (for natural Horn) so he probably read it like it is in "C" and of course the horn is in Bb and therefore its in Bb.
@@JCA11 yeah, he obviously just read the Eb flat part, and didn't think to transpose it
You know that concerto is in Eb not F, right?
Eb is F.....
Fbb that is
Yes but the instrument is in F, hence why he's playing an F instrument in the key of Bb to get a total of Eb
the price had risen. trying to find a match for - james-bond, for your eyes only
bit of saxophone, bit of trombone, bit of horn in one midi-vst.
The song from the beginning was Mozart?
I was reluctant about this horn, but sound is nice and in tune. A deep open bore mouthpiece will add to tone color. Trenton, no vibrato on a french horn, keep in mind.
hornmatters.com/2012/03/hornmasters-on-vibrato/
The main problem with this horn is the lack of a stopping valve. On a single Bb this would be a thumb operated valve and the tuning slide would be the same length as the second valve on an F horn (between the length of the 1st and second valve on the Bb horn).
A stopping valve? No horn player needs a stopping valve
If you're just learning, stopping isn't a huge concern. I'd assume that if you were playing this horn and became a serious horn player, you would buy a higher quality double.
@@malthuswasright If you don't have a low F side you do, as the normal stopping transposition only works on that. Plenty of high horn players have single Bb or Double Bb with either a descant Eb or descant F side in place of the low F side.
@@martineyles Maybe it's just me but I've never had a problem stopping with the normal transposition on the Bb side. Never had a descant though.
Double french horns are also keyed in Bb, so its not so weird
thank you
In Europe most 'single' horns are Bb, the players just learn to read in F and learn those fingerings. The 'double' horns that pros use are Bb-F horns, The Bb horn as the main tubing with an F side being opened by a seperate rotor valve. Again, maybe a slight culture difference between Europe and NZ/USA.
As for this instrument, an actually decent instrument without major problems? WHAAAAAT? That's... incredible, tbh.
Most doubles are the other way around - main tubing in F, trigger valve for Bb.
The horn is up to $279 now. That's almost double the cost since this video was made.
Amazing playing
Great review, Trent! I was very encouraged and you had me right up to your comment that the fingering schema will be different for trumpet players. Can you please explain that a little further? Does the usual Bb trumpet fingering not apply to this instrument?
Also, as a Bb instrument, I'm assuming that it plays in the baritone/euphonium octave and not the trumpet octave. Is that correct? Thank you, Trent.
Hi Gary, the music for a French horn is in F, not in Bb, so when you try to read the music you need to press different valve combinations down to get the correct pitch.
Thank you, Trent. Very much appreciated. But one would be able to play baritone/euphonium music "as written", wouldn't they? I'm assuming this instrument is pitched in the baritone/euphonium octave, as opposed to the trumpet octave.
@@GaryBadger Yes, the instrument is in the baritone octave, and yes, you could play music written for a Bb instrument using the same fingering as a Bb instrument, although there are some notes that you'll need to use alternative fingerings for as the oddities of the french horn design results in some untunefulness.
@@TrentHamilton Perfect, thank you. You may have just sold me on this.
I've been wondering for a year now..... How much do you get a paid a month and/or year?
As far as the tone quality goes on these chinese imports, there is so much that depends on the player. I have worked for 25 years on my tone, and still do every time I play. Bb horns are much more popular and suitable for the European horn student as that is their preferred method of teaching, however here in the States we generally start on an F horn. That being said, I would shy away from any single horn as the learning curve is so short for beginning students before it is inevitably time to find a double horn. This horn seems worth the money though for parts alone. That bell ring appears to be quite solid, and well worth the money IF it is name brand compatible. An Alexander bell ring can be found for as little as $100 USD. The taper and the thread are the main factors to consider when looking at bell rings. I'm a bit disappointed that you didnt say anything about a case. Was it included with the horn? What was the quality?
All in all my experience with Chinese import horns is that they play great at first, but even with regular care and maintenance they tend to wear faster than name brand instruments. I hope this is not the case with this horn.
Cheers
Is the origin of the opening tag for this video an analogy for the emotion that’s supposed to be invoked by these horns? ;)
It’s in Bb like what’s the point I’m sorry. As you said it’s a student model so why would you give a beginner an F instrument in Bb it doesn’t make sense.
Trumpet players that want to Horn. lol
musicalaviator transposing is free. And I play trumpet and whenever I pick up a french horn at school to mess around I have no problem with it just write in the few fingerings that are different
musicalaviator it would be easier for a trumpet player to play a F horn because the fingerings are fundamentally the same. Transposition issues come into play when you have a Bb horn. Bb horn just makes life harder for everyone.
@@eminemscholar1890 Bit hard to pick up a Horn and adjust some fingering if you don't have a horn.
Playing French horn parts on Trumpet is no fun.
$200 French horn could be fun. Don't care what key it's in. We play Mahler Trumpet in F stuff all day on Bb trumpets.
Find any F french horns for under $200usd lately?
musicalaviator they’re like all the same just right in the 3 or 4 that’s different. And I’d play horn on trumpet before dropping $200 on the Bb french horn
sadly they doubled the price if you are having it sent anywhere except the USA (my fault?)
You should do the worlds cheapest tuba!
I am trying to get one, I played b flat baritone horn at an early age, it looks unique and ornate.
How long did it take to ship
I honestly think the tone is your fault. A french horn players embechure is one of the most unique ones, due to its deep cup and small diameters. Commonly, people will play with "trumpet" style air and get a sound like one
Woah! How long has this channel been monetized?
Curiosity:
If this horn is tuned/keyed in b-flat, and if a trumpet is likewise there tuned, what dificulty is presented?
I assume, by this, that you mean the horn is set op so that the primary fundamental (open valve) is b-flat. But would that not be like a trumpet?
I'm a so so trumpet player who's always been fascinated by the french horn.
Old comment, but the difference is that the horn usual range starts in the fourth harmonic rather than in the second.
@@joseojeda665 Oh gotcha. Can/do people play in the lower register of the horn?
@@dakotahrickard yes, but almost exclusively in the F side, there are many videos demonstrating the low register of the horn, and there are many pieces exploiting that register too, Sarah Willis comes to mind when thinking about low horn players.
@@joseojeda665 Thanks. As I said in my original comment: I've always loved the horn and would love to find some way to begin a journey with that instrument. Even learning a little more about it fills me with peace and with a sense of wonder.
that's how much it would cost to RENT a double horn from my middle school for ONE SCHOOL YEAR.
Local music stores wanted $100 (U.S. Dollars) per month to rent a single French Horn. I bought my 11 year old son a early 1980's King 1159 Double French Horn (with case) on ebay for $450. It has a few dings and scratches, but the valves are in good shape and it plays well. I am hoping he can play that horn all through high-school.
Whats the name of that first horn concerto you played? I’ve always wanted to learn it
Mozart Horn Concerto no. 4 in Eb Major. Movement 3
I've heard that the French horn, like the oboe and organ, is a very difficult instrument to learn to play. But being that this particular instrument is so cheap, and that the French horn plays in the treble clef like my Bb trumpet and flugelhorn, it may be worth my while to add it to my repertoire of brass instruments. Learning a new fingering chart is absolutely no problem, providing that it is in the treble clef. 😉 🎼
This is my first year playing the French horn and I'm getting use to it it's hard at first but then you get use to it
Almost all the fingerings for all tho notes can be played the same that’s why it’s so hard
what is the song of the intro?
AirWatch shirt!!! Hello from AW HQ in Atlanta. It's a small world, isn't it?
Hello! I attended a training many years ago and got a shirt from it.
So is it tuned in Bb lower than standard F Horn (Baritone Bb) or Bb higher (Trumpet Bb)?
The way a horn works:
F horn has approximately 12 ft of tubing
Bb horn has approximately 8 ft of tubing
Bb Trumpet has approximately 4 ft of tubing
What this does is changes the fundamental (Pedal) pitch of the horn. As you are moving up through the range of the horn the partials get closer together (refer to the harmonic scale). The reason that hornists tend to play in the upper register on the Bb side is that there are fewer partials and therefore greater pitch accuracy. This is because the fundamental of the horn is a 5th higher than an F horn and when playing any particular note you aren't as far up the harmonic scale on a Bb horn as you are on a F horn.
Dvorak 5th symphony is a perfect example... the 1st horn part has a very tricky and technical passage about 1/2 way through the last movement. But if you switch to the F side and hold down your second valve you can play it quite easily by just changing the partials (natural horn)... Dvorak was a horn player and as such wrote music with natural horns in mind.
So in short it's an octave below a trumpet
@@gonnabehannahsdad Yes, the tubing is one octave lower than the Bb trumpet but the "natural" pitch of the Bb horn is the same as the Bb trumpet, meaning that, in comparison with a trumpet player, a French horn player usually plays an octave higher above it's pedal note than a trumpet player. As a consequence, the harmonics are closer to each other than on a trumpet.
weird that it's Bb. I want one haha
What’s intro song
Cool, but it’s a shame it’s not in F. I have to wonder what the world’s cheapest double horn would be
It's about $420 USD.
Good to know. From the same seller?
No, tomtop don’t have a double horn.
You can get a compensating double for about £500.
Will you review a cheap euph? I’ve always wanted one but I’m broke
Half tempted to buy one myself now, at that price.
Edit: Ah, Bb. That's an annoying compromise I guess.
It's like playing an F/Bb double horn, except with the Bb trigger permanently stuck on.
Is this a Bb basso or one octave higher?
It's obviously Bb alto. It's a double horn with only the Bb side available
Why does this heels French horn tighten on? The kids at my school walk around with bells already attached to the French horn
is there a thumb trigger
If its a single, no
It sounds like it is quite a narrow throat, like pre 1930s horns, called "pea shooters". I think you put too much weight on the fact that it is a single Bb, in europe most horn players play most of the time on the Bb side of the horn. The F horn tradition is Anglo-American + Vienna. F horns are warmer, but Bb horns can also sound great. My real question is what on earth did they make it out of to be that price and is it safe?
Not a bad tone at all.
Yes it is stop
I would argue that the B-flat pitch is a big issue for students who buy this horn. Fingering charts for single horn are in F (unless you specifically search for B-flat fingerings), and many band directors will not know what's going wrong when the "right" fingering produces the wrong note. These companies like B-flat horns because they have shorter tubing and are, thus, easier to produce. To anyone buying a cheap student horn, make sure it's in F if it's a single horn, or F/B-flat if it's a double horn - you'll save yourself a lot of headache. And be wary of cheap double horns, because they're sometimes just B-flat horns with a compensating trigger and are made of lies. I was impressed that the cheap horn had a screw bell, though.
Is it okay to use a double horn chart? Since it has both Bb and F fingerings, I just need to look at the Bb part and ignore the extra 4th lever. Does that mess things up or not?
@@choojunwyng8028 If the double horn chart has both sets of fingerings for every note, then that would be a good workaround. There are some low notes, however, that cannot be hit by a B♭ horn, ever. That means that a student MUST buy a better horn once they progress far enough, unlike a student-level F or F/B♭ horn, which could play any piece. And since horns actually used in performance will be F or F/B♭, the student would have to relearn fingerings for about half of the notes, which is extra effort for no real gain. I am VERY biased against B♭ single horns, by the way - they aren't used at a concert level, and that pitch level is chosen for cost-cutting not for quality. B♭ marching horns are fine, but concert horns are written for in F.
@@dubtak4976 then why would they produce a horn if it's not really used?
@@choojunwyng8028 Because they're cheaper to produce and many people couldn't tell that it was in the wrong key, and thus isn't really usable long-term.
I wish I could afford a really nice double horn, but they cost as much as my car does. Maybe one day.
Can you do worlds cheapest valved trombone?
Oh God that's how I sounded! Glad it wasn't me after all
Make a video on the fumpet
I already have
Trent Hamilton how did I not know this??? Must watch fumpet video immediately
@@thatoneguymccool1469 Frumpet.
Trent Hamilton ....
Strange seeing a single instead of a double French horn
Try to do a worlds cheapest brass instrument. The cheapest you could find over the whole brass family.
Aidan Weis cheapest brass instrument is gonna be a trumpet no doubt
@@hotwheelsearl yeah.
Okay, but the lack of a stop valve on a single B flat horn would get annoyingly limiting.
The fact the he calls French Horn Friench Horn
the day double horns are less than $100 is when the whole world is going to end
5 years later, it's twice what he said.
depending on the tuning tendencies and how good or shit they are, this instrument could actually hinder a new player in learning horn, because their ear is going to get used to this instrument's tendencies, and switching to a nicer horn is going to cause intonation problems and endurance problems because the student is going to want to bend the notes to what their ear is used to hearing. I wouldn't recommend this horn based on that fact, plus, learning on a Bb horn is the exact opposite of what many teachers start with, even with double horns many teachers start students only on the F side. Overall not worth the effort to save the money, use a horn your middle/highschool has, and check out lower priced brands like Briz and Houghton Horns. I play on a Briz as a Bachelor of Horn Performance and it works amazingly. not to mention Ion Balu's customer service is impeccable. this isn't paid, just plugging a good company and good dude. Balumusik.com