VC / Vinyl Community - A case for ECM records - 10 albums defying expectations
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- Опубліковано 12 бер 2021
- Of late, there's been some talk about how boring or overrated ECM Records is.
I get it, I have my own issues with some of its major trands, but outside of those, there is a wealth of greatness and oddities, way more so than this little showcase.
So get back on the saddle if you are into some of the leftfield sideways of jazz, even the regular ones, because if you dig enough, ECM certainly delivers the goods!
And as usual, lets discuss all that right under here. - Розваги
glad you were able to post this finally, had been looking forward to it. some of course i knew you'd show, but some nice surprises as well. there was an ecm thread going around a few years ago, ill see if I can pull enough records to make a video as well.
Thanks for doing these videos! You did all the hard work testing out these various ECMs. Looking forward to listening and exploring.
Definitely checking out that Frisell and the Hassell. I only have a handful of ECM albums. I never really thought of the label being boring. I am still pretty green in the jazz department. But between going digging with some of the bigger jazz collectors in the VC and watching a lot of videos I have learned a lot. After seeing this I will make it a point to look for ECM titles. Especially the ones that you showed. Outstanding presentation. Thank you for taking the time out to do this one~
Rob/Boston
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Thank you for watching, Rob,. I never dug in Boston, but somehow, that sounds like an interesting venture, since I seldom hear about its music scene. Cheers
Cool vid thanks! And also thanks for recommending Anoushka Chkheidze on one of your vids, I checked her out and wow! Double wow actually!!!
I don't know how high of this I took in the be honest because I'm plugging away in the kitchen. That being said, really enjoyed having a friend dropping some knowledge while I tackle the task at hand.
Excellent pics! I only have a few ECMs, unfortunately I tended to overlook the label in the past. I will be seeking out a bunch of these, especially the Hassell since I already am a fan and have his other records with Eno and prior. Love Bitter Beer, very singular and groovy for sure. I have that live recording you referenced on Black Sweat. The LP on the label that has always blown my mind is Bennie Maupin's "Jewel And The Lotus." A perfect LP. Loved the video.
Thank you so much for hte kind words, I will go check htat Bennie Maupin, as I don't remember it, or even listening to it!
Stunty, very enjoyable video, perfect inspiration for my'' Saturday morning brain''. I missed that Enrico Rava, with the great Bruce Ditmas, thank you for showcasing that one. The ECM label was a huge part of my listening habit, since my ''early'' days. I bought tons of ECM cut-outs for 2 or 3 dollars, when I was in my twenties. I abandoned the label, when I discovered smaller labels, but soon rediscovered the joys of ECM. I really enjoy any ECM release, and worship at the feet of Manfred Eicher! Some of my favorite ECM's were released in the cd only part of their ongoing catalog, both ''jazz'' and the modern classical genres. ECM might seem like a huge ''corporate'' machine, but to me they still sound and ''feel'' like a small private press. As of late, Manfred seems to be focusing on ''older'' American musicians, as well as ''younger', undiscovered Europeans. Manfred is in ''it'', for the love of music!
Very good points, and I probably have a somewhat parallel experience to yours.
As expected, you choose the Cream from the ECM label!! Perfect Choices
There are a few ones there, still under the radar I would say, so I hope this translates into a sort of virtuous circle ^^
Great video, very good incite full opinions, thanks
Great video and a great list of ECM titles! Thanks
Hello! Just making my way over from Alex's video. Wonderful feature here. ECM is my all-time favorite label and has been since the mid 90's, for similar reasons and then some. For me so much of the music is for reverie and stirring one's imagination, yet as you pointed out, has some tension and challenges the listener. And I love that they're always trying different things, often confounding the stereotypes that's been attached to them over the years.
Some great examples here. I don't have 'Vanessa', that one Rava, or 'Bitter Funeral Beer' yet, sound to be wonderful.
Much agreed on Meredith Monk. Talk about someone who created their own musical universe!
Wonderful John Clark. Yes, more should know about that one. That's another thing that always stood out too---the unorthodox instrumental combinations...whether one considers it jazz or not.
'Trance' is one of my all-time favorite albums ever....ECM or otherwise! Love it, and just played it the other day. I tend to often pair that with 'Hotel Hello' by Burton/Swallow in my listening.
Yes, on that Bill Frisell, and really neat seeing that Jon Hassell on LP. Another artist who creates something so singular. I was recently revisiting him too, that album with Brian Eno.
Ah, I actually like Stephan Micus very much, as well as Keith's more personal, sorta oddity recordings. To each their own though, as you say. :-)
Thanks much for sharing this. Really good way to start the day. :-) You and Alex are inspiring me here. I haven't done an ECM-themed video in maybe 5 years, so I'm due for one soon. All the best. Nice to meet you here. -Carm
Hello Carm, funnily enough, I was just watching some of your videos. Seems there is quite some overlapping, even if I might also just slightly be into somewhat harsher sounds 😅 thank you for your elaborate insights on our coming interest and passion for this label. I hope you’ll find more food for ear in some of my other ramblings
Man. Great video. Makes me want to get back into ecm. Thanks
Great video of ECM, a label that I do like, many good things from it over the years, but agree not everything is good.
A terrific selection; some eclectic choices and not a bit boring!
Thanks for sharing, I should've watched that one first haha
Thanks for the video! So much good stuff from ECM thru the years.
I hope you like Nils Petter Molvær and Nik Bärtsch.
Believe it or not, NPM was always a little to clean for my taste. I know that may sound weird, considering that this often is exactly the quality you seek in a ECM record. But, I guess I feel his music is a little too "safe" for my taste. I got his first CD, some 20+ years ago I believe, an d the parallel career he's had with Jon Hassell is intersting one, maybe he only came too late for me? Bärtsch I must cinfess I completely missed. Suggestions? Was any released on vinyl record?
@@StuntrockConfusion Thanks for your opinion but please give NPM another try with his album called “NP3” if you haven’t heard it.
Thanks for asking about Nik Bärtsch, most of his albums are on ECM vinyl. My favourites are Nik Bärtsch’s Mobile “Continuum”
ua-cam.com/video/RL-9lkmCZso/v-deo.html
Nik Bärtsch Ronin “Live” (2CD set only) Bass Guitarist Björn Meyer is amazing:
ua-cam.com/video/jXiUsV0HJRo/v-deo.html
Never heard about EMC but i hear what i like 👍😊
Only have the Old and New Dreams and I have a ton of ECM’s. The Priester, Berger and Hassell records are fantastic and ones I still need to track down. Great video man. Not sure how you got the sound clips in. I tried to sample Vijay Iyer in one of my videos for Alex and UA-cam body slammed it lol.
haha, As I was saying, I did that video with sound clips of all, and it got shut down before I had 4 views. Seven tracks out of ten were flagged, so I used the three ones that sliped through the cracks ;)
But really, all htose are UMHO all worth tracking, either for one fantastic track, or much more. I don't mind getting a record for one track only, and TBH, that's often my favorite kind of record. But I guess that becomes a thing when you reach a certain amount of records. Glad you found interest in this ^^
@@StuntrockConfusion Glad the Priester track got through. Sick bass on that.
@@Localbandography That was indeed a surprise : I would have guessed the Berer, Clark, and Frissell ones would have made it more easily. Ah, at least we got something, hehe
Great list! Especially Old & New Dreams (one of my all-time favorite jazz records), Michael Nauta, and Bengt Berger.
A few other sleepers I think are under appreciated on ECM: John Surman “Upon Reflection”; Steve Eliovson “Dawn Dance”; Rainer Brüninghaus “Freigeweht”; Mike Nock “Ondas”; Tom van der Geld “Path”.
I really dug that first one. I'll have to look that up and dig deeper.
Old & New Dreams and Codona are both must have ECM recordings for me. Like to hear that Priester album. I saw him with David Murray once & he was far out!
Sounds like blast!
I love much of what ECM has to offer. What a lineup on Old and New Dreams. Trance is great. My first from Kuhn.
Love ECM!
I'm watching this with interest, because even though I haven't talked about ECM in a long time, historically, I've talked a lot of shit about them. (I pissed off Ben Costello a couple years ago by saying ECM wasn't a bad jazz label, it was a good new age label. I'm still kind of proud of that one, hahaha.) But it's definitely true that there are some great records on that label: Dave Holland, Marion Brown, and Wolfgang Dauner immediately come to mind (although I *really* need to find a copy of Output someday!). It seemed to me like for a long time, people in the VC just took for granted that the ECM catalogue was a goldmine, and I just didn't (and don't) see it, so I appreciate hearing your opinion on the subject. I'll look into some of these next time I'm on a big jazz kick!
Your feeling isn't that rare. I think there simply are several different angles to approach the label, and not every single one will work for you: I know that if I only heard Corea, Jarrett, Micus, Abercombie, I would probably have skipped it all together... Can't wait for your new age metal vid
When I first started collecting records in earnest in the late 80's/early 90's ecm and it's sister label japo were revelatory for me.
Partly because they were plentiful here and often only a few dollars.
Even the rarer ones now because then you could not give these records away then..lol.
So often I would buy a bunch and keep the ones I really liked and jettison the others.
And eventually I found myself having quite a few..lol..which I still have more than I probably should perhaps.
But your opening salvo priester's love love is one of the most "organic" records ever imo and a complete masterpiece..a wonderful extension of his work with sun ra as you stated as well as herbie hancock's mwandishi perhaps it's most immediate predecessor.
I think his second record polarization is also excellent a different approach than love love but worthy.
Bitter beer is one of the few ecm/japo lp's I still want..always hoped it would turn up in field and it still might.
Great words on trance such a fantastic lp!..I have had several copies over the years as I can not leave it in the bins as it is still incredibly cheap and somebody out there needs it!..😁.
I think monk is terribly underrated and very rarely spoken about compared to other great female artists..I need to pull that out as it has been awhile.
Same with the frisell..I have a private press lp by the drummer chris massey and his group called atmosphere from 1981 with a young bill frisell whose playing is a high point on the lp and even then distinctive..the whole lp actually has an ecm vibe about..still very cheap and the whole lp is yt..might fall too much into the fusion zone for you.
But if you like frisell you might enjoy it imo..like I said it is on yt in full.
I have had a few naura lp's and that remains my favorite of his.
Your speaking truth about ditmas..
But we spoke of him before..such an incredible musician..
I had the hassell on cd at one time and remember it being pretty great.
I like pretty much all his 70's and 80's stuff uniformly..I did not care too much for the lp's you mentioned either..
Do you like the harald weiss lp trommelgefluster?..one of the german only ecm and a recent favorite of mine on the label..
I finally got a copy last year..
Lol..I like rypdal and micus not surprisingly I am sure too you..
But in micus's case I love the ethno stuff anyway..😁.
But with you on Jarrett never understood his appeal too be honest..
Spirits is the only record of his I found remotely interesting.
Anyway I could go on forever on this topic but a great 10 here brother and I appreciate your perspective on the label..much love chris.
I do have Weiss follow up to the one you mentioned, Arche, on Wergo, I love that album. Is the ECM one in the same vein, despite being 3 years apart? I heard some dreadfull stuff of his, but I don't think I ever listened to the ECM one, and the proximity is encouraging.
Thank you so much for your lengthy reply, more appreciated than you can imagine. I'll be checking that private press with Frissell, and it also is great to talk about our different prerspectives, when we are so close ^^
@@StuntrockConfusion I think you will like it..I need arche still..now wergo would be a great label to discuss..one of the best record labels that has existed in my book.
I agree different perspectives keeps things interesting..people may not agree on everything but if there is a mutual respect and understanding it is usually fine..thankfully most of us here are like that..though we cross over on something's and differ on others..I can honestly say out of everyone who makes videos in the vc I feel the greatest kinship with you on terms of dedication discovery and passion and truly seeking music out and being able to share your love for it with not only said passion and knowledge but humor as well.
I consider you someone who truly understands it's power and magic.
From both the perspective of creator and listener.
I think the maxim music is life and life is music applies too you as much as anyone I have known brother..😁..
@@johncoltrane68 ... Difficult to add anything after such kind words. So I will just say that as I/we (may) want to live forever, music is the only thing that actualy is forever, as sound travels for eternity (wait, maybe light too, right?). So not dedicating your whole life to music is... hmmm... yeah, it's probably less scary and hopeless, hahaha
I was really thinking ECM was "boring" like 10 years ago, but I've been accepting it more and more since then, also of course maybe I had only heard the boring albums at first, because I still think, as you say, that a big part of the catalog is pretty boring. I love Meredith Monk and Turtle Dreams is among my favourites aswell. Haven't heard much from her that I don't like, to be honest. Bitter Funeral Beer album is great, maybe I should try to get it before it gets unreachable... Last couple years I've tried Jon Hassel from time to time, but nothing really stuck with me, but I know I will try again. That Enrico Rava mirror cover looks pretty awesome. Some other albums here I haven't heard, will take a listen to Vanessa by Naura while cleaning the bathroom floors now (saturday evening, yes). Is it good bathroom-cleaning-music? Also, have you showed that before? It feels like I might have tried it once already... Great video, as always. Cheers
I'm not sure I have shown Vanessa here before, but I tend to mention it fairly often, as it is almost too funky for my tatse, but somehow, it manages to transcend that. Bathroom floor cleaning is kind of autistic/trainspotter discipline, so it should work out just fine, as it is super tight.
@@StuntrockConfusion It was good enough for me to "accidentally" also clean the kitchen floor while I was at it :) I did really enjoy the bassoon bits! Sadly the bassoonist only seem to have been on classical records otherwise. Btw, one of my favourites on ECM is Robin Kenyatta's Girl From Martinique. That is also almost too funky.
@@unclassifiablemess sounds promising, should be your comeback video
@@StuntrockConfusion My comeback video will be one of me showing my new "record room" I'm currently building/working on. Inspired by Davis home built furniture. Building a shelf right now. Family don't want to hear my noise, oddly enough, lol, so I (finally) get my own room.
@@juliusjabbar1011 Hopefully I will also be able to make more videos in general, being able to close a door behind me!
What’s that record with the ocean at 4:00? I can imagine what chats it was that ECM is boring came up. Lol, the Eberhard Weber and John Surman Selected recordings ( only on CD as far as I know) are two of my favorites, they follow one player, non respective of whether the album is from that artist or not. Really only thing I’ve heard from ECM I didn’t like was Keith Jarrett. Anybody saying all ECM is boring, I’d ask “ have they heard any of the Meredith Monk” edit-oh ok you got Meridith MonkI see.
www.discogs.com/Old-And-New-Dreams-Old-And-New-Dreams/release/2065433
LOL about Meredith Monk, haha. Yes, I a obviously agree with you Shawn, even if my hate list is longer than yours, but at the same time, I also do understand why one would quickly dismiss ECM in 2020, but that would indeed a little lazy. On the other hand, calling ECM exciting and cool maybe would be pushing it, hahaha
No way! I sometimes grab records just because it's on ECM. And I've found some brilliant stuff! Hail Hail ECM!! 🍻
0:55 that's my approach to ECM: I'll blind buy cheaply based on the label and keep what I like & summarily ignore what I don't.
Boy I don't find ECM boring at all. As far as jazz I'm more in the mood for that label than a lot of others--although variety makes the world go round. John Abercrombie, Ralph Towner are amazing guitarist, so is Pat Metheny. I probably have ten plus albums by Metheny and they're all good to my taste. I was listening to Magico last night by Haden, Garbarek, Gismonti, and thought, this is a wonderful album. Barre Phillip's Mountainscapes is a wonderful album, a bit abstract or avant garde, but wonderful nonetheless. The same is true for Art Ensemble of Chicago. Since you like electronic music, did you get Wolfgang Dauner's album, Output? It seems very futuristic, reminding me of movies like THX-1138, etc. Thanks Stunty.
I love Moutainscape, and Barre Phillips probably is my favoite bass player, certainly the one that will get me to check anything with his name in the credits. Dauner is fantastic, but as his stuff was on the sub label of ECM, I didn't include it, but I got most of his output, even if I'm still missing a few key ones.... I'm a tad of a sceptic on Art Ensemble, As I only really love their People in Sorrow. But I own and enjoy their Third Decade on ECM. I guess there were a tad overhyped around me, which riuned them a little for me. But there's still time to correct that! Thank you for your great reply!
By a long way the best ever label, many masterpieces. Just avoid anything with Corea or Abercrombie on them. The Hassell was strong, I'm glad I picked up the vinyl on release, should have picked a bunch of them up!$$$$$$$, although weaker than his seminal 78-83 period. Rypdal's solo efforts on ECM were poor, but in the late 70's, early 80's trio with Vitous and DeJohnette he was terrific.