I think there is an aspect of doing a PhD that hasn't been talked about. PhD positions offer great opportunities for migrating to more developed countries. THey offer great scholarships for people living in underdeveloped counrties (like me) to be able to migrate somewhere else, work on a project they like, and potentially find a job and become a citizen. I know for a fact that this is one of the primary reasons why many international students start doing a PhD.
No mate. It already is almost impossible to stay in another country. Everywhere the rules of immigration have toughened during the last 10 years. I did a PhD in the UK. The only way I could stay over there was through marriage. But even in that case is tough. I have friends that are just getting their permanent residency after 10 years. During those 10 years you are losing plenty of opportunities in your home country. For example, I have 6 almost 7 years in my hometown after returning from the UK. I already own a property, have two cars, a good paid job and I am opening a business. If I would stayed in the UK, forget it mate. I would be in the freezer waiting for my permanent residence permit to clear. Even more, I should have never go to do the PhD. I feel I lost 5 years of my life. It was a good experience, without any doubt, but they are 5 years of lost income and opportunities. It is the cost of opportunity the thing we do not contemplate when taking a decision like this. My phD is useless. It is only a nice diploma stored somewhere in the house, not even hung in a frame on the wall. I do not need it for my actual job and I eran more than a regular PhD.
You can move to another country on a work visa, if you find a job there, and I think it’s a much more straightforward route. A permanent job provides much more stability than a time-limited PhD, while at the same time it’s usually much easier to switch jobs than to switch PhD programs if you want. After X years on a work visa you can usually apply for a permanent residency and then for citizenship.
This is an important point. Those students should be aware that as migrants they have a harder time than citizens to find a job after graduation. There are lots of biases.
Recently got my PhD in Business and Management last February. I absolutely agree with all of your reasonings. Honestly I regret my decision, since I totally burned my saving, career, and mental health to get this fancy title. I was an individual that easy to move on and quite confident, but because of my PhD experience, I have this traumatic memory every time I need to study or pick up something new now. If I could time travel to myself 5 years ago, I would slap me so hard to cancel this PhD journey of mine.
I am on my 7th to 8th year on PhD and my time is on pause mode, my life waiting for dissertation to be over!! And i could play, “resume” thx for sharing that image of slapping back in time travel mode lol
I'm sorry to hear that. Checking - did you have funding/ stipends during the period of study? I notice you mention that you burned through your savings.
@@rameshkrishnan5651. Thanks for the positive thought. I had several research grants during my study, it alleviated my spending, but was not enough. Every PhD program has different cost structure. But in my experience, the biggest spending was because of the tuition cost each semester (about 1800 USD). I needed one Scopus publication before I could advance to the further stage. I had to pay 4 semester until I got a Scopus pass, so I burnt about 12K for covering tuition and social cost in absence.
Your first words in the introduction seemed so relevant to me. I was contemplating adding a Master's to my Open Uni Batchelor's degree, Philosophy with Humanities 2004, but as I'm now 88 years of age I decided not to spend what might be my final few years with my head in books. Thank you.
I am in the Humanities, and I did my PhD because to me nothing feels better than being paid (not much, admittedly) to research a topic I am genuinely interested in, with complete freedom over my schedule. And on top of that I got to travel a lot, which I love. I think it is great for people who do not seek stability: I have to move basically every year (or even less) following this or that scholarship or grant, and to me this is fun and exciting but I understand not everyone likes that. Furthermore, at least in my case I had no office hours and as a matter of fact I had no office at all: this works for me because I'd rather work by myself whenever I want and meet my colleagues only in conferences or seminars, but if you are someone who enjoys interacting with other people every day at work or thrives from a well-established distinction between working hours and free time then you will feel very lonely and lost. This does not mean that I do not like my colleagues: in fact, one of my favourite thing about my PhD and postdoc is that I got to meet so many interesting people who genuinely want to create knowledge together in a friendly environment. In the end, I think that unfortunately we must acknowledge that an experience like mine is feasible only for privileged people who do not have family obligations and have funds to support them in case there is for example a one-month (if not more) gap between one grant and the next. The financial instability is by far the biggest drawback for me.
Do you feel it would have been worth it if you had sacrificed a few years before your PhD to reach some form of financial stability beforehand? I'm looking into pursuing a humanities PhD right now and am trying to figure out how long/if I should work beforehand.
@thomasbailey7145 I genuinely do not know how to answer you, because I started my PhD only a few months after getting my Masters and I did not have many savings. On the one hand, for me it has been an amazing experience and I would do it all over again a million times, so I would say yes, it is worthy. On the other hand, I must be honest and acknowledge that my experience would have been drastically different if my parents had not been there as a safety net. The scholarships were enough to pay rent but of course it is different when you know that your family can cover for you. So, it really depends on your situation: the only advice I can give you is to consider the mobility factor. If you decide to wait until you get some financial stability, maybe you will be at a point in life where travelling so much is not convenient for you anymore, and then you would lose a big part of what made the PhD so exciting for me. But then again I know many doctoral candidates who have kids and such, so it is not impossible.
Do you mind me asking which country you're in, and what field in the humanities did you get your phD for? I'm nearing the end of my undergrad philosophy degree in the US, and slightly discouraged by the competitiveness of the field.
@@sevengaming2179 no problem! I am Italian and I did my PhD between Germany and the UK. My field is Classics. If there is anything else you would like to know, please feel free to ask :)
And no retirement savings..which does not seem a problem until you get into your forties and look around at people retiring with pensions..hmm start saving early even $20 a month..
I just finished my PhD last summer. I wish your channel existed before I started. I probably wouldn’t have put myself through what I did. Too late now I guess. At least I can call interactions with myself doctor’s appointments now.
@@cardinalngandu1035 8 years. I got married in the middle of it and decided spending time with my wife was more important than my dissertation. That probably added about 2 years to it all.
Balance: Yep. Obtaining a PhD should mean that you really, really, really love your subject and want to do it ALL the time. It is a labor of love and one that you need to totally immerse yourself in.
It means you love your subject so much you'll sacrifice your standard of living, move around a lot and have little stability for other things in life. Once you spend more time with the love of your life you'll find that universities have cheapened the PhD by awarding way too many of them. As far as loving the research work, you'll never get to do it in your particular interests.
I didn't do a PhD but through my undergrad about half of my PhD profs had the ego problem. The aways wanted to show how wonderful they were. Most could not teach and I learned the most from the Teaching Assistants who were doing their Masters, and the text book.
I had the same experience in my Undegrad. The teaching assistants were treated appallingly but were absolute bastions of knowledge. Everything i learnt was from them. While the professors fed their ego and bullied students and teaching assistants alike
I'm in the 3rd year of my PhD (History). I was supremely burnt out after my undergrad, but my husband agreed to support me in taking 6 months off before looking for work. Then the pandemic happened while I started doing interviews, and in the meantime I applied for funding for the PhD (skipping the Masters); I got the funding and it's going well. Since I started my undergrad in my late 30s I already had about 15 years of working in the "real world" for scandalously low pay and no respect. I'm definitely doing it for the title, it's going to be a real boost to my credibility in the talks I already give in museums/schools/libraries. I still love my subject. I do suffer from anxiety, and considered self-harm at times during my undergrad, but I'll find something to stress out about regardless. On balance, for me, it's worth it (but I wouldn't be doing it if I didn't have funding).
I’m in my late30s and interested in not only going for my PhD but to go to it straight from my undergrad. Most importantly though, is if I am able to get my PsyD fully or mostly funded. Any advice on going for doctorate straight from undergrad or/and getting that degree fully funded?
@@parisjoy7875 Hi! I guess how I was able to skip the Masters was because I graduated with a first class honours. That's allowed in Ireland, but I don't know about your country. I think a lot of people don't know that you can do that, so assume they need to do the Masters, or maybe they feel they need more experience writing and researching a longer work than what they do in the Bachelor's, before diving into the PhD. I was and am extremely driven; I didn't take a single day off from September to May, each of the 3 years of my undergrad (hence the need for 6 months after graduation to recover from the burnout). I did that so I would be top of my class all 3 years, and then I used that time off to write a really kick-ass funding application. Honestly, it was very unhealthy, and I'm balancing my time a lot better now. The most helpful thing I could suggest (because my unrelenting approach was horrendous, frankly) is to find a topic in your final year that you think would provide you not only with enough material for your BA dissertation (assuming you have to do one), but that you could also research for your PhD. I researched political gift exchange as a tool of the Tudor conquest of Ireland, and found so much stuff that I knew would need 80-100,000 words to cover it. That way I was very focused and precise in my funding application and has a good amount of research already compiled when I started. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful, but I hope your plans work out the way you want! Edited to add: Essay competitions! Enter them! If journals or societies in your discipline run essay competitions, it's a good idea to enter them if it doesn't impact on your course load. I entered a competition and won it in that 6 month gap that looked incredible on my funding application. And I recently just won another essay competition that got me published and will hopefully boost a really prestigious funding application I made in October. I didn't bother joining any societies or clubs in my undergrad. I've heard they supposedly make your application well-rounded, but I spent my time focusing on my understanding of the subject matter and honing my writing style. That was ultimately more profitable in terms of marks and funding.
But then again, you are pursuing a trash PhD. History!!! Plus, being a woman, you most probably will set out "researching" how niggas built America, or how England has been predominantly black since Roman times!!!
It will be worth it in the long run if you love your subject. Keep the topics of your theses concrete and doable in the allotted time. Stay positive. Realize that the profs are under enormous pressure and competition within their field and often departments. And it is normal to feel like you are floundering a bit afterwards, actually for 2 to 5 years while you establish your own career. Best wishes
I've seen so many people sucked up by the path of least resistance. Thankfully I saw it coming and noped out of that fast. Yes, looking for a job in the real world scares me, but you can't run away forever.
I have a PhD in Epidemiology position of the Department of Public Health Services in Washington DC. It's important to have one because you can always have something to fall back on and especially when you don't have any income to support yourself. I really do 💕 my career and it pays well too. Thanks. Have a great weekend! 💕, Mustard.
I would also add: don't do a PhD if you are academically burnt out. I graduated with my masters degree recently and a lot of people have told me to go for a PhD. I told them to do it instead. I know myself. I did a 2nd bachelor's degree so i could qualify to apply for my internship and master's degree, and a few months before finishing, I was so tired already. I had gone to university for like almost 8 years straight without a break and the thought of doing my master's was so daunting to the point where I was tired just by the idea of it. After i finished my master's, i knew i would not pursue a PhD. I don't want the ego boost nor do I need the degree for my field. I did not do a thesis so that way i would not even think about going for a PhD lol. I'm just really tired of school and I'm tired of studying, I'm tired of writing essays and doing presentations for grades. I don't want to know about school ever again. Thank you for sharing this video. I know you said it's probably negative, but there's people that need to see videos like this so they can understand that certain paths aren't for everyone. The PhD path is not for me and I don't want it. I have the biggest respect for anyone who goes for it and I am amazed by the dedication it takes. I am in no way saying getting a PhD is bad. If anything, good for those who are committed to it. I know that i could not commit anymore. I want to live my life now. I spent like....a good 10 years of my life in university alone. I'm thinking of other things like having a family, having a dog, having a job, travelling. Not in that order but i just want to do activities that are not related to school. Congratulations for getting your PhD!!!
My God you are speaking to the exact dilemma I have now. Went back into education when I was 26. Did a 1 year access course, 3 year BA, 1 year Research Masters, and I am exhausted. My mental health is terrible. I was offered a PhD position and my supervisor is really pushing and pushing for me to do it, but I cannot handle another 3 years being too poor to even get a bus to see a friend. At the same time, I believe it would make me more employable in my field (Medical-Social Anthropology/Cultural Gerontology), and after a rough start in life it would make me feel incredibly proud. I’ve been looking for research jobs but I was not prepared for how competitive it is, even though I have two first class degrees and very niche relevant professional experience. I am desperate for my life to start but I have no idea where to go from here.
I am doing a PhD in a hospital and the difference is massive to PhDs in Unis. My friends are doing their PhD in an actual Uni and it sounds like hell compared to us. We work 36 hours per week, never overwork, get paid handsomely as hospital employees, travel the world for conferences with our coworkers, and we are not REQUIRED to do TA work. It definitely helps that the culture in this country is egalitarian and everyone treats you as their equal, even the professors. We are on a first name basis with them. It's way more fun than what people describe a Uni PhD to be.
Great points Andy! I hope I’m not doing mine for any of those reasons, but time will tell 🤔. One thing I’m not so confident about is going to conferences. It would be great if you could one day make a video on how to maximize your experience at conference. I love the content! Keep doing what you do!
There are 2 types of PhD. 1. Young PhD: you are doing somebody else's work, ideas, inception to get a job, academic promotion, etc. This is exploitative but transactional. 2. Old PhD: exploring and publishing your own ideas, based on your experiences, to educate others and transmit information. This is a personal goal or ambition. It gives you authority in your profession. This is transmission of information, consistent with the 3rd rule of evolutionary theory.
I feel that the path of least resistance really makes sense to me right now as a reason for why I'm going into this field. I find it incredibly interesting sure, but I am already struggling with my mental health for my undergraduate dissertation. So it might be worth it trying to defer my offer/reapplying after 1 or 2 years as it will be a better, more thought-out decision by then. Thank you Andy!
Hey, if you were struggling with mental health for your undergrad dissertation, I really hope you didn't jump head-first into the PhD! There's no shame whatsoever into giving industry a try, even though professors will try to scare you into believing that your "gap year" will shut you out of grad school.
The professor and the lab environment are probably the most important components that you have no control. Choose wisely, otherwise those can destroy you or make you quit/leave and hate the PhD.
Absolutely. Even in that decision you can often have little to no control. I picked my advisors but they also picked the students. I also filtered choices based on which programs were going to fund me.
This is so true! I have to fund most of the things I need by side projects. Luckily I have now a project which will finance my measurements (hours/weeks of machine costs) otherwise I would have just done a theoretical PhD.
Excellent video, Andy! Thank you, for trying to help young people avoid a big mistake. I have a Ph.D. from a prestigious university in a physical science and although I enjoyed the challenge, I do not feel it was worth the opportunity costs. I ultimately ended up doing very well in a marginally related career path, but the Ph.D. very little to do with my success. It is sad that professors and universities rarely care about what path is best fee their students.
This video was actually very reassuring. Both my older sisters are kind of in the "well, I'm here....guess I better finish, even though I hate it..." phase of getting their PhD's and I'm leaving in the morning for my first PhD program interview. I'm trying to go into epidemiology/infectious disease/public health and I'm very passionate about the work that waits for me on the other side of my PhD (and honestly, looking at the research at the institutions where I've applied makes me feel excited too). I was talking to a friend today who's also in the process of grad school interviews and acceptances, and she was saying that she's going to grad school sort of to put off the decision of what she wants to do. I hope she'll find something she loves during grad school to make the process worth it. I know it's a dark night of the soul, and I'm dreading that a little, but the work I want to do is the sort of thing that will save thousands, maybe even millions of lives, and is super cool to boot!
Or wreck the global economy for minimal benefits, irreparably scar the development of most children, allow for new and exciting violations of civil rights (in the name of public health!), forcibly inject hundreds of millions of people with experimental drugs that miiight not have been as useful and harmless as your colleagues promised, and destroy public confidence in both government and health authorities... The Madness should have delivered a pretty strong dose of reality to your runaway idealism.
The second reason applies to me the most. I have already suffered a psychotic depression after finishing my undergraduate degree. I transferred university twice for a masters and am currently struggling soooo much with my masters thesis 😩 - like soo soo much - I can’t wait till I graduate and find a job with my masters- thank you so much for this video cuz it reaffirmed my concern about mental health and well being and academia. Now I know why my mom says I shouldn’t go for a phd.
💯 ego is the WRONG reason to do the phd. Usually when I dug down deep it was ego and pressure. I don’t have good reasons for doing a phd and I don’t think it will be healthy for me either- also work life balance is super important. I’m in the social sciences but this video was super super helpful specially about the mental health warning and ego warning. Thank you so much I’m so greatfull
I also struggled a lot with my master’s thesis. I found out that trying to ask deeper and deeper questions while writing would lead me down a very negative path. Also it would be on my mind all the time while not working on it. I took a year off it and ended up turning it in 2 years late. I was very glad it was over. I’m much happier having an 8 hour job where I don’t have to think about it 24/7.
I agree with most of these. I didn't realize that so many people wanted to go into academia. After doing a PhD (almost done) I want to avoid academia and many other students I have talked to feel the same. I often tell Master's/undergraduate students that the only reason to do a PhD is to get them to their goal. For example, if they want to do research or required for growth in a company. Not just because they don't want to get a job. And if they don't know what to do then they can get paid significantly better to figure it out outside of graduate school (I am in engineering).
I got my PhD and even got a job in academia working at a major University. And even though my IQ clocked in 153 I couldn't handle the political minutia and fragile egos of most of my colleagues.
I did not go to PhD but I went for another bachelor degree in science. I did chemistry bachelor and masters and now I want to do engineering. I was considering it because of the path of less resistance and money. Best decision of my life. Also to note I start working immediately after finishing within 6 months. Had to get a driving licence.
Thank you Dr. Andrew!! I am a Brazilian student and I am almost finishing my Master in Portugal. Sometimes during the masters I thought about to do a Phd in the future however I was not sure if this would be better for me or not, you helped me a lot with your video. Now I am sure that a Phd is not thr better path for me, thank you!! 😊😊😊
You just literally named all of the reasons why I wanted to start a phd 😅 thanks for the helpful and insightful advice! I’m taking now time off after finishing my undergraduate studies to really think deeper what I want to do the next years of my life
I graduated with an Australian honour H1 with one undergraduate research project under my name, I embarked on a corporate career with a stable 9-5 job and a decent salary. However, after two years, I found myself burnt out and yearning for something more fulfilling. That's when I decided to return to academia and pursue a PhD, which was possible in Australia without a master's degree if you had achieved an H1 or A2. I savored the four years of the PhD program, even rejoined my old undergrad club despite hardly finding the time to commit to club activities, eventually earning my title, and was then faced with the prospect of returning to the corporate grind. Despite some naysayers who believed I had wasted four years of my life only to end up back where I started (which is true but oh well), I felt the experience was invaluable. The opportunity to immerse myself in my studies again and pursue my passion was priceless. Currently, I am thriving as a senior machine learning scientist with everything I could ask for, a home, car, funds for my hobbies, my video game collections, and a wonderful fiancé whom I meet during my PhD endevour. I never regret my decision to pursue a PhD and enjoyed every moment of the journey, I consider myself the lucky one comparing to others.
I have a PhD in engineering, and I'd say that my decisions were largely based on what Andy referred to as a "Path of least resistance" mentality. I enjoyed the college life in general and getting started in the mundane world of 9 to 5. or throwing myself into the highly competitive environments and work hours associated with chasing "extreme success" didn't sound appealing to me. The PhD seemed like a way to continue being responsibly productive towards achieving life goals (even though I wasn't sure what those goals were) while avoiding the part of life that I felt would ultimately make me miserable. Having gone through it, I can say that the work hours, intermittent extreme stress, and general sacrifices of my life were at maximums during this period. The PhD doesn't benefit me at all in my current job, and considering the years that were spent, it was definitely a horrible decision from a financial perspective. I also do not benefit from an egotistical perspective, as I cringe at the thought of being called "Dr." and generally do not make it known to others if at all possible. However, I do not regret the decisions or the experience. The grueling nature of the journey makes the goal worthwhile, which is something that I can only really appreciate in retrospect. Persevering through these challenges helped me grow as a person, gave me real perspective in getting my priorities straight, provided me with true expertise in my field, and gave me confidence in my ability to succeed when it counts. These benefits are not strictly associated with obtaining a PhD, it is just a good way to throw yourself into something difficult, experience a prolonged period of discomfort, and see if you can make it through to the other side in one piece.
@@johnnybravo6360 I don't really have much to add beyond what was written in the comment above. If you want a career in research or in scholastics at the college level, then the answer is easy. Beyond that, there are a lot of downsides (time, stress, finances, etc), while the only real upside is the experience itself.
I could have written these words with the difference that I am not already working or looking for a job, I gave myself holiday after the PhD but this (good) time is finishing.
@@juliantheapostate8295 The answer is a bit complicated, and it's difficult to not come across as egotistical in the explanation, but I'll give it a shot. It is readily apparent to me that I am significantly more intelligent than the average person, and I can fall back on IQ scores to be sure that I'm not deluding myself. According to my personal moral philosophy, it makes no sense to take pride in something that was obtained by luck. I feel very fortunate for my level of intelligence, but I did nothing to deserve it. I simply happened to fall at an outlier position in a randomized genetics/environment lottery. Expecting respect and admiration for being intelligent makes no more sense than expecting the same for being tall vs short or beautiful vs ugly. People do tend to judge based on these attributes because we are instinctively motivated to do it, but it makes no sense if you really think about it. That being the case, I try to constantly be mindful of keeping my self-opinion in check while evaluating the affects that my actions might have on the self-opinions of others. It might seem like I'm working on the assumption that PhD = more intelligent than non-PhD, but I'm well aware that education level and intelligence do not always correlate. However, it doesn't change the fact that certain assumptions tend to come along with something like "Dr". Salutations and titles are social devices intended to designate positions in hierarchies. My goal is to not feel the need to push myself up at the expense of others, which is why I tend to cringe when people call me Dr.
Great videos, thank you for making it. I am currently an EE undergraduate student and the career landscape for people in my field does not really require a PhD. However, I have been very fortunate to be apart of research labs and seen the process people go through to reach that level of education. At the end of the day there are more reasons not to get a PhD but they are not inspiring and they are not what will give me peace when I am forced to look back on my life an evaluate the work I have done. Some people climb mt Everest but I aim to climb the heights of knowledge and endure the process so that I can be the best in my field at what I do. Again, thank you for the video keep up the good work people need reality checks before they commit to to endeavors of this much significance.
I could never be a slave to my supervisor. I have 3 MA's in related subjects and found an excellent position in academe. Anybody wanting to commence a PhD should listen to your excellent presentation, Andy.
I don't know - it's not all bad. I drifted into my mine but got lucky I guess - the pay was nearly the same as a graduate job (I got one of the few Research assistant/PhD openings so I got a real salary), supervisor was a nice guy, it was pretty much 9-5 if you were organized, interesting research and published plenty and was done in less than 3 years (thanks UK). It was a great time which I really enjoyed.
These are all excellent and very solid reasons you list. If I could go back and mentor my younger self, I'd say "skip the PhD". But, there's a lot I learned along the way and I did have a great academic position (my dream job). Ultimately, I quit my dream academic position after a few years because I felt trapped by the rut created my PhD; I really wanted to branch out into new territory; those who hired me did so because of my thesis and weren't interested in me branching out into the other areas of interest. And, I was just exhausted from years of working on the same narrow topic. On the point of income, I discovered that the PhD initially opened doors to very nice salaries but they came with workloads even more onerous than the work I did on the PhD. Ultimately, I've come to feel that the PhD pegged me as someone worthy of higher pay but who will sacrifice everything to get the job done. That may have been me en route to the PhD, but once completed I really wanted a job would keep me fed and housed but also allow me to pursue other interests. In short, the PhD can become something of a straight-jacket.
I'm wanting to do a Ph.D. after undergrad because I really like math (applied and computational) and am interested in math research. That's it. The fact that most of the jobs I can see myself working in (in industry) when I get out of school require a doctorate is just a bonus.
For path of least resistance, I totally agree. It's like staying in comfort zone. Thankfully, I was so fed with studying that I don't even want to go masters and have enough courage to try to find industry job.
I call a Ph.D. a mental illness machine. You put yourself in a position where at great financial expense you forego starting your family, earning money and experience in your field to answer a question very few people care about or even understand. When you finally graduate, you will likely owe 6 figures in debt, find it difficult to get good work, and it will take a toll on all your relationships. It took me two whole years of work to fully manage my depression. After two years of working for a Master’s level salary, I ended up laid off anyway. After 4 months of unemployment, I ended up being a permanent independent contractor who pays all my own benefits. There are just no good jobs out there for 90% of Ph.D.’s.
American. 25 years ago, I received an MS. I was on friendly terms with an older professor in the department that I TA'ed for. One evening at a department mixer, I told him that I was thinking of embarking on a PhD. In no uncertain terms, he told me NOT to do the PhD if I wanted any sort of quality in my life. He told me to enter university administration for the money, the hours, and the quality of life. According to him, the administrators were the future. I followed his advice and it was the best decision I ever made. I am higher paid, more respected, more in demand, seemingly happier than the academics, much less stressed out. The professor was, exactly, correct. Administrative salaries have steadily climbed over my career. Academic research and teaching "salaries" have plummeted during that same time. It's a shame, but it is the truth.
I got my bachelors in biology and between working 40 hours a week and being a full time student with 2 or 3 labs a week, I got so burnt out. Between stress for paying for my apartment and studying, it took a real toll on my mental health. I have a good job now in a hospital lab but I want to pursue my masters or phd. I’m so scared of getting burnt out again. It’s been 3 years and I am finally at a good place mentally. This video was an eye opener.
From personal experience and making some of the wrong choices myself: Point 1) Agree Point 2) Agree (or develop an alcohol problem etc.) Point 3) Depends on subject Point 4) Agree Point 5) Agree Point 6) Depends on you and your Supervisor I did the PhD because it was the easy route when there were few jobs around. Fortunately I had a great Supervisor who has sadly passed away recently. Met some great people along the way but I am no better off financially etc. than if I had gone in to industry with just my degree.
I am now at the end of my undergraduate and i'm considering what my next step is. Though Phd is a bit far away to me as i will need a Master degree in between to get there, but the things you said about the least resistance path reflects exactly what im thinking of myself: im an introvert since i could't remember, i've been spending most of my life studying, both in high school and in uni. My grades are usually at the top of the class, and i also like studying a lot, but outside of that, i have little experience with any other things: i know little about economy or politics, i dont watch movies or sport, i dont play video games and many other things that my friends do but i dont even know exist. I hardly have any conversation with my friends other than studying and assignments, and the idea of going out to the real world does scare me out. Besides, anyone around me told that i need to pursue further education, my parents encourage me to study more as they think higher degree will always be better (that is how Asian parents think), i also have good relationship with my supervisor and he wants me to do research too. So suddenly i have to decide on what kind of things i want to do in the future, and it seems that i cannot really get much help from looking around. This video really helps me see my problem from different perspective. Thank you!
My brother this isn't a healthy lifestyle or outlook on life. Being introverted is one thing, living in the world as an outsider is another. You should probably start getting out of your comfort zone and get to know the world you exist in a bit more instead of ignoring it further.
I understand you. But you should there's much more to life than studying and life is actually much simpler than you imagine. Look at the amount of people that are millionaires and billionaires that didn't went through the amount of pain that you did. You don't need to be too smart to have a great life, you just need to make some great decisions. Try to consider other career path that will make you money for less effort and time. There's a difference between being passionate and being a top student. I think only passionate people, those who think they will be miserable if they don't go through that path, should get a PhD.
thank you so much for speaking about the mental health factors! im struggling to get undergrad now but its so challenging in that manner! the anxiety lvl is thru the roof
Utter solitude and isolation, permanent anxiety, intense impostor syndrome and deep fear of discovering mistakes in my own research and papers. My PhD got the worst out of me and, to be honest, the outcome wasn't worth so much suffering. In hindsight, my PhD feels like a huge mistake: it sparked insecurities I didn't know I had and it really put me in a dark place. All of this despite having a great relationship with my supervisor! I think PhDs are really damaging, at least the way they're conceived now: all the "publish or perish" ethic, the rush, the neverending circuit of workshops and meetings, the envies and mean reviews... Too much.
I just dropped out of master by research after getting the examiners' report on my thesis back. It would have required an almost complete rewrite and I just don't have the energy or the inclination. I should have dropped it a long time ago, but better late than never! As a result of dropping the masters, I've also had to withdraw an application to do a PhD - which is almost as much a relief as knowing the masters has finished forever! 🤣
Thank you for this honest video. It gives a reality check to many people. I did (was pushed to do) PhD a few years back, and had to quit due to many issues (e.g.: financial). Lost my employment due to that. After the failure, I brought myself up and managed to continue career in Academia. But, deicided to leave Academia (for a while / for good?) since last year. It has caused me to have a burnout during the peak of pandemic at that time.
"You are doing it because it is the path of least resistance" This is me, but I was doing a Master's (in finance rather than science). I temporarily withdrew after a month because of mental health problems, with the intent of going back next year, but I have no passion for the subject and I feel like I'm getting caught in the sunk-cost trap. I need to find work in my field of study before deciding to go back. Even if the pay is lower than having a Master's and I won't be fast-tracked into senior positions, it is better to take care of my mental health first. Maybe I will end up not enjoying working in that field and go in a completely different direction. It's a scary time for me, especially with the cost of living crisis.
*There is a 7th and 8th reason not to do it:* 7) PhD is not the end "level". You will need to do at least one, possibly two Post-Doc positions which can last from 2-6 years after your PhD 8) If you want to be in Academia, most lucky PhDs who make it to Academia, leave after 2-6 years for various reasons. I've seen this happen MANY times.
when I did my PhD in engineering I was studying for 12 - 16hrs a day …. I did meditation and long walks with my GF ( current wife) to temper my stress & depression ... it work out very well
Excellent video. The mind is the fundamental faculty through which all experience is mediated. Therefore the development and cultivation of the mind is crucial to the project of healthy living. At its most foundational, a PhD is an astute tool for disciplining the mind through focused inquiry. I loved it 😊❤️
Number 7: it locks you in a specific status in job market (at least in Finland). You'll be then too over-educated, that there wouldn't be enough jobs for those people, and it wouldn't be that high salary - high education required jobs, therefore it is a pretty common thing that there are many high educated persons being jobless, and/or doing totally different jobs what they were intended to do with Phil-Degree. Job markets are inflated by them. IT IS A TRAP!
I got my PhD in 2018. In 2016 I started to apply for teaching positions in higher education while wriring my dissertation. I was older 15 years than my peers. I never went beyond the first interview always among 250 candidates average. I was/am part time professor. I got depression and anxiety, I was so sick and burned out. My daughter suffered all my time in Masters and PhD. Now, I am a HAPPY receptionist, mom, and wife. I earn more than teaching part time and I have nothing to do out of working hours, payed vacations, sick days, holidays payed. I really regret all the time I wasted in doing a PhD.
I dropped out of Grad school (Civil Engineering) because I just could not see the road to academia clearly at 24 years old. I don't regret it I've really been able to make a name for myself in the Structural Engineering workforce. It's simply just not for everyone
I have a masters in Archeology. I was headed for a PhD, but my professor supervising me, told me a couple of these points plus own research on the pay which you mentioned as well and it made me do a masters instead. Super happy i chose this route
That’s why I studied for a PhD and it was THE BEST decision of my life. Yes, it’s incredibly hard. But for me, it was so rewarding. It’s not for everyone, and you’ve got to know yourself.
Thank you for being so candid and honest, it's rare in people nowadays, especially somebody that has a doctorate. I already knew I'd need a masters after this bachelors I'm currently doing, but a doctorate for me unless God himself told me I had to do it seems increasingly not worth the time.
The stress was killing me. I'm glad I got out when I did. It set me back a couple years, but I'm doing just fine with a bachelor's degree in chemisty. I was guilty of following the path of least resistance. During the economic downturn in 2010, a spot in the chem department fell into my lap. I figure that academia would be a good place to wait out the recession.
Hi, I find your experience interesting. I just studied the same thing, and I was offered the direct PhD. To work at the academy, hasn't it required you to have to do a master's or doctorate to stay there?
Great video! I will say that my PhD did actually translate into higher starting pay in the public sector, but I would also say that the level of that increase did not necessarily reflect 1:1 the number of years and effort that went into getting that PhD. Still, I have zero regrets and did the PhD simply because I really wanted to do a PhD. The nice salary on the other side is just icing on the cake.
My PhD took 8 years of my life and to some degree I feel I lost my 20s. I ended up with anxiety and depression. It took over a decade to recover. Now I'm in my 40s and have a great resume and good quality publications behind me so I am finally reaping benefits. I'm glad my life has taken the course it has but it has not been easy!
In India, there is a craze to do PhD today. Maybe it's because of pressure within academia to have a Dr before your name. I too have a PhD in English Literature from JNU, New Delhi. Took me a long time because I was also changing jobs and moving from south India to north India at the same time. Overall, it was not a bad experience since I liked the topic I was working on and the doctoral degree led to some improvement in my career.
I'm currently doing a Master's and I have the opportunity to do a PhD. I am still weighing the options, but some of your reasons matched with mine: money, low resistance and the desire for a title. My end-goal is to become a consultant or even move to the US, though I am not against becoming an academic.
Mental health, path of least resistance and ego. Check. I needed your video four years ago, it would have probably spared me the worst time of my life.
Thanks for posting this video ! After I started my career, and met some colleagues who had PhD, I asked myself why I didn't do it. In all of the cases, their PhD had absolutely nothing to do with what they were doing. That fact and this video sort of put to rest my own questions of why I didn't get into it... At the time, I had a sense of urgency to earn money.
I disagree with most points in this video. #1 Money Andy makes it sound that a PhD only gives about 3 percentage point increase in oncome over the master's degree. It certainly varies a lot between countries and fields. I don't know what study he's citing, but I'm confident that for most people the average difference would be _much_ bigger than 3%. #2 Mental Health That the mental health of PhD students is getting worse (and that 36% of them report problems) is meaningless without knowing the mental health status of the general population and without knowing the students' mental health status before their PhD programme. #3 Your Only Goal Is Being an Academic This doesn't make any sense at all. PhD is _required_ for academic career, so having only that goal is an argument _for_ doing a PhD. It's exactly when one has a back-up plan that one can start considering other options besides the PhD. #5 Ego Andy never says _why_ it's bad to do the PhD for ego reasons. He just states over and over - using slightly different phrasings - that it is bad.
When I was doing my Ph.D., my grandmother died when I was racing to meet a publishing deadline. I didn't attend the funeral, and to this day I have regrets. Even though I was allowed vacations, I cannot remember taking any except for Christmas holidays and special occasions that didn't interfere with any deadlines. I wasn't expecting high salaries or better paying jobs. To the contrary, I was expecting that my Ph.D. topic would present hurdles to employment because it had no obvious practical applications. Nor was ego and the allure of a job in Academia main drivers for me, although I did try to go that route. It was mostly a path of least resistance with the personal challenge of contributing to the scientific field. The strange thing is that I am a big proponent of work life balance. But I didn't have work life balance when I did my Ph.D. I am currently employed in the regulatory field of the chemical industry. Work life balance can still be a struggle at times, but it is no way near as much of a struggle as it was during my Ph.D. and post-doc.
I couldn't agree more about how wrong is enrolling for a PhD just as a way to take some time before figuring out what to really do with your life. That was unfortunately my choice, which led to years of general dissatisfaction and above of that, it made my life plans way more confused and chaotic! However, the problem solving skills, the resilience and the way you shape your mind to critical thinking is something that I would have probably never learned without spending several years in PhD and post-docs. Also, I started learning coding and DSP during those years, which are now the core skills of my own audio plug-in business. Yes, I eventually quitted too but man, it's just the best decision I ever made; just ANY single aspect of my life significantly improved after then. I still remember that awkward meeting with my line managers where I expressed my future plans to launch my own business, as I will never forget the last day I stepped out the building , waived hi to my now ex-colleagues and walked home. Btw, so many ex-academics become business owners, do you think it's just a forced choice given the little options you have if you want to jump from the University to the 'real world', or maybe the experience as a researcher gives you some transferrable skills that turn out so valuable when running a business?
I have a law degree and much of the same could be said of that degree. Universities, for being “non-profit,” sure love money from students, especially if the student is relying on debt.
Hey Andy, as a PhD student, almost done with writing and just completed some data and graffics, but you know this is the most difficult part, I am soo grateful that I found your channel and subscribed. I really like this video and hopefully my reasons are not based on the above mentioned reasons. Would you make a video of for example the 5 or 7 most common reasons to write a PhD or the most useful paths including PhD. :)
Thank you, Andy, all of your points are very accurate. I stopped at the Masters level, I realized I was getting "out of my depth." In my cohort, 2 out of 6 dropped out and didn't finish the Masters - the environment was toxic, the pressure was intense. I also saw some PhD students drop out after 5-7 years, left with just an ABD....a tragic waste of time. In summary, I went alt-ac after my Masters, I took a non-academic career with a good salary and benefits. As a mere side-gig I did 20 years of part-time adjunct lecturing, 1-2 classes per year. The adjunct pay was peanuts, but I enjoyed academe as an avocation.
I was a 'path of least resistance' graduate student, and it was godawful, for all the health reasons mentioned here. It was a tight job market, after 2008, they were willing to pay me, and I wanted to learn everything about everything (which is not what a PhD is for, but I had so enjoyed sharing upper-level undergraduate courses with graduate students that I thought I knew what I was getting into). I ended up leaving with a Masters, but I honestly wish I had left with nothing. It wrecked my mental health for years, completely ruined my ability to study anything in a classroom setting (which makes it very hard to re-train), and I am now so uncertain of my actual personal boundaries that it is difficult for me not to spontaneously quit my job, when times are tough. I even lost the ability to read for several years (I have fairly severe brain fog and working memory issues, now, that I did not have, before).
It may help to do "nothing" for a while. Get a dog/cat. Sleep a lot watch goofy movies or whatever you want. Be outside - take your time. Don't bother to concentrate on anything in particular... "Drink coffee and eat cookies." Listen to music. Take your time. Be lazy, be selfish. Do what you want. After a while your memory will come back. I lost my whole family one to Alzheimer's, another to cancer, another to heart disease. Now I have no one except a veteran who has PTSD, anger and addiction issues- Also I had a really stressful job working with troubled kids in a special education setting. Now I live an isolated life. But! I have time to hang out on you tube. Drink coffee and read and do nothing. And what the hay... My memory is back. I've been successfully memorizing Latin passages and learning a new language. And I can complete whole sentences without effort (occasionally get stressed and freeze.) At least give yourself a week or two to be as free from care as possible. There is hope, especially if you're young(er). Oh, horror movies aren't helpful.
@Anita Mcginnis Thank you. It has been about seven years. I spent the first few years exploring sewing, dancing, medieval fighting - all the things I had put off so long, because school 'had to come first'. It was glorious, but not very secure (as in, I was couchsurfing). I optimistically tried to jump back into the 'real world' in 2018 and 2019, but it was a bad way to go about things and ended up being more of a setback than anything. I am lucky to be in a position now where I do not need to support myself entirely on my own, and it has given me breathing room to slowly deconstruct old expectations and bridge the gap between my old intellectual life and my vibrant new material interests. I have regained the ability to read, and my brain fog is much better-but it still creeps up on me at unexpected moments-to enough of an extent that I have had to build a system of contingencies around everything I do.
Guys I agree completely with what is being said. I’m in my third year and I have passed two milestones successfully. I’m seriously thinking of quitting as there is no prospect of getting any where further career wise , one opportunity such as Research Assistance comes up and 300 applicants queuing. It’s dire and very disappointing. If you’re phd is funded with a guaranteed post then definitely go for it , otherwise don’t waste your time.
Thank you, Andy, it was very informative. Maybe it is a kind of a strange question but what is your idea of doing a Ph.D. abroad for experiencing life in another country?
You can experience life in another countries studying the language of the country, some course, a bachelors or master degree, not necessarily phd. I graduated from a Chinese university and the experience of living in China was awesome. I may go to study abroad for masters degree but I doubt for phd. I think it’s too much stress and I need to work. I recommend you to study masters again but as you like, maybe in your major is better to have phd. Good luck!
I couldn't even manage the stress when i was doing my master's dissertation... I had headache everyday.. But now i want to teach at college and phd is preffered... So i have written the government exam here jn India.. Results are coming next month.. But i think i would be making a bad decision if i chose to do phd... I have high grades at college.. But i feel like im wasting my life... What you said is right....
Currently a final year student of Bioinformatics.. Although my major has hugeee potential of research n that's literally a research based major for whose who want to pursue phD, but I'm absolutely not rooting for another 4 yrs of extreme pressure and anxiety since i already have anxiety issues, adhd etc.. It could be a toll in my mental health.. Besides, as you mentioned the first point thag if u're goal is to make money then don't go for phD... That's soo damn true.. PhDs should be for those who're extremely enthusiastic about their subjects and research.. They're literally in love with it.. in that case, one can pursue phD, otherwise i blv there r tons of ways to make a lot of money.. Maybe one should change the pathway n do a lotmore job hopping.. but if u're intention is to make money alongside learning n mastering in ur preferred field, then just go for it... Most of us, especially, life-science students face this dilemma whether to follow the crowd who're doing piles of degrees or changing the route n do something different, so I'm happy that i realized it way before my graduation that phD isn't for me.. Now I'm planning to shift to different major lik Data science which i got to know via Bioinformatics especially i got to do few courses aligning both Machine learning and Bioinformatics for early stage of cancers... That's how it happened and for this shift, as far as i knw, i need a Masters degree or double masters just to excel in this field... Hopefully I'll be in a much content place in the future...
UA-camr tips for you, Andy: Add "0:00 Introduction" on top of the timestamps "0:36 Doing a Ph.D. is a big decision" will give you a sectioned look on the progress bar! Thanks for making this video, Andy! I would add to a huge disclaimer to the point on the "path of least resistance" that PhD is not simply a "job option". It should be seen as an education and a huge time investment. I just realized quite many PhD students on Twitter insisted PhD is "a job"/ "Job-like", what a huge misconception, and misleading to the younger students!
Cheers Andy, great, honest , down to earth videos. Good to hear you had a good experience in Oz! (I=Australian living in Poland, currently thinknig about applying for a PhD in the UK!)
As a recent PhD graduate, I suggest do not do PhD. It is a free labor-work to satisfy the reviewers and your supervisor. Indeed, post-doc is the same as well. You don't get the money you deserve.
Such a sensible article. I struggled with my MA as I had a breakdown 10 yrs before it but eventually did get it with a distinction but have struggled with my PhD for years and years and wish I had never started. I don't know if I will ever finish it as I am struggling again with mental health.
Hello Andy, Thank you so much for your very interesting content... I just started my Ph.D at south korea, however am still in my home country because of airport closer.... The starting is very tough because of time difference -8 hours 😌 Very good to check the reasons once and controlling EGO one regularly. Thank you again 💕 And keep it up Wahiba
I could not but agree with you. I spent 6 years engaging in a PhD, which, by the way, I achieved with highest honours. But the full package also implied long burn out periods, self-doubt, impostor syndrome, and a posttraumatic stress that prevented me from doing any meaningful research for more than ten years. Was it worth it? Personally, I would say yes, it was worth it, but one should know how's going to be when engaging in a PhD. As for me, I was extremely naïve when I applied for it.
Finishing up my Ph.D., my suggestion regarding your mental issues: (1) Exercise (running especially) regularly (2) Find a supportive community of friends and peers (3) Eat healthy (4) Find a healthy work/life balance (5) Make sure to find a counselor in your area early on in case you find yourself in an emergency. You got this!
I'm in a PhD in nursing program and work full time as an operating room (OR) nurse. I am doing the program to 1) write textbooks and articles 2) extend my working life (OR is dangerous) 3) research the OR from a nursing perspective. And nurse educators/instructors have been hit hard through the last forever and the profession is in desperate need of instructors. And here I am, not for the money or the academic kudos or the ego boost, but because I am needed to teach the next generation of nurses.
I think wanting to be professor, and therefore stay in academia, is a legit reason to get a PhD, because it's the only way you can achieve it (at least where I'm from and in my field). And is an aspiration just as good as any other. I mean, if you want to be a high school teacher, you do what you have to do to get you there. Is the same for university professors, and tha includes the PhD. And I think that when somebody wants to become one, it means they love researching and teaching, so I really don't see what can be wrong with that. Also, I know what you mean about people with mental health issues, but I also don't think that people in those situations should let their condition define them and make their life choices for them. I personally would hate my mental problems getting on the way of achieving my goals (and that would probably lead to more problems).
There’s nothing wrong with it. that was my main reason for getting my PhD-that is, to be an academic and a scholar. BUT you have to understand your odds, too. Depending on your field (mine is psychology), the chances of getting an assistant professor position (not a lecturer or an adjunct, but a tenure-track professor position) right out of grad school can be pretty low (slim to none, even). That’s why post docs are now required in many fields, including mine, just to be competitive for a tenure track position at a university. It’s just good to have a back up plan and know your options before deciding to pursue a PhD.
I have anxiety and I am starting a PhD. My logic was "well, I'm anxious no matter what I do. So I may as well do what I like, even if it's stressful" but I wonder if I'm making the right decision. My aim in the months before I start is to set myself into good habits to help myself manage. I want to aim to treat my PhD like any other job.
Please don’t let this video make you feel more anxious or regretful at all of your decision. I also have anxiety amongst other mental illnesses, and I have faith that if you have the passion for it you’ll do just fine in your program. Life can be stressful no matter what you do. Just try to cope ahead and kinda like you said just set yourself up with some good habits and a good game plan in case you ever find yourself at a low point in your phd journey. Good luck
I think there is an aspect of doing a PhD that hasn't been talked about. PhD positions offer great opportunities for migrating to more developed countries. THey offer great scholarships for people living in underdeveloped counrties (like me) to be able to migrate somewhere else, work on a project they like, and potentially find a job and become a citizen. I know for a fact that this is one of the primary reasons why many international students start doing a PhD.
I love this... nd this can be one of the greatest reasons of motivation
That's why I'm pursuing one
No mate. It already is almost impossible to stay in another country. Everywhere the rules of immigration have toughened during the last 10 years. I did a PhD in the UK. The only way I could stay over there was through marriage. But even in that case is tough. I have friends that are just getting their permanent residency after 10 years. During those 10 years you are losing plenty of opportunities in your home country. For example, I have 6 almost 7 years in my hometown after returning from the UK. I already own a property, have two cars, a good paid job and I am opening a business. If I would stayed in the UK, forget it mate. I would be in the freezer waiting for my permanent residence permit to clear. Even more, I should have never go to do the PhD. I feel I lost 5 years of my life. It was a good experience, without any doubt, but they are 5 years of lost income and opportunities. It is the cost of opportunity the thing we do not contemplate when taking a decision like this. My phD is useless. It is only a nice diploma stored somewhere in the house, not even hung in a frame on the wall. I do not need it for my actual job and I eran more than a regular PhD.
You can move to another country on a work visa, if you find a job there, and I think it’s a much more straightforward route. A permanent job provides much more stability than a time-limited PhD, while at the same time it’s usually much easier to switch jobs than to switch PhD programs if you want. After X years on a work visa you can usually apply for a permanent residency and then for citizenship.
This is an important point. Those students should be aware that as migrants they have a harder time than citizens to find a job after graduation. There are lots of biases.
Yesterday we had a professor and he told us exactly the same. Thats why I told myself a master is enough
Good professor
Recently got my PhD in Business and Management last February. I absolutely agree with all of your reasonings. Honestly I regret my decision, since I totally burned my saving, career, and mental health to get this fancy title. I was an individual that easy to move on and quite confident, but because of my PhD experience, I have this traumatic memory every time I need to study or pick up something new now. If I could time travel to myself 5 years ago, I would slap me so hard to cancel this PhD journey of mine.
I am on my 7th to 8th year on PhD and my time is on pause mode, my life waiting for dissertation to be over!! And i could play, “resume” thx for sharing that image of slapping back in time travel mode lol
Are you currently employed?
I'm sorry to hear that. Checking - did you have funding/ stipends during the period of study? I notice you mention that you burned through your savings.
@@eben3357 Yes, I am currently working as a lecturer.
@@rameshkrishnan5651. Thanks for the positive thought. I had several research grants during my study, it alleviated my spending, but was not enough. Every PhD program has different cost structure. But in my experience, the biggest spending was because of the tuition cost each semester (about 1800 USD). I needed one Scopus publication before I could advance to the further stage. I had to pay 4 semester until I got a Scopus pass, so I burnt about 12K for covering tuition and social cost in absence.
Your first words in the introduction seemed so relevant to me. I was contemplating adding a Master's to my Open Uni Batchelor's degree, Philosophy with Humanities 2004, but as I'm now 88 years of age I decided not to spend what might be my final few years with my head in books. Thank you.
Try reading the Qur'an
I am in the Humanities, and I did my PhD because to me nothing feels better than being paid (not much, admittedly) to research a topic I am genuinely interested in, with complete freedom over my schedule. And on top of that I got to travel a lot, which I love. I think it is great for people who do not seek stability: I have to move basically every year (or even less) following this or that scholarship or grant, and to me this is fun and exciting but I understand not everyone likes that. Furthermore, at least in my case I had no office hours and as a matter of fact I had no office at all: this works for me because I'd rather work by myself whenever I want and meet my colleagues only in conferences or seminars, but if you are someone who enjoys interacting with other people every day at work or thrives from a well-established distinction between working hours and free time then you will feel very lonely and lost. This does not mean that I do not like my colleagues: in fact, one of my favourite thing about my PhD and postdoc is that I got to meet so many interesting people who genuinely want to create knowledge together in a friendly environment.
In the end, I think that unfortunately we must acknowledge that an experience like mine is feasible only for privileged people who do not have family obligations and have funds to support them in case there is for example a one-month (if not more) gap between one grant and the next. The financial instability is by far the biggest drawback for me.
Do you feel it would have been worth it if you had sacrificed a few years before your PhD to reach some form of financial stability beforehand? I'm looking into pursuing a humanities PhD right now and am trying to figure out how long/if I should work beforehand.
@thomasbailey7145 I genuinely do not know how to answer you, because I started my PhD only a few months after getting my Masters and I did not have many savings. On the one hand, for me it has been an amazing experience and I would do it all over again a million times, so I would say yes, it is worthy. On the other hand, I must be honest and acknowledge that my experience would have been drastically different if my parents had not been there as a safety net. The scholarships were enough to pay rent but of course it is different when you know that your family can cover for you. So, it really depends on your situation: the only advice I can give you is to consider the mobility factor. If you decide to wait until you get some financial stability, maybe you will be at a point in life where travelling so much is not convenient for you anymore, and then you would lose a big part of what made the PhD so exciting for me. But then again I know many doctoral candidates who have kids and such, so it is not impossible.
Do you mind me asking which country you're in, and what field in the humanities did you get your phD for? I'm nearing the end of my undergrad philosophy degree in the US, and slightly discouraged by the competitiveness of the field.
@@sevengaming2179 no problem! I am Italian and I did my PhD between Germany and the UK. My field is Classics. If there is anything else you would like to know, please feel free to ask :)
And no retirement savings..which does not seem a problem until you get into your forties and look around at people retiring with pensions..hmm start saving early even $20 a month..
I just finished my PhD last summer. I wish your channel existed before I started. I probably wouldn’t have put myself through what I did. Too late now I guess. At least I can call interactions with myself doctor’s appointments now.
😂😂
How long did it take to finish your PhD
@@cardinalngandu1035 8 years. I got married in the middle of it and decided spending time with my wife was more important than my dissertation. That probably added about 2 years to it all.
Balance: Yep. Obtaining a PhD should mean that you really, really, really love your subject and want to do it ALL the time. It is a labor of love and one that you need to totally immerse yourself in.
It means you love your subject so much you'll sacrifice your standard of living, move around a lot and have little stability for other things in life. Once you spend more time with the love of your life you'll find that universities have cheapened the PhD by awarding way too many of them. As far as loving the research work, you'll never get to do it in your particular interests.
I didn't do a PhD but through my undergrad about half of my PhD profs had the ego problem. The aways wanted to show how wonderful they were. Most could not teach and I learned the most from the Teaching Assistants who were doing their Masters, and the text book.
I had the same experience in my Undegrad. The teaching assistants were treated appallingly but were absolute bastions of knowledge. Everything i learnt was from them. While the professors fed their ego and bullied students and teaching assistants alike
Yup and they will frustrate you, every time that student loan letter hits the mailbox a whole bunch of people are going to fail the test that week
Don’t worry about the negativity. This was so important to listen to as well, that we never ever do.
I'm in the 3rd year of my PhD (History). I was supremely burnt out after my undergrad, but my husband agreed to support me in taking 6 months off before looking for work. Then the pandemic happened while I started doing interviews, and in the meantime I applied for funding for the PhD (skipping the Masters); I got the funding and it's going well. Since I started my undergrad in my late 30s I already had about 15 years of working in the "real world" for scandalously low pay and no respect. I'm definitely doing it for the title, it's going to be a real boost to my credibility in the talks I already give in museums/schools/libraries. I still love my subject. I do suffer from anxiety, and considered self-harm at times during my undergrad, but I'll find something to stress out about regardless. On balance, for me, it's worth it (but I wouldn't be doing it if I didn't have funding).
I’m in my late30s and interested in not only going for my PhD but to go to it straight from my undergrad. Most importantly though, is if I am able to get my PsyD fully or mostly funded.
Any advice on going for doctorate straight from undergrad or/and getting that degree fully funded?
@@parisjoy7875 Hi! I guess how I was able to skip the Masters was because I graduated with a first class honours. That's allowed in Ireland, but I don't know about your country. I think a lot of people don't know that you can do that, so assume they need to do the Masters, or maybe they feel they need more experience writing and researching a longer work than what they do in the Bachelor's, before diving into the PhD.
I was and am extremely driven; I didn't take a single day off from September to May, each of the 3 years of my undergrad (hence the need for 6 months after graduation to recover from the burnout). I did that so I would be top of my class all 3 years, and then I used that time off to write a really kick-ass funding application. Honestly, it was very unhealthy, and I'm balancing my time a lot better now.
The most helpful thing I could suggest (because my unrelenting approach was horrendous, frankly) is to find a topic in your final year that you think would provide you not only with enough material for your BA dissertation (assuming you have to do one), but that you could also research for your PhD. I researched political gift exchange as a tool of the Tudor conquest of Ireland, and found so much stuff that I knew would need 80-100,000 words to cover it. That way I was very focused and precise in my funding application and has a good amount of research already compiled when I started.
Sorry I couldn't be more helpful, but I hope your plans work out the way you want!
Edited to add:
Essay competitions! Enter them! If journals or societies in your discipline run essay competitions, it's a good idea to enter them if it doesn't impact on your course load. I entered a competition and won it in that 6 month gap that looked incredible on my funding application. And I recently just won another essay competition that got me published and will hopefully boost a really prestigious funding application I made in October. I didn't bother joining any societies or clubs in my undergrad. I've heard they supposedly make your application well-rounded, but I spent my time focusing on my understanding of the subject matter and honing my writing style. That was ultimately more profitable in terms of marks and funding.
But then again, you are pursuing a trash PhD. History!!! Plus, being a woman, you most probably will set out "researching" how niggas built America, or how England has been predominantly black since Roman times!!!
It will be worth it in the long run if you love your subject. Keep the topics of your theses concrete and doable in the allotted time. Stay positive. Realize that the profs are under enormous pressure and competition within their field and often departments. And it is normal to feel like you are floundering a bit afterwards, actually for 2 to 5 years while you establish your own career. Best wishes
There is PhD for History?! What do you study? Dinosaurs?
I've seen so many people sucked up by the path of least resistance. Thankfully I saw it coming and noped out of that fast. Yes, looking for a job in the real world scares me, but you can't run away forever.
Looking back, that was probably my reason for starting it. Two years later, now looking for a therapist. :(
@@Ascarion1234, so, how is it going?
You absolutely can. The real world sucks man
The fact is that nobody wants you in the real world if you don't have work experience and being just a fresh graduated is basically not enough..
@@ericazanovello9077 :( true true
I have a PhD in Epidemiology position of the Department of Public Health Services in Washington DC. It's important to have one because you can always have something to fall back on and especially when you don't have any income to support yourself. I really do 💕 my career and it pays well too.
Thanks.
Have a great weekend!
💕,
Mustard.
I would also add: don't do a PhD if you are academically burnt out. I graduated with my masters degree recently and a lot of people have told me to go for a PhD. I told them to do it instead. I know myself. I did a 2nd bachelor's degree so i could qualify to apply for my internship and master's degree, and a few months before finishing, I was so tired already. I had gone to university for like almost 8 years straight without a break and the thought of doing my master's was so daunting to the point where I was tired just by the idea of it. After i finished my master's, i knew i would not pursue a PhD. I don't want the ego boost nor do I need the degree for my field. I did not do a thesis so that way i would not even think about going for a PhD lol. I'm just really tired of school and I'm tired of studying, I'm tired of writing essays and doing presentations for grades. I don't want to know about school ever again. Thank you for sharing this video. I know you said it's probably negative, but there's people that need to see videos like this so they can understand that certain paths aren't for everyone. The PhD path is not for me and I don't want it. I have the biggest respect for anyone who goes for it and I am amazed by the dedication it takes. I am in no way saying getting a PhD is bad. If anything, good for those who are committed to it. I know that i could not commit anymore. I want to live my life now. I spent like....a good 10 years of my life in university alone. I'm thinking of other things like having a family, having a dog, having a job, travelling. Not in that order but i just want to do activities that are not related to school. Congratulations for getting your PhD!!!
My God you are speaking to the exact dilemma I have now. Went back into education when I was 26. Did a 1 year access course, 3 year BA, 1 year Research Masters, and I am exhausted. My mental health is terrible. I was offered a PhD position and my supervisor is really pushing and pushing for me to do it, but I cannot handle another 3 years being too poor to even get a bus to see a friend. At the same time, I believe it would make me more employable in my field (Medical-Social Anthropology/Cultural Gerontology), and after a rough start in life it would make me feel incredibly proud. I’ve been looking for research jobs but I was not prepared for how competitive it is, even though I have two first class degrees and very niche relevant professional experience. I am desperate for my life to start but I have no idea where to go from here.
I'm in my Masters now. I am grateful every day that that is the route I went.
I am doing a PhD in a hospital and the difference is massive to PhDs in Unis. My friends are doing their PhD in an actual Uni and it sounds like hell compared to us. We work 36 hours per week, never overwork, get paid handsomely as hospital employees, travel the world for conferences with our coworkers, and we are not REQUIRED to do TA work. It definitely helps that the culture in this country is egalitarian and everyone treats you as their equal, even the professors. We are on a first name basis with them. It's way more fun than what people describe a Uni PhD to be.
@@emerafey Good for you.
@@finmat95 Academically burnt out is one of my personal traits now. :\ The light at the end of the tunnel has never seemed so bright though. :)
oops, too late, it's starting in a few weeks
oops, too late, I'm 3 years in!
Oops, too late, 2 years in, after 5 years in Biotech as an M.Sc...
I’m on the same boat… but mine starts in the fall
I failed to get into Mensa.
Leave while you can
Great points Andy! I hope I’m not doing mine for any of those reasons, but time will tell 🤔. One thing I’m not so confident about is going to conferences. It would be great if you could one day make a video on how to maximize your experience at conference. I love the content! Keep doing what you do!
Thank, Ben! I will add that video to the list - thank you for the suggestion!
Oh my fucking god, you NAILED it on the head about the predatory supervisor thing. THANK YOU!
There are 2 types of PhD.
1. Young PhD: you are doing somebody else's work, ideas, inception to get a job, academic promotion, etc. This is exploitative but transactional.
2. Old PhD: exploring and publishing your own ideas, based on your experiences, to educate others and transmit information. This is a personal goal or ambition. It gives you authority in your profession. This is transmission of information, consistent with the 3rd rule of evolutionary theory.
I feel that the path of least resistance really makes sense to me right now as a reason for why I'm going into this field. I find it incredibly interesting sure, but I am already struggling with my mental health for my undergraduate dissertation. So it might be worth it trying to defer my offer/reapplying after 1 or 2 years as it will be a better, more thought-out decision by then. Thank you Andy!
My experience was that each new degree level was much more stressful than the level below it.
Hey, if you were struggling with mental health for your undergrad dissertation, I really hope you didn't jump head-first into the PhD! There's no shame whatsoever into giving industry a try, even though professors will try to scare you into believing that your "gap year" will shut you out of grad school.
The professor and the lab environment are probably the most important components that you have no control. Choose wisely, otherwise those can destroy you or make you quit/leave and hate the PhD.
Absolutely. Even in that decision you can often have little to no control. I picked my advisors but they also picked the students. I also filtered choices based on which programs were going to fund me.
This is so true! I have to fund most of the things I need by side projects. Luckily I have now a project which will finance my measurements (hours/weeks of machine costs) otherwise I would have just done a theoretical PhD.
Excellent video, Andy! Thank you, for trying to help young people avoid a big mistake. I have a Ph.D. from a prestigious university in a physical science and although I enjoyed the challenge, I do not feel it was worth the opportunity costs. I ultimately ended up doing very well in a marginally related career path, but the Ph.D. very little to do with my success. It is sad that professors and universities rarely care about what path is best fee their students.
This video was actually very reassuring. Both my older sisters are kind of in the "well, I'm here....guess I better finish, even though I hate it..." phase of getting their PhD's and I'm leaving in the morning for my first PhD program interview. I'm trying to go into epidemiology/infectious disease/public health and I'm very passionate about the work that waits for me on the other side of my PhD (and honestly, looking at the research at the institutions where I've applied makes me feel excited too). I was talking to a friend today who's also in the process of grad school interviews and acceptances, and she was saying that she's going to grad school sort of to put off the decision of what she wants to do. I hope she'll find something she loves during grad school to make the process worth it. I know it's a dark night of the soul, and I'm dreading that a little, but the work I want to do is the sort of thing that will save thousands, maybe even millions of lives, and is super cool to boot!
Or wreck the global economy for minimal benefits, irreparably scar the development of most children, allow for new and exciting violations of civil rights (in the name of public health!), forcibly inject hundreds of millions of people with experimental drugs that miiight not have been as useful and harmless as your colleagues promised, and destroy public confidence in both government and health authorities...
The Madness should have delivered a pretty strong dose of reality to your runaway idealism.
The second reason applies to me the most. I have already suffered a psychotic depression after finishing my undergraduate degree. I transferred university twice for a masters and am currently struggling soooo much with my masters thesis 😩 - like soo soo much - I can’t wait till I graduate and find a job with my masters- thank you so much for this video cuz it reaffirmed my concern about mental health and well being and academia. Now I know why my mom says I shouldn’t go for a phd.
💯 ego is the WRONG reason to do the phd. Usually when I dug down deep it was ego and pressure. I don’t have good reasons for doing a phd and I don’t think it will be healthy for me either- also work life balance is super important. I’m in the social sciences but this video was super super helpful specially about the mental health warning and ego warning. Thank you so much I’m so greatfull
grad school can be an ego festival and so is the academe.
I also struggled a lot with my master’s thesis. I found out that trying to ask deeper and deeper questions while writing would lead me down a very negative path. Also it would be on my mind all the time while not working on it. I took a year off it and ended up turning it in 2 years late. I was very glad it was over.
I’m much happier having an 8 hour job where I don’t have to think about it 24/7.
I agree with most of these. I didn't realize that so many people wanted to go into academia. After doing a PhD (almost done) I want to avoid academia and many other students I have talked to feel the same. I often tell Master's/undergraduate students that the only reason to do a PhD is to get them to their goal. For example, if they want to do research or required for growth in a company. Not just because they don't want to get a job. And if they don't know what to do then they can get paid significantly better to figure it out outside of graduate school (I am in engineering).
Just recently rejected a PhD. This video really helped assure me that I made the right decision. Thank you!
I got my PhD and even got a job in academia working at a major University. And even though my IQ clocked in 153 I couldn't handle the political minutia and fragile egos of most of my colleagues.
Really?🤣
I have been trying for 7 years dude, you threw away an opportunity for which i would have killed
@@HateDietPepsi what does your IQ have to do with this that you felt the need to mention it?
Getting a phd was one of the worst mistakes of my life. Doing a post doc fellowship and trying to make it in academia just cemented the error.
How ya doin these days
so whats good these days
I did not go to PhD but I went for another bachelor degree in science. I did chemistry bachelor and masters and now I want to do engineering. I was considering it because of the path of less resistance and money. Best decision of my life. Also to note I start working immediately after finishing within 6 months. Had to get a driving licence.
Thank you Dr. Andrew!! I am a Brazilian student and I am almost finishing my Master in Portugal. Sometimes during the masters I thought about to do a Phd in the future however I was not sure if this would be better for me or not, you helped me a lot with your video. Now I am sure that a Phd is not thr better path for me, thank you!! 😊😊😊
It depends. what were you studying?
You just literally named all of the reasons why I wanted to start a phd 😅 thanks for the helpful and insightful advice! I’m taking now time off after finishing my undergraduate studies to really think deeper what I want to do the next years of my life
I graduated with an Australian honour H1 with one undergraduate research project under my name, I embarked on a corporate career with a stable 9-5 job and a decent salary. However, after two years, I found myself burnt out and yearning for something more fulfilling. That's when I decided to return to academia and pursue a PhD, which was possible in Australia without a master's degree if you had achieved an H1 or A2. I savored the four years of the PhD program, even rejoined my old undergrad club despite hardly finding the time to commit to club activities, eventually earning my title, and was then faced with the prospect of returning to the corporate grind. Despite some naysayers who believed I had wasted four years of my life only to end up back where I started (which is true but oh well), I felt the experience was invaluable. The opportunity to immerse myself in my studies again and pursue my passion was priceless. Currently, I am thriving as a senior machine learning scientist with everything I could ask for, a home, car, funds for my hobbies, my video game collections, and a wonderful fiancé whom I meet during my PhD endevour. I never regret my decision to pursue a PhD and enjoyed every moment of the journey, I consider myself the lucky one comparing to others.
I have a PhD in engineering, and I'd say that my decisions were largely based on what Andy referred to as a "Path of least resistance" mentality. I enjoyed the college life in general and getting started in the mundane world of 9 to 5. or throwing myself into the highly competitive environments and work hours associated with chasing "extreme success" didn't sound appealing to me. The PhD seemed like a way to continue being responsibly productive towards achieving life goals (even though I wasn't sure what those goals were) while avoiding the part of life that I felt would ultimately make me miserable. Having gone through it, I can say that the work hours, intermittent extreme stress, and general sacrifices of my life were at maximums during this period. The PhD doesn't benefit me at all in my current job, and considering the years that were spent, it was definitely a horrible decision from a financial perspective. I also do not benefit from an egotistical perspective, as I cringe at the thought of being called "Dr." and generally do not make it known to others if at all possible.
However, I do not regret the decisions or the experience. The grueling nature of the journey makes the goal worthwhile, which is something that I can only really appreciate in retrospect. Persevering through these challenges helped me grow as a person, gave me real perspective in getting my priorities straight, provided me with true expertise in my field, and gave me confidence in my ability to succeed when it counts. These benefits are not strictly associated with obtaining a PhD, it is just a good way to throw yourself into something difficult, experience a prolonged period of discomfort, and see if you can make it through to the other side in one piece.
I have the chance to a PhD in engineering this September after finishing masters. I am at cross paths 50/50. Any advice? Cheers
@@johnnybravo6360 I don't really have much to add beyond what was written in the comment above. If you want a career in research or in scholastics at the college level, then the answer is easy. Beyond that, there are a lot of downsides (time, stress, finances, etc), while the only real upside is the experience itself.
I could have written these words with the difference that I am not already working or looking for a job, I gave myself holiday after the PhD but this (good) time is finishing.
People like it when they make acquaintance with an educated person, it's a tiny vicarious ego boost.
Why not use your title, you earned it
@@juliantheapostate8295 The answer is a bit complicated, and it's difficult to not come across as egotistical in the explanation, but I'll give it a shot.
It is readily apparent to me that I am significantly more intelligent than the average person, and I can fall back on IQ scores to be sure that I'm not deluding myself. According to my personal moral philosophy, it makes no sense to take pride in something that was obtained by luck. I feel very fortunate for my level of intelligence, but I did nothing to deserve it. I simply happened to fall at an outlier position in a randomized genetics/environment lottery. Expecting respect and admiration for being intelligent makes no more sense than expecting the same for being tall vs short or beautiful vs ugly. People do tend to judge based on these attributes because we are instinctively motivated to do it, but it makes no sense if you really think about it. That being the case, I try to constantly be mindful of keeping my self-opinion in check while evaluating the affects that my actions might have on the self-opinions of others.
It might seem like I'm working on the assumption that PhD = more intelligent than non-PhD, but I'm well aware that education level and intelligence do not always correlate. However, it doesn't change the fact that certain assumptions tend to come along with something like "Dr". Salutations and titles are social devices intended to designate positions in hierarchies. My goal is to not feel the need to push myself up at the expense of others, which is why I tend to cringe when people call me Dr.
Great videos, thank you for making it. I am currently an EE undergraduate student and the career landscape for people in my field does not really require a PhD. However, I have been very fortunate to be apart of research labs and seen the process people go through to reach that level of education. At the end of the day there are more reasons not to get a PhD but they are not inspiring and they are not what will give me peace when I am forced to look back on my life an evaluate the work I have done. Some people climb mt Everest but I aim to climb the heights of knowledge and endure the process so that I can be the best in my field at what I do. Again, thank you for the video keep up the good work people need reality checks before they commit to to endeavors of this much significance.
check the ego section there bud
Just started my PhD, I’m so grateful for discovering your channel! All your vids have been super helpful! 👍👍👍
I could never be a slave to my supervisor. I have 3 MA's in related subjects and found an excellent position in academe. Anybody wanting to commence a PhD should listen to your excellent presentation, Andy.
I don't know - it's not all bad. I drifted into my mine but got lucky I guess - the pay was nearly the same as a graduate job (I got one of the few Research assistant/PhD openings so I got a real salary), supervisor was a nice guy, it was pretty much 9-5 if you were organized, interesting research and published plenty and was done in less than 3 years (thanks UK). It was a great time which I really enjoyed.
These are all excellent and very solid reasons you list. If I could go back and mentor my younger self, I'd say "skip the PhD". But, there's a lot I learned along the way and I did have a great academic position (my dream job). Ultimately, I quit my dream academic position after a few years because I felt trapped by the rut created my PhD; I really wanted to branch out into new territory; those who hired me did so because of my thesis and weren't interested in me branching out into the other areas of interest. And, I was just exhausted from years of working on the same narrow topic. On the point of income, I discovered that the PhD initially opened doors to very nice salaries but they came with workloads even more onerous than the work I did on the PhD. Ultimately, I've come to feel that the PhD pegged me as someone worthy of higher pay but who will sacrifice everything to get the job done. That may have been me en route to the PhD, but once completed I really wanted a job would keep me fed and housed but also allow me to pursue other interests. In short, the PhD can become something of a straight-jacket.
I'm wanting to do a Ph.D. after undergrad because I really like math (applied and computational) and am interested in math research. That's it. The fact that most of the jobs I can see myself working in (in industry) when I get out of school require a doctorate is just a bonus.
Go for it Jacob
Math is the queen of science. Go for it!
Then you can become a 'Quant' for Jane street
I know someone who got a math PhD for fun and is a journalist now. People get it for fun sometimes.
Same here. I need a PhD to have the job where I will be having fun.
For path of least resistance, I totally agree. It's like staying in comfort zone. Thankfully, I was so fed with studying that I don't even want to go masters and have enough courage to try to find industry job.
I call a Ph.D. a mental illness machine. You put yourself in a position where at great financial expense you forego starting your family, earning money and experience in your field to answer a question very few people care about or even understand. When you finally graduate, you will likely owe 6 figures in debt, find it difficult to get good work, and it will take a toll on all your relationships. It took me two whole years of work to fully manage my depression. After two years of working for a Master’s level salary, I ended up laid off anyway. After 4 months of unemployment, I ended up being a permanent independent contractor who pays all my own benefits. There are just no good jobs out there for 90% of Ph.D.’s.
The white board has a yellow note, "Die Happy".
American. 25 years ago, I received an MS. I was on friendly terms with an older professor in the department that I TA'ed for. One evening at a department mixer, I told him that I was thinking of embarking on a PhD. In no uncertain terms, he told me NOT to do the PhD if I wanted any sort of quality in my life. He told me to enter university administration for the money, the hours, and the quality of life. According to him, the administrators were the future.
I followed his advice and it was the best decision I ever made. I am higher paid, more respected, more in demand, seemingly happier than the academics, much less stressed out. The professor was, exactly, correct.
Administrative salaries have steadily climbed over my career. Academic research and teaching "salaries" have plummeted during that same time. It's a shame, but it is the truth.
I got my bachelors in biology and between working 40 hours a week and being a full time student with 2 or 3 labs a week, I got so burnt out. Between stress for paying for my apartment and studying, it took a real toll on my mental health. I have a good job now in a hospital lab but I want to pursue my masters or phd. I’m so scared of getting burnt out again. It’s been 3 years and I am finally at a good place mentally. This video was an eye opener.
I received my PhD when I was 49 y.o. as a worker student.... Motivation is the first key and reason. In this sense you are right.
From personal experience and making some of the wrong choices myself:
Point 1) Agree
Point 2) Agree (or develop an alcohol problem etc.)
Point 3) Depends on subject
Point 4) Agree
Point 5) Agree
Point 6) Depends on you and your Supervisor
I did the PhD because it was the easy route when there were few jobs around. Fortunately I had a great Supervisor who has sadly passed away recently. Met some great people along the way but I am no better off financially etc. than if I had gone in to industry with just my degree.
I am now at the end of my undergraduate and i'm considering what my next step is. Though Phd is a bit far away to me as i will need a Master degree in between to get there, but the things you said about the least resistance path reflects exactly what im thinking of myself: im an introvert since i could't remember, i've been spending most of my life studying, both in high school and in uni. My grades are usually at the top of the class, and i also like studying a lot, but outside of that, i have little experience with any other things: i know little about economy or politics, i dont watch movies or sport, i dont play video games and many other things that my friends do but i dont even know exist. I hardly have any conversation with my friends other than studying and assignments, and the idea of going out to the real world does scare me out. Besides, anyone around me told that i need to pursue further education, my parents encourage me to study more as they think higher degree will always be better (that is how Asian parents think), i also have good relationship with my supervisor and he wants me to do research too. So suddenly i have to decide on what kind of things i want to do in the future, and it seems that i cannot really get much help from looking around. This video really helps me see my problem from different perspective. Thank you!
Me too 😂
I'm just like you !!
Just plant fruit trees and harvest will be in 3 to 4 years
My brother this isn't a healthy lifestyle or outlook on life. Being introverted is one thing, living in the world as an outsider is another. You should probably start getting out of your comfort zone and get to know the world you exist in a bit more instead of ignoring it further.
I understand you. But you should there's much more to life than studying and life is actually much simpler than you imagine. Look at the amount of people that are millionaires and billionaires that didn't went through the amount of pain that you did. You don't need to be too smart to have a great life, you just need to make some great decisions. Try to consider other career path that will make you money for less effort and time.
There's a difference between being passionate and being a top student. I think only passionate people, those who think they will be miserable if they don't go through that path, should get a PhD.
thank you so much for speaking about the mental health factors! im struggling to get undergrad now but its so challenging in that manner! the anxiety lvl is thru the roof
Utter solitude and isolation, permanent anxiety, intense impostor syndrome and deep fear of discovering mistakes in my own research and papers. My PhD got the worst out of me and, to be honest, the outcome wasn't worth so much suffering. In hindsight, my PhD feels like a huge mistake: it sparked insecurities I didn't know I had and it really put me in a dark place. All of this despite having a great relationship with my supervisor! I think PhDs are really damaging, at least the way they're conceived now: all the "publish or perish" ethic, the rush, the neverending circuit of workshops and meetings, the envies and mean reviews... Too much.
Andy I'm sure your honest opinion is gold for a lot of people! Very helpful, thank you.
I just dropped out of master by research after getting the examiners' report on my thesis back. It would have required an almost complete rewrite and I just don't have the energy or the inclination. I should have dropped it a long time ago, but better late than never! As a result of dropping the masters, I've also had to withdraw an application to do a PhD - which is almost as much a relief as knowing the masters has finished forever! 🤣
Thank you for this honest video. It gives a reality check to many people. I did (was pushed to do) PhD a few years back, and had to quit due to many issues (e.g.: financial). Lost my employment due to that. After the failure, I brought myself up and managed to continue career in Academia. But, deicided to leave Academia (for a while / for good?) since last year. It has caused me to have a burnout during the peak of pandemic at that time.
"You are doing it because it is the path of least resistance"
This is me, but I was doing a Master's (in finance rather than science). I temporarily withdrew after a month because of mental health problems, with the intent of going back next year, but I have no passion for the subject and I feel like I'm getting caught in the sunk-cost trap. I need to find work in my field of study before deciding to go back. Even if the pay is lower than having a Master's and I won't be fast-tracked into senior positions, it is better to take care of my mental health first. Maybe I will end up not enjoying working in that field and go in a completely different direction. It's a scary time for me, especially with the cost of living crisis.
*There is a 7th and 8th reason not to do it:*
7) PhD is not the end "level". You will need to do at least one,
possibly two Post-Doc positions which can last from 2-6 years after your PhD
8) If you want to be in Academia, most lucky PhDs who make it to Academia, leave after 2-6 years for various reasons.
I've seen this happen MANY times.
when I did my PhD in engineering I was studying for 12 - 16hrs a day …. I did meditation and long walks with my GF ( current wife) to temper my stress & depression ... it work out very well
[x] Mental health problems
[x] Path of least resistance
[x] Pathological ego issues
[x] Just want to have a decent job
Funny enough I want a PhD for ego. Seriously.
@@bigbrother4ever That's probably very common. You are just able to recognize and admit it.
PhD causing anxiety and depression is its own problem. It doesn't need to be this way.
Excellent video. The mind is the fundamental faculty through which all experience is mediated. Therefore the development and cultivation of the mind is crucial to the project of healthy living. At its most foundational, a PhD is an astute tool for disciplining the mind through focused inquiry. I loved it 😊❤️
Number 7: it locks you in a specific status in job market (at least in Finland). You'll be then too over-educated, that there wouldn't be enough jobs for those people, and it wouldn't be that high salary - high education required jobs, therefore it is a pretty common thing that there are many high educated persons being jobless, and/or doing totally different jobs what they were intended to do with Phil-Degree. Job markets are inflated by them. IT IS A TRAP!
I got my PhD in 2018. In 2016 I started to apply for teaching positions in higher education while wriring my dissertation. I was older 15 years than my peers. I never went beyond the first interview always among 250 candidates average. I was/am part time professor. I got depression and anxiety, I was so sick and burned out. My daughter suffered all my time in Masters and PhD. Now, I am a HAPPY receptionist, mom, and wife. I earn more than teaching part time and I have nothing to do out of working hours, payed vacations, sick days, holidays payed. I really regret all the time I wasted in doing a PhD.
I dropped out of Grad school (Civil Engineering) because I just could not see the road to academia clearly at 24 years old. I don't regret it I've really been able to make a name for myself in the Structural Engineering workforce. It's simply just not for everyone
I have a masters in Archeology. I was headed for a PhD, but my professor supervising me, told me a couple of these points plus own research on the pay which you mentioned as well and it made me do a masters instead. Super happy i chose this route
I love to dive deep in my field and expand my understanding. That is why I wanna do a PhD :)
That’s why I studied for a PhD and it was THE BEST decision of my life. Yes, it’s incredibly hard. But for me, it was so rewarding. It’s not for everyone, and you’ve got to know yourself.
Bro q jhoot bol raha hai..???
Thank you for being so candid and honest, it's rare in people nowadays, especially somebody that has a doctorate. I already knew I'd need a masters after this bachelors I'm currently doing, but a doctorate for me unless God himself told me I had to do it seems increasingly not worth the time.
It must be wonderful to be in such a privileged position that doing a PhD is the 'easy' option.
The stress was killing me. I'm glad I got out when I did. It set me back a couple years, but I'm doing just fine with a bachelor's degree in chemisty.
I was guilty of following the path of least resistance. During the economic downturn in 2010, a spot in the chem department fell into my lap. I figure that academia would be a good place to wait out the recession.
Hi, I find your experience interesting. I just studied the same thing, and I was offered the direct PhD.
To work at the academy, hasn't it required you to have to do a master's or doctorate to stay there?
Great video! I will say that my PhD did actually translate into higher starting pay in the public sector, but I would also say that the level of that increase did not necessarily reflect 1:1 the number of years and effort that went into getting that PhD. Still, I have zero regrets and did the PhD simply because I really wanted to do a PhD. The nice salary on the other side is just icing on the cake.
My PhD took 8 years of my life and to some degree I feel I lost my 20s. I ended up with anxiety and depression. It took over a decade to recover. Now I'm in my 40s and have a great resume and good quality publications behind me so I am finally reaping benefits. I'm glad my life has taken the course it has but it has not been easy!
The struggle was real.
@@finmat95 I'm guessing you've never had to deal with anxiety and depression. I'm glad for you.
@@noxiousdow You guessed wrong.
@@finmat95 if that's the case then I really can't understand why you'd reply like that
@@noxiousdow I don't understand why you don't undertand. It's a simple comment and there is nothing to explain.
In India, there is a craze to do PhD today. Maybe it's because of pressure within academia to have a Dr before your name. I too have a PhD in English Literature from JNU, New Delhi. Took me a long time because I was also changing jobs and moving from south India to north India at the same time. Overall, it was not a bad experience since I liked the topic I was working on and the doctoral degree led to some improvement in my career.
I'm currently doing a Master's and I have the opportunity to do a PhD. I am still weighing the options, but some of your reasons matched with mine: money, low resistance and the desire for a title. My end-goal is to become a consultant or even move to the US, though I am not against becoming an academic.
Mental health, path of least resistance and ego. Check. I needed your video four years ago, it would have probably spared me the worst time of my life.
Thanks for posting this video ! After I started my career, and met some colleagues who had PhD, I asked myself why I didn't do it.
In all of the cases, their PhD had absolutely nothing to do with what they were doing.
That fact and this video sort of put to rest my own questions of why I didn't get into it...
At the time, I had a sense of urgency to earn money.
I disagree with most points in this video.
#1 Money
Andy makes it sound that a PhD only gives about 3 percentage point increase in oncome over the master's degree. It certainly varies a lot between countries and fields. I don't know what study he's citing, but I'm confident that for most people the average difference would be _much_ bigger than 3%.
#2 Mental Health
That the mental health of PhD students is getting worse (and that 36% of them report problems) is meaningless without knowing the mental health status of the general population and without knowing the students' mental health status before their PhD programme.
#3 Your Only Goal Is Being an Academic
This doesn't make any sense at all. PhD is _required_ for academic career, so having only that goal is an argument _for_ doing a PhD. It's exactly when one has a back-up plan that one can start considering other options besides the PhD.
#5 Ego
Andy never says _why_ it's bad to do the PhD for ego reasons. He just states over and over - using slightly different phrasings - that it is bad.
When I was doing my Ph.D., my grandmother died when I was racing to meet a publishing deadline. I didn't attend the funeral, and to this day I have regrets. Even though I was allowed vacations, I cannot remember taking any except for Christmas holidays and special occasions that didn't interfere with any deadlines. I wasn't expecting high salaries or better paying jobs. To the contrary, I was expecting that my Ph.D. topic would present hurdles to employment because it had no obvious practical applications. Nor was ego and the allure of a job in Academia main drivers for me, although I did try to go that route. It was mostly a path of least resistance with the personal challenge of contributing to the scientific field.
The strange thing is that I am a big proponent of work life balance. But I didn't have work life balance when I did my Ph.D. I am currently employed in the regulatory field of the chemical industry. Work life balance can still be a struggle at times, but it is no way near as much of a struggle as it was during my Ph.D. and post-doc.
I couldn't agree more about how wrong is enrolling for a PhD just as a way to take some time before figuring out what to really do with your life. That was unfortunately my choice, which led to years of general dissatisfaction and above of that, it made my life plans way more confused and chaotic! However, the problem solving skills, the resilience and the way you shape your mind to critical thinking is something that I would have probably never learned without spending several years in PhD and post-docs. Also, I started learning coding and DSP during those years, which are now the core skills of my own audio plug-in business. Yes, I eventually quitted too but man, it's just the best decision I ever made; just ANY single aspect of my life significantly improved after then. I still remember that awkward meeting with my line managers where I expressed my future plans to launch my own business, as I will never forget the last day I stepped out the building , waived hi to my now ex-colleagues and walked home. Btw, so many ex-academics become business owners, do you think it's just a forced choice given the little options you have if you want to jump from the University to the 'real world', or maybe the experience as a researcher gives you some transferrable skills that turn out so valuable when running a business?
1. Money
2. Anxiety and Depression.
3. Academic position
and in the end worst nothing when so few academic positions exist anyway.
I have a law degree and much of the same could be said of that degree. Universities, for being “non-profit,” sure love money from students, especially if the student is relying on debt.
Hey Andy, as a PhD student, almost done with writing and just completed some data and graffics, but you know this is the most difficult part, I am soo grateful that I found your channel and subscribed. I really like this video and hopefully my reasons are not based on the above mentioned reasons. Would you make a video of for example the 5 or 7 most common reasons to write a PhD or the most useful paths including PhD. :)
That would be a good topic for a video.
Thank you! I needed to hear your opinion.
Thank you, Andy, all of your points are very accurate. I stopped at the Masters level, I realized I was getting "out of my depth."
In my cohort, 2 out of 6 dropped out and didn't finish the Masters - the environment was toxic, the pressure was intense.
I also saw some PhD students drop out after 5-7 years, left with just an ABD....a tragic waste of time. In summary, I went alt-ac after my Masters, I took a non-academic career with a good salary and benefits. As a mere side-gig I did 20 years of part-time adjunct lecturing, 1-2 classes per year. The adjunct pay was peanuts, but I enjoyed academe as an avocation.
I was a 'path of least resistance' graduate student, and it was godawful, for all the health reasons mentioned here. It was a tight job market, after 2008, they were willing to pay me, and I wanted to learn everything about everything (which is not what a PhD is for, but I had so enjoyed sharing upper-level undergraduate courses with graduate students that I thought I knew what I was getting into).
I ended up leaving with a Masters, but I honestly wish I had left with nothing. It wrecked my mental health for years, completely ruined my ability to study anything in a classroom setting (which makes it very hard to re-train), and I am now so uncertain of my actual personal boundaries that it is difficult for me not to spontaneously quit my job, when times are tough. I even lost the ability to read for several years (I have fairly severe brain fog and working memory issues, now, that I did not have, before).
It may help to do "nothing" for a while. Get a dog/cat. Sleep a lot watch goofy movies or whatever you want. Be outside - take your time. Don't bother to concentrate on anything in particular... "Drink coffee and eat cookies." Listen to music. Take your time. Be lazy, be selfish. Do what you want. After a while your memory will come back. I lost my whole family one to Alzheimer's, another to cancer, another to heart disease. Now I have no one except a veteran who has PTSD, anger and addiction issues- Also I had a really stressful job working with troubled kids in a special education setting. Now I live an isolated life. But! I have time to hang out on you tube. Drink coffee and read and do nothing. And what the hay... My memory is back. I've been successfully memorizing Latin passages and learning a new language. And I can complete whole sentences without effort (occasionally get stressed and freeze.) At least give yourself a week or two to be as free from care as possible. There is hope, especially if you're young(er). Oh, horror movies aren't helpful.
@Anita Mcginnis Thank you. It has been about seven years. I spent the first few years exploring sewing, dancing, medieval fighting - all the things I had put off so long, because school 'had to come first'. It was glorious, but not very secure (as in, I was couchsurfing). I optimistically tried to jump back into the 'real world' in 2018 and 2019, but it was a bad way to go about things and ended up being more of a setback than anything.
I am lucky to be in a position now where I do not need to support myself entirely on my own, and it has given me breathing room to slowly deconstruct old expectations and bridge the gap between my old intellectual life and my vibrant new material interests.
I have regained the ability to read, and my brain fog is much better-but it still creeps up on me at unexpected moments-to enough of an extent that I have had to build a system of contingencies around everything I do.
Guys I agree completely with what is being said. I’m in my third year and I have passed two milestones successfully. I’m seriously thinking of quitting as there is no prospect of getting any where further career wise , one opportunity such as Research Assistance comes up and 300 applicants queuing. It’s dire and very disappointing.
If you’re phd is funded with a guaranteed post then definitely go for it , otherwise don’t waste your time.
Very good video. Thanks a lot for these valuable insights!
Thank you, Andy, it was very informative. Maybe it is a kind of a strange question but what is your idea of doing a Ph.D. abroad for experiencing life in another country?
You can experience life in another countries studying the language of the country, some course, a bachelors or master degree, not necessarily phd. I graduated from a Chinese university and the experience of living in China was awesome. I may go to study abroad for masters degree but I doubt for phd. I think it’s too much stress and I need to work. I recommend you to study masters again but as you like, maybe in your major is better to have phd. Good luck!
Thanks for your honesty. Most people I've met in college would never speak frankly about the pro/con of university
I couldn't even manage the stress when i was doing my master's dissertation... I had headache everyday.. But now i want to teach at college and phd is preffered... So i have written the government exam here jn India.. Results are coming next month.. But i think i would be making a bad decision if i chose to do phd... I have high grades at college.. But i feel like im wasting my life... What you said is right....
Currently a final year student of Bioinformatics.. Although my major has hugeee potential of research n that's literally a research based major for whose who want to pursue phD, but I'm absolutely not rooting for another 4 yrs of extreme pressure and anxiety since i already have anxiety issues, adhd etc.. It could be a toll in my mental health.. Besides, as you mentioned the first point thag if u're goal is to make money then don't go for phD... That's soo damn true.. PhDs should be for those who're extremely enthusiastic about their subjects and research.. They're literally in love with it.. in that case, one can pursue phD, otherwise i blv there r tons of ways to make a lot of money.. Maybe one should change the pathway n do a lotmore job hopping.. but if u're intention is to make money alongside learning n mastering in ur preferred field, then just go for it... Most of us, especially, life-science students face this dilemma whether to follow the crowd who're doing piles of degrees or changing the route n do something different, so I'm happy that i realized it way before my graduation that phD isn't for me.. Now I'm planning to shift to different major lik Data science which i got to know via Bioinformatics especially i got to do few courses aligning both Machine learning and Bioinformatics for early stage of cancers... That's how it happened and for this shift, as far as i knw, i need a Masters degree or double masters just to excel in this field... Hopefully I'll be in a much content place in the future...
Thanks for talking me out of the thought of doing one. My current self is slightly dejected but I know future me will thank you immensely
UA-camr tips for you, Andy: Add "0:00 Introduction" on top of the timestamps "0:36 Doing a Ph.D. is a big decision" will give you a sectioned look on the progress bar!
Thanks for making this video, Andy! I would add to a huge disclaimer to the point on the "path of least resistance" that PhD is not simply a "job option". It should be seen as an education and a huge time investment. I just realized quite many PhD students on Twitter insisted PhD is "a job"/ "Job-like", what a huge misconception, and misleading to the younger students!
Thanks for the UA-cam tip that was awesome. I'm going to include that in all of my videos going forward.
It was really cool that you mentioned your friend going into medical physics. That is exactly the field I'm in. Thank you for the great video!
Cheers Andy, great, honest , down to earth videos. Good to hear you had a good experience in Oz!
(I=Australian living in Poland, currently thinknig about applying for a PhD in the UK!)
As a recent PhD graduate, I suggest do not do PhD. It is a free labor-work to satisfy the reviewers and your supervisor. Indeed, post-doc is the same as well. You don't get the money you deserve.
Thank you so much for your great feedback.
I think I feel like I am missing something but I think I'll just youtube things from now on
Such a sensible article. I struggled with my MA as I had a breakdown 10 yrs before it but eventually did get it with a distinction but have struggled with my PhD for years and years and wish I had never started. I don't know if I will ever finish it as I am struggling again with mental health.
Hello Andy,
Thank you so much for your very interesting content...
I just started my Ph.D at south korea, however am still in my home country because of airport closer....
The starting is very tough because of time difference -8 hours 😌
Very good to check the reasons once and controlling EGO one regularly.
Thank you again 💕
And keep it up
Wahiba
I am doing a Ph.D. in South Korea, which university are you in?
I could not but agree with you. I spent 6 years engaging in a PhD, which, by the way, I achieved with highest honours. But the full package also implied long burn out periods, self-doubt, impostor syndrome, and a posttraumatic stress that prevented me from doing any meaningful research for more than ten years. Was it worth it? Personally, I would say yes, it was worth it, but one should know how's going to be when engaging in a PhD. As for me, I was extremely naïve when I applied for it.
Gladly I am doing PhD for killing time
What is your source of income in this case? :)
About to start my PhD this fall semester. Also, a new subscriber
Finishing up my Ph.D., my suggestion regarding your mental issues: (1) Exercise (running especially) regularly (2) Find a supportive community of friends and peers (3) Eat healthy (4) Find a healthy work/life balance (5) Make sure to find a counselor in your area early on in case you find yourself in an emergency. You got this!
I'm in a PhD in nursing program and work full time as an operating room (OR) nurse. I am doing the program to 1) write textbooks and articles 2) extend my working life (OR is dangerous) 3) research the OR from a nursing perspective. And nurse educators/instructors have been hit hard through the last forever and the profession is in desperate need of instructors. And here I am, not for the money or the academic kudos or the ego boost, but because I am needed to teach the next generation of nurses.
Actually insightful, well done video
I watched this video before I started my PhD program and reviewing again not that I am nearly 1/3 into it. Excellent points.
I think wanting to be professor, and therefore stay in academia, is a legit reason to get a PhD, because it's the only way you can achieve it (at least where I'm from and in my field). And is an aspiration just as good as any other. I mean, if you want to be a high school teacher, you do what you have to do to get you there. Is the same for university professors, and tha includes the PhD. And I think that when somebody wants to become one, it means they love researching and teaching, so I really don't see what can be wrong with that.
Also, I know what you mean about people with mental health issues, but I also don't think that people in those situations should let their condition define them and make their life choices for them. I personally would hate my mental problems getting on the way of achieving my goals (and that would probably lead to more problems).
There’s nothing wrong with it. that was my main reason for getting my PhD-that is, to be an academic and a scholar. BUT you have to understand your odds, too. Depending on your field (mine is psychology), the chances of getting an assistant professor position (not a lecturer or an adjunct, but a tenure-track professor position) right out of grad school can be pretty low (slim to none, even). That’s why post docs are now required in many fields, including mine, just to be competitive for a tenure track position at a university. It’s just good to have a back up plan and know your options before deciding to pursue a PhD.
Correctly said.
Leaving with an MS was the best thing I ever did.
I have anxiety and I am starting a PhD. My logic was "well, I'm anxious no matter what I do. So I may as well do what I like, even if it's stressful" but I wonder if I'm making the right decision. My aim in the months before I start is to set myself into good habits to help myself manage. I want to aim to treat my PhD like any other job.
Please don’t let this video make you feel more anxious or regretful at all of your decision. I also have anxiety amongst other mental illnesses, and I have faith that if you have the passion for it you’ll do just fine in your program. Life can be stressful no matter what you do. Just try to cope ahead and kinda like you said just set yourself up with some good habits and a good game plan in case you ever find yourself at a low point in your phd journey. Good luck