I tested both and ordered the AT DCT ES. Picking it up in 2 weeks from posting this. Agreed the BMW has more all out performance and I have been a fan of the boxer engine my while life but I prefer how the AT is tuned for low down torque to just chug along effortlessly with that low compression engine that you know will be reliable. Plus more fuel choices should you do a trip through areas in Asia and Africa where the only fuel you can get sometimes is from little bottles sold street side at about 81 octane. Perhaps it just suits my riding style better. I don't go for all out acceleration and don't like revving up my bike like a chainsaw. Also totally a bias thing but I prefer the sound and looks of the AT.
Literally same for me. I ordered mine AT two weeks ago, I hope it arrives soon. BTW - did you bought "in stock" or ordered it? If ordered - how long it took to arrive?
Thanks a lot for sharing! I know that some riders from North America mention the fuel matter too. Yet here in Europe it's not the case at all as 95 octane petrol is a minimum, so it's easier if one just rides around like most do.
Europe, Japan, and Australia use a different method (RON) for measuring octane than North America ((R+M)/2). It's a common misconception that euro fuel is higher octane.
Saying BMW has more all out performance is like saying BMW makes better cars then Toyota...😂😂😂 Adventure Sports DCT AT kills the GS on every aspect in my opinion. GS is nothing but overpriced piece of crap which needs more money to maintain then to buy it. At least here in Europe. Honda is at the top of the game.
I dont know about that they are pretty close in price . Yeah bmw is 3-5k more depending on the accesories but that makes it good value for money compared to the africa twin . Bmw is overpriced as a brand but in this situation the africa twin is the overpriced one which is very disappointing.
Would be good to take a deeper look at the local versions. Here it's similar comparing base versions but looking and the ones that actually are sold, so the top ones, the difference is close to none. But if they're comparably equipped and that's the difference in price, then the "price and value for money" may be different.
I’ve been deciding between an ATAS and a Triumph Tiger 1200. Each has its advantages and disadvantages but going with the Africa Twin. It’s been my dream bike for a long time and it just looks so damn sexy! Don’t like the look of the front beak that so many other ADV bikes have
I had a 2023 Tiger GT Explorer. I put 2500 miles on it in 2 months and traded it for a GSA. The Tiger has a fantastic suspension ,brakes and comfort, however it sends so much vibration throught the pegs and bars I could not live with it. My dealer always has 1 or 2 2023 used Tigers for sale with low milage. Get the Honda
The GSs (and all the Boxer with drive shaft and tele levers) are extremely reliable. No need to check the chain every once in a while like the Africa Twin. I have driven both and there’s no comparison. The dct is cool for long drives but on twisty roads you’d want a gear pedal.
And KTM 1290 and Triumph Tiger 1200 and Harley-Davidson Pan America - and it is. Where I live though, Adventure Sports with electronic suspension costs just as much as those. Multistrada V4S on the other hand is also way more expensive than ALL of the mentioned ones, so it would be in a class of its own. And what to put Africa Twin next to then? BMW F 850 GS, V-Strom 800DE and Transalp 750? Nah...
@@VToldsMotoShow i'm not saying its ur fault or something, here in Italy a full spec GS is like 29.000€. And a closer comparison with the Africa Twin for me would be the v-strom 1050de*.
Comparison is always iffy... And never iffy. Here it's two flagship models (well, BMW almost). He could have gone for the price-range, expensive v.s. cheap, whatever. I liked this video, but also agree that a stacked BMW should maybe compare v.s. two bikes costing the same. At the end of the day, we all do our own math. Thanks for the vid.
That is a great idea as new 24 AT is modified to compete more realistically with GS. Still,, a strong nose dive on AT and old dash, as well as not as high spec suspension will still make it inferior to GS, but knowing that BMW now has automatic transmission goes to tell that both companies are learning from each other and working to get better. Honda is lowering suspension and putting 19" front wheel, and GS is getting automatic to match Honda's DCT. At the end, good for both companies and consumers.
The GS is an engineering study in it self. But later years the quality of BMW at least here in Europe has gone down the drain. Drive shaft issues , alternators giving up after to short time for such an expensive bike. And you have to split the gear box and engine to get to the alternator.........and then not to mention the cost of service and repairs........but as long as it runs, a fantastic bike. For such a prize it should last decades with ordinary appropriate service.🙂
I’ve ridden both. But it really comes down to one thing - what would do with the bike? If you are planning on half off road + half onroad around the world - Go with Honda. If you are staying within the Western/Eastern part of the Europe, mostly on highways, then go with BMW.
I spent 4 years doing a rtw, belive me both are shit for that. Even the t700 is a bit big. Once beyond Europe you will never go more than 100km, and mostly 70km. Power is useless, wright is disaster.
@@domp51 I envy you! You are absolutely right about the weight. My RTW bike would be either DR650 or XR650L with bigger tank mods. (V-Strom 650 or KLR is also a good choice I think...if you are mostly sticking to highways).
I always wanted a gs and my son just bought me one, I couldn't believe it, I am 69 now and absolutely nothing is going to stop me , I live in Tasmania where every man and his bike go to for the excellent twisties over here. I am going to travel the outback on the mainland. Your review was very genuine, thanks.
Wow, I'd like to one day be like your son to my father. Thanks a lot for sharing as it's a nice story. Enjoy the bike and definitely, definitely stay safe on the road. Great bike you've got!
Impossible to judge that reliably without a separate organization conducting their research on hundreds or thousands of bikes. I'm definitely not that organization. Based on a general opinion, it's also not clear which bike has an image of a more reliable one. BMW GS is there in such huge numbers around the world, that there likely are many more singular instances of malfunctions or failures. Then we'd have to compare that to all of those bikes sold etc. Not a thing that's really possible to be judged on our own.
I've been driving the Africa DCT basic model (Not the Adventure sport) for the lasts 2 years and as usual you said it all, But there is a nuance that must be amplified- If one is fancy a big adventure tourer he might find himself in a bit of a pickle- The medium size (Tenere, Desert X, Tiger 900 act) which are the real adventure bikes (they might actually taste a bit of gravel in their life time) simply not doing it to him and the top range of the adventures (KTM 1290, GS, Tiger 1200, Ducati V4 and so on) are way too expensive and heavy, for them there is only one solution- Africa twin base model (DCT or not) Sure, you're giving up electric suspension, fuel tank capacity and quite a lot of power but damme- you get that real kick ass tall mean "I eat sh't from no one" bike and.. you're paying 40% less! Actually- I can't think on none other that gives such package for that price. Now for the Africa Adventure sport I simply can't understand- In case you're not in that "must have DCT" category why the hell one will pay almost the same coin for an Africa twin and not for one of the big daddy's that give you so much more (for 5-10% price increase?) This is a real mystery for me, I think that the base model should have been 80% of the Africa delivers and the other 20% are for the DCT top nudge es lovers only. In short- I think that the Africa twin is misunderstood in our days & market options ,the "base" model simply doesn’t get the real respect he should get, Of course Honda is happy to be paid 30% more for basically the same bike but…
Very good point and I can only imagine that going for a fully specced Africa Twin that costs as much a fully equipped R 1250 GS, Triumph Tiger 1200 and KTMs is about buying yourself a very specific brand and name. Is it worth overall? It's too personal to assess I believe but at the same time it's the same with cars - Mercedes G-Class as an example or an old Land Rover Defender which had less than nothing yet it would cost quite a lot. Some are willing to pay for a name and once they do, they go all in. And I get it as it's about something else than "logical" value. And since not much is about logic with motorcycle purchases, then Adventure Sports units with electronic suspension come on top. Thanks a lot for sharing the thoughts!
I ment give up power between the Africa and the more expensive higher catagory bikes. the Africa has around 100hp while the gs has 130 ducati 170 ktm 160 and so on. The point is that you pay 40% more for this upgraded power figuers and electric suspension and in my opinion for 80% of the users the Africa gives more then enough tech & power and you can save a lot of money @@zombeloffical
ATwin compression ratio 10:1 GS 12.5:1 Africa twin wins in 3rd world countries where low-quality fuels are present. ATwin parts availability vs BMW and price per part. Backwater rides ATwin wins. Opposable piston? are shin bashers in corners and belong on aircraft not motorcycles.
I love the GSA and do think is better than the ATAS (i own the Honda) but DCT and cost is a winner all day for me. The GS may be better but not enough, the Honda is very good and trust me this power question is not an issue. go and test ride both. thanks for the video.
It's also a totally valid thing to do. I take into account the sound and some don't care about it, so choosing based on how a vehicle looks can be understandable if you can live with some compromises in other places.
I've had both (ATAS 1000 DCT - 2018 and now a R1250GSA - 2019) ... Problem for me was the 21" front wheel ... I just don't like it. It also came with tube tyres, which limits my flat tyre solutions (and capabilities) on the side of the road. Also a chain, needs way more maintenance and cleaning than a shaft drive. Another difference is maintenance cost, surprisingly in favour of the big GSA. You will lose a lot of money at the dealer for working hours on the ATAS, due to all the different plastic parts that need to be removed to do some basic maintenance. But I have to say: the sound of the ATAS is magnificent and I had a lot of fun with it. The stock exhaust on the BMW is just terrible. Looking for a nice street legal replacement now (only the damper, like BOS Desertfox f.e.) I never wanted a BMW R1250 GSA, because every mountain pass is full of them. Now I have one myself, I totally understand al the other people ;-).
Thanks a lot for sharing your experiences with both models. I agree that being one of many isn't the coolest but on the other hand, we all tend to prefer a Mercedes over a Renault, so I get the point and it's hard to not agree ;)
I like Both the BMW and also the newer 2020 on Africa Twin. Considering the newer Africa Twin Adventure Sports with Electronic suspension adaptive cruise control and manual Gearbox (possibly supercharging from 2024)
Lots of people hate BMW because of maintenance and price. ?But there is a lot more to consider before you can make an assumption or comment on them. "Too high of a price": True for the regular "Joe" that doesn't have any skills in mechanics and trusts anyone else to do everything for them. Seems like you haven't been on one of those GSs, GTs or GTLs, or even any BMW motorcycle to know the difference (correct me if I'm wrong). The reason I say that is because some people say that the AT's DCT is better than the GS in all aspects (definitely not 100% true for anyone that knows the GS and the AT). Anyone I know that have tried any of the BMW Bikes have a different, or a change of opinion if they are not completely biased by a certain brand. AT is better off-roading though, no doubt in my mind. And the DCT is very nice also, which is a huge plus for me. I would have a DCT instead of any regular transmission on a bike at any time. But guess what, that's as far as the AT is going to take you when you actually ride it side by side against the GS or GSA. So DCT and Off-Roading goes to the AT in my opinion. I am planning to buy me an AT because of the DCT; However, if I find a good price on a GS, I'm not putting my money on that AT since I would like to have a lot of the accessories that the GS already include for almost the same price at the end of the deal. I love the looks of the AT over the GS at any time. But it is a lot of comfort and power to consider on the GS. It is a matter of what deal I can find when I pull the trigger to get my ADV bike. If I was planning on doing a lot of off-roading, the AT would definitely be my choice. Reliability of Honda is a good thing going for the AT! But that is also a very relative topic that depends on who is doing the maintenance on the BMW (me in this case). I do my own maintenance so reliability is not an issue at all. In my case I do everything on my bikes because I can't trust any mechanics, especially the ones BMW hires at their shops. They charge way too much $$$(that would be the expensive crap people talk about) and don't seem to do a very good job at it. I am in the US and the closest BMW shops I have are about 2.5 - 3 hours away, and the reviews are horrendous (price and mistakes made by "mechanics" or Techs, etc.). I do all the maintenance for my GTL K1600 because of that.
Having owned both a ATAS ES DCT and a GSA, the Honda wins in fuel economy by almost 10 mpg. GSA is more nimble due to the smaller front wheel. Honda electronics win by a mile with car play and android auto.
Wow, this is useful and surprising at the same time. I'd expect GS (not sure about the Adventure though) to be more fuel efficient but clearly - it doesn't have to be that way necessarily.
I own an ATAS and a GS. I don’t understand. My GS gets better fuel mileage by far. Also I agree with the entire video. The one thing that is heads and shoulders better about the Africa Twin is off-road. It is so much better than the GS off the pavement.
Thanks for the review. Taking into consideration that motorcycle ownership and rider preferences are subjective, I may understand how the GS can outperform the 2023 ATAS on almost every front for a particular rider. However, I've owned and have ridden a number of adventure motorcycles and honestly, a 2022 GS 1250 with 20 000kms felt foreign (odd) to me. Even if the ATAS has much less top end HP & torque, what it does have is very usable and satisfying for me. Also, because it's a low stress engine, reliability is likely enhanced for the benefit of its owner. To that end, I'm hoping the 2024 ATAS variant will be even more competitive, because I plan to trade my current bike for one once they become available in Canada. :)
Currently selling my GS1250 after first test drive of AT. It destroys the BMW in multiple areas but mostly in handling off road / Dirt roads. BMW is all over the place while the AT is a dream with excellent handling.
@@VToldsMotoShow Possibly some contribution yes, but we are three GS guys with different tires (granted mostly 50/50) and all swopped bikes coming to same conclusions.... That said perhaps going more aggressive on tires could improve the situation.
@@beatsmarttie5777 A fair remark. In our case as part of the adventure weekend away thing we often travel pretty long distances tar to get to nice gravel roads so really don't want a small dirt bike for that. We dont do too much single track stuff, but still just on gravel roads with loose rocks and sand the difference in stability and handling of the AT is day and night better.
Among your reviews I have watched, you have found the slow speed stability of the bike poor in all of the cases! Vstrom1050xt, Moto Guzzi v85tt, Ktm 1290s and finally Africa twin... interesting.
I'll direct you to the ones that are great at low speed stability in order: Triumph Tiger 1200 GT, Moto Guzzi V85TT (might be a confusion as it's great at low speeds, just a throttle control issue is a pain), Kawasaki Versys 1000, KTM 1290 Super Adventure R (not S!), and BMW R 1250 GS. The mentioned ones by you with an exception of Moto Guzzi I feel behave worse there indeed.
Because this review is biased against the Africa Twin. Don't believe on people who 'rode' a bike shorter than they vlogged it. Listen to people who actually owned them. Go for the 2024 africa twin. It's 19" wheelset now comes with tubeless tires ;)
I agree with the importance of sound. I like to lock the bikes into gear around town so I can use the engine to speed up and slow for cars and lights. The automatic can prove fun I suppose in rare instances. It's not practical the way I ride to buy automatic.
Africa in one of the more aggressive S modes has a looooot of engine braking - the top mode has it even too much for my taste, almost like an electric vehicle in energy recovery mode. So this wouldn't be an issue, if I got your point correctly.
i dont get this comparison the bmw looks like its calibrated more for paved road and the africa for the dirt .if i had a picture only from the sits of this bikes i could tell you the use of them. a fair comparison would be also in the dirt . im not a Honda fanboy and i might be wrong but the bikes look too different .
I'm unable to compare them in an area that I myself as a user would never use them. I get the point but it's like with modern SUVs with AWD/4x4 drivetrains, offroad modes etc. which is all mostly for marketing and image purposes. I've got one of those myself too. Even with a rear diff lock. Used it once just for fun. So it's absolutely irrelevant for my use. The same applies here in the big ADV segment. They're both bad offroad anyway because of their weight and how huge they both are.
IMHO, Honda has built the best world travel Adventure bike, not just another Commuter bike. An important fact that ALL the comparisons seem to miss, maybe because they only test ride in big cities, is the compression ratio. Honda sacrificed HP/TQ numbers for the ability to run on sub-standard (non-premium) fuel. Have fun with the BMW GS and it's12.5:1 compression or the Ducati Multistrada with it's14.0:1 compression ratio in places in the world with non-premium fuels. The Honda Africa Twin with 10.1:1 can run on very sub-standard fuels. Couple this with Honda's world wide network for getting repairs, as compared with Any other competitor, and you have a true world traveler. I also believe in the future Honda will make the HP/TQ adjustment increase with a supercharger and retain the lower compression ratio.
Well discussed, but a few important aspects that most buyers consider were not included in the review - reliability, cost of maintenance and dealer network. BMW is always going to need more upkeep and will be costlier than Honda. AT will handle better off road, as it was derived from original Dakar bike. GS on the other hand is more touring oriented and has more bells and whistles. BMW as a brand caters to riders who want to say something with the brand they use, where Honda is no-nonsense practical and down to earth brand that is not so much concerned with fluff. Both great bikes, different in their own way and who they are intended to. For me personally, I would chose Honda any day over BMW for the fundamental reasons of reliability, quality and built for purpose. Good review.
It would be interesting to do another comparison now, with the new 19” front wheel 2024 version of the AT Adventure Sports. I’ve just sold my 2019 1250 GSA, and ordered the new AT SS DCT.
@@VToldsMotoShow I think it will be worth it, the new front wheel and other changes have made significant changes to the handling. Also, you could use the 1300GS. I would certainly look forward to that review👍
That can be done by BMW and Honda dealerships in our location as this will differ city to city, not to mention country to country. Comparing percentage-wise, I also think that it may not be relevant.
I sold my 2014 GSA for a DCT ATAS ES. I’m with you 100%. I kept the Honda for less than year and 2,000 miles for all the reasons you identified. I have a KTM 890 Adventure non-R which has put the fun back into riding for me.
Thanks a lot for sharing! And indeed different motorcycles = different styles. I'm going to get 890 Adventure in non-R version this coming Saturday for some time to test, so I'm super interested what I'm going to feel on it but it's definitely going to be something. All the best with yours!
I rode a BMW 1250 GS a week ago, a disaster, after 5km I turned around and handed in the bike. Throttle response is like a rubber, in dynamic mode, very bad. Brakes are really good (on the Africa Twin too). Wind protection is bad for my 185cm, regardless of whether the shield is up or down. I will never buy a BMW GS
what a sad reality we have come to. Prices of these bikes are eyewatering, so much tech. DCT on a motorbike? - get a scooter ffs (yes i tried one). So much tech it's scary to leave the local dealership's area code in case it goes wrong (yes.. it has gone wrong). Adv bikes are about simplicity, and none of the 2 is simple, bulletproof or super reliable. I do love the GS and i had a GSA, an excellent on road bike. I cant begin to even imagine taking a £20k motorbike and crashing it off road, and that's not the fully specced one.
Ah yes, these are the new era motorcycles. I cannot say that I don't enjoy some of the tech onboard as it can maki riding safer, more pleasant and fun, but looking for simplicity, yeah, it's not the right time or place. The same goes for cars with not many - if any for that matter - exceptions.
@@VToldsMotoShow i agree. Problem is all this tech has the potential to get you stranded, potentially turning one’s “adventure “ into a nightmare. I can understand all this tech on a street bike around your local dealership, (KTM/Aprilia have a deficit of those) and the biggest problem is the owner cant do anything about it on their own without plugging it into a computer. Less is more.
loads of very useful information, but is it really ...? If I am not mistaken, all these very important things you mentioned are waying towards GS if used on the paved roads. I am really wondering if these advantages matter at all if you take the bikes where they really belong ...
Hard to tell as it's hard to measure and some organization would have to conduct a wide research on that for us to be able to refer to it. There may be issues with the GS and Africa - as always, depends on a specific unit.
Doposażyłem swoją Afrykę w quickshifter i nie żałuję. Przebijanie biegów w górę przy mocniejszym odkręceniu manetki i towarzyszący temu strzał jest uzależniający :) Pozdro!
Very good comparison video. I wonder how capable the non adv GS is off road with decent off road tires ?? I am really torn between the bikes. Im a honda guy but the low center of gravity in GS may be the determining factor for me as im a below avg weight rider and may not be able to risk going off road and not being able to pick up the bike. I like the non adv version of the AT because it has more of a dirt bike look. For some reason and fully loaded africa twin Adv spt looks too busy… as if it is a off road baby goldwing. The base model looks much cleaner and more sporty. If im not going for rock climbing on a bike then i hope the base GS will do just fine with decent offroad tires
A base GS can have some advantages over an Adventure. The first being psychological as Adventure is so wide in its tank area that I start feeling intimidated by it myself. It's also taller and so easier to drop. It's just that ground clearance of a standard R1250GS is not impressive at just 18,5 cm which really isn't that much. On the other hand you'd have to know what terrain you expect to be riding on. If it's rocks, then this may have its disadvantages, but if other non-ground-clearance-related places, then I personally would prefer the regular GS over an Adventure. Less weight also helps.
I've owned both. I still own the ATES. People buy the BMW for touring, it's good, but if you're really not going to ADV then just buy a true touring bike. I never had any issues with my Honda, a boat load with the BMW.
I'm glad to hear that you've found the right solution. Touring motorcycles are short, usually force you to lean and support yourself on your wrists, don't do well at low speeds and in the cities. Even large adventure motorcycles tick all the boxes here. Just like SUV car which nowadays likely more than 99% of owners bought not to travel through Africa or Asia to the other side of these continents. They've got certain advantages that no other segment offers.
Great street specific review and comparison. But I feel like it’s silly to judge adv bikes without looking at their off-road performance. I.e. the title of this video should be “Which adv bike is better commuter”
It might be but to me personally this is all that matters and I'm confirming it to myself after following some of such requests and now taking the mid-size ADV motorcycles for a spin also in light offroad and it's definitely not where they should be ridden. None of them. If tomorrow Ducati DesertX won't surprise me, then after having ridden them all, I'll be able to confirm that these are no enduros. Including a Tenere 700 and even a Tuareg 660 that's the closest so far but so stiff that barely stays on its wheels when riding faster over a rough trail.
AF looks just right, the GS looks like most bikes today very similar to a stinging hornet. Not my style. I go for easy cruising and not for acceleration and some low but solid RPM that sound good and not loud like a bulldozer or a Harley. Not much out there what can be a winner ...
Here in Arkansas we have these rocky trails that a GS, nice as it is, has a hard time. I've seen a few Beemers hung up and on a single track......forget it. On road-BMW, Off-road-Honda, Based on experience and observation.
The dct is what makes a difference here. Unless one enjoys fumbling with that gear lever all the time, like a fretting geek, it's really not a hard choice. How many MT cars are in production nowadays, and it's mainly for the same reason. In first gen AT dct would tend to overrule the rider's choice and fall back into D mode simply for the sake of fuel economy, which was kinda irritating and usually resulted in switching to manual button shifts. But even then one could not wait long enough to return to the s-s3.
@@benkelly2190 Lol, the dct for those who run through gears, not walk . Cages have much more friendly gears stick, but even Formula 1 uses paddle shifters much like the dct control. Orthopedic, huh? :)
The current S modes are totally awesome and it's truly a fun experience to use DCT in Africa Twin. Amazing technology and huge respect to Honda for developing and tuning it for this model flawlessly. In cars I personally prefer automatic transmission and would never choose manual. When on a motorcycle, somehow I still prefer a manual setup. But hey, for those that don't - Honda offers the only alternative.
The all-rpm torque of the boxer, doesn't require you to fret much with the gear lever at all. It pulls everywhere. Off-road, or more relevantly off-PAVED-road, for longer stretches and with a heavy load, DCT does make sense for almost anyone. It's sweet technology for big adv bikes. As it is for city bikes (NC750X). The ATwin is just too darned big and clumsy in the city. But as an adventure bike where the adventure includes a good bit of off-pavement, it's one sweet ride: The geometry and suspension is that of a giant dirt bike. And DCT makes a lot of sense for that mission. As long as the priority is paved roads, even if with some off-pavement thrown in, it's GS all the way, though. The ATwin's dive-to-China-on-the-brakes and high side-at-5mph floppiness from it's offroad geometry steering, is just too annoying.
@@paulnorman8274 some valid points, but the AT (non ATAS) is more narrow and filters better through traffic, regarding the accel the Beemer has just more raw bhp and ccs minus shaft losses the advantage is quite marginal up to a 100 km/h. Mind that current dct versions do not feature clutch engagement options yet, where controlled by the IMU for example it could be put into position for a quick start, i.e. allowing higher rpm and more clutch slip assisted by the TC. How can a human rider, however good he may be with the MT, outperform such a robot is hard to imagine
BMW is unambiguously better on the road. The Africa Twin is unambiguously better off road and/or far away from mechanics. BMW is usually much easier to pick up. Honda is more reliable.
I guess it can be but my V-Strom 1000 proves that not always as opposed to my BMW R 1150 RT ;). At least 3 breakdowns of the V-Strom vs 0 of the BMW over a similar time frame and even more mileage on BMW. It seems that it may depend on a specific example.
And it really is huge in terms of height. Doesn't seems so on its own thanks to great proportions and big wheels but standing next to it, it's on one hand an exciting experience, and a bit scary on the other one.
This is not even a competition..even comparing the GS with the newest big bore adv bikes, it wins in certain aspects, if you compare with a bike of the lower segment it is and obvious win. The AT after de two multistradas is the most beautiful bike
Bikes are usually categorised based on their engine capacity and overall size. Africa Twin is right there with the others like this BMW, Suzuki V-Strom 1050, Multistrada V4 or KTM 1290. It's got less power and torque than R 1250 GS but R 1250 GS has nowhere near the power that the Ducati and KTM have and cannot even try to compete with them performance-wise yet we still put them right next to each other. Adding to that prices, Africa Twin Adventure Sports with similar equipment is still right there at least in my market. Really I wouldn't say that it's in a lower category with 800-900 motorcycles. Having the new Transalp 750 there only would confirm that in my opinion. Hope this sheds more light on the reasons of putting these two against each other.
The GS blows it away...suspension, control comfort and Off-Road capabilities with the low end torque - there is a reason why it's more expensive - it's superior. The DCT might be good on road...but Off-Raod its terrible. I liked the seating and the 21' off road...but that's about it in comparison. When people bring up cost - if all things were equal - the GS would be bought 90%+ of the time. - Again you get what you pay for....
I suspect that you never drove a dct bike. Is in off road that dct excel, your foot are free to move without the need to find the gear lever and you never risk the switch off of the motor. If you like more BMW it is fine but is obvious you don't know dct
You are biase, how do you say GS vibrates while riding then say it's more comfortable than AT? A vibrating bike can't be more comfortable. Also, fuel economy, AT wins
What’s the bias then? And what do vibrations have to do with comfort? Comfort to me is when nothing hurts me and I don’t get beaten up by all the bumps and potholes. Vibration at high RPM when accelerating doesn’t have much to do with that.
Honda afrika has one advantage over which bmw loses completely - it is DCT. All the other advantages of BMW do not go into any comparison. The mechanical box is the last century. Those who say that bmw is better than Honda have never driven a honda with DCT. In addition, the honda aftika is a versatile off-road enduro motorcycle, to the north, like the toyota land cruiser, it rides comfortably both in the city on asphalt and on full off-road. And bmw is a motorcycle for fat lazy burghers who drive only on asphalt and are afraid to go off-road. Bmw is an absolutely boring motorcycle. Honda is definitely better.
I love mine too, but the wind noise is killing me. I just dropped a bunch of money on a givi windscreen. It helps with the wind noise but now i have buffetting. Any insights? @xhioni
flip the Bmw and the Honda twice on their side and note the damage. that's the biggest difference. no damage on the BMW and more than 1000 usd on the Honda.
Let's be honest here, , BMW GS is too costly maintenance wise!!! AFRICA TWIN DCT??? Cheap parts and low cost on maintenance period!!! Honda will last forever!!! BMW?? Nyeh!!!😂
In greece if you have a bmw you need to put it inside your apartment if you want it to be there the next day 😂😂😂. I am greek as well. Gs is extremely popular in greece in a bad way every adventure dad has one and they treat it like a girlfriend ...
This proves to be challenging when both aren’t braking. Then the difference disappears. In terms of reliability, there’s owner’s impact on that. Same with maintenance costs. So I’m not entirely convinced that in this case it would matter as much.
I tested both and ordered the AT DCT ES. Picking it up in 2 weeks from posting this.
Agreed the BMW has more all out performance and I have been a fan of the boxer engine my while life but I prefer how the AT is tuned for low down torque to just chug along effortlessly with that low compression engine that you know will be reliable. Plus more fuel choices should you do a trip through areas in Asia and Africa where the only fuel you can get sometimes is from little bottles sold street side at about 81 octane. Perhaps it just suits my riding style better. I don't go for all out acceleration and don't like revving up my bike like a chainsaw.
Also totally a bias thing but I prefer the sound and looks of the AT.
Literally same for me. I ordered mine AT two weeks ago, I hope it arrives soon. BTW - did you bought "in stock" or ordered it? If ordered - how long it took to arrive?
Thanks a lot for sharing! I know that some riders from North America mention the fuel matter too. Yet here in Europe it's not the case at all as 95 octane petrol is a minimum, so it's easier if one just rides around like most do.
Africa is just better. Gs is typical overpriced overhyped shit
Europe, Japan, and Australia use a different method (RON) for measuring octane than North America ((R+M)/2).
It's a common misconception that euro fuel is higher octane.
Saying BMW has more all out performance is like saying BMW makes better cars then Toyota...😂😂😂
Adventure Sports DCT AT kills the GS on every aspect in my opinion. GS is nothing but overpriced piece of crap which needs more money to maintain then to buy it. At least here in Europe. Honda is at the top of the game.
I chose the Africa Twin AS DCT. Great bike.
In some markets the GS is almost 30-50% more expensive over the AT
I dont know about that they are pretty close in price . Yeah bmw is 3-5k more depending on the accesories but that makes it good value for money compared to the africa twin . Bmw is overpriced as a brand but in this situation the africa twin is the overpriced one which is very disappointing.
Would be good to take a deeper look at the local versions. Here it's similar comparing base versions but looking and the ones that actually are sold, so the top ones, the difference is close to none. But if they're comparably equipped and that's the difference in price, then the "price and value for money" may be different.
you have to take the Honda apart to do a valve adjustment. the GS is easy.
This guys the best on UA-cam love the points scoring he does
I’ve been deciding between an ATAS and a Triumph Tiger 1200. Each has its advantages and disadvantages but going with the Africa Twin. It’s been my dream bike for a long time and it just looks so damn sexy! Don’t like the look of the front beak that so many other ADV bikes have
Yup, the name and looks of Africa Twin are super appealing, I feel that too myself. All the best with your new Africa!
I had a 2023 Tiger GT Explorer. I put 2500 miles on it in 2 months and traded it for a GSA. The Tiger has a fantastic suspension ,brakes and comfort, however it sends so much vibration throught the pegs and bars I could not live with it. My dealer always has 1 or 2 2023 used Tigers for sale with low milage. Get the Honda
Sooner or later, all end up with Africa Twin....Due to reliability 😀
I've heard a different version of the ending of a sentence starting with "we will all end up on ..." ;)
I am owner of Atas 21' and can tell you that I am very dissapointed with comfort and buffeting.
Sooner or later everyone ends up on a GS.
The GSs (and all the Boxer with drive shaft and tele levers) are extremely reliable. No need to check the chain every once in a while like the Africa Twin. I have driven both and there’s no comparison. The dct is cool for long drives but on twisty roads you’d want a gear pedal.
@martinboskovic4143 All things that can be changed. No bike will fit every rider first time 😅.
the GS should only be compared with the multistrada because of the price
And KTM 1290 and Triumph Tiger 1200 and Harley-Davidson Pan America - and it is. Where I live though, Adventure Sports with electronic suspension costs just as much as those. Multistrada V4S on the other hand is also way more expensive than ALL of the mentioned ones, so it would be in a class of its own. And what to put Africa Twin next to then? BMW F 850 GS, V-Strom 800DE and Transalp 750? Nah...
@@VToldsMotoShow i'm not saying its ur fault or something, here in Italy a full spec GS is like 29.000€. And a closer comparison with the Africa Twin for me would be the v-strom 1050de*.
Comparison is always iffy... And never iffy. Here it's two flagship models (well, BMW almost).
He could have gone for the price-range, expensive v.s. cheap, whatever.
I liked this video, but also agree that a stacked BMW should maybe compare v.s. two bikes costing the same.
At the end of the day, we all do our own math.
Thanks for the vid.
The BMW S1000 XR is compared with the multistrada
It would be great to see this video redone using the 2024 version of both motorcycles (using the R1300 GS). Both had substantial changes. Cheers.
I've followed up on the GS in this video here: ua-cam.com/video/gS79frKXUDU/v-deo.html
@@VToldsMotoShow Thanks. I'll check it out.
That is a great idea as new 24 AT is modified to compete more realistically with GS. Still,, a strong nose dive on AT and old dash, as well as not as high spec suspension will still make it inferior to GS, but knowing that BMW now has automatic transmission goes to tell that both companies are learning from each other and working to get better. Honda is lowering suspension and putting 19" front wheel, and GS is getting automatic to match Honda's DCT. At the end, good for both companies and consumers.
The GS is an engineering study in it self. But later years the quality of BMW at least here in Europe has gone down the drain. Drive shaft issues , alternators giving up after to short time for such an expensive bike. And you have to split the gear box and engine to get to the alternator.........and then not to mention the cost of service and repairs........but as long as it runs, a fantastic bike. For such a prize it should last decades with ordinary appropriate service.🙂
Machines - that's the way they are. Sometimes may surprise us both ways in terms of reliability.
I’ve ridden both. But it really comes down to one thing - what would do with the bike? If you are planning on half off road + half onroad around the world - Go with Honda. If you are staying within the Western/Eastern part of the Europe, mostly on highways, then go with BMW.
I spent 4 years doing a rtw, belive me both are shit for that. Even the t700 is a bit big. Once beyond Europe you will never go more than 100km, and mostly 70km. Power is useless, wright is disaster.
@@domp51 I envy you! You are absolutely right about the weight. My RTW bike would be either DR650 or XR650L with bigger tank mods. (V-Strom 650 or KLR is also a good choice I think...if you are mostly sticking to highways).
I love my Africa Twin. Matte black 1100! A lot of good bikes out there! Ride on brothers!
I always wanted a gs and my son just bought me one, I couldn't believe it, I am 69 now and absolutely nothing is going to stop me , I live in Tasmania where every man and his bike go to for the excellent twisties over here. I am going to travel the outback on the mainland. Your review was very genuine, thanks.
Wow, I'd like to one day be like your son to my father. Thanks a lot for sharing as it's a nice story. Enjoy the bike and definitely, definitely stay safe on the road. Great bike you've got!
Haven't heard mention anything about reliability...Honda wins heads down BMW.
Impossible to judge that reliably without a separate organization conducting their research on hundreds or thousands of bikes. I'm definitely not that organization. Based on a general opinion, it's also not clear which bike has an image of a more reliable one. BMW GS is there in such huge numbers around the world, that there likely are many more singular instances of malfunctions or failures. Then we'd have to compare that to all of those bikes sold etc. Not a thing that's really possible to be judged on our own.
I've been driving the Africa DCT basic model (Not the Adventure sport) for the lasts 2 years and as usual you said it all, But there is a nuance that must be amplified-
If one is fancy a big adventure tourer he might find himself in a bit of a pickle- The medium size (Tenere, Desert X, Tiger 900 act) which are the real adventure bikes (they might actually taste a bit of gravel in their life time) simply not doing it to him and the top range of the adventures (KTM 1290, GS, Tiger 1200, Ducati V4 and so on) are way too expensive and heavy, for them there is only one solution- Africa twin base model (DCT or not)
Sure, you're giving up electric suspension, fuel tank capacity and quite a lot of power but damme- you get that real kick ass tall mean "I eat sh't from no one" bike and.. you're paying 40% less!
Actually- I can't think on none other that gives such package for that price.
Now for the Africa Adventure sport I simply can't understand- In case you're not in that "must have DCT" category why the hell one will pay almost the same coin for an Africa twin and not for one of the big daddy's that give you so much more (for 5-10% price increase?) This is a real mystery for me, I think that the base model should have been 80% of the Africa delivers and the other 20% are for the DCT top nudge es lovers only.
In short- I think that the Africa twin is misunderstood in our days & market options ,the "base" model simply doesn’t get the real respect he should get, Of course Honda is happy to be paid 30% more for basically the same bike but…
Very good point and I can only imagine that going for a fully specced Africa Twin that costs as much a fully equipped R 1250 GS, Triumph Tiger 1200 and KTMs is about buying yourself a very specific brand and name. Is it worth overall? It's too personal to assess I believe but at the same time it's the same with cars - Mercedes G-Class as an example or an old Land Rover Defender which had less than nothing yet it would cost quite a lot. Some are willing to pay for a name and once they do, they go all in. And I get it as it's about something else than "logical" value. And since not much is about logic with motorcycle purchases, then Adventure Sports units with electronic suspension come on top. Thanks a lot for sharing the thoughts!
Why would you give up power? Both versions have 102hp?
I ment give up power between the Africa and the more expensive higher catagory bikes. the Africa has around 100hp while the gs has 130 ducati 170 ktm 160 and so on. The point is that you pay 40% more for this upgraded power figuers and electric suspension and in my opinion for 80% of the users the Africa gives more then enough tech & power and you can save a lot of money @@zombeloffical
ATwin compression ratio 10:1
GS 12.5:1
Africa twin wins in 3rd world countries where low-quality fuels are present.
ATwin parts availability vs BMW and price per part. Backwater rides
ATwin wins.
Opposable piston? are shin bashers in corners and belong on aircraft not motorcycles.
Yeah, the fuel argument had been brought out and in such circumstances it clearly matters. Thanks for sharing!
I love the GSA and do think is better than the ATAS (i own the Honda) but DCT and cost is a winner all day for me. The GS may be better but not enough, the Honda is very good and trust me this power question is not an issue. go and test ride both. thanks for the video.
I'd buy the Africa Twin based on how it looks. It's just that cool.
It's also a totally valid thing to do. I take into account the sound and some don't care about it, so choosing based on how a vehicle looks can be understandable if you can live with some compromises in other places.
I've had both (ATAS 1000 DCT - 2018 and now a R1250GSA - 2019) ... Problem for me was the 21" front wheel ... I just don't like it. It also came with tube tyres, which limits my flat tyre solutions (and capabilities) on the side of the road. Also a chain, needs way more maintenance and cleaning than a shaft drive. Another difference is maintenance cost, surprisingly in favour of the big GSA. You will lose a lot of money at the dealer for working hours on the ATAS, due to all the different plastic parts that need to be removed to do some basic maintenance.
But I have to say: the sound of the ATAS is magnificent and I had a lot of fun with it. The stock exhaust on the BMW is just terrible. Looking for a nice street legal replacement now (only the damper, like BOS Desertfox f.e.)
I never wanted a BMW R1250 GSA, because every mountain pass is full of them. Now I have one myself, I totally understand al the other people ;-).
Thanks a lot for sharing your experiences with both models. I agree that being one of many isn't the coolest but on the other hand, we all tend to prefer a Mercedes over a Renault, so I get the point and it's hard to not agree ;)
I like Both the BMW and also the newer 2020 on Africa Twin. Considering the newer Africa Twin Adventure Sports with Electronic suspension adaptive cruise control and manual Gearbox (possibly supercharging from 2024)
Lots of people hate BMW because of maintenance and price. ?But there is a lot more to consider before you can make an assumption or comment on them.
"Too high of a price":
True for the regular "Joe" that doesn't have any skills in mechanics and trusts anyone else to do everything for them. Seems like you haven't been on one of those GSs, GTs or GTLs, or even any BMW motorcycle to know the difference (correct me if I'm wrong). The reason I say that is because some people say that the AT's DCT is better than the GS in all aspects (definitely not 100% true for anyone that knows the GS and the AT). Anyone I know that have tried any of the BMW Bikes have a different, or a change of opinion if they are not completely biased by a certain brand. AT is better off-roading though, no doubt in my mind. And the DCT is very nice also, which is a huge plus for me. I would have a DCT instead of any regular transmission on a bike at any time.
But guess what, that's as far as the AT is going to take you when you actually ride it side by side against the GS or GSA.
So DCT and Off-Roading goes to the AT in my opinion.
I am planning to buy me an AT because of the DCT; However, if I find a good price on a GS, I'm not putting my money on that AT since I would like to have a lot of the accessories that the GS already include for almost the same price at the end of the deal.
I love the looks of the AT over the GS at any time. But it is a lot of comfort and power to consider on the GS. It is a matter of what deal I can find when I pull the trigger to get my ADV bike.
If I was planning on doing a lot of off-roading, the AT would definitely be my choice. Reliability of Honda is a good thing going for the AT! But that is also a very relative topic that depends on who is doing the maintenance on the BMW (me in this case). I do my own maintenance so reliability is not an issue at all.
In my case I do everything on my bikes because I can't trust any mechanics, especially the ones BMW hires at their shops. They charge way too much $$$(that would be the expensive crap people talk about) and don't seem to do a very good job at it. I am in the US and the closest BMW shops I have are about 2.5 - 3 hours away, and the reviews are horrendous (price and mistakes made by "mechanics" or Techs, etc.).
I do all the maintenance for my GTL K1600 because of that.
Having owned both a ATAS ES DCT and a GSA, the Honda wins in fuel economy by almost 10 mpg. GSA is more nimble due to the smaller front wheel. Honda electronics win by a mile with car play and android auto.
Wow, this is useful and surprising at the same time. I'd expect GS (not sure about the Adventure though) to be more fuel efficient but clearly - it doesn't have to be that way necessarily.
I own an ATAS and a GS. I don’t understand. My GS gets better fuel mileage by far.
Also I agree with the entire video. The one thing that is heads and shoulders better about the Africa Twin is off-road. It is so much better than the GS off the pavement.
Africa twin 15000 with electronic suspension, gs1250 20k, 1300 starts from 19800 euro here in EU
The dct with the traction control is awesome.
Thanks for the review. Taking into consideration that motorcycle ownership and rider preferences are subjective, I may understand how the GS can outperform the 2023 ATAS on almost every front for a particular rider. However, I've owned and have ridden a number of adventure motorcycles and honestly, a 2022 GS 1250 with 20 000kms felt foreign (odd) to me. Even if the ATAS has much less top end HP & torque, what it does have is very usable and satisfying for me. Also, because it's a low stress engine, reliability is likely enhanced for the benefit of its owner. To that end, I'm hoping the 2024 ATAS variant will be even more competitive, because I plan to trade my current bike for one once they become available in Canada. :)
Currently selling my GS1250 after first test drive of AT. It destroys the BMW in multiple areas but mostly in handling off road / Dirt roads. BMW is all over the place while the AT is a dream with excellent handling.
Doesn’t it sound like tires?
But why would you want to take such a heavy machine off road?
@@VToldsMotoShow Possibly some contribution yes, but we are three GS guys with different tires (granted mostly 50/50) and all swopped bikes coming to same conclusions.... That said perhaps going more aggressive on tires could improve the situation.
@@beatsmarttie5777 A fair remark. In our case as part of the adventure weekend away thing we often travel pretty long distances tar to get to nice gravel roads so really don't want a small dirt bike for that. We dont do too much single track stuff, but still just on gravel roads with loose rocks and sand the difference in stability and handling of the AT is day and night better.
@@Jasperjvr2010 for some light off roading it is doable indeed!
Among your reviews I have watched, you have found the slow speed stability of the bike poor in all of the cases! Vstrom1050xt, Moto Guzzi v85tt, Ktm 1290s and finally Africa twin... interesting.
I'll direct you to the ones that are great at low speed stability in order: Triumph Tiger 1200 GT, Moto Guzzi V85TT (might be a confusion as it's great at low speeds, just a throttle control issue is a pain), Kawasaki Versys 1000, KTM 1290 Super Adventure R (not S!), and BMW R 1250 GS. The mentioned ones by you with an exception of Moto Guzzi I feel behave worse there indeed.
Because this review is biased against the Africa Twin. Don't believe on people who 'rode' a bike shorter than they vlogged it. Listen to people who actually owned them. Go for the 2024 africa twin. It's 19" wheelset now comes with tubeless tires ;)
Thank you for your honest opinion. Awesome video.
I agree with the importance of sound. I like to lock the bikes into gear around town so I can use the engine to speed up and slow for cars and lights. The automatic can prove fun I suppose in rare instances. It's not practical the way I ride to buy automatic.
Africa in one of the more aggressive S modes has a looooot of engine braking - the top mode has it even too much for my taste, almost like an electric vehicle in energy recovery mode. So this wouldn't be an issue, if I got your point correctly.
i dont get this comparison the bmw looks like its calibrated more for paved road and the africa for the dirt .if i had a picture only from the sits of this bikes i could tell you the use of them. a fair comparison would be also in the dirt . im not a Honda fanboy and i might be wrong but the bikes look too different .
I'm unable to compare them in an area that I myself as a user would never use them. I get the point but it's like with modern SUVs with AWD/4x4 drivetrains, offroad modes etc. which is all mostly for marketing and image purposes. I've got one of those myself too. Even with a rear diff lock. Used it once just for fun. So it's absolutely irrelevant for my use. The same applies here in the big ADV segment. They're both bad offroad anyway because of their weight and how huge they both are.
IMHO, Honda has built the best world travel Adventure bike, not just another Commuter bike. An important fact that ALL the comparisons seem to miss, maybe because they only test ride in big cities, is the compression ratio. Honda sacrificed HP/TQ numbers for the ability to run on sub-standard (non-premium) fuel. Have fun with the BMW GS and it's12.5:1 compression or the Ducati Multistrada with it's14.0:1 compression ratio in places in the world with non-premium fuels. The Honda Africa Twin with 10.1:1 can run on very sub-standard fuels. Couple this with Honda's world wide network for getting repairs, as compared with Any other competitor, and you have a true world traveler. I also believe in the future Honda will make the HP/TQ adjustment increase with a supercharger and retain the lower compression ratio.
I've rode both bikes. African twin is still the best!.
The African brother has a strong circle of enthusiasts.
In terms of looks no doubt the Africa Twin wins. It looks majestic. The GS to be frank is rather ugly. Always has been.
I tend to agree with this point of view myself.
Well discussed, but a few important aspects that most buyers consider were not included in the review - reliability, cost of maintenance and dealer network. BMW is always going to need more upkeep and will be costlier than Honda. AT will handle better off road, as it was derived from original Dakar bike. GS on the other hand is more touring oriented and has more bells and whistles. BMW as a brand caters to riders who want to say something with the brand they use, where Honda is no-nonsense practical and down to earth brand that is not so much concerned with fluff. Both great bikes, different in their own way and who they are intended to. For me personally, I would chose Honda any day over BMW for the fundamental reasons of reliability, quality and built for purpose. Good review.
It would be interesting to do another comparison now, with the new 19” front wheel 2024 version of the AT Adventure Sports. I’ve just sold my 2019 1250 GSA, and ordered the new AT SS DCT.
I am actually considering that but worry that it’s not a change significant enough to invest in trying it as an essentially the same bike.
@@VToldsMotoShow I think it will be worth it, the new front wheel and other changes have made significant changes to the handling. Also, you could use the 1300GS. I would certainly look forward to that review👍
Considering the price difference the bmw should win every time the better comparison should be cost of ownership over 150000 miles.
That can be done by BMW and Honda dealerships in our location as this will differ city to city, not to mention country to country. Comparing percentage-wise, I also think that it may not be relevant.
I sold my 2014 GSA for a DCT ATAS ES. I’m with you 100%. I kept the Honda for less than year and 2,000 miles for all the reasons you identified. I have a KTM 890 Adventure non-R which has put the fun back into riding for me.
Thanks a lot for sharing! And indeed different motorcycles = different styles. I'm going to get 890 Adventure in non-R version this coming Saturday for some time to test, so I'm super interested what I'm going to feel on it but it's definitely going to be something. All the best with yours!
@@VToldsMotoShow Great stuff! You’ll love it!
I have a low kms BMW GS for sale. Never been dropped. Never taken off road.
I rode a BMW 1250 GS a week ago, a disaster, after 5km I turned around and handed in the bike.
Throttle response is like a rubber, in dynamic mode, very bad. Brakes are really good (on the Africa Twin too). Wind protection is bad for my 185cm, regardless of whether the shield is up or down.
I will never buy a BMW GS
Sounds like it was quite dramatic indeed.
you don't need to replace the clutch on the AT on the dct version. Also AT is reputed to be more reliable.
what a sad reality we have come to. Prices of these bikes are eyewatering, so much tech. DCT on a motorbike? - get a scooter ffs (yes i tried one). So much tech it's scary to leave the local dealership's area code in case it goes wrong (yes.. it has gone wrong). Adv bikes are about simplicity, and none of the 2 is simple, bulletproof or super reliable. I do love the GS and i had a GSA, an excellent on road bike. I cant begin to even imagine taking a £20k motorbike and crashing it off road, and that's not the fully specced one.
Ah yes, these are the new era motorcycles. I cannot say that I don't enjoy some of the tech onboard as it can maki riding safer, more pleasant and fun, but looking for simplicity, yeah, it's not the right time or place. The same goes for cars with not many - if any for that matter - exceptions.
@@VToldsMotoShow i agree. Problem is all this tech has the potential to get you stranded, potentially turning one’s “adventure “ into a nightmare. I can understand all this tech on a street bike around your local dealership, (KTM/Aprilia have a deficit of those) and the biggest problem is the owner cant do anything about it on their own without plugging it into a computer.
Less is more.
Honda Afrika Twin 👍👍👍
loads of very useful information, but is it really ...? If I am not mistaken, all these very important things you mentioned are waying towards GS if used on the paved roads. I am really wondering if these advantages matter at all if you take the bikes where they really belong ...
The question would then be where they do belong. And right, they are indeed used and scored based on how they ride on paved roads.
Reliability?
Honda wins!!
Hard to tell as it's hard to measure and some organization would have to conduct a wide research on that for us to be able to refer to it. There may be issues with the GS and Africa - as always, depends on a specific unit.
Doposażyłem swoją Afrykę w quickshifter i nie żałuję. Przebijanie biegów w górę przy mocniejszym odkręceniu manetki i towarzyszący temu strzał jest uzależniający :) Pozdro!
Honda i Yamaha pozostały już chyba ostatnie na polu bitwy o fajny dźwięk silników motocyklowych ;). Lewa w górę!
Very good comparison video. I wonder how capable the non adv GS is off road with decent off road tires ?? I am really torn between the bikes. Im a honda guy but the low center of gravity in GS may be the determining factor for me as im a below avg weight rider and may not be able to risk going off road and not being able to pick up the bike. I like the non adv version of the AT because it has more of a dirt bike look. For some reason and fully loaded africa twin Adv spt looks too busy… as if it is a off road baby goldwing. The base model looks much cleaner and more sporty. If im not going for rock climbing on a bike then i hope the base GS will do just fine with decent offroad tires
A base GS can have some advantages over an Adventure. The first being psychological as Adventure is so wide in its tank area that I start feeling intimidated by it myself. It's also taller and so easier to drop. It's just that ground clearance of a standard R1250GS is not impressive at just 18,5 cm which really isn't that much. On the other hand you'd have to know what terrain you expect to be riding on. If it's rocks, then this may have its disadvantages, but if other non-ground-clearance-related places, then I personally would prefer the regular GS over an Adventure. Less weight also helps.
I've owned both. I still own the ATES. People buy the BMW for touring, it's good, but if you're really not going to ADV then just buy a true touring bike. I never had any issues with my Honda, a boat load with the BMW.
I'm glad to hear that you've found the right solution. Touring motorcycles are short, usually force you to lean and support yourself on your wrists, don't do well at low speeds and in the cities. Even large adventure motorcycles tick all the boxes here. Just like SUV car which nowadays likely more than 99% of owners bought not to travel through Africa or Asia to the other side of these continents. They've got certain advantages that no other segment offers.
In the end we as consumers are the beneficial winners of the ADV wars as manufacturers are forced to stay competitive and innovate.
I seriously start to think that I should have bought Fat Bob instead of R1250GSA >_> Wrong choices were made...
Why you prefer the africa twin?
Great street specific review and comparison. But I feel like it’s silly to judge adv bikes without looking at their off-road performance. I.e. the title of this video should be “Which adv bike is better commuter”
It might be but to me personally this is all that matters and I'm confirming it to myself after following some of such requests and now taking the mid-size ADV motorcycles for a spin also in light offroad and it's definitely not where they should be ridden. None of them. If tomorrow Ducati DesertX won't surprise me, then after having ridden them all, I'll be able to confirm that these are no enduros. Including a Tenere 700 and even a Tuareg 660 that's the closest so far but so stiff that barely stays on its wheels when riding faster over a rough trail.
And offroad capability?
Those aren’t dirt bikes. Not recommended.
How do you put up with the shaft drive of R1250?
What kind of question is this? You don’t even notice it. It’s perfect. “Put up with” is a super odd comment.
AF looks just right, the GS looks like most bikes today very similar to a stinging hornet. Not my style. I go for easy cruising and not for acceleration and some low but solid RPM that sound good and not loud like a bulldozer or a Harley. Not much out there what can be a winner ...
Here in Arkansas we have these rocky trails that a GS, nice as it is, has a hard time. I've seen a few Beemers hung up and on a single track......forget it. On road-BMW, Off-road-Honda, Based on experience and observation.
What about a KTM 1290 Super Adventure R for such places?
The dct is what makes a difference here. Unless one enjoys fumbling with that gear lever all the time, like a fretting geek, it's really not a hard choice. How many MT cars are in production nowadays, and it's mainly for the same reason. In first gen AT dct would tend to overrule the rider's choice and fall back into D mode simply for the sake of fuel economy, which was kinda irritating and usually resulted in switching to manual button shifts. But even then one could not wait long enough to return to the s-s3.
Dct! Orthopaedic shoes..for those who can’t walk properly.
@@benkelly2190 Lol, the dct for those who run through gears, not walk . Cages have much more friendly gears stick, but even Formula 1 uses paddle shifters much like the dct control. Orthopedic, huh? :)
The current S modes are totally awesome and it's truly a fun experience to use DCT in Africa Twin. Amazing technology and huge respect to Honda for developing and tuning it for this model flawlessly. In cars I personally prefer automatic transmission and would never choose manual. When on a motorcycle, somehow I still prefer a manual setup. But hey, for those that don't - Honda offers the only alternative.
The all-rpm torque of the boxer, doesn't require you to fret much with the gear lever at all. It pulls everywhere.
Off-road, or more relevantly off-PAVED-road, for longer stretches and with a heavy load, DCT does make sense for almost anyone. It's sweet technology for big adv bikes. As it is for city bikes (NC750X). The ATwin is just too darned big and clumsy in the city. But as an adventure bike where the adventure includes a good bit of off-pavement, it's one sweet ride: The geometry and suspension is that of a giant dirt bike. And DCT makes a lot of sense for that mission.
As long as the priority is paved roads, even if with some off-pavement thrown in, it's GS all the way, though. The ATwin's dive-to-China-on-the-brakes and high side-at-5mph floppiness from it's offroad geometry steering, is just too annoying.
@@paulnorman8274 some valid points, but the AT (non ATAS) is more narrow and filters better through traffic, regarding the accel the Beemer has just more raw bhp and ccs minus shaft losses the advantage is quite marginal up to a 100 km/h. Mind that current dct versions do not feature clutch engagement options yet, where controlled by the IMU for example it could be put into position for a quick start, i.e. allowing higher rpm and more clutch slip assisted by the TC. How can a human rider, however good he may be with the MT, outperform such a robot is hard to imagine
BMW is unambiguously better on the road.
The Africa Twin is unambiguously better off road and/or far away from mechanics.
BMW is usually much easier to pick up.
Honda is more reliable.
Japanese reliability it's unbeatable !!
I guess it can be but my V-Strom 1000 proves that not always as opposed to my BMW R 1150 RT ;). At least 3 breakdowns of the V-Strom vs 0 of the BMW over a similar time frame and even more mileage on BMW. It seems that it may depend on a specific example.
@@VToldsMotoShow I thanks for feedback. I narrow the Japanese: Honda/Yamaha.
You look really tall that Africa twin still looks really high.
And it really is huge in terms of height. Doesn't seems so on its own thanks to great proportions and big wheels but standing next to it, it's on one hand an exciting experience, and a bit scary on the other one.
@@VToldsMotoShow I've sat on one. It's similar in height to a ktm 690 enduro R but being a lot heavier it's less confidence inspiring.
Gs all the way in every way I’ve rode both twins manual an dct an it don’t come close 👍
This is not even a competition..even comparing the GS with the newest big bore adv bikes, it wins in certain aspects, if you compare with a bike of the lower segment it is and obvious win. The AT after de two multistradas is the most beautiful bike
Bikes are usually categorised based on their engine capacity and overall size. Africa Twin is right there with the others like this BMW, Suzuki V-Strom 1050, Multistrada V4 or KTM 1290. It's got less power and torque than R 1250 GS but R 1250 GS has nowhere near the power that the Ducati and KTM have and cannot even try to compete with them performance-wise yet we still put them right next to each other. Adding to that prices, Africa Twin Adventure Sports with similar equipment is still right there at least in my market. Really I wouldn't say that it's in a lower category with 800-900 motorcycles. Having the new Transalp 750 there only would confirm that in my opinion. Hope this sheds more light on the reasons of putting these two against each other.
The GS blows it away...suspension, control comfort and Off-Road capabilities with the low end torque - there is a reason why it's more expensive - it's superior. The DCT might be good on road...but Off-Raod its terrible. I liked the seating and the 21' off road...but that's about it in comparison. When people bring up cost - if all things were equal - the GS would be bought 90%+ of the time. - Again you get what you pay for....
Let's remember that Africa can be bought without the DCT. But then to me it loses one of its key functions.
I suspect that you never drove a dct bike. Is in off road that dct excel, your foot are free to move without the need to find the gear lever and you never risk the switch off of the motor. If you like more BMW it is fine but is obvious you don't know dct
You are biase, how do you say GS vibrates while riding then say it's more comfortable than AT? A vibrating bike can't be more comfortable. Also, fuel economy, AT wins
What’s the bias then? And what do vibrations have to do with comfort? Comfort to me is when nothing hurts me and I don’t get beaten up by all the bumps and potholes. Vibration at high RPM when accelerating doesn’t have much to do with that.
Honda afrika has one advantage over which bmw loses completely - it is DCT. All the other advantages of BMW do not go into any comparison. The mechanical box is the last century. Those who say that bmw is better than Honda have never driven a honda with DCT. In addition, the honda aftika is a versatile off-road enduro motorcycle, to the north, like the toyota land cruiser, it rides comfortably both in the city on asphalt and on full off-road. And bmw is a motorcycle for fat lazy burghers who drive only on asphalt and are afraid to go off-road. Bmw is an absolutely boring motorcycle. Honda is definitely better.
I have the DCT. Best bike on the planet. Fullstop.
Thanks for your useless opinion
Totally agree. I have an NC750X DCT and have ridden the AT DCT. BMW pricing and service costs are a rip off. Honda and DCT forever.!
I will buy afrika twin but manual
I love mine too, but the wind noise is killing me. I just dropped a bunch of money on a givi windscreen. It helps with the wind noise but now i have buffetting. Any insights? @xhioni
Soon as you go shaft drive you will never want to go back.
flip the Bmw and the Honda twice on their side and note the damage. that's the biggest difference. no damage on the BMW and more than 1000 usd on the Honda.
If that's so, then thanks for mentioning that. I would still do al I can to avoid such stories.
Let's be honest here,
,
BMW GS is too costly maintenance wise!!!
AFRICA TWIN DCT??? Cheap parts and low cost on maintenance period!!!
Honda will last forever!!! BMW?? Nyeh!!!😂
Bmw hands down
No brainer. Made in germany🦾
BMW feels… wow… to ride
I agree.
AT DCT for me
You seemed extremely biased even though im a BMW person. Seems like you already had made your mind before purchasing the bike.
I’m not biased - why would I be? I do prefer BMW in most areas and that’s what the comparison is about.
Can't compare bmw n Honda, bmw should have compare with KTM or Ducati
Such comparisons are coming too.
ATAS is a Honda Sold
Sound? AT puts GS to shame off road…
Why would it aside from huge ground clearance advantage?
A lot of people is selling the GS for buy the Africa Twin but... the GS is better, stranger things haha
A lot of people are likely selling GS and buying Africas but lots likely sell Africas and buy BMWs. It's always both ways up to some point.
I sold my AT for a GS for all the above reasons. It is what it is...some people do it the other way around. Depends on your needs @ the time.
"Built from pieces of junk in a junkyard" :) haha
And it all being a compliment ;)
309 likers from algeria . 👌😍
u should go offroad
I went with a previous R 1200 GS. Never again with this kind of weight and risk to the wallet.
Bmw maintenance will ripp you off therefore honda is a winner
If that's the main thing that one looks for in a motorcycle and whether it's really the way you put it, then perhaps yes.
Como se nota que te paga bmw😂
in Greece 21k euro for africa twin dct adv sports , for the bmw 24.900 . Bmw all the way , better in every fcking aspect
In greece if you have a bmw you need to put it inside your apartment if you want it to be there the next day 😂😂😂. I am greek as well. Gs is extremely popular in greece in a bad way every adventure dad has one and they treat it like a girlfriend ...
Now that's true nationwide love for a GS out there ;)
I can't decide which one is the ugliest
So it's gotta be Harley then - just to end peacefully.
BMW is much better bike
To travel with a pillion all over europe, tarmac only, r1250gs or versys 1000?
I myself avoid riding with a pillion but 10/10 times I'd choose R1250GS for that.
Bmw servise and parts very expensive side ,honda service and parts cost are normal ❤
The biggest difference is reliability. I had a bmw, total beast but always problems, it's funny bmw convinced people it's a rtw bike! It's not.
This proves to be challenging when both aren’t braking. Then the difference disappears. In terms of reliability, there’s owner’s impact on that. Same with maintenance costs. So I’m not entirely convinced that in this case it would matter as much.