An unrepeatable legal defense
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- Simone Giertz, Cleo Abram and 'Legal Eagle' Devin Stone discuss a question about an unwise way to help your client.
LATERAL is a weekly podcast about interesting questions and even more interesting answers, hosted by Tom Scott. For business enquiries, contestant appearances or question submissions, visit www.lateralcas...
GUESTS:
Simone Giertz: @simonegiertz / simonegiertz
Cleo Abram: @CleoAbram / cleoabram
Devin Stone: @LegalEagle / legaleagle
HOST: Tom Scott.
QUESTION PRODUCER: David Bodycombe.
EDITED BY: The Podcast Studios, Dublin.
EDITOR: Julie Hassett.
GRAPHICS SYSTEM & DESIGN: Chris Hanel at Support Class.
GRAPHICS ASSISTANCE: Dillon Pentz.
MUSIC: Karl-Ola Kjellholm ('Private Detective'/'Agrumes', courtesy of epidemicsound.com).
FORMAT: Pad 26 Limited/Labyrinth Games Ltd.
EXECUTIVE PRODUCERS: David Bodycombe and Tom Scott.
© Pad 26 Limited (www.pad26.com) / Labyrinth Games Ltd. 2023.
My favorite wrong answer was Tom's "the lawyer shot the judge! And by some weird loophole in American law...". Thanks for having us, this was such a fun conversation.
And just how close it was lmao...
#notlegaladvice
"The defendant, *after several retrials* was acquitted..." How many lawyers shot themselves in the prosecution of this case?
Well that lawyer went above and beyond... Sheesh.
I enjoy how the panel couldnt reach the correct answer quickly because it was so stupid that it didn't occur to anyone.
and they got so freaking close that Devin almost layed out the answer
when Simone says the gun went off by itself
its so close and yet not quite
When my dad was a young teen, my grandfather tasked him with sweeping the back porch. Grandfather went on an errand, leaving my dad unsupervised for a couple minutes.
My dad got bored and started goofing around, swinging the broom like a baseball bat. On one of the swings, the head of the broom flew off the handle and hit a kitchen window, shattering it. My dad knew he was going to be in trouble, but he did his best to clean up all of the glass. He also cut out a piece of cardboard to cover the hole.
When Grandpa came back, he asked what happened. My dad explained, "Well, I was swinging the broom like this..." The head of the boom flew off again, crashing through the other kitchen window.
My grandfather looked at the two windows for a moment, then calmly said, "Yeah, I can see how that could happen."
I mean he knew full well he walked into that one
idk why, but your grandpa gives me big Red Forman vibes
😂😂😂
My grandpa had a very similar story related to ww2 about a soldier complaining about short fuzes in the grenades and the officer who does not believe pulls the pin and the grenade explodes in his hand, don't remember the details exactly or if its anedotical tho, he was in the Italian army if anyone knows that.
General Motors 30 or more years ago. A millwright was demonstrating with his remaining good arm to the safety team and higher up supervision as to how he broke his arm in a conveyor. In front of everyone, before anyone could react, he reached into a running conveyor and accidentally tripped the same limit switch he had tripped before and, broke his other arm. A shocking but predictable development.
The ultimate defense
"Your honor, my client couldn't possibly have shot the victim. Because I did it!"
Von Karma, no!
@@cat1554 LMFAO, YOU SEE EDGEWORTH, IT IS I, VONSHOOTMASELF
I worked with a guy, as a pistol dueling reenactor and educational presenter at a presidential home, whose ancestor was in a duel where nearly the exact thing Simone says at 1:57 happened. His ancestor shot the man, who walked with difficulty and a cane due to arthritis in his knee. He was supposedly shot in the leg, made a full recovery, and supposedly was able to walk better off the dueling field than he walked on to it.
Supposedly, he said something along the lines of "You make a fine surgeon, but a damn rough operator!"
bonus fact. Apparently, not long after, someone else was telling this story and demonstrating how the lawyer had shot himself. Yes, they successfully shot themselves as well.
omg you're kidding me
Looks like a curse or something.
This is starting to feel a lot like TomSka's "What Happened"
in america, the saying isn't shooting oneself in the foot, it is shooting oneself in the stomach.
Didn't any of them come to the conclusion it would be enough to use an unloaded gun, or load only the propellent?
There's nothing more frustrating than knowing the answer to a question and watching others not picking up on what seems to be the most obvious of clues - full well knowing that I'd be as clueless if I hadn't know the answer beforehand. :)
i knew the answer bc i watched the legaleagle video about it
@@tamhuy10 Me too.
@@tamhuy10 like halfway in I realised I knew the story from his video
@@leonmayne797 Me three
Tom got so close it seemed that one time though
This was on QI at some point so I recognised it immediately. If I'd had to guess I would have thought Tom knew this one. It seems like one he'd have come across.
This was on Legal Eagle at one point so I recognised it immediately.
@@franzfanz Yer I think that’s where I remember it from 👍🏻
@@franzfanz The Algorithm says you're correct, because this is their top suggestion for my next video.
He probably did vaguely remember it like he said
Tom Scott had never heard of the Hagia Sofia before the Technical Difficulties told him about it, so I’m not surprised he hadn’t heard about it.
Simone Giertz and LegalEagle is a goddamn dreamteam level combo
After this I kind of want to see Simone build a robot that can shoot itself.
@@nacoran “Shooty Robots”
I think Simone is too smart to try this one.
Yes, please. Devin telling us about weird cases and Simone making replicas to test out the facts of the cases!
I agree, I saw the thumbnail and thought "that looks like Simone and Legal Eagle what is going on?" Most awesome crossover ever!
As soon as he said "The defense argued that the victim shot himself" I remembered the exact case this was
I appreciate that Devin got in his suit and set for this episode, especially since it meant having to sit in his usual video monologuing posture for the entire of the recording, since I presume they don't plan which question gets turned into a video. (I still find this audio-then-video-clips format super weird but I guess it probably keeps production cost down so whatever)
Nahh Devin sleeps like that. Its his resting position
@@TrueHolarctic he even bathes like that
@@tamhuy10😂
That lawyer went above and beyond for his client!
Quite literally :D
And then 6 feet below.
As soon as he mentioned demonstration in the court I remembered hearing this story... quite a defense
it's quite fool's proof... lateral-ly
As somebody who remembers the correct answer from a previous Legal Eagle video, oh boy this was fun to watch them piece it together 😂
According to Wikipedia, the incident did not happen in court, but in a hotel room while the lawyer and his colleagues were testing the theory.
Devin did say there are mixed accounts about where precisely the demonstration happened
@@CPFitzgerald Yes, this story was told so many times that it's hard to know what happened exactly. They do agree about the main details though.
It would sure be nice if we could watch a video of this whole episode
legal eagle did a video on this, and i watched it! glad i still remembered that story, yeah, quite the unique defense that worked.
That's a dedicated lawyer, willing to take one for his client
My own guess on hearing the question: the 'known tough guy' victim was a _circus_ tough guy, the kind who would take a punch to the stomach without injury as part of their act. The defendant asked if he could deflect a bullet, the victim said he could, and the defendant shot him with permission. The defendant got off because both he and the victim sincerely thought the act was safe, and the defense it would 'only work once' because it was now public record that it wouldn't work.
Feels like there was no chance for them to figure this out just from the initial prompt - it took a lot of handholding. But still an interesting story!
Yeah, most of the questions on the show are like that. It's sorta the whole premise.
Then look at something like the recent question "why does this reality TV show use opaque cups?" where a contestant guesses the answer immediately and you can see how boring that makes the segment.
@@spikehammer3112 i think there's a middle ground on the best questions of the show, takes a while to get there but they can do so purely on lateral thinking alone
I figured it out but only because I had heard the story before. That said I never knew the names of them, so that was no clue for me.
i like that the captions are color-coded for different people
Devin made a video about this
This is *VERY* close to a game that was popular in the early part of the 20th century, that we usually called "Conundrums". In THAT game, the answerer can only answer "yes", "no, "unanaswerable" or "irrelevant." Perhaps you are using this as a guide. I think you are VERY wise to keep this a reasonable length video by be more forgiving with your answers.
The sad thing is that I knew the answer - mostly because I had seen you cover this incident in one of your other videos.
I loved "Conundrums". I only wish that I hadn't known the answer, as I wanted to be guessing along with your guests!
Great fun!
When you hear a question like that and, like me, think "Surely everyone knows this story!" you know you need to reassess parts of your life.
I've seen Devin tell this story on his channel before so knew what it was immediately. It was frustrating yet hilarious hearing them guess every other possible combination of people getting shot before finally getting there.
I was so worried that this was just going to be a terrible question... But this was absolutely worth it 😅
So I was one of the leaders in this nature camp, and a boy came to me with a cut in his hand. Stupidly enough, I asked how did this happen, and before I could stop him, he demonstrated. Luckily, the two cuts were really small and healed easily...
The operation was successful but the doctor died😂
so as interesting this story is it also is a good opportunity to talk about firearm safety
rule #!: always treat your firearm as if it is loaded.
rule #2: never point it at something you are not willing to destroy
rule #3: never have your finger on the trigger unless you are ready to fire
rule #4: know your target and what behind it
valandingham broke 3 rules:
he didn't treat his weapon as if it was loaded
he did point it at something he wasn't willing to destroy, his stomach
and he had his finger on the trigger while not being ready to fire the gun.
now if he didn't have his finger on the trigger, the gun wouldn't have gone off
if he hadn't point it at himself, he wouldn't have died
and if he had treated it as loaded he would have checked the gun beforehand to make sure it was safe to use.
as you can see you need to break multiple rules of fire arm safety before an accident can happen. always treat your firearms with respect, use best safety practices and train often.
this is some Barney Fife level hijinks. only, you know, with actual consequences. RIP.
wait wasn't this one of the articles that got pulled on "Citation Needed"?
or maybe "only 2 peoples are lying"? it was one of the Tech diff episode on Matt & Tom channel
Those old-timey Colts with the hair trigger, are single action with a half-cock safety.
After a round is fired, the hammer's pin is resting on the spent cartage. Pulling the trigger again, does nothing. If the pistol is dropped and it lands on the hammer, it does nothing but damage the pin. This was the state of the gun, at the time it was removed from the the first victims body.
Pulling back the hammer until you feel and hear the first click is, half-cock safety. The cylinder will not have moved and the hammer will be over the same spent shell. Pulling the trigger, does nothing. If the pistol is dropped and it lands on the hammer, it does nothing. The firing pin is not damaged in any way. This is the state you keep the Colt in for storage or holstering.
Pulling back to full-cock will rotate the next round in the cylinder, under the hammer and you will feel and hear a click. The hair trigger is active. The gun will fire If anything is touching the trigger at the time of the hammers release. This was the state of the lawyers pistol in his pocket before he pulled it out. I'm amazed he got it in his pocket without it going off.
He pulled a fully cocked and loaded Colt out of his pocket by its trigger.
Edit: How to Clint Eastwood (fan) your Colt pistol.
Put the hammer at half-cock and load the pistol. Point the barrel of the gun at your target from your hip with your trigger hand. While holding the trigger down, use the palm of your other hand to snap back the hammer back as fast as you can. Use gloves and expect to miss by 6ft at 25ft.
Devin Stone, Esq. : No one will ever try this defense again.
Me, wearing a bullet-resistant vest: Hold my beer.
(Just kidding, that's way too dangerous to try, even with proper PPE)
I like to think that where Tom wears red shirts all the time, Devin sits fully suited in front of a green screen even when he's not being filmed.
It isn't a greenscreen. The lamp is green.
thank you, tom scott, for captioning all of your videos, you are a hero for this
These people don't watch enough LegalEagle ;) I got this one because I remembered Devin talking about it
I usually like the questions on lateral but to me it feels inappropriate to have that horrible story as part of a game that is supposed to be fun
"Your honor, the defense rests in peace"
'Your honor, I'll prove my case if it costs me my life!'
My dad told me this story when I was a kid.
3:03 I know the case. That poor guy
I desperately wish to visit Tom's recording studio with some wire ties. Love this podcast, though.
At just past 2:00 I remembered this story. Lawyer demonstrated, with a loaded gun, how it could have gone off accidentally...by lettting it go of accidentally an killing himself. I'll just stop watching now and assume that's wehre this is going.
As soon as I heard the names of the lawyer and the defendant I shouted, "I know this one!" Fortunately, because I work alone, I didn't startle anyone.
Had to watch this just to see what Devin watches when not on his show... exactly the same !
I wonder whether the demonstration that Tom was remembering one of the scenes from the 2007 movie "Shooter."
Um.. I'm surprised and a bit disappointed that Simone didnt blame it on a shitty robot.
Watching this is like watching your fav superheroes from different cartoons mash up in a special episode 🎉
I remember this cause it was on horrible histories stupid deaths during series 2
Same
I recognize it from a LegalEagle video!
I'm pretty sure that type of legal service isnt billed at the standard rate.
for once i knew of this story
I want a lawyer that would give his life for a client.
What the hell did I just stumble across with both Tom Scott and LegalEagle?
Tom's podcast.
Legal Eagle plays Tom Scott to Tom's Tech Difficulties, good one :)
Got this one almost instantly! It was on Horrible Histories a while ago, and has always stuck with me for some reason
"Your Honor, the victim could have shot himself!"
"Why would he do that?"
"It could have been an accident!"
"Who would be careless enough to---?"
"CHALLENGE ACCEPTED -- someone find my client a new lawyer, please..."
Oh i know this story!
So people used to carry loaded guns to courtrooms back then. I do wonder if you can still do that in the US. Probably 🤷♂️
You literally got my three crushes on a podcast bless
The strongest defense a lawyer can do
My UA-cam Venn Diagrams crossing again! Tom, how could you confuse my brain like this, I couldn't work out for the first 5 seconds whose channel I was on!!
Oh yeah I remember this one. Guy says the victim was the victim of the gun going off accidentally and killing him. The lawyer demonstrates this by loading the gun and pulling the trigger, and the gun kills the lawyer doing the demonstration, proving his point.
Lawyers aren't all bad though, its just 95% of them giving the rest a bad reputation.
I would have thought that Devin, as a lawyer, whose success depends on eloquence, would have known there is no such thing as "most unique"...
Aw, dang, I wish it was live-chat. I guessed the first one would be the one where the lawyer accidentally shot himself. But I can't actually make that guess real-time.
The “well known tough guy” part really threw me off. I thought that they were arguing that the victim had claimed he could be shot and would be fine but even though that’s incredibly stupid to argue in court I can’t imagine it’s been used only once
I actually knew that.....From watching Devins videos.
It doesn't speak well of American gun culture when Tom Scott thought there might be "some weird loophole in American law" that would set a defendant free if his lawyer shot the judge.
I am always a huge fan of Lateral! Keep up the good work!
Obviously Tom, Simone and Cleo don't watch Legal Eagles, Devin did a video on this.
The defendant was shot to death 4 years later, and the lawyer was except for the prior few years a strong supporter of slavery. Interesting Wikipedia article.
Devin confusing the hell out of Tom and friends is all the UA-camr intersection joy I needed today, thank you.
Now I know all about the Second Amendment! Thanks Devin, I can't wait to test it out! (joke)
I guess these guys didn't bother to watch LegalEagle's video on this very question from a year ago.
I thought it would be something dumb like the victim pulled the barrelt of the gun towards himself and as a result the trigger was pressed. Nope, way dumber than that lmao
Oh I know this one. The defense lawyer shot himself demonstrating am accidental suicide right?
Devin phrased that so lawyerly that half of his question felt like a red herring.
"A colt revolver sorta thing with a hair trigger"
A yes a Single action revolver is well know for having a light trigger pull...
Less than two weeks later, the Rust:Baldwin/Gutierrez-Reed shooting is back in the news.
... if Chewbacca lives on Endore, you must acquit.
I was jut thrown by seeing Devin on a Tom Scott video and didn’t listen to the question initially.
3 stars. Pretty good, but not as good as a Bill McClintock mash-up.
I remember this story… the attorney shot himself while showing how it “would” have happened
Another case of butterfingers Irving gunned himself down.
he didn't shoot himself in the courtroom though, he was discussing the defense with his fellow attorneys in the Lebanon House hotel and shot himself there in his hotel room
One of those times where a shows musical outros seems really inappropriate
🎵The lawyer parished a few days later 🎶
They weren't subscribed to Devin otherwise they would have known the story from one of his videos
The lawyer was gutted he couldn't see his client acquitted. He could stomach it no longer to see his client accused.
The lawyer shot himself duh lol to show that the gun was firing backward.
I think DJ has actually talked about that very case on a previous legaleagle video lol
He did. I watched it (a year or more ago, IIRC).
I can remember hearing about this but I don't remember what happened
Similar idea to how Lindsay Ontario supposedly got its name.
I’m not sure if I’ve just heard this before or something but it seemed obvious to me after about 3 minutes.
4:44 "Your honour, my client is innocent, because I shot the victim"
This sounded for a bit like it was Alec Baldwin-y.
Am I the only 1 that thinks that Abram looks like Kiera Knightley?
Here I was thinking tom left youtube