"there is no place to put the missing piece" to paraphrase you badly .... I still remember the first time I heard you say that and how it hit me physically. You can't just plug in what they are "missing" because to them, nothing is "missing." This is how it is and the vessel is closed with no empty "slot" to put an understanding that other people exist. Thank you for all your amazing work.
You're welcome and yes! Exactly. The machine works without those parts and has been doing so for decades. You cannot now add them in. There's nowhere for them to go.
They are missing a component which is called empathy... But they can't be cured for that and to survive they need our empathy and energy to survive. When we understand that they only mirrorong our behavior (and sometimes our empathy and love) to survive they turned it and threat us badly with ghosting us, gaslight and abuse us to feel A live and powerful. They are like vampires and sucks out our energy to be "normal" officially ... and also present us like we are crazy and evil. So they get empathy from others and present them self as an victim 😒 but in the fact WE are the victims.
This helps to explain why they are so miserable. In the many years of my intimate relationship, I was lucky to have two consecutive weeks of peace without significant conflict.
I discovered several weeks ago what I was dealing with, what was driving me crazy, and what was so toxic about her and her adult son; they are both Narcissists. At first I felt an instant sense of relief as if the sun had come out and I could breathe again. Then I learned to deal with the constant, incessant, and automatic INVALIDATION they dished out by remaining INDIFFERENT. I shut up responding. I taught myself to not INTERNALIZE one bit of their nonsense. Finally, without the back and fourths, the heated discussions, arguments, meltdowns, I just listened to them express their deepest, darkest feelings without interruption on my part. OMG They hate everyone. Everyone is a villain. They don't get the respect they deserve. No amount of money is enough. They demand worship, praise, anything less is disrespect. They don't want to feel good, they want to be angry, mad, sad, hateful. It is their norm. Listening to them express is so intensely painful, I have to leave the room, sometimes the house. I find myself defending normal people, stopping these narcs from telling people what they really think. They say, "if I can't get the respect I deserve, I rather lose everything and go broke." Everything means, the business I built, the upper middle life I carved out. Throw it all away because they are so intensely angry all the time. It's so ugly.
In other words, because the narcissist thinks that what they're doing is normal when they go to therapy Or a doctor they just continue to use their manipulative tactics on THEM .... That's if they even go to therapy at all
“There’s no place to put them.” That’s brilliantly said. And exactly why Jesus said “You must be born again.” He is able to install constructs which didn’t previously exist. It’s just so rare to run into these people.
Remember that therapists are just people, they're not magic, the relationship helps heal wounds but someone has to work the process to get better and narcissists don't generally do this. Often going to therapy can be a smoke screen, The narcissist uses this as an excuse to say they are a good person, but will rationalize not doing the homework or using communication skills.
Thanks for sharing that, Lincoln. I'd say the relationship between the therapist and narcissist helps to *expose* wounds but it doesn't heal them unless they are willing to go through that long and painful process of "re-exposure, regulation and rebuilding". Life is not the therapist's office and when a "healing narcissist" runs into outside stressors again they will have to learn, as all mature people do, how to construct patience, wisdom, compassion, resilience and humility to weather the pressures, rejections and disappointments of life. I didn't plan on saying this much so I guess I'm saying it for my own benefit as I need to remember it!
Trying to imagine a narcissist as a "normal" adult is just what it is, a fantasy or a con they told you to get what they wanted at that moment..it's a heartbreaking relationship with any narcissist but it's almost impossible to get away from it
They’re incapable of unclenching their fist like a toddler when they perceive that they’ve suffered an injury to their feelings no matter how small that might seem to more stable people. They lack the basic skills and reciprocity to reconcile which is why a “relationship” with them is impossible!
Which science literature states that non improvement is possible? The channel with Otto Kernberg on it (I think he’s one of the experts in the field) states that the literature indicates that with specialist therapeutic help some narcissists can improve (I think the figure was 30%?). Obviously it’s a long road and no one should stay in an abusive dynamic waiting for that change because it will most likely not come whilst you’re enabling them, and you will be even more damaged in the process, but the literature does apparently state that recovery is possible according to the sources I mentioned. Surely we want people with this condition to get into therapy so that at the very least they can try to limit the impact of their condition on themselves and others? If everyone thinks no improvement is possible then this is much less likely.
The prognosis for NPD is markedly poor. There is a lot of literature and history on this subject but for one example the Cochrane Collaboration convened re: NPD on two separate occasions and in both, the review was withdrawn after a year with no progress made. The biggest problem is not that other people don't think progress is possible. Many people spend years and years trying to believe this. The problem is that nobody can help people who don't think they have a problem, refuse to acknowledge reality and/or refuse to participate in the work required to address any of this. Therapists are not magicians who can help someone against the person's will.
They seem to walk through life with this understanding that their emotional side is damaged looking for a savior that never comes. How sad is that for everyone involved? The broken dreams...
Yeah, there’s no red flags, when someone has always been that way and when it’s been normalized. By that same token, personally, I also feel that, when it’s said that people attract narcissists, I don’t necessarily agree. Other than narcissists possibly going after the people that they do, if you grew up in a narcissistic family, you may have not known it was fckd up. Even if you did, at least as far as I can tell, 99% of people have been groomed to tolerate, embrace and support it anyway. The thought of protecting yourself and going no contact, even as an adult, is seen as disobedience, whatever culture you come from. To me, it seems that it’s more to be a rarity that people have children, in order for the next generation to be more successful than the previous one. Doesn’t mean you don’t help your parents. But, I see far more stories, where the next generation is treated as if the very purpose of their being, is to support the previous generation.
It’s when you finally realize their problem IS NOT your problem, then you are FREE!
Yes because THEY are the problem.
"there is no place to put the missing piece" to paraphrase you badly .... I still remember the first time I heard you say that and how it hit me physically. You can't just plug in what they are "missing" because to them, nothing is "missing." This is how it is and the vessel is closed with no empty "slot" to put an understanding that other people exist.
Thank you for all your amazing work.
You're welcome and yes! Exactly. The machine works without those parts and has been doing so for decades. You cannot now add them in. There's nowhere for them to go.
They are missing a component which is called empathy... But they can't be cured for that and to survive they need our empathy and energy to survive. When we understand that they only mirrorong our behavior (and sometimes our empathy and love) to survive they turned it and threat us badly with ghosting us, gaslight and abuse us to feel A live and powerful. They are like vampires and sucks out our energy to be "normal" officially ... and also present us like we are crazy and evil. So they get empathy from others and present them self as an victim 😒 but in the fact WE are the victims.
Thank you for this very simple answer.
If they don’t think they’re “broken”, they obviously won’t want to “fix what ain’t broke”!!!
This helps to explain why they are so miserable. In the many years of my intimate relationship, I was lucky to have two consecutive weeks of peace without significant conflict.
This one really hits home doesn't it. You can't put a jigsaw puzzle back together if a piece is missing
Thank-you for your videos, i find them so clarifying, including this one.
I discovered several weeks ago what I was dealing with, what was driving me crazy, and what was so toxic about her and her adult son; they are both Narcissists. At first I felt an instant sense of relief as if the sun had come out and I could breathe again. Then I learned to deal with the constant, incessant, and automatic INVALIDATION they dished out by remaining INDIFFERENT. I shut up responding. I taught myself to not INTERNALIZE one bit of their nonsense.
Finally, without the back and fourths, the heated discussions, arguments, meltdowns, I just listened to them express their deepest, darkest feelings without interruption on my part.
OMG
They hate everyone. Everyone is a villain. They don't get the respect they deserve. No amount of money is enough. They demand worship, praise, anything less is disrespect. They don't want to feel good, they want to be angry, mad, sad, hateful. It is their norm.
Listening to them express is so intensely painful, I have to leave the room, sometimes the house. I find myself defending normal people, stopping these narcs from telling people what they really think. They say, "if I can't get the respect I deserve, I rather lose everything and go broke." Everything means, the business I built, the upper middle life I carved out. Throw it all away because they are so intensely angry all the time. It's so ugly.
Thanks!
You're so welcome. Thank you!
In other words, because the narcissist thinks that what they're doing is normal when they go to therapy Or a doctor they just continue to use their manipulative tactics on THEM .... That's if they even go to therapy at all
Exactly. Thank you so much for the insightful explanation, Ms. Shaman. God bless you abundantly in this new year 🙏🏻🎉
Glad to see you back again.
“There’s no place to put them.” That’s brilliantly said. And exactly why Jesus said “You must be born again.” He is able to install constructs which didn’t previously exist. It’s just so rare to run into these people.
Thanks for clearing that up Little Shaman. My mother has a long road ahead of her with my sister.
Remember that therapists are just people, they're not magic, the relationship helps heal wounds but someone has to work the process to get better and narcissists don't generally do this. Often going to therapy can be a smoke screen, The narcissist uses this as an excuse to say they are a good person, but will rationalize not doing the homework or using communication skills.
Thanks for sharing that, Lincoln. I'd say the relationship between the therapist and narcissist helps to *expose* wounds but it doesn't heal them unless they are willing to go through that long and painful process of "re-exposure, regulation and rebuilding". Life is not the therapist's office and when a "healing narcissist" runs into outside stressors again they will have to learn, as all mature people do, how to construct patience, wisdom, compassion, resilience and humility to weather the pressures, rejections and disappointments of life.
I didn't plan on saying this much so I guess I'm saying it for my own benefit as I need to remember it!
Trying to imagine a narcissist as a "normal" adult is just what it is, a fantasy or a con they told you to get what they wanted at that moment..it's a heartbreaking relationship with any narcissist but it's almost impossible to get away from it
They’re incapable of unclenching their fist like a toddler when they perceive that they’ve suffered an injury to their feelings no matter how small that might seem to more stable people. They lack the basic skills and reciprocity to reconcile which is why a “relationship” with them is impossible!
No! There go to learn more ways to manipulate and control you and look like they’re trying or care, it’s more crazy making.
2:25, 😆
In no uncertain words.
Which science literature states that non improvement is possible?
The channel with Otto Kernberg on it (I think he’s one of the experts in the field) states that the literature indicates that with specialist therapeutic help some narcissists can improve (I think the figure was 30%?).
Obviously it’s a long road and no one should stay in an abusive dynamic waiting for that change because it will most likely not come whilst you’re enabling them, and you will be even more damaged in the process, but the literature does apparently state that recovery is possible according to the sources I mentioned.
Surely we want people with this condition to get into therapy so that at the very least they can try to limit the impact of their condition on themselves and others? If everyone thinks no improvement is possible then this is much less likely.
The prognosis for NPD is markedly poor. There is a lot of literature and history on this subject but for one example the Cochrane Collaboration convened re: NPD on two separate occasions and in both, the review was withdrawn after a year with no progress made.
The biggest problem is not that other people don't think progress is possible. Many people spend years and years trying to believe this. The problem is that nobody can help people who don't think they have a problem, refuse to acknowledge reality and/or refuse to participate in the work required to address any of this. Therapists are not magicians who can help someone against the person's will.
The emotional side of their brain is damaged (non existent) so there is no hope for them.
They seem to walk through life with this understanding that their emotional side is damaged looking for a savior that never comes. How sad is that for everyone involved? The broken dreams...
Exactly. Even some self aware narc said he can't be cured he can simply try to do what's considered right not because he actually feel like doing it
@@AdamKraft-hq8pnyes they look for mommy. That's their ideal they can't ever find
so a large dose of magic mushrooms won't help? damn
I may have gotten some bad programming, but they have a chip missing.
Yeah, there’s no red flags, when someone has always been that way and when it’s been normalized.
By that same token, personally, I also feel that, when it’s said that people attract narcissists, I don’t necessarily agree. Other than narcissists possibly going after the people that they do, if you grew up in a narcissistic family, you may have not known it was fckd up. Even if you did, at least as far as I can tell, 99% of people have been groomed to tolerate, embrace and support it anyway. The thought of protecting yourself and going no contact, even as an adult, is seen as disobedience, whatever culture you come from. To me, it seems that it’s more to be a rarity that people have children, in order for the next generation to be more successful than the previous one. Doesn’t mean you don’t help your parents. But, I see far more stories, where the next generation is treated as if the very purpose of their being, is to support the previous generation.
Thanks!
Thank YOU! I'm so glad you find it helpful.