.. Ride Endurance bikes. But they are all so different. 🤷♂️
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- Опубліковано 6 лип 2024
- Inspired by David Arther I made this video to highlight the range of what could be called an Endurance Bike, and we discuss how race bikes can become much more comfortable with the modern wider tyres.
Bikes Featured
Trek Domane,
Canyon Endurace
Look 765 Optimum
TIME ADHX - Спорт
The answer to "which endurance bike should I buy" has always been, and seemingly continues to be, the Giant Defy. No gimmicks, relatively reasonably priced, comfortable through geometry alone (well, and Giant's approach to seatposts) and actually pretty snappy to ride. Giant just don't have the same brand caché as some others for some reason.
Also, I very much like the sound of a "gran fondue". 😂
I ride for fitness and the Defy is perfect for that. I'm not racing crits or doing really high speed descents down steep mountain passes where a race bike will shine.
I've got a Giant Defy, and I thought it was a good 'comfortable' long distance bike until I built a Ridley Noah. Even though the Ridley is essentially a 'race' bike I can ride it for longer than the Defy before the ass and hand numbness sets in. Despite it feeling super stiff it must have some compliance in the right places, and the buzz through the bars is much less than the Defy. As a bonus, the Ridley looks superb compared to the desperately ugly Defy with that massive down tube. I hardly ever ride the Defy these days.
@@thegearboxman Beauty is in the eye of the beholder...
We can talk about helmets to open up the gates of hell if you want?
😂
@@thegearboxman I owned a 2022 Defy and I get where Mapdec is coming from when he called Giant as a brand the M&S underpants of the cycling world.
Whatever, it's just brilliant to have all these options. Any one of these bikes will take you out of yourself and relieve the stress of daily life. They just each do so in a slightly different way...
Amen to that.
I think it is important to be honest about what you want out of a bike. But often you wont know until you have ridden quite a lot and tried several bikes. Nice and thought provoking.
Hi Paul, I know your view on endurance bikes differs from mine as you prefer the long straight motorway runs, but I can't see the Canyon Endurace as being dull. In fact it is a fairly light and nimble bike which I've been riding for five years now both on the flat and in the mountains. Must confess I chose a smaller size than recommended by Canyon as the larger one looked a fence. Don't mind the comparison to a Volvo, anything better than an suv. I bought the bike because it is very similar to a road race bike and at the time was one of the few which fitted larger tires. Would go for a racy type of gravel bike like an Open UP or a 3T if I were to buy a new bike today
The geometry difference between the ultimate and endurance is minimal. The endurance is the model of endurance bikes that’s closest to race bikes. I love my Canyon Endurance.
Not long ago, at age 61, I got back to riding after a ten-year span of riding only a handful of times. At that time I had a full-on race bike and a flat-bar hybrid, both aluminum and both over 20 years old. The race bike was the far more comfortable of the two. Since then, I've bought an "endurance" bike, with a bit slacker, geometry, a shorter reach, and a higher stack. It's comfortable and fast, but not twitchy like the aluminum race bike. It has become my primary ride. I guess that makes sense given the car analogies here, since I've been driving estates (Toyota, BMW, Audi, Subaru) since I my mid twenties, and since my reason to ride is to go further at a good speed rather than faster for a short distance.
I have a Domane and a Emonda as fast as each other. The Domane does not have to be boring. A few upgrades and the bike can feel quite lively for a Volvo.
Good enough for Cancellara who stopped riding the Madone when the Domane came out.
I had a V70R, not bad for a Volvo...
Since I had it for free I used a 14" impulso as a city and touring bike for awhile 2016 to 2018.
As a trial bike it's sh*t but it also survived that part.
Gave it to a coworker who painted it orange with a rattle can...
My Domane RSL has a 1.35:1 stack:reach ratio and 51mm trail. It’s anything but boring.
@@kidsafe but that's the elite pro race version of the bike not the models generally found in high street cycle shops.
I am so glad you made the Volvo vs bmw comparison. It told me everything I needed to know…
Great video, very practical advise!
I'm 50 years old and not exactly in race shape but don't want to give up & just cruise. So I just bought the new Supersix Evo! It has the higher stack, room for 32mm tires, and an oddly (for me) slack fork angle, but still feels racey & responsive! Coming from a 10 year old Madone, it's amazingly relaxed and comfortable!
At 48, I bought a Canyon Ultimate rim brake setup. Currently running conti ultra sport tires measuring just under 30 mm. Yes you can fit larger than 28's on ultegra R8000. It's a little low in the drops but I'm still somewhat flexible at 49. I just like the feel of a race bike. My Ti Lemond Tete de Course cracked at the BB couple years ago and wanted a pure road bike. If I want to do gravel I'll use my Giant Toughroad (highly under rated bicycle).
I bought a custom titanium frame this year to build up a road bike, and I based the geometry on the Cannondale Synapse since that seemed to be a well regarded endurance bike. And it's been great. It feels fast and nimble (despite being at 9+kg all in not particularly light), but at the same time is incredibly comfortable - I've ridden two 12+ hour rides on it this year (294km and 351km) and it's performed remarkably well, with no discomfort at all even after all those hours in the saddle.
I also do the same sort of rides (a few of them every year anyway) and that's my gameplan as well for my next bike. Custom built titanium or stainless steel frameset, copying the geometry of what was by far the best fitting frame I've ever had, a steel Holdsworth Brevet. It will be a rim brake frameset (another reason to go custom, as by then nobody will mass-produce decent rim brake framesets regardless of their geometry) and I'll make sure it fits actual 30c tyres with standard reach brake calipers, which is something easily done if the frame design is done right. Not that I ride anything other than 27-28mm tyres nowadays, but it's good to know I could go a bit higher if need be.
Interesting take on analogous cars. My brother (66) rides a '20 Domane and I (59) ride a '23 Roadmachine. I find the Domane to be somewhat dead and sluggish but he's fitted it up with a brooks b17 and can just go all day on it and find bliss. I find the Roadmachine still gives me the response to pedal input I desire as well as no gimmicky frame couplers. A little seatpost flex and wider tires feels like luxury to me! But yeah, it definitely wants to go straight compared to my more race geometry bike. But the cool part is now two long-in-the-tooth brothers can each ride longer and more comfortably then if we stubbornly stuck to racing bikes. I've made peace with it may come at some avg speed and cornering agility.
Really good video. The Look looks great!
🙏
Sometimes you have to look for a more relaxed geometry and to embrace it as comfortable riding may be faster. This is why some folks are embracing gravel vice road.
Also, you should never buy a bike without a full on bike fit.
These videos are the ones worth waking up for!
Great vid Paul in getting the core message across effectively, while simultaneously populating it with nuanced detail. Nothing missed …… learn about bike geo and why it matters, be clear about what types of riding you want to do, look after yourself. I agree 100% from my own experience. Speaks to all levels so great job 👍.
Thank you Kevin
Yes. Yes. Yes. This video matches exactly my experience buying a new bike 2 months ago. I went into the store wanting "the most comfortable endurance bike." Because of all the reviews I thought I was going to get a Cannondale Synapse. However, after test-riding it, my feeling was "meh" and all the fun of riding a road bike felt almost completely gone. Then I tried Cervelo Caledonia, which was also very comfortable but a bit more "fun" to ride. Finally, however, I settled down on a BMC Roadmachine and discovered I didn't really want "the most comfortable bike" but, instead, what I wanted was the best ratio of comfort and fun like good position, nimble handling, a feeling of direct engagement with the road etc. Now I've had my BMC Roadmachine for 2 months and absolutely love it. And that bike is at the most aggressive end of the so-called "endurance bikes."
Can't wait for my next Gran Fondu🧀
Every
Ride needs cheese
@@MapdecI had almost zeroed in on the ADHX or ADHX45 - only to find they do it do fenders! 😞
Spot on commentary based on my personal experience
🙏
We should look to an endurance bikes with wider tyre clearance and a NON integrated stem to allow an simple,broad range of fit adjustment.
one problem with modern endurance bikes is the tubing profile. comfort and weight is compromised with aero shapes and disc brakes. to attain better comfort they try to fit wider 30c+ tires but it will add weight and reduce that energetic feel. 2012-2017 endurance bikes are the pinnacle of light endurance bikes with comfort-focused tubing with zero regard for aero. rim brakes and semi-internal cables with clearance for 28-30mm which is sufficient, they don't need gimmicks because the cylindrical main tubes and thin seatstays strictly developed for vertical compliance and lateral stiffness are just stronger and more comfy for all day riding, it's physics. also if you're in a group ride aero doesn't matter that much
100% valid points. Also, if you're not racing, aero doesn't matter anyway. Sure you'll get where you're going a bit slower, but who cares about that when they're not racing? If you're into endurance riding, you want to enjoy pain-free day-long rides, and you're mostly likely not giving a rat's ass about those 3.7W saved at 40 km/h thanks to full cable integration or those other 12.5W saved at 40 km/h thanks to wind tunnel tested aero tubing and whatnot. It's all about how far and how comfortably can you ride that bike, and ideally for the least amount of money too.
2017-2018 was the peak of the cycling industry as a whole anyway, since then it's only been pushing solutions searching for problems. Cable integration, wireless/electronic everything, tubeless, obsession with aerodynamics, they all create at least as many problems as they claim to solve, and most of those problems don't really exist anyway.
My first bike was all-road Scott Speedster 10 (alu., 2020), bought a new Van Rysel EDR 105 (Carbon, 2022) and while I like the stiffness or power delivery of the new one, I want my first bike back for long rides. It had larger tire clearance and didn't make me tired so fast.
As a resident of Switzerland - im an absolute legend of the 'Grand Fondue's' - seriously , I m lucky enough to be able to chop and change my bikes, so have a Teamachine (s), road machine , pinarello k8-s ( that's quite a rare bike and probably more on the lines of you idea of a real endurance bike) - saying that , I felt there was room for an Endurace which is now on order - like the idea of having something very anodyne if the feeling suits me. I do regular routes and record on Strava so interested to see how this compares
In the end it depends on what you want to do with it. 200km might be a rather short distance . Most people I see around sit on their bikes horribly, mainly because they are too long. If Ueli Steck could climb the Eiger north face in light boots and no rope it does not mean we all can either. The same goes for bikes. Everyone has their own preferences though, so they should get what they like. But they should also know that fit is important, probably more than the quicker steering or 27 grams less weight
And he died 😢
Depends on the rider fit. Long or short back influences the how the riders preference.
Best comment. I am 1.8m with short body and long legs and arms
I ride the tween, Colnago C59 in 42S. Supposed to be endurance but it can be racy. I had the Colnago CX-1 in 45S before, that is a crit machine, extremely sharp handling with a shorter wheelbase. Surprisingly the 42S on the C59 is closer to the 45S in the CX-1, that is why I chose 42S. The C59 is not as sharp in handling compared to the CX-1 but it is not a slouch.
Good morning, Team Mapdec 👋. Really insightful video with actual bikes together with clear descriptions for each genre. It's frustrating for cyclists as these lines blur and grey somewhat with marketing "words & details" for many of the top globally recognised brands.
Thanks for the clarity: it's definitely food for thought.
My gravel/allroad bike is long and slack. I actually feel like it's too long. In terms of feeling powerful, my hardtail is the bike that feels like that, seems to put me more forward and " over the cranks" . I guess I should measure it a figure out what gives that feeling...
With a decent stack and lesser reach the Domane would still be a racy position for my long legs/short body... Not all blokes are long body/armed apes with wee legs....
With the lousy weather coming to New England soon my miles will be cut, so the best thing I can do is heed your advice and get into the gym more.
Very good video.
I'm mid 50s riding Audax on a 12 year old steel frame with rim brakes.
Bikes have changed
thank you.. Yes, I think bikes are seeing the fastest pace of development I have ever known.
Glad to have stumbled across this video in the back catalogue…am getting a bit underwhelmed with being told by reviewers and YT channels that I “should” ride an endurance bike because it’s comfortable. Or it’s what I “need”. Being pushed toward Endurace/Defy/Fray/Domane all seems a bit like being told I’m not worthy of having a racy bike because I’m north of 40, and/or don’t have a World Tour FTP (or flexibility). It’s great that these options exist, but what I need and what I want are sometimes two different things and - to continue the car metaphor - maybe I want to strut around in a 2seater sports car from time to time!
Hell yeah. I’m out in Mallorca right now having a blast on a pro tour race bike. It’s breaking me a bit, but it’s sooooo much fun I don’t care.
Why I prefer CX bikes. Still racy easy to turn and react, yet most can do long days. Durable light frames. Wider tires are easy to use that can rougher roads/some trails. Now days might lose the widest but thoes are best for certain situations anyways. The only drawback for years till recently was canti's horrible braking in many situations off the cx race course. Now days not a problem with disc. Find a CX bike that takes more than UCI race tire limits of 33mm-35mm, which CX frames did andstill do, as their the so called fast/race gravel frames anyways but just with different name than CX frame. Crux, plus so many more former high end cx bikes now called gravel.
Interesting. I ride a Caledonia 5 and a S3. They have the same stack and reach, so the Caledonia is a pretty aggressive fit for something “soft”. Other than on super smooth roads I’d take the Caledonia 90% of the time as it does everything so well.
The stack geometry according to Cervelo’s website is very different for the S5 and the Caledonia 5. Can you please clarify what you’re talking about?
I said S3 @@user-cu7cn1km7i
Any thoughts on the Caledonia vs their new Soloist?
The soloist feels unnecessary harsh in comparison to the Caledonia 5, but it does really give anything extra for the fatigue. With an integrated front end in sure the 5 is as, of not more aero if that matters to you. The 5 seatpost give so much more compliance with the same setback, which is nice for shitty roads. @@BennyOcean
I’m actually tempted by the new Defy as it’s geo has gone closer to that of a TCR just not as low. My main gripe other than the eye watering price of these modern bikes is the 32 mm tyres. Are very really as fast as 28mm ?
Yes. Faster. Especially when you factor in less braking for corners, holding speed on flats.
I like my domanes position for commuting with a backpack 😅. Also I use it when I go to our ride dates with my girlfriend... I bring ALL the munchies with somewhat bearable back pressure.
I love these Bowers&Wilkins speakers with cevlar membrane in the background! Kudos for that ;)
Sorry, P4's and p6's are the one that stoped me, on progressing b&w marketing, late 2000, ;), so to get back in question, which series are these? 300? Bestregard from Roubaix rider due to neck disc replacement 🙃
Geek level 20. 👍. Well done.
Glad to hear that, p4S and p6's, apart from high coli replacement are dingo Great;) love this chanell
Best regard from Poland ;)
@@frikus 👋
"car park appeal"... I recall you getting me to ride an ADHX around your car park! (It was great, of course...)
You are welcome to go a bit further on it one day.
Thanks. I've been looking to change from my 2013 Giant defy. It's good but not really exciting. I tried a Canyon Endurace and again it was good but I didn't feel it was exciting. I also tried a Canyon Ultimate. I loved it on the climbs and descents but rough roads felt harsh. I guess I am looking at the car equivilent of a GT / cruiser. I also want to try BMC Roadmachine / Teammachine and Ridley Fenix. It's just trying to find them in stock for a decent test ride and not just around a car park.
Did you try the Ultimate with wider tyres at lower pressure?
Unfortunately not as swapping tyres wasn't possible at the time. Maybe a revisit needed. Thank you.@@Mapdec
thank you for your assessment. As a person with long legs (90cm for a height of 180), I need a bike with a long head tube so that I don't have a spacer tower or neck pain. Which bike with a long head tube and short top tube is fast and agile and not an SUV or a Volvo?
I just bought a Pearson Forge - that might well fit the bill for you.
That look geometry seems to be similar to what canyon did with the new grail. Longer wheelbase but slacking the head angle but maintaining a short chainstay. I'm actually considering that for my next all road. I'm mostly do ultra endurance (200-1200) and I've owned a giant propel and a cervelo Soloist. Yes they are exciting bikes but they are so stiff that even with tubeless comfort adjusted tire, I can feel the stiffness translating into fatigue after 300+ kms. So I believe in that context David is right, but thanks for putting more perspective to endurance Bikes. BTW I currently use BMC Road machine X for ultras. I used to have the Caledonia but I find it a tad bit stiff vs the roadmachine.
Nice. The Look 765 and the Road Machine are very similar as I showed. Great long distance bikes.
Where would you put the Orbea Orca? Similar to the Look?
For me Time nailed it with the ADHX. Currently running with 32mm road tires and it’s the most comfortable road bike i’ve ever ridden. Bit heavy with 1 kilo more than my 20 yo alu road bike, but it’s still faster despite the extra weight. Perfect do-it-all bike as far as I’m concerned. Not a competitive cyclist other than trying to beat myself, so i’ve got no need for the fastest and most aero bike out there. Wouldn’t trade it for anything, regardless of price. Done only short 2 hour rides so far, but I’m sure a full day in the saddle won’t be an issue. I have the XL/58cm. If I have to be really picky, with 1.93m I may have gone with a slightly larger frame if there would have been one.
Perfect. Glad you love it. The ADHX Geo does work well in XL.
Look I have a 2016 Trek Domane, which is classified as an endurance bike. Whilst this is an enjoyable bike to ride, and comfortable. I just find it shall we say to comfortable. So if I get the funds together for a newer bike, I would go for a more aero / race bike. Add some gel cork bar tape to the carbon bars, it will give some comfort in the hands.
So what would be a good Granfondo bike ? 100km 3000meters +
I want something like Dodge Durango SRT. What bike would you recommend?
Domane rider here and yeah, I kinda agree. Went to a Domane after a bikefit because my hip is slightly twisted and I need the shorter reach and higher stack. In a really agressive position the twist is gone so my TT-bike is pretty agressively setup. That position is too agressive to keep riding for long times on a normal roadbike so it's either 'endurance fit' or aerobars for me. For normal cycling I opt for the first.
I need a stack of about 580 and a reach of 370. My Domane fits great with a (standard) 9cm stem, but a Look 765 Optimum would fit just as great. So what is what? Are they both endurance bikes, or do they both have an endurance fit?
I think there should be a difference between 'endurance bikes' and 'endurance fit', but I don't know for sure what it should be but I prefer the 'fit' over the 'bike'. My Domane is old, it's a 2015 model, I haven't replaced it because I don't like all the extra flexibilities the manufacturers added, that isospeed at the back of my Trek is fine, but the other parts? Flexible steeres? Pistons at the back? I don't see why they do it.
Give me a bike I can fit on, if I want more comfort I will get bigger, softer tires.
Ohhhhh. This is good. Endurance fit needs a better name, but you’re on to something.
For me super expensive bikes way out of my pocket but you don’t have to pay a fortune for a good comfortable endurance bike I have a Giant Contend AR 3 it’s brilliant love riding it and a modest £850 in sale.
63. 100kg. Fit. ALL my aches sorted by going lower and racier. Old school geometry, larger fame (steel). Those, "endurance " bikes ride like Raleigh Choppers
What pre-built endurance bike up to 3k€ would you suggest consider buying? I would like to have a custom built bike in your shop but you guys are too far away from where I live :)
Hey Volvos are nice cars. In terms of the TCR and Defy, i should have bought a Defy because I use a really high saddle height but comparatively short reach, thus the longer/higher head tube on the Defy makes sense for me. (I use a size small TCR with the seatpost all the way up at maximum extension, so if I use no spacers the bars are REALLY low compared to the saddle. I'm fully flexible but I don't need them *that* low.
That said, I didn't check other aspects of the Defy frame, like whether the steerer angle is different, if it had longer chainstays, etc. The stiffness and handling of the TCR are nice and I definitely don't want a noticeably flexy bike
This is very interesting and very popular topic now a days , i have tried every type of bike in existence and have to say at the end of the day one has so so many choices finding the perfect bike is pretty simple IF could try few and find what works best for you but that is less and less of a possibility, who will loan you a bike for a proper ride and give you a choice to buy it or not at the end? when you think all bikes use same components, wheels, accessories the frame becomes the most important piece and one a buyer must chose carefully.
So right. With so many bike now bought unseen from the web, it is hard to get the frame right.
So how would an ADHX differ from a CX bike? My old Jake the /snake [2005ish] takes 38mm tyres and seems to have similar geometry ? Ok, I'm sure it's lighter and stiffer and has disc brakes, but otherwise similar?
I think you nailed it there. The only thing to add would be the ride quality of the Dynema RTM
Good video addressing salient points, in particular pointing out that too high a stack and you may as well get a flat bar fitness bike. I made a mistake buying a Fairlight Strael with the tall frame option. Ended up fitting narrow 40 cm bars and removing 30 mm of 40mm headset spacers. This whole subject can be overthought and over anylised, IMO just get out on your bike and enjoy it for what it is. A lot of cycling journalists clearly have to promote manufacturers and models.
True. At the same time bikes have become very expensive and the marketing waffle has become useless, so I hope this has helped a few people make a good choice.
Great video, and a topic which i am currently entangled as i consider a new bike purchase, can i get you take on the geometry of the Basso Astra?
We did a vid on the Basso
Late to the party here. 2022 bought a Fairlight Strael and their sizing metric suggested i get the 58 cm Tall version rather than Standard. Im 6'1" and long limbed. I found it too sit up and beg, so removed 20mm of 40mm headset spacers. Also changed 44cm wide handlebars for 40cm. At 63 years old but still fit, 82kg ftp 261 im not ready for pootling around catching the wind
Nice one. Great stats. Stay strong 💪
Any idea or would you recommend a bianchi Intenso what kind of bike would this be classified as?
Same principle as Defy etc. It wouldn’t be in my top 10 in that category.
Where do you think the Basso Venta sits in this category?
In the Defy category.
Hey Paul! What are your thoughts on new Basso Astra geometry? It has super high stack and short reach, more aggressive angles. Mainly comparing it to Look 765 optimum 2, since i'm trying to decide which frame to go for ultimate comfort :)
I guess that depends on if you find high and short comfortable. Although this fit might alive hip flexors it also loads weight onto your bum and can add tension to shoulders. Not to mention loosing glute efficiency.
Honestly is there any bike that’s in the middle of endurance and race like what faint has done with defy thing is you buy a race bike and you want more comfort buy a endurance bike and want a bit more race like any ideas for what’s in the middle maybe cube agree I currently ride a synapse great for being out on own training bike but group rides at pace it’s hard to stay with pack if there on race light geometry
It’s a TCR with wider tyres and lower pressures and maybe another 1cm headset spacer.
Fabian Cancellara rode the Domane for virtually every road race he entered after it came out. That's for climbing stages and flatter stages he was trying to win.
*It's always been one of my favorite biked with every iteration. But I refuse to buy another BB90 bike so I avoided getting one until this recent version and it's definitely my favorite bike
His was famously very modified shape for him. But yes, still had the flexy headset thing
@@Mapdec I have the classics edition Domane which was his Flanders bike and it's longer and lower than my H1 Emonda. It doesn't fit me but it is my favorite bike to ride - they make the ProEndurance version still in frame only or Project One. Like the Koppenberg Domane I think it's one of the best they ever made.
Anyone that has a Cervelo aspero with both gravel and road tires? Love to hear it
Fantastic breakdown. Which stem is that on your Look Optimum?
It’s the LOOK LS3 in 110mm
Endurance is a term from before the dawn of road disc brakes. Rim calipers prevented bigger tires. Today it is akin to all road. Geo can vary but tire clearance is most valuable. If you can’t fit 35mm rubber you need to redesign your frame. Race bikes are still stuck in the aero game. Endurance tends to avoid that stuff.
some of us don't like doing a 4 to 5 hour ride on a Sunday club run though and that is why I choose a race bike as my road bike. I want something I can go fast on doing a quick 40 mile ride and go home. Don't want to sit in the saddle all day and so I'd rather pick the TCR or even the TCX as my road bike and not bother if a Defy.
What model is that Look? I missed you saying the model. Also love that BMC machine you pictured.
765 optimum
I admit to not knowing a lot about road bikes but as I am getting more and more into riding on roads instead of trails/MTB I have started to look for a road bike, and that is where the nightmare begins. Race, gravel, cross, endurance, fitness, all-round, seems to be some of the choices, and then in different sub-models with slightly different geometry, build materials, and not least design. Then comes all the components and you end up with an humongous equation with too many unknowns and your budget as the only known factor. I suppose it is great to be spoilt for choice but as a novice without a network of experienced riders or mechanics to give advice, and potentially departing with several many thousand GBP, it can be quite difficult and even daunting to narrow down the search for one particular bike that is, hopefully anyway, just the right bike for you.
I hope this helped a bit. MTB is a bit easier. You tend to only worry about travel and head angle. Road bikes really do depend on geometry a lot more.
@@Mapdec The more I learn the more I realise that I know nothing.
@@_J.F_ everyday is a school day
Start with a good bike fit. It will cost you but it will also give you the geometry you need - then it's a case of matching those figures to bikes.
What are the actual geometry differences between Endurace and Look?
Longer FC, slacker HA, I believe they share the same SA
I’m an 90/10 road:gravel rider with a budget for one bike. I find myself wrestling between an aggressive gravel bike which can perform on the road and one of these all road types which might be compromised on gravel. Ah the deliberations of an impoverished cyclist!
Get an all road and slap on a redshift stem and maybe a carbon flex seatpost
It’s less about compliance and more about control on the proper gravel. The road bike is running 23mm tyres that refuse to perish so any clearance north of 30mm is going to feel like a magic carpet 😂
Same thoughts here. ....but I think I will try to have 2 dedicated bikes to my disposal, even with shrinking budget ...I rather look for a secondhand rimbrake proper carbon frame roadbike...while for Offroad Gravel a cheaper aluminium frame (but dedicated for Offroady) will do just fine ....2 bikes better than 1 😁👍
Haha.. Get a volvo :). And the carpark effect is so real buying a second hand bike - if seller has nice smooth hotmix outside the door.
Great video! What bike would you recommend for someone with stiff back & neck, pain in too sporty positions, but still looking for performance on the flat and uphill? Bikefitter recommended an SUV because of the higher stack…
...a physiotherapist?! 😅
I recommend some physiotherapy and maybe some personal strength training this winter. Then go back to the bike fitter and get a fresh opinion.
@@Mapdec thank you… I’ve been doing fysio since a long time, i do daily mobility and strenght exercises too. I’ve always had a “stiff” body structure. Got a Look 586 now, with stem adjusted with a large angle to increase comfort. My brain says i need a Suv, my heart wants a racer. Not sure if there is a compromise.
@@BrechtBeehive a racer that takes wider tyres and looks ok with an extra 1cm headset spacer. You might need to buy frame only that comes with an in cut steerer tube.
Aww, mate. I’m a 62 year oldish roadie speed freak - gave up on cycling 4 years ago due to being riddled with arthritis and serious associated tendinopathy. 2 shoulder ops and intensive hip work & physio later I got me a Canyon hybrid - nice but ended up out cycling and selling it. Then tried the Canyon Endurace - good but didn’t strike the right balance for geometry and so sent it back. So got me a Domane. It doesn’t match my BMW X Series attitude (too many licence speeding points and i rarely go gravel but handy) and i’m getting some wonderful zippy miles in on it in comfort. Agree, it’s a bit cardigan and slippers but a Volvo 😂 Point being, it wasn’t sold to me I chose it because it’s right. Still, I miss the acceleration and pace of my old Bianchi - my shoulders and back don’t.
Perfect. The Domane has its place, but I just think it is oversold to folk that don’t really know what they do want.
yes, and at a premium price!
I don't buy into the idea of you're old / low fitness / ill health so get an endurance bike. The question of which bike to get is moot for me because I will likely never be able to get a new bike again, but I still like to watch the videos and hope that one day my situation will improve, and always what I want is a race bike that's fun.
I have at least three, and almost certainly more chronic pain conditions (it's not actually possible to confirm with tests, so all diagnosis is best guess.) Pain issues are including my lower, mid and upper back and there are times when pain is so bad I am barely able to bend. Even so, I've spent a huge amount of time on the gym, Pilates and doing fitness classes trying to mitigate my condition and my flexibility is now extremely good compared to anyone. My core strength isn't ideal yet, I've been doing what I can to improve but it's impossible to be consistent, but that is my primary focus now.
I'm hardly alone in this either, two of the fitness instructors I've worked with have their own chronic conditions, yet they are immensely strong and very flexible. And as I write this comment I'm also thinking about some of the older people in my gym and classes, in their 70s, 80s and in one case 90s, most of them lifting as comfortably and heavy as young people, and going to hard classes 3-4 times per week.
Despite my issues I ride my flat bar hybrid regularly, and my main frustration is I often want to get much lower and longer when I feel relatively okay. When I do get low the main limitation is hyperextension of the neck when I need to look further down the road, that can get painful fast, so I will be working on neck strengthening soon I hope, and then I want to fit the 135 mm adjustable stem I have, after that maybe I can convert it to a drop bar bike..
My dream bike would probably be something like an all new Time Scylon (the current one dates back to 2016?) and honestly I don't think I would care if I could only ride for 30 - 90 minutes at a time as long as it's exciting. I'd rather get more range and speed from a motor and have the 'endurance' + extra miles that way. I see a couple of bikes like the new Wilier Filante with the Mahle X20 motor, and that very discreet TQ mid mount motor and think we're almost there with making the electric assist just disappear into the background. News reports say Toyota will launch solid state battery cars in 2026, so maybe it won't be that long before that tech makes its' way into bike as well and we'll have decent range from e-race bikes, but still have classic looks and lines we want.
This turned into a long waffly reply, but bottom line is get the bike that you want to ride, work on strength and flexibility if you want to reduce the number of spacers under your stem.
I ride an endurance bike because I cycle in a city. I need a more upright posture so I can see the traffic around me.
Perfect for flat bars.
@@Mapdec too few hand positions.
@@MapdecWhat's with the handlebar gatekeeping? If I want to ride a bike like an overweight middle aged man why should I be restricted to flat bars?
Some dangerous car comparisons there Paul - BMWs and Range Rovers? Not perceived as the most cyclist friendly brands 😂.
I think you're right about us older riders being steered towards 'endurance geometry' and videos like this help us understand what we really want which, as you point out, isn't always a Trek Domane (other, similar bikes are available).
Full disclosure - I'm grey and pot-bellied and I've got a Ribble CGR SL, sold to me a couple of years ago when I was a babe-in-the-woods as a rider.
It seems very easy to get stereotyped
Yup, a vendor absolutely wanted to sell me a domane but then i rebelled and I said, do you what it is that i said, i told him what i really wanted! Wow! Yup since then i wow on my bike. I love it. I love to wow and i'm very good at it. That said your présentation of dull bikes was vey interesting. I learned about this untuned race bike to make you feel just as if it was the real thing but for the elders. Very interesting! Thanks again.
I'm graying, balding, and not as svelte as I'd like though not quite pot-bellied. I still find my 2000 Allez Pro to be a very nice ride. I've recently acquired a 2008 Kestrel Talon that's potentially even better once I get it switched from tri bars to drops. But neither is as nice to ride as my 2019 Battaglin San Luca, the magic carpet of fast bikes.
@@rangersmith4652 I think that's the point that Paul is trying to make - don't buy the bike they want to sell you, buy the one that suits you, hence your Alley Pro. Can I also place on record that I exaggerated when I said I had a pot belly?😂
@@Robutube1 Yes. There are many sizes of pots. Mine's more of a small skillet, indicative of how too many of my meals are prepared.
Jeez it’s so damn hard. Been trying to decide for nearly 3 years now. Bike fitter says you need an endurance geometry, but the bikes are a bit uninspiring or now getting pointless gimmicks.
I had actually pretty much decided on an ADHX after watching the Mapdec videos, coz they are a work of art. But now this new description has put me off 🙄😂.
I don’t care about gravel. Really I wanna avoid these mass production brands, but at the end of day options are actually quite limited these days.
Saying all this, I’m certain anything will feel gold over my old Focus.
If a fitter says you ‘need’ an endurance bike. I would say FU and go get some help with your mobility. Then go back and try again.
@@Mapdec Please don't assume the situation. Some of use have spinal conditions (and multiple surgeries) to try to fit a bike around. This forced me to go from my small TCR w/17k miles on it to a med Defy (w/midget stem) to get enough stack. Still looking for a replacement for my Stevens Super Prestige CX bike.
@@lastfm4477 I’m sure that in cases like yours where you have already exhausted surgery and years of physio that you can understand my point and it limitations. Traumatic injuries leaving someone permanently disabled at whatever level obviously requires special equipment. Just neglecting joint and muscle health to the point someone can’t bend to reach handlebars should be a call to adjust their fitness priorities a bit.
Get to know your reach, head tube height, seat tube height, and get a bike that fits with those measurements in mind….could be ‘race’ or ‘endurance’…it doesn’t really matter!
The new breed of gravel bikes are longer and slacker , theyd make a good winter road (and offroad) ride
Interesting, but the video playing in the background is so distracting that I had to stop watching before the end.
Noted.
@@Mapdec still great content though 😅
67 here and I just like fast bikes :)
Hell yeah!
I've been riding for 40 odd years. I just ride a bike. Now Pinarell Prince. It's a bike that fits and is compfy. To be honest I wouldn't know the difference between a race and endurance geometry.It must be only tiny degrees.
Its almost as if the designers of 80's steel race bikes with horizontal rear dropouts and height adjustable stems knew what they were doing.
I have a domane. And its like an armchair with wheels. I love it but now that i have a proper race bike (felt AR) the trek has been relegated to my getting groceries bike
I feel this is a familiar story. How’s the leg?
@@Mapdec look forward to your vids. Your my favorite show. Have you considered doing a podcast? Anyway, leg is LUMPY! Thanks for asking. Will be 100% in a couple of months i think. A little smarter maybe, and quite a bit poorer for sure 😉
I think the manufacturers are giving the customers what they think they want, how many bikes do you see with short flipped stems?
Whenever I ask what's going on regards the position and the answer is, I have a bad back.
Speaking from personal experience of back pain, sitting upright on the bike isn't necessarily the best solution, stretching out for me was part of my managing my back.
Great comment. I think a lot of this is the result of marketing focus groups. Who wants a bike that’s comfortable, surefotted and effortless to ride 🤦♂️
solution is go buy a super expensive Time bike , the frameset costs the same as Giant defy Canyon, ready to roll. Buy a BMW / Range rover and Time bike, u be fine. I think David A makes great videos and is very considered in his opinions, his channel is targeted to broader rider set, not just specialists and more elite riders
Quelle est la taille du look 765? Et combien mseurez vous?
Merci
L, 183cm
Grand Fondue .... sounds a bit cheesey 😂
The Canyon Endurace is the perfect endurance bike 👍 Nobody apart from a racer should be riding the racing bikes and just having wider tyres won’t help.
Race bikes are fun though.
@@Mapdec
James Dean loved his Porsche Speedster tooo as you like a car analogy
If everyone just bought a Gravel bike then the world would be a happier place. :)
'Inspired by David Arthur' there's a sure fire way to lose a shed load of viewers 😏🤣
I need an endurance bike solely because the roads keep getting worse.
Ha! Same reason my gravel bike is now ridden with 90% road set-up. Good luck
Maybe if you can get over an 80-90mm stem and 25-35mm of spacers most of the current race bikes can fit anybody- and with 32mm tires the comfort is there. trick is to find a bike that looks decent with that amount of spacer, some do some don't. Remember when you are riding the bike you cant see the spacers:)
With my rather high inseam for my height (89 cm for 182 cm), I already need to do exactly that (90 mm stem, +8 degrees positive angle, 27 mm of spacers underneath) on a frame with a stack/reach ratio of almost 1.5, using short reach and shallow drop handlebars. On a "race" geometry frameset I would need at least 50 mm of spacers, if not more, which is already a big NO when riding carbon steerer forks. Mass-produced bike frames don't cater the needs of "freaks" with abnormally long legs and short torsoes, let alone those with a poor lower back flexibility. And although "endurance" road bikes and even gravel bikes are way more appropriate for the average, non-competitive road cyclist, outliers like me still need to push the boundaries of stem/spacer/handlebar configurations. Or go custom, which is what I am planning to do in a few years' time when I get bored of my current titanium frameset.
I think you missed the point in this video.... instead of focusing on the advantages and inclusiveness of endurance bike you proceeded to bash these bikes in general...and no ... This might he hard for you to believe... but there are perfectly fit people that want an endurance bike...not everyone gets boxed into buying one... for some its perfectly exciting to ride these bikes in comfort and enjoy the journey... matter of fact the endurance bike is what most people require...who needs a "race" bike if you arent racing... you lost a couple of points with this video...
I think you missed the point. Most ‘endurance’ bikes should be called ‘relaxed fit’. A true endurance bike has the purpose of long hours of endurance riding and has the geometry to suit the task.
I agree with David. I own a Giant Defy Adv Pro 0 and it’s a fantastic bike. Super fast and super comfortable. It’s a perfect bike for me
Run your audio through Adobe Podcast enhance. It will help remove some of the background noise/echo
I’ll take a look. Thanks.
One other issue is that an XS bike will ride remarkably different to an XL bike, even if the family of bike is supposed to be the same. And even between brands, the difference between an XL Defy and XL Roadmachine is much more different than the difference between an XS Defy and XS Roadmachine. Thus my knowledge and experience as a 192cm rider doesn't translate to yours if you're 170cm, say.
I'm 1.91 and don't know whether to go with an L or an XL Canyon Grail or Ultimate? Is XL too long for me, if you can help?
@@userdjee834 depends on many things, chiefly of which is your inseam length. I'm all torso and short legs so at 192cm I fit best on an XL with 0mm offset seatpost.
@@sabamacx Thanks so much. No, I'm average, perhaps slightly longer legs and arms than average, inseam 90-91cm. I think I'm going to go with an XL Canyon
@@userdjee834 If you are in between sizes perhaps you need to think of going for a different brand.
At age 59 I'm thinking my Addict RC is too sporty these days. My 12 year old Synapse and 5 year old Genesis Datum are back in favour.
For me, an endurance bike needs to be able to accommodate the Continental 5000 AS TR in 35mm.
I bought the TCR because it was just way better value than a Defy. I have 30mm tubeless tires at 55 psi on them and the bike is super comfortable. I do have the stem as low as possible. One odd thing with the Defy is the gearing choice. 50/34 by 11-36. I cannot imagine needing a 34x36 gear for any climb.
Depends what you climb, I have one around here, 150m elevation, average 16%, peak at 21%. I use the 34x36 on that one.
Let me introduce you the the Wrynose pass one day.
The fantastic solution is to swop your inner 34 ring for a 39.
Its a low cost easy to do solution that change the bikes characteristics.
A 50/39 also shifts better and has no implications on other mechanical
settings on your bike. I do this sometimes with 11-32/34 bikes.
On one older 9 speed 11-34 I fitted an inner 38 and that is roughly equivalent
to a 34-30. (enough for normal climbs)
You just don't live in the right places.
Trek Domane is a flat bar bike….. sick burn.
48yo ride a Domane SL6. Few upgrades from standard obviously but its best money I've evwr spent. Few KOMs and Cups plus 100s of PBs.