Maybe you should make a video with very specific steps of how to start to play in 2022. For example, Step 1 download the rulebooks here, then step 2 go to this site to buy the minis, then buy paints here, then....you know what I mean. Otherwise this was a very useful video to learn that there are still people out there playing this. I am from a country when none of these things were available and I could not buy them. This is why I feel a gap with both battle fleet gothic and with Space Hulk. Those two games I really want to play.
Something to consider for this type of video - it's better to say why you like BFG than to dump on other games. This video takes a lot of shots at 40k, AoS, and even the BFG video games. And if someone is coming to this video because they play 40k and are interested in BFG, or they played Armada and are interested that could turn them off the game. I think you make a lot of good points on the advantages of BFG, but focus more on those and less on what you dislike about other games.
Saw the number of subs at 999 and with my OCD suddenly acting up I just had to press that subscribe button. So congrats on reaching your 1000 subscribers.
My absolute favorite GW game. It became a little clunky with the force escalation by the time Necrons came out but it was damn sweet up to that point. The original four forces of Imperial, Chaos, Ork, and Eldar were well balanced and played very differently with Imperial and Chaos the most similar. I left 40k in 3rd edition but would dive back into BFG if it came back and they didn't obsolete everything from the past.
The alternating shooting phase idea is interesting. Does one entire team fire and then the other team fires? Or does it alternate per ship? Ive seen games put a counter on every ship, and have teams alternate "activating" (by removing the counter) 1 ship at a time, to move/shoot until all the counters are gone. I've also seen fleet games do simultaneous shooting phases as well, with damage calculated after so that everyone gets a chance to shoot, even if they end up dying that turn. Not sure which system is truly the best
Great Question. Typically one turn is divided into each player having a command phase, move, attack, and cleanup phase. In space: everything moves.(cept planets, they go boom!) Blast markers are placed for successful hits v armor, and d6 blast markers are removed during the cleanup phase. The issue being: The active player's ship (escort/capital) that engages first, and successfully hits, will have their dmg resolve first. Basically "whoever goes first wins." and fleet movements of some races shouldn't be as coordinated as play allows. In *alternating fire*, when an active player's ship moves & attacks, the defending ship (if it survives) is allowed to make a command action: return fire w/ modifiers; or roll to "lock on" until end of next attack phase; or Load Ordinance; or Take evasive maneuvers (move half speed & turn action, no attack next turn); or "Brace for Impact" This allows for more realistic combat engagements between ships/squads as salvos & volleys can be resolved, with the only drawback being defensive player gets to take a free attack or make a command roll other than "brace for impact".
I had not heard of the 2020 rules. I was just checking it out. I have to admit, I like the alternate activation they use. it is much more similar to what I'm used to.
Nice post! I've never played but I always wanted to try Horus Heresy battles with this game. I couldn't quite follow the 3d Printer companies you mention. Could you suggest a 3d miniature maker who currently makes the Imperial & Space Marine ships. Thank you!!!
As I am watching this... I am printing up the last dozen escorts for my third 2500 point fleet in the space of two weeks. Total cost... in materials... 2 bottles of resin at around $33.00 a bottle.
Towards the end of the video you make the point that people can purchase a whole fleet very inexpensively through 3d printing services. I'll add that Ork fleets are very friendly to scratchbuild and kitbashing. I have a printer, and any failed prints end up converted to Ork salvage, or get slapped on the space hulk model that is a WIP. With some creativity, Ork fleets are extremely cheap to build.
This video leaves a very odd impression, to be honest. You did not like 40k becoming more complex over time, yet you praise BFG for being more complex than both 40k and AoS. You praise the fact that the game is in the hands of the fans, that there are a lot of homebrew stuff, yet you state yourself in your homebrew examples a lot of issues with homebrew, to quote, wishlisting, weakness removal, destruction of balance, change of mechanics that works only for two factions in the whole game. No updates to the rules can be both a blessing and a curse, same true for constant update support. If there is something broken in the game and it is not fixed -- it will just stay broken forever. And how can you be sure that the game is in decent hands is it's in the hands of the fans considering how you show examples of fans just removing weaknesses of ships and factions? Game design is not as easy as it seems at first, it's quite a complicated process a lot of the homebrew stuff just bypass essentially. You point out that BFG is very cheap to get into thanks to 3d-printng, but there are lots and lots of proxy miniatures for 40k and AoS games, so if you wish, you can easily get Warhammer pretty cheap as well. And I'd argue about designs, there are ship designs established in the lore. A lot of 3d-print offers differ significantly from the original designs. If you like those more -- totally fine, but it's not quite the same for others than the originals. Painting-wise while there are indeed some beautifully painted ships out there, BFG is quite limited due to scale and nature of models painting-wise compared to the mainline GW games where you have a wider variety of miniatures from Conan-like barbarians to tanks to dragons to rotting Nurgle followers to armoured Space Marines. And while 3d-printing is cheaper, it's not for everyone. Home printing is hobby in itself, not everyone is willing to get a printer. While you can order prints from 3d-printing services, there still may be quality issues, much more so than with mass manufactured plastic kits. And lets be honest, plastic is way easier material to work with than resin, especially for the newcomers, and is sturdier too. And less toxic as well. And why GW support for the game would be bad? GW support means new quality miniatures in plastic that are more approachable by the newbies, as well as the media support so more people are getting interested and join the BFG community. You don't necessarily have to play with the new rules, nobody is taking the older editions from you (same with the 40k as well, if you don't like newer editions, you easily can play older ones with your friends and have great time instead of dropping the game and blaming GW for bad rules writing). I know there is a dedicated loyal BFG community out there, and it's great, the game totally deserves more attention. But unfortunately it can't compete with other GW games at all (as well as non-GW). And that can be really off-putting for a lot of people, since you either have to enlist your friends in the Navy or find some local groups. And for some people it's hard to find 40k gaming groups in their area, and finding BFG players is way, way harder. Speaking about rules, you say about Space Marines being OP and stuff. You say you played around 2007-2010. So 5th Edition. It's like one of the only few moments Space Marines were OP (the notorious Matt Ward codex, as well as a short-lived Iron Hands reign of power in a few months of the late 8th edition), most of the time Marines are mediocre at best. You were playing Tau you say, and those were like top 2 armies of the 7th along with the Eldar (like literally some of the most powerful stuff in the game was allied Eldar Scatterbikes with Tau Riptide Wing), and they were quite strong in 8th as well. You say about power creep, and yes, it is a thing unfortunately. But then you say BFG is great because people have to adapt to deal with things, find strategies, etc. Same with playing against powerful factions (minus some fringe cases where the power disparity is just too big, there were situations in some editions like that, but then again it's like playing with a weakly built fleet against a powerful list). To be fair, since your video was released a year ago, the 10th edition was not out yet. But right now 40k has the best balance in years. And your depiction of AoS is just ridiculously wrong and clearly based on the very early days of the 1st edition where there were some wacky rules, sure, it wasn't a great game back then. But AoS is approaching its 4th Edition next summer. It's a totally different game from what you are describing. It's better to do at least some kind of a research before dumping on something. Not to mention the fact that while yes, some people love crunchy rulesets and complex systems, "complex and crunchy" doesn't necessarily means "strategic, sun and engaging". I'm not dumping on BFG, I actually quite like the rules. But in general, if the game is not complex or doesn't have particularly crunchy set of rules, it doesn't mean it's a bad game. You don't need pages upon pages of special rules for a good game. Chess is a fun and strategic game, yet it doesn't have a 300 pages rulebook. It's fine if you like a more rules-heavy games, it just doesn't make them superior to simpler games. It is great you are supporting BFG and have enthusiasm for the game. It's just kinda sad that your reasons for why people should play BFG is "because I like it more than all those other games that are total garbage". Well, it's your opinion, sure. But it's hardly a reason people should play BFG. Don't breed the "my game is superior" approach in the community, that's exactly what plagues the Warhammer Fantasy community and why some people are actually hesitant about getting into the Old World or FB. We all play tabletop wargames, we share one hobby, no need to be dismissive about what other fellow hobbyists like. Show what you love about the game, not what you hate about other systems or the company. Have a nice day!
he is praising bfg for having a complexity in play not in its rules. 40k on the other hand has rules bloat with a million stratagems , special rules and auras stacked on top of eachother but ultimately very little complexity in the way you use the bloated rules because depending on the current meta there are maybe 1 or 2 combinations you use EVERY SINGLE TIME with little to no variance or actual strategical "depth". in bfg on the other hand has a ruleset that is relatively easy to learn with just a few special faction rules but a vastly greater strategical depth on how to apply those rules and tactics depending on your specific fleet, the positioning on the board and the board itself. hiding 9 copys of the same dark eldar vehicles behind a rock or ruin just to whipe your enemy off the board on turn 2 with 5 stratagems and 5 auras stacked on top is what 40k has become over the years and while the rules to pull this off are "complex" its neither fun nor varied in its practical application. on the matter of pricing you are comparing apples to oranges here. 40k has a vastly higher model count than bfg meaning even with proxy minis and aftermarket you are looking at hundreds of dollars for a single 2000p army. even if you buy resin proxys for bfg instead of the significantly cheaper printed ones you are looking at 80-120$ at most for a standard tournament sized fleet. im not entirely sure what your argument about some 3d models differing significantly from the old gw designs is supposed to mean here because there are almost EXACT replicas including direct scans of old BFG models available FOR FREE and even with paid models most designers have faithful recreations of the gw style of ships in their portfolio. you are making a moot point here by complaining about things that arent really an issue. as for the question about gw support, it would be bad because gw doesnt care one bit about lore, the community or balancing the rules, they care about shareprice and selling as much minis as they can for the most inflated prices possible and if that means ruining the balance of the game by making new models and new factions absolutely broken and op to sell them better they will be doing just that as could be observed with the votan desaster.
I've been wanting to get into BFG since it came out in 1999; I ordered some ships a week ago finally
Maybe you should make a video with very specific steps of how to start to play in 2022. For example, Step 1 download the rulebooks here, then step 2 go to this site to buy the minis, then buy paints here, then....you know what I mean.
Otherwise this was a very useful video to learn that there are still people out there playing this. I am from a country when none of these things were available and I could not buy them. This is why I feel a gap with both battle fleet gothic and with Space Hulk. Those two games I really want to play.
3D printer my friend
BFG is so much fun.
All the rules can be learned in 2-3 mini games of ~500 pts.
Great Scenarios & Scenery.
I am waiting for the first batch of 3D-printed ships. Thank for the video, this enthusiasm means a lot to a new player. 🎉
Something to consider for this type of video - it's better to say why you like BFG than to dump on other games. This video takes a lot of shots at 40k, AoS, and even the BFG video games. And if someone is coming to this video because they play 40k and are interested in BFG, or they played Armada and are interested that could turn them off the game. I think you make a lot of good points on the advantages of BFG, but focus more on those and less on what you dislike about other games.
Saw the number of subs at 999 and with my OCD suddenly acting up I just had to press that subscribe button. So congrats on reaching your 1000 subscribers.
THANK YOUUUUU!!!
My absolute favorite GW game. It became a little clunky with the force escalation by the time Necrons came out but it was damn sweet up to that point. The original four forces of Imperial, Chaos, Ork, and Eldar were well balanced and played very differently with Imperial and Chaos the most similar.
I left 40k in 3rd edition but would dive back into BFG if it came back and they didn't obsolete everything from the past.
I played 1 game of this years ago with my mates models and loved it so I printed myself a necron fleet over the last couple weeks
The alternating shooting phase idea is interesting. Does one entire team fire and then the other team fires? Or does it alternate per ship? Ive seen games put a counter on every ship, and have teams alternate "activating" (by removing the counter) 1 ship at a time, to move/shoot until all the counters are gone. I've also seen fleet games do simultaneous shooting phases as well, with damage calculated after so that everyone gets a chance to shoot, even if they end up dying that turn. Not sure which system is truly the best
Great Question.
Typically one turn is divided into each player having a command phase, move, attack, and cleanup phase.
In space: everything moves.(cept planets, they go boom!)
Blast markers are placed for successful hits v armor, and d6 blast markers are removed during the cleanup phase.
The issue being: The active player's ship (escort/capital) that engages first, and successfully hits, will have their dmg resolve first. Basically "whoever goes first wins." and fleet movements of some races shouldn't be as coordinated as play allows.
In *alternating fire*, when an active player's ship moves & attacks, the defending ship (if it survives) is allowed to make a command action: return fire w/ modifiers; or
roll to "lock on" until end of next attack phase; or
Load Ordinance; or
Take evasive maneuvers (move half speed & turn action, no attack next turn);
or "Brace for Impact"
This allows for more realistic combat engagements between ships/squads as salvos & volleys can be resolved, with the only drawback being defensive player gets to take a free attack or make a command roll other than "brace for impact".
I had not heard of the 2020 rules. I was just checking it out. I have to admit, I like the alternate activation they use. it is much more similar to what I'm used to.
Took your advice, got a drink. I also took on the game in 1999. I pick it up and play it every year.
Nice post! I've never played but I always wanted to try Horus Heresy battles with this game.
I couldn't quite follow the 3d Printer companies you mention. Could you suggest a 3d miniature maker who currently makes the Imperial & Space Marine ships. Thank you!!!
As I am watching this... I am printing up the last dozen escorts for my third 2500 point fleet in the space of two weeks. Total cost... in materials... 2 bottles of resin at around $33.00 a bottle.
Towards the end of the video you make the point that people can purchase a whole fleet very inexpensively through 3d printing services.
I'll add that Ork fleets are very friendly to scratchbuild and kitbashing. I have a printer, and any failed prints end up converted to Ork salvage, or get slapped on the space hulk model that is a WIP.
With some creativity, Ork fleets are extremely cheap to build.
Yo but where is that sick cruiser stl from.
Soulforge Studios
Where do you get these models
Where can you get the rules now?
Join the discord server, everything you need is there discord.gg/smQv87Z5Va
This video leaves a very odd impression, to be honest. You did not like 40k becoming more complex over time, yet you praise BFG for being more complex than both 40k and AoS. You praise the fact that the game is in the hands of the fans, that there are a lot of homebrew stuff, yet you state yourself in your homebrew examples a lot of issues with homebrew, to quote, wishlisting, weakness removal, destruction of balance, change of mechanics that works only for two factions in the whole game.
No updates to the rules can be both a blessing and a curse, same true for constant update support. If there is something broken in the game and it is not fixed -- it will just stay broken forever. And how can you be sure that the game is in decent hands is it's in the hands of the fans considering how you show examples of fans just removing weaknesses of ships and factions? Game design is not as easy as it seems at first, it's quite a complicated process a lot of the homebrew stuff just bypass essentially.
You point out that BFG is very cheap to get into thanks to 3d-printng, but there are lots and lots of proxy miniatures for 40k and AoS games, so if you wish, you can easily get Warhammer pretty cheap as well. And I'd argue about designs, there are ship designs established in the lore. A lot of 3d-print offers differ significantly from the original designs. If you like those more -- totally fine, but it's not quite the same for others than the originals. Painting-wise while there are indeed some beautifully painted ships out there, BFG is quite limited due to scale and nature of models painting-wise compared to the mainline GW games where you have a wider variety of miniatures from Conan-like barbarians to tanks to dragons to rotting Nurgle followers to armoured Space Marines.
And while 3d-printing is cheaper, it's not for everyone. Home printing is hobby in itself, not everyone is willing to get a printer. While you can order prints from 3d-printing services, there still may be quality issues, much more so than with mass manufactured plastic kits. And lets be honest, plastic is way easier material to work with than resin, especially for the newcomers, and is sturdier too. And less toxic as well. And why GW support for the game would be bad? GW support means new quality miniatures in plastic that are more approachable by the newbies, as well as the media support so more people are getting interested and join the BFG community. You don't necessarily have to play with the new rules, nobody is taking the older editions from you (same with the 40k as well, if you don't like newer editions, you easily can play older ones with your friends and have great time instead of dropping the game and blaming GW for bad rules writing).
I know there is a dedicated loyal BFG community out there, and it's great, the game totally deserves more attention. But unfortunately it can't compete with other GW games at all (as well as non-GW). And that can be really off-putting for a lot of people, since you either have to enlist your friends in the Navy or find some local groups. And for some people it's hard to find 40k gaming groups in their area, and finding BFG players is way, way harder.
Speaking about rules, you say about Space Marines being OP and stuff. You say you played around 2007-2010. So 5th Edition. It's like one of the only few moments Space Marines were OP (the notorious Matt Ward codex, as well as a short-lived Iron Hands reign of power in a few months of the late 8th edition), most of the time Marines are mediocre at best. You were playing Tau you say, and those were like top 2 armies of the 7th along with the Eldar (like literally some of the most powerful stuff in the game was allied Eldar Scatterbikes with Tau Riptide Wing), and they were quite strong in 8th as well. You say about power creep, and yes, it is a thing unfortunately. But then you say BFG is great because people have to adapt to deal with things, find strategies, etc. Same with playing against powerful factions (minus some fringe cases where the power disparity is just too big, there were situations in some editions like that, but then again it's like playing with a weakly built fleet against a powerful list). To be fair, since your video was released a year ago, the 10th edition was not out yet. But right now 40k has the best balance in years. And your depiction of AoS is just ridiculously wrong and clearly based on the very early days of the 1st edition where there were some wacky rules, sure, it wasn't a great game back then. But AoS is approaching its 4th Edition next summer. It's a totally different game from what you are describing. It's better to do at least some kind of a research before dumping on something.
Not to mention the fact that while yes, some people love crunchy rulesets and complex systems, "complex and crunchy" doesn't necessarily means "strategic, sun and engaging". I'm not dumping on BFG, I actually quite like the rules. But in general, if the game is not complex or doesn't have particularly crunchy set of rules, it doesn't mean it's a bad game. You don't need pages upon pages of special rules for a good game. Chess is a fun and strategic game, yet it doesn't have a 300 pages rulebook. It's fine if you like a more rules-heavy games, it just doesn't make them superior to simpler games.
It is great you are supporting BFG and have enthusiasm for the game. It's just kinda sad that your reasons for why people should play BFG is "because I like it more than all those other games that are total garbage". Well, it's your opinion, sure. But it's hardly a reason people should play BFG. Don't breed the "my game is superior" approach in the community, that's exactly what plagues the Warhammer Fantasy community and why some people are actually hesitant about getting into the Old World or FB. We all play tabletop wargames, we share one hobby, no need to be dismissive about what other fellow hobbyists like. Show what you love about the game, not what you hate about other systems or the company.
Have a nice day!
he is praising bfg for having a complexity in play not in its rules. 40k on the other hand has rules bloat with a million stratagems , special rules and auras stacked on top of eachother but ultimately very little complexity in the way you use the bloated rules because depending on the current meta there are maybe 1 or 2 combinations you use EVERY SINGLE TIME with little to no variance or actual strategical "depth". in bfg on the other hand has a ruleset that is relatively easy to learn with just a few special faction rules but a vastly greater strategical depth on how to apply those rules and tactics depending on your specific fleet, the positioning on the board and the board itself. hiding 9 copys of the same dark eldar vehicles behind a rock or ruin just to whipe your enemy off the board on turn 2 with 5 stratagems and 5 auras stacked on top is what 40k has become over the years and while the rules to pull this off are "complex" its neither fun nor varied in its practical application.
on the matter of pricing you are comparing apples to oranges here. 40k has a vastly higher model count than bfg meaning even with proxy minis and aftermarket you are looking at hundreds of dollars for a single 2000p army.
even if you buy resin proxys for bfg instead of the significantly cheaper printed ones you are looking at 80-120$ at most for a standard tournament sized fleet.
im not entirely sure what your argument about some 3d models differing significantly from the old gw designs is supposed to mean here because there are almost EXACT replicas including direct scans of old BFG models available FOR FREE and even with paid models most designers have faithful recreations of the gw style of ships in their portfolio. you are making a moot point here by complaining about things that arent really an issue.
as for the question about gw support, it would be bad because gw doesnt care one bit about lore, the community or balancing the rules, they care about shareprice and selling as much minis as they can for the most inflated prices possible and if that means ruining the balance of the game by making new models and new factions absolutely broken and op to sell them better they will be doing just that as could be observed with the votan desaster.