Here in the UK it would've cost 3-4 times the price, been 2 hours late & you would probably have to stand up all the way because you couldn't get a seat.
Apart from single wheel boogie, Talgo trains can adapt to different gauges at high speed, which is not least. Problems give solutions, and with attitude and creativity is best for improvements to come one after another
The pressure on Renfe to offer more capacity must have been enormous in order to do such a stupidity with downgrading the first class and even getting a 2+3 into a European network. I use Renfe often and most of the time, trains are full. Totally full. So, I understand why they did it, but good stuff it is NOT. And is becoming more and more expensive too...
They really need to invest in double-decker trains and also double compositions (two trains forming one by attaching nose-to-nose). Combining the two gave the E4 Shinkansen something like 1600 seats, even without the 2+3 of those trains you'd still get well over 1000 seats per train.
@@Blaze6108 From what I could see, on all new stations the platforms are very long and would probably accommodate double compositions easily. I hope they are thinking about that too...
i just don’t get why they named this “AVE” since it’s clearly an Alvia service. 3+2 seatings… what in the world? that’s for Avlo, not AVE… Renfe once again, profit over user. they saw Avlo was doing really good and decided to charge more money naming it AVE, while offering an Avlo experience: renfe clearly wins. not only that, AVE has been always a standard and not iberian gauge service mainly beacuse of that: iberian gauge is used by suburban railway cercanías and they are always late or irregular, making “AVE” iberian gauge service (aka Alvia, but don’t say this out loud) run on delays as well. They really should name that “Alvia low-cost” and wait for the proper construction of standard railways and put good and real AVE trains exclusively on standard gauge. edit: not to mention the trashy seats. the very first AVE trains had second class seats more confortable than first class avril trains. it’s just a downgrade no matter where you see it. i am in favor of making second class a first class so all passengers have the same good quality seats and only one fare, but not viceversa, it’s not fair for any user to make the first class as bad as a second one, cause in that case, the should ‘t be a first class fare, cause you pay more for what? that ain’t no comfort… if there’s a downgrade in first class, prices should be the same as second class. i think avril is just a moneymaker for renfe. but i guess consequences are starting to arise gradually… (an avril got stuck in a tunnel for 2 hours without electricity nor ventilation and passengers started to break the windows with the emergency hammers so they could ventilate the inside… it’s surreal)
Hola soy de Buenos Aires/Argentina, en mi pais si el tren se atraza y vas a reclamar algo, lo unico que podes recibir es una disculpa, si se te ocurre seguir quejandote una patada en el traste. Esto ultimo vale para todo tipo de trasporte terrestre. Muy bueno el video.
I just don't understand why companies deliberately ignore the underlying problems and use short-term 'solutions' that will cause even more problems in the future...
If you were an engineer, you would ask yourself this kind of reasoning: The Talgo System is based on this principle: Thanks to its 30% lower weight compared to a conventional train and less wear, the Talgo technology of self-guided wheels that adapt to the track layout and limit wear, Acronym Talgo: Tren Articulado Ligero (Goicoechea) (Oriol), Light Articulated Train with Self-Guided Wheel by the engineer, designer Alejandro (Goicoechea), financed and developed by José Luis (Oriol) Which ensures a completely flat floor at platform height, as shown in this superb video.
@@eurocopter2fred that's all nice to consider in theory, but in practice it's a noisy bumpy train with poor ride quality, and so many of their trains are known for having issues. So as much as you're fascinated as an engineer, for the users it's a poor experience. I won't blame Talgo for the seating configuration as that's down to the specs given by Renfe.
@@NonstopEurotrip Haha seriously I’ve gone out of my way to get on one of these on the Avlo instead of taking the S103 AVE to see what it’s all about I look forward to it
The Chamartín station is going to change a lot, they are going to bury the entire track beach, they are going to build a giant park on it, and the entire station is going to change completely. It is one of the largest megaprojects of this type in Europe. As for the train, think that it is the first version of something completely new. Talgo has apparently had many problems with this new composition. Give them time. It is not easy to make a train with variable gauge change and approved for those speeds, etc. There is nothing and no one that can do something like that in the world.
The challenge for Spain was either they convert to standard gauge or find a way to convert the wheels if they wanted trains to run outside Spain. The talgo ran from Paris to Barcelona for many years with gauge changing at the boarder. They just need to re-invent the gauge changer to handle bo-bo wheel formations which may not be as easy as they would wish.
As for the title "Europe's worst", let's not forget that the comparison is between high-speed trains. Spain has the densest high-speed network in the world and, therefore, a very high average quality standard. If not, compare it with the average standard of other countries, the United Kingdom, France, Italy, Hungary, Poland or whatever you choose.
@@NonstopEurotriphis Spanish person here who has traveled quite a bit in spain, either on Bus, train, airplane etc. Also studying engineering and a bit of an engineering nerd and railway enthusiast. So here is the explanation, firstly these trains where introduced in both Ave and Avlo services to increase frequency, flexibility and reduce ticket prices, they are faster and can operate at high speeds in both standard and Iberian gauge which most other trains either haven’t or have done so with less capability to the new Avril train sets. Now since they are trying to increase capacity, without overcrowding the railway traffic that happens at a daily basis, making them have a higher seating capacity alowes this without having to drown the tracks in trains, and to achieve this they had to use cheaper seats, since the previous seats available are quite pricy and take up far more space. Another thing I want to clear up, although high speed might have been seen as a “luxury service” in the past and people now a days think that when hearing about AVE, most it not all local people in Spain see it as just an ordinary railway service, there isn’t anything luxurious about it besides the price tag and getting to destination in record time. Back in the day where riding on a talgo train was seen as a “ luxurious thing” now a days it’s seen in the same way as commercial air travel, just another way to get from point A to point B in the shortest time possible. Although it is true that AVE is the flagship service of the Spanish railway network, it is mostly due to the fact that it is a high speed network, not cause it was advertised as an incredibly luxurious experience, perhaps when it first opened in the early 2000s but definitely not nowadays. As for the breakdowns, this is, as wierd as it might sound, a natural occurrence when dealing with new pieces of equipment. Let just state quickly, that these trains are the first ones that taglo has designed and produced locally without the aid of other companies, as such teething issues are only natural to show up, I mean the Renfe series 350 wasn’t exactly the greatest example of reliability when it first entered service, they broke down, needed to the worked on and a few things changed, but now a days there are some of the most reliable high speed trains in service, and mind you Alstorm helped with the power units on those. So considering the fact that these are Talgos first proper attempt at a domestic high speed train, it is actually not that bad. Ive read a few of the articles regarding the breakdown and besides a few exceptions most are what you’d expect from a new piece of equipment. This isn’t to say that some of the points you have brought up aren’t valid, just that perhaps they are not as horrible as you might have expected, and as time goes on some of these might be fixed. Also in my experience the rides are not as bumpy and noisy as you say, maybe it’s just me but I don’t really get bothered that much by it, at least not as much as that of an airplane. I would go on to explain for the main reason for the trains delayed service but Ive rambled long enough.
It's obvious the 106 in AVE service needs improvement, it's also true this is the only high speed train capable of circulating in high speed in both international & Iberian gauge. I think if Talgo solves the problems, the 106 will be considered as good as the 103 or 112 AVE series. Cheers.
@@NonstopEurotrip Los asientos los elige el cliente y no el fabricante. Además, se pueden orientar casi todos en el servicio de la marcha. Y no son en absoluto incómodos.
Thanks! More or less what I experienced. Very noisy and uncomfortable train. The seats are bad and because of the 2 x2 layout in even the « highest » class, I felt even more confined. Luckily, I do not foresee any coming trips to Galicia. Your Spanish was not bad at all. Just two tips. The letter V is never pronounced as it would be in English. Best to turn it into a B. Valladolid is then Bayadolid. Spanish CH is never French CH, but like English CH. As in King Charles. Not the softer SH as in shoot or Olympic swimming in shit. You couldn’t get it easier as an English speaker.
- Just a note: Not all Renfe 106 Series are capable of gauge changing. - I am from Spain and I have to say that the Spanish were very proud of our TAV, however, in the last 3 years it has become a disaster, the Spanish AVE trains were the most punctual in Europe and the trains of the 103, 112 and 130 series give an exceptional service, now the new trains and service is the oposite. - The 106 series has been a setback and monumental failure, we will see how it ends but there are not very good views for the future. - I was against these trains from the beginning and I think the best option would have been what was done with Saudi Arabia, a modernisation of the Talgo 350 or Renfe 112 series.
@@NonstopEurotrip There is a French private operator (Kevin speed, the name alone is goofy) that bought a dozen of these trains for operation in the Western part of France. Sounds super promising 🙂...
This train has a gauge change mechanism and it uses it on this route. One of the disadvantages of this system is that it is more difficult to make the train not vibrate, since it is more difficult to mount the complicated damping system. I am not trying to justify Talgo with this, it is simply for informational purposes.
It seems obvious that the gauge change affects the unsprung weight. Spain needs to make up its mind what gauge they use, or add an extra rail for a dual gauge track where needed.
Just to point out: I very much love your details and information about trains and especially the station cities the train stops at… like Zamora there… well well done !😊
Para todos los ignorantes que comentan: Los nuevos trenes Talgo 106 tienen los vagones más anchos del mercado, y un interior optimizado para mayor anchura, lo cual permite colocar 5 asientos DE LA MISMA ANCHURA que los 4 en otros trenes. Igualmente se pueden colocar 4 en primera clase CON EL MISMO ESPACIO que los 3 en otros trenes. SOBRE LAS RUEDAS INDEPENDIENTES: Poner dos ruedas en lugar de una es necesario para reducir los vaches y vibraciones en los trenes que tienden a inclinarse en las curvas por la fuerza centrífuga, pero eso no les ocurre a los Talgo. En los trenes que no son Talgo el centro de gravedad está siempre POR ENCIMA de las suspensiones, lo que provoca inclinación hacia fuera. Para compensarlo hay que endurecer las suspensiones o colocar MÁS RUEDAS, que duplican la fuerza de la suspensión. En los trenes Talgo, POR SER TAN BAJOS, las suspensiones se colocan POR ENCIMA O A LA ALTURA del centro de gravedad, lo que ELIMINA la inclinación (o incluso produce inclinación negativa hacia el interior, que se llama pendulación natural). Al eliminar la inclinación por fuerza centrífuga se pueden instalar suspensiones más suaves, eso es por lo que estos trenes son tan confortables, y a velocidades por debajo de 200 parece que no se mueven. LOS TRENES TALGO, CON UN SOLO EJE SON MÁS SUAVES QUE OTROS CON DOS. BASTA YA DE DIFAMAR Y DIFUNDIR MENTIRAS. Lógicamente a 300 a veces hay vibraciones, PASA CON TODOS LOS TRENES DEL MUNDO, Y DEPENDE MÁS DE LAS VÍAS DEL TRAZADO, FUNDAMENTALMENTE.
Es grosero empezar defendiendo algo cuando se empieza “para todos lis ignorantes” esto es UA-cam y cada uno da su opinión. Este canal es bastante respetuoso en su opinión. Muchos son de fuera de España y siempre hay diferencias culturales. Talgo está trabajando en una revisión del Avril, y tiene futuros contratos con compañías francesas, que no le gustaría perder. La mayoría de opiniones son desde la perspectiva que se espera un producto con el mejor standard. Se entiende que las vías que se construyen también tienen unos estándares en toda Europa. Si no es así hay algo que no esta bien aquí. El problema no solo sería Talgo sino Adif también. Todos los amantes del ferrocarril desearían que el producto Talgo Avril estuviera al nivel, no importa toda la mercadotecnia que hay detrás de Talgo, si uno se monta y no va confortable, tan simple cómo eso. El Ave en España debe tener el mas alto Standard sea el tren que sea.
It's really good that Indian Railways decided to build it's own VB EMU trains instead of purchasing talgo coaches.. VB sleeper would be huge success if they increase the track speed to it's design speed & if somehow upgrade track to Semi High speed 220 Km/h capable then would be real value for money..
That first background song slaps though Also love how Renfe just loves to screw their uses over any chance they get to. And then they cry when people prefer to fly or take a bus
This train does look like a 21 century product. On the positive side, these issues are not so insurmountable. There is technology out there to address most of the problems. Like most new products, there can be a "teething season" until it gets perfected..
Will be interesting to see how DB get on with their new Talgos , for me the Talgo single axle concept is never going to compare well on ride quality with traditional bogie designs whether articulated or not.
The bad riding quality might also be intensified by the tracks. Riding the ICE 3 from Cologne to Frankfurt feels like hovering. However, riding on basically the same train (Velaro E) between Madrid and Barcelona feels bumpy.
The track construction is different. In Germany high speed tracks are laid on concrete plates while in Spain ballast is used. That makes some difference. Spain had some issues when they tried running above 300Km/h because the rocks were causing damage to the train.
@@NonstopEurotrip I partially disagree. You notice the track irregularities much more in low-floor units (like whichever by Talgo) than in higher-floor units (like Siemens Velaro or CAF units)
The introduction of the Talgo trains on Pacific Northwest increased ridership substantially and were loved. After the derailment where the train behaved better than conventional train, during the public NTSB hearing, politicians demanded these "imported" trains be widthdrawn from service. Because those were modern light trains with modern bogies, they did not fit FRA rules requiring trains be limited heavy 1950s technology and the Talgos were granted an exemption from these. (in a 2018 revision of rules, FRA admitted its rules had prevented the USA from getting modern trains and has since relaxed rules but too late for Talgo). Talgo appealed the decision to require the trains be retired which was not technical and purely political. Currently, the trains are operated with commuter-train quality Horizon coaches (Comets with Amtrak seats) and are very disliked. (The second batch of Talgos were built heavy to FRA standards in the USA but that project went sour when half the order was cancelled by the Wisconsin DOT).
Great trip. The current train shape feels like TGV POS, but yeah like other channel, the ride quality is downgrade, and the seat configuration remind me about most affordable economy train in my country, the difference are this isn't bay seating and it's real seat/chair, not padded bench.
They are supposed to be used for the AVLO low-cost high speed offering from Renfe. But with this botch job, iryo will be more than happy to have Hitachi pump out a couple more ETR1000 and profit from Renfe's fall-out.
Certainly look a lot better than their duck-like predecessors (and also Velaro and ICE 4, and the new Acela Liberty (and there's one for delays entering service 🙄), but shame they decided to go for the Ryanair configuration in standard class. Still, it's certainly a more balanced review than "WORST TRAIN EVER???!!?!?!"
Thanks, very instructive and helpful for planning. Just a thought... It might be more personal/individual to have the intro with yourself in the picture...like your friend "Superalbs Travel"or Geoff Marshall
The body width of the Talgo Avril is 3200mm and 3-2 seating configuration is comfortable enough. 3-2 seating also used on Russian/Finnish gauge trainsets if bodywidth of 3150-3400 is used. It think it's a good way for the operators to squeeze out the most of it.
I love the looks of this train, and it's capabilities. However, it's not as good as the older Talgo AVE trains, but im sure they can fix it. This train has a lot of potential and, I hope it'll be of great use. Though what bothers me a lot on Talgo trains is their single axle configuration. Cheaper, but impacts passenger comfort.
The audio provided of the supposedly noisy bumps did not work, as I thought it sounded pretty smooth and also the camera did not shake either. So I just wonder how the narrator got a headache, as it was also not detectable on the broad gauge section either
There is currently heavy pressure from the government for Talgo to fix their trains, and it seems like *allegedly*, a big reason for their flaws is that the trainsets have so much new technologies and building techniques that a lot of software is needed to glue them together, and the software seems to be quite lacking. Would you be open to revisit these trainsets in a few years, to compare them?
I don't think that 3+2 seating in itself is all that terrible. It works well in the Shinkansen in Japan, and is perfectly comfortable. Okay, the shinkansen is a little bit wider than the Class 106, but only enough for 3 extra centimeters per person, but I think the Shinkansen have wider hallways too so the seats are really close to the same width. The real problem with the 106 is the shaking and the noise. Also, while the leg space seemed decent in the video, it's not quite as much as in the Shinkansen, which have a lot of leg space to make up for the 3+2 seating layout (and to permit rotating the seats around).
Beautiful video. Which is high speed train in Europe? And which train did you enjoyed the most in Europe? Which Railcard is valid in Europe for seniors? Thank you
Anulador alo expuesto en tu reportaje que cuentan con un vagón silencio , donde el móvil está limitado su uso y se puede dormir , un saludo desde España y añadir que se está estudiando ya la versión futura de este tren para corregir las deficiencias de la marcha y solucionar los ya existentes en el modelo de tren actual , de hecho el gobierno ha protestado oficialmente y pedirá indemnizaciones .. los retrasos horario muchos son debido a la remodelación de la estación de Chamartín madrid , y los asientos es cierto que no son los mejores 😅
Heh. All of you train review youtubers posting a video on this train within the same week xD And all of you going north too. Why didn't y'all meet up :D
2+2 seating is not first class in Europe and USA. MARC commuters between DC and Baltimore complained about the middle seat on the 3-person bench so the new double deckers went 2+2.
If the train is absolutely wide enough, 2+2 is a feasible option, like the newest SJ-high speed train on this channel. Clearly this train is not wide enough though.
@@olasola1013 Sorry, no. The carriages are wider, but not as wide as an extra seat. DB and DSB decided against it for good reason. Renfe decided to take their low-cost approach and apply it to all fare classes. Add to this that the seats have already been nicknamed "butablas" (portmanteau of "butaca" and "tabla"; seat and board), they're essentially selling off tighter spaced ironing boards as a first class product.
There's hoping. To begin with, Talgo will only be manufacturing the carriages, which is their business and where they have experience in. It also won't be a rush job through service-worthiness approvals (not since those civil servants from the EBA got manslaughter charges for approving a train with faulty doors that opened mid-journey over a decade ago). This whole class 106 fiasco is a tax-payer funded R&D programme to extend Talgo's business offering and a rush job to get everything into service on a network starved for rolling stock and politicians starved for good-looking ribbon cutting to distract form other things going on right now. Not that DB is not starved for rolling stock, but they don't have the political motivation to rush things like happened here..
The carriage facilities are very user-friendly, but they are far inferior to the comfort of the train. There are still many areas that need improvement. I look forward to having better trains.
Para todos los que comentan sobre Talgo: Los nuevos trenes Talgo 106 tienen los vagones más anchos del mercado, y un interior optimizado para mayor anchura, lo cual permite colocar 5 asientos DE LA MISMA ANCHURA que los 4 en otros trenes. Igualmente se pueden colocar 4 en primera clase CON EL MISMO ESPACIO que los 3 en otros trenes. SOBRE LAS RUEDAS INDEPENDIENTES: Poner dos ruedas en lugar de una es necesario para reducir los vaches y vibraciones en los trenes que tienden a inclinarse en las curvas por la fuerza centrífuga, pero eso no les ocurre a los Talgo. En los trenes que no son Talgo el centro de gravedad está siempre POR ENCIMA de las suspensiones, lo que provoca inclinación hacia fuera. Para compensarlo hay que endurecer las suspensiones o colocar MÁS RUEDAS, que duplican la fuerza de la suspensión. En los trenes Talgo, POR SER TAN BAJOS, las suspensiones se colocan POR ENCIMA O A LA ALTURA del centro de gravedad, lo que ELIMINA la inclinación (o incluso produce inclinación negativa hacia el interior, que se llama pendulación natural). Al eliminar la inclinación por fuerza centrífuga se pueden instalar suspensiones más suaves, eso es por lo que estos trenes son tan confortables, y a velocidades por debajo de 200 parece que no se mueven. LOS TRENES TALGO, CON UN SOLO EJE SON MÁS SUAVES QUE OTROS CON DOS. BASTA YA DE DIFAMAR Y DIFUNDIR MENTIRAS. Lógicamente a 300 a veces hay vibraciones, PASA CON TODOS LOS TRENES DEL MUNDO, Y DEPENDE MÁS DE LAS VÍAS DEL TRAZADO, FUNDAMENTALMENTE. El nuevo tren de Talgo es excelente como todos los trenes de Talgo. Estos trenes adaptan el giro de sus ejes de forma que las ruedas permanecen siempre tangentes a la via, y los ejes perpendiculares. Esto elimina la tendencia al descarrilamiento de los ejes tradicionales y de los bogies, y permite que los vagones sean mucho más ligeros manteniendo un paso por curva de alta velocidad con completa seguridad. Además, son trenes extremadamente bajos, lo que disminuye el riesgo de vuelco y mejora su velocidad, aparte de ofrecer una accesibilidad sin rival, en la que no hay que subir ni un solo escalón para acceder al tren. Su mayor ligereza permite remontar las subidas y acelerar con mayor facilidad, lo que permite una mayor velocidad media. El confort de los trenes Talgo es excelente, igual o superior al resto de trenes. Esto es algo que el fabricante Talgo mide CIENTÍFICAMENTE y que tiene muy estudiado. En el 106, concretamente, Talgo ha desarrollado e instalado un sistema de suspensión activa electrónica con sensores de vibraciones en cada vagón, de tal manera que las suspensiones se adaptan en tiempo real a las irregularidades de la vía, todo para garantizar el máximo confort. Se podrá decir que no es el tren más suave del mundo pero no que Talgo no haya estudiado científicamente las vibraciones y el confort en un tren de alta velocidad. Yo personalmente he comprobado muchas veces cómo los trenes Talgo, a velocidades por debajo de 200 kmh PARECE QUE ESTÁN PARADOS, porque no se nota nada. Tampoco he tenido nunca ninguna queja sobre los asientos, que siempre me han parecido perfectamente cómodos, y siempre he viajado muy a gusto en ellos y los viajes se me han hecho cortos. Trenes como los Iryo (Frecciarossa ETR 1000) son más ruidosos y tienen igual o más vibraciones. Las vibraciones dependen mucho de las vías y poco de los trenes. El uso de ejes simples y no dobles no aumenta el ruido sino que LO DISMINUYE al haber MENOS RUEDAS PRODUCIENDO RUIDO. LO CIENTÍFICO ES COMPARAR LOS TRENES CIRCULANDO POR LAS MISMAS VÍAS Y A LA MISMA VELOCIDAD Y CON LA MISMA CARGA, porque todo eso afecta a las vibraciones. Comparar trenes arbitrariamente, en líneas diferentes, en trazados diferentes y en vías diferentes, y sin hacer ninguna medición científica es totalmente arbitrario y ridículo. Eso es totalmente SUBJETIVO y NO CIENTÍFICO. Quien quiera afirmar en las redes que algún tren es más ruidoso o que vibra más que otros QUE APORTE PRUEBAS DE MEDICIONES DE DECIBELIOS Y DE ACELERÓMETROS, REALIZADAS SIEMPRE CON LOS MISMOS EQUIPOS, SOBRE EXACTAMENTE LOS MISMOS TRAMOS DE VÍAS, Y EXACTAMENTE A LA MISMA VELOCIDAD, Y CON CARGA SIMILAR. ¡¡QUE APORTE TODAS ESAS PRUEBAS O QUE CALLE PARA SIEMPRE!!
@@NonstopEurotrip Un vídeo muy bonito, pero sigo diciendo lo mismo: Para comparar un tren con otro hay que hacerlo sobre LOS MISMOS RAÍLES Y A LA MISMA VELOCIDAD. Es evidente que ese tren no está en España, sino en China o Japón. En Japón usan plataformas de hormigón armado, generalmente sobre viaductos. Esta es una forma mucho más cara de construir una red de alta velocidad, pero permite trazados EXTREMADAMENTE ESTABLES que no se deforman con el tiempo y que garantizan una precisión y suavidad asombrosas en los trenes. Si quieres viajar con tanta suavidad tienes que pagarlo, construyendo infraestructuras muy caras. De todas formas yo no digo que los Talgo sean los trenes más suaves del mundo, pero tampoco son los peores.
Que sí, que sí, que trenes de los que la mitad está inservible en el depósito, y que la otra mitad le peta el ayer el disyuntor, ayer el pantógrafo, mañana las puertas y pasado el sistema informático que han tenido que parchar 3 veces es "excelente"... y estupendo y divino de la muerte!!!!!
Train cars with a 3+2 seating arrangement are 25cm wider than cars with a 2+2 seating arrangement. Due to the width, they have to be shorter (therefore more wheels and more noise), allowing them to pass through curves without hitting any poles. This solution allows for more passengers per ride, lower ticket prices but less comfort. I think you have missed this design decision in your conclusion.
I am spanish and a Talgo fan. However I have to say, this train is a DISASTER. And the problem comes from Talgo stopping working with Bombardier, and looking to cut corners both on the new locomotive and on the development of the coaches themselves and offering a ridículously low price on the BID for the new trains that could only be achieved by cutting those corners. The company that made the locomotives has no experience with trains, and these trains are full of software derived problems because they also cut corners developing the control software. On the long run I things they will solve the trains problema but they damage done to the company might end with It being sold as a tecnólogy partner to Magyar wagon and on the long run being made dissapear as a manufacturing name on the trains industry. All because of greed both on the government side and on Talgo side.
It wasn't clear in the video - are the Avril S106s just using dedicated power cars (like Alstom TGVs) or distributed power like Siemens Velaro or Japanese EMUs?
Hey, the old class 102 from Renfe are OK. The ride quality is meh, but not bumpy. And I would also not say that my experience on them was unpleasant. Yes, I totally get why one would say "kill it with fire before it lays eggs!!" about class 106, but for all the deserved bashing Talgo is getting for the current crap they put out on the market, the previous stuff was OK (with room for improvement).
@@NonstopEurotripI think you need to make something like a tier list comparing ride quality. Most of us have ridden 1 or 2 systems, only you can compare global systems.
This raises an even more important question, is Portugal building the new high speed tracks with concrete plates like Germans or with ballast like the Spanish? The issues with ballast are known. The line between Evora and Elvas appears to be ballast from the pictures I've seen, but that wasn't designed for 300Km/h operating speeds. Too many issues with Talgo, I hope a different manufacturer is chosen by the operators.
@@f.g.9466 Interesting point. French TGV lines are all ballast, even the more recent ones. I'm guessing ballast is less expensive than concrete slabs initially, tho I guess it costs a lot in maintenance in the long run. Indeed. Talgo would seem to be a bad choice.
Portugal should consult and buy trains from Germany (Velaro). Those trains have good ride quality. Thankfully, in my country, we're buying trains from Japan (E5 shinkansen). And the tracks are fully concrete. So, it'll be very smooth.
@@NonstopEurotrip What are you talking about? Do you know what you're talking about? CAF did not submit to the public offer because it does not have technology available for those speeds and use lol. They are already having a LOT of problems in Norway for a short-medium distance train. WTF
18.15, looks like the site of the massive Talgo crash? Speed difference between your video and footage are a marked difference. Keep up the good work 👍
I'm going to be frank. I wasn't going to watch this video, but after seeing a comparison between some of the issues of the Talgo Avril and the Top Gear's Caravan Challenge, my curiosity has been piqued
If Deutsche Bahn offered this generois of a refund scheme, they would be bankrupt very quickly :) - Even the current one (25% refund at 60 minutes delay, 50% at 120 minutes) apparently eats up a not insignificant amount of revenue already. And we will get Talgo trains (ICE-L) soon, as well...
I’ve ridden an AVRIL from Chamartín to Alicante-Terminal as an alternative since the train I was about to take had a technical problem. I didn’t have any problem on the AVRIL other than the seats being quite uncomfortable…
@@NonstopEurotrip the seats weren’t fully equal, and the one I were set was the highest quality there. Other companies’ (OUIGO and IRYO) offer much better seats at their lowest prices
No llevo vistos dos minutos del video y ya me escaman un par de cosas. Eso de que por tener menos ruedas el viaje es menos suave, no se de donde lo han sacado, el concepto es algo menos sencillo que el numero de ejes y la suavidad del viaje, y viene de lejos. Y eso de que la estacion de Chamartin esta en el extraradio, pues no se, eso diria mi primo q vive en Bilbao. Miedo me da seguir p' lante 😢
nunca le gusto madrid y habla de la capital con desden...se le nota demasiado,pero como es la ciudad mas importante donde hay mas trenes de alta velocidad en España y de las tops en europa tiene que tragar y salir desde ahi muchas veces...
@@NonstopEurotrip No me voy a poner a polemizar pq la verdad no tengo ni ganas ni tiempo. No me mal interpretes pq no soy un heater ni nada que se le parezca. El hecho de que sea un coche el que tenga un eje y el otro vaya colgado sobre el primero, tiene que ver con que la estructura del vagon culega de la suspensión que en estos trenes se encuentra en la parte superior, lo que hace el efecto péndulo y que la caja del tren sufra mínimas oscilaciones en curva, cosa que hace el viaje mcuho más confortable. Los italianos lo quisieron hacer con los pendolinos , pero obligaba a llevar giroscopios en cada bogie, los cuales se averiaban con facilidad y lo convertian en un sistema muy poco fiable. Esa crítica que le haces al hecho de llavar menos ejes, te diría que cada cosa lleva lo que necesita no lo que parrece que puede necesitar, es precisamente la piedra angular de la tecnologia de Talgo. Y en la periferia de Madrid puede que esté Alcobendas, pero Chamartín está al norte de la ciudad, entre Palza Castilla y el complejo de las torres de la antigua ciudad deportiva del club más grande de todos los tiempos, línea 10 del metro de Madrid. Un saludo.
I haven't tried this train yet, from what i heard talgo's fleet in Saudi Arabia is quite comfy, maybe it's just the rails in Spain that are rough to ride? French company Le Train has bought a fleet of Talgo Avril, I hope I get the opportunity to try it
Are you sure the headache wasn't from the cava? 😂 Surely, the power cars have bogies that can gauge change so why not fit the coaches with them? I know Renfe claim the short length of the carriages enable higher speed running around tighter curves but is it worth it if the ride is so poor? Also high density 3+2 seating is for commuter trains not inter city long distance high speed trains but is it any worse than an economy class airline seat offering?
The whole "one wheel between 2 cars" is the main point of Talgo. They quite literally have nothing else apart from that (CAF already does gauge changing trains as well). They are not going to remove it, they´ll just double down on it as always. 3+2 seating is 100% renfe's fault. They are doing their best to make train travel as disgusting as air travel
@@MocomaminecraftYTOficial But CAF had many problems in the development of OARIS and in fact abandoned it. The only manufacturer in the world that remains is Talgo, in fact no one presented to the public offer (open to all world builders) except this company, nor CAF. So.. I would like to know what you propose. Without imagining things that do not exist or doing fiction economics :) Let's see if you are going to be an Alstom delegate and we did not find out that there was a technological offer from them. (irony)
Have to say that a slightly bumpy ride is not a reason to complain. What do you expect, a feather and an airship? However I like your review's, but do not get too emotional over nothing.
@@NonstopEurotripthe duck bill looked better.speaking of duck billed talgo 350, in the 2000s when china was trying to develop their own indegenious high speed train before giving up and importing foreign train.they created a prototype train called "china star" which weirdly looks like talgo 350 including the duck bill.
@@MattiBlume I guess it has been designed for 380, and it has been tried on commercial rails up to 360. But I am not a specialist, just an amateur on these topics.
I'm sorry that you had to endure both an uncomfortable ride AND the horrible Chamartín station. We've had to deal with it a few times, as the Valencia trains use this rather than Atocha.
Just today, many Renfe workers have redacted and sent a letter containing the 20 (20!) worst problems of the Talgo Avril. Including the seats, bumping, various mistakes on train layout for the crew, etc. These trains are a disaster. I wanted to believe for so long. Even after they started, I tried to believe they would fix them somehow. They are blowing up Renfe's reputation, losing a very high amount of money in refunds and just lost clients. They should never have entered circulation at this stage, and the worst part is that Renfe cannot just return them or get rid of them, they are way too strained in trainsets already. Renfe should ASAP start ordering some more trains though. Probably some old Alvia trainsets, at least they work.
Is that letter available online? I would love to read it please. Not just Renfe, but also Talgo's reputation is being impacted. Are S130 and S730 this noisy as well? There was some expectation in Portugal that these trains could be used in the future to connect high speed in Portugal (Iberian gauge) with longer services into Spain using standard gauge, so this is a big curb to the enthusiasm. I heard rumors that they are already working on a new version of these trains.
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Here in the UK it would've cost 3-4 times the price, been 2 hours late & you would probably have to stand up all the way because you couldn't get a seat.
Full refund then
@@NonstopEurotrip I think the full refund is a good incentive but only works with high-speed rail only tricks
Well, bumpy or not, still better than anything USA has.
That's not difficult 😔
and UK
And England
yeah, because we have these things called a-e-r-o-p-l-a-n-e-s. Just need to get rid off the useless TSA ...
Apart from single wheel boogie, Talgo trains can adapt to different gauges at high speed, which is not least. Problems give solutions, and with attitude and creativity is best for improvements to come one after another
I agree. If they weren't bad solutions.
The pressure on Renfe to offer more capacity must have been enormous in order to do such a stupidity with downgrading the first class and even getting a 2+3 into a European network. I use Renfe often and most of the time, trains are full. Totally full. So, I understand why they did it, but good stuff it is NOT. And is becoming more and more expensive too...
Exactly 💯
They really need to invest in double-decker trains and also double compositions (two trains forming one by attaching nose-to-nose). Combining the two gave the E4 Shinkansen something like 1600 seats, even without the 2+3 of those trains you'd still get well over 1000 seats per train.
@@Blaze6108 From what I could see, on all new stations the platforms are very long and would probably accommodate double compositions easily. I hope they are thinking about that too...
i just don’t get why they named this “AVE” since it’s clearly an Alvia service. 3+2 seatings… what in the world? that’s for Avlo, not AVE… Renfe once again, profit over user. they saw Avlo was doing really good and decided to charge more money naming it AVE, while offering an Avlo experience: renfe clearly wins. not only that, AVE has been always a standard and not iberian gauge service mainly beacuse of that: iberian gauge is used by suburban railway cercanías and they are always late or irregular, making “AVE” iberian gauge service (aka Alvia, but don’t say this out loud) run on delays as well. They really should name that “Alvia low-cost” and wait for the proper construction of standard railways and put good and real AVE trains exclusively on standard gauge.
edit: not to mention the trashy seats. the very first AVE trains had second class seats more confortable than first class avril trains. it’s just a downgrade no matter where you see it. i am in favor of making second class a first class so all passengers have the same good quality seats and only one fare, but not viceversa, it’s not fair for any user to make the first class as bad as a second one, cause in that case, the should ‘t be a first class fare, cause you pay more for what? that ain’t no comfort… if there’s a downgrade in first class, prices should be the same as second class. i think avril is just a moneymaker for renfe. but i guess consequences are starting to arise gradually… (an avril got stuck in a tunnel for 2 hours without electricity nor ventilation and passengers started to break the windows with the emergency hammers so they could ventilate the inside… it’s surreal)
Amen 🙌🏻
Hola soy de Buenos Aires/Argentina, en mi pais si el tren se atraza y vas a reclamar algo, lo unico que podes recibir es una disculpa, si se te ocurre seguir quejandote una patada en el traste. Esto ultimo vale para todo tipo de trasporte terrestre. Muy bueno el video.
😆😆😆
I just don't understand why companies deliberately ignore the underlying problems and use short-term 'solutions' that will cause even more problems in the future...
Amen 🙌🏻
If you were an engineer, you would ask yourself this kind of reasoning: The Talgo System is based on this principle: Thanks to its 30% lower weight compared to a conventional train and less wear, the Talgo technology of self-guided wheels that adapt to the track layout and limit wear, Acronym Talgo: Tren Articulado Ligero (Goicoechea) (Oriol), Light Articulated Train with Self-Guided Wheel by the engineer, designer Alejandro (Goicoechea), financed and developed by José Luis (Oriol) Which ensures a completely flat floor at platform height, as shown in this superb video.
Profits today..... problems are someone else's issue in the future.....
@@eurocopter2fred Ooh this is very interesting.. I should research more on this topic...
@@eurocopter2fred that's all nice to consider in theory, but in practice it's a noisy bumpy train with poor ride quality, and so many of their trains are known for having issues. So as much as you're fascinated as an engineer, for the users it's a poor experience. I won't blame Talgo for the seating configuration as that's down to the specs given by Renfe.
Can’t wait to get on one of these as I love rollercoasters 🎢
😆😆😆
@@NonstopEurotrip Haha seriously I’ve gone out of my way to get on one of these on the Avlo instead of taking the S103 AVE to see what it’s all about I look forward to it
@@ameerali.ouarda RIP ☠️
The Chamartín station is going to change a lot, they are going to bury the entire track beach, they are going to build a giant park on it, and the entire station is going to change completely. It is one of the largest megaprojects of this type in Europe.
As for the train, think that it is the first version of something completely new. Talgo has apparently had many problems with this new composition. Give them time. It is not easy to make a train with variable gauge change and approved for those speeds, etc. There is nothing and no one that can do something like that in the world.
New? They've been making them for 25 years
@@NonstopEurotrip Have you seen the project? Or has your brain basically atrophied a little more from so much vibration? kekw
@@kaekae4010 probably that, and too much cava 😆
Will it be bigger than Atocha?
>one of the largest megaprojects of this type in Europe
A larger sinkhole than Stuttgart21? That's unpossible!
Yewww a new
Nonstop Eurotrip
video.
Yewwwww bro 💕
Love your videos, btw thanks for the subtitles!!
No problem 😊
Galicia's in the North *West* of the country, Nonstop Eurotrip (01:26)
😆
The challenge for Spain was either they convert to standard gauge or find a way to convert the wheels if they wanted trains to run outside Spain. The talgo ran from Paris to Barcelona for many years with gauge changing at the boarder. They just need to re-invent the gauge changer to handle bo-bo wheel formations which may not be as easy as they would wish.
No Talgo high-speed train has never run from Paris to Barcelona
@@NonstopEurotrip he's probably mistaking it for the Madrid-Paris route
@@hibuddy1473 there also isn't one.
@@NonstopEurotrip Not now but there absolutely used to be one. I think it shut down in 2013 or so when the high speed line opened
At some time, Talgo 3 coaches run from Barcelona to Milan and Barcelona to Geneva and Zürich. Night service mostly, changing gauge at Portbou
Amazing video!🙂
Thank you! 😁
Muy buena revisión.
As for the title "Europe's worst", let's not forget that the comparison is between high-speed trains. Spain has the densest high-speed network in the world and, therefore, a very high average quality standard. If not, compare it with the average standard of other countries, the United Kingdom, France, Italy, Hungary, Poland or whatever you choose.
United Kingdom doesnt have high-speed trains.
@@Atreas1845 Exactly.
Why introduce an inherently bad train though? I dont understand
@@NonstopEurotriphis Spanish person here who has traveled quite a bit in spain, either on Bus, train, airplane etc. Also studying engineering and a bit of an engineering nerd and railway enthusiast.
So here is the explanation, firstly these trains where introduced in both Ave and Avlo services to increase frequency, flexibility and reduce ticket prices, they are faster and can operate at high speeds in both standard and Iberian gauge which most other trains either haven’t or have done so with less capability to the new Avril train sets. Now since they are trying to increase capacity, without overcrowding the railway traffic that happens at a daily basis, making them have a higher seating capacity alowes this without having to drown the tracks in trains, and to achieve this they had to use cheaper seats, since the previous seats available are quite pricy and take up far more space.
Another thing I want to clear up, although high speed might have been seen as a “luxury service” in the past and people now a days think that when hearing about AVE, most it not all local people in Spain see it as just an ordinary railway service, there isn’t anything luxurious about it besides the price tag and getting to destination in record time. Back in the day where riding on a talgo train was seen as a “ luxurious thing” now a days it’s seen in the same way as commercial air travel, just another way to get from point A to point B in the shortest time possible. Although it is true that AVE is the flagship service of the Spanish railway network, it is mostly due to the fact that it is a high speed network, not cause it was advertised as an incredibly luxurious experience, perhaps when it first opened in the early 2000s but definitely not nowadays.
As for the breakdowns, this is, as wierd as it might sound, a natural occurrence when dealing with new pieces of equipment. Let just state quickly, that these trains are the first ones that taglo has designed and produced locally without the aid of other companies, as such teething issues are only natural to show up, I mean the Renfe series 350 wasn’t exactly the greatest example of reliability when it first entered service, they broke down, needed to the worked on and a few things changed, but now a days there are some of the most reliable high speed trains in service, and mind you Alstorm helped with the power units on those. So considering the fact that these are Talgos first proper attempt at a domestic high speed train, it is actually not that bad. Ive read a few of the articles regarding the breakdown and besides a few exceptions most are what you’d expect from a new piece of equipment.
This isn’t to say that some of the points you have brought up aren’t valid, just that perhaps they are not as horrible as you might have expected, and as time goes on some of these might be fixed. Also in my experience the rides are not as bumpy and noisy as you say, maybe it’s just me but I don’t really get bothered that much by it, at least not as much as that of an airplane.
I would go on to explain for the main reason for the trains delayed service but Ive rambled long enough.
@@javiermedina9080 This is the take I wanted to see. Up
It's obvious the 106 in AVE service needs improvement, it's also true this is the only high speed train capable of circulating in high speed in both international & Iberian gauge. I think if Talgo solves the problems, the 106 will be considered as good as the 103 or 112 AVE series. Cheers.
If they change the seating too...
@@NonstopEurotrip Los asientos los elige el cliente y no el fabricante. Además, se pueden orientar casi todos en el servicio de la marcha. Y no son en absoluto incómodos.
Thank you mate for this new video clip review - it is no no for me to be on this train trip though with that bonking experience...🤭
Fair enough! 🤣
Spanish trains are very good , RENFE IS not well managed
Hmmm, debatable 😆
If Hungary had highspeed trains like this!😭😭😭
Hungary is slightly too small for 380 km/h
Stop dreaming mate
@@robertab929so why can you ride trains with 300km/h in Austria??
Thanks! More or less what I experienced. Very noisy and uncomfortable train. The seats are bad and because of the 2 x2 layout in even the « highest » class, I felt even more confined. Luckily, I do not foresee any coming trips to Galicia. Your Spanish was not bad at all. Just two tips. The letter V is never pronounced as it would be in English. Best to turn it into a B. Valladolid is then Bayadolid. Spanish CH is never French CH, but like English CH. As in King Charles. Not the softer SH as in shoot or Olympic swimming in shit. You couldn’t get it easier as an English speaker.
Not quite sure what the language lesson was about 👀
- Just a note: Not all Renfe 106 Series are capable of gauge changing.
- I am from Spain and I have to say that the Spanish were very proud of our TAV, however, in the last 3 years it has become a disaster, the Spanish AVE trains were the most punctual in Europe and the trains of the 103, 112 and 130 series give an exceptional service, now the new trains and service is the oposite.
- The 106 series has been a setback and monumental failure, we will see how it ends but there are not very good views for the future.
- I was against these trains from the beginning and I think the best option would have been what was done with Saudi Arabia, a modernisation of the Talgo 350 or Renfe 112 series.
I completely agree 💯
@@NonstopEurotrip There is a French private operator (Kevin speed, the name alone is goofy) that bought a dozen of these trains for operation in the Western part of France. Sounds super promising 🙂...
@@Desi365 fun fact- the order is cancelled
@@Desi365 isn't it Le Train?
@@raphael1446 I think I'm confusing with Le train, yes. That's a very forgettable brand name, LOL.
If I had to do design change. Get ride of Cafe and turn 3x2 seats to 2x2 larger seats 😅
Absolutely 💯😁
Excelente vídeo
Gracias 🙏🏻
This train has a gauge change mechanism and it uses it on this route. One of the disadvantages of this system is that it is more difficult to make the train not vibrate, since it is more difficult to mount the complicated damping system. I am not trying to justify Talgo with this, it is simply for informational purposes.
It seems obvious that the gauge change affects the unsprung weight. Spain needs to make up its mind what gauge they use, or add an extra rail for a dual gauge track where needed.
But the Alvias and CAFs are way better
Just to point out: I very much love your details and information about trains and especially the station cities the train stops at… like Zamora there… well well done !😊
Thank you very much! 👍🏻
Para todos los ignorantes que comentan:
Los nuevos trenes Talgo 106 tienen los vagones más anchos del mercado, y un interior optimizado para mayor anchura, lo cual permite colocar 5 asientos DE LA MISMA ANCHURA que los 4 en otros trenes. Igualmente se pueden colocar 4 en primera clase CON EL MISMO ESPACIO que los 3 en otros trenes.
SOBRE LAS RUEDAS INDEPENDIENTES:
Poner dos ruedas en lugar de una es necesario para reducir los vaches y vibraciones en los trenes que tienden a inclinarse en las curvas por la fuerza centrífuga, pero eso no les ocurre a los Talgo.
En los trenes que no son Talgo el centro de gravedad está siempre POR ENCIMA de las suspensiones, lo que provoca inclinación hacia fuera. Para compensarlo hay que endurecer las suspensiones o colocar MÁS RUEDAS, que duplican la fuerza de la suspensión.
En los trenes Talgo, POR SER TAN BAJOS, las suspensiones se colocan POR ENCIMA O A LA ALTURA del centro de gravedad, lo que ELIMINA la inclinación (o incluso produce inclinación negativa hacia el interior, que se llama pendulación natural).
Al eliminar la inclinación por fuerza centrífuga se pueden instalar suspensiones más suaves, eso es por lo que estos trenes son tan confortables, y a velocidades por debajo de 200 parece que no se mueven.
LOS TRENES TALGO, CON UN SOLO EJE SON MÁS SUAVES QUE OTROS CON DOS.
BASTA YA DE DIFAMAR Y DIFUNDIR MENTIRAS.
Lógicamente a 300 a veces hay vibraciones, PASA CON TODOS LOS TRENES DEL MUNDO, Y DEPENDE MÁS DE LAS VÍAS DEL TRAZADO, FUNDAMENTALMENTE.
trabajas para Talgo ? :-)
So why are Renfe suing Talgo then?
😂😂😂
@@NonstopEurotripPor los retrasos en la entrega de los trenes
Es grosero empezar defendiendo algo cuando se empieza “para todos lis ignorantes” esto es UA-cam y cada uno da su opinión. Este canal es bastante respetuoso en su opinión. Muchos son de fuera de España y siempre hay diferencias culturales. Talgo está trabajando en una revisión del Avril, y tiene futuros contratos con compañías francesas, que no le gustaría perder. La mayoría de opiniones son desde la perspectiva que se espera un producto con el mejor standard. Se entiende que las vías que se construyen también tienen unos estándares en toda Europa. Si no es así hay algo que no esta bien aquí. El problema no solo sería Talgo sino Adif también. Todos los amantes del ferrocarril desearían que el producto Talgo Avril estuviera al nivel, no importa toda la mercadotecnia que hay detrás de Talgo, si uno se monta y no va confortable, tan simple cómo eso. El Ave en España debe tener el mas alto Standard sea el tren que sea.
It's really good that Indian Railways decided to build it's own VB EMU trains instead of purchasing talgo coaches.. VB sleeper would be huge success if they increase the track speed to it's design speed & if somehow upgrade track to Semi High speed 220 Km/h capable then would be real value for money..
I guess we'll find out soon ....
That first background song slaps though
Also love how Renfe just loves to screw their uses over any chance they get to. And then they cry when people prefer to fly or take a bus
True true 😊
This train does look like a 21 century product. On the positive side, these issues are not so insurmountable. There is technology out there to address most of the problems. Like most new products, there can be a "teething season" until it gets perfected..
Will be interesting to see how DB get on with their new Talgos , for me the Talgo single axle concept is never going to compare well on ride quality with traditional bogie designs whether articulated or not.
👀👀👀
"Lack of wheels" would mean they have none at all. "Fewer than you might expect", perhaps
Nope, a definite deficiency 🙃
The bad riding quality might also be intensified by the tracks. Riding the ICE 3 from Cologne to Frankfurt feels like hovering. However, riding on basically the same train (Velaro E) between Madrid and Barcelona feels bumpy.
The track construction is different. In Germany high speed tracks are laid on concrete plates while in Spain ballast is used. That makes some difference. Spain had some issues when they tried running above 300Km/h because the rocks were causing damage to the train.
I disagree. Ride a Velaro on the Madrid Barcelona line then a Talgo straight after and you'll immediately notice the difference in ride quality
@@NonstopEurotrip I partially disagree. You notice the track irregularities much more in low-floor units (like whichever by Talgo) than in higher-floor units (like Siemens Velaro or CAF units)
Talgo is also known for pendular coaches in North America, especially on Amtrak. And they're definitely not remembered fondly for them either.
And they're being replaced too ...
The introduction of the Talgo trains on Pacific Northwest increased ridership substantially and were loved. After the derailment where the train behaved better than conventional train, during the public NTSB hearing, politicians demanded these "imported" trains be widthdrawn from service. Because those were modern light trains with modern bogies, they did not fit FRA rules requiring trains be limited heavy 1950s technology and the Talgos were granted an exemption from these. (in a 2018 revision of rules, FRA admitted its rules had prevented the USA from getting modern trains and has since relaxed rules but too late for Talgo). Talgo appealed the decision to require the trains be retired which was not technical and purely political. Currently, the trains are operated with commuter-train quality Horizon coaches (Comets with Amtrak seats) and are very disliked. (The second batch of Talgos were built heavy to FRA standards in the USA but that project went sour when half the order was cancelled by the Wisconsin DOT).
Great trip. The current train shape feels like TGV POS, but yeah like other channel, the ride quality is downgrade, and the seat configuration remind me about most affordable economy train in my country, the difference are this isn't bay seating and it's real seat/chair, not padded bench.
True, but for a new flagship train, it really isn't great!
They are supposed to be used for the AVLO low-cost high speed offering from Renfe. But with this botch job, iryo will be more than happy to have Hitachi pump out a couple more ETR1000 and profit from Renfe's fall-out.
Yes, you can buy a Tarjeta Dorada when get invalid pension. I don't know the percentage. You must have a letter of the doctor with the percentage.
Refunds policy have changed recently due to political things, now 50% at 60min delay and 100% at 90min delay
That's not what the website says 😂
Thanks for the review. Where are the bicycles placed while in "flight"? I need to know since I always travel with my bike.
Only folding bikes are accepted to be stored on luggage racks
Certainly look a lot better than their duck-like predecessors (and also Velaro and ICE 4, and the new Acela Liberty (and there's one for delays entering service 🙄), but shame they decided to go for the Ryanair configuration in standard class. Still, it's certainly a more balanced review than "WORST TRAIN EVER???!!?!?!"
I love how the duck trains look
Hey at least they didn't use 3+3 seating 😂
Awaiting the completion of the high speed rail link to Vera in a few years time....
Thanks, very instructive and helpful for planning. Just a thought... It might be more personal/individual to have the intro with yourself in the picture...like your friend "Superalbs Travel"or Geoff Marshall
Not my style, but thanks!
@@NonstopEurotrip Oh OK, it was just a thought...
The body width of the Talgo Avril is 3200mm and 3-2 seating configuration is comfortable enough. 3-2 seating also used on Russian/Finnish gauge trainsets if bodywidth of 3150-3400 is used. It think it's a good way for the operators to squeeze out the most of it.
No Finnish intercity or higher-speed trains have 3+2 seating.
I love the looks of this train, and it's capabilities. However, it's not as good as the older Talgo AVE trains, but im sure they can fix it. This train has a lot of potential and, I hope it'll be of great use. Though what bothers me a lot on Talgo trains is their single axle configuration. Cheaper, but impacts passenger comfort.
The audio provided of the supposedly noisy bumps did not work, as I thought it sounded pretty smooth and also the camera did not shake either. So I just wonder how the narrator got a headache, as it was also not detectable on the broad gauge section either
You need your ears and eyes testing 🙏🏻
Las vibraciones son mayoritariamente por las condiciones de las vias, no por los trenes.
The tracks are brand new 😂
Not in the iberian gauge part, where the bumping is worse.
There is currently heavy pressure from the government for Talgo to fix their trains, and it seems like *allegedly*, a big reason for their flaws is that the trainsets have so much new technologies and building techniques that a lot of software is needed to glue them together, and the software seems to be quite lacking. Would you be open to revisit these trainsets in a few years, to compare them?
Absolutely!
Can you please cover TGV service from Geneva to Paris.
Hopefully soon!
The train looks brutally beautiful. I feel Japanese vibe at some point.
Really? I don't feel that at all
I don't think that 3+2 seating in itself is all that terrible. It works well in the Shinkansen in Japan, and is perfectly comfortable. Okay, the shinkansen is a little bit wider than the Class 106, but only enough for 3 extra centimeters per person, but I think the Shinkansen have wider hallways too so the seats are really close to the same width.
The real problem with the 106 is the shaking and the noise. Also, while the leg space seemed decent in the video, it's not quite as much as in the Shinkansen, which have a lot of leg space to make up for the 3+2 seating layout (and to permit rotating the seats around).
It's a combination of everything imo
You travelled to North West Spain, not North East as stated in the video.
First one to spot the deliberate mistake 😉
Beautiful video.
Which is high speed train in Europe?
And which train did you enjoyed the most in Europe?
Which Railcard is valid in Europe for seniors?
Thank you
Use Google to check ✔️
I like noisy trains. They're more peaceful.
?
Nice ❤️ From 🇱🇰 ❤
Anulador alo expuesto en tu reportaje que cuentan con un vagón silencio , donde el móvil está limitado su uso y se puede dormir , un saludo desde España y añadir que se está estudiando ya la versión futura de este tren para corregir las deficiencias de la marcha y solucionar los ya existentes en el modelo de tren actual , de hecho el gobierno ha protestado oficialmente y pedirá indemnizaciones .. los retrasos horario muchos son debido a la remodelación de la estación de Chamartín madrid , y los asientos es cierto que no son los mejores 😅
Great video.
Thanks!
Heh. All of you train review youtubers posting a video on this train within the same week xD And all of you going north too. Why didn't y'all meet up :D
We actually travelled at slightly different times :)
3+2 means cheaper tickets. If they are sufficient for a 2-3 hours ride, count me in.
Not true. Because the prices are the same on the 2+2 trains on this route
@@NonstopEurotrip obviously not for free market reasons. If you transport more people, you can charge less to each of them.
2+2 seating is not first class in Europe and USA. MARC commuters between DC and Baltimore complained about the middle seat on the 3-person bench so the new double deckers went 2+2.
Also agreed!!!! 💯
If the train is absolutely wide enough, 2+2 is a feasible option, like the newest SJ-high speed train on this channel. Clearly this train is not wide enough though.
I wonder how comes European loading gauge and Japan Shinkansen+Chinese HSR are different@@olasola1013
@@olasola1013may be the widest train you can find in Europe. It is 30cm wider than regular trains
@@olasola1013 Sorry, no. The carriages are wider, but not as wide as an extra seat. DB and DSB decided against it for good reason. Renfe decided to take their low-cost approach and apply it to all fare classes. Add to this that the seats have already been nicknamed "butablas" (portmanteau of "butaca" and "tabla"; seat and board), they're essentially selling off tighter spaced ironing boards as a first class product.
I'm waiting for the ICE-L to come to Germany to ride with Talgo. Hope they will ride better than this.
I wouldn't hold your breath 🙃
There's hoping. To begin with, Talgo will only be manufacturing the carriages, which is their business and where they have experience in. It also won't be a rush job through service-worthiness approvals (not since those civil servants from the EBA got manslaughter charges for approving a train with faulty doors that opened mid-journey over a decade ago). This whole class 106 fiasco is a tax-payer funded R&D programme to extend Talgo's business offering and a rush job to get everything into service on a network starved for rolling stock and politicians starved for good-looking ribbon cutting to distract form other things going on right now. Not that DB is not starved for rolling stock, but they don't have the political motivation to rush things like happened here..
The ICE-L uses different cars, and of course with a different running and suspension system. The interior is managed by DB itself.
I also smiled when you mentioned the theoritical 380km/h top speed. 🙂 Can you imagine the vibrations and noise at that speed LOL ???
@@Desi365 scary thoughts eh 😂
@@CryingCroc.Max operation speed in china is 350kmph
The carriage facilities are very user-friendly, but they are far inferior to the comfort of the train. There are still many areas that need improvement. I look forward to having better trains.
Amen 🙌🏻
Come to Poland and you will get 25% if your train is 1-2h late or 50% if your train is 2+h late xDDDDDDDDD
Poland is a top tier country
I want this in TSW5
Para todos los que comentan sobre Talgo:
Los nuevos trenes Talgo 106 tienen los vagones más anchos del mercado, y un interior optimizado para mayor anchura, lo cual permite colocar 5 asientos DE LA MISMA ANCHURA que los 4 en otros trenes. Igualmente se pueden colocar 4 en primera clase CON EL MISMO ESPACIO que los 3 en otros trenes.
SOBRE LAS RUEDAS INDEPENDIENTES:
Poner dos ruedas en lugar de una es necesario para reducir los vaches y vibraciones en los trenes que tienden a inclinarse en las curvas por la fuerza centrífuga, pero eso no les ocurre a los Talgo.
En los trenes que no son Talgo el centro de gravedad está siempre POR ENCIMA de las suspensiones, lo que provoca inclinación hacia fuera. Para compensarlo hay que endurecer las suspensiones o colocar MÁS RUEDAS, que duplican la fuerza de la suspensión.
En los trenes Talgo, POR SER TAN BAJOS, las suspensiones se colocan POR ENCIMA O A LA ALTURA del centro de gravedad, lo que ELIMINA la inclinación (o incluso produce inclinación negativa hacia el interior, que se llama pendulación natural).
Al eliminar la inclinación por fuerza centrífuga se pueden instalar suspensiones más suaves, eso es por lo que estos trenes son tan confortables, y a velocidades por debajo de 200 parece que no se mueven.
LOS TRENES TALGO, CON UN SOLO EJE SON MÁS SUAVES QUE OTROS CON DOS.
BASTA YA DE DIFAMAR Y DIFUNDIR MENTIRAS.
Lógicamente a 300 a veces hay vibraciones, PASA CON TODOS LOS TRENES DEL MUNDO, Y DEPENDE MÁS DE LAS VÍAS DEL TRAZADO, FUNDAMENTALMENTE.
El nuevo tren de Talgo es excelente como todos los trenes de Talgo.
Estos trenes adaptan el giro de sus ejes de forma que las ruedas permanecen siempre tangentes a la via, y los ejes perpendiculares. Esto elimina la tendencia al descarrilamiento de los ejes tradicionales y de los bogies, y permite que los vagones sean mucho más ligeros manteniendo un paso por curva de alta velocidad con completa seguridad.
Además, son trenes extremadamente bajos, lo que disminuye el riesgo de vuelco y mejora su velocidad, aparte de ofrecer una accesibilidad sin rival, en la que no hay que subir ni un solo escalón para acceder al tren.
Su mayor ligereza permite remontar las subidas y acelerar con mayor facilidad, lo que permite una mayor velocidad media.
El confort de los trenes Talgo es excelente, igual o superior al resto de trenes. Esto es algo que el fabricante Talgo mide CIENTÍFICAMENTE y que tiene muy estudiado.
En el 106, concretamente, Talgo ha desarrollado e instalado un sistema de suspensión activa electrónica con sensores de vibraciones en cada vagón, de tal manera que las suspensiones se adaptan en tiempo real a las irregularidades de la vía, todo para garantizar el máximo confort.
Se podrá decir que no es el tren más suave del mundo pero no que Talgo no haya estudiado científicamente las vibraciones y el confort en un tren de alta velocidad.
Yo personalmente he comprobado muchas veces cómo los trenes Talgo, a velocidades por debajo de 200 kmh PARECE QUE ESTÁN PARADOS, porque no se nota nada.
Tampoco he tenido nunca ninguna queja sobre los asientos, que siempre me han parecido perfectamente cómodos, y siempre he viajado muy a gusto en ellos y los viajes se me han hecho cortos.
Trenes como los Iryo (Frecciarossa ETR 1000) son más ruidosos y tienen igual o más vibraciones. Las vibraciones dependen mucho de las vías y poco de los trenes.
El uso de ejes simples y no dobles no aumenta el ruido sino que LO DISMINUYE al haber MENOS RUEDAS PRODUCIENDO RUIDO.
LO CIENTÍFICO ES COMPARAR LOS TRENES CIRCULANDO POR LAS MISMAS VÍAS Y A LA MISMA VELOCIDAD Y CON LA MISMA CARGA, porque todo eso afecta a las vibraciones.
Comparar trenes arbitrariamente, en líneas diferentes, en trazados diferentes y en vías diferentes, y sin hacer ninguna medición científica es totalmente arbitrario y ridículo.
Eso es totalmente SUBJETIVO y NO CIENTÍFICO.
Quien quiera afirmar en las redes que algún tren es más ruidoso o que vibra más que otros
QUE APORTE PRUEBAS DE MEDICIONES DE DECIBELIOS Y DE ACELERÓMETROS,
REALIZADAS SIEMPRE CON LOS MISMOS EQUIPOS, SOBRE EXACTAMENTE LOS MISMOS TRAMOS DE VÍAS, Y EXACTAMENTE A LA MISMA
VELOCIDAD, Y CON CARGA SIMILAR.
¡¡QUE APORTE TODAS ESAS PRUEBAS O QUE CALLE PARA SIEMPRE!!
See below:
ua-cam.com/video/fumYdO9XknE/v-deo.htmlsi=x57flFDDLWVNsPHe
@@NonstopEurotrip
Un vídeo muy bonito, pero sigo diciendo lo mismo:
Para comparar un tren con otro hay que hacerlo sobre LOS MISMOS RAÍLES Y A LA MISMA VELOCIDAD. Es evidente que ese tren no está en España, sino en China o Japón.
En Japón usan plataformas de hormigón armado, generalmente sobre viaductos.
Esta es una forma mucho más cara de construir una red de alta velocidad, pero permite trazados EXTREMADAMENTE ESTABLES que no se deforman con el tiempo y que garantizan una precisión y suavidad asombrosas en los trenes.
Si quieres viajar con tanta suavidad tienes que pagarlo, construyendo infraestructuras muy caras.
De todas formas yo no digo que los Talgo sean los trenes más suaves del mundo, pero tampoco son los peores.
Que sí, que sí, que trenes de los que la mitad está inservible en el depósito, y que la otra mitad le peta el ayer el disyuntor, ayer el pantógrafo, mañana las puertas y pasado el sistema informático que han tenido que parchar 3 veces es "excelente"... y estupendo y divino de la muerte!!!!!
Distance to Next 4,657km... I'm pretty sure it's also impossible to have only travelled 1km while moving at 302km/h.
😂😂😂
Train cars with a 3+2 seating arrangement are 25cm wider than cars with a 2+2 seating arrangement. Due to the width, they have to be shorter (therefore more wheels and more noise), allowing them to pass through curves without hitting any poles. This solution allows for more passengers per ride, lower ticket prices but less comfort. I think you have missed this design decision in your conclusion.
Absolutely not. All things considered it's the worst new high-speed train I can remember
Baru tahu ada bogie yang BISA berubah menyesuaikan lebar rel yang ada ya...
Yep!
I am spanish and a Talgo fan. However I have to say, this train is a DISASTER. And the problem comes from Talgo stopping working with Bombardier, and looking to cut corners both on the new locomotive and on the development of the coaches themselves and offering a ridículously low price on the BID for the new trains that could only be achieved by cutting those corners. The company that made the locomotives has no experience with trains, and these trains are full of software derived problems because they also cut corners developing the control software. On the long run I things they will solve the trains problema but they damage done to the company might end with It being sold as a tecnólogy partner to Magyar wagon and on the long run being made dissapear as a manufacturing name on the trains industry. All because of greed both on the government side and on Talgo side.
Exactly 💯
It wasn't clear in the video - are the Avril S106s just using dedicated power cars (like Alstom TGVs) or distributed power like Siemens Velaro or Japanese EMUs?
Yes, like all other Talgo EMUs too
The first things I think of when hearing "Talgo" are bumpy rides and unpleasant experiences. And it seems I'm not that wrong :D
And ugly looking trains!
Absolutely correct 💯
Hey, the old class 102 from Renfe are OK. The ride quality is meh, but not bumpy. And I would also not say that my experience on them was unpleasant. Yes, I totally get why one would say "kill it with fire before it lays eggs!!" about class 106, but for all the deserved bashing Talgo is getting for the current crap they put out on the market, the previous stuff was OK (with room for improvement).
@@ThisWontFly exactly, they're ok. But they're nowhere near Shinkansen or Fuxing quality
@@NonstopEurotripI think you need to make something like a tier list comparing ride quality.
Most of us have ridden 1 or 2 systems, only you can compare global systems.
I was directed to this video after watching the Shanghai to Nanjing video. Nothing on the Talgo train measures up to the Fuxing.
Absolutely correct!!!
Mucho mejores los españoles sin tener que esclavizar a miles de personas en su construcción.
At what speed it runs bw Ourense & coruna ?
Varies
@@NonstopEurotrip max 300kmph ?
Given they'll likely be making our high-speed trains in Portugal, they have about 10 years to fix those issues, hopefully 😅
Fingers crossed CP (or whoever operates the high speed route) takes note and decides on French, German or Italian offerings...
Eeeeeekkkkk
This raises an even more important question, is Portugal building the new high speed tracks with concrete plates like Germans or with ballast like the Spanish? The issues with ballast are known. The line between Evora and Elvas appears to be ballast from the pictures I've seen, but that wasn't designed for 300Km/h operating speeds.
Too many issues with Talgo, I hope a different manufacturer is chosen by the operators.
@@f.g.9466 Interesting point. French TGV lines are all ballast, even the more recent ones. I'm guessing ballast is less expensive than concrete slabs initially, tho I guess it costs a lot in maintenance in the long run.
Indeed. Talgo would seem to be a bad choice.
Portugal should consult and buy trains from Germany (Velaro). Those trains have good ride quality.
Thankfully, in my country, we're buying trains from Japan (E5 shinkansen). And the tracks are fully concrete. So, it'll be very smooth.
Could you compare it to the Chinese HSR Fuxing CR400AF trains? Have you tried those?
No comparison
ua-cam.com/video/f5wG0eU3NM4/v-deo.html
@@NonstopEurotrip Thanks bro! That's what I want
Issue is the two tyowsof Gates
The Alvias were slower and getting older
We need a faster 300 km/h + train that could operate in both gauges
I'd have gone to CAF then...
@@NonstopEurotrip What are you talking about? Do you know what you're talking about? CAF did not submit to the public offer because it does not have technology available for those speeds and use lol. They are already having a LOT of problems in Norway for a short-medium distance train. WTF
18.15, looks like the site of the massive Talgo crash? Speed difference between your video and footage are a marked difference. Keep up the good work 👍
I believe it's at 15:15
I'm going to be frank. I wasn't going to watch this video, but after seeing a comparison between some of the issues of the Talgo Avril and the Top Gear's Caravan Challenge, my curiosity has been piqued
😂😂😂
Everytime I see a Talgo video, I dread the arrival of the Talgo-ICE version in Germany. WHHYYYYY? WHY??? 😭
Hmmmmmm
North west of the country, not the north east. (before you release...)
Deliberate mistakes 😂
Hey, you did correct it later on by saying "west"....
The 3+2 configuration is terrible, unique in Europe.
Absolutely!
This a problem of the Renfe and isn't a problem of Talgo. There is a design of a Talgo 3 with 3+2 in third Clase!!!!.
If Deutsche Bahn offered this generois of a refund scheme, they would be bankrupt very quickly :) - Even the current one (25% refund at 60 minutes delay, 50% at 120 minutes) apparently eats up a not insignificant amount of revenue already.
And we will get Talgo trains (ICE-L) soon, as well...
😂😂😂😂
Ducking middle seats on a train?!? Why would you do something like that?
Spanish activities
Bonking noises from between the carriages? Ooh-er!
😂😂😂
Silly question but is gauge the size of the rail?
Yes 👍🏻
@@NonstopEurotrip thanks for the reply never knew what it meant great video btw
It's the width between the rails.
@@normanjack9243 thanks never knew that
I’ve ridden an AVRIL from Chamartín to Alicante-Terminal as an alternative since the train I was about to take had a technical problem. I didn’t have any problem on the AVRIL other than the seats being quite uncomfortable…
I’ve only got to say that the train began it’s journey 35 minutes late…
So late and uncomfortable. Big problems no?
@@NonstopEurotrip the seats weren’t fully equal, and the one I were set was the highest quality there. Other companies’ (OUIGO and IRYO) offer much better seats at their lowest prices
No llevo vistos dos minutos del video y ya me escaman un par de cosas. Eso de que por tener menos ruedas el viaje es menos suave, no se de donde lo han sacado, el concepto es algo menos sencillo que el numero de ejes y la suavidad del viaje, y viene de lejos. Y eso de que la estacion de Chamartin esta en el extraradio, pues no se, eso diria mi primo q vive en Bilbao. Miedo me da seguir p' lante 😢
nunca le gusto madrid y habla de la capital con desden...se le nota demasiado,pero como es la ciudad mas importante donde hay mas trenes de alta velocidad en España y de las tops en europa tiene que tragar y salir desde ahi muchas veces...
Well, everything I said is true.... There's a reason every other train in the world has many more wheels and proper suspension
@@NonstopEurotrip No me voy a poner a polemizar pq la verdad no tengo ni ganas ni tiempo. No me mal interpretes pq no soy un heater ni nada que se le parezca. El hecho de que sea un coche el que tenga un eje y el otro vaya colgado sobre el primero, tiene que ver con que la estructura del vagon culega de la suspensión que en estos trenes se encuentra en la parte superior, lo que hace el efecto péndulo y que la caja del tren sufra mínimas oscilaciones en curva, cosa que hace el viaje mcuho más confortable. Los italianos lo quisieron hacer con los pendolinos , pero obligaba a llevar giroscopios en cada bogie, los cuales se averiaban con facilidad y lo convertian en un sistema muy poco fiable. Esa crítica que le haces al hecho de llavar menos ejes, te diría que cada cosa lleva lo que necesita no lo que parrece que puede necesitar, es precisamente la piedra angular de la tecnologia de Talgo. Y en la periferia de Madrid puede que esté Alcobendas, pero Chamartín está al norte de la ciudad, entre Palza Castilla y el complejo de las torres de la antigua ciudad deportiva del club más grande de todos los tiempos, línea 10 del metro de Madrid. Un saludo.
looks like Indonesia Whoosh is better in term of comfort
Definitely!
I haven't tried this train yet, from what i heard talgo's fleet in Saudi Arabia is quite comfy, maybe it's just the rails in Spain that are rough to ride? French company Le Train has bought a fleet of Talgo Avril, I hope I get the opportunity to try it
The Saudigos are definitely the best I've been on
Is the talgo design itself that lends it to give a rougher ride than bogies?
Absolutely yes
Thank You
Are you sure the headache wasn't from the cava? 😂
Surely, the power cars have bogies that can gauge change so why not fit the coaches with them? I know Renfe claim the short length of the carriages enable higher speed running around tighter curves but is it worth it if the ride is so poor?
Also high density 3+2 seating is for commuter trains not inter city long distance high speed trains but is it any worse than an economy class airline seat offering?
The whole "one wheel between 2 cars" is the main point of Talgo. They quite literally have nothing else apart from that (CAF already does gauge changing trains as well). They are not going to remove it, they´ll just double down on it as always.
3+2 seating is 100% renfe's fault. They are doing their best to make train travel as disgusting as air travel
Definitely not Mark 😂😂😂😂😂
Yes the power cars have standard bogies but the low floor design throughout wouldn't be possible with bogies on the passenger coaches
Amen 🙌🏻
@@MocomaminecraftYTOficial But CAF had many problems in the development of OARIS and in fact abandoned it. The only manufacturer in the world that remains is Talgo, in fact no one presented to the public offer (open to all world builders) except this company, nor CAF. So..
I would like to know what you propose. Without imagining things that do not exist or doing fiction economics :)
Let's see if you are going to be an Alstom delegate and we did not find out that there was a technological offer from them. (irony)
Bom dia boa viagem ai lindo trem gostei
Have to say that a slightly bumpy ride is not a reason to complain. What do you expect, a feather and an airship?
However I like your review's, but do not get too emotional over nothing.
I expect new trains and new tracks to have a good ride yes. Like Shinkansen, Fuxing, Siemens, basically anything else.
At 15:15 you pass through the section where the disastrous derailment of 2013 happened 😬
Rip 😔
New power cars looks better than duck bills.
Agreed!!
@@NonstopEurotripthe duck bill looked better.speaking of duck billed talgo 350, in the 2000s when china was trying to develop their own indegenious high speed train before giving up and importing foreign train.they created a prototype train called "china star" which weirdly looks like talgo 350 including the duck bill.
Disagree. The duck was iconic.
380 km/h capable train running 300 km/h at fastest part of the route. So in fact it is just 300 km/h train :)
Design speed is 380, as stated in the video
It's listed as a 380 km/h train to help the export market. It's the Spanish tracks and regulations that limit the speed.
Spanish tracks..even better than the wooden rotten obes in England..still from the 60,s..imagine this Takgo in the england,s tracks..no comments
5:23 What does the "330 Km/h" on the locomotive mean?
Top certified speed for the train model. Some caveats: it has recently reached 360 km/h experimentaly , but comercially it is limited to 300 km/h.
@@loloflores123 thanks for the explanation. So 380 km/h is just a theory at this moment?
@@MattiBlume I guess it has been designed for 380, and it has been tried on commercial rails up to 360. But I am not a specialist, just an amateur on these topics.
330 is current approved maximum speed. 380 is design speed
Oh, has A Coruña moved north on the map?
Yes, we just moved the entire 250k city to another location.
Na , just east
I'm sorry that you had to endure both an uncomfortable ride AND the horrible Chamartín station. We've had to deal with it a few times, as the Valencia trains use this rather than Atocha.
Poor poor me 😔😂
Just today, many Renfe workers have redacted and sent a letter containing the 20 (20!) worst problems of the Talgo Avril. Including the seats, bumping, various mistakes on train layout for the crew, etc.
These trains are a disaster. I wanted to believe for so long. Even after they started, I tried to believe they would fix them somehow. They are blowing up Renfe's reputation, losing a very high amount of money in refunds and just lost clients. They should never have entered circulation at this stage, and the worst part is that Renfe cannot just return them or get rid of them, they are way too strained in trainsets already.
Renfe should ASAP start ordering some more trains though. Probably some old Alvia trainsets, at least they work.
Is that letter available online? I would love to read it please.
Not just Renfe, but also Talgo's reputation is being impacted. Are S130 and S730 this noisy as well?
There was some expectation in Portugal that these trains could be used in the future to connect high speed in Portugal (Iberian gauge) with longer services into Spain using standard gauge, so this is a big curb to the enthusiasm.
I heard rumors that they are already working on a new version of these trains.
Amen 🙌🏻