Mod Ryan stated they weren't going for long term value with the weapons, they were going for accessibility. I wouldn't hold my breath on them changing weapon rates when a cheap price was the goal, not an item for profit. The chase item is the shard, not the weapons.
The longevity of this dg is probably more secure than any other bossing content to date. The shards are the reason for this. Not only does every account eventually need 6, but any new t95s they add increase that amount. Imo this was a superb design choice. One they can even parody with other upgrades in future content. The magic dw being "common" is imo good. I wish fsoa and other t95s were this obtainable. I already have bis for 3 styles, so it's not that I want an easy grab or anything. I think t95s (besides ezk) help revolutionize the way a style is played, and I don't think that should be really far out of reach for an average player. Keep in mind that an average player might have 1-2b total. They just can't afford these cool ass weapons that are fun to use, and without the power some of them bring, they probably can't realistically do the content to get them either. Necromancy helps a ton with this, but eventually content and other styles will outscale Necromancy, so we are on a small island that's shrinking as far as that goes.
i really hate when ppl call everything thats not as good as zamorak for 'bad loot' by no means are the common loot here the best you ever seen but if you go the other way its way way better than something like giant mole or kbd..when to be fair the 2 first bosses arent that hard...i just wish the last boss would accualy give a bit more than the other 2 as it is a bit harder. overall common loot is fine...i agree with the vital spark tho.
Im fine with cheap high tier weapons, yeah it sucks when you are the one selling it and you wont get 3.2bill like from a botlg but for the health of the game the gear prices got to start coming down. I would like to see the common loot bumped up though for this and future content so its more consistent gp/hr you can calculate vs trying to chase those big ticket items. kinda like zammy in your example which is the perfect boss imo. its roughly ~30mill an hour 3-7mill per chest min based on enrage and you have some decent chase items. this dungeon being ~5-10m per hour i mean it makes it better then rasial in terms of commons but the amount of effort to gp ratio is all off you could afk skill and not lose out on anything (if farming normal mode only). At least the commons are good enough to pay for supply costs unlike other places like Raksha also agree with you on the death animations like i thought we learned from Masuta and black stone dragon. nobody likes to stand there and wait for some unnecessary boss mechanic to play out it just really drags the kills down over a long time
I agree with you on everything. I get that accessibility was the goal and I'm all for that, but at the same time, having t95s on normal mode at these rates is really devaluing them. I challenge anyone who can do solo normal mode Nakatra and get a set of t95s, to go solo AOD... My point is, it doesn't make sense that t92s are harder to get than t95s. Why?? So I agree. Also, I got GIGGA spooned at this dungeon and got the shard after only 5 hard mode kills... Insert *Aiight imma head out Spongebob Meme here.* FYI, this kind of luck has NEVER happened to me before ever. So ya, I'm not going back to this dungeon cause I just know that if I do i'm entering the sahara desert of dry streaks :D
Im fine with t95s being "common." They're not common but the amount of people doing the dungeon is making them common. It's a good problem to have, SoR is the most successful PvM content launch (I think) ever. If you want the loot to be better then this problem would be even more exacerbated. You think the content is overly engaged with now? Wait until every kill is highly valuable in terms of common loot. If you're chasing GP, then go do the other bosses that have better commons.
Nah if t95 is common than it makes the game boring. Most prob they wanna introduce higher tier soon hence make the lower tier more common. Game gets boring once even a noob can get higher tier weapon.
@@fin788 they already introduced a higher tier. It's called the shard. And it's locked behind hard mode. And I will stand by it not being too common. Maybe in terms of total items entering the game but not in terms of what the actual drop rates are. Only way to fix that is to crank the individual drop rates to 1/500 and now it's not fun because the individual is not getting any drops while the community as a whole is still pumping them out like there is no tomorrow because again, when you have everyone and their dog doing the content, no matter what the drop rate is, they're going to be common. It's like the drop rate being 1/1000 but every kill counts as 300 kills because every time you kill the boss, you and 299 other people that also JUST killed the boss are rolling on the dice at the same time. No thanks, leave rates alone.
@@ducksquidbat8315 that's what we call an anecdote. Congrats on being spooned, you're an outlier To put this into perspective, Jagex released the numbers of how many times the dungeon was completed in the first week. 1.2m NM clears and 1m HM clears. Even if the drop rate was 1/1000 for NM (Which is an astronomically rare drop rate) and 1/500 for HM (Which is also an incredibly rare drop rate), that's 1,200 weapons coming into the game from NM and 2,000 weapons from HM. 3,200 weapons all together. That's A LOT of weapons coming into the game in the first week alone. So you're advocating for going dry for a long period of time as an individual but doing nothing to actually stem the amount of weapons coming into the game from the community as a whole. I want you to understand that and how HORRIBLE of a design that would be
I completely disagree with the prayer being useless to be honest. I have been loving using it in places that I don't have accuracy concerns along with a zealots. The damage percentage is absolutely cracked in those areas.
T95's should be closer to 400-500 per MH/OH and like 700 for 2h... there is no reason they should be 2b+....Majority of the game can't aford that cost and get stuck to t90 for their entire gameplay... and remember HM locks PVM in for like 1 percent of ppl... NM should ALWAYS drop t95 somewhat "rare"... this game needs changing away from the elitelist PVM
This is the best content I've seen released for a noob pvm'r. 10hm solo kc. I can see it becoming monotonous, but from a learner pov, the telegraphing is amazing. I always know what I screwed up on, I see all the avoidable damage in real time. The glyps on the walls are amazing. Died a lot but never did I question why. (Mainly due to bad) first 2 bosses are easy but teach mechanics really well. The last phase wave should be in nm is my only criticism (with less/no consequences)
I agree with the boss death animations and the vital sparks complaints. I disagree with T95s needing to be more rare and more expensive, I think the accessibility of the weapons is positive for the PvM community at large. I disagree with the prayer book being a useless "troll" item because the book is easily obtainable by lower level accounts (including HCIM) to substitute for curses (Divine Rage + T70 combat prayers are stronger than the Leech curses). I'm unsure about the Amascut book since I haven't tested it myself but the general consensus is it's on par with or better than the Jas book in some cases, and is better than the Wen book in almost all cases. The shards being the only "chase" item is fine because you need multiple of them since they're very useful and expensive and will be needed again in the future when we inevitably get T95 dual wield ranged weapons. In short I think the update is excellent for mid level accounts doing normal mode while high level accounts have a challenging and ultimately rewarding hard mode experience.
i think this boss update is great for one reason. Yes the GP/hour isnt as good as say zammy, HOWEVER its still good. and it having a safe death and its special 3 try mechanic is finally getting people a boss to test out manual without having to pay a bill is death costs. you can make money while learning manual, which will then help you on every other boss. that and with the mining smithing update coming with the first t100, t95s have no reason to be super expensive anymore and i think thats why they did this, Jagex is moving and preping to t100+s.
Thank you for approving of the area dmg. You understand that the game needs to be made available to everyone. You are a great player, and you still understand how basics needs to be maintained for players, however you only mention ironmen. This update was good for mid pvm and high tier pvm players. In my mind, it is great. Yes, high PVM the drops are meh. But this is not meant to be high end pvm. Do not treat every new boss as being focus towards the top 10%. Jagex wants more users, they also want to maintain users. Think of content in that aspect, the top 10% are just that, 10%. But in the past, that is where updates were focused. If you were to help Jagex, what would you do? My thoughts would be to give love to old content like Castle Wars. Overall, it would be to focus on fun activities rather than PVM.
as best i can tell, shard is 1/80-100 full HM runs... i think this is probably a little too high. good pvm'ers probably get 6 runs an hour in (maybe even 7). but people like me are only getting around 4/hr in... on average luck that's 20-25hrs per shard.... yet we will need 6 .... that's a pretty brutal grind. outside that, i think every completion should be at least 1 vital spark, up to 10. there's a bunch of abilities to be unlocked with thousands of them, very few people bothered to unlock them all because of this
The common loot is bad, quite a lot of stuff in the chest there sells for way under GE mid price too. The unique items are so easily available there is little value except for the shard and they made it so you have to do the first two bosses just to get a chance to play RNG bingo on a shard at the final boss, so it starts to feel chore very quickly. Plus the final boss has some frustrating mechanics; other bosses are more fun and more consistent GP. I think it is a pretty bad and I don't understand why this dungeon has been received so well in the community, it feels like it will have a very short lifespan.
So for I got: shard on 3kc ode to deceit on 33 kc I got divine rage codex around 40kc, but not counting it as it is literal garbage and almost worthless now.
I have 109 nm and 100 hm, i have complete log, 1 of each weapon, 1 shard like 6 scriptures and 3 prayer codexes. Got the pet in normal at 98kc The base loot really isnt too bad, 500k-1m per boss that only take 2-4 mins each isnt bad
@FroggieGames it hits several times like the wen book, but instead of a big hit, it gives increased damage for a period. So it's basically wen with a mini ful, and that's really good as far as poison builds.
The scripture droprate is so bad. Only 52 in 200 runs for a book that is worse than the alternatives is not good. Takes a bad book to worthless because of the cost to use it. You don't even break even if you use the book here
lol they are not little money bro 200m or 300m not every one can pvm in hm or every boss in hm so is great to get them in nm, but true the book ant the good
Mod Ryan stated they weren't going for long term value with the weapons, they were going for accessibility. I wouldn't hold my breath on them changing weapon rates when a cheap price was the goal, not an item for profit. The chase item is the shard, not the weapons.
Let thx this mod pls, because of this man I a newb can have access to a t95 weapon! May god bless Mod Ryan!
The longevity of this dg is probably more secure than any other bossing content to date. The shards are the reason for this. Not only does every account eventually need 6, but any new t95s they add increase that amount. Imo this was a superb design choice. One they can even parody with other upgrades in future content.
The magic dw being "common" is imo good. I wish fsoa and other t95s were this obtainable. I already have bis for 3 styles, so it's not that I want an easy grab or anything. I think t95s (besides ezk) help revolutionize the way a style is played, and I don't think that should be really far out of reach for an average player. Keep in mind that an average player might have 1-2b total. They just can't afford these cool ass weapons that are fun to use, and without the power some of them bring, they probably can't realistically do the content to get them either. Necromancy helps a ton with this, but eventually content and other styles will outscale Necromancy, so we are on a small island that's shrinking as far as that goes.
i really hate when ppl call everything thats not as good as zamorak for 'bad loot' by no means are the common loot here the best you ever seen but if you go the other way its way way better than something like giant mole or kbd..when to be fair the 2 first bosses arent that hard...i just wish the last boss would accualy give a bit more than the other 2 as it is a bit harder. overall common loot is fine...i agree with the vital spark tho.
Im fine with cheap high tier weapons, yeah it sucks when you are the one selling it and you wont get 3.2bill like from a botlg but for the health of the game the gear prices got to start coming down. I would like to see the common loot bumped up though for this and future content so its more consistent gp/hr you can calculate vs trying to chase those big ticket items.
kinda like zammy in your example which is the perfect boss imo. its roughly ~30mill an hour 3-7mill per chest min based on enrage and you have some decent chase items. this dungeon being ~5-10m per hour i mean it makes it better then rasial in terms of commons but the amount of effort to gp ratio is all off you could afk skill and not lose out on anything (if farming normal mode only).
At least the commons are good enough to pay for supply costs unlike other places like Raksha
also agree with you on the death animations like i thought we learned from Masuta and black stone dragon. nobody likes to stand there and wait for some unnecessary boss mechanic to play out it just really drags the kills down over a long time
I agree with you on everything. I get that accessibility was the goal and I'm all for that, but at the same time, having t95s on normal mode at these rates is really devaluing them. I challenge anyone who can do solo normal mode Nakatra and get a set of t95s, to go solo AOD... My point is, it doesn't make sense that t92s are harder to get than t95s. Why?? So I agree. Also, I got GIGGA spooned at this dungeon and got the shard after only 5 hard mode kills... Insert *Aiight imma head out Spongebob Meme here.* FYI, this kind of luck has NEVER happened to me before ever. So ya, I'm not going back to this dungeon cause I just know that if I do i'm entering the sahara desert of dry streaks :D
Im fine with t95s being "common." They're not common but the amount of people doing the dungeon is making them common. It's a good problem to have, SoR is the most successful PvM content launch (I think) ever.
If you want the loot to be better then this problem would be even more exacerbated. You think the content is overly engaged with now? Wait until every kill is highly valuable in terms of common loot. If you're chasing GP, then go do the other bosses that have better commons.
Nah if t95 is common than it makes the game boring. Most prob they wanna introduce higher tier soon hence make the lower tier more common. Game gets boring once even a noob can get higher tier weapon.
@@fin788 they already introduced a higher tier. It's called the shard. And it's locked behind hard mode. And I will stand by it not being too common. Maybe in terms of total items entering the game but not in terms of what the actual drop rates are.
Only way to fix that is to crank the individual drop rates to 1/500 and now it's not fun because the individual is not getting any drops while the community as a whole is still pumping them out like there is no tomorrow because again, when you have everyone and their dog doing the content, no matter what the drop rate is, they're going to be common.
It's like the drop rate being 1/1000 but every kill counts as 300 kills because every time you kill the boss, you and 299 other people that also JUST killed the boss are rolling on the dice at the same time. No thanks, leave rates alone.
I got b2b weapons on normal mode…
It’s stupid. They should be hard mode exclusive
@@ducksquidbat8315 that's what we call an anecdote. Congrats on being spooned, you're an outlier
To put this into perspective, Jagex released the numbers of how many times the dungeon was completed in the first week. 1.2m NM clears and 1m HM clears. Even if the drop rate was 1/1000 for NM (Which is an astronomically rare drop rate) and 1/500 for HM (Which is also an incredibly rare drop rate), that's 1,200 weapons coming into the game from NM and 2,000 weapons from HM. 3,200 weapons all together. That's A LOT of weapons coming into the game in the first week alone.
So you're advocating for going dry for a long period of time as an individual but doing nothing to actually stem the amount of weapons coming into the game from the community as a whole. I want you to understand that and how HORRIBLE of a design that would be
Based duke spitting facts
I completely disagree with the prayer being useless to be honest. I have been loving using it in places that I don't have accuracy concerns along with a zealots. The damage percentage is absolutely cracked in those areas.
T95's should be closer to 400-500 per MH/OH and like 700 for 2h... there is no reason they should be 2b+....Majority of the game can't aford that cost and get stuck to t90 for their entire gameplay... and remember HM locks PVM in for like 1 percent of ppl... NM should ALWAYS drop t95 somewhat "rare"... this game needs changing away from the elitelist PVM
This is the best content I've seen released for a noob pvm'r. 10hm solo kc. I can see it becoming monotonous, but from a learner pov, the telegraphing is amazing. I always know what I screwed up on, I see all the avoidable damage in real time. The glyps on the walls are amazing. Died a lot but never did I question why. (Mainly due to bad) first 2 bosses are easy but teach mechanics really well. The last phase wave should be in nm is my only criticism (with less/no consequences)
I agree with the boss death animations and the vital sparks complaints. I disagree with T95s needing to be more rare and more expensive, I think the accessibility of the weapons is positive for the PvM community at large. I disagree with the prayer book being a useless "troll" item because the book is easily obtainable by lower level accounts (including HCIM) to substitute for curses (Divine Rage + T70 combat prayers are stronger than the Leech curses). I'm unsure about the Amascut book since I haven't tested it myself but the general consensus is it's on par with or better than the Jas book in some cases, and is better than the Wen book in almost all cases. The shards being the only "chase" item is fine because you need multiple of them since they're very useful and expensive and will be needed again in the future when we inevitably get T95 dual wield ranged weapons.
In short I think the update is excellent for mid level accounts doing normal mode while high level accounts have a challenging and ultimately rewarding hard mode experience.
Couldnt agree more with the vital sparks, need to start this grind on the iron but its so dreadful with the available methods right now
i think this boss update is great for one reason. Yes the GP/hour isnt as good as say zammy, HOWEVER its still good. and it having a safe death and its special 3 try mechanic is finally getting people a boss to test out manual without having to pay a bill is death costs. you can make money while learning manual, which will then help you on every other boss. that and with the mining smithing update coming with the first t100, t95s have no reason to be super expensive anymore and i think thats why they did this, Jagex is moving and preping to t100+s.
Thank you for approving of the area dmg. You understand that the game needs to be made available to everyone. You are a great player, and you still understand how basics needs to be maintained for players, however you only mention ironmen.
This update was good for mid pvm and high tier pvm players. In my mind, it is great. Yes, high PVM the drops are meh. But this is not meant to be high end pvm. Do not treat every new boss as being focus towards the top 10%. Jagex wants more users, they also want to maintain users. Think of content in that aspect, the top 10% are just that, 10%. But in the past, that is where updates were focused.
If you were to help Jagex, what would you do? My thoughts would be to give love to old content like Castle Wars. Overall, it would be to focus on fun activities rather than PVM.
Oh man, you got so unlucky. I'm here at 115 hm kc with 7 weapons and 1 shard. Gl on your grind!
I'm at 100 hm kc with 1 scripture and 1 prayer
I'm at 100kc with 1 main hand, 1 off hand, 1 shard, 4 scriptures, 3 prayers.
83 kc with 6 weapons, 2 scriptures and nothing else
50 hm with 2 wands and 1 of everything except the prayer codex, just need that for log
110 kills 2 scriptures 2 prayers nothing else
as best i can tell, shard is 1/80-100 full HM runs... i think this is probably a little too high. good pvm'ers probably get 6 runs an hour in (maybe even 7). but people like me are only getting around 4/hr in... on average luck that's 20-25hrs per shard.... yet we will need 6 .... that's a pretty brutal grind.
outside that, i think every completion should be at least 1 vital spark, up to 10. there's a bunch of abilities to be unlocked with thousands of them, very few people bothered to unlock them all because of this
Theres nothing wrong with scripture of amascut, I like that I dont take more damage like it does with ful scripture.
Isn't the thing that upgrade weps to t95 worth like 2.5bil by itself?
@@lather7785 yes
Bought for 2.2 a couple days ago
Mine insta sold for 2.1 last night
Idk i think having t95s more common than most and the shard on hardmode for t100 makes sense theres still a valuable chase drop for what it is
The common loot is bad, quite a lot of stuff in the chest there sells for way under GE mid price too. The unique items are so easily available there is little value except for the shard and they made it so you have to do the first two bosses just to get a chance to play RNG bingo on a shard at the final boss, so it starts to feel chore very quickly. Plus the final boss has some frustrating mechanics; other bosses are more fun and more consistent GP.
I think it is a pretty bad and I don't understand why this dungeon has been received so well in the community, it feels like it will have a very short lifespan.
So for I got:
shard on 3kc
ode to deceit on 33 kc
I got divine rage codex around 40kc, but not counting it as it is literal garbage and almost worthless now.
146hm kc, 1 wep, 2 shards. Wep on 4th kc, then 2 shards in my last 20 kc. 2 scrips and 4 prayers too
I have 109 nm and 100 hm, i have complete log, 1 of each weapon, 1 shard like 6 scriptures and 3 prayer codexes. Got the pet in normal at 98kc
The base loot really isnt too bad, 500k-1m per boss that only take 2-4 mins each isnt bad
done 20 runs didn't know it dropped vital sparks, guess im just unlucky
The death animation is so u have enough time to switch to luck ring ..
I've had 2 Roars in just over 50 kills in normal mode... I feel spooned, like how Zuk gave me 3 ful scriptures in 40 kills in normal mode ahah
I definitely got lucky. Got the shard and a weapon within 25 kills. BUT those kills took a LONG time... my deaths well into the triple figures
Trolled by Jagex with that 3 Divine Prayer drop
Got log at 220 hm kc. 3mh, 1 oh, 2 shards, 1 book and 8(!) prayers.
Enjoy your videos subbed!
Love your videos
Way to go Froggy 🐸
the book is good for ranged bik
Isn't the the new scripture BIS for Bik arrows?
nah it doesn't affect poison damage
@FroggieGames it hits several times like the wen book, but instead of a big hit, it gives increased damage for a period. So it's basically wen with a mini ful, and that's really good as far as poison builds.
The scripture droprate is so bad. Only 52 in 200 runs for a book that is worse than the alternatives is not good. Takes a bad book to worthless because of the cost to use it. You don't even break even if you use the book here
Got 2 shards within 20 kc
lol they are not little money bro 200m or 300m not every one can pvm in hm or every boss in hm so is great to get them in nm, but true the book ant the good
1 like and a comment from me for your rng
I have 3 wands and 3 genesis shards in 60 kills bro. Your loot is awful I’m so sorry
FIRST
Im just upset its a put on necromancy and this boss is 70% easier to do kinda thing
Damn you got screwed too huh? Sucks man. I'm at 100nm 150hm 0 shards. 5 weapons 4 books.
did nm seem to have similar droprates for t95s as hm?