Yes and No... Although Strong Players, no where Pro, level APM is about 150 OFF. Once he had stole his hatch at the start, he should of simply gone Muta.. He's got 2 gas vs 1... Who goes Ultra Ling vs Lurker... They did some brilliant moves... and some moves were something I'd expect for a new player. Overall fun to watch. I'm glad they were good level, but not fantastic, because if they were. This game would of been done in under 10 minutes. Also, much more fun watching games where games can be won on mistakes. The Top Pros are so good that losing a drone early, can make the whole difference. One thing Yellow will look back the replay and notice he had to be a lot more aggressive when he was up. He can't let green get another base uncontested.
What do you mean pro AMP? Have you seen the foreigners? They float just around the same amount! This match was obviously not a Jaedong vs Larva, but not everyone can be Korean pro gamer... I think it was fun to watch and were not many mistakes. And who doesn't do mistakes? Even Flash does!
What a game! If ZvZ meta would become like this it would probably be one of the most interesting matchups. Only thing that was missing is queens killing ultras, lurkers and defilers with spawn broodlings.
I could be wrong nowadays, but the concept of fog of war originally is the concept of knowing the terrain but not knowing the area or how it may have changed due to the effects of war. Basically why you only have pictures of what your units saw after they leave and not current information. Im the blackout of the map is an active "mapping process" this concept was removed in sc2 because theirs no point in blacking out maps people have memorized especially when you still have fog of war
Isn't that true in command and conquer? Not sure about other games like aoe. Used to play a game called dark reign, probably had that fog of war as well.
@@Mustang_G aoe is one of the main ones that had three map types unexplored, fog of war, and clear. Warcraft and starcraft however made no such designation as commands to remove fog of war revealed the entire map as well. That being said games like aoe have randomized maps, and starcraft doesnt so blacking out the map in sc doesnt make as much sense, but fog of war is still used so perfect information isnt readily available.
What a great game! Despite some say not gosu, I think every bit of this game is gosu and perfectly display what SC is all about! Both Zerg are great players and demonstrated lots of great strategy. From range of the sunken placement, to try overload dropping early on, trading bases and final attempt to finish each other off, it was so awesome. It's so easy as spectators to know who's got the upper hand, and what's the next correct move. But while playing, the anxiety will make most players impossible to decide perfectly. Both players really wanted to win and was innovative at all times, as I can feel myself pulled into their mindset. Thank you for sharing!
I've been watching brood war replays everyday for about a month now! Rediscovered my love for Starcraft (although i suck). Thank you so much Falcon Paladin for these casts!
@@FalconPaladin Kind of! Not systematically or anything. But you’ve got a great, well-organized channel so I kind of explore and sample things kind of randomly. Gosu. Epic. The big 3. You really provide a wealth of high quality casts. I appreciate it. Thank you so much for it.
15:17 I've always called the undiscovered area Black Mask and the unknown-but-explored area Fog of War. I don't remember exactly where I got the term Black Mask from, it might have been Populous 3. Sometimes it depends on the game, though. When you have a game like Brood War usually you call the darkened-but-explored area Fog of War, but in C&C games that doesn't exist so the blackened area is called Fog of War. 27:02 Lurkers! :)
Amazing game. I actually love mirror matchups the most, for me it's extra exciting to watch players finding a key to victory for their own race. Hoping there will be more of those on the channel!
That was mad game. S2 should have fought more. It was not finished for him at all it just the last attack of his mutalisks dishartened him and he was probably tired. :(
That was possibly the best match yet seen. Does S2's name mean he's an SC2 pro, but not BW? Because in many points it looked like he had the upper hand in economy and I thought for sure he's gonna win, but then he just didn't use that capital effectively. Would make sense if he knows how to handle effective economy in SC2, that it'd transfer over more easily than effective army composition and tactics. Did S2 ever scout the south-east base? This brings to mind a new concept for casting: POV. Disable shared vision with one of the players at the start, to get a very different experience in watching the match. Definitely don't do it too often, though, because this basic format is what everybody's here for.
Me watching at the start: ZvZ with two bases very close to each other? Both players scout the other one? This is gonna end quickly. Me watching at the end: what the hell did I just watch
I've seen every single Falcon Paladin Brood War cast and this has got to be in my top 5 favorite games. I physically cringed at the murder at 40:35 oh my god.
Yeah, dark swarm + lurker is one of the most powerful combos in the game. The lurker spines excel under the swarm since they are not effected by it. Late game ZvZ is all about lurker + swarm + plague - ultras were a bad investment here.. I was shocked s2 didn't make a single lurker, it lost him the game.
12 pool opener would have had the upper hand this game, also it's best to rush straight for defilier and adrenal glands and melee upgrades while defending your superior economy with lots of spore colonies and plenty of sunkens at the natural
S2 did not knew the plague did not affect burrowed units. He ran his melee army against the lurks but they all died because the lurks were full health.
Last time I built so many static defense, it was when I was 11 and played vs many cpu. Both players throws the game so many times. Most notable and high quality long ZvZ I remember was Jaedong vs Yellow in proleague, but I doubt somebody can dig a proleague replay like that :/
Most satisfying ZvZ ever. I'm glad the proxy and strategic use of casters (other than FP) led to a win. Also... what is this "StarCraft ONE" that people keep talking about... I've heard of a StarCraft II... but that was the sequel to STARCRAFT. ;-)
I am 38 seconds in and you said ZvZ then I realized its 48 minutes long! now im thinking sneaky twofurrrrr, but ZvZ is my all time fav match up and back in my time playing SC I think I could at least kill a couple jae dong buildings and some units HA!
Sweet thing to notice: the moment he ggs, he has 2 scourge hatching from an egg. One turns blue (neutral) but the other retains its former affiliation color (yellow)
@@FalconPaladin once a player leaves, all his buildings & units turn blue on the minimap however they retain their original color in the actual game. Units in production that 'appear' after a player has left spawn as the neutral blue. This highlights a feature that SC, SC:BW and even WC3 have - the engine actually does 1 thing at a time no matter how many players or actions are in the game at any moment. In this case, 1 of the Scourge hatched before the other. In terms of gameplay you wouldn't notice this design feature except if you played a great deal with Valkyries. They derp out the most because of this. It's also in part why the popular MOBA Dota had to break free from WC3 engine. There were certain things that were just not possible because of how it operates.
I am halfway thru the video. If green could squirt 3 or 4 acid spores on yellow's mutas, the green hydras would rape the yellow mutalisks out of the sky
When I first seen this in my recommended section as a 40+ minute ZvZ, I was like... "This must be the sneaky Three-For we've been waiting for!" lol. Also, I always thought that in the ZvZ late game when it got to that point, that drop-defilers would be the way to go. You could sneak one or two in your opponents base, plague all the structures, and they would never get an alert that "base is under attack". Plus a plague on Zerg structures is more devastating since Terran can repair and Protoss has the shields as a buffer. Let's make that strategy a thing in 2020 ZvZ lol.
40:25 s2 really shouldn't have attacked into all those lurkers without plaguing them first, or perhaps using a surprise muta attack on one of Gambler's bases to drive some of the hydras back home to defend. Lurkers in those amounts are best treated like siege tanks...pain to see s2 throw the win away like that.
Master class in how to throw a game. So frustrating to and so boring to watch when s2 was just sitting there, letting his opponent rebuild his economy. You were hoping this wasn't a game where the clear winner just sat there for 40 minutes. Well, this one had a slight twist, s2 threw the game after having it in the bag for ~40 minutes.
Ling/Ultra against Hydra/Lurker. Lings are basically nonexistent in this scenario and it isn't much different for Ultras with Hydra focus fire. God it was painful to watch that throw. A full Muta transition would have crushed the green's army since Hydras only do half damage against Mutas. These old games are really something else... both in good and bad ways.
(After the game) Man, this was a game of long, long waits between too short bouts of action. I feel like an ass saying it,, because I was asking for ZvZ, but this wasn't what I expected. Still, a pretty unconventional game of the matchup, so that gets extra points from me.
Oh my god this was epic from start to finish!
Yes and No... Although Strong Players, no where Pro, level APM is about 150 OFF. Once he had stole his hatch at the start, he should of simply gone Muta.. He's got 2 gas vs 1... Who goes Ultra Ling vs Lurker... They did some brilliant moves... and some moves were something I'd expect for a new player. Overall fun to watch. I'm glad they were good level, but not fantastic, because if they were. This game would of been done in under 10 minutes. Also, much more fun watching games where games can be won on mistakes. The Top Pros are so good that losing a drone early, can make the whole difference. One thing Yellow will look back the replay and notice he had to be a lot more aggressive when he was up. He can't let green get another base uncontested.
What do you mean pro AMP? Have you seen the foreigners? They float just around the same amount! This match was obviously not a Jaedong vs Larva, but not everyone can be Korean pro gamer...
I think it was fun to watch and were not many mistakes. And who doesn't do mistakes? Even Flash does!
i best and craziest ZZ game i've ever seen so far. I want to double like this.
Damn man, a rare late game zerg mirror, it's like a national geographic special.
What a game! If ZvZ meta would become like this it would probably be one of the most interesting matchups. Only thing that was missing is queens killing ultras, lurkers and defilers with spawn broodlings.
finally!!!
zerg win, lol
First thing I did was scroll down for this comment haha
That was the most insane ZvZ I've ever seen. Gambler's use of Defiler-Queen was absolutely incredible.
I could be wrong nowadays, but the concept of fog of war originally is the concept of knowing the terrain but not knowing the area or how it may have changed due to the effects of war. Basically why you only have pictures of what your units saw after they leave and not current information.
Im the blackout of the map is an active "mapping process" this concept was removed in sc2 because theirs no point in blacking out maps people have memorized especially when you still have fog of war
Isn't that true in command and conquer? Not sure about other games like aoe. Used to play a game called dark reign, probably had that fog of war as well.
@@Mustang_G aoe is one of the main ones that had three map types unexplored, fog of war, and clear.
Warcraft and starcraft however made no such designation as commands to remove fog of war revealed the entire map as well.
That being said games like aoe have randomized maps, and starcraft doesnt so blacking out the map in sc doesnt make as much sense, but fog of war is still used so perfect information isnt readily available.
Dang I can't believe I didn't watch this game earlier. That was great. The queen defiler lurker play was fantastic
So good! Queen + Defiler should be used more often.
Falcon: "I think S2 got this. I don't see Gambler coming back from this."
Gambler: Comes back.
And what. a. comeback.
Dang.
What a great game! Despite some say not gosu, I think every bit of this game is gosu and perfectly display what SC is all about! Both Zerg are great players and demonstrated lots of great strategy.
From range of the sunken placement, to try overload dropping early on, trading bases and final attempt to finish each other off, it was so awesome.
It's so easy as spectators to know who's got the upper hand, and what's the next correct move. But while playing, the anxiety will make most players impossible to decide perfectly. Both players really wanted to win and was innovative at all times, as I can feel myself pulled into their mindset.
Thank you for sharing!
27:04 the lurkers killed the ultra
I've been watching brood war replays everyday for about a month now! Rediscovered my love for Starcraft (although i suck). Thank you so much Falcon Paladin for these casts!
You're very welcome, zero! :)
thanks guy in the chat for referring me. thanks falcon for casting it.
Amazing game. Hive tech ZvZ really rare and always great to watch ;) thanks man
This has to be one of my favorite games I've ever seen :) - a ZvZ that goes into hive tech, never thought I'd ever see it
This is amazing. Absolute classic.
Glad you enjoyed it! Dang this is an old cast. :) Going through the archive?
@@FalconPaladin Kind of! Not systematically or anything. But you’ve got a great, well-organized channel so I kind of explore and sample things kind of randomly. Gosu. Epic. The big 3. You really provide a wealth of high quality casts. I appreciate it. Thank you so much for it.
@@michaelrowand898 No problem! :)
@@FalconPaladin :)
Best part of this video was "otherwhere"🤣🤣🤣.
15:17 I've always called the undiscovered area Black Mask and the unknown-but-explored area Fog of War. I don't remember exactly where I got the term Black Mask from, it might have been Populous 3.
Sometimes it depends on the game, though. When you have a game like Brood War usually you call the darkened-but-explored area Fog of War, but in C&C games that doesn't exist so the blackened area is called Fog of War.
27:02 Lurkers! :)
You just never heard the StarCraft, Terran Theme Song like this before! It's like Totally Gnarly Dude!
Amazing game. I actually love mirror matchups the most, for me it's extra exciting to watch players finding a key to victory for their own race. Hoping there will be more of those on the channel!
Watching those +3 Lurkers absolutely shredding Ultras.. 🤤
Once again Falcon, the pinnacle of the epitome of brilliance displayed by your Brood War casting. StarCraft is Life and Death ❤💀
me sees zvz expects some spicy 6 minute game, looks at thumbnail, mother of god, see's video length this is one for the ages
That was mad game. S2 should have fought more. It was not finished for him at all it just the last attack of his mutalisks dishartened him and he was probably tired. :(
Prob the best ZvZ I’ve ever seen. Really good casting 👌
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!
Finally a good ZVZ. More please Falcon!!!!
Does Dark Swarm protect against Sunken Colonies?
Yes, against all range that doesn’t have splash damage
I think some guardians could be a good option
that's an awesome rarity, to get such a long ZvZ. This was a real treat!
good job, you really relate to your audience more than the game itself :) I wish despite technology we still remember that we are humans.
That was possibly the best match yet seen. Does S2's name mean he's an SC2 pro, but not BW? Because in many points it looked like he had the upper hand in economy and I thought for sure he's gonna win, but then he just didn't use that capital effectively. Would make sense if he knows how to handle effective economy in SC2, that it'd transfer over more easily than effective army composition and tactics.
Did S2 ever scout the south-east base? This brings to mind a new concept for casting: POV. Disable shared vision with one of the players at the start, to get a very different experience in watching the match. Definitely don't do it too often, though, because this basic format is what everybody's here for.
That was such an entertaining game. Back and forth throughout the match.
Me watching at the start: ZvZ with two bases very close to each other? Both players scout the other one? This is gonna end quickly.
Me watching at the end: what the hell did I just watch
I've seen every single Falcon Paladin Brood War cast and this has got to be in my top 5 favorite games. I physically cringed at the murder at 40:35 oh my god.
It was not great from S2 there. :(
Yeah, dark swarm + lurker is one of the most powerful combos in the game. The lurker spines excel under the swarm since they are not effected by it. Late game ZvZ is all about lurker + swarm + plague - ultras were a bad investment here.. I was shocked s2 didn't make a single lurker, it lost him the game.
Great game and cast as always!!
Hands down one of the best ZvZ I have ever seen! Not gunna lie I was rooting for Gambler the entire time, he lived up to his name lol
Fog of war covers the areas that have already been scouted but currently doesn't have vision.
What a strange and awesome game! One of my favorites now for sure!
27:00 ultra was getting hurt by gamblers lurkers. You know.. Splash damage still works under dark swarm
Most interesting ZvZ I've seen in a long time.
OMG the ensnare and plague, what a game.
Best ZvZ ever on the channel.
12 pool opener would have had the upper hand this game, also it's best to rush straight for defilier and adrenal glands and melee upgrades while defending your superior economy with lots of spore colonies and plenty of sunkens at the natural
S2 did not knew the plague did not affect burrowed units. He ran his melee army against the lurks but they all died because the lurks were full health.
Fog of war is black. You know what the terrains are because you scouted it.
Hold your applause, just throw money.
love the back and forth great game
daaaamn ! this guy does sends the best replays !
Amazing cast! And a great game too.
I wish I could like this video a million times over. Great game!
Zerg versus Zerg?! PHENOMENAL, and so rare!
It was Lurkers under the dark swarm that killed the Ultra..
Last time I built so many static defense, it was when I was 11 and played vs many cpu. Both players throws the game so many times. Most notable and high quality long ZvZ I remember was Jaedong vs Yellow in proleague, but I doubt somebody can dig a proleague replay like that :/
The revealed one is fog of war (as I learned from WC2 when you turn it off). The one thats unrevealed is just unrevealed terrain
Most satisfying ZvZ ever. I'm glad the proxy and strategic use of casters (other than FP) led to a win. Also... what is this "StarCraft ONE" that people keep talking about... I've heard of a StarCraft II... but that was the sequel to STARCRAFT. ;-)
StarCraft 1 was released on March 31, 1998. Brood War was released December 18, 1998. StarCraft 2 was released July 27, 2010. :D
@@FalconPaladin Did you call it "StarCraft 1" back in 1998? We just called it "StarCraft."
this is the weirdest and best ZvZ ever because something other than Scourge/Muta/Ling/Overlord/Drones was made.
thanks to gamer taking the risk
Very good game. Was rooting for green cuz he had the balls to contain at start.
More gosu please! This has become my daily ritual
ZvZ is the only thing preventing me from being a zerg main. If more of them played out like this I think the matchup would be a lot more fun.
I am 38 seconds in and you said ZvZ then I realized its 48 minutes long! now im thinking sneaky twofurrrrr, but ZvZ is my all time fav match up and back in my time playing SC I think I could at least kill a couple jae dong buildings and some units HA!
Absolutely spectacular game!
Spellcasters good bruh! :D
Who else is digging that green on those hydralisks?
Sweet thing to notice: the moment he ggs, he has 2 scourge hatching from an egg. One turns blue (neutral) but the other retains its former affiliation color (yellow)
Nice spot! How weird. Wonder what the difference is.
@@FalconPaladin once a player leaves, all his buildings & units turn blue on the minimap however they retain their original color in the actual game. Units in production that 'appear' after a player has left spawn as the neutral blue.
This highlights a feature that SC, SC:BW and even WC3 have - the engine actually does 1 thing at a time no matter how many players or actions are in the game at any moment. In this case, 1 of the Scourge hatched before the other. In terms of gameplay you wouldn't notice this design feature except if you played a great deal with Valkyries. They derp out the most because of this.
It's also in part why the popular MOBA Dota had to break free from WC3 engine. There were certain things that were just not possible because of how it operates.
Thank you fort this link FP!
No problem!
Animal Planet: natural selection.
Narrator: Falcon Paladin
I like to think around the 10 min mark or so they both had no idea what strategy to do for the rest of the game since ZvZ never lasts that long XD
been pumped for this since u teased it in ur stream on sunday haha u rock falcon!
:D
I am halfway thru the video. If green could squirt 3 or 4 acid spores on yellow's mutas, the green hydras would rape the yellow mutalisks out of the sky
When I first seen this in my recommended section as a 40+ minute ZvZ, I was like... "This must be the sneaky Three-For we've been waiting for!" lol. Also, I always thought that in the ZvZ late game when it got to that point, that drop-defilers would be the way to go. You could sneak one or two in your opponents base, plague all the structures, and they would never get an alert that "base is under attack". Plus a plague on Zerg structures is more devastating since Terran can repair and Protoss has the shields as a buffer. Let's make that strategy a thing in 2020 ZvZ lol.
One day the threefer will come. One day.
Hope to see Zerg use sacrificial defiler drop to toss base for further attack
Crazy critters game!
40:25 s2 really shouldn't have attacked into all those lurkers without plaguing them first, or perhaps using a surprise muta attack on one of Gambler's bases to drive some of the hydras back home to defend. Lurkers in those amounts are best treated like siege tanks...pain to see s2 throw the win away like that.
best zvz in years!!!
Master class in how to throw a game. So frustrating to and so boring to watch when s2 was just sitting there, letting his opponent rebuild his economy.
You were hoping this wasn't a game where the clear winner just sat there for 40 minutes. Well, this one had a slight twist, s2 threw the game after having it in the bag for ~40 minutes.
Huge mistake from the s2pr0 Zerg , he wasted all that time and money for ling drops when he could have won with guardian rush vs super late tech
best ZvZ I have ever seen
Glad you enjoyed it! I liked that match a lot.
Finally get to see a plague/ensnare combo!
This deserve an epic tag!
It has a GOSU tag which is better
Falconi you have to do more mirror matches!
I wish there were more ZvZ like this
One coming next week!!!!!
I think you should add another game to the channel like war craft 😀
Right after s2 took out gamblers pool and hydra den, he had to push the advantage immediately, he would've won easily
I see 48 minutes , I come runnin’ - ZergSMR
Ling/Ultra against Hydra/Lurker. Lings are basically nonexistent in this scenario and it isn't much different for Ultras with Hydra focus fire. God it was painful to watch that throw. A full Muta transition would have crushed the green's army since Hydras only do half damage against Mutas.
These old games are really something else... both in good and bad ways.
For once I agree with falcys calls GO ZERG!!!!
kek :)
That one neutral scourge at the end cause he left tho
Yeah not sure how that happened.
Интересная игра.
What a sick game. Loved it
Brazil themed ZvZ 🇧🇷
Lurkers slaughtered ultralisks.
If you put gosu on a bw cast, you know imma watch it!
I remember my first zvz match.
How'd it go?
I went mass zergling and muta. Lol.I still don't play zerg well. More of a Terran player.
Nice. :)
I watch all the games because i know FP has the good stuff :p
Aww, thanks. :)
this is why, APM doesnt really matter much in pubs game
Ah, the ever elusive green Zerg, also is it just me or this is your only standalone ZvZ in your channel?
Not the only one, no.
I guess too much of chamomile tea for S2.pro in the end...
(This comment was made before watching the game)
This is a ZvZ... and 48 minutes long?? What is this, a sneaky 12-fer?
(After the game) Man, this was a game of long, long waits between too short bouts of action. I feel like an ass saying it,, because I was asking for ZvZ, but this wasn't what I expected. Still, a pretty unconventional game of the matchup, so that gets extra points from me.
GOOOSSSUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
S2's mother probably refused from her son that day
Can a defiler consume other zerg units? 🤔
100 defilers push when? 🤣