the industry need to push production costs down, 380 million dollars for spider-man 2, a game that doesn't revolutionize or push tech forward in any noticeable way is obscene
The quality of game devs have decreased significantly. They now need 20000 people at some SEA cost saving sweatshop to do the work of 20 devs from the past.
I think games of old might be dying. The data shows that people spend money of live service and F2P games. People didn't buy FFVII Rebirth, the highest rated game on Metacritic this year. Maybe that's not a good comparison, since FF seems a bit more niche these days. But the point is, games with microtransactions are thriving while your typical stand alone game isn't. I'm not talking about outliers like BGIII, but in general your standard single price game isn't getting the revenue.
@@TheEffectOfMassI think about this too sometimes. It’s sad but you’re right. The older games we miss are for gen x and millennials. Gen z(and now gen alpha) grew up with online mp/mobile gaming and shorter quick bursts of gameplay. Those $60/$70 single player games don’t appeal to them the same way. We hate it but there’s a reason publishers keep doubling down on live service. They have the numbers. Shame since Rebirth genuinely is the best game of this year and it’s sad it isn’t doing well.
Too many fish in a shrinking pond. Also, every fish now needs to eat more just to stay alive. Naturally, a lot of fishes need to die to reach a new equilibrium. Bigger companies need to downsize (by a lot), teams need to become much smaller, projects need to have tighter scope, designs need to have clearer focus. In essence, back to the late 90's - early 2000s.
@@christonchev9762 GTA is going to sell massively regardless, so it specifically might be an exception to the rule (for the moment), but stuff like Sony movie games and 100$ million dollar Ubisoft clones won't be sustainable if things keep going the way they are.
I'm pretty sure people like myself call it greed because the execs and the CEO's of these companies make hundreds of times more than the people who make the games do. It's not the consumers fault that the companies need unlimited growth (which is not sustainable). All that I hear from this dialog is "Well the companies don't want to look at getting costs in line with the state of the industry, we rather try to keep the party going and to push the cost on to the consumer." The AAA game industry is functioning less like a consumer driven industry, and more like final phase of a Ponzi scheme that is only going to ask more from the consumers, to continue the funneling the money to the executives. When you hear AAA game companies talk about how many studios worked on a single game, you know it's pure excess when you play them. There are way too many people involved, indecision prevents a cohesive vision, or innovation. They take 7 years to "develop", but the final product is made in the last 2 years, the rest was a wash. It's not the consumers fault companies are wasting so much money on making these games, and can't streamline their development processes or even stick to a vision. The industry has trained people not to buy a game on day one. Waiting a year gets you the game, and all DLC for less than the cost of the game at launch. If they put out complete games that were not bugged / unfinished to meet an arbitrary deadlines due to executive pressures, more people would buy them on day one. AAA companies gorged themselves on low interest rates and stock buybacks when they should have been saving for this rainy day. It's their fault they are in this mess, don't let them blame you, the consumer.
This comment. Luke is reaching for any napkin math Twitter post that feeds his narrative. This comment explains in much better detail the simple fact that w/e the expected ROI, the idea/vision of the game is what carries the profits, everything else remaining the same. Why the he'll does it cost so much to make the damn game, oh I know employing unnecessary people for f-ing 7 years for a game. Ya right
I 100% agree with this! Hearing people try to justify the corporate mess of AAA gaming makes me nauseous; it's going to be glorious when this all finally collapses on itself.
yeah, it's funny that a few years back , or even in 2016, games were just as large if not even sometimes larger in scope and they had no issue making them and funding them, then now, as the industry has never seen so many potential customers, it's not enough, blackrock are all the time behind the pushes to change the industry into full digital live service nonsense because they WANT to ENFORCE this change no matter what, everything is just EXCUSES to get there from the mouth itself of the beneficiaries of vanguard and blackrock working in the journalism industry telling you your standards are too high , that it's not possible anymore to make these games.
Triple A = no buy until dlc released and patches complete. By then it’s heavily discounted. If that means these developers are all going to shut down oh wells. New developers will come out that aren’t so bloated.
Execs are constantly looking at other successful games and thinking it's just easy to replicate without realizing you need to build the right way and also come out with something that can draw heads. You can't hop into something thinking you can just easily recreate that and expect hardcore loyalist to jump ship of the game they play every day and come to yours and start dumping mountains of money. It doesn't work like that
Another is expecting New people to come out of nowhere. There is no such thing as infinite growth. There is a Cap and that cap has been hit a long time ago. They are reaching the point that there Is no way to continue to grow, not for the large companies so they will fail, Always fail
yeah, it's funny that a few years back , or even in 2016, games were just as large if not even sometimes larger in scope and they had no issue making them and funding them, then now, as the industry has never seen so many potential customers, it's not enough, blackrock are all the time behind the pushes to change the industry into full digital live service nonsense because they WANT to ENFORCE this change no matter what, everything is just EXCUSES to get there from the mouth itself of the beneficiaries of vanguard and blackrock working in the journalism industry telling you your standards are too high , that it's not possible anymore to make these games.
There was a humongous boom for the industry during the lockdown times. That massive growth was never going to continue, but these companies are not happy to see profits not continue to grow, despite the fact that they still sell very well. FFVII Remake released at the very beginning of those times. Couple that with the insane anticipation, that had been built over literal decades, and Rebirth was never going to capture the numbers that Remake did. But again, logic and reasons do not matter to stock holders and CEOs.
Even without all of that I don't understand why people think sequels will financially out perform their predecessor. Gamers that played Remake and didn't like it aren't going to play Rebirth. Gamers that are interested in Rebirth but haven't played Remake might eventually play Rebirth, but there is an additional hurdle delaying the purchase. Even if a sequel is designed to bring in new players, most consumers aren't really going to see it that way. It seems to me that sequels doing better financially than their predecessor is an exception and not the rule. I don't have a business degree or any kind of qualifications so if anyone has more insight about this, please divulge.
@@sunchewei1069 Then there is the third crowd: they like Remake... But through PC. So those are probably waiting for the PC release maybe in a year or so.
@@sunchewei1069 Because people that expect a sequel to sell more than the predecessor don't play or understand videogames or gamers, they just want the numbers to go up, it's all they know and all they care about.
Game development budgets are getting out of control. Not even massive Hollywood movies spend as much as blockbuster AAA games do. Literally every game has to be a smash hit to break even, so no wonder why cosmetics cost $20 a piece. The only game that could get away with something like this is GTA 6, as it’s almost pretty much guaranteed to be the fastest selling piece of media ever on the first week. It’s clear that almost every problem with the industry boils down to this, and I honestly have no idea how this is going to play out. Games can’t just get cheaper to make on a whim without the quality or dev cycle taking a hit, so where do we go next? Games can’t get any more expensive right?
Hey Luke, listing to you talk about how indie devs generally don't find success got me thinking, what if you had like a once a month segment were you reviewed an indie game.....an indie spotlight if you will? Were you review or put a spotlight on a really good indie game that for whatever reason hasn't gotten any traction. One of the UA-camrs I watch use to do it and I loved it. It's honestly how I found Kingdome Come: Deliverance, What became of edith finch, Firewatch, Martha Is Dead, etc. Granted of the games I listed KCD is the only one most people would consider a game and the others they'd call walking simulators, but all of the "others" were short, artistically and visually compelling, and the stories had me thinking about the game for weeks after. You doing an indie game spotlight I think would be cool, I'm sure the reason why the UA-camr I follow stopped doing them was because those videos didn't generate the views compared to his normal content and the effort wasn't worth it, which does kinda disappoint me a little, although I understand. So maybe doing something like this for you would be viewed that same, or maybe you're already stretched thin, or just not interested. Anyway, great video as always, and I love the insight. Until your next video ✌️
Not everyone wants to play live service games all the time. Single player games are inherently a different experience and I think a lot of people move between the two and see them as some what separate things.
The problem with FF16 wasn't that it didn't appeal to a general audience its problem is it didn't appeal to RPG players it was a more cinematic action game.
“I didn’t rob the bank because I was greedy, I did it because I bought a $100M house I can’t afford.” How is that not greed? And if it’s something other than greed, how does that make it any better?
Except for the imbecile cancer people who keep crying that games need to be 50,000k resolution and run at 4000fps and with ray tracing and photo realism, be 1000hrs long. The cancer people that think grafix are just the end all be all. Welp all that costs money, games aren't 800mb big and take next to no money to make like they were in the 90s
The unfortunate reality is that companies have figured out that a bad game + monetization makes more money than a good game with no monetization. And a great game with no monetization is too risky/low ROI. Until this math changes, nothing will change.
I can’t remember. How much does Bobbi Kotich make? How much does Andrew Wilson make? How much does Strauss Zelnick make? How much does Yves Guilermot make? How much do their boards of directors make? Hhmmm… sounds pretty GREEDY to me Luke. 🤨
The most miraculous thing is that Rebirth took 3 yeara to make. The Remake DLC pushed the team back a year. Thats how important team retention is. They were only able to accomplish that because 80% of their team carried over from Remake to Rebirth.
The thing I like most about you is that you're absolutely based. You tell it like it is when you know sth and otherwise you state your opinion and make it clear that it is your opinion. And you stay out of politics. And frankly, as a German, I appreciate that greatly because I don't give a dang as long it doesn't affect me. So a big thanks to you and your team. Keep it up and all the best to y'all and your loved once
The sad part is in reality, that is the one commodity we have. I've learned to invest it wisely in the games I play, and there are many good games out there that don't kill the bank. Fortnite capitalizes on behaviors, which sucks cause its a very predatory tactic
I think a thing newer games lack is replayability, some people placing too much value on getting X amount of playtime and/or graphics. Firstly tackling Playtime Value; Min Wage (7.50 an hr) is roughly 10-12 hrs to get equal monetary value but in the same line of ROI, it'd be 2x or 3x as much for "profit". I don't need a 50+ hr game, that tends to be bloat territory. Adding replayability factor; ease of subsequent playthroughs (tedious sections, cutscene skips, forced characters etc), NG+, extra characters, new difficulties, unlockable costumes and so on. Best recent example: Rebirth has a lot of sections where you're forced to used certain characters, no loadouts means constantly switching materia between them, lots of minigames ruining story pacing. Remake has more replayability as it is straightforward, forced sections are fewer (also less characters means less materia switching and/or more duplicates already on everyone), no minigames besides dancing. Now for graphics; the pursuit of near hyperrealism has turned games from an interactive medium to borderline movies with a lack of unique art styles which used to be the norm. Yes we don't have as much "movie" games as people claim but they still exist, Ragnarok is a fun game but I don't want to watch every single cutscene every playthrough so that's out of my Replay Pile but just recently, HBII came out with a lack of fanfare because it's exactly what most of us thought, a movie pretending it's a game. Maybe if they focused less on graphics, they could've added another few hrs and have it be a proper game because Movie Ish games can exist (Asura's Wrath was pretty much Anime the Game). Cap America 1984 looks weirdly off putting because of the amount of detail everything has, it feels fake. First impressions matter, I'd rather graphics look cartoonishly funny than uncanny...
I do not comment much and this comment will get lost, but when you read games being either 10/10 or trash, that is another problem and it is even worse with Twitter and how it promotes negativity. Negativity gains clicks and views. Forspoken is an example for me. The game is not a masterpieve but it was not completer trash. It was a solid 7/8. The game worked, had some fun gameplay/magic, and more importantly it was a new IP that was created. The backlash to that game is one reason why we do not get new IPs anymore and yet "gamers" complain about getting the same stuff. The games industry is screwed because no developer wants to invest in new IPs and would rather make guaranteed money from these liv service games.
One of the big takeaways I got from Jabob Navok's breakdown is this. Company execs see which games make money. It's fortnite, warzone, genshin impact, etc. The massive tentpole franchises are not making that money. This is why we see more microtransactions, for better or for worse ("better" meaning, well if we like the game maybe the MTX will help cover the cost so people stay employed). As long as those f2p type games keep getting money, the longer these monetization schemes will be around.
I realized this year I basically need to forbid my 7 year old to play Roblox and other FTP mobile games. His little brain gets hooked IMMEDIATELY on these games. It’s scary. He has access to good games on switch, PC and PS5, but he’s addictes to the dopamine flooding of scummy ftp games. Luckily I’ve made some headway with his friends as well, by making sure they also don’t let their kids play bad games. If kids get to choose their games, good single player games are doomed! Time for parents to step up and moderating what their kids play. Not just by amount of violence but on whether the game is designed like a drug or a game.
Seeing the simulated numbers really doesnt invoke any kind of sympathy for the the people whos expectations weren't meant. It just highlights how out of touch and unrealistic the industry is at this point. If this is still the thinking at the top of the ladder, no internal change to compensate with the changing market, you really can"t be surprised at your own failures.
This might be the first time in my life where I really have no game/ games I’m looking forward to.. everything I would want to play is already out… for better or worse. Well besides the Elden Ring DLC
The only thing keeping SE afloat at this point is FF14 and their mobile games (which are very successful for the most part). I bet you if they didnt have people there that worked in the company since the 90s like Nomura and Kitase, they would not be focusing on console AAA releases anymore. SE wants an infinite money glitch, this is why they tried jumping on the NFT wagon and this is why they are never happy with recent releases.
The core of the problem is they are making 1 part of a single game every 2-4 years. Once ff7 remake is fully out and bundled in 1 package a lot more people will buy it.
"its always fortnight" -well when you have a growth spurt that launches you to competing with Minecraft and Tetris for most successfully video game ever yea its gonna change a lot for expectations on the industry. That just a basic aspect of reality that only idiots wouldn't know about.
They need to drop the numbers on the final fantasy series so people know right away they are all separate stories 16 would’ve been a perfect starting point for people
Wanting constant growth is a massive problem. Sometimes you game is only going to appeal to a finite audience, and you need to accept that. Expecting a big jump from sequels is asking for things to sell "below expectations."
@raskolnikov6443 uh huh. Sooner or later someone has to produce and sell something. If they just invest in stocks and expect someone else to grow, them they are nothing more than another investor and they are just trading money around.
I personally bought this game full price to support these type of games. But tbh with you guys I just couldn’t get into it. But to be fair I haven’t really been into new games lately.
The real reason why FF isn't selling well is due to lack of real marketing. You have to entice people who aren't gamers or are casual gamers to want to play your games, but they don't do that.
They're spending way, way too much on marketing is they are looking at 100M dev costs and 50M in marketing. Orders of magnitude off. In most cases, I might see a YT trailer and read some things on Reddit or see some game discussion come up in my feed, and I don't miss any games. Its hard to imagine where that money goes and if it has any negligible effect, but marketing should not approach 50% of your costs.
It is greed you are telling me a Exec is make like 30m and a developer is making 150k but the developers are too expensive??? and it's the consumers fault? 🤨
@raskolnikov6443 so it's nonsensical that the Exec job is to "manage" the company and its finances then they blow it and now it's the developers and the consumers fault that they didn't do their job rt and we as tbe consumers and the developers must bear the pain for the screw up of the Execs 🤔
THe opening statement seems pretty bizzare. These games don't just sell all at once, then just stop making sales. These games are on these stores more or less permanently. SKyrim for instance was made, the devs who made it have been paid, etc, but the game is still on the store and still selling. Same with rebirth and most other games. Even if the sales slow down, at some point they will surely break even. Red dead redemption 2, monster hunter world, diablo 4, and even days gone are amoung the top sellers on steam right now. several of these games were made years ago, yet they are still making profit for teh company.
I'm not sure if they can get away with selling GTA for $100, but I do know that my friends and I are boycotting the game this time because of how poorly they treat us PC gamers.
The idea that games are either hits or flops is only true in the AAA landscape. Indie or AA etc there are plenty of titles and devs that put out good games that maybe don’t blow up but still do well commercial, just because it doesn’t make a massive splash doesn’t mean it failed its all relative. The problem is cost and ROI level setting. The big companies aren’t interested in small titles and scope since they ROI isn’t viewed as high. So you load up hundreds of devs for 5+ years and put all the hope on the outcome of 1 thing. Companies should be shifting to multiple smaller internal teams with smaller budgets, diversifying and giving out more opportunities. Just throwing more money at even bigger projects means it’s just a bigger gamble. Money isn’t the issue at the moment, it’s the strategy.
That’s stupid ofc price matters, lower price = more sales, fact of life Im like you with anti addictive personality unless the product is insane good like stellar blade
Looks up the highest selling games last year…so you’re just a liar good sir. Every single game in the top 10 was 70 bucks and 6 of the 10 were microtransaction hellscapes. Meanwhile so many indie games don’t sell at all and get lost in the shuffle cause no marketing. Look up how many indie studios collapse…it’s even tougher than the AAA space.
Tbh GTA 6 being more than $70 would be greedy because Rockstar basically funded the game with their sudden amounts of bank they are making through GTA Online. It's the reason why they shifted from games every few years to BIGGGGGGGG BUDGET GAMES every 10+ years. Nobody other than Rockstar themselves convinced them to take up major budget scale titles. Why is it OUR responsibility to pay for their own scale?
But tbf if rockstar games make some of the best games ever rdr1 and rdr2,GTA series LA NOIR BULLY MAX PAYNE they dont rarely make back games plus lets say GTA 6 was at $100 for its standard edition gta 6 will last for over a decade if that happen $100 or more is worth it
@@batman124377the problem is that publishers are stupid enough to follow what they’re doing. if $79.99 is not enough most of the time and rockstar gets the increased base price privilege, other publishers will try to upgrade their own prices
@@KCJJB1it’d be worth it if rockstar actually makes gta 6 dlc unlike what they did with gta 5 where they ditched the idea when gta online became their main priority. GTA 6 though yeah will be very good and have much value, I just don’t really have that much attachment value just for one video game to play it for years and years and years. Plus rockstar sucks at their remasters so their studio definitely ain’t perfect when it comes to products that aren’t their main cashcow (which is still terrible but yeah those new games are good)
@@heroicgangster9981 But your acting like gta online was not going crazy for years dlc would be nice but gta 6 online is going to be bigger and so is the story all im am sayin is that rockstar is still making great game consistent for a long time
live service stuck around because the genesis of the model arguably predates even the internet. MUDs paved the way for online, evolving games. There is artistic merit to this. "Live service" is just the wall street buzzword for it because they offer consistent, high revenue.
The story in rebirth was 100% the worst part of it to me, multiverse plot is the lamest, easiest plot to write, killed all interest in the next one to me
I think one thing that may have hurt FF XVI is the fact that so many people (including established fans) hated FF XV. In series it's just hard to bounce back from a game that wasn't popular. Tbh, it seems like other than the remakes, FF fans havent enjoyed a game since before XIIIV.
There's nothing incomplete about FF7 remake as game, other than people insisting the full game should be the the "full story" that was in the original. Mechanics, gameplay, gameplay length(50 odd hours) were all completely playable and the story is internally consistent as well. Saying it isn't a complete game is like saying God of War 1, 2, and 3 were supposed to be just one game. They were also a story split into 3 parts, although each one has their own story arc and game mechanics which have similar foundations.
Literally anyone with a brain knew it wasn't a complete game...They literally made it clear that it was going to be a 3 part remake. The problem is releasing it when there are alot of other games going on, alot of people want to finish part 1 and the DLC before they move on to part 2. Then there are the cancer people who think that a game can only be enjoyable if its on PC at 50,000k resolution, run at 3000fps. Like part 1 they're release a PC port of Part 2 around September and it will be just fine. There is ZERO reason to release it on Xbox clearly that exclusivity ran out years ago with Part 1 and Xbots don't buy games, all they would have gotten were pennies on WelfarePass
This is why I think xdefiant will eventually succeed. They have the whole ubisoft universe to pull map ideas from and will perpetually improve from gamers feedback. Its refreshing having no sbmm and getting random games each match. I'm either stomping or getting stomped. It's very addictive
We're all forgetting why we all went into gaming. Gaming started as a medium to entertainment and fun. Stripping away that from equation leaves only business for business. And so, that's why nowadays any game doesn't meet any expextations (not only monetary).
That special feeling playing FF3 on my SNES was definitely my 8-year old self thinking “Sales of this commodity will surely outpace the anticipated baseline growth of the stock market.”
I been stuck on monster hunter world off and on for the last year and half. I hopped back in bc I never beat fatalis. Then beat fatalis and moved on and now I’m back again. Even my wife is like why u back on this. Idk game has got me. lol
square enix is the type that expects great sales for games that they do not bother to advertise sometimes too. Back when they had many opportunities to advertise NEO TWEWY, they didn't show it at ANY DIRECT or even their own showcase before it was gonna launch in 1 month. All the marketing they did was a mid-quality anime adaptation of the first TWEWY game that released ON THE NINTENDO DS!!!!!
Rebirth has been so hard for me to finish. I’m planning on lowering the difficulty and ignoring all of the Chadley stuff. That open world checklist stuff was an absolutely awful decision and I hope they pull it all out for part 3.
Shoulda got Stellar Blade homie. Haven’t regretted a minute of it. Still have Remake on my console and can’t even bring myself to play it because i know if i get into it i’ll feel forced to play rebirth and i don’t have time for all that lol
You can finish the game in about 45-50 hours just following the story objectives. Most of the side content is 100% optional. But honestly i think it's a game that get better the slower you move through it. I'm really taking my time with it, taking breaks and playing other stuff and coming back just finding it so great, not perfect but a really great modern JRPG. The game does not disappear out of existence if you put it back in its case. 80% of the big RPG like 60-80 hours I will always finish them in 2 or 3 sequences of intense playtime. Timing is something that almost no one talks about when discussing games but like any piece of art or entertainment it's paramount to the enjoyment. I feel like most players play games now like they are themselves a reviewer.
@@Skateandcreate9 I've already got 60 hours into Stellar Blade lol. Also, Remake is amazing and the story of Rebirth so far is great, but the additional open world "content" is a genuine detriment to the game overall.
It’s important to remember, for those of us that dig our feet deep into games and the happenings of the game industry (especially in the online world) that what we see and hear can be deceiving, just because a game is not gushed about in online forums, steam or publications does not mean they are failing, there are tons of games that come out every year that do not chart on steam and aren’t even nearly considered for awards and the like, however they are still commercial successes, many obscure indie/AA games are successful even without Douchefin McStreamer playing them, there are so many quality games to play that mainstream players overlook, I often feel like 90% of gamers are missing out. Unfortunately success is measured by giants and the little guys are just living their lives having fun, but it’s important we the players don’t forget to look beyond the trees and see the forest, sometimes selling 500K is enough, the game’s industry isn’t just the giant corpo bullshit, we should not lose sight of that, every studio isn’t 1200 people deep.
It hit me when you talk about price, as a kid I had to trade in games to get a new full price game. I always had a mix of used and new, always trading games to get a discount. Today you have to pay the full price or wait for a sale, there is no used games so $70 is a lot never mind $100. As a kid if I did not have the option to trade games with friends/shops id be 100% playing free to play games non stop.
@blackout1518 I was somewhat interested in the game, but the jeez the voice acting and dialog is a massive turn off for me. I understand why others like it, but I can't stand it
The only people who played it were people who loved rebirth, fans of the og who hated remake likely completely ignored rebirth so thats sales lost there, and since its a sequel few jumped in at rebirth ao it becsme a 'get to it eventually' situation, makes sense to me it didnt perform insanely well, for me it had waaaay too many pointless side quests and bloat, bigger aint always better, the plot changes just made me lose any interest in the next one too, not even comparing it to the original i just dont care for the new story
I think the key problem that no one seems to be talking about is populations across the globe are decreasing not increasing. America, Japan, South Korea, China. All the birthrates are below replenishment rate, so it is astonishing to me that these companies think the industry is just going to keep expanding when their audience is literally decreasing with each generation.
Censorship scared away the majority of Japan and other people who aren't a fan of it. Changing the story in the remakes also scared away a lot of fans. They can thank no one else but themselves for this all.
I feel like even without live-services we have such an aboundance of games with audience that cares less and less for the bestest of graphics - that it's hard to sell anything new, AAA or indie for that matter, if you have a plethora of discounted updated fully finished games at your fingertips - selling a less finished game for MORE money in that market is kinda hard. Sure, big social media hype will break throuth that, but something that is "just very good" will at beast break even. FF7 is interesting - because while Witcher trilogy did not had that effect - it also was much more playable without prior knowledge, even if it was a direct continuation.
To the gaming company executives setting these performance goals such as increasing player engagement and revenue from each player, every gamer is some sort of Schroedinger's Consumer. Gamers are continually expected to somehow increase the amount of hours and money they spend on yet another game on top of an already crowded sea of games, and also have sufficient hours and energy to continually earn enough money from jobs to afford the prices generating that revenue.
They didn’t break even in FFXVI nor FFVIIRebrith, both of which were very good games. This isn’t them having exaggerated expectations this is them actually trying to make and sell good AAA games for fair profit (which was an industry standard and norm less than 10 years ago) and people not playing because they’re addicted to fortnight or some other live service.
SE is one of my favorite publisher/developers. Although this is probably because I grew up in the 90s. I think their biggest flaw is probably their hubris regarding their top franchises. Everything else gets the shaft and comes out half baked.
even when the product doesn't come out half baked like with the world ends with you, square enix literally sent off that AA game to die. NEO TWEWY was Square Enix's own Hi-Fi Rush
its called entertainment for a reason. These bigger projects these big companies make become less and less entertaining because they have to make it appeal to a mass market. Problem is that gives Indi scene the opening to steal the entire audience with a smaller but better project under that gameplay style.
If they want to sell more copies of FF16, maybe they should consider releasing on PC. This whole exclusivity deal on Playstation doesn't seem to be working anymore.
rockstar games make some of the best games ever rdr1 and rdr2,GTA series LA NOIR BULLY MAX PAYNE they dont rarely make back games plus lets say GTA 6 was at $100 for its standard edition gta 6 will last for over a decade if that happen $100 or more is worth it. There are very few gaming company that have made consistent great games as rockstar so people are willing to pay that price you cant be a up and down company or a bad company to do what rockstar does
I just have to hard disagree, even Luke himself has brought up the fact that these companies are making millions each year. Nobody thinks that games like Gollum are raking in all that money, the greed arguments is thinking that they can do every game as a live service or long living game that will continue to make them millions when they don’t put any effort into it (fallout 76) and to be honest we reward them each time they do it so why would they stop now. That’s pure greed in my mind, thinking you can create shit games whether they are live service or not and that gamers will just sit back and ask for seconds.
This is nonsense. Companies like Square enix will go out of business if they can’t turn it around. They are not swimming in cash lol. They need to make hundreds of millions so that they can afford to make the next game. That’s how it works.
@@raskolnikov6443 then if they need to do that, then we must ask how they got into this situation to begin with. If the problem is overinflated budgets, then those budgets need to be scaled back, and so too.must the games.
If they cut out all the filler and just released one FF7 game, it would've been massive. But we'll see, maybe the last part will do well, kinda how it happened with Kingdom Hearts. The first and last parts are usually the most sold
original ffvii is just that, a smaller experience and it took 27yrs to make 14mil sales and released on everything to get that number. ffvii remake on ps4, ps5, pc took 4yrs to make half that many sales. So i have no clue what you are talking about. Mind you that everything is ps1, pc, ps3, psp, psv, smart phone, tablet, xb1, xsx|s another pc release, switch. Mind you it was on a system that sold over 101mil unit and in the height of jrpgs. So with that in mind, youd be wrong. The actual problem is the performance modes on these games. ffxvi runs like shit. and ffvii rebirth according to a vast majority of people looks like shit. Both had the same mindset due to this, will wait to play it on pc. So the sales were hurt because the performance modes actually made people want to wait it out. Now if it released on pc and ps5 at the same time the sales would have been higher but the problem would never have been addressed. Might still not be addressed. And thats the problem with this new CEO he doesn't have a fucking clue on why the sales were down to begin with. Its not that it only released on ps5. Its that the performance modes on them were so rough it made people who only care about 60fps not want to play them cause surprise surprise even people who only care about 60fps also care about graphics.
The only games I've played for the last 2 months are battlefield V, Fallout 4 and Civilisation VI. I don't known why I'm so hooked on gaming news and the like because I don't really care about many new games coming out at all.
With GTA 6 I’m like actually skeptical to get it on Xbox Series X or PS5 bc they’re inevitably going to release it for the next Xbox or PS6. The gaming industry has lost all good faith from me and I just typically will hold out literal years to get games when they go on sale or get an inevitable next gen release or GOTY edition
Addiction isn't a habit, it's a mental disorder. You'd understand the addiction when it's the only thing that gives you happiness or peace in your despondent life. People with no idea of how bad life can get are the reason addicts are looked down on and misunderstood. Educate yourself Luke.
As someone who grew up with final fantasy and has played every game (even the abysmal ff15) i dont understand why you would be surprised when you move further and further away from what made the games successful to begin with. They largely made their name from turn based party based rpgs. Ff16 was none of these 3 things. Im cool with companies taking risks and trying new things but then you have to own that when those risks pan out…this triple a trend towards including every single hot mechanic of the times needs to end. Do what you do best. If you try and appeal to everyone you end up appealing to no one.
I just left an identical comment: as someone born in 1998, I don't care about FF. I like JRPGs, that's why I don't play FF. It's the same idea for Bethesda or Bioware: turn solid RPG into casual slop, get sidelined by people who can do casual games better than you, realise you are stuck with the delusional half of your boomers. I like JRPGS, I'm gonna buy Xenoblade or SMT, I want to play a western RPG? Baldur's Gate or one of the older Fallouts will do. Modded Skyrim and Daggerfall will always be better than Starfield. Why buy 70 euros of bad JRPG when I am setting up a psx emulator to run Xenogears?
@@Lampoluke xenogears is great but a little bloated. I hope you have a lot of patience and like reading a shit ton…get a pcsx2 up and running the ps2 was a goldmine of great jrps. Shadowhearts: covenant is my favorite i played recently.
@@Lampoluke still a great game its just extremely overrated and for me wore out its welcome. Def worth trying for yourself though. But def need to put urself more into the mindset of reading a book over playing a game. Some sessions you will sit down and basically just read for an hour and a half with little to no gameplay and/or watch a 40 minute unskippable cutscene.
In case of AAA companies increasing cost of games and introducing mictransactions to them is still in my opinion greed. They could scale back the budgets or trim the fat from the company like Ceo benefits or consulting firms. Increasing the price of the games will just lead more players choosing the free to play games over paid games. AAA companies went on a massive hiring spree thinking that the revenue from the covid time would continue after the lockdown.
I just don’t understand how these games cost so much money to make. Once you develop your engine and hire your employees, costs should be relatively stable. All they had to do was upgrade the engine from Spider-Man 1 to Spider-Man 2 and then take three years to make it. Why did that cost $380 million? Where is that money going? Surely the salaries of your employees aren’t costing you $380 million.
Imagine the pain growing UP only on fortnite instrad of hundreds or thousands of good SNES ans Genesis and PlayStation Xbox GameCube games....non Wonder they are getting stupider by the day
The problem with the FF was exclusivity (sales wise). You could have gotten decent numbers with Xbox (1 million or so I would say) and a lot more on PC (I would say 3M + )
Guys can make smash hit games in their basement after work, the excuses from these big companies are such bull. Pick your talent, budget, and expectations accordingly and you won't get hosed. You might even make a good game.
Yeah I often hate how frequent I'll boot up Fortnite just to make sure I get pass items. Games like Overwatch where the pass is easy to get through and the big seasonal item the Mythic skin can be grabbed later with Blizzard not really making anything perma exclusive; I come back in peace and leave in peace. But Fortnite has its hooks in me from the exclusive battle pass items I've on and off collected since the first chapter. With the fact I've missed some great content and skins because I wasn't on for the time it was out. I've gotten friends into Fortnite where we spent hours upon hours and nights waiting for a skin drop or new season/chapter buying a pizza hyping up for it. I've gotten my girlfriend into it, my brothers started in it with me during save the world days. So not only have I dropped hundreds of dollars, thousands of hours; but a huge chunk of my life had at least a hint of Fortnite. So it's definitely hard to move away from a game that's been such an influence on your life. But at the same time can absolutely suck that it does.
Alot of the times the cost to make a game goes up due to micro managing and general incompetence, like SSKTJL. WB Wanting to break even is greedy because they deserved nothing less than financial disappointment
Personally I've NEVER touched a Final Fantasy game, I do see these games doing good and I'll prob play a FF eventually, looks fun but I'm picky with JRPGs, I also see FF as "niche" like Kingdom Hearts, VERY popular and loved by the fanbase, but FF and KH don't have that general appeal like GTA or CoD, to create FF games with GTA-like budget Can't be sustainable, without turning into CoD.
My view is that games have to make at least 2 times the investment. If a game cost 100million, the games need to generate 200million in revenue at least. Why? because the the first 100 covers the investment, the other 100 covers future projects. If they make over 200 that could be either profit or more money for more expensive projects and so on.
How are these devs spending 100 mil on games that have the bare minimum content and barely work? Elden ring dlc has more content than most modern triple a games. Pretty sad.
the industry need to push production costs down, 380 million dollars for spider-man 2, a game that doesn't revolutionize or push tech forward in any noticeable way is obscene
The quality of game devs have decreased significantly. They now need 20000 people at some SEA cost saving sweatshop to do the work of 20 devs from the past.
It's obvious most of that was pocketed for a 8 hour story game 😅
@@Gungrave123 The quality of LEADERSHIP has decreased significantly.
actually it was 350m $
HAHAHAHA @@iaqh
This isn’t sustainable for AAA gaming, it’s just not. The entire industry is going to breakdown into just live service and indie titles at this rate.
That’s what the consumer seems to want so maybe it’s for the better.
I think games of old might be dying. The data shows that people spend money of live service and F2P games. People didn't buy FFVII Rebirth, the highest rated game on Metacritic this year. Maybe that's not a good comparison, since FF seems a bit more niche these days. But the point is, games with microtransactions are thriving while your typical stand alone game isn't. I'm not talking about outliers like BGIII, but in general your standard single price game isn't getting the revenue.
Gross
@@TheEffectOfMassI think about this too sometimes. It’s sad but you’re right. The older games we miss are for gen x and millennials. Gen z(and now gen alpha) grew up with online mp/mobile gaming and shorter quick bursts of gameplay. Those $60/$70 single player games don’t appeal to them the same way. We hate it but there’s a reason publishers keep doubling down on live service. They have the numbers. Shame since Rebirth genuinely is the best game of this year and it’s sad it isn’t doing well.
Too many fish in a shrinking pond. Also, every fish now needs to eat more just to stay alive. Naturally, a lot of fishes need to die to reach a new equilibrium.
Bigger companies need to downsize (by a lot), teams need to become much smaller, projects need to have tighter scope, designs need to have clearer focus. In essence, back to the late 90's - early 2000s.
"A lot of fishes" 😂
Lmao. I'm not even gonna be that guy and correct you, because "a lot of fishes" sounds adorable and is making me laugh so hard
thats not possible cause then the next GTA won't take them 7y but 20y to make it IF they manage to pull it
@@christonchev9762 GTA is going to sell massively regardless, so it specifically might be an exception to the rule (for the moment), but stuff like Sony movie games and 100$ million dollar Ubisoft clones won't be sustainable if things keep going the way they are.
I'm pretty sure people like myself call it greed because the execs and the CEO's of these companies make hundreds of times more than the people who make the games do. It's not the consumers fault that the companies need unlimited growth (which is not sustainable). All that I hear from this dialog is "Well the companies don't want to look at getting costs in line with the state of the industry, we rather try to keep the party going and to push the cost on to the consumer." The AAA game industry is functioning less like a consumer driven industry, and more like final phase of a Ponzi scheme that is only going to ask more from the consumers, to continue the funneling the money to the executives.
When you hear AAA game companies talk about how many studios worked on a single game, you know it's pure excess when you play them. There are way too many people involved, indecision prevents a cohesive vision, or innovation. They take 7 years to "develop", but the final product is made in the last 2 years, the rest was a wash. It's not the consumers fault companies are wasting so much money on making these games, and can't streamline their development processes or even stick to a vision.
The industry has trained people not to buy a game on day one. Waiting a year gets you the game, and all DLC for less than the cost of the game at launch. If they put out complete games that were not bugged / unfinished to meet an arbitrary deadlines due to executive pressures, more people would buy them on day one. AAA companies gorged themselves on low interest rates and stock buybacks when they should have been saving for this rainy day. It's their fault they are in this mess, don't let them blame you, the consumer.
This comment. Luke is reaching for any napkin math Twitter post that feeds his narrative. This comment explains in much better detail the simple fact that w/e the expected ROI, the idea/vision of the game is what carries the profits, everything else remaining the same. Why the he'll does it cost so much to make the damn game, oh I know employing unnecessary people for f-ing 7 years for a game. Ya right
I 100% agree with this!
Hearing people try to justify the corporate mess of AAA gaming makes me nauseous; it's going to be glorious when this all finally collapses on itself.
yeah, it's funny that a few years back , or even in 2016, games were just as large if not even sometimes larger in scope and they had no issue making them and funding them, then now, as the industry has never seen so many potential customers, it's not enough, blackrock are all the time behind the pushes to change the industry into full digital live service nonsense because they WANT to ENFORCE this change no matter what, everything is just EXCUSES to get there from the mouth itself of the beneficiaries of vanguard and blackrock working in the journalism industry telling you your standards are too high , that it's not possible anymore to make these games.
Triple A = no buy until dlc released and patches complete. By then it’s heavily discounted. If that means these developers are all going to shut down oh wells. New developers will come out that aren’t so bloated.
PREACH 🙌🏻
Execs are constantly looking at other successful games and thinking it's just easy to replicate without realizing you need to build the right way and also come out with something that can draw heads. You can't hop into something thinking you can just easily recreate that and expect hardcore loyalist to jump ship of the game they play every day and come to yours and start dumping mountains of money. It doesn't work like that
Another is expecting New people to come out of nowhere. There is no such thing as infinite growth. There is a Cap and that cap has been hit a long time ago.
They are reaching the point that there Is no way to continue to grow, not for the large companies so they will fail, Always fail
💯💯💯
yeah, it's funny that a few years back , or even in 2016, games were just as large if not even sometimes larger in scope and they had no issue making them and funding them, then now, as the industry has never seen so many potential customers, it's not enough, blackrock are all the time behind the pushes to change the industry into full digital live service nonsense because they WANT to ENFORCE this change no matter what, everything is just EXCUSES to get there from the mouth itself of the beneficiaries of vanguard and blackrock working in the journalism industry telling you your standards are too high , that it's not possible anymore to make these games.
I don’t think they think it’s easy. Everyone knows it’s difficult.
There was a humongous boom for the industry during the lockdown times. That massive growth was never going to continue, but these companies are not happy to see profits not continue to grow, despite the fact that they still sell very well. FFVII Remake released at the very beginning of those times. Couple that with the insane anticipation, that had been built over literal decades, and Rebirth was never going to capture the numbers that Remake did. But again, logic and reasons do not matter to stock holders and CEOs.
Even without all of that I don't understand why people think sequels will financially out perform their predecessor. Gamers that played Remake and didn't like it aren't going to play Rebirth. Gamers that are interested in Rebirth but haven't played Remake might eventually play Rebirth, but there is an additional hurdle delaying the purchase. Even if a sequel is designed to bring in new players, most consumers aren't really going to see it that way. It seems to me that sequels doing better financially than their predecessor is an exception and not the rule.
I don't have a business degree or any kind of qualifications so if anyone has more insight about this, please divulge.
@@sunchewei1069 Then there is the third crowd: they like Remake... But through PC. So those are probably waiting for the PC release maybe in a year or so.
@@sunchewei1069 Because people that expect a sequel to sell more than the predecessor don't play or understand videogames or gamers, they just want the numbers to go up, it's all they know and all they care about.
tho Reb sold even less than 16 and 16 had lesss PS5 users than Reb so that tells us its declining and that has nothing to do with the budget
Game development budgets are getting out of control. Not even massive Hollywood movies spend as much as blockbuster AAA games do. Literally every game has to be a smash hit to break even, so no wonder why cosmetics cost $20 a piece. The only game that could get away with something like this is GTA 6, as it’s almost pretty much guaranteed to be the fastest selling piece of media ever on the first week.
It’s clear that almost every problem with the industry boils down to this, and I honestly have no idea how this is going to play out. Games can’t just get cheaper to make on a whim without the quality or dev cycle taking a hit, so where do we go next? Games can’t get any more expensive right?
Rebirth deserves more respect. Great game with no microtransactions and a massive amount of content for the price. It's a great deal.
But not when you cut the best ff games into 3 pieces and sell them as 70$ each
@@sethwing1725 cut and then add tons of meaty content. i think cut is not really an accurate term to describe the ff7 remakes tbh
It’s a great deal that not everyone could take advantage of due to exclusivity.
It's not a 1:1 remake. They fleshed out the story and characters from the original and added new characters and much more. @@sethwing1725
@@sethwing1725each game is different... L
Hey Luke, listing to you talk about how indie devs generally don't find success got me thinking, what if you had like a once a month segment were you reviewed an indie game.....an indie spotlight if you will? Were you review or put a spotlight on a really good indie game that for whatever reason hasn't gotten any traction.
One of the UA-camrs I watch use to do it and I loved it. It's honestly how I found Kingdome Come: Deliverance, What became of edith finch, Firewatch, Martha Is Dead, etc. Granted of the games I listed KCD is the only one most people would consider a game and the others they'd call walking simulators, but all of the "others" were short, artistically and visually compelling, and the stories had me thinking about the game for weeks after.
You doing an indie game spotlight I think would be cool, I'm sure the reason why the UA-camr I follow stopped doing them was because those videos didn't generate the views compared to his normal content and the effort wasn't worth it, which does kinda disappoint me a little, although I understand. So maybe doing something like this for you would be viewed that same, or maybe you're already stretched thin, or just not interested.
Anyway, great video as always, and I love the insight. Until your next video ✌️
Not everyone wants to play live service games all the time. Single player games are inherently a different experience and I think a lot of people move between the two and see them as some what separate things.
The problem with FF16 wasn't that it didn't appeal to a general audience its problem is it didn't appeal to RPG players it was a more cinematic action game.
It's still greed though. They flat out refuse to scale back their budgets to make a profit.
yep their definition of "breaking even" is making money, and making more then you need is the definition of greed
“I didn’t rob the bank because I was greedy, I did it because I bought a $100M house I can’t afford.”
How is that not greed? And if it’s something other than greed, how does that make it any better?
Except for the imbecile cancer people who keep crying that games need to be 50,000k resolution and run at 4000fps and with ray tracing and photo realism, be 1000hrs long. The cancer people that think grafix are just the end all be all. Welp all that costs money, games aren't 800mb big and take next to no money to make like they were in the 90s
some also refuse to make it available to the most amount of people (console/store exclusive)
@@TinyTusk😮😮😮😮😮❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
It’s not greed, it’s greed and stupidity. Or greed caused by stupidity.
The thing that is sad about Rebirth is that it fully eclipses Remake entirely as a game, in every aspect.
I really enjoyed this topic! The economics of video games is fascinating and you do a great job adding context/detail.
The unfortunate reality is that companies have figured out that a bad game + monetization makes more money than a good game with no monetization. And a great game with no monetization is too risky/low ROI.
Until this math changes, nothing will change.
I can’t remember. How much does Bobbi Kotich make? How much does Andrew Wilson make? How much does Strauss Zelnick make? How much does Yves Guilermot make? How much do their boards of directors make? Hhmmm… sounds pretty GREEDY to me Luke. 🤨
Bobbi Cockdik made 268m$ just from the Activision deal alone
The most miraculous thing is that Rebirth took 3 yeara to make. The Remake DLC pushed the team back a year. Thats how important team retention is. They were only able to accomplish that because 80% of their team carried over from Remake to Rebirth.
The video game industry and any industry's biggest lie... "Infinite Growth"
The thing I like most about you is that you're absolutely based. You tell it like it is when you know sth and otherwise you state your opinion and make it clear that it is your opinion. And you stay out of politics. And frankly, as a German, I appreciate that greatly because I don't give a dang as long it doesn't affect me. So a big thanks to you and your team. Keep it up and all the best to y'all and your loved once
The sad part is in reality, that is the one commodity we have. I've learned to invest it wisely in the games I play, and there are many good games out there that don't kill the bank. Fortnite capitalizes on behaviors, which sucks cause its a very predatory tactic
I think a thing newer games lack is replayability, some people placing too much value on getting X amount of playtime and/or graphics. Firstly tackling Playtime Value; Min Wage (7.50 an hr) is roughly 10-12 hrs to get equal monetary value but in the same line of ROI, it'd be 2x or 3x as much for "profit". I don't need a 50+ hr game, that tends to be bloat territory. Adding replayability factor; ease of subsequent playthroughs (tedious sections, cutscene skips, forced characters etc), NG+, extra characters, new difficulties, unlockable costumes and so on. Best recent example: Rebirth has a lot of sections where you're forced to used certain characters, no loadouts means constantly switching materia between them, lots of minigames ruining story pacing. Remake has more replayability as it is straightforward, forced sections are fewer (also less characters means less materia switching and/or more duplicates already on everyone), no minigames besides dancing.
Now for graphics; the pursuit of near hyperrealism has turned games from an interactive medium to borderline movies with a lack of unique art styles which used to be the norm. Yes we don't have as much "movie" games as people claim but they still exist, Ragnarok is a fun game but I don't want to watch every single cutscene every playthrough so that's out of my Replay Pile but just recently, HBII came out with a lack of fanfare because it's exactly what most of us thought, a movie pretending it's a game. Maybe if they focused less on graphics, they could've added another few hrs and have it be a proper game because Movie Ish games can exist (Asura's Wrath was pretty much Anime the Game). Cap America 1984 looks weirdly off putting because of the amount of detail everything has, it feels fake. First impressions matter, I'd rather graphics look cartoonishly funny than uncanny...
I do not comment much and this comment will get lost, but when you read games being either 10/10 or trash, that is another problem and it is even worse with Twitter and how it promotes negativity. Negativity gains clicks and views. Forspoken is an example for me. The game is not a masterpieve but it was not completer trash. It was a solid 7/8. The game worked, had some fun gameplay/magic, and more importantly it was a new IP that was created.
The backlash to that game is one reason why we do not get new IPs anymore and yet "gamers" complain about getting the same stuff. The games industry is screwed because no developer wants to invest in new IPs and would rather make guaranteed money from these liv service games.
How is he so sure that they "just try to break even"??
Because that’s a huge goal of any company. Otherwise you go bankrupt. Square enix is losing money.
@@raskolnikov6443 No it's not really.
One of the big takeaways I got from Jabob Navok's breakdown is this. Company execs see which games make money. It's fortnite, warzone, genshin impact, etc. The massive tentpole franchises are not making that money. This is why we see more microtransactions, for better or for worse ("better" meaning, well if we like the game maybe the MTX will help cover the cost so people stay employed). As long as those f2p type games keep getting money, the longer these monetization schemes will be around.
I realized this year I basically need to forbid my 7 year old to play Roblox and other FTP mobile games. His little brain gets hooked IMMEDIATELY on these games. It’s scary. He has access to good games on switch, PC and PS5, but he’s addictes to the dopamine flooding of scummy ftp games. Luckily I’ve made some headway with his friends as well, by making sure they also don’t let their kids play bad games.
If kids get to choose their games, good single player games are doomed! Time for parents to step up and moderating what their kids play. Not just by amount of violence but on whether the game is designed like a drug or a game.
Parenting has been a failure for the last 50 years
Give him warframe.
Seeing the simulated numbers really doesnt invoke any kind of sympathy for the the people whos expectations weren't meant. It just highlights how out of touch and unrealistic the industry is at this point. If this is still the thinking at the top of the ladder, no internal change to compensate with the changing market, you really can"t be surprised at your own failures.
You say this but you would not be able to offer any solutions.
This might be the first time in my life where I really have no game/ games I’m looking forward to.. everything I would want to play is already out… for better or worse. Well besides the Elden Ring DLC
Black Myth Wukong and Silent Hill 2 are presumably dropping this year.
Hollow knight: silksong for me
When is the last game SE released that did "meet expectations?" They say this every single release.
The only thing keeping SE afloat at this point is FF14 and their mobile games (which are very successful for the most part). I bet you if they didnt have people there that worked in the company since the 90s like Nomura and Kitase, they would not be focusing on console AAA releases anymore. SE wants an infinite money glitch, this is why they tried jumping on the NFT wagon and this is why they are never happy with recent releases.
Probably Kingdom Hearts 3.
@@JardsonJeanCunhaMirandathey’ll go out of business if things don’t improve. You people have no clue.
I am a simple man, I see Cloud in thumbnail, I click
The description of the guy getting Fortnite’s hooks in them is my experience with war thunder lmao
The core of the problem is they are making 1 part of a single game every 2-4 years. Once ff7 remake is fully out and bundled in 1 package a lot more people will buy it.
"its always fortnight" -well when you have a growth spurt that launches you to competing with Minecraft and Tetris for most successfully video game ever yea its gonna change a lot for expectations on the industry. That just a basic aspect of reality that only idiots wouldn't know about.
They need to drop the numbers on the final fantasy series so people know right away they are all separate stories 16 would’ve been a perfect starting point for people
Wanting constant growth is a massive problem. Sometimes you game is only going to appeal to a finite audience, and you need to accept that. Expecting a big jump from sequels is asking for things to sell "below expectations."
You need growth in a world of inflation and alternative investments. Stagnation means shrinking all variables taken into account.
@raskolnikov6443 uh huh. Sooner or later someone has to produce and sell something. If they just invest in stocks and expect someone else to grow, them they are nothing more than another investor and they are just trading money around.
I personally bought this game full price to support these type of games. But tbh with you guys I just couldn’t get into it. But to be fair I haven’t really been into new games lately.
Yes, putting things into perspective. I may not like it, but I understand the reality of what you're explaining. Thanks.
The real reason why FF isn't selling well is due to lack of real marketing. You have to entice people who aren't gamers or are casual gamers to want to play your games, but they don't do that.
They're spending way, way too much on marketing is they are looking at 100M dev costs and 50M in marketing. Orders of magnitude off. In most cases, I might see a YT trailer and read some things on Reddit or see some game discussion come up in my feed, and I don't miss any games. Its hard to imagine where that money goes and if it has any negligible effect, but marketing should not approach 50% of your costs.
The best argument against this is that they chose to make such expensive games. They could've made games more akin to indies.
People: shocked that studios keep making live service games
Fortnite: still one of the top grossing game every year
If you at first dont succeed keep doing the same thing over and over again surely it will work
It is greed you are telling me a Exec is make like 30m and a developer is making 150k but the developers are too expensive??? and it's the consumers fault? 🤨
TBF, I'd kill for a 150k salary
This is a nonsensical take.
@raskolnikov6443 so it's nonsensical that the Exec job is to "manage" the company and its finances then they blow it and now it's the developers and the consumers fault that they didn't do their job rt and we as tbe consumers and the developers must bear the pain for the screw up of the Execs 🤔
THe opening statement seems pretty bizzare. These games don't just sell all at once, then just stop making sales. These games are on these stores more or less permanently. SKyrim for instance was made, the devs who made it have been paid, etc, but the game is still on the store and still selling. Same with rebirth and most other games. Even if the sales slow down, at some point they will surely break even. Red dead redemption 2, monster hunter world, diablo 4, and even days gone are amoung the top sellers on steam right now. several of these games were made years ago, yet they are still making profit for teh company.
Ya’ll missing out not getting Rebirth, best game of the year so far
I'm not sure if they can get away with selling GTA for $100, but I do know that my friends and I are boycotting the game this time because of how poorly they treat us PC gamers.
Not a pc guy
What do they do to you guys over there?
The idea that games are either hits or flops is only true in the AAA landscape. Indie or AA etc there are plenty of titles and devs that put out good games that maybe don’t blow up but still do well commercial, just because it doesn’t make a massive splash doesn’t mean it failed its all relative.
The problem is cost and ROI level setting. The big companies aren’t interested in small titles and scope since they ROI isn’t viewed as high. So you load up hundreds of devs for 5+ years and put all the hope on the outcome of 1 thing. Companies should be shifting to multiple smaller internal teams with smaller budgets, diversifying and giving out more opportunities.
Just throwing more money at even bigger projects means it’s just a bigger gamble. Money isn’t the issue at the moment, it’s the strategy.
That’s stupid ofc price matters, lower price = more sales, fact of life
Im like you with anti addictive personality unless the product is insane good like stellar blade
Looks up the highest selling games last year…so you’re just a liar good sir. Every single game in the top 10 was 70 bucks and 6 of the 10 were microtransaction hellscapes. Meanwhile so many indie games don’t sell at all and get lost in the shuffle cause no marketing. Look up how many indie studios collapse…it’s even tougher than the AAA space.
You only think that about Stella blade because of the way the MC looks. and you know that don't you?!!?
Tbh GTA 6 being more than $70 would be greedy because Rockstar basically funded the game with their sudden amounts of bank they are making through GTA Online. It's the reason why they shifted from games every few years to BIGGGGGGGG BUDGET GAMES every 10+ years. Nobody other than Rockstar themselves convinced them to take up major budget scale titles. Why is it OUR responsibility to pay for their own scale?
You realize they cannot force you to buy the game, right? Vote with your wallet and enjoy your life!
But tbf if rockstar games make some of the best games ever rdr1 and rdr2,GTA series LA NOIR BULLY MAX PAYNE they dont rarely make back games plus lets say GTA 6 was at $100 for its standard edition gta 6 will last for over a decade if that happen $100 or more is worth it
@@batman124377the problem is that publishers are stupid enough to follow what they’re doing. if $79.99 is not enough most of the time and rockstar gets the increased base price privilege, other publishers will try to upgrade their own prices
@@KCJJB1it’d be worth it if rockstar actually makes gta 6 dlc unlike what they did with gta 5 where they ditched the idea when gta online became their main priority. GTA 6 though yeah will be very good and have much value, I just don’t really have that much attachment value just for one video game to play it for years and years and years. Plus rockstar sucks at their remasters so their studio definitely ain’t perfect when it comes to products that aren’t their main cashcow (which is still terrible but yeah those new games are good)
@@heroicgangster9981 But your acting like gta online was not going crazy for years dlc would be nice but gta 6 online is going to be bigger and so is the story all im am sayin is that rockstar is still making great game consistent for a long time
Lootboxes, NFTs, they'll try it all. "Live service" seems to be the only one that stuck.. they just need to do it well i guess.
live service stuck around because the genesis of the model arguably predates even the internet. MUDs paved the way for online, evolving games. There is artistic merit to this. "Live service" is just the wall street buzzword for it because they offer consistent, high revenue.
Not sure who Final Fantasy is for anymore. Seems like that audience shrinks every year.
For people who aren’t brain dead and actually enjoy good storytelling and characters in their games rather than just getting the next dopamine hit
The story in rebirth was 100% the worst part of it to me, multiverse plot is the lamest, easiest plot to write, killed all interest in the next one to me
@raziberry1595 Rebirth's story was extremely solid until the final chapter. Then it just became confusing and convoluted asf.
I think one thing that may have hurt FF XVI is the fact that so many people (including established fans) hated FF XV. In series it's just hard to bounce back from a game that wasn't popular.
Tbh, it seems like other than the remakes, FF fans havent enjoyed a game since before XIIIV.
Cool video, 👍
Kinda puts the additional microtransactions in Dragons Dogma 2 into perspective
The only reason FF7 remake sold as well as it did. People didn't know it wasn't a complete game. I promise you that it pissed people off.
There's nothing incomplete about FF7 remake as game, other than people insisting the full game should be the the "full story" that was in the original. Mechanics, gameplay, gameplay length(50 odd hours) were all completely playable and the story is internally consistent as well.
Saying it isn't a complete game is like saying God of War 1, 2, and 3 were supposed to be just one game. They were also a story split into 3 parts, although each one has their own story arc and game mechanics which have similar foundations.
Literally anyone with a brain knew it wasn't a complete game...They literally made it clear that it was going to be a 3 part remake. The problem is releasing it when there are alot of other games going on, alot of people want to finish part 1 and the DLC before they move on to part 2.
Then there are the cancer people who think that a game can only be enjoyable if its on PC at 50,000k resolution, run at 3000fps. Like part 1 they're release a PC port of Part 2 around September and it will be just fine. There is ZERO reason to release it on Xbox clearly that exclusivity ran out years ago with Part 1 and Xbots don't buy games, all they would have gotten were pennies on WelfarePass
This is why I think xdefiant will eventually succeed. They have the whole ubisoft universe to pull map ideas from and will perpetually improve from gamers feedback. Its refreshing having no sbmm and getting random games each match. I'm either stomping or getting stomped. It's very addictive
We're all forgetting why we all went into gaming. Gaming started as a medium to entertainment and fun. Stripping away that from equation leaves only business for business.
And so, that's why nowadays any game doesn't meet any expextations (not only monetary).
That special feeling playing FF3 on my SNES was definitely my 8-year old self thinking “Sales of this commodity will surely outpace the anticipated baseline growth of the stock market.”
@@None-lx8kj And that's why you're now a rich broker. Rofl
I been stuck on monster hunter world off and on for the last year and half. I hopped back in bc I never beat fatalis. Then beat fatalis and moved on and now I’m back again. Even my wife is like why u back on this. Idk game has got me. lol
square enix is the type that expects great sales for games that they do not bother to advertise sometimes too. Back when they had many opportunities to advertise NEO TWEWY, they didn't show it at ANY DIRECT or even their own showcase before it was gonna launch in 1 month. All the marketing they did was a mid-quality anime adaptation of the first TWEWY game that released ON THE NINTENDO DS!!!!!
Rebirth has been so hard for me to finish. I’m planning on lowering the difficulty and ignoring all of the Chadley stuff. That open world checklist stuff was an absolutely awful decision and I hope they pull it all out for part 3.
Shoulda got Stellar Blade homie. Haven’t regretted a minute of it. Still have Remake on my console and can’t even bring myself to play it because i know if i get into it i’ll feel forced to play rebirth and i don’t have time for all that lol
You can finish the game in about 45-50 hours just following the story objectives. Most of the side content is 100% optional.
But honestly i think it's a game that get better the slower you move through it. I'm really taking my time with it, taking breaks and playing other stuff and coming back just finding it so great, not perfect but a really great modern JRPG. The game does not disappear out of existence if you put it back in its case. 80% of the big RPG like 60-80 hours
I will always finish them in 2 or 3 sequences of intense playtime. Timing is something that almost no one talks about when discussing games but like any piece of art or entertainment it's paramount to the enjoyment. I feel like most players play games now like they are themselves a reviewer.
@@Skateandcreate9 I've already got 60 hours into Stellar Blade lol. Also, Remake is amazing and the story of Rebirth so far is great, but the additional open world "content" is a genuine detriment to the game overall.
It’s important to remember, for those of us that dig our feet deep into games and the happenings of the game industry (especially in the online world) that what we see and hear can be deceiving, just because a game is not gushed about in online forums, steam or publications does not mean they are failing, there are tons of games that come out every year that do not chart on steam and aren’t even nearly considered for awards and the like, however they are still commercial successes, many obscure indie/AA games are successful even without Douchefin McStreamer playing them, there are so many quality games to play that mainstream players overlook, I often feel like 90% of gamers are missing out.
Unfortunately success is measured by giants and the little guys are just living their lives having fun, but it’s important we the players don’t forget to look beyond the trees and see the forest, sometimes selling 500K is enough, the game’s industry isn’t just the giant corpo bullshit, we should not lose sight of that, every studio isn’t 1200 people deep.
It hit me when you talk about price, as a kid I had to trade in games to get a new full price game. I always had a mix of used and new, always trading games to get a discount. Today you have to pay the full price or wait for a sale, there is no used games so $70 is a lot never mind $100. As a kid if I did not have the option to trade games with friends/shops id be 100% playing free to play games non stop.
Rebirth failing hurts so much. The amount of work this must have Been is making Me Lose my mind
So much love poured into the game it’s crazy that people just ignored it
@@blackout1518 this happens when you dont release a game on PC these days so streamers can hype
@blackout1518 I was somewhat interested in the game, but the jeez the voice acting and dialog is a massive turn off for me. I understand why others like it, but I can't stand it
The only people who played it were people who loved rebirth, fans of the og who hated remake likely completely ignored rebirth so thats sales lost there, and since its a sequel few jumped in at rebirth ao it becsme a 'get to it eventually' situation, makes sense to me it didnt perform insanely well, for me it had waaaay too many pointless side quests and bloat, bigger aint always better, the plot changes just made me lose any interest in the next one too, not even comparing it to the original i just dont care for the new story
A lesson for not making games exclusive
I think the key problem that no one seems to be talking about is populations across the globe are decreasing not increasing. America, Japan, South Korea, China. All the birthrates are below replenishment rate, so it is astonishing to me that these companies think the industry is just going to keep expanding when their audience is literally decreasing with each generation.
Censorship scared away the majority of Japan and other people who aren't a fan of it. Changing the story in the remakes also scared away a lot of fans.
They can thank no one else but themselves for this all.
I feel like even without live-services we have such an aboundance of games with audience that cares less and less for the bestest of graphics - that it's hard to sell anything new, AAA or indie for that matter, if you have a plethora of discounted updated fully finished games at your fingertips - selling a less finished game for MORE money in that market is kinda hard. Sure, big social media hype will break throuth that, but something that is "just very good" will at beast break even.
FF7 is interesting - because while Witcher trilogy did not had that effect - it also was much more playable without prior knowledge, even if it was a direct continuation.
To the gaming company executives setting these performance goals such as increasing player engagement and revenue from each player, every gamer is some sort of Schroedinger's Consumer. Gamers are continually expected to somehow increase the amount of hours and money they spend on yet another game on top of an already crowded sea of games, and also have sufficient hours and energy to continually earn enough money from jobs to afford the prices generating that revenue.
Square's the kind of company that can sell 10 million copies in 5 hours and go "huh, thought it'd be higher"
They didn't sell 10 million copies tho
They didn’t break even in FFXVI nor FFVIIRebrith, both of which were very good games. This isn’t them having exaggerated expectations this is them actually trying to make and sell good AAA games for fair profit (which was an industry standard and norm less than 10 years ago) and people not playing because they’re addicted to fortnight or some other live service.
@@babarrett1 these days if you dont release a game on PC so streamers can hype it ,you are just as good as dead.
@@ppsarrakis probably one of the big reasons V Rising did so well, plus it’s a good game where you’re a vampire, wish fulfillment.
@@HDGaminTutorials it's a hypothetical
Great take on this and great thread by the guy.
Id say its the opposite about ff 16. Alot of hardcore fans didnt like it. Whereas a friend of mine who has never liked FF loved 16.
SE is one of my favorite publisher/developers. Although this is probably because I grew up in the 90s. I think their biggest flaw is probably their hubris regarding their top franchises. Everything else gets the shaft and comes out half baked.
even when the product doesn't come out half baked like with the world ends with you, square enix literally sent off that AA game to die. NEO TWEWY was Square Enix's own Hi-Fi Rush
FF would only ever sell so much. Especially if cloud or sethy aren’t in it. What are they expecting?
its called entertainment for a reason. These bigger projects these big companies make become less and less entertaining because they have to make it appeal to a mass market. Problem is that gives Indi scene the opening to steal the entire audience with a smaller but better project under that gameplay style.
I’m quitting my job for gta 6, using up all my savings for gta 6, staying home for 1 whole year for gta 6, anything for gta 6
If they want to sell more copies of FF16, maybe they should consider releasing on PC.
This whole exclusivity deal on Playstation doesn't seem to be working anymore.
I’d for sure pay $150+ for GTA6.. rockstar is not gonna disappoint
rockstar games make some of the best games ever rdr1 and rdr2,GTA series LA NOIR BULLY MAX PAYNE they dont rarely make back games plus lets say GTA 6 was at $100 for its standard edition gta 6 will last for over a decade if that happen $100 or more is worth it. There are very few gaming company that have made consistent great games as rockstar so people are willing to pay that price you cant be a up and down company or a bad company to do what rockstar does
I just have to hard disagree, even Luke himself has brought up the fact that these companies are making millions each year. Nobody thinks that games like Gollum are raking in all that money, the greed arguments is thinking that they can do every game as a live service or long living game that will continue to make them millions when they don’t put any effort into it (fallout 76) and to be honest we reward them each time they do it so why would they stop now. That’s pure greed in my mind, thinking you can create shit games whether they are live service or not and that gamers will just sit back and ask for seconds.
This is nonsense. Companies like Square enix will go out of business if they can’t turn it around. They are not swimming in cash lol. They need to make hundreds of millions so that they can afford to make the next game. That’s how it works.
@@raskolnikov6443 then if they need to do that, then we must ask how they got into this situation to begin with. If the problem is overinflated budgets, then those budgets need to be scaled back, and so too.must the games.
If they cut out all the filler and just released one FF7 game, it would've been massive. But we'll see, maybe the last part will do well, kinda how it happened with Kingdom Hearts. The first and last parts are usually the most sold
original ffvii is just that, a smaller experience and it took 27yrs to make 14mil sales and released on everything to get that number. ffvii remake on ps4, ps5, pc took 4yrs to make half that many sales. So i have no clue what you are talking about. Mind you that everything is ps1, pc, ps3, psp, psv, smart phone, tablet, xb1, xsx|s another pc release, switch. Mind you it was on a system that sold over 101mil unit and in the height of jrpgs. So with that in mind, youd be wrong.
The actual problem is the performance modes on these games. ffxvi runs like shit. and ffvii rebirth according to a vast majority of people looks like shit. Both had the same mindset due to this, will wait to play it on pc. So the sales were hurt because the performance modes actually made people want to wait it out. Now if it released on pc and ps5 at the same time the sales would have been higher but the problem would never have been addressed. Might still not be addressed. And thats the problem with this new CEO he doesn't have a fucking clue on why the sales were down to begin with. Its not that it only released on ps5. Its that the performance modes on them were so rough it made people who only care about 60fps not want to play them cause surprise surprise even people who only care about 60fps also care about graphics.
The only games I've played for the last 2 months are battlefield V, Fallout 4 and Civilisation VI. I don't known why I'm so hooked on gaming news and the like because I don't really care about many new games coming out at all.
With GTA 6 I’m like actually skeptical to get it on Xbox Series X or PS5 bc they’re inevitably going to release it for the next Xbox or PS6. The gaming industry has lost all good faith from me and I just typically will hold out literal years to get games when they go on sale or get an inevitable next gen release or GOTY edition
Addiction isn't a habit, it's a mental disorder. You'd understand the addiction when it's the only thing that gives you happiness or peace in your despondent life. People with no idea of how bad life can get are the reason addicts are looked down on and misunderstood. Educate yourself Luke.
As someone who grew up with final fantasy and has played every game (even the abysmal ff15) i dont understand why you would be surprised when you move further and further away from what made the games successful to begin with. They largely made their name from turn based party based rpgs. Ff16 was none of these 3 things. Im cool with companies taking risks and trying new things but then you have to own that when those risks pan out…this triple a trend towards including every single hot mechanic of the times needs to end. Do what you do best. If you try and appeal to everyone you end up appealing to no one.
I just left an identical comment: as someone born in 1998, I don't care about FF. I like JRPGs, that's why I don't play FF. It's the same idea for Bethesda or Bioware: turn solid RPG into casual slop, get sidelined by people who can do casual games better than you, realise you are stuck with the delusional half of your boomers. I like JRPGS, I'm gonna buy Xenoblade or SMT, I want to play a western RPG? Baldur's Gate or one of the older Fallouts will do. Modded Skyrim and Daggerfall will always be better than Starfield. Why buy 70 euros of bad JRPG when I am setting up a psx emulator to run Xenogears?
@@Lampoluke xenogears is great but a little bloated. I hope you have a lot of patience and like reading a shit ton…get a pcsx2 up and running the ps2 was a goldmine of great jrps. Shadowhearts: covenant is my favorite i played recently.
@@vivsavagex I like reading. I know that xg is unfinished, but considering that Xenoblade1 is my favourite game ever I think I will enjoy the writing
@@Lampoluke still a great game its just extremely overrated and for me wore out its welcome. Def worth trying for yourself though. But def need to put urself more into the mindset of reading a book over playing a game. Some sessions you will sit down and basically just read for an hour and a half with little to no gameplay and/or watch a 40 minute unskippable cutscene.
In case of AAA companies increasing cost of games and introducing mictransactions to them is still in my opinion greed. They could scale back the budgets or trim the fat from the company like Ceo benefits or consulting firms. Increasing the price of the games will just lead more players choosing the free to play games over paid games. AAA companies went on a massive hiring spree thinking that the revenue from the covid time would continue after the lockdown.
Bro just looked up the definition of greed.
yeah lol even if its not definitionaly greed, you can still call their practices out as being greedy.
that already makes him smarter than the average person
I just don’t understand how these games cost so much money to make. Once you develop your engine and hire your employees, costs should be relatively stable. All they had to do was upgrade the engine from Spider-Man 1 to Spider-Man 2 and then take three years to make it. Why did that cost $380 million? Where is that money going? Surely the salaries of your employees aren’t costing you $380 million.
Imagine the pain growing UP only on fortnite instrad of hundreds or thousands of good SNES ans Genesis and PlayStation Xbox GameCube games....non Wonder they are getting stupider by the day
The problem with the FF was exclusivity (sales wise). You could have gotten decent numbers with Xbox (1 million or so I would say) and a lot more on PC (I would say 3M + )
Guys can make smash hit games in their basement after work, the excuses from these big companies are such bull. Pick your talent, budget, and expectations accordingly and you won't get hosed. You might even make a good game.
Yeah I often hate how frequent I'll boot up Fortnite just to make sure I get pass items. Games like Overwatch where the pass is easy to get through and the big seasonal item the Mythic skin can be grabbed later with Blizzard not really making anything perma exclusive; I come back in peace and leave in peace.
But Fortnite has its hooks in me from the exclusive battle pass items I've on and off collected since the first chapter. With the fact I've missed some great content and skins because I wasn't on for the time it was out.
I've gotten friends into Fortnite where we spent hours upon hours and nights waiting for a skin drop or new season/chapter buying a pizza hyping up for it. I've gotten my girlfriend into it, my brothers started in it with me during save the world days. So not only have I dropped hundreds of dollars, thousands of hours; but a huge chunk of my life had at least a hint of Fortnite. So it's definitely hard to move away from a game that's been such an influence on your life. But at the same time can absolutely suck that it does.
Its greed if the only objectiv is growth, nothing has to grow infinitly thats just stupid.
I love FF but after they changed from turn based combat to action i am not that interested anymore and many friends feel the same.
I can't wait to have a 7/10 time with Star Wars in November
11:56 fair enough to those who love Fortnite but I have never ever ever seen the appeal
I wouldn't call the stock market "no risk".
Rebirth was a normal size game + ALL DLCs a normal game would get for ONLY regular price! 😎
Alot of the times the cost to make a game goes up due to micro managing and general incompetence, like SSKTJL. WB Wanting to break even is greedy because they deserved nothing less than financial disappointment
Personally I've NEVER touched a Final Fantasy game, I do see these games doing good and I'll prob play a FF eventually, looks fun but I'm picky with JRPGs, I also see FF as "niche" like Kingdom Hearts, VERY popular and loved by the fanbase, but FF and KH don't have that general appeal like GTA or CoD, to create FF games with GTA-like budget Can't be sustainable, without turning into CoD.
My view is that games have to make at least 2 times the investment. If a game cost 100million, the games need to generate 200million in revenue at least. Why? because the the first 100 covers the investment, the other 100 covers future projects. If they make over 200 that could be either profit or more money for more expensive projects and so on.
Bro we get it, gta can do what they want. We really didn’t need you waxing poetic on it forever to know that.
How are these devs spending 100 mil on games that have the bare minimum content and barely work?
Elden ring dlc has more content than most modern triple a games.
Pretty sad.
It’s 100 percent corporate greed.