Yup, as a life long hobbyist and son of one as well, I often spend as much time making tools for a project then I do on the actual project. You never throw out "broken tools" or "Scrap Materials" because you should always be willing to Reuse, Repurpose, Recycle.. anything and everything is raw material. Great presentation, Sir!
In twist drills the shank is usually left much softer than flutes and the cutting end so that chuck jaws are able to grab it reliably. So if you want them to hold their edge better you need to heat treat them. End mills are usually equally hard throughout.
My mistake about not mentioning that in the video, but even with the soft shanks they are perfectly adequate as cutting tools for brass, aluminium and practice. They seem to hold their edge just fine. I will have to make a follow up to this because heat treating hss is in some ways different to regular carbon steel. And you are right, end mills are usually through hardened. Cheers
One thing to be aware of with aluminium, especially if you're not using free machining grade is the edge build up. Requires a really shiny polish on the cutting edge to let the swarf to slip off and a positive rake.
HSS drill bits destined for the bin ? Ha! been machining since I had to stand on a stool to reach the lathe ( I was about 7 years old ) and I haven't thrown much HSS away, I sharpen, re-sharpen and modify drill bits. I also use old hacksaw blades for stuff. I have made tools out of plain mild steel, unhardened for cutting leather and wood, and they last a surprisingly long time. A good way of differentiating good twist drills from bad is to see if they're ground flutes ( good ) or rolled flutes ( #### ), if they have a ground corner at the end of the flute it's a god one, if it's rounded and undefined it's not. Great vid again, thanks.
That's why you should stick to machining softer materials like I said, and they stand up to those materials with no issue, and I have made a lot of tools this way over the past year. I was going to look into heat treatment of hss, but it is a bit beyond what I can do in this workshop. Machinery's handbook has a great breakdown of the method. This method is not optimal for tools that will be used extensively, as they have the heat treatment and grade disadvantage, but it is certainly a great use for discarded drills. Cheers
Where I had limited success just by heating parts with a propane torch. You could try various different degrees turn it blue then red and then simply quench in water or oil and then test it with a file sometimes it works. The drills shanks are usually made out of the same material but it's just the cutting edge of the drill which is drawn do a harden state.
@@keithjohnson3883 I think the drill shaft is harder near where the twist grooves ends. I mean I would try to grind the cutting profile into that end. Some older twist drills might be harder throughout but newer stuff is soft where it will be tightened to drill chuck.
I guess it should be tested, say with a file to see the extent of the hardening. Though how it responds when being ground would give some indication right away.
very intriguing, thank you for showing. one can also buy broken HSS tooling, endmills, taps etc as scrap from ebay etc. that way, you don't have to break your own endmills... ;-)
I do this but with carbide shank tools, like old end mills. A Dbit grinder makes short work of it and they become amazing tools. Carbide blanks in 1/8 and 3/16 are really cheap and make for some amazing small stock boring bars. Great stuff.
Allen keys did not occur to me. I had a look and mine are either chrome moly or high carbon steel, so they should work for aluminium or brass. I will need to give this a go. Cheers
I wouldn't use old allen keys for lathe tools, however because it's a very tough heat treated steel I would use it for something that needs to be strong.
No surprise since the drill chuck can scuff them up, but it is still harder than Aluminium and brass and has no trouble at all acting as a short term cutting tool. Done this method several times over the year and had no issue. Plus it's a great way to recycle discarded tools. Cheers . Edit: Spent some time testing the hardness of end mills and drill shanks today and the results were surprising on how much they varied, will be posting an update to this video soon.
@@artisanmakes End Mills tend to Be hardened a bit longer on The shaft thn twist drills, so generally you will have better luck using those. However, guhring twist drills are often hard throughout the shank.
The shank of drills is soft, that's why they chew up when they slip in the chuck. Why not grind the hss fluted end to do the cutting? It's a bit trickier because of the flutes but often doable providing the drill is not too small.
That's why you should stick to machining softer materials like I said, and they stand up to those materials with no issue, and I have made a lot of tools this way over the past year. It may be soft but is is much harder than aluminum and brass. I have also tried to grind tools into the flute end, since I was aware of the softness of the shanks and there is not much that can be done, there just isn't enough material on that end. I will be posting a video later this week to clear up a few things that I left out of this relatively short video. Cheers
@@artisanmakes Precisely. I would think that the only HSS bit that would have enough meat left over after you removed its (turned down) flutes would need to be at least a 1in drill bit, but with those any machinist knows how damn expensive those are while being very easy to resharpen. For me if it is less than 1/2in I toss them and above I get them resharpened (I suck at sharpening anything). At least for my Aluminium, and plastic (I don't do brass yet), I can get more use out of the old broken, and/or dull, bits.
Notable hints. Not all HSS bit are factory hardened from tip to tip, only a small fraction of shank by the fluke get hardening. Page 5:58 assume shank rear end is HSS hard may lead to disappointment. Remedy? Add quench and temper to the shank aimed as a cutting edge.
Quality twist drills will be made from M2 which is a tungsten-molybdenum steel. The modulus of elasticity of tungsten is roughly twice that of steel which I suspect accounts for any apparent difference in flexure between the two.
I need to ask, but the grub screw you use to hold the bit/end mill, wouldn't it be better (and safer) if you ground one side a bit flat, so the grub screw 100% prevented the bit/end mill from ever even thinking about twisting?
I never thought of that. I have quite a few dull or burnt drill bits, some of Bosch quality. once my lathe arrives, I will have to try making some tools. do people actually use the metal lathes to turn or drill the wooden parts as well? not talking about turning a bowl, but some small wooden parts for various applications.
Love the idea! Especially the realization that I could use drill rod or any type of material suitable for the task. I've ground many tools for specific use and holding them has at times been troublesome. Lol
if you have or make a good fixture you can greatly improve the quality of your tools I use a Diamond wheel to grind mine from Solid Carbide bits. Also i use a Wire EDM to make the basic shape, for instance the flat top, I made Turning and boring bits out of Solid Carbide with this method.
@@artisanmakes You're very welcome. We like your work. Feel free to email me at "jon" at our url, and I'll send you a free code so you can join our forum and post your videos whenever you want. Looks like you're one of us :)
A very interesting idea. I'm now thinking of all the drill bits I have thrown out... Just one question - the single grub screw is enough to keep the tool aligned? No need for lock tight in the holder?
Nice idea - especially for softer materials. I do really enjoy the creative approach shown in your videos. I always keep broken cutters and drills in a "scrap bin" for repurposing. Your method also works well with broken carbide cutters, e.g. endmills. They make excellent tools to be used with boring bars. You need a diamond tool for grinding them though. Even a diamond file will do (with some effort), if you don't have a dedicated grinder. See the following snippet as an example ua-cam.com/video/KYla2pa13lQ/v-deo.html
Two flute end mills with one broken side make excellent boring tools. The unfortunate thing about twist drill bits is the shanks are normally tempered to a much lower Rockwell C rating than the flutes.
My mistake about not mentioning that in the video, but even with the soft shanks they are perfectly adequate as cutting tools for brass, aluminium and practice, cheers.
I've always wondered why he uses a hacksaw and very rarely uses a angle grinder or even a bandsaw of sorts, I hate using a damn hacksaw, takes forever to cut thicker stock,
![Making of: Small precize lathe tool out of broken drill bits [M4 internal thread cutting]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/k2a9ywCEK_A/mqdefault.jpg)
Yup, as a life long hobbyist and son of one as well, I often spend as much time making tools for a project then I do on the actual project. You never throw out "broken tools" or "Scrap Materials" because you should always be willing to Reuse, Repurpose, Recycle.. anything and everything is raw material.
Great presentation, Sir!
In twist drills the shank is usually left much softer than flutes and the cutting end so that chuck jaws are able to grab it reliably. So if you want them to hold their edge better you need to heat treat them. End mills are usually equally hard throughout.
My mistake about not mentioning that in the video, but even with the soft shanks they are perfectly adequate as cutting tools for brass, aluminium and practice. They seem to hold their edge just fine. I will have to make a follow up to this because heat treating hss is in some ways different to regular carbon steel. And you are right, end mills are usually through hardened. Cheers
One thing to be aware of with aluminium, especially if you're not using free machining grade is the edge build up. Requires a really shiny polish on the cutting edge to let the swarf to slip off and a positive rake.
really really really shiny.. more shiney = bettererr
HSS drill bits destined for the bin ? Ha! been machining since I had to stand on a stool to reach the lathe ( I was about 7 years old ) and I haven't thrown much HSS away, I sharpen, re-sharpen and modify drill bits. I also use old hacksaw blades for stuff. I have made tools out of plain mild steel, unhardened for cutting leather and wood, and they last a surprisingly long time. A good way of differentiating good twist drills from bad is to see if they're ground flutes ( good ) or rolled flutes ( #### ), if they have a ground corner at the end of the flute it's a god one, if it's rounded and undefined it's not.
Great vid again, thanks.
Great project and use of broken bits.
Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge it has upped my tool-steel making game. I fabricate replacement parts for ATV, mowers, and sub-compact tractors.
By using the shank on a twist drill it's soft material not heat treated like the rest of the drill
That's why you should stick to machining softer materials like I said, and they stand up to those materials with no issue, and I have made a lot of tools this way over the past year. I was going to look into heat treatment of hss, but it is a bit beyond what I can do in this workshop. Machinery's handbook has a great breakdown of the method.
This method is not optimal for tools that will be used extensively, as they have the heat treatment and grade disadvantage, but it is certainly a great use for discarded drills. Cheers
Where I had limited success just by heating parts with a propane torch.
You could try various different degrees turn it blue then red and then simply quench in water or oil and then test it with a file sometimes it works.
The drills shanks are usually made out of the same material but it's just the cutting edge of the drill which is drawn do a harden state.
@@keithjohnson3883 I think the drill shaft is harder near where the twist grooves ends. I mean I would try to grind the cutting profile into that end. Some older twist drills might be harder throughout but newer stuff is soft where it will be tightened to drill chuck.
I guess it should be tested, say with a file to see the extent of the hardening. Though how it responds when being ground would give some indication right away.
very intriguing, thank you for showing. one can also buy broken HSS tooling, endmills, taps etc as scrap from ebay etc. that way, you don't have to break your own endmills... ;-)
I do basically the same on some of my hobby tasks, but using broken carbide endmills, they do a great job especially on fly cutters...
I do this but with carbide shank tools, like old end mills. A Dbit grinder makes short work of it and they become amazing tools. Carbide blanks in 1/8 and 3/16 are really cheap and make for some amazing small stock boring bars. Great stuff.
Great video. I have done basically the same thing with old allen wrenches for machining brass or aluminum parts
Allen keys did not occur to me. I had a look and mine are either chrome moly or high carbon steel, so they should work for aluminium or brass. I will need to give this a go. Cheers
I wouldn't use old allen keys for lathe tools, however because it's a very tough heat treated steel I would use it for something that needs to be strong.
Great effort making these experimental bits.
You may as well grind a tool out of the 22mm hot rolled steel. Drill shanks are soft as butter by design.
No surprise since the drill chuck can scuff them up, but it is still harder than Aluminium and brass and has no trouble at all acting as a short term cutting tool. Done this method several times over the year and had no issue. Plus it's a great way to recycle discarded tools. Cheers . Edit: Spent some time testing the hardness of end mills and drill shanks today and the results were surprising on how much they varied, will be posting an update to this video soon.
@@artisanmakes End Mills tend to Be hardened a bit longer on The shaft thn twist drills, so generally you will have better luck using those. However, guhring twist drills are often hard throughout the shank.
The shank of drills is soft, that's why they chew up when they slip in the chuck. Why not grind the hss fluted end to do the cutting? It's a bit trickier because of the flutes but often doable providing the drill is not too small.
That's why you should stick to machining softer materials like I said, and they stand up to those materials with no issue, and I have made a lot of tools this way over the past year. It may be soft but is is much harder than aluminum and brass. I have also tried to grind tools into the flute end, since I was aware of the softness of the shanks and there is not much that can be done, there just isn't enough material on that end. I will be posting a video later this week to clear up a few things that I left out of this relatively short video. Cheers
@@artisanmakes Precisely. I would think that the only HSS bit that would have enough meat left over after you removed its (turned down) flutes would need to be at least a 1in drill bit, but with those any machinist knows how damn expensive those are while being very easy to resharpen. For me if it is less than 1/2in I toss them and above I get them resharpened (I suck at sharpening anything). At least for my Aluminium, and plastic (I don't do brass yet), I can get more use out of the old broken, and/or dull, bits.
In that end youd get a far less stiff profile due to the flutes. In the other end theres a thicker stock
Notable hints.
Not all HSS bit are factory hardened from tip to tip, only a small fraction of shank by the fluke get hardening. Page 5:58 assume shank rear end is HSS hard may lead to disappointment. Remedy? Add quench and temper to the shank aimed as a cutting edge.
Quality twist drills will be made from M2 which is a tungsten-molybdenum steel. The modulus of elasticity of tungsten is roughly twice that of steel which I suspect accounts for any apparent difference in flexure between the two.
I was thinking of doing the same. Got a fair few broken carbide milling cutters that I can repurpose and they'd be able to handle tougher materials.
Send them my way please
I need to ask, but the grub screw you use to hold the bit/end mill, wouldn't it be better (and safer) if you ground one side a bit flat, so the grub screw 100% prevented the bit/end mill from ever even thinking about twisting?
Interesting idea , thanks 😊
What grit is/are needed to grind and finish these HSS shanks ? …
Nice job! Really appreciate the work you put into the video. Great idea and presentation.
This video is so helpful. Thanks😘
I never thought of that. I have quite a few dull or burnt drill bits, some of Bosch quality.
once my lathe arrives, I will have to try making some tools.
do people actually use the metal lathes to turn or drill the wooden parts as well? not talking about turning a bowl, but some small wooden parts for various applications.
Love the idea! Especially the realization that I could use drill rod or any type of material suitable for the task. I've ground many tools for specific use and holding them has at times been troublesome. Lol
if you have or make a good fixture you can greatly improve the quality of your tools
I use a Diamond wheel to grind mine from Solid Carbide bits.
Also i use a Wire EDM to make the basic shape, for instance the flat top,
I made Turning and boring bits out of Solid Carbide with this method.
This is quite usefull I dont doubt my parents have a surplus of broken drill bits😛
Good work. We posted this video on our homemade tools forum this week :)
Cheers. I am a big fan of the forum and the work put into it. Thankyou
@@artisanmakes You're very welcome. We like your work. Feel free to email me at "jon" at our url, and I'll send you a free code so you can join our forum and post your videos whenever you want. Looks like you're one of us :)
Very good, thanks
Blacksmiths use linseed oil like this all the time. My go to method.
I can never walk past the "broken carbide" bucket at work without checking for useful-looking pieces.
I would have liked to see you grinding that chip breaker.
Great idea. 👍
Funny how people don't read the comments before piping about the shanks not being hardened 🤣
Any tips for grinding carbide end mills? I have a bunch of broken carbide but I have no idea how to grind it
Green grinding wheel or diamond grinding wheel
A very interesting idea. I'm now thinking of all the drill bits I have thrown out... Just one question - the single grub screw is enough to keep the tool aligned? No need for lock tight in the holder?
I would grind a notch for the set screw to seat in.
Nice idea - especially for softer materials.
I do really enjoy the creative approach shown in your videos.
I always keep broken cutters and drills in a "scrap bin" for repurposing. Your method also works well with broken carbide cutters, e.g. endmills. They make excellent tools to be used with boring bars. You need a diamond tool for grinding them though. Even a diamond file will do (with some effort), if you don't have a dedicated grinder.
See the following snippet as an example ua-cam.com/video/KYla2pa13lQ/v-deo.html
Two flute end mills with one broken side make excellent boring tools. The unfortunate thing about twist drill bits is the shanks are normally tempered to a much lower Rockwell C rating than the flutes.
Yep, but after you turn down the flutes you don't actually have any meat left short of a 1in drill bit that can easily be resharpened.
need to know what grade hss is the best
can you help me pls?🙏
great channel.
Good drill bits have a softer shank to shatter less and not chew your chuck up
My mistake about not mentioning that in the video, but even with the soft shanks they are perfectly adequate as cutting tools for brass, aluminium and practice, cheers.
Wouldn't it be easier to anneal the bit, grind to shape, then re-harden & temper?
Annealing and hardening hss is a very different process to carbon steel and it can not be done properly in a home workshop
Thanks.
Mantap.👍👍
Tap and end mill shanks are hard as woodpecker lips. Better use them if you got them.
Ever since I got a mill I have a good supply of broken end mill shanks :)
Nice
I've always wondered why he uses a hacksaw and very rarely uses a angle grinder or even a bandsaw of sorts, I hate using a damn hacksaw, takes forever to cut thicker stock,
HSS drill bits with a higher cobalt content are much harder.
Это в какой стране хвост сверла делают из быстрореза?
Не ясность. Я тоже был в замешательстве.
Он не заморачивался ) Проще уже из инструментальной стали делать и закаливать. Мне нравится ХВГ, закаливать проще.
Should we tell him, what drills tails are made not from HSS, but from much softer steels and just welded on?
Some are but mine are solid hss
dude.. you have the same voice as dr chase from "house"
also.. cant wait for the video titled " how i made a miniture horozontal bandsaw! "
Not again... hand cutting stock... Where is your patron? i wanna donate for handheld band saw
Are you JPL ?