Paul and Morgan are Victim Blaming Trauma Survivors Now | Therapist Talks Purity Culture
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- Опубліковано 21 вер 2024
- While I have LOTS more to say about Shiny Happy People next week-I've been meaning to dive into purity culture and the toxic values it ascribes for some time now so buckle in, my friends! We're covering a recent Paul and Morgan video where they reject the truth that purity culture is harmful and make a whole bunch of other problematic (and untrue) statements about religious trauma.
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Paul has literally stated that he didn't know women had pubic hair, and he attributed it to his homeschooling education 🤡
😟
What 💀
@Priscila E. It's in one of the sex videos Mickey reacted to. I'm sorry, I can't remember which! He assumed men had hair and women didn't
😮😵💫😵
Sounds more like porn education
Morgan: “I don’t feel like it largely negatively affected our sex life.”
Also Morgan: Cried first time they had sex on their wedding night because she was uncomfortable and Paul didn’t understand what she wanted or needed, and it wasn’t what she was expecting.
i have so much anger on behalf of everyone (which is sadly the majority it seems) that had a negative experience the first time they had sex because the adults in their life failed to prepare them for it. the adults in my life failed to prepare me, but i grew to be a very self advocative and opinionated person which allowed me to develop my own values around sex and consent before i started having it. but i'm the minority there, because kids aren't taught critical thought either (especially in the church). it's deplorable, the pain and discomfort that people go through unnecessarily because no one bothered to sit them down and have an honest fucking conversation
i just take it so personally. i want to remove every child from this cultish rhetoric and take them to safety
YES! I got married young but because I knew my parents hadn't made sure I was informed I had done a lot of research prior to getting married PLUS my husband and I talked about EVERYTHING including sex, family relationships, kids and all the expectations we had around those things. It was hugely helpful to be on the same page. And my first time wasn't painful at all and it shouldn't be cause you should be relaxed and excited if you're with the right person. [That's my own take but I know there are medical reasons it can be painful]
Also advocates wifely duty and coercive sex.
That's great that worked out for you @@Abby-gx4qi
The fact that Morgan can’t even say “sexual woman” with a straight face. She says it like a middle schooler every single time, “seeeggsual womaann” and I think that’s a pretty strong indicator of the effect purity culture has had on her.
The more they talk about sex, the more she infantilizes herself. I'm sure that's not a trauma response at all, Morgs...
This. I know fully grown women from the cult I grew up in who cannot even talk about sex without whispering and giggling. It's so annoying.
Morgan just generally has this middle schooler way of speaking. I can't place it exactly, but it's probably her intonation and definitely a learned thing. The contrast between her singing and speaking voice is crazy.
Pitch: A game show where Paul and Morgan and Girl Defined face off "Family Feud" style and have to say a list of words for assorted sex acts, body parts, fetishes, reproductive problems, and STIs clearly and without giggling or stammering in Round One, and then have to define them in Round Two. Winner gets a lifetime supply of Chick-Fil-A and edible panties.
i don't tend to giggle like a middle schooler, but i do still struggle with being frank with words about sex sometimes bc it's always been this thing we're not supposed to talk about. i'm still trying to unlearn this. >.>;;
Morgan straight up mentioned in one of her videos that she was so racked with guilt about having premarital sex that she was throwing up every single day. She claims that "living in sin" caused her mental health issues and that it was cured when she stopped having premarital and vowed her vagina to her future husband. In reality though, she was so messed up by purity culture that she was literally physically ill every single day while in a normal adult relationship. She is so imbibed in this toxic culture that instead of blaming the purity culture issue she blames herself. Morgan is a walking billboard for how harmful purity culture is.
'instead of blaming purity culture she blames herself' You said it so well!
I just made this comment but you summarised it best
I think the suffering-porn mentality of sucking up hardship and assuming that any wrong perpetrated against you is a test from God is also a key player here. These people rationalise traumatic encounters even with married partners as normal because they've been told that life is _meant_ to be testing and difficult.
It wouldn't surprise me if P&M or a similar fundie mouthpiece expressed a belief that what they went through is normal of other people.
I was literally thinking this during the parts where she was like "but yeah, it didn't affect me that badly." Like, girlie ... you have literally admitted on camera that pre-marital sex severely affected your mental health, and believe me, sis, it wasn't the sex in and of itself that caused those problems.
I feel like if I have sex before marriage I’ll have a breakdown and need to admit myself to a hospital because I disobeyed God and he won’t love me anymore
I was 13 when my "purity" was stolen from me. I went to church and smiled for all my friends and church leaders the very next day. After my parents didn't rescue me from him, I begged my youth leader. She told me, "we don't talk about those things here." Scared and alone I spent 2 more years with the attacker in my life, continuing to abuse me. As went into high school, I watched other middle school girls join our youth group. I became a mentor, and thus a role model, for several. More than one trusted me with the horrific stories of their lost "purity." Some by force and others by choice. Each of us was now ashamed. I wondered so much why God chose not to protect me and these other girls (and one boy). A different youth leader from before told me that it was good that I could relate to these younger girls. God allowed it so I could fill the role of ministering to them. All these years were filled with purity talks from both family and church leaders. The same story every time, just replace the object. For years I was a half eaten candy bar, a crumpled up flower, a banged up gift box, that my future husband was going to tolerate rather than love. I was told that my attacker, and the various other men who abused, stalked, and harassed me, would be spiritually standing there at my wedding and that my husband would have to share me with them. Modesty was so important in my church (only really for the girls). As a 13 year old trying to rationalize my trauma, I realized that I was wearing a jacket and basketball shorts. I stopped wearing shorts. So many summers lugging around in long sleeves and shorts. One heat exhaustion episode that included fainting. Refusing to go swimming with my friends or even wear cute blouses that showed any amount of cleavage. At my high school graduation, I picked out a cute spring dress to wear, but it showed both my arms and legs. Instead of celebrating the experience, I was so focused on who was looking at me. I hate that I don't even remember what the commencement speech was about. I've done a lot of work in the last few years to wear shorts again. I can comfortably wear them around the apartment if all the blinds are closed, around my sister, and when driving. With a little anxiety, I can wear them around select other family members and to the grocery store or gas station. But I still can't get myself to wear them to work or around extended family. I know now that I did nothing wrong and the shorts were not the problem. But my 13 year old fear is still there. But every summer I'm working on getting a little closer. I hope to actually go enjoy the pool at my apartment this summer, which would be a huge step
If I may, as someone going to therapy for other issues, it might be helpful to have someone you trust accompany to the pool, whenever you manage to get there.
Not because you can’t, but it might be helpful in case someone who isn’t aware of your journey decides to make some sort of comment.
I’m currently going through a rather rough time seeing how certain situations in my life are resembling certain traumatic situation, and I’m finding at least some comfort in the support of people who I know understand some of the things I’m going through. For my situation, I can’t really bring them with with me to my job, lol.
Just a thought, but I trust that the work you’ve done so far will lead you to a place where you can find your own comfort and solutions, the same way that you have already done so.
From one person working through trauma to another, I wish you the best.
I'm sorry you went through all that. You deserved better. You deserved a childhood without fear
I am so sorry that you went through that and you carry so much trauma with you, everyday. I commend you for talking about it and working on your health and well being.
where here for you girl ✊💌🙌 you are loved here
Damn…I’m really sorry. Your childhood was stolen from you and now you carry trauma you shouldn’t have to carry. I’m glad you are working through your trauma and I wish nothing but the best for you! Truly…I do. You deserve better! ❤
This idea that sex "with in marriage" is a duty and a vital part of life really hurts asexual people as well. I remember coming out as ace and being told that it was a phase and that "when you get married in the church you WILL have sex with your husband and it WILL be holy and amazing". Bleh, disgusting.
Same its so annoying. Then they say that its unbiblical to not get married or have a partner. Seriously you just can't satiate these people
@@midnightsan9917 Abusers love moving the goal posts 😢❤
As an aro ace,i can relate to you.I find these mindset disgusting.None should force a person to do sex.Sexual consent is a human right.They are the same people who will call asexuality as a disorder with no logic because they cannot digest their assumptions are wrong.Frustrating!
My wife has some health issues that make our sex life fairly irregular. I can’t imagine telling her that she HAS to do anything sexual when her health doesn’t allow it.
I cannot wrap my mind around that level of disregard for another human, let alone my life partner.
Yet the Ace person is praised pre marriage for purity of thought...
Paul and Morgan: Consistently setting the bar lower than anyone thought possible.
It's honestly shocking how much it seems like Paul *hates* Morgan
And consistently obnoxious
It's incredible. The bar is on the floor already and they dig their way under it.
Dig up! Dig up!
@@emo_penguin420 ya it always feels like he thinks he’s doing her such a favour just existing near her when he’s not getting any sexual gratification from her
Morgan: “never let a man look at you in a lustful way”
Never LET
LET
THAT’S VICTIM BLAMING
Meanwhile Jesus literally says in the Bible “if your eye causes you to sin gauge it out and throw it away”
It’s funny because if men are so feral they can’t even look at a woman’s shoulder without it getting horny, wouldn’t it make more sense to make THEIR worlds smaller, rather than women’s?
@@dollinterrupted they think that women are needlessly emotional, whereas men only display the correct feelings: horny and angry. 😬
@@LaCeiba1924 only ''correct'' feelings for men tho, if a woman is angry she's crazy, if she's horny she's a slut :)
@@chesiresays yep those people pick and choose what they like in bible . Of course men like this because they get control over another human and can use religion to do it
15:17 This section boils down to:
Morgan: It can be uncomfortable to suddenly embrace your sexuality
Paul: I want sex all day
Morgan, laughs awkwardly
So straight on point
The reason Paul is so comfortable making comments about wanting sex multiple times a day in front of the whole damn internet is because that kind of shit is normal in the church. I grew up evangelical and the amount of times I’ve heard younger married Christians (mostly the husbands) make these kinds of weird comments would astound you. Especially younger youth pastors as they objectified their (a lot of the time much younger) wives in front of the whole congregation. It’s like they were bragging that they could finally have sex. It’s weird and bizarre and not the flex they think it is.
This ☝️ ☝️ ☝️
Right? and im not suprised they are are allowing the part of purity culture that keeps their wives from being sexy and seductive in marriage to be considered toxic
Youth pastors are often church sanctioned groomers.
Absolutely this!
feels like its a way of dangling the carrot in front of younger, unmarried men. then when those men get married, if they dont like/have sex with their wife for whatever reason, well everyone else clearly does, so they should just try harder. i dont think its all real, like its impossible to tell how paul feels abt sex but morgans alrdy said theres been several instances where she had sex to placate him or she didnt have a good time and that paul has gotten upset before. so i cant say whether he enjoys sex as much as he says but either way he says it to fit in. theyve also got a point to prove that like... for non-fundies, if theres no trauma n everyone has healthy ideas abt sex and is comfortable SEX ISNT DIFFICULT. so they have to make it seem like all the suffering that makes sex difficult for fundies is like, completely normal and easy to overcome and more worth it than any alternative.
Teaching me that my body was a product to be consumed by a man one day did so much damage to me. But they also hurt my future relationships by teaching me that men were animals with no self control, and teaching me that a man's behavior towards me is MY responsibility to control using my clothing and modesty. Its deeper than just not having sex before marriage, its more than just dressing modestly. Its teaching young kids deeply flawed ideas of how other people are, teaching half of them their bodies are objects to be used and consumed and that the other half can and must be controled with those bodies, and that the half that must be controlled *have* to be because they have no control of themselves. Its slimey and gross and just fucked up.
I could cover my body, wear no makeup, have a pixie, and not present overtly sexual, AND TELL A MAN MY AGE I'M ACE (actually demi, but that just gets hopes up), and still he came across in a romantic way tacking hearts and roses to texts, calling me lovely lady, etc. My Boomer generation got so completely fucked up about sex, whether within or without purity culture. This experience took me right back to high school and being SA'd by my first date and dissociating and...shit. I DID NOTHING WRONG. And not to excuse those assholes, but they were taught wrong too. Is it any wonder my generation has such a bad reputation?
Men are framed as will-less animals. It's a foundational belief of r_pe culture as well. "Boys will be boys" because of the idea that boys have no control over their insatiable urges and it is a women's responsibility to not be a "trap".
This^. So slimy, so gross. So despicable that they’re preaching this
Perfectly summarized. You are spot on. 🎯👏🏽👏🏽
There are MULTIPLE TIMES when Paul says to Morgan, "I'm HOPING you'll say..." which basically backs her into a corner where she HAS to agree with him or risk being the b*tchy or "disobedient" wife.
The gist of their whole discussion is, "I've been able to live in denial with regard to my own trauma; I don't see why others can't!"
Yes, it feels like he picks the topics and expects her to reveal personal stuff, then responds to her comments like praising a child for their contribution then turning to the 'real conversation'.
@@helenr4300 - There's always this beat between Paul's pointed question and Morgan's response, where it feels like she wants to give her *honest* answer, but then decides to just go along with whatever he's saying because it will reduce the fallout later.
The beginning of their video was so awkward because, seemingly, Paul was trying to goad Morgan into talking about the topic. More than once, he said something to the effect of, “I know you wanted to be honest about this. That’s why _you_ brought this up.” It feels so contrived and so manipulative.
I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Paul talks her into doing videos about topics Morgan finds uncomfortable, then he uses her reluctant acquiescence to pressure her into cooperating while the camera is rolling.
When he said “good job” to her after she gave the answer he wanted my fists clenched.
The way he talks to and about her is SO condescending. I hate it.
When I was in high school, a 55 or so year old male deputy school principal rounded up all female learners (600 or so of us) on the school pavilion to have a conversation about the lengths of our skirts and how we portray ourselves to boys. The conversation spiralled and I remember him lecturing us about not having sex before marriage. The analogy he used was that girls are Christmas presents from God for boys to open up and play with. He asked us to imagine how devastated a boy would be if he married one of us only to find out that we’d already been opened up and played with by several other boys before that. It was disgusting to listen to. It wasn’t even a traditionally Christian school. Just a regular public school.
Luckily I was 17/18 at the time so I was old enough to process what he was saying and I knew not to subscribe to such harmful beliefs. But my heart broke for the 13 year olds and sexual assault victims in the audience having to listen to this man’s nonsense.
Purity culture is harmful.
It's disgusting. Plus, it's like, how privileged are you? Do hand-me-down and thrifted toys no longer make a kid happy?
Morgan: i don't like talking about toxic purity culture
also Morgan: defines toxic purity culture and describes how it has hurt her
Also Morgan: but it wasn’t toxic and I’m fine because it’s “biblical culture” and what God wants for us
It's very Paul and Morgan to blast pass all the nightmarish abuse and focus on how they are big mad about being shown for who they are.
Exactly! Mind blowing!
It's because we're all just "hATeRs"
Exactly this ! 👏
Fundies acting like they’re sex-positive now reminds me of diet companies saying “It’s not a diet, it’s a lifestyle!” While still recommending specific foods to avoid and how many calories to consume. 🤣
+
That is exactly it.
This is perfect.
My sister had a physically and emotionally abusive boyfriend in high school. She had previously confided in and confessed to one of our youth group leaders that they had previously had sex. Then when she later went to that leader for help about this abusive boyfriend, she was told it was her fault, because sex tainted his bond with god, leading him astray. He would not be hitting her if she had not opened her temple to him and the "wrath of temptation". ....sooo yeah shes still working through that trauma.
"opened her temple to him" 🤮
Screw that youth pastor. I hope you punched him. I hope when he gets to the gates of heaven St. Peter smacks him across the face and says “I turned the other cheek! Your cheek!”
I literally had a panic attack my first time and didn't feel like I was allowed to tell my spouse to stop. Purity culture is bad Morgan.
Edit: I am trans-masculine. Please use he/him for me
I'm sorry that happened to you. I hope you are getting better. Thank you for sharing.
Sending hugs from a fellow purity culture survivor. My parents told me everything was my fault too. Purity culture can go kick rocks. 😢🫂
Would that be considered sa?
@minionsarebae Technically, yes. But I don't think they had a reasonable way to tell I didn't want to continue since I didn't say anything and just sort of froze up. I'm still in a relationship with them and we've left religion. During our deconstruction, we talked about the first few times and how we each felt about it at the time and retrospectively. Turns out she's ace and trans and didn't want to be there either 🫠
We're both much happier now lol
I’m so sorry, love. ❤
Didn't they literally say that their sex life wasn't good for the first few years of marriage because it went from 0-100 and that Paul expected Morgan to be completely horned up the entire time like he was and it was really difficult for them both that she wasn't? Like I seem to remember a story about her crying on their honeymoon because he brought out a can of whipped cream? Like, hello? Am I going crazy?
Yes they did say that. Paul also said he did 'research' before the wedding.
Yes! Exactly! I was thinking the same thing. She's sitting there claiming purity culture didn't harm her while seeming to forget that she told the entire internet that she was so nervous about her wedding night that she threw up during her ceremony. 🤢 Paul has repeatedly brought up her past sexual relationship to shame her, and Morgan has said that she had to, 'ask for Paul's forgiveness' for not being a virgin before they were married. 🤬 AND she's said that she would dread going to bed every night and pretend to be asleep (I recall her using the phrase 'reviving these dead bones') because Paul would take what he wanted regardless of her obvious discomfort.😳 There's a word for that but it's eluding me... think it rhymes with grape... 🥺 I almost feel sorry for her. If she ever wakes up and realizes what purity culture and Paul did to her, I fear her whole world would fall apart. Wilful ignorance is a hell of a drug and to claim that purity culture isn't toxic and didn't cause her harm (that she revealed to all of UA-cam but now conveniently has come down with a case of selective amnesia) is a level of denial I can't begin to comprehend. 😵💫
Yep, I’m sitting here thinking, “Morgan, you THREW UP. Bullshit you weren’t traumatized.”
She has said that most of that was due to her mental health struggles with bipolar disorder and the meds she was taking, but I don't doubt that both factors heavily affected each other simultaneously.
Paul is scared of the “deconstruct word” because he doesn’t want Morgan to figure out what kind of a situation she’s in…
the thing about "Dressing modestly" is so misleading in my experience. I remember being shamed for my body as young as when I was in 4th grade because I developed breasts early and it was so rarely about MY CLOTHES and so much more often about me, just EXISTING AT ALL.
I remember being 11, at a summer birthday party, wearing a sundress and running around the sprinklers in the backyard of a friend's house. I went up to the house to get a soda because I was hot and thirsty, and seeing one of my friend's moms lock eyes with me, look pointedly down my body away from my face, turn to another parents and loudly say "I would never allow MY daughter to dress like a slut."
I went home and cried and threw the dress in a donation bind, it was my favorite piece of clothing. At a time when getting me to go shopping for school clothes was like pulling teeth it had been the only piece of clothing I had ever seen in a store and asked for because it was so charming to me.
I remember being pulled aside during picture day for wearing a blouse, a male teacher pointing down my shirt and saying it's too tight on me and not appropriate to wear. It was baggy around my waist and wouldn't have fit if it was any bigger, but it was tight on my chest. I got dress coded for wearing a turtleneck once, no skin showing at all. But it was "too tight and too revealing". One time I got dress-coded while wearing a T-shirt. A T SHIRT! while sitting next to a classmate who was breaking dress code and only wearing a camisole. It was a school officer lecturering us who called me out that time.
My father almost came to blows with a man in a supermarket leering at me when I was 13 and still watching cartoons and playing pokemon.
whenever someone told me I was immodest it was always about the natural shape of my body under my clothes. Girls at my church wore shorts barely covering their butts, but if they didn't "have" a "butt" deemed lustful by adults it wasn't an issue. Other smaller girls got to wear dresses and tops that went down to their clavicle, but even the most modest high necked dresses on me were "lewd". Even when I was a child. It wasn't about my dress, it was always, ALWAYS about the shape of my body being inherently ITSELF "tempting" and "Sinful" 100% outside of my control no matter what I wore.
I was deeply ashamed of my body until I hit university essentially, and I made friends who completely banned any "negative self talk" in front of the mirror especially. I went from feeling "like a slut" for wearing a tank top to class once to wearing two piece swimsuits that are so comfortable to me. And it only took like two years of the constant reinforcement of finding positives for the shame to finally start to lift. I finally got a bra that fit because I wasn't "humiliated" by the fact that I was an F cup. (It didn't help at the time that almost no stores carried sizes above 36DD, I felt like a freak as a teenager at bra stores when they didn't have any sizes that fit me.) Oh, I could go on... but in my experience I didn't ever have the luxury of it being about my clothes as a child. I was naughty for existing, even if I'm asexual, even if I didn't want to be. Even if I was a child.
I've realized that body shaming is part of the foundation of purity culture, and just another piece of evidence that it's all about control and punishment. Those who insist that women should always dress modestly also seem to ignore or handwave away the fact that even women wearing full burkas have been SA'd. Because what's a few extra yards of cloth going to matter to someone who's decided they're going to hurt you and is determined to do so, perhaps even where other people would see?
Yeah, lord, it messed me up so badly to be told in clothing stores "oh my boyfriend would love it if I was built like you" when I was an actual child. It was hurtful to be sexualized when I didn't even want to be sexual, and people would project their desires onto me. Knowing I'm asexual as an adult and occasionally being told "it's a shame you are" or "you can't possibly be asexual" with the unspoken part being "because I'M attracted to you and that's unfair to ME" of course.
You deserve so much better than the childhood you experienced. You also deserve better than other people telling you those inherently aphobic things. It’s honestly messed up we live in a world where people are taught (in both implicit and explicit ways) that it’s the job of the person being ogled and judged to somehow control how others view them.
That's infuriating, I'm sorry those people failed you so shamefully.
I relate to this with how differently my mother treated me and my sister
The problem with purity culture is: If you don't know what sex is, how do you know if you've been molested or raped?
Lmao, also, didn't Morgan say that she broke down and cried on her wedding night when Paul brought out some whipped cream?? How can she say purity culture didn't affect her?
My degree is in early childhood education. One of my biggest pet peeves about these kind of ultra religious people enforcing purity culture is how much it puts children in danger. Criminal cases get thrown out pretty frequently because a child victim doesn't even have the language of anatomical body part names to express what happened to them. I always use proper terms for body parts, explain to them the difference between good surprises/secrets vs dangerous ones, how someone hurting them is not their fault, as well as allowing kids the space to set their own boundaries for their bodies and how to respect those boundaries in their friends/classmates. When you teach these things while they're young they grow up to be responsible and respectful adults. You need to start these conversations long before they ever start to develop any kind of romantic/sexual relationships. It's just infuriating that people like Paul and Morgan try to present themselves as experts in anything and putting out info that supports ideas that are so harmful.
In UK the charity for prevention of cruelty to children (NSPCC) has a great set of resources used in most state schools. Pantasaurus is the character and uses the initials of the word pants (note that in UK that irs specific to underwear). Privates are private. Always remember your body is yours. No means no. Talk about secrets that upset you. Speak up, someone can help. The Pantasaurus song is all about saying no and telling.
It is so important that children are given ways to articulate without making it all another scary thing. Sadly people misinterpret 'age appropriate education' in this area as teaching young children about sex and sexuality. When it is about teaching bodily autonomy and that not all children have a mummy and a daddy, but different types of families exist.
@@starparodier91 ah the classic. Only rivaled by children asking people what genitals they have or announcing that they (the child) have x genitals
Thanks for saying this Maggie. Using the actual words is so important regardless of age. Words matter and help keep confusion down.
Purity culture is toxic and one way it harmed me is when I felt guilty about being abused when I was 8 yrs old. I hope everyone else that was victimized by purity culture finds help to work through the awful teachings of fundamentalism❤
this is sadly really common.. when young girls are told that their worth as a person is directly related to their sexual purity, this is so incredibly harmful :( I'm sorry you had to experience that.
I so incredibly sorry this happened to you.
I am so sorry you went through this. The only positive that came from my abuse as a child is knowing exactly how NOT to raise my own children someday. To be the kind of advocate and safe space that my own parents could never be for me. You aren’t alone, and it was NEVER your goddamn fault.
Our country being founded on freedom is a crock of shit. It was founded on power, control, and money (paper, that they decided to make worth something. Then, when they had too much money, the stock market; THEN Crypto. That is all our hard earned money bring stored up for the rich folk to have more in my opinion.
Same. And I was abused by a younger boy so I was especially confused and ashamed.
One thing P&M are confused about is how trauma works. Sometimes you can be traumatized but not realize it for years, e.g. if you weren't taught about consent and were unknowingly pressured to have sex. A lot of purity culture works the same way - you don't see how badly you were hurt until you discover a healthy way to understand sex. That's why so many people are so angry about purity culture now. It seemed normal at the time, but now we know better. But P&M think of trauma as something immediate and obvious, so they assume critics of purity culture are exaggerating the harm. They have made themselves incapable of understanding that the critics - the feminists - are critiquing EXACTLY the thing they constantly defend - because of its very real harm. So they spew this word salad where they pretend to understand, but they only amplify their ignorance.
I think your comment is very insightful. Using your proffered frame while viewing Paul and Morgan’s content, your insight seems likely to be true. What’s especially awful is it’s almost certain that they’re not interested in learning about the mechanics and results of trauma.
Yes yes yes.
thank you for saying this! this comment needs to be seen by entire world it seems like. whenever sexual allegations *against some big celebrity come out, I see too many people saying " Why didn't they say it to us sooner!?They're lying just because an honest person would say it as soon as possible!" Ugh... I hope these people will be more educated on this issue, it's terrible...
"it didn't affect our sex life" oh but in previous videos I've stated "I started crying on our honeymoon when he took out the whipped cream" and "after 5 years of marriage he figured out foreplay is important" 🙄🙄
Right?? And I feel like there's a reason they (esp Paul) seem to keep saying, "Oh, oh, but it's not gonna affect you for a WHOLE 20 YEARS, amIright?" First off, who's to say it won't? Second off, it's still valid even if it takes less than their arbitrary set of years to resolve. And thirdly, even if they've personally gotten past their own rough patches, they've still admitted on camera that _they had those rough patches_ and that some of those problems lasted _way_ longer than they should have or would have if they hadn't been steeped in purity culture.
Commenting again to say: Paul and Morgan are just continually more and more hateful. They refuse to take input and they mock anyone who dares to disagree with them. Reminds me of my former church.
Right!? They just keep digging themselves deeper and deeper.
It's also important to keep in mind that on that side of the political/religious spectrum, the cruelty and hate for others is the point. And the window is steadily moving. If you want to stay relevant, you can't settle with just longsuffering, tolerance of those you disagree with. That will get you nowhere when you share the same space with people who regularly claim that if you're not evangelical you are demonic and deserve a painful death all for the glory of God. These two will grow more extreme so as not to be left behind by their fellow conservative grifters.
i went to a private christian fundamentalist school my entire education. the way paul and morgan talk reminds me so much of my male teachers telling ME how i should act and how i should feel. the girls would constantly be shamed for just being girls while the guys don't even know what consent is 😒. it was insane and thankfully most of my class rejected all of that rhetoric to the point they were forced to change the curriculum lol
Well done as a group to stand against it. The mindset is damaging to both genders (the only version they accept). The women are burdened with being guilty of leading men on, whilst the men are defined as helpless to urges without self control. Toxic for all
This made me think about koalas and how the males literally have no moral compass and the females would rather be lesbians because of it.
@@sentientplant9658 underrated comment 👆
Wasn’t Morgan sexually active before marriage, and wasn’t it an issue in the beginning of her relationship with Paul? Didn’t they discuss what kind of apology she owed him? Wasn’t she so stressed at her wedding she threw up?
That they expect me to have forgotten these details and to now instead blithely accept that Morgan wasn’t traumatized and their marriage has been non-stop bliss is wild.
yep. and it continues to this day. you just have to know he's still guilting her.
I knew of one church member who guilted his wife for not being a virgin before marriage. She blessed him with two daughters and he still continued to guilt her. She passed away from terminal cancer when the kids were still very young. My mom told me about it. She was also a Christian but she felt it wasn't right to guilt people for something that happened before they even met. And the worst part of purity culture is that the same religious institution encourages married couples to forgive infidelity and stay in unhappy or abusive marriages. (Because it's sinful to not forgive infidelity).
Thank you for saying that being traumatized doesn't make you damaged. I needed to hear that today 💜
So did I♥️
Me too ❤ I'm years into my healing journey and it's still such a good reminder.
Is it just me, or does Morgan always seem stoned off her mind? Drugged? I don't know.
Numb for sure. My mother in law has a similar disposition and she was a child bride (age 11) to a violent man/family.
@@joanna0988 Numb, that makes sense. I hope she's able to eventually overcome her situation.
@@joanna0988wow, 11!!! What year was that and where in this world? No wonder traumatised
@@helenr4300 So that was 1979 and in Tehran, Iran. It was an arranged marriage to a 2nd cousin, she was 11 and he was 19. My brother in law was born when she was 13, my sister in law when she was 15 and my husband when she was 16. She's a shell of a person, I don't think she should have been a mother at all because she's never enjoyed it, she loves reading and animals. It's affected my kids because she tends to shutdown a lot and we don't hear from her for months. Just sad all around.
@@violetrain28 Yes! I really started to unravel all of my childhood trauma in my 30s and we're lucky that there are so many resources now so I hope she's able to find herself and her joy.
P&M almost didn't get married because M wasn't the perfectly pure virgin he wanted and she had to beg his forgiveness for bullshit that had nothing to do with him.
The modesty thing blames femme people for the harrassment and abuse they experience, and pretending that doesn't exist is absolute horseshit
Oh wow, now I really hate Paul. The fact that the woman “he loved” had to beg him to forgive her just for not being a virgin is just disgusting. He doesn’t truly love her. I’ve never been in love. But I know that what he feels for Morgan isn’t love. Screw him. I hope she leaves him and takes the kids.
Paul and Morgan coming SO close to the point, then dance around it is truly astonishing. If the mental gymnastics involved were actual gymnastics, Simone Biles couldn't keep up with them.
😂😂😂 Ditto! The Simone Biles comparison popped in my head, too!
Paul and Morgan have the sexual twisties. 😵💫
Paul: I dont think we need to try to define purity culture
Then what are we talking about, Paul?
Morgan: I don't think we should call it purity culture
Then what are we talking about, Morgan?
Maddening, these two
When Morgan was talking about that point, I said, “That’s the *connotation* of the term, Morgan.” The term’s negative connotation is well earned and rebranding won’t change the underlying problems of purity culture. Changing the name will help Morgan rationalize her complicity and trauma with purity culture, but a name change won’t fix the actual problem. Ask HBO.
Paul was addicted to porn and how is that addition even ok in purity culture? He claims to be flawless but he really isn't.
Absolutely anything but acknowledging the dangerous and abusive ideology they've been touting for countless videos, that's what they're doing.
Exactly. To paraphrase Shakespeare “a dumpster by any other name would smell as rancid.”
They pick hot topics and say a whole lot of nothing on it.
Their entire channel is a clickbait farm. 😅
Even if she believes that her marriage HAS been affected by PC... she has been indoctrinated NOT to admit it to people. That would make her a bad wife. 😢
I can never follow Morgan’s train of thought when she’s talking. She kind of slurs her way through a word salad and I’m left wondering what she said. I think she probably feels the same way too since she finishes a lot of her word salads with ‘I don’t know’
I've come to the conclusion that Morgan just isn't very smart.
Everytime Morgan speaks I change the video to 2x speed and it sounds like a normal speaking speed. Still nonsense but fast nonsense.
Pretty sure she has some untreated mental illnesses. At the very least she has said in videos that she had severe anxiety and depression and stopped getting them treated not long after she met Paul.
@@tarajh I think she is profoundly traumatized. Paul is a beast.
It seems to me like she's always just trying to work out what it is she's expected to say, with a lot of anxiety around what paul and her religious community will react with and if she says the "wrong" thing or casts any negativity on things they don't want to view as negative, she'll be shamed for it. Which I imagine makes it extremely hard to speak up, especially with all their own self-imposed molds to fit into, it really really seems like there's no "right" answer she can ever give that both makes those others happy, and feels right and self-empowering/validating to herself. And it's *exhausting* to witness 😩😩😫
My youth leader told us (10-12 yr olds) that girls should dress modestly because boys/men are easily tempted, and if something happens it's our fault. (I think the youth leader went as far as saying that men have beasts in their hearts) When I heard this, I couldn't verbalize my anger and frustration, so it put a giant wrench in my relationship with the church system. Now, as an adult, I can say that I was frustrated because this youth leader was telling us, a mixed gendered group, that boys were inherently sinful and easily tempted, equipping preteens with emotional incompetence and self doubt. Then it's up for the godly women to support their fragility and keep them good. I was so mad because this adult was telling my friends that they were secretly evil and they personally can't do anything about it. And I didn't like how all I could do was to dress "nicely" and the fundamental problem will remain unfixed.
It also excuses shitty behavior for guys because the others said they can't tempt themselves, so might as well act upon it and use it. It's really gross.
In the end even in THE family it should go right - the Duggars - it went wrong, so that goes to show how much bullshit it is.
@@hagelslag9312Yeah. I can recall having a discussion with a church member where I suggested avoiding places & situations if you know you lack self-control. Even with that, the response was basically "why is that woman there or being immodest in the first place?" Its like the men can't even self impose limitations for the virtues that they promote.
I would have asked why men are in charge then if they can't control themselves and are basically just animals. If women have to keep men under control, why are they subservient?
Let me help Morgan (on the...I don't like the word "purity culture" and pretending she and Paul aren't trying to sell the same crap James Dobson did). I was in a Southern Baptist youth group in the early to mid 90's when they rolled all that stuff out. I listened to it week in and week out for hours at a time. There were weekend retreats about it. There were week long retreats. I knew EXACTLY what it is and was. And it is EXACTLY what Paul and Morgan sit there and spew. And the results are EXACTLY what Shiny Happy People talks about. There is a REASON the SBC keeps winding up in the news almost every single day for some new revelation about a youth pastor SA'ing kids. There's a REASON there are all of these Millenials and Gen X'ers talking about the damage purity culture did to their marriage bedroom. It's because Millenials grew up listening to people they trusted spewing basically the same exact words Paul and Morgan spew week in and week out. It being 30 years later doesn't change the effect of those words, Morgan. I lived it. I've listened to fellow youth group members talk about the effect it had on their marriages and the kind of therapy they had to do (after their divorces) to recover from what the church did. I know there were men doing similar stuff to what Bill Gothard was described as doing with young girls. You can rename it all you want, Morgan. But the crap you're teaching creates abuse. It just does. You just don't like that it's becoming well documented that the stuff you're teaching sounds good in your head, but creates abuse again and again and again....to the point that the FBI is investigating entire denominations because of just how much abuse it renders.
Their take on this was abominable. Like I get being mad at how a documentary portrays you, but how do they not feel embarrassed about their response video? They really felt their right to evangelize was more important than the stories of victims of abuse. They showed their whole ass with this one. 😳😬
Edit: OOPS. this is primarily about purity culture. My point still stands. For people who promote purity culture, they sure do LOVE showing their backside to the public.
YES! Exactly! Thank You!
Absolutely. So embarrassing to rest of Christians too. We don't all assume we should have the right to spout our beliefs in any situation. And certainly not in a documentary about the trauma people have experienced. That is no place for anything but regret that faith has caused that. And certainly not the unnuanced 'come to Jesus you sinner and be healed and happy' that they would have brought.
Were they naive? It seems so, why think that anything about the Duggers post Josh's conviction would be anything but critical? And of course the producers say nice things, it's called politeness, though it can lean into love bombing.
For people who put their whole lives online, to then be shocked at people knowing stuff about them, and to be so media unsavy.... I think they thought it would promote them and raise their profile in the evangelical vlogosphere. But it bit them back.
Oof, this hit me harder than I expected!
I remember crying in a Walmart trying to find latex free condoms in a conservative, smaller state. Apparently affordable access to latex free condoms in early 2010s was a luxury and I thought I was being punished for having premarital sex by 1-being allergic to latex and 2- not being able to find condoms that I could use without spending $10 a piece.
I also remember being compared to a soda bottle at bible camp when I was a pre-teen as an analogy to dressing modestly. Seriously, it was the strangest I've ever felt in a 'girls only' chat and I had an old man teacher for health class.
Fuck purity culture and all of the trauma it gave me and SO many other people!
As someone with a latex allergy who wasn’t raised religious, this just made my heart hurt for you ❤ to think a young woman thought her own body’s conditions were a punishment, I’m so sorry you went through that. Also what’s up with latex free condoms being so expensive, right??? It’s such an annoying up charge
Paul's jokes about the amount of sex he wants with Morgan instantly dredged up the uncomfortable memories of countless youth pastors and speakers (all men, ofc) talking about how their 'hot wife was so hot, praise Jesus!'
I think it's gross and sad that Paul & Morgan are IGNORING the victims because they feel they were portrayed badly.
they have to ignore the victims or admit that they're wrong, and paul's narcissism won't allow that. morgan isn't as narcissistic, just hella twisted.
"The Enemy" is an interesting term for anyone criticizing one of their beliefs. It makes it pretty easy to deflect anything that questions or asks for critical thinking. "Enemy" "Satan", etc. puts you at war with anyone who doesn't live in your silo. So, are they saying women who get married can dress "immodestly"? That's a new one. Doesn't that "cause the brothers to stumble" anyway? There is no consistency or logic here anywhere.
I think it’s a way to avoid accountability. “THe eNeMy dId IT” 🤦♀️
Oh no she has to be modestly dressed until in the bedroom where expected to be a sex goddess on demand
It's also totally a cult tactic to have this invisible "enemy" you must always be on the look out for. oddly enough, the only one who knows how to spot the enemy is always the leader who must be follow unquestioningly. I think its very interesting how Paul and Morgan say you should know WHO is a trustworthy leader in the church but also to find leaders in the church and not telling you how to vet these leaders except to have a good relationship with christ.
I've just always found it weird that fundagelicals can't work up the cojones to just say "Satan" or "The Devil." He's not going to manifest in your living room, y'all!
@@dinosaysrawr god that's actually hilarious and I've never thought about it like that. thank you for the mental image
Paul and Morgan are so mad it wasn’t about them. They don’t lower the bar, they throw it away.
this is the correct take.
I would love to talk to Morgan about my experiences growing up in purity culture. I would love to see her scoff at my experiences and try to explain them away just like she does with her own trauma. As much as she pisses me off, she seems like she needs a friend to be honest with her.
Right? I can't find it in myself to hate Morgan because I see her story and I relate to some of it. I find that with a lot of the Fundie women- they say awful hurtful shit but then I just feel more sad for them because they could have been so much more outside of their abusive systems. Especially with Morgan since we can see videos of her before her marriage and before she was super involved in a more Fundie circle.
our "beloved" youth group leader was caught sleeping with a teen girl during a missions trip while his wife was pregnant. and he still had massive support from a large portion of the church despite having to step down. so ya, it's not rare for a YG leader to bring about trauma. this wasnt even weird to me when i was in high school, bc he was like corrupt pastor number 4 in my life at that point.
My family was (and is) deeply embroiled in purity culture and the Christianity associated. I never had "the talk". I didn't know there were anatomical differences between people. The only reason I never got a purity ring is that we were on vacation during the week my family's church did the ceremony. And all of this when I was IN LATE MIDDLE SCHOOL/EARLY HIGH SCHOOL. All I knew was that sex was bad until you were married, then it was good. I was manipulated into... a lot. When I eventually had my first time (as a late teenager, gasp), I was coerced into it, hurt, and was traumatized as a result. Purity culture is bad. Full stop.
I honestly feel sorry for Morgan. There are several points throughout this video where she is PALPABLY uncomfortable, particularly when Paul presses her to speak about her own past, and at every step you can see her talk herself out of her own feelings in order to agree with him.
At the point where she was like "if I'd figured this out at eighteen, there would be other stuff I'd be having to work through now!" I just felt so sad. Just the peripheral awareness she seems to have that there's probably a bunch of things she needs to unpack, but being so terrified of what she might find there that she can't even bring herself to name them. It's so much easier to narrow in on one thing and make it so important and all-consuming that you couldn't possibly make room to examine anything else.
We don't know if Morgan was traumatized by purity culture, but we do know that she cried on their wedding night when Paul pulled out the whipped cream--because they told us that in another video! The "blank number of things we wish we had known before having sex" video. So much oversharing that it makes it harder to believe them and the twisty things they say.
I mean she vomited during their wedding ceremony
@@MoonflowerSociety Also true. Though, there's more ambiguity to that; hot lights, public speaking, wedding stress. In the bedroom, it was just her and Paul and the reality of his expectations.
I sincerely hope that Paul, if nothing else, really reflects on and changes his stance on what he’d do if he found out his teenager was having sex. That’s the kind of mindset that had my fundamentalist (Muslim but still) dad pull me out of high school after I got a boyfriend, even though we hadn’t even had our first kiss yet. I was a high-achieving student and that has permanently fucked up the trajectory I had for my education and has scarred me deeply. It’s not okay to ruin your kid’s life over shit like that ever and if he loves his kid he needs to change his approach.
I hope you're doing better now
I have noticed that once these purity influencers get married, they talk about godly sex, being sexy, how good wants husbands and wives to have great sex, but it sounds more aspirational than their lived experience. When they talk about their own personal experiences, they talk about traumatic experiences, inability to connect, disappointment in sex, feeling fear and shame, but they sweep all that aside and say oh but that's not what god wants as if that just makes their struggles disappear
There’s a big difference between encouraging young people to wait for sex, that abstaining from sex will prevent pregnancy and STDs and telling young women that they’re no better than chewed up gum or a used dirty shoe if they have sex before marriage
being autistic and having deconstructed a shit ton of my own religious upbringing, it's soooo frustrating the way they constantly are like "pastors/teachings aren't always right but some are but for those who aren't you'll just know what's actually right, because you will, not because of anything you've learned or anything, you should just know." and like _literally that's the least helpful thing i've ever heard i my entire life_
I'm right there with you. I'm on the spectrum and I'm almost completely unable to read any hints around romance and sex, but fairly good at reading people otherwise. And even the tangential purity culture plus just compulsive gender roles (I'm very cis but felt trapped by gender roles nonetheless) led to so much baggage and internalization in my attempts to figure out how to make social stuff and the world work. And you know, I work on it, but it's a point of pain. I struggle to ask people if I can kiss them after a date because I can't tell and it feels so weird to ask and there's so much anxiety, but you know what, I'm an adult (woman) (mid to late twenties), so I've figured out that I have communicate when I'm dating, if I want to, regardless of the anxiety, and if I can't do that or it's too much, then I shouldn't be in romantic or sexual relationships. Like yes, please give me a script I can't follow, expect me to be able to just figure it out somehow and be able to throw out the script with no internalization when I'm trying to figure out something I can't do just instinctually. And then these people are saying they're mature enough. For me you shouldn't be sexually or romantically active if you can't both handle talking to a doctor (not a problem for me, and this criteria assumes the doctor isn't being harmful and is safe and you have access), and talking to any given partner about the given thing you want (more of a struggle, given that if they haven't explicitly said something I don't know anything of their level of interest so major anxiety plus internalized). And you know what, I work on that shit and don't do stuff when I can't talk about it. This is very rambling and etc, but I just appreciated your comment so much.
I’m also on the Spectrum and have ADHD and agree with what you said. I was thinking the other day how the who attitude with authority in Church was just “You know what you need to do. Stop questioning us, don’t ask questions!!” and then have to unlearn that when you’re out working or socializing with people and need to be clear on something needed from you or being communicated…
Don't worry it's not just you, it's confusing for NT people as well. This is by design, so you can take the blame any time something bad happens to you!
@@Sicthewolf you're so right!
@@rachel_sj omg yesss "don't ask questions"- there's very little that can make me mad as quickly as that can lol
Oh Mickey!!! I just want to thank you for this content. I'm a therapist who works with people who have religious trauma. And this infuriates me that people like Paul and Morgan put this toxic shit out there. I'm so grateful for you because i don't have the patience to be as concise and educational as you do I would just be ranting!!
Mickey did you see the latest story Paul posted? The one in which he blames the victims in SHP and everyone else who spoke out they blame the church, while in reality they wanted to 'just let me sin'? He's suggesting they CHOOSE to be abused, they WANTED to SIN. He's saying this about sexual abuse victims! It's infuriating! He's such a vile person, absolutely disgusting! I hope he rots in hell.
Morgan is literally on record saying something about how she had pre-marital sex and it affected her mental health but she was always just missing the connection. She spoke of it like pre-marital sex made her depressed but it seemed pretty clear (from someone with religious trauma who grew in purity culture) listening to her that it was the shame and guilt that was weighing heavy on her and impacting her mental health.
I love how Paul minimizes and pre-empts any bad experiences Morgan may have had from purity culture but Morgan validates the one thing he didn't like about it 🙃
i love how the one time Paul referenced something that Morgan had shared affected her (feeling shy about uncovering her body) it just happened to be something that inconvenienced him. if he wants to see tits and he can't, *then* it's a problem
I was raised IFB / Gothard adjacent, and it's become a self care habit to come here for validation and snap out of my self-gaslighting when I"m having a hard time.
Thank you.
(Yes I have an IRL religious trauma informed therapist. She's magical.)
Glad you have that support.
Same! (I have a magical therapist too)
I call my therapist the Blessed Saint Betty. She's wonderful! I get what you mean about self-gaslighting although I've not called it such. All the best for the future!
It’s always just chocked up to “bad actors” it can never be blamed on the system itself. Only certain specific bad people.
Side note: if anyone has that clip of them saying they’d kick Luca out for having premarital sex I’d like to see it. That’s crazy
The best part of these videos is when Mickey and I make eye contact at all the questionable parts
No one has talked to me more about their sex lives than the adult youth group leaders I had when I was a young teenager.
Purity culture is so weird and damaging.
Hi, Christian here, I was raised Christian, went to a private Christian k-8, was an active member of my church (I even taught Sunday School), so I was very much emersed in purity culture. Just because I came out of that ok and wouldn't call my self traumatized (thank you swim team for the crash course on body positivity) DOES NOT MEAN that some one else living through the same experience was not affected in a different more harmful way! The more I learn the more compassion I have for those deeply traumatized and hurt by the Church and I am extremely gladened to see more people talking about this and bringing these things to light! I hope the more we talk about it the more resources we can find and make available for those who need them, whether it's just a listening ear or more active help.
Paul and Morgan really ran right into the point and still managed to miss it.
Right?!?!?
Morgan is also very conveniently leaving out that she wasn't a virgin when she got married which might play a role in how traumatic she personally found sexual activity in her marriage.
And leaving out what a mental toll having said sex premaritally had on her mental health to the point of vommiting every day and being sverely depressed. But sure, that's not the effect of purity culture, just the appropriate way to feel because you have "sinned".
@@morgianasartre6709 I mean, they're both incredibly dishonest. It's sad none of their energy is directed inwards on reflection and growth.
“This is a thing I’m actively working through..” BUT ALSO ..”but purity culture just needs a new name because they keep calling it toxic”. 😂 and “here let me keep endorsing it”. Nope.
Mickey's reaction faces kill me. Love it
Seriously 😅😅
She says so much without saying anything while listening to P&M speak 😂
Youth group leaders. Yep. That’s why I left the church. The leadership refused to believe me and my friends when we went to them with our complaints about inappropriate sexual conduct by the youth minister. Our parents were with us. There were 3 families making the accusations and the leadership chose to back the youth minister. So all 3 families left the church. I heard through the grapevine that within a year the membership got rid of the head pastor and youth minister.
I’ve got my own relationship with a higher power. I’ve seen too many churches take advantage of their (willing) members for their own political and financial gain. I don’t want someone preaching their impression (twisted version) of the Bible to me. I’d rather read the Bible myself and have a 1:1 relationship with my higher power.
I was shamed and put down by a psychiatrist yesterday in regards to a sexual assault that occurred in my life. NOT a therapist, a supposedly board certified physician who dug in to my situation inappropriately. Maybe he doesn't know who I am, but he does now. I WILL NOT HIDE IN SHAME of the poor decision making of others. I rise as I always will. I wanted to post this not for negative effects but hopefuly for change. It made me sad for others who are struggling and maybe not quite able to navigate something like that. The trauma that would have, and in some ways still did affect my psyche in a negative manner being passed on to other survivors of ANY trauma completely breaks my heart. Imma do what I can do, but how do we end this? A professional saying to me, "well IF this assault occurred; as you say, then why ...." wtf?!? He then proceeds to prescribe me 5 new meds. Never doing vitals, asking if i was prego, nothing. I asked him how was I supposed to know which meds are working or not if im starting 5 at the same time and he said he would know cuz I would tell him. I asked again but how will I know? He said "just pay attention to your body and let me know." Whaaaaaat?!?!
I'm so sorry. I've had terrible experiences with some psychiatrists and it can be both infuriating and damaging. You deserve better, and there are good psychiatrists, but they can be hard to find or expensive, and sometimes they have a lot of power and you have no choice (if it's ever a terrible psychiatrist who's on an inpatient ward).
@Songs-of-Seers yes, I have had a few similar experiences. This guy is pompous, arrogant, and def doesn't understand mental health care or at least chooses not to in my opinion🙄. Used to be theyd offer counseling first and then go to meds. Now, at least here, almost everyone who goes in gets prescribed meds first visit. Frightening. And sooooo many people here are losing their minds. Connection? I don't know. But sad for community and humanity that these things are still happening ESPECIALLY with educated peeps who are supposed to have the knowledge behind their work. 😢 He wouldn't even accept the counselors thought that I had Cptsd bc he stated it was not even a real disorder, so... yeah. But also coulsnt educate him at all cuz apparently he knows all already...smfh
If you can, make a complaint and report him to the relevant authority, because him not doing appropriate medical checks before prescribing multiple mediations is malpractice, let alone the way he spoke to you about your assault!
@powderandpaint14 I am first thing Monday morning. I already wrote a complaint about him previously about a year ago and shouldn't have even been assigned to him, but no actions were taken that I know of. So yeah, I'm def going to look at the malpractice side of things, too. They didn't take my vitals until the very end. By then, I was so upset my BP was 187/125 with hr 130. They just wrote it down and sent me on my way. Nooooo! I also work nursing field and knew better than to have someone leave a medical facility with bp that high. But, i was so exhausted from him; i just wanted out of there. Sheesh...shame on Riverside County for their mental health department. Needs revamp, very poor care, so difficult to get individual counseling. No medical history even asked about either. So i will not be taking the meds until I have a proper exam. Thank you for your response. I've been goin round and round this endless loop in this county for 10 years and it's extremely disappointing that there are no quick options set up for mental health counseling; only meds meds and more meds. 😒 Thank goodness we have this wonderful place to have a voice and support! 🙌
@@sharlahoodcoston I feel you. My county also has terribly low and poor resources for mental health care. I once went to a psychiatrist hoping for help and on my first ever visit, he had a student do my evaluation! Never went back and I filed a complaint. Edit: McHenry county Illinois
The transition to being sexy in marriage is an interesting issue. Even my mum marrying in early 60s had no sex ed and left to figure it out. The book On Chesil Beach discusses a honeymooning couple at beachside hotel, and the wife freaking out because she had no idea about what was awaiting her.
In contrast I had the privilege to spend some time in Zambia, alongside local people rather than touristy. I was invited to join a friend in the Bemba rituals around preparing for marriage. The 'kitchen party' was the gift giving of things for the home, with added veiling and the mother of the groom checking it is is the right person. But what was eye opening was the other event for the bride and married women only (I was allowed as a exception). Lots of symbolism and dance that basically suggested (and demonstrating with imaginary partner) various moves to please your husband and yourself. So there was a cultural way to help the transition from virgin to sexually aware. I attended as a virgin myself, and learned a lot!!
That's kind of disgusting. Can you imagine the mother of your soon to be husband essentially teaching you how to "please" her son during sex after marriage!? Ew! How weird and then she decides if you're "right for him"? Wtf!?
Sometimes I wonder why I was so exhausted as a teen...and then I hear Paul say "find someone to speak into your life who can guide you - but also constantly be on guard in case they're not actually right about the black-and-white (but still somehow mysterious) teeny tiny path of being perfectly correct". Like, just that sentence is making me exhausted.
The way Paul tells Morgan what she’s thinking and feeds her what to say is so telling.
Gotta love the ‘what I hope you will say’ move by Paul…. Everything Morgan says is totally her own words and only her own words!
You know it's gonna be a good one when Mickey is ripping her eyes out in the thumbnail
The way he brought up "haters are going to be surprised that we're talking about..." so early into their video gives off weird energy. Like the intention of their video wasn't to talk about the topic but to be able to throw it in haters faces. In the way someone would buy something that's expensive but ugly simply to show it off, they don't really care about it it's just the symbolism of it.
The denial makes me want to just bang my head against a wall.... like.... I have dealt with people like them my whole life and still do. They just deny deny deny deny... It's the D in DARVO. "The mental gymnastics are astounding" is exactly right... I just had to go no contact with everyone and move to the other side of the country. I tried for two decades. There is no way to reach people like this.
My aunt believes abortion is murder. I had an abortion as a teen. I told her it hurts my feelings that she considers me a murderer. She got offended and denied that she thinks I'm a murderer. I have been open about my choice since I made it at 17. She has been vocal and public about her murder POV. My mom even said, "Stop saying ____ thinks you are a murderer! She told me she doesn't!" BUT SHE LITERALLY DOES. The gymnastics... She's happy to vote against repro rights, happy to say it's murder, but refuses to look me in the eye and say it. Or look my mom in the eye and call her daughter a killer. This is their way... No accountability. If you think I'm a killer, say it to my face and deal with my reaction.
Mickey’s first point about “You didn’t have to make this video if you didn’t want to” actually goes so deep because, having grown up Christian, you really don’t know what you want because you are not your own authority. So the discomfort in even answering questions, not ever being aware of when you’re uncomfortable, how much you’ve had to deny your feelings, have bad boundaries, etc. all of that plays into that simple first point. They probably felt like they “should” address something, or “it would be the right thing to further our cause” or “God would be pleased,” rather than doing any introspection or knowing if they want to do something, even making a video
I felt the same way growing up with an emotionally abusive parent. Had no idea how to identify my own discomfort, and didn't even realize it was possible to just not do things I didn't want to do. My entire life was doing things I didn't want to do.
Exactly right you don't even know what you "want" you've spent so much time not listening to yourself
I grew up in the purity culture and, in turn, was highly sexualized by adults from an extremely early age. Several of the girls I grew up with in the church became pregnant around the age of 17, 18, 20, etc, out of wedlock, and the women who "taught" us how to be "pure" scoff at them, saying things behind their backs like, "I mean, how stupid could you be? Haven't you heard of protection?" NO. They haven't. Sex education is called sex education because it has to be taught and learned, and purity culture doesn't teach anything about sex other than to not have it under any circumstance. I am deeply deconstructed and love seeing people like you do videos like these because it brings to light the monstrosities mainstream religions do to people on a psychological level. Peace and Love, and happy deconstructing!
Paul and Morgan: “Purity culture isn’t toxic!”
Also Paul and Morgan: describe very common toxic aspects of purity culture from different perspectives.
🙃🙃
Paul literally laughed at the idea that people like me could be traumatized by a youth pastor telling them to cover up, and then Morgan has the nerve to say that they aren't trying to belittle people who were traumatized. They don't even listen to each other when they speak, do they?
Morgan is describing "a lady in the streets but a freak in the sheets" 😂
It feels like the number of house plants is in direct correlation with how many times Morgan asks Paul for more kids.
You know what really hurt me, for many, many years, that was part of purity culture? The concept of 'virginity'. I was raped for the first time as a little girl. So at what age did I 'lose' my virginity and was it my fault? These were things that the blithely ignorant adults who perpetuated these falsehoods ignored, thus compounding the trauma. I spent decades thinking there was something 'wrong' with me. There are some things that are genuinely *evil* within Evangelicalism and I do not use that word lightly.
They make me so uncomfortable and not in a fun way...
I will never understand how you can be so confident in the “truth” that you get up and say, I’m fine, don’t listen to everyone who says they aren’t. Everything is fine.
Purity culture was a problem for me, and I was a teenage right at the beginning of purity culture. I know it got worse. I didn’t grow up with the expectation that my first kiss ever would be during my wedding.
I didn’t understand how purity culture affected me until I really started to deconstruct and learn what it all meant. Some women I talked to told me their stories and they were way more impacted than I was. But the more I understood my own belief about sex and how worried we were that we would turn on a man and how maybe even some of us gained weight because subconsciously we didn’t want to turn men on. The more you unwrap the layers, it becomes clearer and clearer. Sadly, P&G and GD are all the others won’t be peeling off the layers of all this and won’t fully understand it because they are so indoctrinated. I was there too and deconstruction is hella scary but there is so much freedom and peace on the other side and I wish that for everyone still stuck in it.
The amount of word salad that P&M (along with Girl Defined) have to engage in to say that they don't subscribe to purity culture... while still spreading purity culture is mind boggling. The level if cognitive dissonance they have to live in has to be brain-breaking sometimes.
The cognitive dissonance is truly mind blowing dear lord almighty I feel like I have whiplash from the pivots these two make.
Paul & Morgan present:
✨victim blaming LIVE✨
A journey through mind bending mockery of survivors and lack of compassion for literally anyone else who doesn’t agree with you. With a dash of ‘dear god Paul stop talking over your wife’ and walk with God so you don’t get violated, and if you do get violated, cause you probably will lol, than if the Lord is your true hommie than you won’t feel that trauma.
Let's not forget that Morgan is an SA survivor and Paul had to "forgive" her for not being a virgin when they married
which makes her attitude infinitely worse. it's one thing to not understand because you haven't been through it, but it's just a monster that denies other people who've had those experiences.
She's not an SA survivor, she was in a consensual long term relationship with a guy that she thought she would marry.
I find it interesting Paul corrected himself by mentioning "women" leaders telling the youth about modesty 🙄 One example that I experienced in purity culture was MEN youth leaders threatening youth girls by saying if we didn't wear one piece swimsuits at the camps they would shame us by giving us oversized shirts to wear over in order to swim or they will send us home because we will tempt the boys to stumble by wearing two pieces. Purity culture sexualizes women and it's the women's responsibility to keep men from being "tempted." If they assault you, then it's your fault. The first question is always, "Well what was she wearing?" Ugh!!! Paul and Morgan make me so furious because they don't represent God's love AT ALL.
tbh i dont think they let women be leaders in these fundamentalist churches
I talk openly about stuff with my 14 yr old . She is able to ask me stuff . I told her use protection and make sure your ready for that and wont regret it. That's just an example of our talks . I think its important that your teen can talk openly with you as a parent. They shouldn't be shamed for anything even if they make a mistake they gotta learn and get wisdom and experience just like we did
And if have a bad experience, they know they can come to you for support, not fearing judgement. So important
@@helenr4300 exactly
I feel fortunate that while I grew up in a Catholic household, my mom was always scientific and honest with me so that when I’d come home from school I was comfortable asking questions about what I’d learned. I still remember in high school doing my religion homework and having a multiple choice question about birth control basically being the same as an abortion, which I’d been told was not true, so I ask my mom. She said, “you’re correct but this is the answer the book wants you to put as correct”. I only learned about purity culture at school (which I was told to not take seriously).
Thank you so much for pointing out that these fundie influencers aren’t getting more progressive. Ppl have been saying it a lot lately and as an exvangelical, it just seems like a PR shift (with no actual belief change) to me. Purity culture had a hugely negative effect on me & there was so much I had to unlearn. Thank you for breaking this down and making this video!
The more Paul and Morgan talk the worse it gets “ You might be getting a bit Feministy” if you were harmed by teaching about modesty?!? I don’t think they know how ridiculous they sound.
Based on everything I've ever seen of these two (granted it's only been second hand), I genuinely cannot tell if they've ever had a thought of their own. And a guy who doesn't/can't seem to think for himself being married to a woman who believes she's supposed to obey and follow his lead is a very bleak combination. I could sympathize more with that situation based on their upbringing if they weren't so clearly hateful/obviously hypocritical.
Oh my god I am so tired of all these takes from people who DON'T KNOW WHAT PURITY CULTURE IS
Yes they see it as 'raised christian'. We can be raised Christian, advised to leave sex until marriage. But it doesn't need to come with all the blame the females for tempting males , and males seen as unable to resist.
Teaching no sex before marriage =/= no body positivity or affirming consent etc. Purity culture is so so much more than that, all the stuff that is not Biblical. (actually no sex before marriage is not technically Biblical, although it is reflected in the culture described in OT, just as in most of history where being able to confirm offspring as the husband's by control has been important)
The sexual book of the Bible (song of songs /song of Solomon) doesn't mention any marriage
Oh, they know. They're being disingenuous.
I've been waiting for this. I'm def gonna have to break this one up into chunks. Thank you for doing the work you do Mickey 💕
I love when you react to Paul and Morgan videos. Like if you reacted to every single one, I'd watch them all 😂😂
Me too. I actually love that it gives me a vehicle to have a healthy relationship and sex life to my now boyfriend after a 16 year old marriage that I had no voice in
I can’t watch this video right now but thank you for this! I relate to Morgan in weird ways because I feel like she is me when I was self medicating in a way using Christianity etc. I just see her as unwell and trapped almost. Maybe she’s already in past the point of no return but maybe she can grow or something idk. It’s so sad. And I can’t stand Paul so I wish she would run for the hills. I have BPD and PTSD and a lot more but I see my younger self in her so much.
She just seems so wan and weary and beaten down.
I think what people in purity culture don't understand is that humans in healthy happy situations will naturally discover and grow their sexuality. People who have education and safe environments typically won't have these kinds of hurdles to overcome in their sex life. You shouldn't have to be TAUGHT by your church leaders. Your guardians, your teachers and any other adult who is safe and appropriate should be able to guide you towards healthy and safe sexual behaviors at an appropriate age. The problem isn't that no one tells you how to "turn it on" once you're married; the problem is that they refuse to let you be an educated human, they shame you for the natural interest in your own body and other people's bodies. Perhaps worst of all, they don't teach people what IS inappropriate. That you are allowed to tell people "no" and other people can tell you "no" and you must respect that.
Grew up in purity culture and it was very traumatic. Every little sexual thought I had, or slightly revealing thing I wore, I thought I was going to be sent straight to hell. I was in a constant state of anxiety, especially when I was around my husband when we were dating. Then when we got married, It was a emotional rollercoaster trying to go from anything sexual being evil, to signing a paper and then everything was suddenly a green light.
I am so thankful for you and your channel, because hearing you talk about this is helping me in my journey on healing and realizing there is nothing wrong with me and that I am not damaged.❤