To ilustrate how much Ford fumbled these brands, when Jaguar was still in F1, one of Ford's chairmans asked in a meeting "Who's this Edmund Irvine and why are we paying him the second largest salary in the company?". They didn't even know their own drivers. And yet despite all that, if any of these brands had been bought by GM or Chrysler, none would've survived past 2009.
Jaguar prior to the Ford takeover were essentially using the same facilities and techniques that they had been in the late 60s prior to the BMC merger.
Your dry humour is much better than the majority of automotive-related channels I come across, let alone a bunch of YT channels in general, genuine laughs here and very well informed video without bloat or padding. Keep it up buddy., don't let any possible negative immature comments take you down just cause this isn't a n obnoxious Donut video or whatever.
Humor is great. The story telling too. I'm sure you've heard this already. But what strikes me (a former graphic designer) the most is your video style. The way cars are cut-out, the font, the colors, the margins and sizes, the jumpy motions... it's brilliant! Love you videos man, and I'd love to do a collab if you're interested :)
@@corsicar_ well, there are many reasons why (after 15 years in the industry) I switched from gfx design to making videos on UA-cam. So I'd say that you're better off like this
@@indiekiddrugpatrol3117 Yeah but they didnt just imoprove they got 10x better in terms of reliability of their cars both mechanically and electronically. 4.4l, 4.2l jaguar engines are the most reliable jaguar engines ever made period.
I worked at a PAG dealership. The worst clients we had were Ford employees who could now use their "A" plan to buy a car they couldn't really afford to own. I had a customer bring his XJ8 in for its first oil change. He was aghast when told it was $115. "But an oil change for my Taurus is only $30!" Yes, but despite who owns the company, this is a Jaguar, NOT a Ford. They also couldn't get over the fact that if something had to be special ordered, it was going to take weeks for the part to arrive from Coventry.
Great video! Especially with Ford basically discontinuing all of their iconic models like the Fiesta, Focus, Taurus, Mondeo etc, and Jaguar destroying their brand faster than the f-type can go from 0-60. Its great to see someone covering the *less* talked about part of the car space.
It's funny, i dont see old fords on the road at all. But I see old Buick Centurys, Oldsmobile Cutlass Cieras, Chevrolet Luminas, etc. on the road fairly frequently.
@aaronbryan5095 That's because Mazda wasn't fully owned and controlled by Ford. They still had an independence of management even though Ford owned them at 20%.
Ford did great things for Jaguar, including with quality. I worked in Ford’s Stamping Engineering Dept. And they brought great technology to Jaguar. For example, the rear window surround for the Jaguar XJS was made with (as I recall) 11 separate stampings, spot-welded together and finished with lead. Naturally many of them leaked and many XJSs bear witness to that. Ford showed them how to stamp that part in a single stamping.
As an owner of a Ford-era Volvo, it was so weird first learning about PAG, mainly because it felt like Ford tried to bury their mistakes. I just couldn’t find much information about it online. It was also quite funny when my dad was helping with a repair and he asked “why is ‘FoMoCo’ stamped into the sheet metal?” He was a Ford owner while Volvo was in PAG, yet he didn’t even know about it
Funny how Volvo is doing so much better under Geely ownership than Ford. My father worked at Volvo during those years and always complained about the decisions made by Ford, how they took all the profits without giving anything back, how they took Volvo developed technologies and gave it to Land Rover/Jaguar, how Volvo had to travel to the US, UK etc to teach these people how to build good cars, etc. Yes, believe it or not, my dad, an engineer at Volvo in Sweden, travelled to Ford factories in the US and had to tell them what they were doing wrong, both in terms of quality and cost. So, in essence, Volvo had to do a bunch of stuff "for free" within the group. Now they are doing record sales (even in these economic times) and turning good profits under Geely ownership. Geely are NOT taking ANY profits from Volvo, allowing Volvo to keep all their earned money and reinvest in the business, Geely is also actively investing in Europe - building R&D centers and design centers in Gothenburg, Sweden, and so on. Ford didn't do anything for Volvo... So while GM killed SAAB, Ford wasn't too far from accomplishing a similar feat with Volvo as well.
Working for a US company is a nightmare in general. I don't understand how that country can dominate world markets just thanks to a few key sectors such as software and finance. They more or less don't exist in other industries
Not mentioned is how much Ford was able to leverage Volvo's platforms into Ford models (Taurus and Explorer) and, at a time when safety was becoming a priority for mass-market American car buyers, Volvo's knowledge and reputation for leadership in this area.
@gertjanmoens4188 as was the Mondeo, the Mk3 in particular as the one which was implicated in these allegations was just as good as the B5 Passat. The only difference was that brand snobbery dictated the Passat a slightly superior standing compared to the more blue collar everyman reputation of a Ford.
Audi never quite had the image of then-Jaguar. Also, for Audi it could be said it went the other way - B1 platform Audi came out in 1972, B1 VW in 1973, for B2 it was 1978 Audi and 1980 VW, and for B5 1994 Audi and 1996 VW - the B3, B4 and B6 onwards have been on separate platforms. AFAIK in the early years at least Audi was sort of the engineering core of VAG.
Just the 3bg Passat was related to the A4. Every model before and after have completly different platforms. Passat with transversal mounted engine, a lot simpler axle construction with mc pherson and steel control arms. It is basically a stretched golf. The A4 on the other hand has longitudinal engines, permanent all wheel drive compared to haldex and the axle construction A6 and A8, with subframes, aluminium control arms, 5 link suspension and so on. However there was the Seat Exeo, which basically was a dressed up A4 in the late 2000 for a few model years.
The thing is that JLR and Aston thrived after their sale, largely due to Ford's previous investment. Ford funded platforms and factories (and maybe product planning?) carried them over for almost a decade. Volvo on the other hand, was product starved under Ford, while the blue oval used their large car platforms for themselves.
You're completely right. Aston had developed the DB9 and the vintage (baby Aston) during the Ford ownership and both cars were stonkingly good and very successful.
Pretty sure Volvo and Ford got in argument because Ford thought Volvo was making the XC90's roof too strong (Ford were purposely weakening the Explorer's roof at the time save cash, claiming a stronger roof didn't mean better rollover protection?!) Ford told Volvo to stop it, but Volvo just ignored them and proceeded to make the XC90 even stronger lol
The people at Volvo were not happy with Ford ownership. They would interfere with everything and gave them no freedom when designing the cars. I think Chinese ownership is much better. Volvo is now selling more cars than ever before.
@@bofomalsi4146 They're selling more cars because they got into the Chinese upscale market before most and built a reputation there. The cars themselves are awful now though. Reliability is near worst in class and the quality on top trim cars is shocking.
Ford wanted to buy Ferrari back in the 1960s, Enzo Ferrari was okay with selling their road car department, but Ford wanted both Ferrari's road car and motorsport companies, and Enzo who apparently didn't want his precious motorsport company to be in the hands of an amercian company, said no and told Ford to F off, calling off the deal. Ford later got pissed and wanted revenge on Ferrari, which led to their rivarly in the 24 hours of Le Mans in the 1960s.
@@desk-kun They avoided the complete mess that Ford is. Ford's Explorer EV is crap, and the resurrection of the Capri as another EV is just another example of how bad Ford is doing things. To be completely honest the ultracapitalist business ideology that roams around big american carmakers has seen echoes throughout history; look at GM in the 90s-2010s, FCA/stellantis and Ford (look no further away that this very video) Ford has only really aced the Mustang, F-Series and the Crown Vic. Of course, just my take but, it is not a one-off.
@@Yaro2 If Ford had bought Ferrari in 1963, by 1975 Ferrari would've been a trim level. Maranello Red or yellow paint, black grille, bumpers and window trim, beige Super-Soft Vinyl interior, sport steering wheel with simulated-wood rim, chrome shifter gate (unless automatic is ordered). Avalable on Pinto, Mustang II and two-door Maverick and Granada.
I still remember when I was 5 years old and my uncle bought a brand new 2009 Mondeo TDCi. Incredible car, it was a spaceship. I think Ford will never make a range of cars as good as the one from that time again.
I have a Ford era Jaguar (00 XJ8 L). I'm not a wealthy fellow, I paid $1000 for it because it needs its "major service" which is why I got it so cheap. I know how to wrench and haven't been to a mechanic for other than tires in like 15 years (and that was only because at the time I lived in an apartment and couldn't wrench in the parking lot). That is the most luxurious car I could possibly conceive. I can't imagine what curent luxury cars are like to drive and experience, but right now I'm still in culture shock.
Ford could've went for either Jaguar or SAAB. They went for Jaguar I'm curious what would've happened if SAAB was under Ford instead of GM before it died
@@AnyoneSeenMikeHunt I thought that too, but if SAAB lasted long enough before funds were pulled by Ford (like GM pulled funds) to get sold off then we might still be seeing them around today as a car company
Ford should have had better success with this. PAG was a very nice collection of brands, excepting Lincoln and Mercury, which were laughable as "luxury" brands at that time. Ford benefitted from its Volvo relationship the most, as Volvo's platform was a substantial foundation for many of Ford's future lineup. Taurus, Flex, Freestyle/Explorer, and all the Lincoln & Mercury variants of those models.
My father worked at Volvo during these times and explained how Ford constantly "stole" R&D and developed technologies from Volvo to give to other PAG brands or to Ford themselves. Volvo would develop, say a better way of producing something that gave higher quality while also cutting costs. Ford would say "Go teach that to Jaguar and Land Rover and don't bother investing in the technology yourself". Volvo engineers would travel to the US, UK, China and so on and teach the other brands in the group how to improve quality and cost. One time a person on my father's team who was specialized in paint shops had to travel from Sweden to China like 10 times in 6 months because Volvo were unhappy with how Ford ran a factory that produced Volvo, Ford and Mazda vehicles - especially with the paint that was horribly done.
One thing people never realise when they say Ford lost money on selling Volvo is Ford's D3/D4 platform came from the Volvo P2. They saved money on platform development costs. A new platform alone is billions.
i love your videos man. the calm colours, the jazzy music and the subtle banter just round up to make a very informative and enjoyable video. please keep your style and keep making more videos.
Dude I just wanna say that i hopped on on this channel this early when they had around 10 videos and watched them all, you guys obviously KNOW what you are doing and are DEFINITELY otw to be one of the best automotive channels on youtube. Great work, see ya when you have a million subs than the 51k now
Having owned a Ford era X-Type, X300, and V70, they all still feel unique and I enjoyed all of them. Repair and running costs are/were high though. Shock.
6:00 lol at not wanting to say 9/11 Meanwhile that one channel that does car reviews using the video game Spintires (Leftover Legacy or something?) is all like, "in September 2001 the greatest American tragedy happened: GM launched the Chevrolet Avalanche" Either way I love it🤣
Love your video. As an American who is old enough to remember all this nonsense; it just shows how just because you pay managers a lot of money doesn't mean they have any intelligence. When Ford finally got its hands on jaguar they were astonished to find how incredibly obsolete their production facilities were. You would think they would take a look at that before they handed over the money. Of course American managers are not alone in this, look how much money BMW pour down the rat hole of Rover. And Mercedes with Chrysler, and Mitsubishi which sometimes people forget about.
I am one of the biggest critics regarding quality of automotive history and chronology, but I have to say you are of the absolute best! And I thank you so much for doing a good job of educating people, while keeping it entertaining. You have an amazing attention to detail, which so many other automotive UA-camrs do not have and often muddle the historical context of their reporting horribly. We need more substance like you and less hubris like Doug Demuro (vids ok, not false facts of his).
A shame the Lincoln LS was abandoned before the McLaren tuned supercharged Cadillac CTS-V fighter made it to production. The '03-'06 LS is a very good car.
Great video. I appreciate the pace, the approach, the humor was great. I knew a lot of this info but seeing it consolidated and wrapped up like this was very enjoyable and appreciated
Absolutely amazing video. I find your editing perfect; it's not over the top and you talk a lot about the euro market which is what interests me the most. Thanks for these high-quality videos.
14:42 - actually his last name is pronounced as Moo-la-lee. The guy who was passed over for the top post of Boeing. Had Boeing kept him, perhaps the company wouldn't be in their current predicament - and Ford probably would have died...
Actually it's pronounced Alan Corp-rat-crook. The guy who screwed Ford workers from $76/hour to $55/hour only to line his own personal pockets with millions and millions of dollars. Then went on to be an even bigger a-hole at Google. BTW he was 'passed over' at Boeing because he hadn't yet developed the bloodlust sociopathic skill set developed by Phil Condit and Harry Stonecipher but he learned quickly. What a POS excuse for a human.
my family had a 2008 mondeo TDCi and we kept it for 13 years. we wouldve kept it for longer if it werent for the low emission zone in my city. absolutely brilliant car. still drove and felt amazing after all those years.
I remember playing games on the PS2 that had Land Rover and Ford only and was really confused as to why Land Rover And ford will be working together and I remember when my dad would go to dealerships to buy a new car we would always see Land rover Jaguar Mercury Lincoln and Ford together and they were successful for a time the Crown Victoria was the best selling car they had and the Grand Marquis but the moment they stopped producing it people went to GM to get the Chevy or Holden Caprice and Commodore or the Lumina as it was known in Saudi Arabia
@AnyoneSeenMikeHunt now I think about it yeah thr Crown Victoria was the only thing Holding things together the moment they stopped production everything became bad
I remember playing "Off-road" on the PS2 and being similarly confused. The irony of the Crown Vic situation in the Gulf is that GM's discontinuation of the Caprice in '96 is what lead to the increased popularity of the panther platform over here, in turn leading to GM to introduce a rebadged Holden Statesman in late 1999 for the 2000 model year (as part of the larger Holden export program they had).
I love this channel so much, I dunno if it's a content farm but as a mechanic, the content is at least nice to watch and actually informative. Very good. 👍
Probably not. Saab’s whole identity was being ‘different’ for its time. But time goes on, they did not change much and meanwhile brands like Tesla came to the market. Tesla is now the new ‘different’ brand. Additionally Volvo was sold to the Chinese. So if that happens to Volvo, then the other Swedish brand would not have been better off. There’s no way. I remember years ago my economics teacher somewhere in middle school saying that Saab was a luxury brand. I spat out my drink laughing.
@@davieee1168 10 minutes of wiki on the companies, countries, ownerships, global economics, marketing and timelines you mention would have you either writing something tangible or nothing at all but not this disconnected gibberish. Researching topics before typing is not hard and will save you from embarrassment said my middle school teacher.
Yet another amazing video! All of the facts and figures are presented in a brilliant way, edited perfectly with the perfect dose of humour. I love the sneaky little jokes such as 0:30 and 6:07. Keep it up!
PAG *could* have worked, but it was Ford in the 2000s. Although I never understood why they wanted both Jaguar and Volvo. Before Ford, Volvo wasn't really a “premium” brand, and to be fair, Ford did turn it into one. But why, when they already had Jaguar and Lincoln? It always seemed to me a case of them buying it because they could. Aston, Jaguar (or Volvo), Land-Rover, and Lincoln could have been a nice little division, with Aston providing engines and a bit of halo effect to the performance Jags (or Volvos), Jag (or Volvo) sharing platforms with Lincoln, and Land-Rover being Land-Rover, cashing in on the SUV boom, maybe sharing platforms with Volvo and Lincoln. It all makes a lot of sense. But yeah... Ford in the 2000s.
I always thought the X351 XJ was too good for Ford to have let go in the Tata deal, they should've kept the design for themselves and made it the new flagship Lincoln only changing badges and the grille insert. It could've replaced the Panther Town Car but with a new name, since that been decontented out of the luxury class except as a fleet car, an upgrade from a yellow taxi but not much else. Ford in the early 2010s was selling the MKT for that, that would continue in this scenario.
i never really got the clarkson bit about "just a mondeo underneath". Because appearently he and the other guys loved the mondeo! and for a good reason, its an unexpensive practical car on a really good chasis.
It's mad how the whole concept ended up being a failure, considering we got some of the icons of that era - the facelifted L322 with the TDV8, the DB9, the P1 Volvos, the new Jag XK...
I owned a B4 Passat wagon for a few months. Fully loaded with heated leather seats and a sunroof and a 1.8 turbo. I just called it my Audi Passat and we all laughed about it. Companies rebadge cars all the time.
But they actually saved the British brands by bringing all their systems from electrical to assembly to modern standards, and, in turn, made them all attractive, viable brands again that's could be sold off and continue as viable brands again. Otherwise, all those brands would be long gone by now
I've witness the whole saga growing up. I've even read about the PAG on magazines, or in the newspapers especially on the section about motoring news. I've been a huge Ford fan, and also a huge Land Rover enthusiast, and Aston Martin and Jaguar. It's incredible that Ford managed to own these three British marques. But sadly, while reading about it back in the middle of the 2000's. I've always wondered it's huge potential in the industry. They employed one of the best automotive designers, Ian Callum, Frank Stephenson, and Jay Mays. They could've been a huge potential to rival Volkswagen's Premium Group of Companies. However Ford is too beaurucratic and not that well organised as VW or BMW. But the good thing they did is fix this problem sooner before the 2008 financial crisis. With Alan Mulally's financial restructure of the company in 2006. It prepared and saved Ford from bankruptcy. At least they didn't end up killing off these brands. Only Mercury was killed, but no one knows Mercury outside US.
my dad had a jaguar, xk8 1999 convertible, it wasnt bad at all, it was pretty it had good materials, it wasnnt bad, it was THE WORST, MOST UNRELIABLE CAR THIS HOUSEHOLD HAS EVER SEEN OH MY GOD IT BROKE DOWN EVERYWHERE IT WENT
Always baffles me that Americans refer to BMW, mercedes and Audi as "luxury" brands. They're just regular cars in Germany/Europe, albeit properly built ones. Luxury brands are Aston Martin, rolls Royce, Bentley, Maserati, Bugatti, etc. how is a BMW 318d a luxury car? 😂
A BMW 318d isn’t a luxury model, but the base model 3 series sold here in the United States is the 330i with the 255 hp B48. We don’t get the lowest spec versions here.
BMW took the Apple approach over here; Selling lifestyles under a gaslit notion that everything since the e30 are god-tier quality products, one grossly overpriced and slightly worse car at a time. VW (and to a lesser extent Audi), for all their faults at least they were quite honest over here about the disposable 1-owner nature of their cars, and that was fine.. when their prices were still sane. Nobody here in the states has viewed VW/Audi or BMW as luxury brands in decades, just grossly overpriced. Merc on the other hand, really depends on the model, but we don't buy those for the status or luxury, their fans go directly to something that's gonna last a minute. C and E class for example are very popular here, all of them, of all ages. Build quality, I think is better than anything else out of Germany for years running, but you be the judge. I WILL say some US spec VW's in recent times (last 25yrs) have had stellar build quality, fantastic really, just let down by plastics that start to rot before the castings cooled down lol. I have nothing nice to say about Audi, any of them, from any era.
Trust me, they are over here. When the United States Postal Service began using Mercedes Metris vans, they actually had to cover up the exterior logos so that people didn't think their taxpayer dollars were being wasted on overly luxurious mail vans
Mercedes, BMW and Audi were doing the same thing, buying smaller weaker brands, either to move upmarket or more mass market in new regions. BMW bought Rover, Mini, Rolls Royce to expand luxury offeringa Audi bought Bentley, Lamborghini, Bugatti to go more premium As for Mercedes they bought all of Chrysler with Mitsubishi to have a bigger presence in America and Asia. There weren't getting anything more premium there. But later they bought Aston Martin after Ford, and later Tata was done with it.
This is such a great video and I am so glad I found your channel a few weeks ago. Your videos are absolute class and I look forward to your future content! Keep up the great work and may the algorithm bless your channel with lots of subscribers in 2025!! :)
To be fair, this really wasn't given enough time. Most of their cars remained on different platforms and using different engines, because most of the were too new to be replaced. Then again Ford never really managed to integrate Mazda platforms either, so management is definitely somewhat to blame...
The guy really does look like a Greek Phil Collins, I guess you may say, He Wished It Would Rain Down or He Hurried Love or maybe He Just Had a Feeling In The Air that night. Okay I'll stop.
You gotta give Ford credit these brands had issues ,yes the cars were blandish , but the internals of these vehicles were upgraded ,modernize and streamlined . Honestly without Ford most of them would have died in 2008 recession.
The X-type not actually being a ford mondeo underneath doesn't particularly matter if it feels like a mondeo in person. Just the door handles alone on that car feel like they've been dug from the bargain bin bottom of the partsbin let alone ride quality, insulation and hte like
The premier group may have been a disaster but it was arguably the best era for most manufacturers (in terms of how good the products were, not profits).
To ilustrate how much Ford fumbled these brands, when Jaguar was still in F1, one of Ford's chairmans asked in a meeting "Who's this Edmund Irvine and why are we paying him the second largest salary in the company?". They didn't even know their own drivers.
And yet despite all that, if any of these brands had been bought by GM or Chrysler, none would've survived past 2009.
They even killed saab 🤦♂️
@@paweltodudek Saab was GM
Turns out a lot of people in high paying jobs don't have a clue what they're doing.
GM tries to be a global brand but they just failed of doing just that.
No, If those brands has been brought by GM they would sold for other auto company..
When a mid 90s Ford exec calls your quality horrendous it must have been truly awful.
Jaguar prior to the Ford takeover were essentially using the same facilities and techniques that they had been in the late 60s prior to the BMC merger.
I wonder what that mid 90's exec would have to say about modern Ford
I own a 1990 Jag. They were right.
2024, nothing changed.
Your dry humour is much better than the majority of automotive-related channels I come across, let alone a bunch of YT channels in general, genuine laughs here and very well informed video without bloat or padding. Keep it up buddy., don't let any possible negative immature comments take you down just cause this isn't a n obnoxious Donut video or whatever.
thank you I love you too
@@corsicar_ your content's honestly a breath of fresh air
And the style of those jokes tells that you have internalised what you have read while researching.
Donut media or whazever is pure aids
It’s like he came from the 2016’s or smthn
Humor is great. The story telling too. I'm sure you've heard this already. But what strikes me (a former graphic designer) the most is your video style. The way cars are cut-out, the font, the colors, the margins and sizes, the jumpy motions... it's brilliant! Love you videos man, and I'd love to do a collab if you're interested :)
Hey stype, what's up?
@@Idiotfarmlandfernlog hey idiotfarm. nothing much. just editing the next vid
@@TopCarsTV can't wait for it to drop!
thanks, well I would've studied graphic design if my application hadn't been rejected. oops!
@@corsicar_ well, there are many reasons why (after 15 years in the industry) I switched from gfx design to making videos on UA-cam. So I'd say that you're better off like this
Saab being owned by ford feels like a fucking fever dream
Wake up Jacob.
The sad thing is that Jaguar did very well with Ford. Pretty much Jaguars under the Ford era are the most reliable in their history.
Before Ford they had no money and were hand building cars using 1950s era facilities. Literally any major automaker could have improved on that.
They can be reliable all they want, but if no one wants to buy it…
@@indiekiddrugpatrol3117 Yeah but they didnt just imoprove they got 10x better in terms of reliability of their cars both mechanically and electronically. 4.4l, 4.2l jaguar engines are the most reliable jaguar engines ever made period.
I have a 98 XJ8 that was owned by my grandmother and she left it to me when she passed it’s been the most trouble free car I’ve owned.
@Baimobile7 No one you say?
I see plenty of modern Jags about so it's not no one. In fact I only need to look on my own driveway.
I worked at a PAG dealership. The worst clients we had were Ford employees who could now use their "A" plan to buy a car they couldn't really afford to own. I had a customer bring his XJ8 in for its first oil change. He was aghast when told it was $115. "But an oil change for my Taurus is only $30!" Yes, but despite who owns the company, this is a Jaguar, NOT a Ford. They also couldn't get over the fact that if something had to be special ordered, it was going to take weeks for the part to arrive from Coventry.
dude i'd be weirded out to live in a universe where alpina became the performance brand of JAGUAR of all things
There is also Alpine, the performance sub-brand of Renault 🇫🇷
@@dinohermann1887 alpine is quite literally its own brand
If you think that is weird, imagine a world where Ford owns BMW.
Great video! Especially with Ford basically discontinuing all of their iconic models like the Fiesta, Focus, Taurus, Mondeo etc, and Jaguar destroying their brand faster than the f-type can go from 0-60. Its great to see someone covering the *less* talked about part of the car space.
admittedly there's no not much to destroy with Jaguar in terms of profitability
they've been doing 2010 Saab numbers for half a decade now
Premier Automotive Group's old HQ in Irvine ended up becoming Taco Bell HQ actually
Seriously??
@@caarloosppp Indeed! maps.app.goo.gl/twCragkMnYTF7tL59?g_st=ic
Wow
Oh so if GM had bought Jaguar the latter would have been done 15 years earlier.
and Saab might've been around still if taken over by Ford
@@kristoffer3000 I'm just glad that Mazda is now standing well and isn't permanently crippled by Ford.
Look on the bright side: we got the F-Type in this timeline
It's funny, i dont see old fords on the road at all. But I see old Buick Centurys, Oldsmobile Cutlass Cieras, Chevrolet Luminas, etc. on the road fairly frequently.
@aaronbryan5095 That's because Mazda wasn't fully owned and controlled by Ford. They still had an independence of management even though Ford owned them at 20%.
Ford did great things for Jaguar, including with quality. I worked in Ford’s Stamping Engineering Dept. And they brought great technology to Jaguar. For example, the rear window surround for the Jaguar XJS was made with (as I recall) 11 separate stampings, spot-welded together and finished with lead. Naturally many of them leaked and many XJSs bear witness to that. Ford showed them how to stamp that part in a single stamping.
As an owner of a Ford-era Volvo, it was so weird first learning about PAG, mainly because it felt like Ford tried to bury their mistakes. I just couldn’t find much information about it online. It was also quite funny when my dad was helping with a repair and he asked “why is ‘FoMoCo’ stamped into the sheet metal?” He was a Ford owner while Volvo was in PAG, yet he didn’t even know about it
Funny how Volvo is doing so much better under Geely ownership than Ford. My father worked at Volvo during those years and always complained about the decisions made by Ford, how they took all the profits without giving anything back, how they took Volvo developed technologies and gave it to Land Rover/Jaguar, how Volvo had to travel to the US, UK etc to teach these people how to build good cars, etc. Yes, believe it or not, my dad, an engineer at Volvo in Sweden, travelled to Ford factories in the US and had to tell them what they were doing wrong, both in terms of quality and cost. So, in essence, Volvo had to do a bunch of stuff "for free" within the group.
Now they are doing record sales (even in these economic times) and turning good profits under Geely ownership. Geely are NOT taking ANY profits from Volvo, allowing Volvo to keep all their earned money and reinvest in the business, Geely is also actively investing in Europe - building R&D centers and design centers in Gothenburg, Sweden, and so on. Ford didn't do anything for Volvo...
So while GM killed SAAB, Ford wasn't too far from accomplishing a similar feat with Volvo as well.
Unfortunately Volvos reliability is now horrendous. It was much better prior to the Geely ownership.
Wow this is interesting. Sounds like if it wasn’t for Geely, Volvo would have been killed by Ford
Volvos reliability are in pair with the competition… I see no current BMW or Mercedes better than Volvo
Geely buying Volvo was the bargain of the century
Working for a US company is a nightmare in general. I don't understand how that country can dominate world markets just thanks to a few key sectors such as software and finance. They more or less don't exist in other industries
Not mentioned is how much Ford was able to leverage Volvo's platforms into Ford models (Taurus and Explorer) and, at a time when safety was becoming a priority for mass-market American car buyers, Volvo's knowledge and reputation for leadership in this area.
I've never understood why the X-type Mondeo thing was so bad. The Audi a4 was always very closely related to the VW Passat and no one batted an eye.
Because the Passat was a good car.
@gertjanmoens4188 as was the Mondeo, the Mk3 in particular as the one which was implicated in these allegations was just as good as the B5 Passat. The only difference was that brand snobbery dictated the Passat a slightly superior standing compared to the more blue collar everyman reputation of a Ford.
Audi never quite had the image of then-Jaguar. Also, for Audi it could be said it went the other way - B1 platform Audi came out in 1972, B1 VW in 1973, for B2 it was 1978 Audi and 1980 VW, and for B5 1994 Audi and 1996 VW - the B3, B4 and B6 onwards have been on separate platforms. AFAIK in the early years at least Audi was sort of the engineering core of VAG.
Just the 3bg Passat was related to the A4. Every model before and after have completly different platforms.
Passat with transversal mounted engine, a lot simpler axle construction with mc pherson and steel control arms. It is basically a stretched golf.
The A4 on the other hand has longitudinal engines, permanent all wheel drive compared to haldex and the axle construction A6 and A8, with subframes, aluminium control arms, 5 link suspension and so on.
However there was the Seat Exeo, which basically was a dressed up A4 in the late 2000 for a few model years.
X Type a good car belittled by the press for silly reasons; based on a Ford and retro styling, so what?
The thing is that JLR and Aston thrived after their sale, largely due to Ford's previous investment. Ford funded platforms and factories (and maybe product planning?) carried them over for almost a decade. Volvo on the other hand, was product starved under Ford, while the blue oval used their large car platforms for themselves.
You're completely right. Aston had developed the DB9 and the vintage (baby Aston) during the Ford ownership and both cars were stonkingly good and very successful.
Pretty sure Volvo and Ford got in argument because Ford thought Volvo was making the XC90's roof too strong (Ford were purposely weakening the Explorer's roof at the time save cash, claiming a stronger roof didn't mean better rollover protection?!) Ford told Volvo to stop it, but Volvo just ignored them and proceeded to make the XC90 even stronger lol
The people at Volvo were not happy with Ford ownership. They would interfere with everything and gave them no freedom when designing the cars. I think Chinese ownership is much better. Volvo is now selling more cars than ever before.
@@bofomalsi4146 They're selling more cars because they got into the Chinese upscale market before most and built a reputation there. The cars themselves are awful now though. Reliability is near worst in class and the quality on top trim cars is shocking.
@@julianturberfield7101 nonsense
Seeing what happened to PAG in the end is a clear reminder of how big the bullet that Ferrari dodged in the 1960s.
Could you elaborate? I wish to learn more.
Can you tell what they avoided? Im curious
Ford wanted to buy Ferrari back in the 1960s, Enzo Ferrari was okay with selling their road car department, but Ford wanted both Ferrari's road car and motorsport companies, and Enzo who apparently didn't want his precious motorsport company to be in the hands of an amercian company, said no and told Ford to F off, calling off the deal. Ford later got pissed and wanted revenge on Ferrari, which led to their rivarly in the 24 hours of Le Mans in the 1960s.
@@desk-kun They avoided the complete mess that Ford is. Ford's Explorer EV is crap, and the resurrection of the Capri as another EV is just another example of how bad Ford is doing things. To be completely honest the ultracapitalist business ideology that roams around big american carmakers has seen echoes throughout history; look at GM in the 90s-2010s, FCA/stellantis and Ford (look no further away that this very video)
Ford has only really aced the Mustang, F-Series and the Crown Vic. Of course, just my take but, it is not a one-off.
@@Yaro2 If Ford had bought Ferrari in 1963, by 1975 Ferrari would've been a trim level. Maranello Red or yellow paint, black grille, bumpers and window trim, beige Super-Soft Vinyl interior, sport steering wheel with simulated-wood rim, chrome shifter gate (unless automatic is ordered). Avalable on Pinto, Mustang II and two-door Maverick and Granada.
I still remember when I was 5 years old and my uncle bought a brand new 2009 Mondeo TDCi. Incredible car, it was a spaceship. I think Ford will never make a range of cars as good as the one from that time again.
The adverts from that era were unmatched too. Shame the one with the Focus driving through toytown is LoSt MeDiA.
My dad had a 2007, same shape. Massive step up from his mk2 Focus. He’s a Skoda man now as nothing else really compares value and quality anymore.
crown vic :3
Must have been a manual. The PowerShift automatics were (and still are) terrible.
@@E46SedanGaming 1980s car with updated drivetrain and design, pure simplicity
I have a Ford era Jaguar (00 XJ8 L). I'm not a wealthy fellow, I paid $1000 for it because it needs its "major service" which is why I got it so cheap. I know how to wrench and haven't been to a mechanic for other than tires in like 15 years (and that was only because at the time I lived in an apartment and couldn't wrench in the parking lot). That is the most luxurious car I could possibly conceive. I can't imagine what curent luxury cars are like to drive and experience, but right now I'm still in culture shock.
10:26 I hate that I got this immediately
Is this loss?
Definitely a | || | | | ~ moment
I got this, but I didn't even flinch. Like, of course there's a meme here now that we got Hawk To-A last video.
I don’t understand, is it some sorta brain rot thing? If so im old af
@ no it s actually a meme from like 2008 or around that time
Man, Jaguar has had it ROUGH, explains a lot
It is wild to see Volvos sales numbers under Geely compared to while they were under Ford’s ownership
I had a good laugh at the guy at 4:39 measuring the panel gap with a caliper. That panel gap needs a measuring tape 😂
This is a channel worth watching every single video.
Even the mac startup one
The visual style and the humor of your videos really amuse me! Keep on doing this good work, please. You’re one of my favorite yt channels
Ford could've went for either Jaguar or SAAB. They went for Jaguar
I'm curious what would've happened if SAAB was under Ford instead of GM before it died
Exactly the same thing would have happened. Ford and GM are not car manufacturers they are both venture capital vultures.
SAAB would be owned by Tata Motors alongside Land Rover.
@@AnyoneSeenMikeHunt I thought that too, but if SAAB lasted long enough before funds were pulled by Ford (like GM pulled funds) to get sold off then we might still be seeing them around today as a car company
@@motherurck7542 that would actually be cool
Saab was shit anyways
Ford should have had better success with this. PAG was a very nice collection of brands, excepting Lincoln and Mercury, which were laughable as "luxury" brands at that time. Ford benefitted from its Volvo relationship the most, as Volvo's platform was a substantial foundation for many of Ford's future lineup. Taurus, Flex, Freestyle/Explorer, and all the Lincoln & Mercury variants of those models.
My father worked at Volvo during these times and explained how Ford constantly "stole" R&D and developed technologies from Volvo to give to other PAG brands or to Ford themselves. Volvo would develop, say a better way of producing something that gave higher quality while also cutting costs. Ford would say "Go teach that to Jaguar and Land Rover and don't bother investing in the technology yourself". Volvo engineers would travel to the US, UK, China and so on and teach the other brands in the group how to improve quality and cost. One time a person on my father's team who was specialized in paint shops had to travel from Sweden to China like 10 times in 6 months because Volvo were unhappy with how Ford ran a factory that produced Volvo, Ford and Mazda vehicles - especially with the paint that was horribly done.
One thing people never realise when they say Ford lost money on selling Volvo is Ford's D3/D4 platform came from the Volvo P2. They saved money on platform development costs. A new platform alone is billions.
the XC60 increasing sales YoY is... wild lol
Volvo should’ve built their S80 II on Jaguar XF’s RWD platform.
What? 🤣 Congrats on making that connection. Good or bad that is out there brother.
nah, it's easier to make a transverse car safer than a longitudial one.
@@AnyoneSeenMikeHuntwhat are you mumbling about?
P2 chassis was already in development when Ford bought them. Was literally said in the video.
@@MrProSwe Except the S80 II wasn't built on the P2 platform lmfao, you're thinking of the OG S80 from 98-07.
i love your videos man. the calm colours, the jazzy music and the subtle banter just round up to make a very informative and enjoyable video. please keep your style and keep making more videos.
Dude I just wanna say that i hopped on on this channel this early when they had around 10 videos and watched them all, you guys obviously KNOW what you are doing and are DEFINITELY otw to be one of the best automotive channels on youtube. Great work, see ya when you have a million subs than the 51k now
Having owned a Ford era X-Type, X300, and V70, they all still feel unique and I enjoyed all of them. Repair and running costs are/were high though. Shock.
6:00 lol at not wanting to say 9/11
Meanwhile that one channel that does car reviews using the video game Spintires (Leftover Legacy or something?) is all like, "in September 2001 the greatest American tragedy happened: GM launched the Chevrolet Avalanche"
Either way I love it🤣
Love your video. As an American who is old enough to remember all this nonsense; it just shows how just because you pay managers a lot of money doesn't mean they have any intelligence. When Ford finally got its hands on jaguar they were astonished to find how incredibly obsolete their production facilities were. You would think they would take a look at that before they handed over the money.
Of course American managers are not alone in this, look how much money BMW pour down the rat hole of Rover. And Mercedes with Chrysler, and Mitsubishi which sometimes people forget about.
I am one of the biggest critics regarding quality of automotive history and chronology, but I have to say you are of the absolute best!
And I thank you so much for doing a good job of educating people, while keeping it entertaining.
You have an amazing attention to detail, which so many other automotive UA-camrs do not have and often muddle the historical context of their reporting horribly.
We need more substance like you and less hubris like Doug Demuro (vids ok, not false facts of his).
love how the aston martin rolling away had a tdi sound😂
As an American, I always thought the x type was a Taurus, until about 10 years ago when I learned more about the Lincoln LS
And the x type still isn’t related to the Lincoln LS
6:07 "greek phil collins" pretty accurate
Your video style is awesome dude, you’re the only channel in this format, please keep going I look forward to enjoying your content for years to come!
A shame the Lincoln LS was abandoned before the McLaren tuned supercharged Cadillac CTS-V fighter made it to production. The '03-'06 LS is a very good car.
Great video. I appreciate the pace, the approach, the humor was great. I knew a lot of this info but seeing it consolidated and wrapped up like this was very enjoyable and appreciated
Absolutely amazing video. I find your editing perfect; it's not over the top and you talk a lot about the euro market which is what interests me the most. Thanks for these high-quality videos.
Yeah, the U.S. market here has become so uninspiring.
14:42 - actually his last name is pronounced as Moo-la-lee. The guy who was passed over for the top post of Boeing. Had Boeing kept him, perhaps the company wouldn't be in their current predicament - and Ford probably would have died...
Actually it's pronounced Alan Corp-rat-crook. The guy who screwed Ford workers from $76/hour to $55/hour only to line his own personal pockets with millions and millions of dollars. Then went on to be an even bigger a-hole at Google. BTW he was 'passed over' at Boeing because he hadn't yet developed the bloodlust sociopathic skill set developed by Phil Condit and Harry Stonecipher but he learned quickly. What a POS excuse for a human.
Hon the Mullally/Mullaly/Mulallys. Top tier surname 👑
my family had a 2008 mondeo TDCi and we kept it for 13 years. we wouldve kept it for longer if it werent for the low emission zone in my city. absolutely brilliant car. still drove and felt amazing after all those years.
Well produced video. Thank you for the content!!!
“I know, let’s collect failing luxury auto brands + Volvo and try to have them make money”
I remember playing games on the PS2 that had Land Rover and Ford only and was really confused as to why Land Rover And ford will be working together and I remember when my dad would go to dealerships to buy a new car we would always see Land rover Jaguar Mercury Lincoln and Ford together and they were successful for a time the Crown Victoria was the best selling car they had and the Grand Marquis but the moment they stopped producing it people went to GM to get the Chevy or Holden Caprice and Commodore or the Lumina as it was known in Saudi Arabia
So you're saying the Crown Victoria killed video games?
@AnyoneSeenMikeHunt now I think about it yeah thr Crown Victoria was the only thing Holding things together the moment they stopped production everything became bad
I remember playing "Off-road" on the PS2 and being similarly confused.
The irony of the Crown Vic situation in the Gulf is that GM's discontinuation of the Caprice in '96 is what lead to the increased popularity of the panther platform over here, in turn leading to GM to introduce a rebadged Holden Statesman in late 1999 for the 2000 model year (as part of the larger Holden export program they had).
I love this channel so much, I dunno if it's a content farm but as a mechanic, the content is at least nice to watch and actually informative. Very good. 👍
I did not realize that Ford was interested in Saab. Begs the question, would Saab still be around today if Ford had purchased them?
I think so. Gm is a brand killer
What if the world was made of pudding?
@AuroraBeyond888 🤣 GOLD! 🏆
Probably not. Saab’s whole identity was being ‘different’ for its time. But time goes on, they did not change much and meanwhile brands like Tesla came to the market. Tesla is now the new ‘different’ brand. Additionally Volvo was sold to the Chinese. So if that happens to Volvo, then the other Swedish brand would not have been better off. There’s no way.
I remember years ago my economics teacher somewhere in middle school saying that Saab was a luxury brand. I spat out my drink laughing.
@@davieee1168 10 minutes of wiki on the companies, countries, ownerships, global economics, marketing and timelines you mention would have you either writing something tangible or nothing at all but not this disconnected gibberish. Researching topics before typing is not hard and will save you from embarrassment said my middle school teacher.
I appreciate your cadence with a slight touch of humor
rip peter horbury
Long form corsicar content? Amazing
Yet another amazing video! All of the facts and figures are presented in a brilliant way, edited perfectly with the perfect dose of humour.
I love the sneaky little jokes such as 0:30 and 6:07. Keep it up!
Who else is sad at how ford handle volvo?
not as sad as how GM handled saab
It's wasn't too bad tbh. Without Ford the V40 wouldn't exist so I'm thankful.
@@colagesichtand the v50! Was my 2nd car:) Volvo bits were great, ford bits.. were ford bits (rusty) 😅
@@john_barnett The final Saab 9-5 and whatever SUV they had were great looking cars. So sad when Saab died.
@@john_barnett god damn.
Ford basically did a European bail out before US did their automotive bailout lol. 😅
Billion Dollars of Losses just so I could enjoy a Volvo (V40) with the fun driving characteristcs of the Ford Focus Plattform.
Yay a Mk1 C70 got a second of screen time.
10:28 no way you did the Loss meme 😂😂
PAG *could* have worked, but it was Ford in the 2000s. Although I never understood why they wanted both Jaguar and Volvo. Before Ford, Volvo wasn't really a “premium” brand, and to be fair, Ford did turn it into one. But why, when they already had Jaguar and Lincoln? It always seemed to me a case of them buying it because they could.
Aston, Jaguar (or Volvo), Land-Rover, and Lincoln could have been a nice little division, with Aston providing engines and a bit of halo effect to the performance Jags (or Volvos), Jag (or Volvo) sharing platforms with Lincoln, and Land-Rover being Land-Rover, cashing in on the SUV boom, maybe sharing platforms with Volvo and Lincoln. It all makes a lot of sense.
But yeah... Ford in the 2000s.
Kind of reminds me of Michael Bay and placing a bunch of GM products in the live action Transformers films
I always thought the X351 XJ was too good for Ford to have let go in the Tata deal, they should've kept the design for themselves and made it the new flagship Lincoln only changing badges and the grille insert. It could've replaced the Panther Town Car but with a new name, since that been decontented out of the luxury class except as a fleet car, an upgrade from a yellow taxi but not much else. Ford in the early 2010s was selling the MKT for that, that would continue in this scenario.
i never really got the clarkson bit about "just a mondeo underneath". Because appearently he and the other guys loved the mondeo! and for a good reason, its an unexpensive practical car on a really good chasis.
Fun fact: PAG was headquartered in Irvine, CA. After Ford shut down PAG, Taco Bell moved into that building.
It's mad how the whole concept ended up being a failure, considering we got some of the icons of that era - the facelifted L322 with the TDV8, the DB9, the P1 Volvos, the new Jag XK...
I owned a B4 Passat wagon for a few months. Fully loaded with heated leather seats and a sunroof and a 1.8 turbo. I just called it my Audi Passat and we all laughed about it. Companies rebadge cars all the time.
1:14 Wisconsin mentioned! LFG!!!
But they actually saved the British brands by bringing all their systems from electrical to assembly to modern standards, and, in turn, made them all attractive, viable brands again that's could be sold off and continue as viable brands again. Otherwise, all those brands would be long gone by now
Ford only took over Volvo cars not Volvo trucks. I don't think Volvo cars would be gone if they hadn't been sold.
I've witness the whole saga growing up. I've even read about the PAG on magazines, or in the newspapers especially on the section about motoring news. I've been a huge Ford fan, and also a huge Land Rover enthusiast, and Aston Martin and Jaguar. It's incredible that Ford managed to own these three British marques. But sadly, while reading about it back in the middle of the 2000's. I've always wondered it's huge potential in the industry. They employed one of the best automotive designers, Ian Callum, Frank Stephenson, and Jay Mays. They could've been a huge potential to rival Volkswagen's Premium Group of Companies. However Ford is too beaurucratic and not that well organised as VW or BMW. But the good thing they did is fix this problem sooner before the 2008 financial crisis. With Alan Mulally's financial restructure of the company in 2006. It prepared and saved Ford from bankruptcy. At least they didn't end up killing off these brands. Only Mercury was killed, but no one knows Mercury outside US.
my dad had a jaguar, xk8 1999 convertible, it wasnt bad at all, it was pretty it had good materials, it wasnnt bad, it was THE WORST, MOST UNRELIABLE CAR THIS HOUSEHOLD HAS EVER SEEN OH MY GOD IT BROKE DOWN EVERYWHERE IT WENT
Always baffles me that Americans refer to BMW, mercedes and Audi as "luxury" brands. They're just regular cars in Germany/Europe, albeit properly built ones. Luxury brands are Aston Martin, rolls Royce, Bentley, Maserati, Bugatti, etc. how is a BMW 318d a luxury car? 😂
A BMW 318d isn’t a luxury model, but the base model 3 series sold here in the United States is the 330i with the 255 hp B48. We don’t get the lowest spec versions here.
BMW took the Apple approach over here; Selling lifestyles under a gaslit notion that everything since the e30 are god-tier quality products, one grossly overpriced and slightly worse car at a time. VW (and to a lesser extent Audi), for all their faults at least they were quite honest over here about the disposable 1-owner nature of their cars, and that was fine.. when their prices were still sane. Nobody here in the states has viewed VW/Audi or BMW as luxury brands in decades, just grossly overpriced.
Merc on the other hand, really depends on the model, but we don't buy those for the status or luxury, their fans go directly to something that's gonna last a minute. C and E class for example are very popular here, all of them, of all ages. Build quality, I think is better than anything else out of Germany for years running, but you be the judge.
I WILL say some US spec VW's in recent times (last 25yrs) have had stellar build quality, fantastic really, just let down by plastics that start to rot before the castings cooled down lol. I have nothing nice to say about Audi, any of them, from any era.
Trust me, they are over here. When the United States Postal Service began using Mercedes Metris vans, they actually had to cover up the exterior logos so that people didn't think their taxpayer dollars were being wasted on overly luxurious mail vans
they are luxury brands that reflects the price , regular brands are opel/vauxhall , peugot/citreon and fiat .
Mercedes, BMW and Audi were doing the same thing, buying smaller weaker brands, either to move upmarket or more mass market in new regions.
BMW bought Rover, Mini, Rolls Royce to expand luxury offeringa
Audi bought Bentley, Lamborghini, Bugatti to go more premium
As for Mercedes they bought all of Chrysler with Mitsubishi to have a bigger presence in America and Asia. There weren't getting anything more premium there. But later they bought Aston Martin after Ford, and later Tata was done with it.
So underrated storytelling.🎉
This is such a great video and I am so glad I found your channel a few weeks ago. Your videos are absolute class and I look forward to your future content!
Keep up the great work and may the algorithm bless your channel with lots of subscribers in 2025!! :)
To be fair, this really wasn't given enough time. Most of their cars remained on different platforms and using different engines, because most of the were too new to be replaced. Then again Ford never really managed to integrate Mazda platforms either, so management is definitely somewhat to blame...
The guy really does look like a Greek Phil Collins, I guess you may say, He Wished It Would Rain Down or He Hurried Love or maybe He Just Had a Feeling In The Air that night. Okay I'll stop.
Good gracious, Geely did make a stunningly good deal!
Never been so early to a corsicar video. We are in for blessed times
PAG is Penske Automotive Group, who owns dealerships and body shops throughout the country.
Love your videos man, please keep making them, your dry humour proper throws me off and actually make me laugh
Great work in this channel. Love it
The Jaguar's rebranding nowadays situation, it's better they become Ford's owned again..
This explains why most parts in my Volvos engine are labeled with “FOMOCO” ford motor company. Didn’t even look for this video, it found me haha.
"On... that date" 💀
Ford updated L322 were one of the best ones.
Corsicar I love how you do your comentray!!!
this channel is so so good i can see you becoming much bigger very soon im happy im here early.
Considering the state of Land Rover, jag, and Aston Martin back then, if ford hasn’t bought them they probably wouldn’t exist now.
wake up babygirl corsicar dropped
Ford was also in talks to buy Alfa Romeo in the mid 80s as well
X-Type did nothing wrong.
You gotta give Ford credit these brands had issues ,yes the cars were blandish , but the internals of these vehicles were upgraded ,modernize and streamlined . Honestly without Ford most of them would have died in 2008 recession.
just got this on my recommendations
subscribed the moment I saw Loss
i love how i got a ford ad during thus video
The X-type not actually being a ford mondeo underneath doesn't particularly matter if it feels like a mondeo in person. Just the door handles alone on that car feel like they've been dug from the bargain bin bottom of the partsbin let alone ride quality, insulation and hte like
Chrysler owned Lamborghini? That wasn't on my bingo card.
bro these videos are so fucking good. i love your dry humor, its perfect.
The premier group may have been a disaster but it was arguably the best era for most manufacturers (in terms of how good the products were, not profits).
An alternate history where Ford owns BMW, Alpina, AND one where Alpina is separate from BMW is wild.