Honda Mower HRR216 Won't Pull Backwards Part 1
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- Опубліковано 25 вер 2018
- This video shows a repair to stop the Honda Self propel mowers that can't be pulled backwards. The axle locks up. There is more wrong with this mower but these simple steps may help you. Thanks It isn't over at the end.
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You've done a great job of setting up your garage Bruce, that's a nice working environment. I'm looking forward to part two...
Thanks Andy Me too.
Great job of setting up the garage ? So he can work on his knees on concrete ? Get a "work bench" ??
Thanks for the video Bruce!!! I'm back in business. It's guys like you who make the internet a powerful and tremendous resource for diy folks.
That is very cool. Thanks
Good job getting it back together Bruce. I usually end up with extra parts lol.
I put everything in a tray. That helps.
Looks like you enjoyed working on this one. That exciting fascination is infectious, Bruce. :)
Thanks. It gets a new transmission next video.
@@BrucesShop Looks like an expensive fix on this one. For a minute there I thought you were going to open the gearbox.
999thenewman it is
Very interesting! I'm looking forward to the outcome on this one. I love these older mowers.
Friday is the next one I think.
@@BrucesShop You sure it wasn't the drive cable adjustment, and did it ever roll backwards?
nice video all around bruce , look forward for part 2.
Thanks John. I wasn't technically perfect but we must move on.
I have also had this no-reverse problem. Luckily, taking sand paper to the axle did the trick for me. I'm looking forward to part 2. Bruce I am very sorry for your loss. Tom
Thanks Tom
Oh oh I heard it through the belt drive ;-) Lot of work waiting for part two.
lol i just saw that part great comment
;-)
excellent video. it shows that trouble shooting, repairs, and first assessments of a problem don't always go as planned. Now the test of a real mechanic is to recover and take a different approach to fix the problem.
Exactly. It doesn't always go as planned and the solution looks easy looking back at the problem. Thanks for the informed comment. .
You'll get it! Cheers my Friend! Sean~
Thanks I am back!!!
Great job. I'm with the others on the ratcheting sound. It's supposed to click moving forward. It now does it in reverse - I'd start there. I had a John Deere mower that did the same thing. I got rid of it. I wish I had seen your video before then! LOL. Good luck with it and I look forward to the next installment.
Right. It needs a new transmission and the next video shows it.
Another great BP vid! Thanks!
Thank you Mr. Spider
Looking forward to part 2 Mon Ami ~!~!
Thanks Boo. You know.
great job video bruce hope your doing well sir be safe
All is good Thanks EB.
I'm glad to see this video because my good friend and neighbor has this same mower I believe. I know you've had a very rough time the past few weeks and hope all will be well soon. Sorry to comment so late, my family and I just returned home from our annual fall camping trip. Looking forward to part 2. Thanks Bruce, and God Bless.
I had one of these mowers in this year, same issue. They actually still do make models comparable to that one as far as metal parts and such.
Anyway, that sticky reverse issue, is a widespread known issue on honda mowers from around this time period. A ton of them come down with it, yet honda has never made an official recall for this mistake of theirs or admitted it, so many people who own one have no clue. The problem is the bushings were made too narrow so when they sit in, on that axle, over time they lock up. Also the bushings are plastic, they should have gone with a better quality especially for a bushing.
They did make a kit to correct this issue with bushings that don't hug on their as tight also plastic, but you have to pay for it. The other method of repairing this problem is to really sand down both ends of the axle really well so the bushings don't sieze up on their anymore and lube it up good. However I have heard of people fixing this issue and it came back on them after a year or so.
Theirs a video out their, its really good actually, that deals specifically with that issue. Your video is also very helpful as a general repair video. The one I had was a 2001, HRZ216 with the front caster wheels, same issue.
My general impression of the Quality of these mowers is their okay, not really that much better than some other good brands I've had come in. The thing that brings my personal impression of them down further is this engineering flaw built into them, that honda will not admit to and recall, considering the price for one and how many they have sold. That issue has since been resolved on newer models selling now. If you have an older one and it wont roll back, thats the issue.
It was the first and only honda I had an after I fixed it and went to sell it, I must have had 30 calls for it and it was the highest I ever sold a mower for, so people really, really like Honda's!
They issued a TSB
I have an HRR216VXA. its has the "roto-stop" and NO Bushings, but bearings. I have the link to honda's online parts look up listed below. the axle holder is part number 42936-VL0-B00 and the bearing is the same as ones in the wheels 91056-VL0-B00. hope that helps
peparts.honda.com/powerequipment#/browse/lm/hrr/hrr216/HRR216K3-VXA
Even with the new parts per the tsb it can still do this. I’ve chased everything including replaced the transmission (for a NEW shaft) and the bushings / adjusters. The design is flawed. Grit gets in past the rear inner wheel gear area since there is no seal around the shaft in there. The only seal is on the under deck side.
What I’m testing now and so far is very successful is to drill out the adjuster and put needle bearings inside for the shaft to run on. I then epoxied seals on both sides of the adjuster to keep junk out of the bearings. So far this by far the smoothest and longest lasting “fix” I’ve done. The design is utterly stupid and unless you get one of the very high end or commercial models you’ll have the same issue. Almost all share the same parts.
It is amazing how much time it takes to fix some of these mowers when no one is telling you how to do it or what we are doing wrong. Something is reversed or backwards. Those trans lose oil over time, I have been successful with drilling a hole and plugging the plastic trans after filling with oil.
Yes It gets a new transmission (3 speed axle) on Friday
Very good video Bruce.
Thanks again Joe
An interesting one. I was wondering what was going to happen as you didn't really find anything really wrong or broken, although cleaning and greasing sometimes does wonders. I'll be tuning in for the next exciting episode of 'Honda Mower Man' !!!!
Thanks Grampie. How many grandkids do you have. I have 1 fantastic little guy.
How's she goin'? Nannie and I have 8 Grand kids, 5 boys and 3 girls and 1 great-grand son. They range in age from 20 to 4 for the grand kids and our great grand son is a week away from being 1. And I think they are all pretty fantastic too!!!
Grampie's Workshop That is wonderful
Well. It's 2024 just spent 140.00 on trannie wave washers. New wheel bolts...it's a expensive mower...works so nice now. Plus my friend and I hung out and got er done
nice
I was told I needed a new transmission, but wasn’t willing to spend the money. I took it back home, started it and pulled backward hard. Then the back wheels turned. I believe there might have been some debris jamming it. Used the mower and it worked well. Perhaps operator should first check for jamming.
Correct. Don't believe anything people tell you
Oh, oooo...We have us a head scratcher!!! I have confidence that u will get it sorted out.
I will on Friday haha
Beautiful underdeck!
Yes a well maintained mower.
I bought a similar mower w/a rough reverse on craigs list for $80, instead of disassembling I just kept spraying the axel bushings with PBlaster every time I used and gradually it loosened up overtime.
Yes. This is the one Honda design that should not have been
Good video as always bruce. The way the Honda's when you pull them backwards the transmission axle does not spin in reverse!!! I have been running and working on honda push mowers for years.
Right I know that now. I get the ratchet direction too. I know I made a few errors in this one.
Hi Bruce thanks for a great video. I have the same lawn mower and got to learn a lot about it from the video. I was wondering if you posted the 2nd video want to see what the problem was and what the fix was.
Thanks
Never mind Bruce I was able to find the video. I found what I was looking for in the 2nd video should be simple to fix the issue. Thanks for posting great videos.
Yes, absolutely
ua-cam.com/video/6Dv3LCWpK2c/v-deo.html
Nice clean mower. He'll get another 16 out of it if he keeps it that way! Hang in there with it.
Well there is a new transmission for it in the next video.
Crazy thing Bruce I have a similar problem with a Honda like this. I bought it off craiglist 3 years ago it's problem was where those plastic bushings are was all wore out so I took all the parts needed off a donor mower and after I put it together the drive didn't work and it worked fine before so after much tinkering it still didn't work so I put one in that I know was good and guess what it didn't work so I'm missing something I just don't know what it is ....so its still sitting there waiting for me to figure it out. I'm anxious to see part 2
Right. You get it. I have had some pretty tough comments. Along with a tough week.
ThanksDave
On my yardman 12av829c755 after mowing with it it loosened up and now it rolls backwards but is still stiff like its not lubricated up any or was and got thickened up inside and is stiff while pulling it backwards
Im glad its not really bad think it'll be a easy fix on mine hopefully
Best of luck
Really clean, well-cared for mower for being 16 y.o.
Yes it sure is in good shape.
I had this same problem with my HRR216VKA mower. I contacted the local Honda dealer in Florida who looked it up and told me there was a recall on the mower due to this same issue. I took it in and they did the repair and it worked fine, until last week when it started doing it all over again. I live in Boston now so going back isn't an issue. The factory fix is only temporary(about a year) and there must be a bigger design issue at hand here. I had a Craftsman mower that did the same thing so it has to be a self propelled mower issue common to many mfg's.
I part 2 I replace the transmission. That is the ultimate fix.
The first guy should've known when he saw the keyway on the axle that grabs the wheel and the one-way bearing to know they should move in one direction but not the other hence the name one-way bearing . I will tell you if you have a Wornkey way and you use a lot of grease behind it mixed in with the spring good heavy axle grease can actually impair its movement believe it or not personal experience. Mine had no grease for years and then I greased it and it stuck. So when I was cutting grass I realize that I could not spend a lot more to go back the other way you know it would not move backwards on one wheel not both just one . That told me the keyway was not working properly. So I remove the wheel again knowing which way it was supposed to move free found that wheel cleaned out the keyway regreased with just a little bit of grease put it back in. Works good. If it happens again I will put in a new keyway . After 20 years the keyway had developed a groove and it . The groove came from no grease and the axle using the keyway to turn the gear for that many years with no grease. Hope that helps
Thanks. Good thing the owner of the mower had the money to replace the works. Thanks for the informed comment. Bruce.
I did one years ago. You may have to tighten that cable adjustment. The spring up the top prevents too much tension
In the next video I change out the transmission which I call a 3 speed axle.
Open end wrench that fits over axle but just small enough to contact bushing, then gently tap wrench with hammer and that bushing will walk right out.
Thanks Larry
I have an HRR216 but mowing in the yard with this POS is a PITA. Which is why I put it in storage and bought a Snapper Ninja Mulcher. It will blow the Honda into the weeds and I can pull it backwards when ever I need to
I have learned those transmissions were a weak spot.
just fixed one with the same problem except after freeing the axles it worked ok. had to pound on the axles side to side to get it free.
Good idea. May have saved us some $
I have the Honda shop manual for the HRX217HYA, a very similar machine. It says that each pinion gear will have a small dot punched into one side. That dot should face inside on the left wheel, and outside on the right.
Very cool Thanks
That's correct. There's only one Honda part number for both sides; no right or left.
Mine a HRX2172 HMA was the clutch return spring was not going all the way to full return which releases the clutch into neutral
Ouch
Somethung similar but different...I havent been able to find a video on this. I have a 2 stage snowblower that when not running, I can pull it backwards easily. If I try to push it forward it feels like something binds up and the wheels wont turn. Yet when running, the transmission will move the machine forward and back no issues.
Wow. This little guys can be tough. Sorry i am not much help as I am not there.
I took one apart and the worm gear stripped out the bevel gear in the transmission.
good parts, but awkward and too complicated to work on for a lawnmower drive system.
You are right. The old one like my JD 8-32 are cast iron.
If it rolled forward but not backward, how could it have been bushings? Anyway, cleaning got it. So, what was the problem?
I think the ratchets undernieth get catchy
@@BrucesShop Thanks! I've noticed on some new machines, on one the back wheels turn with some resistance (rolling backward) and on another mower. they turn easily?
One of the funniest video. I think the subject is wrong. Instead it should be how you can turn a self propel mower to push mower😅
Thanks
you will fig it out bruce ... and if not there is always donnyboy lol .. †
Thanks Reds
have a 6 pack and think about it,lol. Honda mowers do have transmission issues,seen plenty for sale that are push mowers now
I know. I really tried to convince the owner to move on. There is a new transmission in this one on Friday
The belt guard on this Honda with the bent crank shaft was broken and cracked . The tin appears to be brittle and cheap. I have never in my life worked with such garbage. Who has ever had this happen? This one is about the same age as the one you worked on. I am not pleased with what I have found. Also some of the screws holding the shattered guard on stripped out in their holes. They might be better because they are metal but seems to me brittle metal could be dangerous if the blade threw out the broken parts. Many had sharp angles.
The self propel Honda's are not my favourite.
Bruce which grease did you use for the nylon bushings?
I used a very goo synthetic wheel bearing grease. It is a slow rpm shaft so i thought that would be good.
Bruce Pender Thanks Bruce
You have to make sure the flat part of the inside on the drive gear is towards the back. The will fit on either side.
Right. On the next video we get a new transmission. (3 speed axle)
Is there a part 2 to this video? What was the issue? Thanks.
Here we go
ua-cam.com/video/6Dv3LCWpK2c/v-deo.html
What did you use to lube the ends of the driveshaft?
A very good GM synthetic grease.
I have a Honda HRR216TDA,it has a one piece drive pulley and blade holder.I cant figure out how to remove it.any ideas?mike d.
Does it have a blade clutch?? maybe something to think about.
I will look into it,thanks!
I heard it through the grape vine.
Lol
I am happy you caught it. too fun.
pull the axle and clean the axle and the bushings that it rides in. Just a little labor and it's fixed
That worked on 1 problem but I needed a new transmission as it wouldn't move. Video on Friday.
Its not a seizure or lube issue if she rolls forward.....spraying rotables wont change anything. Old video I know just thinking out loud
Right It was the plastic bushings needing lube
There is a punch mark on the gear it goes o n the outside on both sides.
Thanks I thinl I found that out the hard way. at 19:38. Thanks for the info.
I have the same problem with a 6 year old honda! never buy another one!
This is a weak spot.
Is your mowing over for the year ?
No. Our autumn goes till the end of October.
I can agree with you a bit. Frustrating.
I can agree with you a bit. Frustrating.
I just worked on a Honda similar to that and had to put it back together out of utter frustration 🤪. Why in the hell can’t Honda develop a better an easier drive system than that??? I may just give the mower away if I can’t get the rusted shafts apart to clean em up it isn’t worth anything to me or to sell.
Well I wished i could help you??
I’m not ready to give up on the Honda not rolling backwards I just need to figure out how to remove the drive assembly. Enjoy your content always 😊
How do you know when the transmission is bad??
It won't move forward when the lever (right on the trans) is engaged
PA LAWN GUY< A&P MECHANIC > Bruce aviation oil is not recommended for the auto engines. It is not formulated the same and usually destroys the cam lobes. Auto lobes are typically softer and take at least one more critical element to protect the lobes that is not used in the aviation oil. I don't know about the Honda engines, but I would be leery about using it in that engine. Shell was warning at one time to not be using their aviation oil in nonaviation engines for this very reason.
My customer insists on it. I agree with you but it is not my call.
Bruce Pender Could be that the Honda camshaft is a hardened enough steel that it will not/ has not been a problem. The aviation oil for a certain engine manufacture requires an additive (by law) or to use Arrow Shell 20w50 which adds the additive and meets the Airworthy Directive (law) requirement. IF your customer uses this brand that would be his salvation. The aviation manufacture has upgraded the camshaft with roller hyd. lifters and the AD may not apply for these engines. I have been retired out of the industry for a few years now so the very latest may have some changes for these roller hyd. "liftered" engines.
The half moon metal part that went into the spring on the shaft was supposed to be flat side down.
Thanks
No it wasn't.
Samuel - No, it that woodruff key goes Curved Side Down. Flat Side Up..
It will not catch on the gear correctly with your idea..
The problem is the ratchet gear on the rear wheel are installed incorrectly. I had this problem before.
You are right but i turned it around (the new one that is LOL)
To view how to replace the belt on the mower in 4:45 minutes, search for "Honda Lawn Mower Drive Belt Replacement #22431-VL0-P01".
Those guys at repair clinic.com are lucky as they get to work on new elopement.
@@BrucesShop Yes, you're right. Looks like they might have a professional video editor, too.
That why I have just a push mower.
Me too. The self propel are so heavy it makes more work (in my mnd). But I am not 80 years old (yet)
The wheel gears on the axle are on the wrong side. They are directional. They should be marked R and L.
Right. I learned these things as i go as this was my first 3 speed Honda.
I agree. I think whoever messed with it first put wheels on the wrong side
We have had a tragic week around here to and i may have edited the video wrong. Thanks for your patience.
Is everything alright in the family Bruce. My prayers are with you.
The pawn shops around here are loaded with those "disposable" Honda mowers. Never find any Snappers at all.
I pawn shops here just loan money. (in my opinion) they aren't very good.
I keep my Snapper going..best drive system ever designed for a mower. Had to add another engine but worth it. I own one of these Honda mowers and have to deal with the backup problem all the time.
16 year old Honda mower in this video. Is that your idea of disposable?
I heard it through the grape vine on the belt. 😀
I enjoyed that.
Not as much as your subscribers did. Nothing like channelling a little Marvin to brighten up one’s day. We also noticed that you didn’t use your lift but got down and funky with the Honda sitting on the “Jack Costanzo” bucket. The things you learn from Bruce...
Prickle Farmer Thanks my friend. I don't know how far to go, but Mrs. Bruce and I have had a tough couple of weeks. Thanks for your humour and your time. I will talk more in the future.
Bruce
Yes, the engine is great - starts everything with one pull but the tyranny sucks and pushing a 100# lead sled around the yard is no fun. My Snapper Ninja pulls me around the yard.
Right . Those Honda's are heavy
Ummm tight..
You should get a gopro...would be a cool way to see your repairs in first person view and would be easier perhaps for you to film some of the parts of the repair...
You are right. When someone offers help i check to see if they have made a video. You should give it a try. It is a humbling experience.
@@BrucesShop you kidding me man? I love your videos. You took it COMPLETELY the wrong way. I was suggesting it because I know you are open to ideas and I thought it would be something you would actually be interested in and it would make filming your videos a little easier for certain parts. If you don't like the idea fine I respect that but man relax chill out. I was not being a dick I was completely trying to give you advice to HELP you. I respect the videos that you and everyone makes about fixing/repairing small engines. I know how it can be a battle to fix these nevermind add to the fact that you have to do it while filming it....
@@BrucesShop I am the furthest thing from a critic of you. I learn a lot from you and to be honest you are my favorite UA-camr that does small engine as you don't beat around the bush. You are straight to the point.
Some others have stupid humor and I have to fast forward to actually learn anything...half of their video is nonsense and the other half is the repair....you are straight to the point and I respect that and that's why I am subscribed....be easy man be easy
macknumber9 You know I am in a bad place right now. We have had a family emergency (a family member passed away) and it has translated to my videos. Interesting eh!!!. I am sorry If I caused you any issues. I will be more careful in the future.
@@BrucesShop very sorry for your loss Bruce.
You fixed it. but you put the gear in ass backwards. Should klick moving forwards. not backwards.
good luck
I know now. Have patience. i have had a rough week. New Transmission on Friday.
The back drive wheels on this Honda appear to work just like my JX75 John Deere. It does make a difference how the pinion gears are placed on the axel. They must be flipped opposite of one another to operate correctly. The small half-moon piece a.k.a. - keyway, must also move freely (pushed up by the spring) to engage the drive action. Here is a great link with the complete explanation. ua-cam.com/video/a9Dz-sadfAU/v-deo.html
Right I did that. But it need a new transmission. Video on Friday. Thanks
@@BrucesShop Where's video? Friday came & went 2 years ago.
You can still buy a quality mower like that
Yes they are $900 here.
Got an hr215 that stalls when the blade is engaged
You need to remove the blade and clutch and clean the clutch. Here is one I did recently (an HRA214, same idea).
ua-cam.com/video/spSnJ-o6glc/v-deo.html
@@BrucesShop I did, even cleaned old grease and re packed the bearing and scuffed up the mating surface with 120grit paper.
Some wd40 will help for a while ( about 5bminutes). Then, no more rear pull. It is the shaft binding in the plastic bushings they use on the shaft. These create enough drag on the transmission to keep it in gear. Another problem I had is on the Honda is self propelled means I have to self propelled it. My Snapper will pull me up the hill and burn rubber in the process.
This mower will only pull backwards iIF the transmission bail is in the relaxed (off) position. I wire tie my bails to avoid the hassles of "safeties" and may have produced a false symptom. i picked it up curb shopping and was unfamiliar with the controls. Spent many hours troubleshooting a nonexistent problem. In my opinion, these mowers are an over engineered and overly complicated piece of (censored).
so someone rotated the tires and they were directional lol only honda has this much effort in a lawn mowers
You should turn of the gas and run it dry before you turn it on the side
I know. I did turn it off a time or two remembering I don't film every minute. Thanks. If I missed it i am sorry. We have had a few struggles around here.
I currently have this issue. I hated the Honda engineering team who build a flawed system. Plus they make it hard to clean when it occurs. My solution is looking for different name.
Best of luck.
I am frustrated with Honda engineering in the last few years. You are so right about things. Is it cost on their side?
Honda needs to do a recall my mower is less than a year old and is doing the same thing.
Right I am such a fan of Honda, and this one (in the video) is at least 10 years old, saying there is an issues here.
@@BrucesShop well this is my second one the first one never have this problem but this one do and for some reason the problem solved on iis own but like you said I'm fan of Honda too .
@@verdun8481 Right Thanks for the chat.
If my issue continues I’m putting some tannerite under mine one day fricken company with good engines but terrible engineering for everything else
I think you are right. I am working an a newer Honda Snowblower right now and I thing there are way to many goodies. (unneeded attachments)
Doesn't look new to me. Left front wheel tread is all but gone. Why not scrape off all the crap first?
Well no it is not new. This is a video made in 2018
No he forgot the tire guard, I do it all the time.
I do most everything twice.
Easier to replace the whole adjustment about 13 dollars each side
On some. This one need a new transmission as the lever was at the max. Thanks for he suggestion though. Here is the video on Part 2
ua-cam.com/video/6Dv3LCWpK2c/v-deo.html
The camera did not always capture what you were doing someone probably should have handheld it and moved it while you were working
OK
All you have to do is adjust the belt cable from the outside. The belt is too tight. You are doing all that work for nothing. My mower would pull back because the wheels were locked. i adjust the cable from the outside and loosened it a bit and problem solved. 2 minutes total time.
Thanks
I'd just buy a new one and call it a day...
Well it must be nice to have that kind of money. Good for you.
did you forget to reconnect the drive cable? if not might need adjusted,thanks for the video bruce
I got it. It is a transmission and I change it on the next video.
alright,thats good to hear,those transmissions can be a pain in the but sometimes,i like the metal gears on the wheels,on some self propelled mowers the wheel gears are plastic and they where out quicker
I noticed it use to click when you pushed it forward, but now it clicks backward, maybe that's the problem, I hate Honda mowers, the more you fix em the more they seem to need fixing....
Yes the next video I change out the transmission. (the 3 speed axle)
Robert Knighthawk -- The reason it clicks backward now, is because those gears were installed wrong side in.. He had to remove and flip them over to get it to click going forward, which is the correct way..
I found that in most cases, when the self-propel mechanism quits working, it's best to purchase a new self-propelled lawn mower. Because sometimes repairing the self-propel mechanism can cost as much as or more than a new self-propelled lawn mower.
Yes the owner insisted on fixing it.
The owner must have sentimental value in it. It happens.
Brian Miller He keeps his stuff.
He sounds like me. I get attached to my equipment. :)
Don't lose those keys. They are a bitch to make. Mi know because I have done it.
I will remember that.
I got a key at my local western auto store. He is also a Brigg's and Husqvarna dealer, too, so any place that carries small engine parts should have one for your honda electric start. The problem with the electric start is the battery and the solenoid. The solenoid likes to stick. You need to clean and lubricate it.
I have a newer honda that will go backwards when it wants to. Not impressed, my previous mower was a Toro and had very few problems in the 15yrs I owned it. Will probably sell the honda and by an EGO.
I understand.
I refuse to buy another Honda mower since they won't own this problem.
I have one that isn't self propel and I love it. There are 2 things about this 3 speed trans-rear end. One They should never have had the 3 gears (only need 1) and 2. the cost of repair is prohibitive. thanks Kevin
Same my issue started this mowing season I’ve had the mower maybe 3 years
All my Honda mowers have had this problem. Pieces of crap.
I can agree with you a bit. Frustrating.