Honda Mower Self propel finally fixed
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
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This mower's self propel doesn't work and also the wheels don't roll backwards either. The fix was very extensive.
This is definitely the Achilles heel for these mowers. I've had to rebuild mine 2 or 3 times in the last 5 years. Always the same issue with the spring loaded key seizing or the pinion gears wearing excessively (yours also looks well worn, so replace them if you also buy new rear wheels). One thing I would add is that the transmission isn't really sealed for life. A little Googling will help you find the capacity for it. It's normally just 10W30 engine oil. I changed the fluid in mine about a month ago for the first time with no adverse effects. You just need to have the mower upside down to fill it. Open it upside down as well and then use a pail to catch it as you turn the mower over so you can accurately measure how much came out. Compare that with the fluid spec amount you find online especially if it shows signs of leaking.
thank you for the information Darin Nederhoff.
HELPFUL VIDEO! Just replaced trans(new $105 from ebay) Alittle tricky to get snap rings free. Make sure small axle drive gears are turning in correct direction, if not tranny won't engage wheels to drive forward. My Honda mower is 25 yrs old and still runs like a raped ape..
thank you WFO holeshot for the tips.
had the same problem with mine which is just like your. mine jsut needed the cable to be adjsuted . logic would seem then one would pull the cable to get it tighter, but the honda was reverse and need the cable push forward. after i figured that out its been perfect .
Nice decution
What did you do to clean the axel. Do you use sand paper and sand it?
fine sand paper works, Along with steel wool
Yes! I have performed this procedure, and adjusted valve lash, and replaced all 4 wheels, on my Honda lawnmower that is now in its 22nd year of service. Absolutely worth the tedium, especially if you divide the hours of maintenance by the years of service. Also, I looked at new lawnmowers and not only were they very expensive, most of their parts are plastic now (mine is still an all metal version, even the transmission), and most have safety features that add unnecessary complexity to the design. I decided it was far preferable to perform heavy maintenance on mine instead of replacing it. I have only ever owned two lawn mowers in my adult life (the other was a Lawn Boy that lasted 9 years - I repalced it because I hated the two cycle engine - I could have fixed it but went to the Honda to have a four cycle upgrade in 1999). Great video - I needed it to see which direction to reinstall the drive gears, I forgot to take a picture as I disassembled them... Keep up the great work!
thank you Jay Tetzloff
Excellent repair video! Being retired, I wound not hesitate to put in 8 hours on a complicated repair. Of course if was a customer's machine I would not justify the labor charges. For a spring removal tool I use a wire coat hanger that i reshape for added strength and comfort.
thank you cherokeefiddler
A lot of ideas and that ' 2:49 s fine, for the easy or for the tools needed for sc ess to som parts
Thank you for making this video. To answer your question yes I would spend eight hours to fix my mower because to replace it with a new mower would cost me over $500. I have a Honda push mower which no longer engages the self propel. Simply adjusting the cable did not do the trick so I will be taking it apart checking everything and cleaning it like you showed in the video. I have had mine five or six years and definitely hope to get another five or so out of it. Do you have a favorite reliable source for parts online?
I would use ereplacementparts dot com, put the first part of the model number in the search field, like "hhr216" then look at the last numbers and match it up with comes on the screen, xvaa.. etc.
Hot tip for re-assembling these mowers: I've lost many of these bolts because they vibrated loose. Never use lube on the fasteners, use blue Locktite. The locktite will prevent loss of the fasteners and prevent corrosion also.
And for the do-it-yourselfers, never disassemble the mower in the grass. That's a guaranteed way to lose fasteners.
thanks
I’ve been doing this work for 53 years. I still make mistakes. No one is perfect. Great job. What a pain in the butt.
thank you Larry Jones
Fabulous video showing the clear detail of all the washers and the order that they go on. Thank you.
thanks !
If it was my mower sure cuz I know I'll have it for a few more years. Plus it saves me a lot of money buying a new one. Now if it was to fix it up and sell it Heck no. But my own personal mower yeah for sure cuz you reek the benefits when you're done. Especially a Honda that'll last another 10 years.😊
I can agree with that, thank you Andrew
To attach or remove springs I use a T shaped tool with a hook at the end. It came with a trampoline I bought for my kid.
Nice. I'll have to see of I can find something like that.
@@INSIDEHOUSEGARAGE I needed one for my mower, and I actually found it at the auto parts store. It’s used for drum brake springs.
The good thing is that it is rebuildable to functioning like it’s designed to do and wasn’t that expensive doing it..and any time you can keep things out of the landfill, that’s worth a little bit of time in my eyes. Far too many things are ‘throw-away’ and for no good reason other than greed. Have a good one y’all!
thank you Steve Turk.
Good afternoon I just fixed two lawn mowers and one had a broken selfpropel system and a broken carburetor unfortunately. I used this video to help me fix the mowers selfpropel. Thank you great video.
Nice and thank you or the comment, I appreciate it.
@@INSIDEHOUSEGARAGE 😁👍
I notice this is a very common issue with self propelled mowers...and this is a great/helpful video. However, I think this looks more complicated than a typical homeowner can handle. I suspect that if it takes 8 hours for you - with your expertise - it would take way longer for me (even if I remember to put it back the way it was...video or not). I learned a lot from your videos. Can you please do a video on (seasonal?) preventative maintenance for a self propelled mower especially to ensure that the self-propelled feature continues to work? The whole world will thank you 🙂
you make a good point, however if your labor is cheap, then spend the time. IF on the other hand, you make 30-100 an hour at your job, pay someone else to fix it.
Yes, I've spent more time than practicable on repairs for several reasons. One reason is that quitting before fixing means I've wasted the time spent thus far. Also. and maybe more important, is the satisfaction of success. Also the lesson learned will be of future benefit. I use a wire coat hanger to remove and replace springs. It' provides good leverage and is easy to maneuver. Early on I found springs were hard to grip and stretch with pliers, Chanelllocks, etc. I didn't have the benefit of a YT resource to simplify analysis and techniques.
oh that's a good idea about the hanger. I'll have to try that out.
If u learned ANYTHING the time was well worth it. Do u have any videos dissecting one of these plastic transmissions? I would dig seeing it! Thanks!😎😎✌
thanks, and no I don't have a "dedicated" video on the topic, but it'd be a good idea for one
I bought a HRR216K5 with smart drive, I believe the transmission worn out, I tested it by engaging the lever, then rotate the engine, the input pulley of the transmission always rotates, the wheel want to move but once I try to force the wheel from moving, the output shaft wont turn, did some research, people mentioned the worn out brass cone, but have no idea how to fix it other than getting a new transmission.
sorry to hear that
I have fixed at least 8 of these Honda mowers with the exact same problem. It’s a design flaw, and even the factory recommended recall parts won’t fix them all properly. You have to remove the HOC plate bearing, shine up the drive shaft to a mirror finish and use graphite or synthetic lube (in some cases no lube because the bearing tolerances are too tight) and try to get a few more years out of them. Even the factory recall replacement HOC bearing is too tight in many cases, Honda really screwed up on this one. Just google “Honda mower won’t pull backwards” and you’ll see what a major screwup these mowers are. Not all, but the majority.
that was very good information I appreciate you sharing that.
Holy shit, I was thinking about fixing my mower myself until I saw this 1000 piece puzzle.
yes this job was not fun at all.
Thank you for taking the time to make this video my mom has a similar lawnmower with transmission problems and this gives me a peek at what I'm into. Your question about the time spent personally I would because I have the time to put into it I'm 60 and kind of retired and mom is 80 and doesn't want to buy another lawnmower but I do understand what you mean about time if you have a shop to make a living or extra money or even a young family ware the time could be better spent.
Thank you for your video's Ted
thank you Just Ted, good luck on your mom's mower
I would spend the time, but only because I do small engine repair as a hobby and not to make money from. I sell stuff I rebuild mostly for cost, just because I enjoy doing it. Thanks for your videos, I really enjoy them.
thank you Jeff Snodgrass.
Yes done it several times !! These Honda mowers are very very expensive new the reason being they are a dam good mower I bet that mower you have there will last another 10 years
the engine on the other hand will probably last another 30 years I have a Honda Izy thats over 30 years old and still going strong its now on its third deck Nice up load thankyou !!
no problem and thank you Allan Hughes.
Like most things, once you've done a repair for the first time subsequent repairs are much quicker and easier to do. Seeing the amount of rust it has I suspect the previous owner(s) left it outside. My 30 year old Honda mower has far less rust than that one and it has never required any repair. They are good durable mowers if looked after properly which includes regular preventative maintenance. That said, excellent explanation on how to do the repair. 👌
I think you're right about that and thanks
I take a length of paracord. Loop it around the spring. Then I can easily pull it with both hands. Won’t slip off like pliers either.
I have some paracord so I'm definitely going to try it out. Thank you Rob Stone.
I’ll tell all you this , I have two close to the same models. And they both are in need of this exact procedure! It’s going to be a long couple days guys!!! But I do like both….. great video one of the very best Thanks you Sr.
no problem and thank you!
This for sure a week-end Job. 8 hours seems long, but you took your time and was learning in the process. It doesn't seem anyone was doing yearly maintenance to the mower. But in the end, don't you feel proud on what you just achieved? This one is an older Honda. Yes, the new ones cost 1000.00 but my understanding, Honda is going all in on battery powered mowers starting in 2024.
yes you are correct 8 hours is a long time
I know this video is 3 months old, but was at home depot this week and noticed that the Honda mowers are close to $500.00 !! It would be worth it to repair your mower !!
you are absolutely right about that.
If they are $500, that is the cheaper model....
I worked 10 hours today on mine...replaced the blades, belt, back tires, oil, air filter, and polished the axle. It wasn't allowing the mower to freely be pulled backwards. It's about 8 years old, but like new again! Only $40 in parts. Reasons: 1) save $, 2) like the challenge 3) can't see it filling up the landfill and junking up the planet, when it just takes some elbow grease.
I wish more people were like you
All it takes is some backward parts to increase your anxiety. :)
you're absolutely right about that.
You can also slide a small rope on the hook if the spring, double it and pull the rope. I found this to be a great way to remove springs.
what kind of rope do you use?
@@INSIDEHOUSEGARAGE I like to use a small diameter parachute cord.
@@littledavieb that's a good idea. thanks David B
@@INSIDEHOUSEGARAGE you’re welcome. I really enjoy the videos you put out. Keep up the good work!
@@littledavieb I will.
I use purple power and pressure wash my mower after every use. No issues at all. Take care of your equipment. It'll last
you got that right.
Junk 💩/ since Honda give n to the government/ I pass & bye MTD mower
Be aware that metal gears with the key on the shaft are not interchangable. Gears are 'left and right'. So if you put left gear on the right side, mower will just not have self-propel anymore :)
This video was a lifesaver thanks man, I looked for this video for 3 hours again thanks.
Glad it helped
If I had to use a self propel mower as a push mower, I would first remove parts of the transmission to reduce the amount of drag on the wheels
you are absolutely correct.
Yes, we all know this, thanks...
The way I determine if it's worth my time is how much do the parts cost. I never include my time when working on anything. I'm retired and I like working on different things and helping friends family and neighbors.
I really love watching you work on the drive system. I haven't had the need to work on one yet.
Well said! Thank you David Frank.
I have been having issue with wheels locking when trying to pull mower backwards. I have the HRX217hxa. I removed the pinion gear, key and spring, cleaned. I replaced all three parts and put the gear on so that it now rolls backwards properly, like new. This is pure logic as to which way the gear should be on. I notice that your gear position is just as mine is. However, now the mower will not engage the self propel, it tries but there is no pull. If I reverse the gear, put on backwards, the transmission grabs but now cannot roll backwards. This is blowing my mind. I would love your view on this. Thanks
sure, the ratcheting sound should be present when you push the mower forward. If it makes the clicking noise when pulling it backwards, it's because you have the gears facing backwards. either the bushing in the adjusters rusted to the shaft, or your transmission is locked up.
I've often spent to much time fixing an old mower because I enjoy the thrill of victory! Besides, I'm a cheap skate.
me too.
Thanks a lot for this information I have a 215 Masters that is dragging real hard going backwards and even putting strain on the transmission so it was very considerate of you to lift this video for all the rest of us. Thanks again
Glad to help
Thanks for the video - and as for the time cost - I would and am in the process of spending the time fixing mine - I think we throw too many things away before their time - who cares if a mower is 20 years old, as long as it can be made to work a while longer - why not - have you seen the junk they are making now?? AND the price just about doubled this year! I'm in for the old dependable stuff, even if it does suck up a perfectly good saturday - that's what podcasts are made for :p
well said!
Just as I said before,80 PSI is good for that engine because it has a decompression mechanism on the camshaft,my dads needs rebuilding because while it was 65 PSI when it was brand new it tests at about 43 PSI now, it's an 18 year old Honda GSV190 engine now.
8 hours of labour to fix that lawnmower is only worth it if it's either a commercial lawnmower or a domestic one which you're fixing up for yourself !
very well said Russell Booth
The value of the hours you put into fixing something varies. If the time spent causes you to lose the opportunity to put those same hours into a paying job then no it’s not worth it. But if you are between paying jobs or you have down time that you can’t bill to someone then yes, it’s absolutely worth putting those spare hours into something like this.
@@johnfisher747 you are absolutely right about that
Those adjuster arms where they ride on the axle were made too short and so the bushings wear out easily and seize. To solve the issue add a grease nipple into the adjuster arm body, and make sure the shaft seal is always in good condition plus carve a groove into the bushing for better grease dispersion. I've done so many other modifications to these lawn mowers to make them more reliable but the body design and driveline is just crap. They can't touch the original HR 21 and 21-5 from the late 70s-early 80s, those are the best mowers Honda ever made.
thank you RideCamVids.
I’ve got a Toro that is now 21 years old. It has grease fittings on rear wheels , runs and pulls fine. They don’t make them like that any longer I’m afraid..
you are absolutely right about that.
I am glad you like your Toro... I have never seen a Toro that cuts grass very well... They seem to just run over the top of it and leave it all smashed down and not cut evenly...
I think it was worth it to repair the mower !! These mowers, like I mentioned in the last post are close to $500 dollars!! I remember buying a new mtd mower that had a similar deck and everything, but was a push mower for around $95 dollars!! ( it was on sale from $125 dollars! ) it lasted for almost 20 years! Anyway, thanks for the great video!
wow, you really take good care of your stuff!
@@INSIDEHOUSEGARAGE Thanks, I couldn't afford a new mower, so, like you, I would fix up one that a neighbor or someone would leave by the curb ! I did, however buy the mid mower brand new! Only mowers that don't hold up are snapper brand, they're heavy and engines don't hold up !
thank you B. Powell
They wanted 100 for belt replacement im I to it for about 3 hours so far great video dude
thank you D M
Nice tip regarding the magnet and keeping the parts in order.
thank you A Patterson
You spent 8hrs on this but also did a lot more to the mower then just fix the issue. Probably didn't need to do anymore than free up the adjusters. Did the other things really need to be done? It's always tough to know that answer. This is where we rely on the experience that is gained from working on something for 8hrs and learning. Excellent video!! Thanks for sharing.
possibly, however I felt as though it needed to be done and the experience was rather nice, Thanks I appreciate your comment.
Well worth fixing.. new value added.. for Honda I would fix it... The problem was lack of maintenance...
yes an extreme lack of maintenance but I hate to say it, if it wasn't for that, I wouldn't be working on it.
One of the best how-to videos I've seen for Honda Harmony II lawnmowers. Mine is an HRT216SDA purchased in May 1999. I need to replace the gear selector cable. Excellent shot composition, lighting, focus and voiceover quality. (Yes, I was a video producer before retiring) Thank you for the very helpful video!
thank you Hank Ebert.
Only if I fill I can get it fixed and if it's a commercial mower. But 9 times out of 10 the customer will say junk it.
you are very correct.
Excellent video! I would spend the time but I'm retired. My HSX 17 I bought new in 1986 is still going strong!
wow very nice!
Great video!! I’m having the same issue, just can’t find the gear selector leaver and cable, where did you buy them? Thnx
I went to Ereplacementparts dot com, just enter the "hrx216" part and then look up for the rest of the numbers that show up.
No i would not, having said that you sorted the drive out and have a good working mower again, working/ replacing the drive can be a time consuming job .
Yes you are absolutely right
On the tensioner spring I use a motorcycle exhaust spring hook t shape. From Amazon for $6.29.
thank you, I'll have to get one
So if we take out the spring loaded key will the mower just be a push mower???
yes, it'll disable the self propel. While you're at it, you might as well take off the gear too.
Another great video. I have a similar Honda mower that I just restored so I can sell it. QUESTION: Does the compression tester you posted work on small two cycle engines as well?
yes it does, I use the same one for all my equipment, from 21 cc engines to truck engines.
Very good video and narration. Two lube fittings or the like on each mechanism for engaging/disengaging the propulsion would have saved 7-1/2 hrs (about 500$)labor
I wonder if i honda designed that portion of the mower?
I have to agree with you on that, certainly seems like it
Love it man!!!!!
Thank you Will
In the beginning you said that the mower wouldn't self propel, what was the actual fix for that issue? The trans seemed to work when you had it pulled out of the mower. Thank you.
sure thing, The drive axles were "Stuck" to the bushings. That means the self propel won't work, and the same goes for rolling it back. when pushing the mower forward, you should hear clicking, and that is the ratcheting mechanism that's bypassing the drive system. IF you free up the axles, it'll fix all the problems
If any mower that still works, yet needs issues corrected, repaired and you can do it your self, its better then a new mower that costs $600.00 or more like a Honda, you fix it. Cheap mowers that cost $169.00 don't waste your time.
yes I agree
Definitely wouldn’t spend 8 hours on this 1 speed model. If it was a variable speed maybe 😂.
make a good point
Well, very well, presented video...most valuable info thanks for taking the time to help others
Glad it was helpful!
I have a chance to buy honda HRX model little over 10 year with occasional transmission slip for 50 bucks. the starting and running has no problem. Worth the buy and fix self propel?
I think so.
I would definitely do that
Nice video. What is the clear spray lubricant you are using during disassembly to free stuff up? WD-40?
yes the clear is WD40, and the white is lithium grease.
I'm surprised that there's no way to service the transmission. Can't the cover be removed, it looks like there are bolts there. I know that the old three speed Toro Super Recyclers had the ability to remove the cover and repack with grease. It would be a simple for the manufacturer to make this possible.
so here's the deal, you can service it if you want on this one. However the cover is not only screwed to the other half but it's also sealed, to it. Breaking the seal and putting it back together is just a real pain.
I don't know how to do this, so I would most likely pass on the project. However, I can see that it would be a good learning experience. I just wouldn't want it to be another unfinished project in the house.
Apart from the transmission, what big problems could you run into trying to fix this?
it's understandable and the biggest one is breaking or loosing a Snap ring. The spring is also really tough to put back on.
Very interesting. And handy info who knows may come across one myself. And thanks to you I’ll have some idea about it. As for time spent on it. Just do a bit when I have spare time. Cheers. 👍🏼
I appreciate your time here!
The mechanic in me says fix everything! However, time is money. There's not a lot of equipment Id spend 8 hours on. There's also some thing to be said about fixing something others couldn't. I guess it's how it makes you feel
very true!
I have this exact same mower as this one that I inherited from my dad. On the one I have the engine works perfectly but the transmission has died. Just a push mower now.
sorry to hear that
Those screws on the bottom side of that transmission are removable or you can remove the bottom plate from the transmission and it doesn't have oil it has grease inside and it can be re lubricated. Why you said it was a sealed system I do not know since you could clearly see the screws in this video. I just watched two other videos on UA-cam showing you how to remove the bottom of it and what to look for.
honda has several transmission styles, ones with metal plates, plastic ones, 1 speed, multiple speeds and even better the hyrodstatic,. On this one you don't want to take the bottom off of it, and I'm not going to tell you why because I'm sure you already know why.. but when you do, you'll understand
Simple cable adjustment like you recommended and I have the wheels spinning again!
hey nice work!
With that tensioner spring on and off use a longer string for better leverage and pulling torque. Never ever any pliers! Using a string you can pull it into position.
thanks!
Yep im going to have spend the time on it...machine seems find when I tried it and the sellers home somehow broke on the way home and I spent good money for it ...I passed on buying the HRN. To save myself $300...since most of my j go with the tractor i ...is a downer since my next project has to get postpone now :(
Sorry to hear that
I don't know if i'd spend that long on a mower. Things are tight so I guess if I couldn't buy another mower I would have to Thank you for the video
I understand where you're coming from
There is a monumental difference between this and the Honda commercial mower. Hydrostatic transmission.
yes you are correct the hydrostatic transmissions are very good
Well thanks for video, but looks like I'll have to buy a new one 🙆♂️🤦🏻♂️
nah, it works just fine.
no I wouldn't unless I'm bored and broke. Nice video. keep it up. I'm going to use it as a push mower because I have 3' thistle plants to mow down at the cabin.. Then we'll see.
I will thank you!
What do you think about Honda stopping to make gas mowers from September 2023?
sucks but it makes sense
Fantastic video thanks for taking the time to demonstrate a nightmare repair.
Glad to help
You should do a face reveal that way we can see what you look like. I love watching your videos
some day and thanks I appreciate it.
I've seen some agricultural repair vids, and, in most cases, they just do heavy greasing on everything which moves once in a while.
that works for me too.
Those Honda mowers are great Mowers I like them usually they start on the first pull
yes they have been very good to me, that's why I like them.
Great repair job done mate. The videoing was really good too. Cheers 🇦🇺
Thank you Tyrone Clarke
Aww man been waiting for your videos ...amazing as always...😍
thank you Mohammed Nazeel
Being Honda is no longer going to make mowers, I wonder about future parts availability?
very good, as long as there are used one on the market.
Too complex for me but props for a great vid!
yes it was very complex and unfortunately it can put off a lot of people
Do you have a link for the cable and selector, I just picked up that exact same machine, thank you.
hold one let me take a look.
Ugh... my self propel gave out, it's a heavy mower to push! But that engine is silky smooth.
did you look under the deck and see if the belt came off the pulley?
I would consider it good training time and not too costly. It helps save Labor cost down the road.
agreed
Got one that has the same problem took off gears on both wheels push mower now mine is a 1998 still runs great and cuts great too .I may do mine now just to have something to do.thank you.
Right on thank you Ted Mangold.
One mans trash is another mans treasure. I'd probably put in the hours to get it working if the mower was cheap enough.
you and me both, thank you hycron1234
My Briggs and Stratton mower is over 20 years old, it still runs great
nice, what kind of maintenance do you do to yours?
Finally, an honest guy who doesn't make others feel inept by saying " cleaned it up and works good, No big deal"....
I appreciate that. Thanks
I have one just like this but the transmission won’t work I put the new belt and nothing the gear selector on the handlebar broke too anyone have any Idea where I could get the gear selector and what might be wrong?
not without looking at it directly
I have a honda mower that yhe vin number tag is gone , so I dont know what model it is , i need a new cable that engages the drive wheels since its rusted. can you tell me what is your model ? is exactly like mine.
unfortunately this mower is not mine and I returned it back to the customer a long time ago so I don't think I'll be able to find out what it is.
You couldn’t open snap ring around shaft and move it to the other side without moving the driveshaft assembly I’m a overhead crane fabricator electrician and do field service for are cranes in operation I do this exact same thing some times
ah, thank you for the tip, that's going to help out a lot.
WOW A GOOD VIDEO no bull shit Thanks Ed Loretto Ontario Canada
thank you Ed Edmund.
I appreciate this video as I got a free Honda mower with a sketchy transmission with the problems you described. I plan to do it as it seems like a very nice mower and I am cheap. I would just divide the time up into small chunks.
yes that works out too, and good luck with it
@@INSIDEHOUSEGARAGE It all came apart pretty easy. I noticed just needed some gentle cleaning of the bearing that the axle goes in. The cable that controls the speed, was the main problem, as once I got it apart, I noticed it was stuck between gears, and shifting it did nothing as it was seized up. Again thanks for this, it made it easy to follow.
I would try not to but like you I probably have out of curiosity. This is a great detailed video. The Honda self propelled system is overly complicated in my opinion.
I believe you are right How ever at they last. I've seen some toro and troy bilt from and rear drive systems that break internally
@@INSIDEHOUSEGARAGE I have had several Hondas with broken or frozen self propelled system. Yes the Troybilt and Toros break too but they are easier to remove IMO and I usually have a spare axle/ tranny around.