I know i mentioned them "the lesbian relative" was them. Im more just annoyed that they didnt get a single line or their girlfriend. Also they're only confirmed as nb on social media wade calls them his sister rather than sibling
@@ThinkBoxChris also: Lake, Ghibli and their Voice Actresses haven't been Credited. What a Miracle that apperently, this Movie haven't been banned in the Middle East and/or in other Countries because of Lake and Ghibli Relationship.
@omundodovini3774 i dont count that as miracle because they arent credited and are so androgynous that they could be called brother in pther languages to obfuscate the issue
@@MilkishBreadTrue, but Why are you mad that people’s opinions don’t align with yours?? People can have opinions of whatever they want, so just let them have it and not force it in others.
As a gay guy myself, I agree with you completely, although since this movie is a story about the director and his life I don't see how he could've made this gay without it being weird or not feeling unnatural. Still a bummer though, I feel like this movie could've been great had it been gay.
@@yoboylarry Why worry what happens to you after you die, when you can live your life while still alive. Gay isn't something you can just pray away, baby we're born this way
Idk get a consultant haha? Like if hes not sure how to write a gay couple get someone to help do it, itd be like me asking someone to help write a m/w romance since i dont know those well. Ember is meant to be him and wade is his wife, so its already flipped, so i dont get why it couldnt be is all im saying you know? Glad you liked it though means a lot
It could've been great, yes, but unfortunately we could've never gotten that, since it would have done worse in the box office. You know how people still are nowadays
the immigrant family aspect was inspired from his life, but I doubt all of the movie was ? I could be wrong, but it seems doubtful that such a big production would have one single inspiration
I think this movie had a message, but LGBT etc wasn't it. And that is fine. I do believe we need more representation and I also am sick of it being slipped in as a lesbian couple in the background here, or a subtle flirt of a gay pairing over there. However, as a pansexual, I feel in the unique position to say that this movie hit all the right romantic notes and it didn't trouble me. I don't get angry to see hetreo movies, especially when I feel the real message here was the weight of family legacy and racism. Things I have felt coming from an upper middle class white family who shamed me for dating a black man from a lower class family. I can see how many people will feel the impact. Just like Turning Red wasn't made for me and likely not for you, it was made for someone else. One day a movie will be made for us. If they added another layer, it would have drawn away from that personal impact for the person this movie was made for. Now - I don't think it SHOULD be considered another layer of complexity, I think different relationship pairings should be normalized, but we aren't there yet. Who knows if we ever will be. This movie is beautiful and compelling. It made me want to go for it, take chances and not just fit a mold someone else made for me. That is a good thing to feel leaving the theater. Really, I think the change we want to see won't happen until the people who are in charge of decisions at these companies aren't cis, older, white men. Indie creations are a far better repesentation of the general public's opinion than the CEO of any animation company.
To be clear i never said the movie had an lgbt message, it doesn't need a message about it to be about it. Im aware the message is about legacy and family anxiety and all that. I say as much in the video. However i agree the movie was great i loved it, and im glad you got something out of it as well, its nice to see people getting what i got. I just don't have the ability to see myself fully in it, mostly because of my stuoid brain, but still that movies a solid 9 to me
I do see what you mean and you are completely right. Movies are all made for different people and me personally, I did see this movie and felt represented and not because I am heterosexual but because of the relationship, because I do feel in many ways like Waid and I try my best to help others and qhen I do see taht spark in someone like Amber, I try my best to show it and make them happy independently of their gender or how I love them romantically or not. I understand what the message of this video was and I understand where some people here are coming from, but I don't think it is right to shove this story off of what it is. Most people today look at something hoping to find lgbtq+ stories, gay couples or in this case since this movie did show this by the relationship between Amber and Waid, asexual couples and it is completely valid to want to see it and search for it, for understanding. But I think that calling this just a heterosexual couple or that it should have been something else diminishes the point and pointing out this libe, this difference between hetero and not isn't healthy or helpful because it only leads to generalization. I do understand and acknowledge these difference taht only some people can understand on how it feels to be of a different culture, religion or just different in who you are attracted to, but i also believe taht you are missing some of the point of the movie. I would have loved it regardless of who was the protagonist pair, but it's important to validate also people who aren't that. Lately lgbtq+ has been more present in media. You say it isn't or isn't enough, but it's really all over between younger people, TOH, Steven Universe, Hailey's on it, Infinity Train, Wendell and Wild, Kipo, Nimona, Luca...it's in a lot of movies and shows to a point where it has gained height and a hype taht leads some to perceive a certain type of love as more meaninful than another and this movie I believe, was meant to validate other people too. To say taht it's also okay if you aren't like the rest, like what now feels the more accepted and expected side of the spectrum. I myself for outsider factors feel less heard and not because of who I am attracted to, but just because I am who I am, Im not afraid to say I am a white heterosexual guy, but that doesn't make me who I am, those are just labels to me, labels people use to say what person I am instead of who and what i went for when seeing this movie I found, people who genually loved and cared for each other and so much more. I wouldn't have minded if they were a gay couple or a lesbian couple or any other, but the movie chose this one to express how completely different people from worlds that feel apart can get in touch, can change and help each other, but I'd also be lying if I wasn't saying I felt this, I felt understood. I fekt validated to and seen, by seeing someone that i am very alike on screen just like you. It's a tricky topic and discussion but I think it is important to remember that we are all valid and we all matter, like you said and I won't stay here talking about minorities or majorities because to me it boils down to a change in perspective by ourselves or others but me personally I felt validated seeing someone like Waid and Amber staying together and just exploring who they are with each other and how well they worked together like I wish to one day do with someone I love and care for. Before I loose the thread what I am trying to say is that all love is important, in its various ways but equally and I feel there has been a case of giving more hype toward one for example lesbian couples than gay or other couples and this included me and I appreciate this movie for doing what it did without asking a what if and showing the importance of acceptance and culture and diversity within thsi fictional landscape by accepting same gender couples and so much more. I'm happy we saw this couple on screen, regardless of their sexuality or gender and what not but seeing the one we have touched me and I understand you, how you don't feel the same while watching this like I can't have that while watching a same gender couple...there is acceptance, love and more but it's not the same as what you felt personally and that's a layer this movie has that made me feel heard because of it and I hope you find more of it and I have no doubt you will in the future. The landscape of animation and representation is only growing and so is diversity and awareness of it and its importance and I wouldn't be more happy for it
Not gonna lie, just saw this movie today, I would have felt so much more emotionally invested if it was gay lol. Really wish they’d have any representation that isn’t just “Side character on screen for a couple scenes”
i honestly agree that the last thing we need is another story abt straight ppl who can’t be together, but i do think i saw something about the creator writing this based on their experience as an asian immigrant coming to america and there being stigma abt race mixing or smth like that
Im starting to get really annoyed about that. People seem to be using it as a way to deflect my entire point like its a sheild or something. Not saying thats what you're specifically doing, but in general its come up alot and its frustrating because what am i gonna say "fuck his life experience i want what i want" No im not, but i think you can have that life experience idea and it not be a one to one thing, case and point ember is a woman and the director is a man, right there thats a degree of separation so i dont see the issue. Again not saying that your trying to bote back or sheild the movie from my point, i just dont see how its relavent all the time
@@ThinkBoxChris The thing is, it's not just a story about him, it's a story about his relationship with his wife. At least from my perspective, to rewrite something that I feel connects me specially with my Soul Mate and to reframe my relationship with her to represent a group that my relationship with her is not about, it'd feel like the ultimate type of unfaithfulness to her, that our identity with eachother, that she needs to be rewritten because our relationship is not representative enough. I realize this is fiction and not his real life story, but there is a point where this story means something to you and there's a point where the story doesn't, and where that is is different for everyone, I can only speak for myself that if I wrote a story dedicated to my relationship with my Soul Mate and ripped out our relationship dynamic entirely, I would feel I'm ripping out the heart of the story (my love for her), and at that point, it's no longer my story to tell. Of course it's okay you want what you want, but the director also has to tell the story that they want, as an audience we are going to have to come to the conclusion of whether we connect to it ourselves or not (and let me tell you, I actually did not with this one, I haven't even seen a movie for an entire week since this came out I connected to it so poorly), that's where we can come in to tell our own stories, not every story will connect with everybody, that's fine we all have to tell the stories that mean something to us, and for everybody, that's a different thing, that's what makes the industry so interesting.
@r-giireactions2235 i understand its about him and his wife im not saying its not, but he's already flipped the genders of the people the story is about, why not get fun with it is my point. I get not everyone is gonna connect with everything, but its still possible to try new things and experiment with dynamics. For example if i wrote a story and told my soul mate he was a woman for the story, itd still mean something to him even though its not pur exaact dynamic. I think his wife would have gotteb the same point if they did what im saying in the video
@@ThinkBoxChristhe genders being flipped in the story doesn’t change much. Just because Ember is a woman does not mean the director still couldn’t paste his experiences onto her. It is still a straight romance otherwise. Making the story gay takes away the personalisation of what he wanted to do with it, and it also takes away the message of the struggles he had with having an interracial relationship growing up. This movie is relevant since it’s STILL a problem in many families. Making it gay would’ve taken the focus away from his struggles and made the movie go into a whole new direction, which the director has no experience with and it reduces how personal the story is to HIM.
@justateapot3847 no it wouldn't of, it didnt have to veer off into homophobia or anything like that, it could have very easily stayed on point about the interracial dating and all that. It being gay would not have needed to complicate that at all. Also your argument doesnt make sense on the flipping part, its already different and hes placed himself as the woman how is that any different then if he'd just mad his wife a guy and stopped there? Hetero and homo relationships are nearly identical on their interactions, not every couple is the same but the general overlap is strikingly similar when you get down to it. If they'd just consulted someone nothing would have needed to change story wise is my point
I’m just gonna say it: I think elemental is good as it is now. I don’t think it “needs” to be gay or meet these quotas like it’s a required thing. All Pixar wanted to do is tell a good story and that’s what they do. Plus honestly whenever there is a lgbtq show or movie it’s ususally the fandoms that turn me off. My main problem with the owl house is that it has one of the most snarky, gatekeeping, passive agressive fandoms I have ever seen (Btw yes I am bisexual so I have a say in this discussion)
I stopped watching the owl house because it just got boring, regardless of how good the ships are. As for this movie, good on you im glad you love it as is i do too, i can still wish it was able to hit me a little harder. I said should not needed in the title its not a requirement its more a request if that makes sense
It doesn't really NEED to be gay considering this was based on the creator's life and what they went through... Gay isn't the only representation that's needed...
I never said it needed to be i said ot should have been. Secondly 9/10 people arent gonna look that up so while its touching if you dont know that it just seems like an immigrant dating a local story. To counter the other point its about beings made of different elements not races of people, so that aslect isnt applicable. While racisim is still apart of the movie the actual race is obvuscated in service or the setting. If it was about people youd have a point. Im not erasing anything and im not saying its not valid im just saying both can coexist and the fact they didnt is a miss oppertunity
tbh even with losing out the international market and boycotting I'm pretty sure the movie would've made way more money if they made it LGBTQ+ from people actually being interested in seeing the movie instead of thinking it would be generic as fuck.
This is a complicated thing. On one hand, yeah it wouldn't look as generic and catch the attention if people. On the other hand, this would be the definitive test of how accepted this things are in society, because who knows if parents will bring their childs or if some adults will feel confortable watching it.
@@diegocaceres3475yeah that’s what I’m thinking it’s prob like one of those things where it’s a children movie so they didn’t want to put something that usually parents like to tell children in case it is their first exposure. When you think like this you understand why they didn’t do it, after all this isn’t for adults
@diegocaceres3475 if grown adults are uncomfortable seeing two beings made of different elements kiss or hold hands because they use the same pronouns then i have questions for them. Hell i have questions if its two people they find uncomfortable doing it. As for kids, i get protecting them but from what, love acceptance, a different point of view? Idk i just wish i had a movie like this with a gay couple as a kid
@arjunbaweja7755 at some point you gotta just tell them about it though. Im around toddlers all the time and ive never had to explain my relationship to them and if they ask i just tell them its like their parents and move along. Im aware the movie isnt souly for adults but they know their audience and they know how we are were nkt asking for a lot just a movie about us you know?
Doesn't your argument work both ways? Nothing would change regardless of pairing. It makes 95% of the population cry just as much as it would make you if they were gay, so on and so forth. You gave reasons for "Could", not "Should" as the video title suggests. I guess the tipping point is that it came from the author's experiences, so changing the pairing would go counter to that. If he were gay and was made to write a straight pairing movie then you'd have a point but that isn't the case.
Im getting really tired of prople bringing up the author like its a smoking gun, hes ember in the flim hes already changed the dynamics. I get its about him and his wife and im happy about that, and i dont wanna take away from it, but people seem to forget he's already changed things so my take isnt that fare removed. Everyone loves these two and he made his stand in a woman why is me suggesting they just change one of them such a bad thing. Actually come to think about it this novie was gonna be a lot gayer but disneys ceo said no, a lot of pixar films have that problem actually. Regardless woth this video i was being selfish i really dont care about how the other 95% of people reacted this is my take on the movie and franky im tired of caring about everyone else as if i dont matter. I think it should have been gay and that's the long and short of it. Agree with me or not i just am so tired of people acting like the simple act of wanting it is wrong somehow.
@@ThinkBoxChris It's fine both ways, didn't imply yours was the wrong take. It's just as valid as any other. What I'm saying is that you argued equally for both sides. If this element (heh) doesn't matter either way then... it doesn't matter either way. This is why the word "Could" rather than "Should" in the title seems more appropriate. Btw my 95% made-up percentage was about straight people, not people who disagree with you. Related to your point of "If protag had the same sexuality as me it would hit me harder and I'd score it perfectly", again the argument goes both ways, so in theory for the majority straight people this film hits them harder. Now, if the CEO said no to that aspect of the film your stance has more power. Then again it's Disney, removing and/or diminishing black characters from posters in bespoke markets, not changing their pretend-pride flag in their Saudi twitter account, between other misdeeds of massive corps. Ethics are beyond them.
@Highlaw thats fair, sorry if i came off weird there it was super early in the morning and i was really tired. And to your main point, your right it technically doesnt matter, and im not angry or hurt its a straight couple i just missed that full on connection by like 2% you know. If the director is happy with it im happy for him, its just something that stuck in my head since the intital teaser trailer. I just wish we had more mainstream rep then wre given these days. Again im sorry if i seemed snippy todays just been really long
How does them being different elements contribute to it being a flop? And take out money for a minute just pretend for a second money isnt a factor. What would making them gsy do to the story?
I guess i misunderstood. Its a short comment so forgive my confusion its still early whete i am. I suppose you meant that them being different elements is analogous to them being gay? If not please elaborate
I respect your opinion, but I don't agree. This movie being gay would not have made it better honestly, it could have been gay, but that wouldn't have made it better. And honestly, when I hear a movie or comic or show or whatever, whose prime focus is about representation, I just assume it's bad because typically those movies focus on representation and advertisements rather than making an actually good story. There are good stories with representation, don't get me wrong, but it's just so common to see media focus so much on representation that they completely forget about making the story entertaining. Invincible I would say is a good comic and show with representation. Stuff that is bad with representation are High Guardian Spice, Velma, Primos, Lightyear, and I am not Starfire; and I think we can all agree that those 3 shows and 1 movie and comic are really bad in general. Those are my thoughts, I am asexual, but am not part of the LGBT community because I just don't really care about representation, doing marches, or making it my personality. I don't really care about seeing asexual representation in films, if I see a crazy guy or jerk that is hard to love but harder to hate, I just go "Oh my God, he's me!" Or a gamer or nerd, "That's me!" I am a gamer, the most oppressed group of all, and the only label I will accept being called.
Thats the thing though im not making it about representation im just saying the story about a first gen immigrant and a local person dating would have been nice if it was. The story doesn't have to change to reflect that small tweak. And lightyear wasnt about representation it had one character who was a lesbian and if you miss the conversation talking about it its not really there.
@Gaminboi2864 understandable im just at the point where i wanna start asking for more and not feel bad for it. Not saying your doing that, just that its where im at
I'm sorry to tell you this, but purposely wanting to change a key part of the story just so that we get some representation feels so wrong, considering this movie is based on the director's real love story. Also being mad at the movie just because it is not gay doesn't feel right with me, there are many gay films out there, this one just doesn't happen to be one of them. Being dissapointed at the straight director just because he wanted to write straight characters, the ones that are supposed to be him and his wife, is just not right.
Who said i was angry at the movie? Im angry at not being seen by the world and having to pretend to see myself in things not the movie or director. And its not a key aspect of the story, its her gender not the plot not the meaning it has to him or his wife its literally a cosmetic and vocal change at the end of the day. I really don't see an issue with that. He made a movie with him and his wife in mind, people do it every day. First off i didnt know that while writing this but even if i did who cares? People pull from life experiences all the time and changing an unintrosive detail like this doesnt matter at the end of the day.
@gerardol3449 short answer, because we have enough heterosexual cis gendered people as the main characters and frankly changing it to not be the case is good. Doingbthe reverse is bad, thats as simple as i can make it
@@ThinkBoxChrisCan I get mad at the director for not making the characters have a distinct cuban nationality? Or for not making them have some sort of condition like autism? I am also tired of having very lacking, poorly written representation in media, but the reality is that there just so happen to be people that are not autistic, cuban or homosexual, and people have all the right to write about those characters, specially if the story itself is based around yourself and you want it to be as accurate as possible.
@gerardol3449 im well aware people dont have to pander to me nor do i expect them to, would i love it if there was a movie or show about a gay autistic polyamorous guy yes but im aware its not likly going to happen here soon. Im not stoming my feet and demanding people give me what i want im just saying we badse things on ourselves all the time, maybe id we can change one detail why cant we change others so the chore is the same but more people get to be seen? Maybe thats asking a bit much but idk it seems like a fair compromise to me
I'm honestly very intersted that you and many others were so invested in the romance. I honestly found it the weakest part of the movie, but i really loved the story of generational ideals and beliefs, and how you shouldnt feel shame in wanting your own life. That story hit hard for me, and i think i focused so much on that that i couldn't get too much into the romance. I do like this take on it being more gay, as you are right, not much qould have changed. Actually, I think the stick lighting scene with the mother would have had more impact if so with the "Well you cant because it wouldn’t work" and they then find a way.
Tbh I just glad to see a heterosexual animated film. Everyone is free to have their own opinions but I personally don't want to see this movie have a gay main couple
Snow white, Aladdin, beauty and the beast, Hercules, tangled, frozen 1 and 2, princess and the frog, should i keep going cause i can list more? Why would you not want it to be gay, you have hundreds of thousands of options we dont
@@ThinkBoxChris the timing and the problems thatre going on in the outside world is the first reason. People would just straight attack the movie just because it's gay. there's a crap ton of controversy involving that. I personally like the movie the way it is because how it connects with a lot of people especially a character like wade. Yeah there's a lot of straight movies but look at the remakes their crappy rushed products with no emotion their just shells. The movies are so bad we don't care that they have the same couple. Do I think there should be more movies involving gay people? Yes everyone has a right to be heard but this movie in my opinion doesn't need to have that
@superghostsonic6967 i get people eould attack it, but much like a dog nipping at you the more you bite back or tell them no the more they stop doing it. Flipping tables at tables being flipped is the right thing to do. And good on you for not seeing a need for it in this movie i dont need it either i want it thats the thing im trying to get at. No story needs to be gay or straight or bi or trans but people want them and the want is so deep it needs to be felt. This movie didnt need to be straight, but it was and while it bumbs me out a tiny bit thats really it. I just think more people should bite the bullet
@@ThinkBoxChris yeah I agree thst everyone deserves to have equal representation as long as its not forced and I feel a lot of communities do that. I think once they do that we'll have a good entertainment industry. Glad we were able to get on the right page and see and respect each others opinions
I respect your opinion but i'll have to disagree for 2 main reasons : First is that it's Peter sohn's letter for his parents that reflects his life as a first gen immigrant.. if disney made the main characters gay it would be forced representation and it would detache the director from writting a story based on his experiences. (and let's not forget about the marketing that didnt like that movie already and made such a bad impression about this movie). But also it was made to make it relatable to all immigrants (that is probably why you did not find it relatable most of the time). As a first gen immigrant from belarus parents that moved to france I have NEVER encountoured a movie that made me relate THIS MUCH to a movie. Usually when this type story is told it's an african/african american, latino or asian immigrant in america (or france in my case) and nothing else; and it is never generalised as much as in elemental. Most problems the movie tackled : I felt it too in a deep level , things I have experienced and still do to this day. Even the romantic plot I have felt it, even if i'm single : ''elements cannot mix" I have and probably others too have heard a variation of this , for me it was "don"t date black/muslims/middle eastern/american[...] people" for asians the stereotype is ''only marry asians'' (so what the director experienced) and so on... Which is something that I think is mostly told to daughters and less and lesser to the sons.. and due to that specificity + that it's tied to our real world , the argument of making the characters non-binary wouldnt work because then it's not much of an immigration story but a zootopia n2 about prejudice but instead of animals it's elements. The sexuality has nothing to do with it even if ''boys can"t date boys'' is similar to it, the immigrants, and I mean a VAST majority of immigrants finnally have their representation and not just a select few since they do not target a specific country and a specific nationality, it's almost all of them. You can be lgbtqa+ in your native country and towards an another nationality, but rascism and xenophobia only cares about your nationality, religion or skin color. If you can't see your self in the movie it is ok you don't need to ask to have more from the studio , each movie from pixar is slowly pin poining a different demografic and one day it will be pure lgbt rep' you just have to wait... (besides should all movies be relatable to be enjoyable? because I dont think a movie about live toys , ants or even living cars or planes are relatable as much as it's enjoyable :/) But i'm glad you still loved the movie regardless of its theme ! EDIT : typos EDIT n2 : id like to add that your video made me really uncomfortable and it felt xenophobic, there are planty of small creators that do really good lgbtq+ content with different themes with gay main charcter but less of them make good stories about immigration... So it just feels like you dont care about people and only about your self while spitting on immigrants.
Im sorry your take away was that i dont care about immigrants and their struggles, i try very hard to be mindful of other people and their lives, almost to the detrement of my own. my grandfathers on both sides of my family were immigrants to this country so while im not a first generation immigrant ive heard alot about the things they went through when i was little. However i think your short changing the movie to only be about the immigration aspect, ember is more than that and ive actually delt with her main conflict before. My dads a carpenter he started his own business and wanted me to take over one day and i really really did try my hardest to do it because it was his dream, but i couldnt its just not who i am and i felt very seen by that aslect of the film. I dont broadcast this stuff because its not a huge part of my life, if it is to you thats great and im glad you were able to get more out of it than i was. I only focused on the sexuality stuff and gender politics since its what im most comfortable in, with that being said i dont see how me saying it wouldnt change anything is wrong since ember would still be an immigrant and her struggle would still be about the family legacy. And i say that in all earnestness i wanna learn. And while yes plans toys cars and elements arent super relatable on their own, none of the films before this were a romance either, and thats the big difference to me.
@@ThinkBoxChris The movie is indeed much more then that and it tackles so many themes that it relates to everyone in a human level; but your video and the way you said it really pushed away the immigrant side of the story as if 'they have enaugh representation, so fuck them' as if a heterosexual immigrant has even less importance to you then a gay human being (and immigrants are usually already treated like animals). And this is what I get from what you say , perhaps it is totally not what you want to convey but with your arrogance and subtile xenophobia this vidéo and everything you have said in the comment sections (let it be this one or towards others) simply isn't acceptable even if you want the world to revolve arround your interrest , you simply just had to accept that not everything is for you , just like I accept that most movies have romantic plots even if romance repulses me to the point where I get angry and pissed when it is shown (let it be heterosexual or lgbtqa+) if the sexuality stuff is your jam then feel free to talk about it and why not promote unknown comics, cartoons,books, games,series or obscure movies with the main protagonists being gay or the story is lgbtqa+ friendly; ; I even got one for you : Nimona. Then youd tell what the author(book)/writters(movie) did right or wrong. No one is stopping you from doing that and that would be better then your highly offencive xenophobic subcomments.
@PGiChristine i never brought up the immigration thing in the movie besides explaining that she is, its not that i didnt care it just didnt fit into my point. I never once said fuck them in regards to immigrants it never entered my head through any of these discussions, i was saying we have a lot of father daughter stories from Disney thats all i can think of. I need to make this abbundently clear, i do not have any ill will or lack of concern for immigrants or any other minority, when i say i dont get why this had to be straight, thats it full stop nothing else factors into it but that simple question. I never even once implied i didnt care about the immigration aspect in fact i found that rather touching. Also im curious why you find me arrogant, im confident in what i say but i try not to be an ass about things and i often try to explanations on conversations with people. Again im sorry im just trying to learn
Ok so first of all, I'm gay myself! And Imma come out (pun intended) and say it: I'm a fan of Luca not having any romantic aspects in it! The director said that while people from the community are more than welcome to relate to the movie and its themes, he also confirmed that he had no intention of making the movie a romance at all, that's why I appreciate that neither Luca or Alberto or Giulia had any feelings for the other, they're all just friends... AND I LOVE IT!! 🥰 We need more platonic love representation in media! Now for Elemental, while I agree that making both Wade and Ember men would've made for a bigger message about acceptance, a good chance of giving gay men more representation for a change (instead of the lesbian couple in the background) and made a good chance for Ember to have some good Hades references! I'd say that it wasn't that necessary, like when you say, "what was the point on them being straight?!" I'd say, "What was the point on making them gay?!"... Idk, that's my opinion at least... Don't come at me! 😅😁
For luca im not saying its romantic their 12, im saying they like each other the way 12 year olds do and are figuring shit out. As for the movie itself its one big old day alagory by accident. Ik the guy didnt intent it to happen but it did like way harder then i think even i realized initially. As for elemental the question why does it need to ge gay is that it doesnt, but it would have been nice to have it. It being a hetero couple doesnt add or subtract anything other then personal aspects of things. But i would argue that making the devult none hetero for a minute in pop culture would be great for a change
@@ThinkBoxChris Didnt the team and director even in a not recorded presentation say that cause disney does blacklist fast. Ad itsthe oldest book to show extremely overt something but not name it to be censored. Probably here. And they are 12 figring that out. No way that was not romatic or not intentional there
@marocat4749 exsactly he was obligated to say it under contract and would have been black listed otherwise. And after his contract was up he was like "not my intention but go with it if you feel"
You gay people already get enough representation already don't need to keep trying to force your views into our beloved aspects of media and just go on with your day, if there end up being no more gay people in movies, shows, and games then fine don't freak out because it's not that deep
I know, but it was the closet i could use as an example for a they them couple as i could get. Its not exsactly 1 to 1 and i knew thar writing it, but they helped my argument
my brother in christ what kinda ass backwards logic is that 💀💀💀 "If theres no reason for them to be straight why not be gay" LMAOOOO There's no REASON for them to be anything. And their existence as a straight couple doesn't need to be justified with plot relevance to you or to anyone else. The creator is straight, this is his story, he made it in a way that he feels most connected to. Do you think he would give a shit that you don't feel as connected to it because it's straight? No because this isn't your story. If both of them being the same gender doesn't change anything, then by that logic you should be happy with the movie as it is. Because them being a straight couple doesn't change anything either.
First off, not catholic so... leave him be. Second I really dont care if he cares about my thoughts on it, odds are im never going to meet the man and i wasmt even thinking of the director when i made this, they honestly never popped in my head. And yeah theres no story reason for them to be straight, theres no reaso for them to be gay either. Im not saying theres this need for it what im saying is that if its not important change it around so we dont get the same thing every time. Also keep your line of thinking in whenever someone makes a gay couple that you dont click with. I love how no one hears the 9/10 i gave it, i loved this moved whole heartedly its just the main couples genders kept it from being perfect. I dont know how thats hard to get for some people. Not like im saying its trash for not having this element. In fsct im one of the more positive reviews ive seen
I think you are absolutely right. It's a movie that misses on a great opportunity for representation and storytelling. If they had the courage to go ahead, this movie would have had a huge impact on many people.
The thing is, pixar DOES want to create lgbtq stories, but disney wont allow them to do so, this is a letter that pixar employees wrote: “We at Pixar have personally witnessed beautiful stories, full of diverse characters, come back from Disney corporate reviews shaved down to crumbs of what they once were. Nearly every moment of overtly gay affection is cut at Disney’s behest … Even if creating LGBTQIA+ content was the answer to fixing the discriminatory legislation in the world, we are being barred from creating it.”
isnt disney supposed to be LGBTQ friendly or some shit? just goes to show these mass companies dont give 2 shits about that and just want you money. Honstly sad.
I just feel like the notes of having an non heterosexual were all in this movie to the stigma they both would feel being together and the way ember has to act when around her parents when asked about wade but still loved the movie ❤
Haven’t seen the video yet. And I haven’t seen Elemental yet. But I actually assumed it was gonna have some gay theme to it. I got SUCH gay vibes from Wade based on the trailers
@@ThinkBoxChris but it's a story about the director and HIS life, altering a story someone wants to tell because it lacks representation feels wrong, I'd rather not go about critiquing people's stories for not meeting our expectations.
@Maverick_K64 ember is a woman how is that not already tweaking the story? Its BASED on his life but its not a one to one thing, why does that change anything. And what else critiquing if not talking about wither or not something meets our expectations? I gave it a 9 out of 10 i still loved it this one asoect thoigh would have sent it over the top is all.
@@ThinkBoxChrisit doesn’t matter if Ember is a woman. It does not matter, since as far as I can tell, the story is not about sexism nor does her being a woman affect the core theme of it, which is an interracial relationship struggling due to family and cultural differences. You are missing the point so badly here. It being gay would’ve changed the entire THEME of the movie. The director changing the gender of the character he relates to doesn’t change anything as the romance is still heterosexual. Tweaking minor parts doesn’t change the themes elementals wanted to explore. LGBT issues was not apart of it.
@justateapot3847 i ask again how would it have changed it? The story is about a child dealing with family legacy and dating someone of a race their father doesnt approve of. In what way would that need to change if ember was a guy? Im legit asking because all your saying is that it will change it but not how. Also how did sexisim get brought into this? And like you said if ember being changed to a woman didnt affect it, why would her being a man or wade a woman affect it, its getero because the characters in it are a man and a woman thats it changing that wouldnt have really done anything as far as i can tell. You can have gay characters and it not be about homophobia
Im gonna say this in the nicest way i can in regards to homopbic bull shit people use to maintain the status qoue, fuck china's government. We need to stop cowing down to them for fear of a lack of profit, gay things make money all the time regardless of region
the couple in the film were supposed to be representing the director's and his wife's relationship and so there woudn't really be possible to have a leading lgbtq+ couple but it still would've been nice to see it happen
I mean, the director and his wife aren't water and fire right? So it wouldn't have been hard to just make Wade and Ember either both men or both women, especially since apparently Wade's supposed to represent the director's wife anyway and she's not a man.
What??? It was released then but not made then. And summer and early winter are the best times to release a movie. It truly has nothing to do with pride month
Making a bad movie LGBTQ+ wouldn't make it better, it would make people say the reason the film was bad was the diversity and make them even more afraid of doing something like that in the future
But the film isnt bad, its good actually and handles uts thenes well. People just didnt want to go see it because it'll be out on disney puls in a few weeks
I dont really feel a need for this movie to be gay. That kinda feels unessacary. Im a bisexual guy so i always feel represented in movies in one way or another. But this movie feels like it might've been bigged down if they. Did what Disney normally does when they do gay characters. But i understand to a certain degree about gay people not feeling represented. But also as a fair counterpoint, most of tbe world is full of straight people. Either way, im really glad you liked the movie still.
Go with that, I mean it is not like you’re the minority and pandering to your communities have only lost companies money because you don’t put your money where you mourn is. Have fin
You can say that though, that’s your opinion. It’s not like it’s prohibited or illegal to say that, if you feel that way about a movie just say that. Yes, people will get upset with your opinion, but people also get upset about the people who say they won’t watch a film if it’s gay.
@MrSophire i mean i do, i buy gay stuff i watch gay stuff i do gay stuff. Also straight people can buy and watch gay things too, we do it with straight stuff all the time. Why not put your money with us rather than against us? Maybe then corporations will actually care about us
Yep, seeing a corporation stop chickening out for once and actually give us representation as the main focus, front and centre stage would of given me a lot of joy
It's interesting too, because a lot of the time they'll back themselves into a really weird mid point, in which the homophobic right will be "persecuted" because of a 2 second gay scene, but LGBT people will be wishing the 2 second gay scene was...more then 2 seconds...Which just leaves nobody happy, so to me, it doesn't even make sense in business
It’s not that Pixar’s doesn’t want LGBT in their films, believe me they tried, it’s just that it really difficult with Disney being Disney and the few times they allowed it, it was done dirty.
I dont really think they needed to be gray, because truth be told, the story is’nt about that. It is clearly about racism, not gender. The conflict inntre movie is that her father doesnt want her to marry Someone of another element, so making them gray on top of that feels distracting. So if they went the gay route, they should drop the racism, and the movie would be very different
But then your chsnging the plot. My point is that because the movie is about racisim maling it gay shows that gay people have pther issues. It doesnt make it distracting when the whole point is about something else. I went out of my way to say that homophobia isnt our only problem in life so making it that way in media is really bad.
I gotta say, I've never been more in love with a Pixar story than I am with Elemental. I'd even put it alongside the golden year greats such as Toy Story 2, Monster's Inc, Finding Nemo, and the Incredibles. I'm not even joking, that's how much I loved this movie. It may surprise many to know that I'm a sucker for animated romance movies, which is my favorite kind of animated movie, and the romance in this film feels like something you'd never expect from Pixar. What the main Walt Disney studio is known for, I feel Pixar did way better in a heartbeat when it comes to the romance department. Despite how cliché the movie is as a rom-com, I feel that the story builds and sets it up so incredibly and realistically. Ember and Wade are officially my most favorite animated movie couple of all time. I've gotta be honest and say that I desperately hope that Elemental gets some kind of Disney channel sequel series, so we can explore more of the evolution of Ember and Wade's relationship, as well as build more of the world even beyond Element City. If that doesn't happen, then I've got a lot of fan fiction to write. Lol.
Omg yes me too!! I feel the exact same way as you do. Elemental spoke to me so much, it made me feel so many different emotions. I still can't stop thinking about it. I am also a sucker for romance stories. Ember and Wade are so freakin adorable, I wanna cry everytime I see them. I teared up a few times during the movie. God it was so good I can't get over it. I'm so sad it's not doing well in the box office, people need to give it a chance
I am bi myself and support LGBTQ but i disagree with you. I still enjoy seeing normal hetero couples the same as all the years i've been alive. Sure a movie that includes LGBTQ as their main chars can be nice, but i honestly like the 2 main chars in Elemental how they are. They're adorable together and period.
I really don't think they should have been gay. We really lack lately good-written love stories between two heterosexual people. Representation is one thing, I don't think we need it in every single movie that comes out. A movie about heterosexual love stories is something I really haven't seen lately in cinemas (except maybe Little Mermaid but that's a cash crab for me). I personally don't mind the lack of LGBTQ+ representation but if it is really that important for some, they could have made one of the side characters homosexual (maybe someone from Wade's family). Like if I were to represent water in a human-like form it would be a boy and fire would be a girl, so perhaps I don't see it as a big problem.
You have hetero love stories all over the place what movies have come out these days with nothing but gay couples or about a gay main couple besides bros? I dont see much rep these days for me as the main couple
@@ThinkBoxChris I was talking more about cartoons (sorry for not being precise). The last I can remember was from Encanto but that was still a side plot and I haven't seen a film focusing in heterosexual love for a while now. So I'm glad they are the way they are. If the next film comes out with a LGBTQ+ couple and it will still be good I will not mind as long as the plot makes sense and the movie is at least bearable.
I agree. The fact that they are heterosexual has no real purpose, they could have easily been non-binary or pansexual. Since their genders don’t have effect on the plot. I think it would have added more if they weren’t a regular heterosexual couple. Would have fit with the message that, “Elements _CAN_ mix” much better. Great review and opinion! 👍
but if it doesn't change if they were gay, what does it matter that they are straight then? I liked the arguments but i don't fully yet get why it has to change if it's not much for the story.
@@knollie20wayheal80 Because now it's acting like straight's the default and everyone should just be fine with it if it doesn't matter. If it doesn't matter, it can be anything at any time, it wouldn't always have to be straight with the excuse that "well if it wouldn't change anything if they were gay, what does it matter that they're straight?" If it doesn't matter, why are we so against it being gay? Why does it always have to be straight?
@@47ratsinahoodie well i wans't really being angry about gay or straight but it's a thing in stories if it makes something differnt you made a good change, so if the story was about some people finding it weird that two differnt elements mix not because race but because gender ye that be indeed something but sadly, it was a race story so it is gonna be straight for the money
Their elements so they don't really have a gender so there is no way to make them gay and the couple is supposed to represent the director and his wife
I kinda agree yeah as a lgbt adult myself. Im also starting to have a fictional crush on wade. Hes so cute and jiggly lol. He also got some fruity vibes. So yeah but either way i wouldn't mind if its straight or gay. I feel like any couple could relate to wade and ember. As as trans Nonbinary i relate to ember even if shes a cisgender woman. I have anger issues and my partner calms me down. I can see alot of me and my partner in wade and ember. We just work so well together, even if some people think me and my partner "are the same gender" or that "its gross". Well being straight is gross too. But... who cares? Its not physically hurting you if you see gays or lesbians kissing. Are you really that mentally ill of you get so pissed about gays or lesbians or trans existing?? Than thats a you problem. Worry about your own life and not someone else's. The owl house was a great disney representation for kids!!!! To let them know we exist and its NORMAL to be lgbtqiapk. A long time ago Christians were very racist. Now they accept all races. So soon Christians will have to accept the lgbt. Its how evolution works. Bad people go away and more good people are born. Cus in the Bible God never said you cant be gay. That verse people bring up means you cant be pedo There is a story roman soldiers used young boys for pleasure. So that verse means you cant be pedo. Now a days the verse has changed. Alot of the original verses have changed so can we really know what is a sin when fake Christans have changed the bible??? Jesus hanged out with 12 men and they washed eachother. 😅 im sorry but cisgender men now a days find it weird to wash eachother. Let that sink in and ask yourself: *Should i be worring about other peoples lives and not my own? Should i be really wasting my time with the thing i hate???*
@rosies69 there was this really obnoxious "only two genders" and "only 3 sexualites" guy who was being rude to people so i removed them for going after people for basically just having discussions about those things or the movie
Note to self: When time travel is invented Bring Dana Terrace back in time and Replace Pixar's Toy Story With The Owl House and it'll maybe make more money than the first 3 Toy Story Films Combined at the box office, But They all still have to be G-Rated (Which can still have very scary and violent themes in them) and there's no LGBT until the third movie because it's released over a decade after it's prequels (Which is the excuse for why it had a long "hiatus") while the studio makes other high quality original animated films during that "hiatus".
I find it funny you compare yourself with Wade because he's a chill kind of guy and right now in your video and the comments you're responds sounds aggressive and like "NO, it needs to be GAY in order to be The PERFECT movie!" and "The director SHOULD have talk with GAY couples and made it a gay movie." But that's just my thoughts about you that your definitely NO Wade. Happy Pride byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Id like it to be gay and if it was itd be a 10/10, but it doesnt need to be. The director could have talked to lgbt people but that wasnt my point, what i was getting at is that the immigrants making a new life in this city doesn't affect my point since the crux of the story is about elements mixing not gender
look, no hate, BUT as someone said on twitter: “the story is from it's directors past and relation with he's wife it's about him being a korean inmigrant falling in love with a american woman” i would love to see a gay pixar movie, but elemental is fine the way it is.
Im just gonna say it, it can still be that while still being gay. Its not some insermluntible hill its a bump at worst. Everything else is still based on their lives, that one element (lol) being changed shouldnt be something everyone's complaining about
I wish that Disney and Pixar would release a movie were it was just action and fun to watch without there needing to be a romance and the movie dosen't really tackle any big issue and is purely for entertainment
Zootopia, strange world, turning red, cars 3, finding nemo, toys tory 1-3, the great mouse Detective, chicken little, i can keep going. Romance is a part of life and all im asking is for one or two or even three that lets people like me and others in these comments feel seen and valued. Not everything has to be but itd be nice if some things were
@@ThinkBoxChris yes I do agree with that statement there should be more gay repersentation in big films you are right I don't think any animated Disney or Pixar movie has a romance based around gay people and I agree that elemental should have been gay or gender fluid witch would perfectally fit the theme
Ngl I kinda feel your point here, but I think the movie being gay would've stranged it from the first message they wanted to talk about, the racism. I'd love however to have a story similar to elements, but that talks about an *actual* lgbt couple. I'd truly love to have a movie that talk about us and only us, but I think a movie that wants to talk about race and the problems society has with it just wouldn't work, not only could people pass it as "they're just catering because they can, they don't even mean it" but also because the messages could overlap and lastly break each other. I truly wish we'd one day get a movie that is actually about us, a message about us, I loved your mentions of Luca here, because that's exactly how I feel about it, It made me BREAK when I saw it, and as it stands now, it's probably the closest and kindest take on an gay couple, or rather the experience of a teen/child with it that we've ever gotten
I can see your point on this, i just think having other themes besides us being victims or opressed because of being gay is needed more. I also dont like brining in the point of people would slag it off for being woke because its so vauge it basically means "it wasnt about straight and/or white people" people get upidy about dumb stuff all the time so I'd rather talk past them to people who want/need films like the one were discussing so they feel seen and heard. Like how we did with luca. Thank you for this comment by the way, it really made my day. If im coming off rude i apologize my brain is fried atm from lack of sleep
The strange world is such an incredible film, I loved every part of it. But the media seemed to hide it.? I only knew about its existence a week after it came out because I was gonna watch another film on the cinema. The marketing was trash. “Oh but since it is gay people are less open minded” the movie isn’t about being gay, it is just a couple that happens to be homosexual. The studios tend to ignore the gay films they put out there. Luca was only very well known because it wasn’t canon that they were going to be together, even tho we know they will. This leads us to hypocrisy, why make the film if you don’t want it to be popular?? I get it is for the props of it, like saying the company is LGBT friendly but it just doesn’t make sense. The marketing for The strange world was basically irrelevant, unfortunately, and they got mad because it didn’t bring money in, sure thing it did they didn’t announce it. But the small group of people that know about liked the movie. Is very well made, their relationship is lovable and not forced at all. But the company choose to kind of hide just so it was in their lgbt category. I get what you mean when you say you wanted this to be gay, but if it was probably the marketing would be small to none.
smdh the comments implying that a not-hetero relationship in media has to have a story involving homophobia/the struggle of not being straight is just ridiculous. we're trying to normalize it right? then why does it HAVE to involve a plot where it's like the real world and no one accepts it fully? i feel like that takes away the whole point of having representation in the first place. people go to media to escape the real world anyways who cares if there's no homophobia in ur pixar movie with a non-hetero couple?
I actually feel this way about Turning Red, as a Transmasc person I identify with Mei so much it would have so incredible if the main character was a trans guy it's a legit one of my most favorite movies but I feel like they missed such a great opportunity.
Oh thats intresting i never thought about mei being trans, that'd certainly make the owning the panda thing have more weight to it. I really like that idea now
@@grAnita- Late af to this, but trans masc means, trans masculine. A trans person who probably isn't binary (So they may identify as non binary and or genderfluid for example instead of a man) but is presenting themselves as more masculine.
Awesome video dude, this really struck a core with me! You know what reaally pisses me off about this movie? The fact that they cut the scene of Wade totally being bi 😭 in a deleted scene called "Dante's Challenge". We could've at least gotten those crumbs BUT NOOO
Yeah ive seen that scene and i agree we should have gotten it. But overall the movies beautiful i just think it could have hit more if it had gone this route
Kinda feels like you need a movie tailored to your lifestyle specifically, which ultimately removes the quality of empathy we are suppose to experience while watching a film. I disagree that this project would have been better per se if they made them gay…with how polarizing the topic of exposing children to the community has become as of this year, it would have done worse financially. Just look at Target 😔
One time yes i would like that, im not a woman im not a lesbain and im not a straight man, so yes one animated romance from a major studio would be nice. And im not ashamed to ask for it. Also im a very empathic person, like way more than youd think im just also autistic and find it hard to get into a movie all the time if their something nagging at the back of my head. Me crying at this thing or giving it a 9 out of 10 should tell you i got invested i just wanted to feel seen is all. And i still dont get the exposing it to kids thing, we exsit we have children why cant they see their parents or themselves on screen either? And yeah the target thing is unfortunate
I watched it with my best friend/ex we're both non binary lesbians from different cultures/ethnicities We both loved it and called it one of the queerest movies that aren't technically queer... It would have been so much better with gay or enby couple I agree for sure People don't see it through that lense because our stories aren't told and that's infuriating
I love Elemental and have it in my top 5 of Pixar movies. Personally, I disagree that this had to be gay. I think it can work either way, and I personally prefer the confident girl-emotional guy pairing. I wouldn't have wanted them to change it. I think you were unintentionally glib and disrespectful in your Before Movie section when you acted as if Ember-Wade wouldn't have any stigma against them because they're cisgender and hetero. They actually have a stigma in this world because of how the society is structured. I think you were right that Zootopia had more to do with "othering" and steretypes, but I think you make the same misunderstanding as a lot of people in thinking Elemental is about race. It's more an allegory for society accomodating immigrants. Ember says very eary on that the city isn't made with fire people in mind and it's because of this fire people generally are ostracized from the non-fire districts. The movie shows us early on why the city might have these policies. In Ember's first trip to the city, she burns down plants on earth people and makes water people boil just by being around them. Her anger also leads to her exploding. It's very understandable why the other elements on paper wouldn't want fire people around. Since there's a simple logistical reason why the city doesn't accomodate them, the problem is more synonymous to accomodating immigrants. Like in real life, it's not always easy to accomodate immigrants such as having a translation for every foreign language group. However, the movie uses Ember and Wade's interactions with the each other's culture to show how much each group can share and gain from one another. In that sense, the film is less saying "other elementals are wrong and fire elementals are right" and it's more so saying the society should accomodate fire people (immigrants) more because both the city and fire people will benefit by doing so. The interviews with the director Peter Sohn help show this is more of an immigrant story as he spoke about how the inspiration for this story came from his Korean immigrant family immigrating to the United States and facing stigma.
I like them as they are dont get me wrong, but id argure showing the same dynamic as a homosextual couple would have been nice to see. How many pairs of hetero couples that fit their mold do we have, probably more than i can count. As for the immigration story, i dont see how thats not racisim or something similar to it. We see more often fire people being rude to water beings than the other way around, yes other elements are rude to them and its a back and forth which is more how racisim works irl. I agree society needs to acommidate immigrants more dont missunderstand me, that needs to be changed. Again though i dont see how me saying it should have been gay changes this, especially since the issue is based on race it shouldnt matter to this point. And my point with bringing up them being cis and straight is that for most people who you date is fine if you meet those two passing requirnments and this movie could help break that mentality for people thats all i was getting at
@@ThinkBoxChris I think it would be nice either way. Just because this movie falls into the trope of a confident girl-emotional guy doesn't mean it's less interesting. What sets this film apart from others is how well it executes on that premise. Can you name me a confident girl-emotional guy pairing that was executed to a similar level of quality? I think it's something similar to racism, but not exactly racism. It's a form of prejudice more akin to what immigrants faced for being a different ethnicity. I get that this distinction can seem insignificant, but I'd argue it's not. People have literally been criticizing this movie for handling the racism aspect poorly, because there is a logical reason other elements would keep fire elementals around certain areas. However, if they saw it as more of an allegory for accomodating immigrants (which is more accurate), then the analogy doesn't break down as much. In real life, there is a logical reason why society doesn't accomodate different language groups. Similarly, in Elemental, there is a logical reason the other elementals keep fire people out of certain areas. In both real life and Elemental though, it still sucks for immigrants that are essentially shut out of society. In gist, you're right that this is something similar to racism but I think it's important to be more precise about what this film is really about. Gotcha, yeah that makes sense. I just thought it could've been a little better phrased is all. I agree with the actual point you were making there.
@ThePastAnalysis honestly your right the dynamic of them works, and the spesific way is gendered in that way is good. I have my wants but i agree there. And thst exactly thats what im trying to get across, thank you having that set up snd back and forth makes sense. Every racist has a "logical" reasons for being that way it stills racism and its still sxummy
@@ThinkBoxChris Thanks for the dialogue. ^^ I completely understand where you're coming from. Also, I completely agree on your racism point. Every racist thinks they have a "logical" reason for being that way, but it's just bullshit.
That wording is really starting to bite me in the ass, what i mean is that i loved the movie but if they'd done this one thing it would have sent me over the edge
As a Hispanic girl in the lgbt+ comm,I fully agree with your point! I saw ALOT of myself in Ember,and love the love story between her and Wade and how it spoke to interracial couples,but damn…it would’ve been more relatable to me if they were gay huh? I still think the film a 9/10 too. Only lost that one point cause (SPOILERS) I just wish they made the problem with the leak more dramatic and not just have it break open conviently in time for the climax lol. Also,I gotta say that as someone who is not a romance fan at all,I LOVE THIS MOVIE SO MUCH I’ve been rewatching so many scenes😭I think the problem with most romance stories is that they just throw tropes here and there for the characters to get together. No actual connection can be formed like that so it ends up feeling artificial and/or boring to me. But like you said,bro,WE SEE THEM ACTUALLY GOING ON DATES AND TALKING PERSONALLY AND CONNECTING it’s sad that’s such a rarity in romance stories now from what I’ve seen💀
@@rykloog9578 You do know lgbt people are more likely to be kicked out of their home before graduating and become homeless right? Or that in many states it is completely legal to fire someone or evict them solely for being born lgbt, all this means that many lgbt people are below the poverty line and it costs money to move, so thousands of not hundreds of thousands of lgbt people are stuck in places that don’t few them as people deserving of equal rights.
It's so nice to find someone with such similar thoughts as me! I saw Elemental on June 20th and as I was watching I just kept thinking how much greater this would have been if it was a queer romance! It really did seem like a perfect opportunity that could have incorporated an LGBT+ component so well. I think adding the queer aspects would have meshed wonderfully with the other themes and concepts of the story. Ember was giving off very "not straight" vibes to me, I could totally see her being into girls. (Or it could've worked the other way too with Wade being into guys.) Side note: While I thought the romance was done well for the most part, I would have liked more hints at the beginning that they liked each other in a romantic way because until Wade asked Ember out I didn't really get a romantic vibe from them.
Right yeah just seemed a bit abrupt going from them clashing over that to him asking her out (but it's possible that there were more hints and I just didn't pick up on them since it was only the first watch and I wasn't analyzing everything super closely, also I'm aroace.)
People don't need more representation or whatever. I don't care about pushing a certain thing. It's utterly inconsequential. What we need are good stories that provide solid entertainment and can resonate with anyone without Pandering
Did you watch the video? Because the point im making is the movie is great as is bit theres no reason it had to be straight. Great story, just flip a gender and it woulda been steller. Also i really hate this argument because nothing needs anything in stories, but we want to be seen why is that a bad thing. Pandering is when you call it out or do it out of obligation or begrudgingly im just saying if you do it for the sake of it its ok hell id argure just writing a straight cis couple then flipping the pronouns makes it so its as natural as possible since you wrote it with something your familiar with
❤ completely agree with you. I fell in love with the movie and saw my boyfriend and I in Wade and Ember . Teared up 3 times and cried once. Very beautiful story and the music was amazing.
Unfortunately it feels like no one can be satisfied by Disney now. Either its too much gay representation for some people or not enough for others. To be fair, it feels like the main reason why we don't get a gay couple front and stage in a Disney movie is because it won't make enough money (which admittedly it probably won't), yet their movies keep flopping anyway because they fail in other countries due to not removing what little lgbt stuff there is in it. This company just stays losing all the time no matter what they do and it's hilarious.
Thats kinda the vibe im getting, theyre trying to have their cake and eat it too and pleasing no one if they just either but the bullet or didnt do it id be fine with it but the in the middle thing is annoying
If they made Wade a woman or Ember a dude then it would feel like forced representation, which is what they’ve already done in the past. But if they did, it wouldn’t make sense to say “Elements cannot mix” and then have the meaning of the story be that they can mix because two people of the same gender can’t “mix” (if “mixing” in this case is having a baby”). I do feel like lgbtq+ needs more representation in movies, but I don’t think it fits with this movie. 7:33 Also I just wanted to mention that Wade’s mom is already named Brooke
Ok how would it be forcing it? If it was written that way thats nlt forcing it its just making it. And honestly the mixing not having kids thing would be really good way to paralle it. They adopt a cloud kid or a water and fire baby repectfully, thatd be dope. And i forgot that, but still just name ideas
@@ThinkBoxChris I guess that’s true, but I still think Disney would mess it up somehow. Anyways, I respect your opinions and I hope you and everyone else gets the right representation that you deserve.
i will get hate for this, you can even delete my comment, idc pepole have opinions, and what im here for is to give one. I think the reason this movie shouldn't be gay is because of how many representation we already have (i'm part of the lgbt myself). Many shows, movies, series already have a good representation in them, for example Owl house, she-ra, idk. A animated movie that has a straght relationship in them is already a good concept and it focuses on how it is build (thats how i see it). I'm really attached to how the movie shows their feelings grow overtime and how natural it feels. The other thing it focuses on is the fact that they're both different from each other, in every aspect. Just because you see the stereotypes of ember, a woman, being shown to loose her temper, doesn't mean that isn't a representation on its own. I see myself in ember, i tend to loose my temper too in many situations. My point being, if it'll get too many representation, it'll just be a movie about disney/pixar showing how they are supportive of everything. in short, it's good as it is (sorry if it doesn't make sense, english isn't my first language. Besides, i just wanted to speak from my point of view)
No no you did fine, glad you took the time. I feel i need to point out that i never said ember was a stereotype i said from the look of the trailers she was in the post watch section i went out of my way to say she wasnt. As for she ra and the owl house both of those shows are good but she ra has big issues with how catra treats adoura and the owl house kinda got wonky but the romance was good. Its not that we dont have rep but more is always welcome
@@ThinkBoxChrisanswering to the last one, i think in the case of elemental we already have enough. Not always more means better, and this movie already has some issues (forgot what they are, you get my point)
Most of the “rep we already have” you mentioned were tv shows, note films, and while it has amazing representation, being a tv show each episode was only really seen by 70k to 150k people upon airing while a Disney film that is marketed correctly is seen by close to a million people in opening weekend alone. A lot of those million people are kids, and so for lgbt kids an lgbt Disney film would help them know that they are not alone and that there is nothing wrong with how they feel, and for cis-straight kids it teaches them that different kinds of people exist in the world and that it is ok. In short, no lgbt people do not have that much rep in films, and having more rep is important.
I think it would be cute if the main couple were LGBT but the thing is... there's so much controversy around having LGBT stuff in kids media. I personally have no problem with it and I think it's cute to have this representation but there are many people out there that do not agree with me, such as my mom. When my mom heard that there's a non binary character in the movie, she was not happy with that. She says that they're "forcing" this stuff onto kids and twisting their minds or whatever. I don't think she's right, they aren't forcing kids to be gay or change their gender, they're just SHOWING this to kids and letting them know that this exists and it's normal to feel this way. Or maybe she is right and them showing LGBT representation in a kids movie is bad... I have no idea. She's very pessimistic about a lot of stuff and sees these things as a bad thing. I wish I can explain to her that it's not a bad thing but I don't think she'll listen to me. I'm sure she's not the only person who feels this way. I wish there wasn't so much controversy about this and we can all just live happily :') I'd like to know your thoughts because I want a different perspective on this but please be respectful down there and don't cause any dumb arguments... please. I loved the movie tho and it's now my fav Pixar movie ever. It's just so damn cute and beautiful 😭 Ember and Wade have my heart, they're so precious. I want what they have please :( God I wanna see it again so badly, hopefully I can sometime. Anyways sorry for the long comment. Just wanted to get this out there. Again be respectful in the comments please and don't attack me or anyone else
First off I TOTALLY agree with you. Great movie as is, a queer couple would only enhance it. I guess an argument to be made by keeping the genders can be on gender expectations. Girls aren’t allowed to lose our temper, boys aren’t allowed to cry (yet you can still make that gay because of the differing cultures). Yet Disney has already done both gender conforming and gender defying expectations stories. A girl inheriting the family business is cool in a sense. But a child not knowing where they belong because they always believed to inherit the family business while would actually fit better if they were male presenting or non-binary… so conclusion: make it gay.
It would have been cool if Wade was under the non-binary umbrella, non-binary, genderfluid, Agender etc., but had a masc lean. It would have show people that people under this umbrella don’t have to be 100% androgynous and some people are comfortable in their original bodies. This can also apply to Ember since she can change her for to some extent.
Pixar definitely is capable of making an LGBT-themed romance, since Elemental itself has a non-binary character dating a female character (granted, they're both water people, so apparently in this universe, race matters a lot more to these characters more than sexualities and gender identities.)
I’m non binary myself Wades sibling is non binary I wish they got more screen time because they just get one line it would’ve also been nice to see the 2 main characters as homosexuals
My point is that it doesn't affect the story, its completely detached from the main point of the movie, mainly embers issues with her place in the world and their/wades budding romance. Also i resent that i liked the movie alot as is
@@ThinkBoxChris The central axis of the film was emigration and how it affects it. The message seemed pretty bad to me,and although a gay relationship would make it more interesting, it would not improve the script, which seemed pretty bad to me. So I guess you're right on the one hand, and on the other hand that wouldn't change anything so it's pretty useless.
@@ThinkBoxChris No, it's bad by itself. I only said that the central theme is immigration . Although thinking about it, more than bad, the movie is mediocre, because it could have been much better, but not because of the immigrants or something
Imagine thinking that non intentionally making a character gay is somehow wrong. There is a unique sense of entitlement in thinking that every character had to be exactly like you for you to find them enjoyable; It makes me embarrassed to be a liberal in the modern day
@rykloog9578 no one said they didnt find the characters enjoyable, not even me. All i said was i wasnt as invested as i could have been. I still liked the characters and loved the movie. Also what do you mean non intentionally making a gay character?
@rykloog9578 ok so again even with the correction i still dont get your point "thinking not intentionally making a character gay is bad" i dont think making a character gay intentionally or unintentionally is bad or good what you do with then is where i get my kicks. And this movie would have been great if it were about a gay couple, im not demanding it and i dont think lesser of the flim for it, i just like seeing gay characters thrive and be happy
@hmmhmmm6924 np, i try to keep up with comments so people feel welcome and i dont let them turn into a sess pit that most comments can. Hope you like the short!
I never said the was gay subtext in elemental i said theres no reason it needs to be straight. As for luca idc who fucking wrote that or what that say thars one of the cutest comming to age things ive about lgbt kids ive seen in years. Regardless of what rhe director has said or weither or not hes straight or not its gay. You can accidentally your way into stuff like this, we say that about bad things all the time, why is this good thing any different?
@@ThinkBoxChristhere IS a reason why it needs it be straight, and that’s because it’s a personalised story that is meant to represent a real life couple, which heterosexual.
@bruhboigame836 just the way they interact, and hoe they feel to and about each other. I could go on and explain it but i feel like itll fall on def ears
While i am not gay i loved the story the way it is i understand your side. However what i was wondering is some people were complaining about the nonbinary character that was in the movie so if they did the gay couple idea do you think they could have the same reaction or its different. Again im not trying to prove you wrong im just genuinely curious
I have no doubt there would be a backlash but i know that lgbt people and allys would have seen it more than people boycotting it. As for lake its the fact their not confirmed as nb on screen and are only referred to as she/her thats gotten some people in the communities upset. And yes he/they and she/they nb people exist, but its hard to confirm that in this movie by virtue of the fact they only call them by she/her pronouns so they came off as lesbain rather than nb. Assholes are just mad lake ecists at all and it erks me. Not saying your either your just asking for clarification and thats great
The forbidden love trope feels like a mockery. Like straight people who thought, "What if love was illegal?" despite that idea being a reality for most queer people, then and now. It's impossible to write a forbidden straight love story without it feeling insensitive to queer people and their experiences, because it erases LGBTQ+ struggles in favour of a more cis/het approach to something not cis/het in nature. It's a mockery because cis/het people have never been vilified for being cis/het, yet the entire trope throws that out the window because nobody wants to give minorities a voice.
Exsactly thats Kinda what im getting at, and a lot of people tet to flip it into an argument of story structure or elements. Ive legit has people say that if its gay or must be about overcoming homophobia otherwise it's pointless. I could not see it that way if i tried because being lgbt has more struggles than being hated for it
@@ThinkBoxChris If people can't think of any other struggles queer people face then that's a problem. Representation isn't "homophobia is bad." it's "queer people are human and deserve to be treated as such just like you do." It's why I'm so grateful to shows like The Owl House that don't discuss homophobia and instead delve into problems that don't even relate to the characters being queer. It's so much more realistic and shows actual effort put into humanising non-straight characters. There's more to a gay character than being gay.
@MeemahSN i agree like for all its faults strange world dod that well and made it more of an adventure that had a gay character as its secondary lead. And i keep telling people you can do so much more but they just act like im asking for the moon when in reality im asking for a glass of water
You do realise just because 2 people are straight doesn't mean their love was always accepted. It's a trope as old as ancient Greece (Pyramus and Thisbe) and in real life couples could be prevented by marrying for reasons such as social class, caste systems, race and so on. In cultures where arranged marriages is prominent, couples may be prohibited to marry cause one of them is already promised to someone else or if one side is much poorer than the other. Heck King Edward VIII had to abdicate his throne when he married a divorcee. On top of that everyone in the royal family had to have the Queen's (now the King's) permission to marry anyone. Harry had to ask permission to marry Meghan, the monarch could easily say no. Princess Ayako had to give up her titles and status to marry her husband. The idea of forbidden romance isn't just a gay thing and I use words like prohibited/prevented very loosely. I mean their love wouldn't always be accepted which is what forbidden love is about. You're not being mocked or thrown away if someone decides to write a story about forbidden love between 2 straight people. And to claim its not cis/het in nature falls flat cause its about forbidden LOVE, th couple's gender doesn't have to be the reason its forbidden. And its not insensitive for others to write a forbidden love story about 2 straight people. Its incredibly shallow and frankly dumb to assume just cause one is a boy and the other is a girl that their love will always be accepted by society or their family especially in fantasy settings such as Elemental. Especially with immigrant parents like Ember who clearly hold their culture in high regards. Its even more forbidden love cause the 2 can't touch eachother.
@chattynoir2934 all of your examples pull from history and the modern examples come from customs that we dont have in the west as prominently in the east your right those are muvh more common but even then theres usually an agreement the two will just go along with it and have real long on the side because they dont really have any other options. I've heard this exsact sinario from multiple people in that kind of arrangement. However this was made by an american for a mostly american audience and in fact element city is basically new york that's the point. So yes in america cis straight couples are going to be seen as less problematic regardless of race and in fact the only characters who care in the movie are her parents and even they come around. Ember and wade even touch multiple times at the end so thats not a concern. The movie is great i love it but it feels very shallow to see people kick up a stink about 2 20 somethings be chastised for dating when then they can tell their parents to go pound sand. Making it gay adds another wrinkle that would A be more true to life and B would speak to so many more people. Its not a strech to say any of that its also not a strech to say it feels cheap due to its pairings orientation
If anything they should have switched the two main characters genders. I much prefer when the guy is the hotheaded one and the girl being the laid back one.
@@ThinkBoxChris Yeah, could be just a me thing but idk I just love the dynamic when the male character is more hot tempered and the female character brings in that emotional support. Which funny enough I noticed it's like that more in real life than in fiction
@AndyOs thats cause it bleeds into the hetero normative angle that women are what clams the rage in a mans heart. Not that thats invalid its just done a lot and its often how straught couples are meant to act to a degree in pop culture. That attitude iis changing recently and while all love between consenting adults in vaild its smart to exam things
I don't know if this would sound bigoted, but personally I don't think Elemental should have been gay because it would have made their sexuality a spectacle, and would take away from the other hurdles within their character arcs. As a lesbian, I prefer when gay couples are portrayed as a sub-focus or hardly anything to gawk at. Since Elemental focused on messages of the fulfilment of immigrant parents' expectations and discrimination first, and romance as a sub-plot, having a same-sex relationship would've shifted the focus from their fundamental biases and differences to homophobia and forbidden gay love, you know? Maybe if the main plot was going on some kind of adventure or overcoming a struggle that just-so-happened to have a gay couple in it, then sure! A gay couple with fire and water would've been a bit too on the nose for my liking, although I probably would've still loved the movie for the main plot.
Honestly I dont see how that would benthe case. People keep saying you have to talk about homophobia if the main couple is gay and I really dont see how. You can totally keep the racial aspect and not worry about homophobia as a plot point hy simply adressing it. Embers dad not liking water people but still wanting his son to find a nice fire boy is all it would take. The movie already is an adventure with a romsnce sub plot so again im a little confused why chabgung the sex would shift that in any way
@@ThinkBoxChris ahhh I see, I can see how those elements (pun intended hehe) would work under any other franchise, maybe it's my pixar paranoia but I feel like any gay, "destined to be apart" main relationship done by the studio would feel like nothing short of a spectacle, or a zoo exhibit 😭 but honestly the premise sounds interesting, as long as it's not handled poorly
Thats because we were more repressed and hidden from the world. We've been here since the dawn of time and thats not gonna change any time soon. No not everything has to be gay im not asking for that im just saying this specific property coulda have benifited from it. Also get a new knee jerk reaction this ones getting old
Disney still has a chance for the possible sequel to be gay. Ember and Wade’s daughter or son, could be homosexual, for the love of god Disney I’m screaming at you to do this!
The fact that you saw luca and immediately thought "Oh the kids must be sexually attracted to one another." means that you should probably head to the nearest FBI headquarter and sign up to be put on several lists.
I... didnt though, i said the movie was gay and that they like each other/are developing feelings for one another. Their 12 im not gonna suggest they're doing anything nasty. There is a BIG difference between liking someone, developing feelings for them, and having sextual desire for spmeone. Im more conserned you thought i went there or that you went there yourself
@@ThinkBoxChris I can't fathom how you think this somehow makes it better. Seeing two 12 year olds being friends and going "ooh they are totally gay" is insanely creepy and inappropriate and absolutely something most normal people would want you on a list for.
@eyjay1508 ok then answer me this, ponyo is a movie about 2 8 year olds in love and no one bats an eye at that, the bee movie is about a bee and a human getting together and one cared, the adams family 2 made a literal pig into a girl so pugsly could date her and no one gave a shit. Why does me seeing something i went through at that age and going "aww how cute" bother you?
@@ThinkBoxChris Imagine a 20-30 something year old man sitting on a bench at a park, looking at kids playing and speculating on which ones are and aren't gay, and which ones he wishes were gay. Now try to picture the average person's reaction to this man.
Ok, but im not its a movie with fictional characters that just resonated with me.id that such a problem? To counter that how often do steaight people see a boy and a girl interact at that age and wonder if their dating or if they like each other? And no the answer cannot be zero because im well aware people do it, they still do it to me now with my female friends
A gay romance is long overdue. A large chunk of the world's population is lgbt in some way and we NEED this. Yes there is gay media, but if it came from a huge studio like Pixar that can reach a lot of people, i truly believe it would help people understand gay people more and stop seeing us as evil or sinners or whatever and just show us as human beings who are really no different from straight people. I would have adored this movie a million times more if it was gay. And i think Ember should have been a guy. Theres already a lot of lesbian rep because its like you said they're less threatening. If it was two men i think it would be very impactful because men who show affection for one another really needs to be shown in media because men having emotions is basically frowned upon. People seem to hate on openly gay men just a little more than gay women because women showing affection is totally normal. In conclusion, Ember should be Blaze lol
I feel like you and me would get along well, I have a blog we’re among other things I keep track of all the lgbt rep that has appeared in Disney films, and for this past New Years I wrote a very long piece on all the good and bad Disney has done for the lgbt community (which sadly the bad was about 4 times bigger than the good). Like here is a small fact from that piece that you may or may not know, several years ago where Disney bought Bluesky it allowed the Buck tv show to finish and ordered the studio to make the Scratch short everyone loves so much, but at the same time forced the studio to cancel the 75% completed film Nimona about a gender non conforming young woman and her two male comrades who were a couple, it was nearly complete but they stopped it. After nearly 4 years the film is finally coming out because Netflix took pity and finished it but we could have had an action movie for kids with a male couple main characters 2 or 3 years ago if Disney hadn’t canceled it. Again, that’s only a small amount of the info I got on Disney.
@@cajunking5987 That wasn’t what I was saying at all. In early 2020 there weren’t many lgbt characters in Disney films (including Disney studios, mcu, Pixar, and Star Wars) and there was even less mlm couples as this very video points out. So if this film had come out when it was supposed to it would have been before the terrible rep of the Jungle Cruise, and all the other mediocre rep in 2020, 2021, and 2022. Also they are there own characters who are not defined as just being Nimona’s teammates. Put simply, while not perfect, it would have been a big step forward for both lgbt rep and specifically mlm couples.
@@cajunking5987 As I explained to you in another reply, not every man dating another man is gay, some are, but some can also be bi, pan, omni, or fall under the aroace umbrella. So unless a man or character specifically say they only like men/trans masc people it is presumptuous to call him gay.
I dont know how i didn't see this comment yesterday, but that sucks they did that and me and my are gonna watch nimona this weekend when it comes out so thatll be fun. And again im sorry for cajunking hes banned now, dont let anyone police your language your using inclusive language and thats really good
they must have been gay for sure. We've seen the same things over and over and over and over. Since we were kids, the media has drowned us in everyone being "straight " The first thing that crossed my mind when I first saw this concept was that I wish they were gay. It would make a lot of sense because, literally, real life? but nooo. We already know that big companies don't care about anyone, but it pisses me off that they are so constipated about lgbt+. They force themselves to make every couple straight.
This makes a good point, but the story was not meant to be focused around the relationship as much as it was around the dynamic between ember and her father. I don’t think you’re point has much ground, but I’ll respect it nonetheless.
Have you seen the movie? Half the run time is literally about ember and wade, and regardless what does my inital point have to do with that. It could have been all 95 minutes it could have been 5 minutes still coulda been about a gay couple
I haven’t watched the movie but I feel like if they wanted to do for “forbidden love” they could’ve had Amber not being able to date him may be his parents that looked down upon her in discussed because of her element. (I don’t know.) I feel like the “forbidden love” trope has gotten too old and is overused and overrated. but i’d be completely fine with a movie where the main couple is queer I would Honestly, to see a queer couple bond I bet that story would be really good now I want to see that story seriously we need more people of color and queer people being represented in popular media (the reason, I say popular media is because there are many stories and games that have people of color or queer people or both) i’m not a part of any of these groups but we need more representation for these groups of people. Edit : I know that this video is queer people but it still stands we need more representation of queer people and people of color.
I agree we need more poc and queer rep in general. To your other point the movie has more casual racisim pn both sides byt nothing too bad. Its not exsactly forbiddin its mors frowned upon. I just dont see a reason why it had to be a straight couple you know
@@ThinkBoxChris yeah probably because they don’t need to include queer people in the first place they just do it so they can look good not because they actually want to.
The story is based on the directors real life story, but I feel they could've just worked around the concept a bit more than just change the races into elements, like you saying LGBTQ could've made it a bit more dramatic and accurate. I feel like the story of a guy and a girl works here, but would've been better if one of them were the opposite gender
Exsactly, just because its based on his life doesnt mean this point isnt invalid, its just a fact about it people are so protective thar notion like im saying it should be about something else
I didnt see this for some reason, but to answer your question the genders in question in the romance dont affect the story, which means that changing it around doesnt matter. Making ember a boy or qade a gorl doesnt affect the story negatively so i say do it.
Idk... Sometimes when Disney dose do it and make the characters gay it feels like they just do it for just the purpose of saying "were not homophobic" , and sometimes its just doesn't feel neutral... :/
Its how their doing it, they do a token bad side character and kinda just leave it. Thats why i said eithan was a good gay character because depsite that movies faults hes a fully written character with goals besides tend plants kiss boys
If Disney is actually honest about diversity then they should make a gay couple love story. Heck in my opinion I would be great to have a gay/bi/poly couple/throuple who are native American or black or Asian or South Asian or latine or percifika etc
Hi 👋 , my names Christian i am a studio ceo of my own animation company. U know ive been watching your video on repeat and reading the comments that really analyze your point on the subject. I can understand, you know we can all agree that it wouldve been cool to see ourselves in a film, just make it a bit different. I loved this movie, and got to the point where i almost balled my eyes so much, not since Inside Out where i did. Anyway, im not picking sides, i can agree it wouldnt make a difference if it were gay or not. We all know what this film is based on and what its made for. And your argument is understandble. Im currently directing a film, in bio, thats my 1st LGBT themed movie, and it dosnt necessary have my MYSELF as a gay person seen, but the themes on self identity and expression. You should check it out, it stars a gay lead and its about talking animals LOL. Coming this fall. I just want to say that we are in charge of how we want to be seen even though we cant change that like this movie, and believe me id change nothing i loved it so much. You as a content creator can make yourself seen or others seen, like how your audience is shown agreeing with your argument. There are plenty of OTHER sources that star gay characters out there, and sometimes i still dont see myself. Maybe as a gay person but theres more to your identity than just your sexuality. I may not be the best commeneter on here, but id rather show my support and say you do what feels right to you 🙂
Before even watching the video and only seeing the title, I thought "ya know... that would have been good and i probably would have been more interested in seeing it." Though i would hope theyd keep ember (or whatever name change) short, as short kings deserve love too. Typically ive only seen the guy be tall and when theyre together theyre around the same height 😅
Haha that's kinda what i was hoping for with this actually. And yeah i love short guys, i would have thought ember being taller would have been fun too but idk im odd like that
I like the movie as it is, since it’s mostly based on the director’s life. Like it could be a gay movie, but it would probably be treated worse than Strange world that has an LGBT+ character. Like Strange world wasn’t even promoted anywhere and it censored in some countries… in a way Disney will not give an LGBT+ film a chance.. otherwise why cancelled the owl house even though it’s super popular?
@@ThinkBoxChris honestly, i agree with your point but would it have been executed well enough? hollywood has been facing a ton of backlash for forced representation(cleopatra) and bad gay films(bros). i think its great for representation but not to make it forced and natural.
@siewleekong8499 how would it be forced though? At least in this case, ive always said if you struggle to write a couple one way write them as the orientation you know then twwak it from there. To me them being the way they are wouldn't have made a difference if one of them was flipped
I mean, I would've loved if the movie was about a gay couple, but I would always want to have a gay couple in any movie, so I don't really understand saying that this specific movie SHOULD have been gay. It's not like the forbidden romance makes no sense if they are a straight couple. Right now, it works well as an allegory for interracial relationships.
@@ThinkBoxChris Yeah for sure. But I mean any romance movie would hit harder for me if the characters were gay. If the new Little Mermaid movie was gay, that would hit harder too. So I'm just trying to ask why you specifically say that Elemental should be gay. Like you rated it 9/10 instead of 10/10 because it was about a straight couple. I'm just confused whether this is a sentiment you hold to all movies or just Elemental. And I get that it might be harder to relate to a story about a straight couple but is that worth docking a whole point? Like wouldn't it be weird for me to rate something 9/10 instead of 10/10 because the movie was about Americans and I can't relate to their culture.
@mickey7402 the irony is i made a video years ago about the little mermaid remake being a prime candidate for being gay. Isn't that funny? As for the other thing, i dont know honestly, i dont really nocite nationality on things because it just never accurse to me. When it comes to elemental i think because i went in with that first impression thought i had it just dinged my enjoyment, im not saying everything has to be gay but id like it more if more things were. Idk this one just hit me really hard in the feels that i just wanted that extra bit if connective tissue for me on a personal level. Ive definitely felt things for straight couples, one of my favorites being flynn and rapunzel from tangled because their so good. So honestly its most liliky only elemental as far as i can reason in my own head
*Fun Fact:* Wade (The Water Guy) has a Non-binary Sibling called Lake, who has a Girlfriend called Ghibli.
I know i mentioned them "the lesbian relative" was them. Im more just annoyed that they didnt get a single line or their girlfriend. Also they're only confirmed as nb on social media wade calls them his sister rather than sibling
@@ThinkBoxChris also:
Lake, Ghibli and their Voice Actresses haven't been Credited.
What a Miracle that apperently, this Movie haven't been banned in the Middle East and/or in other Countries because of Lake and Ghibli Relationship.
@omundodovini3774 i dont count that as miracle because they arent credited and are so androgynous that they could be called brother in pther languages to obfuscate the issue
@@ThinkBoxChris your right!
Thank you, sorry if i was coming off as rude i didnt mean to
I sincerely love how genuine and honest you are when expressing your opinion.
Thanks, i don't see the value in tiptoeing around stuff like that
Opinions should align with mine. Which is every Pixar movie sucks. HEIL DREAMWORKS
@MilkishBread ok... why do you think that?
@@MilkishBreadTrue, but Why are you mad that people’s opinions don’t align with yours?? People can have opinions of whatever they want, so just let them have it and not force it in others.
@@RealZerenaFanhe was joking lol
As a gay guy myself, I agree with you completely, although since this movie is a story about the director and his life I don't see how he could've made this gay without it being weird or not feeling unnatural. Still a bummer though, I feel like this movie could've been great had it been gay.
Now that's the only reason I think Wade and Ember being a woman and make sense:)
@@yoboylarry Why worry what happens to you after you die, when you can live your life while still alive.
Gay isn't something you can just pray away, baby we're born this way
Idk get a consultant haha? Like if hes not sure how to write a gay couple get someone to help do it, itd be like me asking someone to help write a m/w romance since i dont know those well. Ember is meant to be him and wade is his wife, so its already flipped, so i dont get why it couldnt be is all im saying you know?
Glad you liked it though means a lot
It could've been great, yes, but unfortunately we could've never gotten that, since it would have done worse in the box office. You know how people still are nowadays
the immigrant family aspect was inspired from his life, but I doubt all of the movie was ? I could be wrong, but it seems doubtful that such a big production would have one single inspiration
I think this movie had a message, but LGBT etc wasn't it. And that is fine. I do believe we need more representation and I also am sick of it being slipped in as a lesbian couple in the background here, or a subtle flirt of a gay pairing over there. However, as a pansexual, I feel in the unique position to say that this movie hit all the right romantic notes and it didn't trouble me. I don't get angry to see hetreo movies, especially when I feel the real message here was the weight of family legacy and racism. Things I have felt coming from an upper middle class white family who shamed me for dating a black man from a lower class family. I can see how many people will feel the impact. Just like Turning Red wasn't made for me and likely not for you, it was made for someone else. One day a movie will be made for us.
If they added another layer, it would have drawn away from that personal impact for the person this movie was made for. Now - I don't think it SHOULD be considered another layer of complexity, I think different relationship pairings should be normalized, but we aren't there yet. Who knows if we ever will be. This movie is beautiful and compelling. It made me want to go for it, take chances and not just fit a mold someone else made for me. That is a good thing to feel leaving the theater.
Really, I think the change we want to see won't happen until the people who are in charge of decisions at these companies aren't cis, older, white men. Indie creations are a far better repesentation of the general public's opinion than the CEO of any animation company.
To be clear i never said the movie had an lgbt message, it doesn't need a message about it to be about it. Im aware the message is about legacy and family anxiety and all that. I say as much in the video.
However i agree the movie was great i loved it, and im glad you got something out of it as well, its nice to see people getting what i got. I just don't have the ability to see myself fully in it, mostly because of my stuoid brain, but still that movies a solid 9 to me
Ugh
I do see what you mean and you are completely right. Movies are all made for different people and me personally, I did see this movie and felt represented and not because I am heterosexual but because of the relationship, because I do feel in many ways like Waid and I try my best to help others and qhen I do see taht spark in someone like Amber, I try my best to show it and make them happy independently of their gender or how I love them romantically or not. I understand what the message of this video was and I understand where some people here are coming from, but I don't think it is right to shove this story off of what it is. Most people today look at something hoping to find lgbtq+ stories, gay couples or in this case since this movie did show this by the relationship between Amber and Waid, asexual couples and it is completely valid to want to see it and search for it, for understanding. But I think that calling this just a heterosexual couple or that it should have been something else diminishes the point and pointing out this libe, this difference between hetero and not isn't healthy or helpful because it only leads to generalization. I do understand and acknowledge these difference taht only some people can understand on how it feels to be of a different culture, religion or just different in who you are attracted to, but i also believe taht you are missing some of the point of the movie. I would have loved it regardless of who was the protagonist pair, but it's important to validate also people who aren't that. Lately lgbtq+ has been more present in media. You say it isn't or isn't enough, but it's really all over between younger people, TOH, Steven Universe, Hailey's on it, Infinity Train, Wendell and Wild, Kipo, Nimona, Luca...it's in a lot of movies and shows to a point where it has gained height and a hype taht leads some to perceive a certain type of love as more meaninful than another and this movie I believe, was meant to validate other people too. To say taht it's also okay if you aren't like the rest, like what now feels the more accepted and expected side of the spectrum. I myself for outsider factors feel less heard and not because of who I am attracted to, but just because I am who I am, Im not afraid to say I am a white heterosexual guy, but that doesn't make me who I am, those are just labels to me, labels people use to say what person I am instead of who and what i went for when seeing this movie I found, people who genually loved and cared for each other and so much more. I wouldn't have minded if they were a gay couple or a lesbian couple or any other, but the movie chose this one to express how completely different people from worlds that feel apart can get in touch, can change and help each other, but I'd also be lying if I wasn't saying I felt this, I felt understood. I fekt validated to and seen, by seeing someone that i am very alike on screen just like you. It's a tricky topic and discussion but I think it is important to remember that we are all valid and we all matter, like you said and I won't stay here talking about minorities or majorities because to me it boils down to a change in perspective by ourselves or others but me personally I felt validated seeing someone like Waid and Amber staying together and just exploring who they are with each other and how well they worked together like I wish to one day do with someone I love and care for. Before I loose the thread what I am trying to say is that all love is important, in its various ways but equally and I feel there has been a case of giving more hype toward one for example lesbian couples than gay or other couples and this included me and I appreciate this movie for doing what it did without asking a what if and showing the importance of acceptance and culture and diversity within thsi fictional landscape by accepting same gender couples and so much more. I'm happy we saw this couple on screen, regardless of their sexuality or gender and what not but seeing the one we have touched me and I understand you, how you don't feel the same while watching this like I can't have that while watching a same gender couple...there is acceptance, love and more but it's not the same as what you felt personally and that's a layer this movie has that made me feel heard because of it and I hope you find more of it and I have no doubt you will in the future. The landscape of animation and representation is only growing and so is diversity and awareness of it and its importance and I wouldn't be more happy for it
@@dgames220cope
Yes, excatly. I also dont think the film could have had the lgbt theme and the racism/ second gen theme without subtracting from both.
Not gonna lie, just saw this movie today, I would have felt so much more emotionally invested if it was gay lol. Really wish they’d have any representation that isn’t just “Side character on screen for a couple scenes”
Yeaah, we're getting there, but it seems we have more to go in this regard
I watched too
Yeah
It was
i honestly agree that the last thing we need is another story abt straight ppl who can’t be together, but i do think i saw something about the creator writing this based on their experience as an asian immigrant coming to america and there being stigma abt race mixing or smth like that
Im starting to get really annoyed about that. People seem to be using it as a way to deflect my entire point like its a sheild or something. Not saying thats what you're specifically doing, but in general its come up alot and its frustrating because what am i gonna say "fuck his life experience i want what i want"
No im not, but i think you can have that life experience idea and it not be a one to one thing, case and point ember is a woman and the director is a man, right there thats a degree of separation so i dont see the issue.
Again not saying that your trying to bote back or sheild the movie from my point, i just dont see how its relavent all the time
@@ThinkBoxChris The thing is, it's not just a story about him, it's a story about his relationship with his wife. At least from my perspective, to rewrite something that I feel connects me specially with my Soul Mate and to reframe my relationship with her to represent a group that my relationship with her is not about, it'd feel like the ultimate type of unfaithfulness to her, that our identity with eachother, that she needs to be rewritten because our relationship is not representative enough. I realize this is fiction and not his real life story, but there is a point where this story means something to you and there's a point where the story doesn't, and where that is is different for everyone, I can only speak for myself that if I wrote a story dedicated to my relationship with my Soul Mate and ripped out our relationship dynamic entirely, I would feel I'm ripping out the heart of the story (my love for her), and at that point, it's no longer my story to tell. Of course it's okay you want what you want, but the director also has to tell the story that they want, as an audience we are going to have to come to the conclusion of whether we connect to it ourselves or not (and let me tell you, I actually did not with this one, I haven't even seen a movie for an entire week since this came out I connected to it so poorly), that's where we can come in to tell our own stories, not every story will connect with everybody, that's fine we all have to tell the stories that mean something to us, and for everybody, that's a different thing, that's what makes the industry so interesting.
@r-giireactions2235 i understand its about him and his wife im not saying its not, but he's already flipped the genders of the people the story is about, why not get fun with it is my point. I get not everyone is gonna connect with everything, but its still possible to try new things and experiment with dynamics. For example if i wrote a story and told my soul mate he was a woman for the story, itd still mean something to him even though its not pur exaact dynamic. I think his wife would have gotteb the same point if they did what im saying in the video
@@ThinkBoxChristhe genders being flipped in the story doesn’t change much. Just because Ember is a woman does not mean the director still couldn’t paste his experiences onto her. It is still a straight romance otherwise. Making the story gay takes away the personalisation of what he wanted to do with it, and it also takes away the message of the struggles he had with having an interracial relationship growing up. This movie is relevant since it’s STILL a problem in many families. Making it gay would’ve taken the focus away from his struggles and made the movie go into a whole new direction, which the director has no experience with and it reduces how personal the story is to HIM.
@justateapot3847 no it wouldn't of, it didnt have to veer off into homophobia or anything like that, it could have very easily stayed on point about the interracial dating and all that. It being gay would not have needed to complicate that at all.
Also your argument doesnt make sense on the flipping part, its already different and hes placed himself as the woman how is that any different then if he'd just mad his wife a guy and stopped there? Hetero and homo relationships are nearly identical on their interactions, not every couple is the same but the general overlap is strikingly similar when you get down to it. If they'd just consulted someone nothing would have needed to change story wise is my point
I’m just gonna say it: I think elemental is good as it is now. I don’t think it “needs” to be gay or meet these quotas like it’s a required thing. All Pixar wanted to do is tell a good story and that’s what they do. Plus honestly whenever there is a lgbtq show or movie it’s ususally the fandoms that turn me off. My main problem with the owl house is that it has one of the most snarky, gatekeeping, passive agressive fandoms I have ever seen
(Btw yes I am bisexual so I have a say in this discussion)
I stopped watching the owl house because it just got boring, regardless of how good the ships are.
As for this movie, good on you im glad you love it as is i do too, i can still wish it was able to hit me a little harder. I said should not needed in the title its not a requirement its more a request if that makes sense
As a straight person, do we not have a say in it? Just want to know if I do say anything...
Thank you for asking, and in my comments section as long as your not rude or harassing anyone you can always have a say.
@ThinkBoxChris Thanks man. I won't be rude about anything dw. 😇
Thank you for the reassurance, i appreciate it.
Whats your thoughts on this
It doesn't really NEED to be gay considering this was based on the creator's life and what they went through... Gay isn't the only representation that's needed...
I never said it needed to be i said ot should have been. Secondly 9/10 people arent gonna look that up so while its touching if you dont know that it just seems like an immigrant dating a local story. To counter the other point its about beings made of different elements not races of people, so that aslect isnt applicable. While racisim is still apart of the movie the actual race is obvuscated in service or the setting. If it was about people youd have a point. Im not erasing anything and im not saying its not valid im just saying both can coexist and the fact they didnt is a miss oppertunity
Wade have Non binary siblings who Have a Girlfriend
tbh even with losing out the international market and boycotting I'm pretty sure the movie would've made way more money if they made it LGBTQ+ from people actually being interested in seeing the movie instead of thinking it would be generic as fuck.
Thank you thats what ive been saying. I didnt find it super generic, but still yes thank you!
This is a complicated thing.
On one hand, yeah it wouldn't look as generic and catch the attention if people. On the other hand, this would be the definitive test of how accepted this things are in society, because who knows if parents will bring their childs or if some adults will feel confortable watching it.
@@diegocaceres3475yeah that’s what I’m thinking it’s prob like one of those things where it’s a children movie so they didn’t want to put something that usually parents like to tell children in case it is their first exposure. When you think like this you understand why they didn’t do it, after all this isn’t for adults
@diegocaceres3475 if grown adults are uncomfortable seeing two beings made of different elements kiss or hold hands because they use the same pronouns then i have questions for them. Hell i have questions if its two people they find uncomfortable doing it.
As for kids, i get protecting them but from what, love acceptance, a different point of view? Idk i just wish i had a movie like this with a gay couple as a kid
@arjunbaweja7755 at some point you gotta just tell them about it though. Im around toddlers all the time and ive never had to explain my relationship to them and if they ask i just tell them its like their parents and move along. Im aware the movie isnt souly for adults but they know their audience and they know how we are were nkt asking for a lot just a movie about us you know?
Doesn't your argument work both ways? Nothing would change regardless of pairing. It makes 95% of the population cry just as much as it would make you if they were gay, so on and so forth. You gave reasons for "Could", not "Should" as the video title suggests.
I guess the tipping point is that it came from the author's experiences, so changing the pairing would go counter to that. If he were gay and was made to write a straight pairing movie then you'd have a point but that isn't the case.
Im getting really tired of prople bringing up the author like its a smoking gun, hes ember in the flim hes already changed the dynamics. I get its about him and his wife and im happy about that, and i dont wanna take away from it, but people seem to forget he's already changed things so my take isnt that fare removed. Everyone loves these two and he made his stand in a woman why is me suggesting they just change one of them such a bad thing. Actually come to think about it this novie was gonna be a lot gayer but disneys ceo said no, a lot of pixar films have that problem actually.
Regardless woth this video i was being selfish i really dont care about how the other 95% of people reacted this is my take on the movie and franky im tired of caring about everyone else as if i dont matter. I think it should have been gay and that's the long and short of it. Agree with me or not i just am so tired of people acting like the simple act of wanting it is wrong somehow.
@@ThinkBoxChris It's fine both ways, didn't imply yours was the wrong take. It's just as valid as any other. What I'm saying is that you argued equally for both sides. If this element (heh) doesn't matter either way then... it doesn't matter either way.
This is why the word "Could" rather than "Should" in the title seems more appropriate. Btw my 95% made-up percentage was about straight people, not people who disagree with you. Related to your point of "If protag had the same sexuality as me it would hit me harder and I'd score it perfectly", again the argument goes both ways, so in theory for the majority straight people this film hits them harder.
Now, if the CEO said no to that aspect of the film your stance has more power. Then again it's Disney, removing and/or diminishing black characters from posters in bespoke markets, not changing their pretend-pride flag in their Saudi twitter account, between other misdeeds of massive corps. Ethics are beyond them.
@Highlaw thats fair, sorry if i came off weird there it was super early in the morning and i was really tired.
And to your main point, your right it technically doesnt matter, and im not angry or hurt its a straight couple i just missed that full on connection by like 2% you know. If the director is happy with it im happy for him, its just something that stuck in my head since the intital teaser trailer. I just wish we had more mainstream rep then wre given these days.
Again im sorry if i seemed snippy todays just been really long
I personally like the movie as it is, i don’t think that genders really matter in this movie as it would have been the same.
Thats kinda my point it doesnt matter to the story, so why didnt they do it
@@ThinkBoxChris do what? Turn them gay? It would have flopped the movie even more and it technically already is bc they are different elements
How does them being different elements contribute to it being a flop? And take out money for a minute just pretend for a second money isnt a factor. What would making them gsy do to the story?
@@ThinkBoxChris i didn’t say that 💀
I guess i misunderstood. Its a short comment so forgive my confusion its still early whete i am.
I suppose you meant that them being different elements is analogous to them being gay? If not please elaborate
I respect your opinion, but I don't agree. This movie being gay would not have made it better honestly, it could have been gay, but that wouldn't have made it better. And honestly, when I hear a movie or comic or show or whatever, whose prime focus is about representation, I just assume it's bad because typically those movies focus on representation and advertisements rather than making an actually good story. There are good stories with representation, don't get me wrong, but it's just so common to see media focus so much on representation that they completely forget about making the story entertaining. Invincible I would say is a good comic and show with representation. Stuff that is bad with representation are High Guardian Spice, Velma, Primos, Lightyear, and I am not Starfire; and I think we can all agree that those 3 shows and 1 movie and comic are really bad in general. Those are my thoughts, I am asexual, but am not part of the LGBT community because I just don't really care about representation, doing marches, or making it my personality. I don't really care about seeing asexual representation in films, if I see a crazy guy or jerk that is hard to love but harder to hate, I just go "Oh my God, he's me!" Or a gamer or nerd, "That's me!" I am a gamer, the most oppressed group of all, and the only label I will accept being called.
Thats the thing though im not making it about representation im just saying the story about a first gen immigrant and a local person dating would have been nice if it was. The story doesn't have to change to reflect that small tweak. And lightyear wasnt about representation it had one character who was a lesbian and if you miss the conversation talking about it its not really there.
@@ThinkBoxChris Fair point. I just don't think this small change to Elemental would have made it better or worse is what I meant.
@Gaminboi2864 understandable im just at the point where i wanna start asking for more and not feel bad for it. Not saying your doing that, just that its where im at
I'm sorry to tell you this, but purposely wanting to change a key part of the story just so that we get some representation feels so wrong, considering this movie is based on the director's real love story. Also being mad at the movie just because it is not gay doesn't feel right with me, there are many gay films out there, this one just doesn't happen to be one of them. Being dissapointed at the straight director just because he wanted to write straight characters, the ones that are supposed to be him and his wife, is just not right.
Who said i was angry at the movie? Im angry at not being seen by the world and having to pretend to see myself in things not the movie or director.
And its not a key aspect of the story, its her gender not the plot not the meaning it has to him or his wife its literally a cosmetic and vocal change at the end of the day. I really don't see an issue with that.
He made a movie with him and his wife in mind, people do it every day. First off i didnt know that while writing this but even if i did who cares? People pull from life experiences all the time and changing an unintrosive detail like this doesnt matter at the end of the day.
@@ThinkBoxChrisIf it doesn't matter why caring so much about it then?
@gerardol3449 short answer, because we have enough heterosexual cis gendered people as the main characters and frankly changing it to not be the case is good. Doingbthe reverse is bad, thats as simple as i can make it
@@ThinkBoxChrisCan I get mad at the director for not making the characters have a distinct cuban nationality? Or for not making them have some sort of condition like autism? I am also tired of having very lacking, poorly written representation in media, but the reality is that there just so happen to be people that are not autistic, cuban or homosexual, and people have all the right to write about those characters, specially if the story itself is based around yourself and you want it to be as accurate as possible.
@gerardol3449 im well aware people dont have to pander to me nor do i expect them to, would i love it if there was a movie or show about a gay autistic polyamorous guy yes but im aware its not likly going to happen here soon. Im not stoming my feet and demanding people give me what i want im just saying we badse things on ourselves all the time, maybe id we can change one detail why cant we change others so the chore is the same but more people get to be seen? Maybe thats asking a bit much but idk it seems like a fair compromise to me
I'm honestly very intersted that you and many others were so invested in the romance. I honestly found it the weakest part of the movie, but i really loved the story of generational ideals and beliefs, and how you shouldnt feel shame in wanting your own life. That story hit hard for me, and i think i focused so much on that that i couldn't get too much into the romance. I do like this take on it being more gay, as you are right, not much qould have changed. Actually, I think the stick lighting scene with the mother would have had more impact if so with the "Well you cant because it wouldn’t work" and they then find a way.
I really like this perspective
Tbh I just glad to see a heterosexual animated film. Everyone is free to have their own opinions but I personally don't want to see this movie have a gay main couple
Snow white, Aladdin, beauty and the beast, Hercules, tangled, frozen 1 and 2, princess and the frog, should i keep going cause i can list more?
Why would you not want it to be gay, you have hundreds of thousands of options we dont
@@ThinkBoxChris the timing and the problems thatre going on in the outside world is the first reason. People would just straight attack the movie just because it's gay. there's a crap ton of controversy involving that. I personally like the movie the way it is because how it connects with a lot of people especially a character like wade. Yeah there's a lot of straight movies but look at the remakes their crappy rushed products with no emotion their just shells. The movies are so bad we don't care that they have the same couple. Do I think there should be more movies involving gay people? Yes everyone has a right to be heard but this movie in my opinion doesn't need to have that
@@ThinkBoxChrisPeople wouldn’t want it to be gay because they can have their own opinions wdym????
@superghostsonic6967 i get people eould attack it, but much like a dog nipping at you the more you bite back or tell them no the more they stop doing it. Flipping tables at tables being flipped is the right thing to do.
And good on you for not seeing a need for it in this movie i dont need it either i want it thats the thing im trying to get at. No story needs to be gay or straight or bi or trans but people want them and the want is so deep it needs to be felt. This movie didnt need to be straight, but it was and while it bumbs me out a tiny bit thats really it. I just think more people should bite the bullet
@@ThinkBoxChris yeah I agree thst everyone deserves to have equal representation as long as its not forced and I feel a lot of communities do that. I think once they do that we'll have a good entertainment industry. Glad we were able to get on the right page and see and respect each others opinions
I respect your opinion but i'll have to disagree for 2 main reasons :
First is that it's Peter sohn's letter for his parents that reflects his life as a first gen immigrant.. if disney made the main characters gay it would be forced representation and it would detache the director from writting a story based on his experiences. (and let's not forget about the marketing that didnt like that movie already and made such a bad impression about this movie).
But also it was made to make it relatable to all immigrants (that is probably why you did not find it relatable most of the time). As a first gen immigrant from belarus parents that moved to france I have NEVER encountoured a movie that made me relate THIS MUCH to a movie. Usually when this type story is told it's an african/african american, latino or asian immigrant in america (or france in my case) and nothing else; and it is never generalised as much as in elemental. Most problems the movie tackled : I felt it too in a deep level , things I have experienced and still do to this day.
Even the romantic plot I have felt it, even if i'm single : ''elements cannot mix" I have and probably others too have heard a variation of this , for me it was "don"t date black/muslims/middle eastern/american[...] people" for asians the stereotype is ''only marry asians'' (so what the director experienced) and so on... Which is something that I think is mostly told to daughters and less and lesser to the sons.. and due to that specificity + that it's tied to our real world , the argument of making the characters non-binary wouldnt work because then it's not much of an immigration story but a zootopia n2 about prejudice but instead of animals it's elements.
The sexuality has nothing to do with it even if ''boys can"t date boys'' is similar to it, the immigrants, and I mean a VAST majority of immigrants finnally have their representation and not just a select few since they do not target a specific country and a specific nationality, it's almost all of them.
You can be lgbtqa+ in your native country and towards an another nationality, but rascism and xenophobia only cares about your nationality, religion or skin color.
If you can't see your self in the movie it is ok you don't need to ask to have more from the studio , each movie from pixar is slowly pin poining a different demografic and one day it will be pure lgbt rep' you just have to wait... (besides should all movies be relatable to be enjoyable? because I dont think a movie about live toys , ants or even living cars or planes are relatable as much as it's enjoyable :/)
But i'm glad you still loved the movie regardless of its theme !
EDIT : typos
EDIT n2 : id like to add that your video made me really uncomfortable and it felt xenophobic, there are planty of small creators that do really good lgbtq+ content with different themes with gay main charcter but less of them make good stories about immigration... So it just feels like you dont care about people and only about your self while spitting on immigrants.
Im sorry your take away was that i dont care about immigrants and their struggles, i try very hard to be mindful of other people and their lives, almost to the detrement of my own. my grandfathers on both sides of my family were immigrants to this country so while im not a first generation immigrant ive heard alot about the things they went through when i was little. However i think your short changing the movie to only be about the immigration aspect, ember is more than that and ive actually delt with her main conflict before.
My dads a carpenter he started his own business and wanted me to take over one day and i really really did try my hardest to do it because it was his dream, but i couldnt its just not who i am and i felt very seen by that aslect of the film. I dont broadcast this stuff because its not a huge part of my life, if it is to you thats great and im glad you were able to get more out of it than i was.
I only focused on the sexuality stuff and gender politics since its what im most comfortable in, with that being said i dont see how me saying it wouldnt change anything is wrong since ember would still be an immigrant and her struggle would still be about the family legacy. And i say that in all earnestness i wanna learn.
And while yes plans toys cars and elements arent super relatable on their own, none of the films before this were a romance either, and thats the big difference to me.
@@ThinkBoxChris The movie is indeed much more then that and it tackles so many themes that it relates to everyone in a human level;
but your video and the way you said it really pushed away the immigrant side of the story as if 'they have enaugh representation, so fuck them' as if a heterosexual immigrant has even less importance to you then a gay human being (and immigrants are usually already treated like animals). And this is what I get from what you say , perhaps it is totally not what you want to convey but with your arrogance and subtile xenophobia this vidéo and everything you have said in the comment sections (let it be this one or towards others) simply isn't acceptable even if you want the world to revolve arround your interrest , you simply just had to accept that not everything is for you , just like I accept that most movies have romantic plots even if romance repulses me to the point where I get angry and pissed when it is shown (let it be heterosexual or lgbtqa+)
if the sexuality stuff is your jam then feel free to talk about it and why not promote unknown comics, cartoons,books, games,series or obscure movies with the main protagonists being gay or the story is lgbtqa+ friendly; ; I even got one for you : Nimona. Then youd tell what the author(book)/writters(movie) did right or wrong.
No one is stopping you from doing that and that would be better then your highly offencive xenophobic subcomments.
@PGiChristine i never brought up the immigration thing in the movie besides explaining that she is, its not that i didnt care it just didnt fit into my point. I never once said fuck them in regards to immigrants it never entered my head through any of these discussions, i was saying we have a lot of father daughter stories from Disney thats all i can think of.
I need to make this abbundently clear, i do not have any ill will or lack of concern for immigrants or any other minority, when i say i dont get why this had to be straight, thats it full stop nothing else factors into it but that simple question. I never even once implied i didnt care about the immigration aspect in fact i found that rather touching.
Also im curious why you find me arrogant, im confident in what i say but i try not to be an ass about things and i often try to explanations on conversations with people. Again im sorry im just trying to learn
Ok so first of all, I'm gay myself! And Imma come out (pun intended) and say it: I'm a fan of Luca not having any romantic aspects in it!
The director said that while people from the community are more than welcome to relate to the movie and its themes, he also confirmed that he had no intention of making the movie a romance at all, that's why I appreciate that neither Luca or Alberto or Giulia had any feelings for the other, they're all just friends... AND I LOVE IT!! 🥰 We need more platonic love representation in media!
Now for Elemental, while I agree that making both Wade and Ember men would've made for a bigger message about acceptance, a good chance of giving gay men more representation for a change (instead of the lesbian couple in the background) and made a good chance for Ember to have some good Hades references! I'd say that it wasn't that necessary, like when you say, "what was the point on them being straight?!" I'd say, "What was the point on making them gay?!"... Idk, that's my opinion at least... Don't come at me! 😅😁
For luca im not saying its romantic their 12, im saying they like each other the way 12 year olds do and are figuring shit out. As for the movie itself its one big old day alagory by accident. Ik the guy didnt intent it to happen but it did like way harder then i think even i realized initially.
As for elemental the question why does it need to ge gay is that it doesnt, but it would have been nice to have it. It being a hetero couple doesnt add or subtract anything other then personal aspects of things. But i would argue that making the devult none hetero for a minute in pop culture would be great for a change
@@ThinkBoxChris Didnt the team and director even in a not recorded presentation say that cause disney does blacklist fast. Ad itsthe oldest book to show extremely overt something but not name it to be censored. Probably here.
And they are 12 figring that out. No way that was not romatic or not intentional there
@marocat4749 exsactly he was obligated to say it under contract and would have been black listed otherwise. And after his contract was up he was like "not my intention but go with it if you feel"
You gay people already get enough representation already don't need to keep trying to force your views into our beloved aspects of media and just go on with your day, if there end up being no more gay people in movies, shows, and games then fine don't freak out because it's not that deep
None of us are freaking out, were just having a conversation. You're the one seeming to be in a tizzy
WALL-E is a genderless couple not non-binary, non-binary and genderless are different
I know, but it was the closet i could use as an example for a they them couple as i could get. Its not exsactly 1 to 1 and i knew thar writing it, but they helped my argument
my brother in christ what kinda ass backwards logic is that 💀💀💀
"If theres no reason for them to be straight why not be gay" LMAOOOO
There's no REASON for them to be anything. And their existence as a straight couple doesn't need to be justified with plot relevance to you or to anyone else. The creator is straight, this is his story, he made it in a way that he feels most connected to. Do you think he would give a shit that you don't feel as connected to it because it's straight? No because this isn't your story.
If both of them being the same gender doesn't change anything, then by that logic you should be happy with the movie as it is. Because them being a straight couple doesn't change anything either.
First off, not catholic so... leave him be. Second
I really dont care if he cares about my thoughts on it, odds are im never going to meet the man and i wasmt even thinking of the director when i made this, they honestly never popped in my head. And yeah theres no story reason for them to be straight, theres no reaso for them to be gay either. Im not saying theres this need for it what im saying is that if its not important change it around so we dont get the same thing every time. Also keep your line of thinking in whenever someone makes a gay couple that you dont click with.
I love how no one hears the 9/10 i gave it, i loved this moved whole heartedly its just the main couples genders kept it from being perfect. I dont know how thats hard to get for some people. Not like im saying its trash for not having this element. In fsct im one of the more positive reviews ive seen
I think you are absolutely right. It's a movie that misses on a great opportunity for representation and storytelling.
If they had the courage to go ahead, this movie would have had a huge impact on many people.
Thank you, that means a lot. And i agree it would have done so much for people
I don’t care about representation, I care if it makes a story better
It def would have lol
The thing is, pixar DOES want to create lgbtq stories, but disney wont allow them to do so, this is a letter that pixar employees wrote:
“We at Pixar have personally witnessed beautiful stories, full of diverse characters, come back from Disney corporate reviews shaved down to crumbs of what they once were. Nearly every moment of overtly gay affection is cut at Disney’s behest … Even if creating LGBTQIA+ content was the answer to fixing the discriminatory legislation in the world, we are being barred from creating it.”
Well thats depressing
@@ThinkBoxChris It really is, isnt it?
proably why luca cant be confirmed despite being in text clear.
Chad Disney moment
isnt disney supposed to be LGBTQ friendly or some shit? just goes to show these mass companies dont give 2 shits about that and just want you money. Honstly sad.
I just feel like the notes of having an non heterosexual were all in this movie to the stigma they both would feel being together and the way ember has to act when around her parents when asked about wade but still loved the movie ❤
Yeah i can see that makes sense 😊
Haven’t seen the video yet. And I haven’t seen Elemental yet. But I actually assumed it was gonna have some gay theme to it. I got SUCH gay vibes from Wade based on the trailers
He honestly should have been but nope its a heterosexual relationship which is such a shame
@@ThinkBoxChris but it's a story about the director and HIS life, altering a story someone wants to tell because it lacks representation feels wrong, I'd rather not go about critiquing people's stories for not meeting our expectations.
@Maverick_K64 ember is a woman how is that not already tweaking the story? Its BASED on his life but its not a one to one thing, why does that change anything. And what else critiquing if not talking about wither or not something meets our expectations? I gave it a 9 out of 10 i still loved it this one asoect thoigh would have sent it over the top is all.
@@ThinkBoxChrisit doesn’t matter if Ember is a woman. It does not matter, since as far as I can tell, the story is not about sexism nor does her being a woman affect the core theme of it, which is an interracial relationship struggling due to family and cultural differences. You are missing the point so badly here. It being gay would’ve changed the entire THEME of the movie. The director changing the gender of the character he relates to doesn’t change anything as the romance is still heterosexual. Tweaking minor parts doesn’t change the themes elementals wanted to explore. LGBT issues was not apart of it.
@justateapot3847 i ask again how would it have changed it? The story is about a child dealing with family legacy and dating someone of a race their father doesnt approve of. In what way would that need to change if ember was a guy? Im legit asking because all your saying is that it will change it but not how.
Also how did sexisim get brought into this?
And like you said if ember being changed to a woman didnt affect it, why would her being a man or wade a woman affect it, its getero because the characters in it are a man and a woman thats it changing that wouldnt have really done anything as far as i can tell. You can have gay characters and it not be about homophobia
If it was gay it wouldn't sell in China and that's a big no-no for greedy companies
Im gonna say this in the nicest way i can in regards to homopbic bull shit people use to maintain the status qoue, fuck china's government. We need to stop cowing down to them for fear of a lack of profit, gay things make money all the time regardless of region
the couple in the film were supposed to be representing the director's and his wife's relationship and so there woudn't really be possible to have a leading lgbtq+ couple but it still would've been nice to see it happen
I mean, the director and his wife aren't water and fire right? So it wouldn't have been hard to just make Wade and Ember either both men or both women, especially since apparently Wade's supposed to represent the director's wife anyway and she's not a man.
@@47ratsinahoodiewere did he say that wade is supposed to represent the directors wife
@@levicarpenter5509 The director's half of the story matches Ember's, so his wife would be represented by Wade
Its based on how he met his wife, if hes ember wade has to be his wife.
They released a movie about a romance with social stigma *in the middle of pride month* and made it about a straight couple
They really did that, yeah... wow how did i not put that togeather thank you
You don’t own June lil bro cry about it
@@supercoolman69420 No one here is crying.
What??? It was released then but not made then. And summer and early winter are the best times to release a movie. It truly has nothing to do with pride month
@frgal1336 hey don't be like that, it was a joke
Making a bad movie LGBTQ+ wouldn't make it better, it would make people say the reason the film was bad was the diversity and make them even more afraid of doing something like that in the future
But the film isnt bad, its good actually and handles uts thenes well. People just didnt want to go see it because it'll be out on disney puls in a few weeks
I dont really feel a need for this movie to be gay. That kinda feels unessacary. Im a bisexual guy so i always feel represented in movies in one way or another. But this movie feels like it might've been bigged down if they. Did what Disney normally does when they do gay characters. But i understand to a certain degree about gay people not feeling represented. But also as a fair counterpoint, most of tbe world is full of straight people. Either way, im really glad you liked the movie still.
If people can say they don't want to watch Lightyear or Stange world because of gay people, we should be able to say the same about straight people
Thank you! Thats the attitude we need going into the second half of the year
Damn you hate your parents, imagine if they were lgbtq++ you wouldn't even exist.
Go with that, I mean it is not like you’re the minority and pandering to your communities have only lost companies money because you don’t put your money where you mourn is. Have fin
You can say that though, that’s your opinion. It’s not like it’s prohibited or illegal to say that, if you feel that way about a movie just say that. Yes, people will get upset with your opinion, but people also get upset about the people who say they won’t watch a film if it’s gay.
@MrSophire i mean i do, i buy gay stuff i watch gay stuff i do gay stuff. Also straight people can buy and watch gay things too, we do it with straight stuff all the time. Why not put your money with us rather than against us? Maybe then corporations will actually care about us
Yep, seeing a corporation stop chickening out for once and actually give us representation as the main focus, front and centre stage would of given me a lot of joy
It's interesting too, because a lot of the time they'll back themselves into a really weird mid point, in which the homophobic right will be "persecuted" because of a 2 second gay scene, but LGBT people will be wishing the 2 second gay scene was...more then 2 seconds...Which just leaves nobody happy, so to me, it doesn't even make sense in business
It’s not that Pixar’s doesn’t want LGBT in their films, believe me they tried, it’s just that it really difficult with Disney being Disney and the few times they allowed it, it was done dirty.
@IamTheY2KBug i agree like why do it if your not gonna go more out with it
@damonlam9145 now that ill cop to and it sucks.
They did that in Strange World
I dont really think they needed to be gray, because truth be told, the story is’nt about that. It is clearly about racism, not gender. The conflict inntre movie is that her father doesnt want her to marry Someone of another element, so making them gray on top of that feels distracting. So if they went the gay route, they should drop the racism, and the movie would be very different
But then your chsnging the plot. My point is that because the movie is about racisim maling it gay shows that gay people have pther issues. It doesnt make it distracting when the whole point is about something else. I went out of my way to say that homophobia isnt our only problem in life so making it that way in media is really bad.
I gotta say, I've never been more in love with a Pixar story than I am with Elemental. I'd even put it alongside the golden year greats such as Toy Story 2, Monster's Inc, Finding Nemo, and the Incredibles. I'm not even joking, that's how much I loved this movie. It may surprise many to know that I'm a sucker for animated romance movies, which is my favorite kind of animated movie, and the romance in this film feels like something you'd never expect from Pixar. What the main Walt Disney studio is known for, I feel Pixar did way better in a heartbeat when it comes to the romance department. Despite how cliché the movie is as a rom-com, I feel that the story builds and sets it up so incredibly and realistically. Ember and Wade are officially my most favorite animated movie couple of all time.
I've gotta be honest and say that I desperately hope that Elemental gets some kind of Disney channel sequel series, so we can explore more of the evolution of Ember and Wade's relationship, as well as build more of the world even beyond Element City. If that doesn't happen, then I've got a lot of fan fiction to write. Lol.
So nice to see others enjoy it as much as I did, the amount of hate this movie got is heartbreaking tbh
Omg yes me too!! I feel the exact same way as you do. Elemental spoke to me so much, it made me feel so many different emotions. I still can't stop thinking about it. I am also a sucker for romance stories. Ember and Wade are so freakin adorable, I wanna cry everytime I see them. I teared up a few times during the movie. God it was so good I can't get over it. I'm so sad it's not doing well in the box office, people need to give it a chance
nothing is more manly than a man in love with a man
holy fuck what day and age are we living in
Is that a good or a bad thing in this comments instance?"
@@ThinkBoxChris bad
@ShadowSorceryFTW why though
I am bi myself and support LGBTQ but i disagree with you. I still enjoy seeing normal hetero couples the same as all the years i've been alive. Sure a movie that includes LGBTQ as their main chars can be nice, but i honestly like the 2 main chars in Elemental how they are. They're adorable together and period.
I agree they are adorable and i love them, im not saying i dodnt enjoy myself i just think having that element would have made me click more with it.
I really don't think they should have been gay. We really lack lately good-written love stories between two heterosexual people. Representation is one thing, I don't think we need it in every single movie that comes out. A movie about heterosexual love stories is something I really haven't seen lately in cinemas (except maybe Little Mermaid but that's a cash crab for me). I personally don't mind the lack of LGBTQ+ representation but if it is really that important for some, they could have made one of the side characters homosexual (maybe someone from Wade's family). Like if I were to represent water in a human-like form it would be a boy and fire would be a girl, so perhaps I don't see it as a big problem.
You have hetero love stories all over the place what movies have come out these days with nothing but gay couples or about a gay main couple besides bros? I dont see much rep these days for me as the main couple
@@ThinkBoxChris I was talking more about cartoons (sorry for not being precise). The last I can remember was from Encanto but that was still a side plot and I haven't seen a film focusing in heterosexual love for a while now. So I'm glad they are the way they are. If the next film comes out with a LGBTQ+ couple and it will still be good I will not mind as long as the plot makes sense and the movie is at least bearable.
@piotrprochot fair enough
I agree. The fact that they are heterosexual has no real purpose, they could have easily been non-binary or pansexual. Since their genders don’t have effect on the plot. I think it would have added more if they weren’t a regular heterosexual couple. Would have fit with the message that, “Elements _CAN_ mix” much better. Great review and opinion! 👍
Thank you, thats really all i was trying to get across
but if it doesn't change if they were gay, what does it matter that they are straight then? I liked the arguments but i don't fully yet get why it has to change if it's not much for the story.
@@knollie20wayheal80 Because now it's acting like straight's the default and everyone should just be fine with it if it doesn't matter. If it doesn't matter, it can be anything at any time, it wouldn't always have to be straight with the excuse that "well if it wouldn't change anything if they were gay, what does it matter that they're straight?" If it doesn't matter, why are we so against it being gay? Why does it always have to be straight?
@@47ratsinahoodie well i wans't really being angry about gay or straight but it's a thing in stories if it makes something differnt you made a good change, so if the story was about some people finding it weird that two differnt elements mix not because race but because gender ye that be indeed something but sadly, it was a race story so it is gonna be straight for the money
Their elements so they don't really have a gender so there is no way to make them gay and the couple is supposed to represent the director and his wife
I kinda agree yeah as a lgbt adult myself. Im also starting to have a fictional crush on wade. Hes so cute and jiggly lol. He also got some fruity vibes. So yeah but either way i wouldn't mind if its straight or gay.
I feel like any couple could relate to wade and ember. As as trans Nonbinary i relate to ember even if shes a cisgender woman. I have anger issues and my partner calms me down. I can see alot of me and my partner in wade and ember.
We just work so well together, even if some people think me and my partner "are the same gender" or that "its gross". Well being straight is gross too. But... who cares? Its not physically hurting you if you see gays or lesbians kissing. Are you really that mentally ill of you get so pissed about gays or lesbians or trans existing?? Than thats a you problem. Worry about your own life and not someone else's.
The owl house was a great disney representation for kids!!!! To let them know we exist and its NORMAL to be lgbtqiapk. A long time ago Christians were very racist. Now they accept all races. So soon Christians will have to accept the lgbt. Its how evolution works. Bad people go away and more good people are born. Cus in the Bible God never said you cant be gay. That verse people bring up means you cant be pedo
There is a story roman soldiers used young boys for pleasure. So that verse means you cant be pedo. Now a days the verse has changed. Alot of the original verses have changed so can we really know what is a sin when fake Christans have changed the bible??? Jesus hanged out with 12 men and they washed eachother. 😅 im sorry but cisgender men now a days find it weird to wash eachother. Let that sink in and ask yourself:
*Should i be worring about other peoples lives and not my own? Should i be really wasting my time with the thing i hate???*
@@cajunking5987 not really
Sorry about the other guy, i was asleep, he's banned now. Im sorry you had to deal with him
@@ThinkBoxChris thanks man, i appreciate it
@@ThinkBoxChris what?
@rosies69 there was this really obnoxious "only two genders" and "only 3 sexualites" guy who was being rude to people so i removed them for going after people for basically just having discussions about those things or the movie
Note to self: When time travel is invented Bring Dana Terrace back in time and Replace Pixar's Toy Story With The Owl House and it'll maybe make more money than the first 3 Toy Story Films Combined at the box office, But They all still have to be G-Rated (Which can still have very scary and violent themes in them) and there's no LGBT until the third movie because it's released over a decade after it's prequels (Which is the excuse for why it had a long "hiatus") while the studio makes other high quality original animated films during that "hiatus".
I find it funny you compare yourself with Wade because he's a chill kind of guy and right now in your video and the comments you're responds sounds aggressive and like "NO, it needs to be GAY in order to be The PERFECT movie!" and "The director SHOULD have talk with GAY couples and made it a gay movie." But that's just my thoughts about you that your definitely NO Wade. Happy Pride byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Id like it to be gay and if it was itd be a 10/10, but it doesnt need to be. The director could have talked to lgbt people but that wasnt my point, what i was getting at is that the immigrants making a new life in this city doesn't affect my point since the crux of the story is about elements mixing not gender
look, no hate, BUT as someone said on twitter: “the story is from it's directors past and relation with he's wife it's about him being a korean inmigrant falling in love with a american woman”
i would love to see a gay pixar movie, but elemental is fine the way it is.
just realized someone said this already. its fine though.
Im just gonna say it, it can still be that while still being gay. Its not some insermluntible hill its a bump at worst. Everything else is still based on their lives, that one element (lol) being changed shouldnt be something everyone's complaining about
@@ThinkBoxChris you DO have a point there
@mephone4Sbiggestfanreal thank you, thats comfort
I wish that Disney and Pixar would release a movie were it was just action and fun to watch without there needing to be a romance and the movie dosen't really tackle any big issue and is purely for entertainment
Zootopia, strange world, turning red, cars 3, finding nemo, toys tory 1-3, the great mouse Detective, chicken little, i can keep going. Romance is a part of life and all im asking is for one or two or even three that lets people like me and others in these comments feel seen and valued. Not everything has to be but itd be nice if some things were
@@ThinkBoxChris yes I do agree with that statement there should be more gay repersentation in big films you are right I don't think any animated Disney or Pixar movie has a romance based around gay people and I agree that elemental should have been gay or gender fluid witch would perfectally fit the theme
Ngl I kinda feel your point here, but I think the movie being gay would've stranged it from the first message they wanted to talk about, the racism. I'd love however to have a story similar to elements, but that talks about an *actual* lgbt couple. I'd truly love to have a movie that talk about us and only us, but I think a movie that wants to talk about race and the problems society has with it just wouldn't work, not only could people pass it as "they're just catering because they can, they don't even mean it" but also because the messages could overlap and lastly break each other. I truly wish we'd one day get a movie that is actually about us, a message about us, I loved your mentions of Luca here, because that's exactly how I feel about it, It made me BREAK when I saw it, and as it stands now, it's probably the closest and kindest take on an gay couple, or rather the experience of a teen/child with it that we've ever gotten
I can see your point on this, i just think having other themes besides us being victims or opressed because of being gay is needed more. I also dont like brining in the point of people would slag it off for being woke because its so vauge it basically means "it wasnt about straight and/or white people" people get upidy about dumb stuff all the time so I'd rather talk past them to people who want/need films like the one were discussing so they feel seen and heard. Like how we did with luca.
Thank you for this comment by the way, it really made my day. If im coming off rude i apologize my brain is fried atm from lack of sleep
I’m not saying we shouldn’t have other types of couples but it’s still ok to have heterosexual couples as well
Never said we couldnt have them but the ratio needs to be flipped for a while till we get a more decent pool of things
The strange world is such an incredible film, I loved every part of it. But the media seemed to hide it.? I only knew about its existence a week after it came out because I was gonna watch another film on the cinema. The marketing was trash. “Oh but since it is gay people are less open minded” the movie isn’t about being gay, it is just a couple that happens to be homosexual. The studios tend to ignore the gay films they put out there. Luca was only very well known because it wasn’t canon that they were going to be together, even tho we know they will. This leads us to hypocrisy, why make the film if you don’t want it to be popular?? I get it is for the props of it, like saying the company is LGBT friendly but it just doesn’t make sense. The marketing for The strange world was basically irrelevant, unfortunately, and they got mad because it didn’t bring money in, sure thing it did they didn’t announce it. But the small group of people that know about liked the movie. Is very well made, their relationship is lovable and not forced at all. But the company choose to kind of hide just so it was in their lgbt category. I get what you mean when you say you wanted this to be gay, but if it was probably the marketing would be small to none.
smdh the comments implying that a not-hetero relationship in media has to have a story involving homophobia/the struggle of not being straight is just ridiculous. we're trying to normalize it right? then why does it HAVE to involve a plot where it's like the real world and no one accepts it fully? i feel like that takes away the whole point of having representation in the first place. people go to media to escape the real world anyways who cares if there's no homophobia in ur pixar movie with a non-hetero couple?
This exactly this is my point thank you
I actually feel this way about Turning Red, as a Transmasc person I identify with Mei so much it would have so incredible if the main character was a trans guy it's a legit one of my most favorite movies but I feel like they missed such a great opportunity.
Oh thats intresting i never thought about mei being trans, that'd certainly make the owning the panda thing have more weight to it. I really like that idea now
Transmasc?
@@grAnita- Late af to this, but trans masc means, trans masculine. A trans person who probably isn't binary (So they may identify as non binary and or genderfluid for example instead of a man) but is presenting themselves as more masculine.
@@bobtheball5384 so it's like a trans person, but looks more like a men?
@granita6616 basically yes, its a trans person who shows more a masculine presentation
“Man is upset because the main movie protagonists werent Gay”
Upset, no, disappointed, yes. However even if i was upset what does that matter?
Awesome video dude, this really struck a core with me!
You know what reaally pisses me off about this movie? The fact that they cut the scene of Wade totally being bi 😭 in a deleted scene called "Dante's Challenge".
We could've at least gotten those crumbs BUT NOOO
Yeah ive seen that scene and i agree we should have gotten it. But overall the movies beautiful i just think it could have hit more if it had gone this route
Kinda feels like you need a movie tailored to your lifestyle specifically, which ultimately removes the quality of empathy we are suppose to experience while watching a film.
I disagree that this project would have been better per se if they made them gay…with how polarizing the topic of exposing children to the community has become as of this year, it would have done worse financially. Just look at Target 😔
One time yes i would like that, im not a woman im not a lesbain and im not a straight man, so yes one animated romance from a major studio would be nice. And im not ashamed to ask for it. Also im a very empathic person, like way more than youd think im just also autistic and find it hard to get into a movie all the time if their something nagging at the back of my head. Me crying at this thing or giving it a 9 out of 10 should tell you i got invested i just wanted to feel seen is all.
And i still dont get the exposing it to kids thing, we exsit we have children why cant they see their parents or themselves on screen either? And yeah the target thing is unfortunate
I watched it with my best friend/ex we're both non binary lesbians from different cultures/ethnicities
We both loved it and called it one of the queerest movies that aren't technically queer... It would have been so much better with gay or enby couple I agree for sure
People don't see it through that lense because our stories aren't told and that's infuriating
Yeah and its a shame because our stories are worth seeing and making. We aren't a liability or a problem to avoid
I love Elemental and have it in my top 5 of Pixar movies. Personally, I disagree that this had to be gay. I think it can work either way, and I personally prefer the confident girl-emotional guy pairing. I wouldn't have wanted them to change it. I think you were unintentionally glib and disrespectful in your Before Movie section when you acted as if Ember-Wade wouldn't have any stigma against them because they're cisgender and hetero. They actually have a stigma in this world because of how the society is structured.
I think you were right that Zootopia had more to do with "othering" and steretypes, but I think you make the same misunderstanding as a lot of people in thinking Elemental is about race. It's more an allegory for society accomodating immigrants. Ember says very eary on that the city isn't made with fire people in mind and it's because of this fire people generally are ostracized from the non-fire districts. The movie shows us early on why the city might have these policies. In Ember's first trip to the city, she burns down plants on earth people and makes water people boil just by being around them. Her anger also leads to her exploding. It's very understandable why the other elements on paper wouldn't want fire people around. Since there's a simple logistical reason why the city doesn't accomodate them, the problem is more synonymous to accomodating immigrants. Like in real life, it's not always easy to accomodate immigrants such as having a translation for every foreign language group. However, the movie uses Ember and Wade's interactions with the each other's culture to show how much each group can share and gain from one another. In that sense, the film is less saying "other elementals are wrong and fire elementals are right" and it's more so saying the society should accomodate fire people (immigrants) more because both the city and fire people will benefit by doing so. The interviews with the director Peter Sohn help show this is more of an immigrant story as he spoke about how the inspiration for this story came from his Korean immigrant family immigrating to the United States and facing stigma.
I like them as they are dont get me wrong, but id argure showing the same dynamic as a homosextual couple would have been nice to see. How many pairs of hetero couples that fit their mold do we have, probably more than i can count.
As for the immigration story, i dont see how thats not racisim or something similar to it. We see more often fire people being rude to water beings than the other way around, yes other elements are rude to them and its a back and forth which is more how racisim works irl. I agree society needs to acommidate immigrants more dont missunderstand me, that needs to be changed. Again though i dont see how me saying it should have been gay changes this, especially since the issue is based on race it shouldnt matter to this point.
And my point with bringing up them being cis and straight is that for most people who you date is fine if you meet those two passing requirnments and this movie could help break that mentality for people thats all i was getting at
@@ThinkBoxChris I think it would be nice either way. Just because this movie falls into the trope of a confident girl-emotional guy doesn't mean it's less interesting. What sets this film apart from others is how well it executes on that premise. Can you name me a confident girl-emotional guy pairing that was executed to a similar level of quality?
I think it's something similar to racism, but not exactly racism. It's a form of prejudice more akin to what immigrants faced for being a different ethnicity. I get that this distinction can seem insignificant, but I'd argue it's not. People have literally been criticizing this movie for handling the racism aspect poorly, because there is a logical reason other elements would keep fire elementals around certain areas. However, if they saw it as more of an allegory for accomodating immigrants (which is more accurate), then the analogy doesn't break down as much. In real life, there is a logical reason why society doesn't accomodate different language groups. Similarly, in Elemental, there is a logical reason the other elementals keep fire people out of certain areas. In both real life and Elemental though, it still sucks for immigrants that are essentially shut out of society. In gist, you're right that this is something similar to racism but I think it's important to be more precise about what this film is really about.
Gotcha, yeah that makes sense. I just thought it could've been a little better phrased is all. I agree with the actual point you were making there.
@ThePastAnalysis honestly your right the dynamic of them works, and the spesific way is gendered in that way is good. I have my wants but i agree there.
And thst exactly thats what im trying to get across, thank you having that set up snd back and forth makes sense. Every racist has a "logical" reasons for being that way it stills racism and its still sxummy
@@ThinkBoxChris Thanks for the dialogue. ^^ I completely understand where you're coming from.
Also, I completely agree on your racism point. Every racist thinks they have a "logical" reason for being that way, but it's just bullshit.
@ThePastAnalysis ofc any time, love doing these things.
And right such bullshit
6:49 ok… but… it isn’t made for you personally? This is a really, REALLY weird point to make.
That wording is really starting to bite me in the ass, what i mean is that i loved the movie but if they'd done this one thing it would have sent me over the edge
As a Hispanic girl in the lgbt+ comm,I fully agree with your point! I saw ALOT of myself in Ember,and love the love story between her and Wade and how it spoke to interracial couples,but damn…it would’ve been more relatable to me if they were gay huh?
I still think the film a 9/10 too. Only lost that one point cause (SPOILERS) I just wish they made the problem with the leak more dramatic and not just have it break open conviently in time for the climax lol.
Also,I gotta say that as someone who is not a romance fan at all,I LOVE THIS MOVIE SO MUCH I’ve been rewatching so many scenes😭I think the problem with most romance stories is that they just throw tropes here and there for the characters to get together. No actual connection can be formed like that so it ends up feeling artificial and/or boring to me. But like you said,bro,WE SEE THEM ACTUALLY GOING ON DATES AND TALKING PERSONALLY AND CONNECTING it’s sad that’s such a rarity in romance stories now from what I’ve seen💀
Right this movie is so good, and so nice. I wish we'd gotten this version but still great none the less
@LukeNightwalker nothing to cope over, we liked the film but we have our takes as to why it could have been better. And ya wrong im sorry
Not everything has to be gay, just take your equality and be happy, we don’t need to make gayness the centerspoke of every animated film
Its not the center of almost any film. People make it that way though because thats all they wanna talk about be it positive or negative
What equality are you talking about? Equality in films or equality in general? Because lgbt people have neither.
@@rosieg6989 Maybe move out of your conservative neck of the woods then
@@rykloog9578 You do know lgbt people are more likely to be kicked out of their home before graduating and become homeless right? Or that in many states it is completely legal to fire someone or evict them solely for being born lgbt, all this means that many lgbt people are below the poverty line and it costs money to move, so thousands of not hundreds of thousands of lgbt people are stuck in places that don’t few them as people deserving of equal rights.
It's so nice to find someone with such similar thoughts as me! I saw Elemental on June 20th and as I was watching I just kept thinking how much greater this would have been if it was a queer romance! It really did seem like a perfect opportunity that could have incorporated an LGBT+ component so well. I think adding the queer aspects would have meshed wonderfully with the other themes and concepts of the story. Ember was giving off very "not straight" vibes to me, I could totally see her being into girls. (Or it could've worked the other way too with Wade being into guys.)
Side note: While I thought the romance was done well for the most part, I would have liked more hints at the beginning that they liked each other in a romantic way because until Wade asked Ember out I didn't really get a romantic vibe from them.
Obviously i agree with the bulk of this. Although i get why they didn't click instantly given hes trying to shut down her family store
Right yeah just seemed a bit abrupt going from them clashing over that to him asking her out (but it's possible that there were more hints and I just didn't pick up on them since it was only the first watch and I wasn't analyzing everything super closely, also I'm aroace.)
@evelynnendgame5914 thats fair sometimes we just miss tose details its ok
People don't need more representation or whatever. I don't care about pushing a certain thing. It's utterly inconsequential. What we need are good stories that provide solid entertainment and can resonate with anyone without Pandering
Did you watch the video? Because the point im making is the movie is great as is bit theres no reason it had to be straight. Great story, just flip a gender and it woulda been steller.
Also i really hate this argument because nothing needs anything in stories, but we want to be seen why is that a bad thing. Pandering is when you call it out or do it out of obligation or begrudgingly im just saying if you do it for the sake of it its ok hell id argure just writing a straight cis couple then flipping the pronouns makes it so its as natural as possible since you wrote it with something your familiar with
i agree
@@ThinkBoxChris you just want same story done with different gender
Maybe find new stories that represent other gender norms and pronouns
@gaminginvirinch3339 pretty much yeah
❤ completely agree with you. I fell in love with the movie and saw my boyfriend and I in Wade and Ember . Teared up 3 times and cried once. Very beautiful story and the music was amazing.
Unfortunately it feels like no one can be satisfied by Disney now. Either its too much gay representation for some people or not enough for others. To be fair, it feels like the main reason why we don't get a gay couple front and stage in a Disney movie is because it won't make enough money (which admittedly it probably won't), yet their movies keep flopping anyway because they fail in other countries due to not removing what little lgbt stuff there is in it. This company just stays losing all the time no matter what they do and it's hilarious.
Thats kinda the vibe im getting, theyre trying to have their cake and eat it too and pleasing no one if they just either but the bullet or didnt do it id be fine with it but the in the middle thing is annoying
Yeah, you're one of the reasons why the entertainment industry makes unsincere gay representations.
How so
If they made Wade a woman or Ember a dude then it would feel like forced representation, which is what they’ve already done in the past. But if they did, it wouldn’t make sense to say “Elements cannot mix” and then have the meaning of the story be that they can mix because two people of the same gender can’t “mix” (if “mixing” in this case is having a baby”). I do feel like lgbtq+ needs more representation in movies, but I don’t think it fits with this movie.
7:33 Also I just wanted to mention that Wade’s mom is already named Brooke
Ok how would it be forcing it? If it was written that way thats nlt forcing it its just making it. And honestly the mixing not having kids thing would be really good way to paralle it. They adopt a cloud kid or a water and fire baby repectfully, thatd be dope.
And i forgot that, but still just name ideas
@@ThinkBoxChris
I guess that’s true, but I still think Disney would mess it up somehow. Anyways, I respect your opinions and I hope you and everyone else gets the right representation that you deserve.
@Cosmic_Lemon yeah they're not the best rn but getting more practice is the only way to do it better.
And thank you i hope so too
no tf it shouldn't
Ok.... why though?!
Wow… compelling argument 😐
i will get hate for this, you can even delete my comment, idc
pepole have opinions, and what im here for is to give one. I think the reason this movie shouldn't be gay is because of how many representation we already have (i'm part of the lgbt myself). Many shows, movies, series already have a good representation in them, for example Owl house, she-ra, idk. A animated movie that has a straght relationship in them is already a good concept and it focuses on how it is build (thats how i see it). I'm really attached to how the movie shows their feelings grow overtime and how natural it feels. The other thing it focuses on is the fact that they're both different from each other, in every aspect. Just because you see the stereotypes of ember, a woman, being shown to loose her temper, doesn't mean that isn't a representation on its own. I see myself in ember, i tend to loose my temper too in many situations.
My point being, if it'll get too many representation, it'll just be a movie about disney/pixar showing how they are supportive of everything.
in short, it's good as it is
(sorry if it doesn't make sense, english isn't my first language. Besides, i just wanted to speak from my point of view)
No no you did fine, glad you took the time.
I feel i need to point out that i never said ember was a stereotype i said from the look of the trailers she was in the post watch section i went out of my way to say she wasnt.
As for she ra and the owl house both of those shows are good but she ra has big issues with how catra treats adoura and the owl house kinda got wonky but the romance was good. Its not that we dont have rep but more is always welcome
@@ThinkBoxChrisanswering to the last one, i think in the case of elemental we already have enough. Not always more means better, and this movie already has some issues (forgot what they are, you get my point)
Most of the “rep we already have” you mentioned were tv shows, note films, and while it has amazing representation, being a tv show each episode was only really seen by 70k to 150k people upon airing while a Disney film that is marketed correctly is seen by close to a million people in opening weekend alone. A lot of those million people are kids, and so for lgbt kids an lgbt Disney film would help them know that they are not alone and that there is nothing wrong with how they feel, and for cis-straight kids it teaches them that different kinds of people exist in the world and that it is ok.
In short, no lgbt people do not have that much rep in films, and having more rep is important.
I think it would be cute if the main couple were LGBT but the thing is... there's so much controversy around having LGBT stuff in kids media. I personally have no problem with it and I think it's cute to have this representation but there are many people out there that do not agree with me, such as my mom. When my mom heard that there's a non binary character in the movie, she was not happy with that. She says that they're "forcing" this stuff onto kids and twisting their minds or whatever. I don't think she's right, they aren't forcing kids to be gay or change their gender, they're just SHOWING this to kids and letting them know that this exists and it's normal to feel this way. Or maybe she is right and them showing LGBT representation in a kids movie is bad... I have no idea. She's very pessimistic about a lot of stuff and sees these things as a bad thing. I wish I can explain to her that it's not a bad thing but I don't think she'll listen to me. I'm sure she's not the only person who feels this way. I wish there wasn't so much controversy about this and we can all just live happily :') I'd like to know your thoughts because I want a different perspective on this but please be respectful down there and don't cause any dumb arguments... please. I loved the movie tho and it's now my fav Pixar movie ever. It's just so damn cute and beautiful 😭 Ember and Wade have my heart, they're so precious. I want what they have please :( God I wanna see it again so badly, hopefully I can sometime. Anyways sorry for the long comment. Just wanted to get this out there. Again be respectful in the comments please and don't attack me or anyone else
First off I TOTALLY agree with you. Great movie as is, a queer couple would only enhance it.
I guess an argument to be made by keeping the genders can be on gender expectations. Girls aren’t allowed to lose our temper, boys aren’t allowed to cry (yet you can still make that gay because of the differing cultures). Yet Disney has already done both gender conforming and gender defying expectations stories. A girl inheriting the family business is cool in a sense. But a child not knowing where they belong because they always believed to inherit the family business while would actually fit better if they were male presenting or non-binary… so conclusion: make it gay.
Thank you i appreciate that
I went in expecting this to be a clickbait title, wow, weirdo 😂😂😂
What part of this weird, and how would it have been clickbait
It would have been cool if Wade was under the non-binary umbrella, non-binary, genderfluid, Agender etc., but had a masc lean. It would have show people that people under this umbrella don’t have to be 100% androgynous and some people are comfortable in their original bodies. This can also apply to Ember since she can change her for to some extent.
Pixar definitely is capable of making an LGBT-themed romance, since Elemental itself has a non-binary character dating a female character (granted, they're both water people, so apparently in this universe, race matters a lot more to these characters more than sexualities and gender identities.)
See right there, thats what ive been saying this whole time
ThinkBox Chris trying the "not whining about fictional gay couples" challenge (impossible)
Meaning?
I’m non binary myself Wades sibling is non binary I wish they got more screen time because they just get one line it would’ve also been nice to see the 2 main characters as homosexuals
If "it doesn't matter if they're straight", then why do you make a video explaining why they should be gay? I mean that won't fix a bad script.
My point is that it doesn't affect the story, its completely detached from the main point of the movie, mainly embers issues with her place in the world and their/wades budding romance.
Also i resent that i liked the movie alot as is
@@ThinkBoxChris The central axis of the film was emigration and how it affects it. The message seemed pretty bad to me,and although a gay relationship would make it more interesting, it would not improve the script, which seemed pretty bad to me. So I guess you're right on the one hand, and on the other hand that wouldn't change anything so it's pretty useless.
Why eas the scropt bad though, your just saying its bad because its about immigrants which comes off as kinda iffy at best
@@ThinkBoxChris No, it's bad by itself. I only said that the central theme is immigration . Although thinking about it, more than bad, the movie is mediocre, because it could have been much better, but not because of the immigrants or something
Ok but why is it mediocre to you what about it is lack luster? Im not trying to sound like a dick im legit just trying to peice this together
i read the sentence "should have been gay" in *NSYNC's its gonna be me tone
Hahahaha, alright you got me thats funny
Maybe one day Disney will grow a backbone or China will have a change of heart. Hopefully we get some good r63 fan art of either character
Imagine thinking that non intentionally making a character gay is somehow wrong. There is a unique sense of entitlement in thinking that every character had to be exactly like you for you to find them enjoyable; It makes me embarrassed to be a liberal in the modern day
@rykloog9578 no one said they didnt find the characters enjoyable, not even me. All i said was i wasnt as invested as i could have been. I still liked the characters and loved the movie.
Also what do you mean non intentionally making a gay character?
@@ThinkBoxChris typo; I meant “not intentionally making a character gay”
@rykloog9578 ok so again even with the correction i still dont get your point "thinking not intentionally making a character gay is bad" i dont think making a character gay intentionally or unintentionally is bad or good what you do with then is where i get my kicks. And this movie would have been great if it were about a gay couple, im not demanding it and i dont think lesser of the flim for it, i just like seeing gay characters thrive and be happy
Can someone tell me where are the guys in black and white animation from
Oh thats a short film i saw a while back called "pancakes" its super cute
@@ThinkBoxChris oh thank you
@hmmhmmm6924 np, i try to keep up with comments so people feel welcome and i dont let them turn into a sess pit that most comments can. Hope you like the short!
I am sorry but there is no Gay subtext in Luca or in Elemental. I know that because both are based on the writer's lives, and both are straight men.
I never said the was gay subtext in elemental i said theres no reason it needs to be straight.
As for luca idc who fucking wrote that or what that say thars one of the cutest comming to age things ive about lgbt kids ive seen in years. Regardless of what rhe director has said or weither or not hes straight or not its gay. You can accidentally your way into stuff like this, we say that about bad things all the time, why is this good thing any different?
@@ThinkBoxChris So delulu. So any two kids of same gender are automaticly gay no wonder you people are on pills
@@ThinkBoxChristhere IS a reason why it needs it be straight, and that’s because it’s a personalised story that is meant to represent a real life couple, which heterosexual.
@@ThinkBoxChrisLuca is confirmed to have been just a story about two friends rather than LGBT. What about Luca makes it “accidentally gay”?
@bruhboigame836 just the way they interact, and hoe they feel to and about each other. I could go on and explain it but i feel like itll fall on def ears
I always felt like there was something missing from the movie, this video made me realize that the leads being gay is what was missing for me
Thank you, that makes me feel seen. A lot of people disagree but have no other options besides "its a kids movie" to back it up
While i am not gay i loved the story the way it is i understand your side. However what i was wondering is some people were complaining about the nonbinary character that was in the movie so if they did the gay couple idea do you think they could have the same reaction or its different. Again im not trying to prove you wrong im just genuinely curious
I have no doubt there would be a backlash but i know that lgbt people and allys would have seen it more than people boycotting it.
As for lake its the fact their not confirmed as nb on screen and are only referred to as she/her thats gotten some people in the communities upset. And yes he/they and she/they nb people exist, but its hard to confirm that in this movie by virtue of the fact they only call them by she/her pronouns so they came off as lesbain rather than nb.
Assholes are just mad lake ecists at all and it erks me. Not saying your either your just asking for clarification and thats great
@ThinkBoxChris thanks for the information appreciated it!
The forbidden love trope feels like a mockery. Like straight people who thought, "What if love was illegal?" despite that idea being a reality for most queer people, then and now. It's impossible to write a forbidden straight love story without it feeling insensitive to queer people and their experiences, because it erases LGBTQ+ struggles in favour of a more cis/het approach to something not cis/het in nature. It's a mockery because cis/het people have never been vilified for being cis/het, yet the entire trope throws that out the window because nobody wants to give minorities a voice.
Exsactly thats Kinda what im getting at, and a lot of people tet to flip it into an argument of story structure or elements. Ive legit has people say that if its gay or must be about overcoming homophobia otherwise it's pointless. I could not see it that way if i tried because being lgbt has more struggles than being hated for it
@@ThinkBoxChris If people can't think of any other struggles queer people face then that's a problem. Representation isn't "homophobia is bad." it's "queer people are human and deserve to be treated as such just like you do." It's why I'm so grateful to shows like The Owl House that don't discuss homophobia and instead delve into problems that don't even relate to the characters being queer. It's so much more realistic and shows actual effort put into humanising non-straight characters. There's more to a gay character than being gay.
@MeemahSN i agree like for all its faults strange world dod that well and made it more of an adventure that had a gay character as its secondary lead. And i keep telling people you can do so much more but they just act like im asking for the moon when in reality im asking for a glass of water
You do realise just because 2 people are straight doesn't mean their love was always accepted. It's a trope as old as ancient Greece (Pyramus and Thisbe) and in real life couples could be prevented by marrying for reasons such as social class, caste systems, race and so on. In cultures where arranged marriages is prominent, couples may be prohibited to marry cause one of them is already promised to someone else or if one side is much poorer than the other.
Heck King Edward VIII had to abdicate his throne when he married a divorcee. On top of that everyone in the royal family had to have the Queen's (now the King's) permission to marry anyone. Harry had to ask permission to marry Meghan, the monarch could easily say no. Princess Ayako had to give up her titles and status to marry her husband.
The idea of forbidden romance isn't just a gay thing and I use words like prohibited/prevented very loosely. I mean their love wouldn't always be accepted which is what forbidden love is about. You're not being mocked or thrown away if someone decides to write a story about forbidden love between 2 straight people. And to claim its not cis/het in nature falls flat cause its about forbidden LOVE, th couple's gender doesn't have to be the reason its forbidden. And its not insensitive for others to write a forbidden love story about 2 straight people.
Its incredibly shallow and frankly dumb to assume just cause one is a boy and the other is a girl that their love will always be accepted by society or their family especially in fantasy settings such as Elemental. Especially with immigrant parents like Ember who clearly hold their culture in high regards. Its even more forbidden love cause the 2 can't touch eachother.
@chattynoir2934 all of your examples pull from history and the modern examples come from customs that we dont have in the west as prominently in the east your right those are muvh more common but even then theres usually an agreement the two will just go along with it and have real long on the side because they dont really have any other options. I've heard this exsact sinario from multiple people in that kind of arrangement.
However this was made by an american for a mostly american audience and in fact element city is basically new york that's the point. So yes in america cis straight couples are going to be seen as less problematic regardless of race and in fact the only characters who care in the movie are her parents and even they come around. Ember and wade even touch multiple times at the end so thats not a concern.
The movie is great i love it but it feels very shallow to see people kick up a stink about 2 20 somethings be chastised for dating when then they can tell their parents to go pound sand. Making it gay adds another wrinkle that would A be more true to life and B would speak to so many more people. Its not a strech to say any of that its also not a strech to say it feels cheap due to its pairings orientation
If anything they should have switched the two main characters genders. I much prefer when the guy is the hotheaded one and the girl being the laid back one.
I can see that, its a much less common dynamic and one thats pretty rife for comedy
@@ThinkBoxChris Yeah, could be just a me thing but idk I just love the dynamic when the male character is more hot tempered and the female character brings in that emotional support. Which funny enough I noticed it's like that more in real life than in fiction
@AndyOs thats cause it bleeds into the hetero normative angle that women are what clams the rage in a mans heart. Not that thats invalid its just done a lot and its often how straught couples are meant to act to a degree in pop culture. That attitude iis changing recently and while all love between consenting adults in vaild its smart to exam things
I don't know if this would sound bigoted, but personally I don't think Elemental should have been gay because it would have made their sexuality a spectacle, and would take away from the other hurdles within their character arcs. As a lesbian, I prefer when gay couples are portrayed as a sub-focus or hardly anything to gawk at. Since Elemental focused on messages of the fulfilment of immigrant parents' expectations and discrimination first, and romance as a sub-plot, having a same-sex relationship would've shifted the focus from their fundamental biases and differences to homophobia and forbidden gay love, you know? Maybe if the main plot was going on some kind of adventure or overcoming a struggle that just-so-happened to have a gay couple in it, then sure! A gay couple with fire and water would've been a bit too on the nose for my liking, although I probably would've still loved the movie for the main plot.
Honestly I dont see how that would benthe case. People keep saying you have to talk about homophobia if the main couple is gay and I really dont see how. You can totally keep the racial aspect and not worry about homophobia as a plot point hy simply adressing it. Embers dad not liking water people but still wanting his son to find a nice fire boy is all it would take.
The movie already is an adventure with a romsnce sub plot so again im a little confused why chabgung the sex would shift that in any way
@@ThinkBoxChris ahhh I see, I can see how those elements (pun intended hehe) would work under any other franchise, maybe it's my pixar paranoia but I feel like any gay, "destined to be apart" main relationship done by the studio would feel like nothing short of a spectacle, or a zoo exhibit 😭 but honestly the premise sounds interesting, as long as it's not handled poorly
@Sinnk_ i agree, as long as they just do it and not have it be based on home we should be good
Dude not everything has to be gay, we didnt have it in older films and those were great without it
Thats because we were more repressed and hidden from the world. We've been here since the dawn of time and thats not gonna change any time soon. No not everything has to be gay im not asking for that im just saying this specific property coulda have benifited from it.
Also get a new knee jerk reaction this ones getting old
Disney still has a chance for the possible sequel to be gay. Ember and Wade’s daughter or son, could be homosexual, for the love of god Disney I’m screaming at you to do this!
That would be big cute i love that idea
@@ThinkBoxChris thank you so much!❤️
The fact that you saw luca and immediately thought "Oh the kids must be sexually attracted to one another." means that you should probably head to the nearest FBI headquarter and sign up to be put on several lists.
I... didnt though, i said the movie was gay and that they like each other/are developing feelings for one another. Their 12 im not gonna suggest they're doing anything nasty. There is a BIG difference between liking someone, developing feelings for them, and having sextual desire for spmeone. Im more conserned you thought i went there or that you went there yourself
@@ThinkBoxChris I can't fathom how you think this somehow makes it better. Seeing two 12 year olds being friends and going "ooh they are totally gay" is insanely creepy and inappropriate and absolutely something most normal people would want you on a list for.
@eyjay1508 ok then answer me this, ponyo is a movie about 2 8 year olds in love and no one bats an eye at that, the bee movie is about a bee and a human getting together and one cared, the adams family 2 made a literal pig into a girl so pugsly could date her and no one gave a shit. Why does me seeing something i went through at that age and going "aww how cute" bother you?
@@ThinkBoxChris Imagine a 20-30 something year old man sitting on a bench at a park, looking at kids playing and speculating on which ones are and aren't gay, and which ones he wishes were gay.
Now try to picture the average person's reaction to this man.
Ok, but im not its a movie with fictional characters that just resonated with me.id that such a problem?
To counter that how often do steaight people see a boy and a girl interact at that age and wonder if their dating or if they like each other? And no the answer cannot be zero because im well aware people do it, they still do it to me now with my female friends
A gay romance is long overdue. A large chunk of the world's population is lgbt in some way and we NEED this. Yes there is gay media, but if it came from a huge studio like Pixar that can reach a lot of people, i truly believe it would help people understand gay people more and stop seeing us as evil or sinners or whatever and just show us as human beings who are really no different from straight people. I would have adored this movie a million times more if it was gay. And i think Ember should have been a guy. Theres already a lot of lesbian rep because its like you said they're less threatening. If it was two men i think it would be very impactful because men who show affection for one another really needs to be shown in media because men having emotions is basically frowned upon. People seem to hate on openly gay men just a little more than gay women because women showing affection is totally normal.
In conclusion, Ember should be Blaze lol
I feel like you and me would get along well, I have a blog we’re among other things I keep track of all the lgbt rep that has appeared in Disney films, and for this past New Years I wrote a very long piece on all the good and bad Disney has done for the lgbt community (which sadly the bad was about 4 times bigger than the good).
Like here is a small fact from that piece that you may or may not know, several years ago where Disney bought Bluesky it allowed the Buck tv show to finish and ordered the studio to make the Scratch short everyone loves so much, but at the same time forced the studio to cancel the 75% completed film Nimona about a gender non conforming young woman and her two male comrades who were a couple, it was nearly complete but they stopped it. After nearly 4 years the film is finally coming out because Netflix took pity and finished it but we could have had an action movie for kids with a male couple main characters 2 or 3 years ago if Disney hadn’t canceled it.
Again, that’s only a small amount of the info I got on Disney.
@@cajunking5987 That wasn’t what I was saying at all. In early 2020 there weren’t many lgbt characters in Disney films (including Disney studios, mcu, Pixar, and Star Wars) and there was even less mlm couples as this very video points out. So if this film had come out when it was supposed to it would have been before the terrible rep of the Jungle Cruise, and all the other mediocre rep in 2020, 2021, and 2022. Also they are there own characters who are not defined as just being Nimona’s teammates.
Put simply, while not perfect, it would have been a big step forward for both lgbt rep and specifically mlm couples.
@@cajunking5987 As I explained to you in another reply, not every man dating another man is gay, some are, but some can also be bi, pan, omni, or fall under the aroace umbrella. So unless a man or character specifically say they only like men/trans masc people it is presumptuous to call him gay.
I dont know how i didn't see this comment yesterday, but that sucks they did that and me and my are gonna watch nimona this weekend when it comes out so thatll be fun. And again im sorry for cajunking hes banned now, dont let anyone police your language your using inclusive language and thats really good
Also yes we would get along
@@ThinkBoxChris He went over to my channel, but just like you the second he showed his face I banned him.
And yes, I am very excited for Nimona.
they must have been gay for sure. We've seen the same things over and over and over and over. Since we were kids, the media has drowned us in everyone being "straight " The first thing that crossed my mind when I first saw this concept was that I wish they were gay. It would make a lot of sense because, literally, real life? but nooo. We already know that big companies don't care about anyone, but it pisses me off that they are so constipated about lgbt+. They force themselves to make every couple straight.
This makes a good point, but the story was not meant to be focused around the relationship as much as it was around the dynamic between ember and her father. I don’t think you’re point has much ground, but I’ll respect it nonetheless.
Have you seen the movie? Half the run time is literally about ember and wade, and regardless what does my inital point have to do with that. It could have been all 95 minutes it could have been 5 minutes still coulda been about a gay couple
I haven’t watched the movie but I feel like if they wanted to do for “forbidden love” they could’ve had Amber not being able to date him may be his parents that looked down upon her in discussed because of her element. (I don’t know.) I feel like the “forbidden love” trope has gotten too old and is overused and overrated. but i’d be completely fine with a movie where the main couple is queer I would
Honestly, to see a queer couple bond I bet that story would be really good now I want to see that story seriously we need more people of color and queer people being represented in popular media (the reason, I say popular media is because there are many stories and games that have people of color or queer people or both) i’m not a part of any of these groups but we need more representation for these groups of people.
Edit : I know that this video is queer people but it still stands we need more representation of queer people and people of color.
I agree we need more poc and queer rep in general.
To your other point the movie has more casual racisim pn both sides byt nothing too bad. Its not exsactly forbiddin its mors frowned upon. I just dont see a reason why it had to be a straight couple you know
@@ThinkBoxChris I understand why it had to be a straight couple but I wish it was a queer one instead
@Thehjhhhhhggttyg why did it have to be though? Money or backlash is all i can hear from people but theres gotta be more to it
@@ThinkBoxChris yeah probably because they don’t need to include queer people in the first place they just do it so they can look good not because they actually want to.
@Thehjhhhhhggttyg yeah and i hate that, we deserve to be main characters and it not be about homophobia
The story is based on the directors real life story, but I feel they could've just worked around the concept a bit more than just change the races into elements, like you saying LGBTQ could've made it a bit more dramatic and accurate. I feel like the story of a guy and a girl works here, but would've been better if one of them were the opposite gender
Exsactly, just because its based on his life doesnt mean this point isnt invalid, its just a fact about it people are so protective thar notion like im saying it should be about something else
u say that changing the gender wouldn’t make a difference then why say it will be better if it were gay?
I didnt see this for some reason, but to answer your question the genders in question in the romance dont affect the story, which means that changing it around doesnt matter. Making ember a boy or qade a gorl doesnt affect the story negatively so i say do it.
Idk... Sometimes when Disney dose do it and make the characters gay it feels like they just do it for just the purpose of saying "were not homophobic" , and sometimes its just doesn't feel neutral... :/
Its how their doing it, they do a token bad side character and kinda just leave it. Thats why i said eithan was a good gay character because depsite that movies faults hes a fully written character with goals besides tend plants kiss boys
If Disney is actually honest about diversity then they should make a gay couple love story. Heck in my opinion I would be great to have a gay/bi/poly couple/throuple who are native American or black or Asian or South Asian or latine or percifika etc
That sounds awseome actually
They cant, the conservatives would be mad
Genuinely so glad this video popped up in my recommended this morning
Aww yay im glad you liked it
Hi 👋 , my names Christian i am a studio ceo of my own animation company. U know ive been watching your video on repeat and reading the comments that really analyze your point on the subject. I can understand, you know we can all agree that it wouldve been cool to see ourselves in a film, just make it a bit different. I loved this movie, and got to the point where i almost balled my eyes so much, not since Inside Out where i did. Anyway, im not picking sides, i can agree it wouldnt make a difference if it were gay or not. We all know what this film is based on and what its made for. And your argument is understandble. Im currently directing a film, in bio, thats my 1st LGBT themed movie, and it dosnt necessary have my MYSELF as a gay person seen, but the themes on self identity and expression. You should check it out, it stars a gay lead and its about talking animals LOL. Coming this fall. I just want to say that we are in charge of how we want to be seen even though we cant change that like this movie, and believe me id change nothing i loved it so much. You as a content creator can make yourself seen or others seen, like how your audience is shown agreeing with your argument. There are plenty of OTHER sources that star gay characters out there, and sometimes i still dont see myself. Maybe as a gay person but theres more to your identity than just your sexuality. I may not be the best commeneter on here, but id rather show my support and say you do what feels right to you 🙂
Before even watching the video and only seeing the title, I thought "ya know... that would have been good and i probably would have been more interested in seeing it." Though i would hope theyd keep ember (or whatever name change) short, as short kings deserve love too. Typically ive only seen the guy be tall and when theyre together theyre around the same height 😅
Haha that's kinda what i was hoping for with this actually. And yeah i love short guys, i would have thought ember being taller would have been fun too but idk im odd like that
I like the movie as it is, since it’s mostly based on the director’s life. Like it could be a gay movie, but it would probably be treated worse than Strange world that has an LGBT+ character. Like Strange world wasn’t even promoted anywhere and it censored in some countries… in a way Disney will not give an LGBT+ film a chance.. otherwise why cancelled the owl house even though it’s super popular?
I came with low expectations for this video and yet im still disappointed, to me it wouldn't have made a difference either or
Ok, why the low expectations and why would it not have mattered?
@@ThinkBoxChris honestly, i agree with your point but would it have been executed well enough? hollywood has been facing a ton of backlash for forced representation(cleopatra) and bad gay films(bros). i think its great for representation but not to make it forced and natural.
@siewleekong8499 how would it be forced though? At least in this case, ive always said if you struggle to write a couple one way write them as the orientation you know then twwak it from there. To me them being the way they are wouldn't have made a difference if one of them was flipped
Honestly I don't mind it as it is, I headcanon Wade as being bisexual, I mean he kinda is? In storyboards he was blushing around a shirtless fire dude
That kinda makes sense
Should have been gay? Now I’m confused
Itll make sense when the video drops
I mean, I would've loved if the movie was about a gay couple, but I would always want to have a gay couple in any movie, so I don't really understand saying that this specific movie SHOULD have been gay. It's not like the forbidden romance makes no sense if they are a straight couple. Right now, it works well as an allegory for interracial relationships.
Its not that it doesnt make semse its just that it eould hit harder is my point
@@ThinkBoxChris Yeah for sure. But I mean any romance movie would hit harder for me if the characters were gay. If the new Little Mermaid movie was gay, that would hit harder too. So I'm just trying to ask why you specifically say that Elemental should be gay. Like you rated it 9/10 instead of 10/10 because it was about a straight couple. I'm just confused whether this is a sentiment you hold to all movies or just Elemental. And I get that it might be harder to relate to a story about a straight couple but is that worth docking a whole point? Like wouldn't it be weird for me to rate something 9/10 instead of 10/10 because the movie was about Americans and I can't relate to their culture.
@mickey7402 the irony is i made a video years ago about the little mermaid remake being a prime candidate for being gay. Isn't that funny?
As for the other thing, i dont know honestly, i dont really nocite nationality on things because it just never accurse to me. When it comes to elemental i think because i went in with that first impression thought i had it just dinged my enjoyment, im not saying everything has to be gay but id like it more if more things were. Idk this one just hit me really hard in the feels that i just wanted that extra bit if connective tissue for me on a personal level. Ive definitely felt things for straight couples, one of my favorites being flynn and rapunzel from tangled because their so good. So honestly its most liliky only elemental as far as i can reason in my own head