Former great lakes sailor here, most likely nobody survived the trip to the bottom. In the bow, any water tight spaces were so distorted upon impact with the bottom, that they filled with water pretty quickly. The bow imploded, and all structures were bent past being efective in keeping water out, not to mention the force of the impact, and the sudden pressure change from surface to lake bottom. In the stern, most crew members were killed during the roll, especially in the engine room, as its all steel, with plenty of heavy loose objects flying around. IF someone were to survive the roll, the rush of water that occurred upon hitting the lake bottom for the same reasons as the bow, pressure change, cabins crushed, etc. The lights most likely were off before she hit bottom, due to the steam turbine being inverted, the rush of water into the stack and ventilation, among other things. Its also highly likely that an explosion occured from the near freezing water hitting the hot boilers and other machinery. The ster would show little evidence of this explosion, as it occured in a very structurally spound enclosed engineroom. While this may seem terrible, i find peace in these pieces of information, because a sudden death beats suffering for god knows how long in the dark. Ive sailed aboard boats that were built in the same decade as the fitz, and were even closer in design to the fitz.
Wow...thanks for this information. I definitely learned some things from you. Geez...even to delay death until they hit the bottom is too long. Thanks for your very-well thought out comments...so appreciated. Stop by anytime. Merry Christmas...HMM
@jordanjohnson7285 I'm aware of that sinking, it was much less violent in nature, and a smaller more modern vessel than the Fitz, a lot more likely to remain air tight. The force of the fitzgeralds sinking compromised every structure.
Great job HMM! Love the museum and especially the Schoonmaker. It's so cool that visiting never gets old to me. I'd like to look in to volunteering time and services at the museum sometime. I've been claiming to be a proud Toledoan all my life. Toledo has everything you need. It's not too big nor too small. To all the people I've heard piss and moan over the years I say if you think the grass is greener elsewhere then by all means go right ahead. I'll be just fine and dandy right here.
I'm with you mustangmike...I love Toledo; it's my hometown. Kinda like a big small town. We have the Maumee, the Great Lakes and so much more. I know our tour guide was completely volunteer, as are many of the guides at the museum. Thanks again, my friend...HMM
My grandfather was a First Mate on these freighters in the Kinsman fleet for over 30 years. They went out the night the Fitz went down but hugged the shoreline. He died in 99, the song played at his funeral. His last ship, the Kinsman Independent, is still out there under the name Ojibway. I hope to take a ride on it someday and see his old cabin. He was a great man and arguably the most popular guy in the fleet. I went on a Facebook group hoping to maybe find one person who might have remembered him… and one of the very first posts I saw was a photo of him that they were sharing!
Whoa! Now this so cool. Thanks for sharing these stories here. I hope you get your ride sometime soon. Your grandfather would have been a great interview. Thanks for watching...HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan He was a legend out there, but at home in a sleepy little rural town south of Buffalo, he was just a great grandpa to me. I wish I could share pictures on UA-cam! Someone from a newspaper in Wisconsin actually wants to write an article on him! Anyway, thanks for the videos. Take care!
@@HistoryMysteryMan I have never been to Toledo Ohio. But after [your] very personal tour, very cool BTW, I think a trip out that way is in a future plan of the making. And afterwards, a nice burger and fries at that restaurant in the video sounds good also. Cheers! 😊
Tony Packos! The newly renovated riverfront at the National Museum of the Great Lakes is amazing to go with everything! Thanks again...HMM@@vikingmike8139
I watched this video in the winter, but decided to watch it again because I will be visiting the National Museum of the Great Lakes in August and wanted to get a bit of preview. I can't wait to be on board the Schoonmaker. It's such a beautiful ship and the restoration and the subsequent upkeep look really good. It was interesting how the tour guide discussed the similarities with the Fitz. When I see the Frontenac I always think about the similarities she shares with the Fitz, most notably they are almost identical in length.
God, I never thought about the fact that the crew of the Fitzgerald were probably in their cabins, and had time to think about what was happening. That had to be horrifying.
I loved the video and information keeping history alive! Only trouble I had was the Fitzgeralds hatch clamps were in fact different, but glad they have tours and people interested in the history!
I think that is what spooks me the most about the Fitz's sinking, imagining what the final moments of the men in the stern section as it went down was like.
Excellent insight and information. Thanks for taking us along on the tour. I enjoyed both versions of the video and am glad you didn't remove the bell at the end. Thanks again!
Thanks Robert...appreciate that. I hated taking the old video down because I lost all the credit and comments but I think it was the right thing to do. Merry Christmas! HMM
I love waking up in the morning and seeing that you have posted another one of your amazing videos I fix me a cup of coffee and settle down for another awesome day with you Thank You So Much For All You Do On All These Interesting Videos Please Keep Up The Amazing Work Thank You Again 💯💯💯!!!
Very nice tour and video! I got excited when I heard the name Snyder and the Shenango Furnace, I grew up in Sharpsville, PA…. I’ve recently been studying up on all the history of the blast furnaces and steel mills in our area…. Sharpsville, Sharon, Farrell and Youngstown area….Thank you for your work and this amazing video!!
I have to go back to see the whole ship again. Thanks History Mystery Man for taking the bell sound out, even though it was a cool sound like the ship was talking!
You're welcome! I hated deleting the video because I lost all the credit and comments, but I think it was the right thing to do. Thanks for your feedback. HMM
I've been very enlightened by your video as I always thought those freighters were dirty grimey places to live and work on. Never knew they could be so elegant inside, especially for the officers!
No doubt. The work that went into building those old freighters was second to none...the woodwork, the artists that did the work...it really is amazing. Thanks Gerald...HMM
Yeah...you'll love it. Also, spend some time and walk though the newly-renovated park where the Museum sits...along the Maumee River. You won't be disappointed. Thanks for your support, Kathleen! HMM
That's beyond horrifying to think that the men aboard the Big Fitz plausibly suffered before they died...😞 I have always been fascinated by the story about the Big Fitz...idk why?? It's such a tragic story that resonates with anyone who hears about it!! Thank you for sharing this!! I would love to do a tour at the Great Lakes Museum!!! ❤❤❤
@HistoryMysteryMan Thank you. Your work means a lot and is much appreciated for the communities and humanity. My apologies. Thank you for your work and everyone who are in these videos. I'm all for understanding: ships, planes, and automobiles. Shipwrecks, plane wrecks, seas, lakes, rivers, and oceans. Lake michigan triangle with the loss of an airplane. My condolences to all who were lost from shipwrecks and other wrecks. Happy New Year and holidays to you. Thank you.
Unfortunately, water would have gotten, in through the ventilation system, through the air ducts and, also in the windlass room. Because the anchor haws pipes are NOT water tight, so we can pack the openings and put the covers on over the hole but it's open at the top for the chain to fit though. Here on my boat the Arthur M. Anderson, we get water up the haws pipes all the time if it's a heavy sea, But! We do have drains in the far back corners that drain right out over the side through the deck. So if their surfing down the lake and that bow keeps getting pushed down in the water, it'll shoot water up those drains and haws pipes, if it doesn't have a chance to drain back out it will flood the windlass room and down the stairs into the laundry room. So it would have been beneficial to have had someone who sailed these boats to have been on all of the dives, that way we would have known where to check and look to see if inner doors and hatch openings to the lower inside decks were closed. If they weren't then that would have added to the bown riding low in the water too
It certainly didn't help with the water rushing in the haws pipes. I remember on the Joesph Franze, how much water would come in during rough Seas. The Fitzgerald was in much more heavy seas than we were, so, add the extra water up forward, Ballast Tanks compromised and a snow squall to boot! The cards were stacked against her!
@@HistoryMysteryManI think the Anderson lays up in Duluth, MN during the winter months. A buddy of mine is a charter fishing Capt in Duluth and also works at the Port Authority. I’ll ask him for ya and report back when I find out.
@@keithbaker1635 question from Florida, are the ballast tanks always empty when returning with cargo holds full? Or are there circumstances where the cargo may shift that require ballast to level the ship?
I gotta go to Toledo right after Christmas. I wish I had to time to do that tour. Man I felt like there was probably certain smells that couldn't translate to video. Thanks for further fueling my obsession with the Edmond Fitzgerald
I could easily write an essay on the Fitzgerald. That boat had no chance of survival in that storm in my opinion. Too many things went wrong. That's why it's on the bottom of Lake Superior
Awesome video, working on push boats on the gulf coast the woodwork is beautiful, the newer boats that I've been on don't have that, and the tribute to the crewmembers is respectful, on my bucket list to visit this museum
Awesome...ever work with Captain Randy Williams? I love those old push boats. If things go well, I'm going to take a ride on the Mississippi this year with Captain Randy...thanks! HMM
Hello from Windsor Ontario Canada great video brother I was born in 79 I heard the talk around the table as a kid in the 80s about the Edmund Fitzgerald that and the Titanic is what got me facinated with ships and boats and shipwrecks that and the fact I grew up on lake Erie and lake Superior . In the new year I hope too go too mariners church in Detroit , the national great lakes museum and the other great lakes museum and do a documentary about the Mighty Fitz from her beginnings too her tragic end and the other Shipwrecks that lay at the bottom of our great lakes just too name just one of the videoes amongst many I will do . There is an old saying the lakes are oceans disguised as lakes .
Thanks for sharing your thoughts here...good to hear from you from Windsor. Many mariners believe the Great Lakes are worse than the oceans because the Lakes are defined by tighter boundaries which turns the waves into vicious chops that beat the tar out of you...it doesn't roll like the ocean does. I too am planning an expedition in 2024 to include the Mariners Church in Detroit, Whitefish Point, Duluth and Superior. Thanks for supporting my channel...HMM
You are welcome thank you for relighting that flame in me for the Mighty Fitz if you want I would love too accompany you on that expedition .@@HistoryMysteryMan
I've heard there is a second procedure where they are supposed to go below while in port and look for daylight coming through gaps that form over time, and take sledge hammers and pound them back into shape where there are gaps from bending of the hatches.
Great video, one question, where did you find the pictures of Fitzgerald like at 10:22 and 10:28? Ive looked everywhere but haven't found any pics of those rooms? Thanks
Thanks for posting the video. I will now have a more vivid image of the ship as I listen to Gordon Lightfoot. I have had an interest in the Edmund Fitzgerald since I first heard the song. Back then there was no internet to help with research of the mystery. I'm sure old Gord has met with those brave souls on the other side now that he's passed on. He said the tale fascinated him as he was a sailor himself. He had several sailing boats in his life time. She was a big ship, bigger than I imagined. People forget how big the Great Lakes are. Most people who never venture out in a boat for leisure or otherwise underestimate the power of the sea and those lakes are inland seas.
Very well said; thanks for sharing your thoughts here. The Great Lakes are truly magical...and yes, they are inland seas that can batter the heck out of you. Thanks for taking the time to watch...stop by anytime. RIP Gordon Lightfoot and the 29 brave men on the Mighty Fitz. HMM
Somewhere on the Museum Ground is a Stanchion from the Barge Maida, That My Grand Father Capt James Alexander was the Master of and The Constitution..saw it on a video...Have many Pictures of the Same..Great Place to Visit....
will have to get in touch with my Nephew. he has a collection of all the Pictures Regarding all of the Ships he sailed on, My great uncle was a Master on The Canadian SS Alexander Leslie, along with My Maternal Uncle who was the engineer, I have a lot of stories related to My Grand Father 5 Uncles that sailed and My Father will contact you soon..
@@HistoryMysteryMan No, he died about 9 years ago. When I was a kid I saw the Coast Guard report that he had which was one of the reasons for my interest, along with my dad.
Thanks for the video Additionally: there many more maritime museums throughout the Great Lakes : growing up around these vessels as a kid was amazing able run around and mtg several guys seeing these videos brings back so many memories : A couple my favorite ones : downtown Cleveland Vermilion , Fairport harbor Obviously my home town Toledo Many stories from my grandfather ::;:❤ Long live Cleveland Cliffs
So many thanks. I worked on the Cuyahoga River for three years...I love Cleveland...still go there a lot. The Schoonmaker spent much of its life as the Willis B. Boyer, which was a Cleveland Cliffs boat I believe. Thanks for your support. HMM
Great content, the rule about the survival suits is noble but I was always under the impression that the ship went down so fast that nobody had time to put one on 😮
And I believe you're exactly right on that. If there was never a distress call, which there wasn't, they didn't have to time to say goodbye to one another, let along anyone else. Thanks for chiming in! HMM
Now there's a point of view I had never thought about...in fact, first I've heard of this possibility from anyone. Bravo for coming up with this...thanks! HMM
Visited the "Schoonmaker" in the summer of '22. Don't forget about the pilothouse of the "St. Mary's Challenger," another survivor of the White Hurricane of 1913, and (launched in 1906) even older than the "Schoonmaker."
Remember sitting at the table just after blowing out my birthday candles when the news about Edmund Fitzgerald sinking came on. My dad looked at me and said, hell of a thing to remember on your birthday. 😔
My grandpa worked the ore freighters his whole career. He had some stories of frightening adventures and he was unbeatable at any card game. I wish I had taken the time to actually record some of his stories.
Cool stuff Jack; thanks for sharing your stories here. I can't tell you how many times I wished I had recorded the stories from those who have passed. HMM
A fun fact. Three of the former Shenango fleet ships exist, the Schoonmaker, the original William P. Snyder, now the barge St. Marys Challenger and the Shenango II, now the Hon. James. L. Oberstar.
@@HistoryMysteryMan No problem, the Shenango Furnace fleet had six ships in total! -William P. Snyder. -Shenango. -Col. James M. Schoonmaker. -William P. Snyder Jr. -Wilpen. -Shenango II.
I was in Duluth working as a TV News Cameraman with the Fitzgerald sank. Two reports from ships that came into Duluth. 1 a Salty that had seen the storms of the North Sea in winter said that the waves were more violent because of the short reach. There were times when the Bow and Stern were in the waves and there was almost no water under the middle of the boat. Then moments later the Bow and Stern were out of the water and water the wave Crest was sloshing over the rails amidship. The other report was from a Laker that had the railing in front of the pilot house bent towards the windows from a High Wave. They felt lucky it had not smashed the windows.
Super interesting information; thanks for sharing it here. Those ocean salty Captains quickly gain a new level of respect for sailing on the Great Lakes. Thanks for watching, George. HMM
Thank you for sharing this. I could only imagine how scary it would have been to be down there when the ship sank. It goes to show how much the Fitzgerald was in bad shape. They really abused it to the point where it couldn't take it anymore. Its a lesson in knowing how to take care of things so they will last as long as humanly possible. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays
I lived in Sault Ste. Marie, ON and on Nov 10th 1975 I was at high school at basketball practice scheduled 6-9pm. About 7 or 7:30 the gymnasium roof was creaking very loudly. Our coach cancelled practice. I called home for a ride from phone in hallway remember 10 cents for a call)😂 No answer at my house so a teammate offered me a ride home. The winds and rain were crazy. Winds were coming from due west. I got out of his van at his house and I lived for east. I started home running and almost fell over as my legs almost couldn’t keep me up. It felt like I was there in about 10s. It was just over 100 yards from his place to mine and I was wind assisted. I said to my brother I might have set a world record. He liked listening on his scanner and was it was battery operated and we lost power. We were listening to police reports etc. We didn’t know what was happening. I remember waking the next day hearing they found life rings and life raft if I recall. Super sad time for the city. Lots of interest in Great Lakes shipping due to the Soo Locks. I will never forget that night and those brave sailers. 🙏😢
Wow! Fascinating story...thanks for sharing it here. 10 cents for a phone call...that's hysterical. I'm going to visit Sault Ste. Marie in 2024 on my trip to Whitefish Point. What a night that must of have been for you...only to wake up to the news of what happened out there. Thanks again...HMM@@1234clarknj
I think what contributes the most to the interest and mystery surrounding the Fitz is that the sinking left no survivors to tell the tale. When you have first hand accounts, it allows the story to be put to rest easier. There was not even a mayday call by the captain, and even though she was seen by those on the Anderson one minute and gone the next, reported missing and had coast guard assets out there looking and reported by news media as missing presumed lost pretty quickly, and eyes on the wreck via submersible surprisingly fast for the time period and the way she was found torn apart, the cause of it all, although I think the bottoming out on shoal/taking on water/bow pushed down by huge wave/plunged and broke apart when striking bottom is most likely, will never be truly known and eternally be debated. Has had me hooked for a long time.
For sure..we'll never know for sure what happened, whether dives are permitted or not. And yes...the eternal debate carries on. This is why it'd be so challenging to make a movie of the Mighty Fitz, because nobody knows what really happened...I mean, how would you end the story? Thanks for your support...HMM
Strange to think that the Fitzgerald's bow could have hit the bottom while the stern was still on the surface. Sank in 530ft of water, and was 730ft long
And many estimates, based on the damage we know about, has her traveling at nearly 40mph when she hit bottom. A jolt like that over her compromised hull could have easily snapped her in two. Thanks for watching...HMM
You can thank Gordon Lightfoot, for his song and keeping the memory of the Edmund Fitzgerald alive. If it was not for his song, no one would know about the ship wreck. So you can thank a CANADAIN for keeping the memory alive!
No doubt...Lightfoot shared the story of the Mighty Fitz with the world...and always grateful for his contributions. Although I wouldn't say "no one". As a Great Lakes mariner, this story resonates deeply with me, even without the song. Thanks. Go Lions. HMM
Thanks for sharing this! I’ve never been out there but this I’ll definitely have to add to my bucket list. I visited the Valley Camp about 10 years ago probably, back then I was just a kid and didn’t recognize the significance of the Fitzgerald as much as I do now. I don’t remember it too well but I hope to go back to it one day. Have you ever been to the Valley Camp?
@@HistoryMysteryMan I don’t know much about it either but it is 6 years younger than the Schoonmaker and is in Sault St Marie. My favorite part of the ship is that it has the lifeboats of the Fitzgerald and it felt so surreal to be in there. I hope I can go back to the ship one day. Just to see the Lifeboats again would be something. I can’t remember what else they had there but it was something. I hope you can visit it, you’d love it!
Any Fitz crew holed up in a cabin or the engine room would know the ship was underwater quickly due to lack of pitching and rolling motions, once the ship was submerged.
Beautiful ship. Separate dining quarters for officers and crew isn't even a thing on the new ships built for Canada Steamship Lines. Even the PRT still has the Captain's dining room, although the Captain and officers only dine in it when there are guests. Things are much more egalitarian nowadays.
Very good video.i sailed the great lakes for 30 years on the canadian side.some if what you say is true. During summer we only put the corner vlamps on sometimes one or 2 in the middle. That was from june till anytime in September, after that all clamps on. As for the rooms,i never hot bunked but on some boats i shared a room and ithers i had my iwn room but shared a bathroom in between. The whole crew rooms you couldnt access from the outside to each room,you had to walk indide and fown the hall. The fitz was the sameway. No sonar wouldnt have helped him dince he didnt really know whete he was at with no radar and very limited visibility. As far as people alive.ill say no. The bow part with the windows blown out,water would rush in but from bow to stern on noth sides of the ship would have been the crew tunnels.they would use in bad weather to ho back for supper or anything.water would have rushed in there and flooded the bow fast . Either way in the bow they were dead by the time they hit the bottom. Same as the stern . If it broke apart on the surface,the stern could have stayed afloat for a few seconds longer but the rush of water from the tunnels then if the steam engines didnt explod when the cold water hit them. Remember the engineers turned iff the boilers on the titanic so they eouldnt explode.
i started dating a girl in June of 1976 - in Nov. there was a program about the Fitzgerald & that is when she told me her & her girlfriend were guests on it - must be with her girlfriends parents too because her dad was a Dr. here in Lorain Ohio
@@HistoryMysteryMan sad to say things did not work out - she met another - got married - he passed on - then she did also about a year or so ago - but thanks for the reply
I have a black and white Polaroid picture of the Edmund Fitzgerald, (circ. 1950's) that I had found in my late uncle's picture album that I received from my mother many years ago. My uncle had been in tool and die I believe at one time. The ship is on dry-dock and doesn't look totally complete, but its name is clearly visible. I would like to donate it to some museum, so, if anyone has any suggestions, please leave a comment. Namaste. From a Vietnam Era Marine Corps veteran.
First of all, thanks for your service...so much respect. I'm sure the National Museum of the Great Lakes in Toledo would be interested in the photo; I can assure you that I am. I'd love to see a copy of the photo...thanks, Charles. HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan I just want to thank you for such a wonderful and informative video and narration. Grew up near downriver Detroit and so many memories of seeing the Fitzgerald and other Lakers. Upon going thru the album years ago, I was caught off-guard and totally surprised when I saw the name of this fateful ship and her crew. The picture is presently at My Son's home, as I live 3 hours away, but will make a Spring run there and contact you and send a pic. I use to sail on Lake Erie back in the 80's with a sailing crew and have great memories of the Lakers. I will definitely visit and give it to the museum. Namaste. Semper Fi!
You're welcome; thanks for taking an interest in what we're doing. Great place to grow up...downriver Detroit...sure wish we were watching the Lions in the Super Bowl. I'd be grateful to see that pic...thanks sir! HMM@@charlesmiddleton3247
i do think where ever a crewman was at - they were either knockout or killed before it went down from beating they took by the waves - some i think some are still inside somewhere - that's why no dives are allowed anymore since one man was spotted on the lake floor wearing a life jacket
10-4. I would venture to say that they're all still inside, with the exception of one (that we know of). Bodies were never recovered which means they're still on the ship. Had they remained on the surface, some of the bodies would have washed ashore eventually at Whitefish. Thanks for watching...HMM
H man, this is reall cool. You would be the guy that would be able to tell me....something I have never heard anyone talk about. The Fitz. Look at the underwater pics. The sun sheild over the windows of the pilothouse, they are all bent pretty badly. This didn't happen from hitting the bottom. Why are they bent? Nose diving as Cooper and other have speculated, does not seem to be logical to me especially if they were already low in thd water. Huge waves might have done it. But they were running with the waves. Really it can only be from nose diving or huge waves smashing down on her. What does Captain Ned, or whatever his name is, think? How about you?
Super interesting thoughts...and thanks for sharing them here. It is widely understood that the pilot house visor got all wrinkled up when it made contact with the bottom...and many believe it was traveling at possibly 30-35mph when she landed. But you got me thinking; that's for sure...but I just can't see anything else that would bend the visor other than crashing into the bottom...but I'm open for thought on this. Captain Darrell thinks the visor bent when it landed. Thanks for chiming in...HMM
My Dad had it nailed. She lost positive bouncy and nose dived at a pretty good angle. Had she gone straight down, the visor would be bent up. Nose dive, Rouge wave, 3 Sisters. Only the crew in the Pilot House know for sure. And some day so will we.
I spend quite a bit if time near Whitefish Point which is 13 miles from where Edmund Fitzgerald went down. There is a Shipwreck Museum at the lighthouse. Very interesting.
@@HistoryMysteryMan It is beautiful up there. My sister owns property on Whitefish Bay. A friend of ours who lives there sent picture of 3 iron ore freighters taking shelter from December storm last year. Was nighttime so beautiful with ship lights. Thats where the Fitz was heading for shelter.
That sounds so nice. I am so thankful I grew up and still live around the Great Lakes...so much magic...and of course Superior being the granddaddy of them all. Can't wait to visit... @@theresamccant459
The pressure would have killed them by about 150ft i reckon. I know theres first hand accounts of folks hearing an explosion from the titanic shortly after she left the surface. That noise was less likely the boilers and more likely the remaining air in the stern exploding outward circa 150 to 200ft (if memory serves). I cannot imagine how horrifying it was but it would have been quick. RIP to these brave 29
We hope it was quick. So...is your opinion that some of the water tight compartments -- bunks/quarters and such -- could not have stayed water tight on the bottom of Superior? Thanks...HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan Theoretically parts of the bowels of the ship may have somehow stayed water tight but I think its extremely unlikely. Purpose built submarine from this era of construction were not generally looking to exceed this depth by much (boleo and gatto class submarines would be nearing their limit and the early nautilus class could do it). A rusted hulk built for the surface probably wouldn't fair well but I cannot conclusively say there could be a part where significantly compressed air wouldn't have somehow pooled during the shifting of the vessel to the bottom. I do think the immediate 33 atmosphere pressure differential would have blown out every organ with an airpocket causing nearly instant fatal damage to any souls who took the ride. Ear drums and lungs violently imploding etc. We descend slowly as we dive to allow these force to equalize naturally with our pressurized gas. En example: When my dad was at Duke University in the 70s the had a hyperbaric chamber in the medical school and they were working with navy divers to do research on long term exposure to being held under deep pressure. The guys would go live in there for a week or two at a time and they would crank it up to simulate serious depth. They had an airlock they could pass things through (food etc). One of the cool things you could do supposedly was take a normal Styrofoam cup and put it in the airlock and pressurize it to their level and it would come into the chamber smaller than a shot glass. Essentially this would have happened violently from such rapid pressure increase. The Kursk (Russian submarine) went down in similar depths with all hands onboard. Many did survive that (fairly modern submarine for the purpose of this conversation). Those poor men did survive for quite awhile before ... if memory serves some spark of something lit one of the gases in the vessel and basically burned all the oxygen out of the enviroment. Extremely grim stuff. I wouldn't consider myself any manner of expert but I would very very strongly doubt Fitz at launch would have held air that deep let alone on the night she broke apart. The way Fitz went down is one of the more horrifying wreck scenarios I can imagine though. It's hard to fathom the horrible noises that must have been created.
@@AArdW01f Thanks for this detailed explanation of your thoughts. No matter when the crew passed over, I pray it was fast without prolonged suffering. Thanks again...I appreciate your expertise and willingness to share here. HMM
And yet diving on the Fitz is still prohibited I'm with captain Darrell why is it you can dive on all these other sunken shipwrecks like the Bradley and the morrell but the Fitz is off limits very odd I'd say
Good question. The Canadian government has officially ruled the Fitz off-limits. I don't see that changing, but never say never. Thanks for your interest...HMM
Good question. We know that the pilot house is empty so more than likely (for those who were in the pilot house) they were thrust back down the inside steps to the area below...and are still there. For those already tucked inside their watertight cabins in the bow area, I believe they are still in their cabins...their eternal mausoleums.
In my opinion, the Fitzgerald is not the Titanic of the Great Lakes. The James C. Caruthers is. I understand why the Fitzgerald went to the bottom of Lake Superior.
Interesting. Now I want to learn about the Caruthers...so thanks for that. Maybe I should say the Fitz is the most famous shipwreck on the Great Lakes (because of Lightfoot's song) rather than the Titanic of the Lakes. HMM
Former great lakes sailor here, most likely nobody survived the trip to the bottom. In the bow, any water tight spaces were so distorted upon impact with the bottom, that they filled with water pretty quickly. The bow imploded, and all structures were bent past being efective in keeping water out, not to mention the force of the impact, and the sudden pressure change from surface to lake bottom. In the stern, most crew members were killed during the roll, especially in the engine room, as its all steel, with plenty of heavy loose objects flying around. IF someone were to survive the roll, the rush of water that occurred upon hitting the lake bottom for the same reasons as the bow, pressure change, cabins crushed, etc. The lights most likely were off before she hit bottom, due to the steam turbine being inverted, the rush of water into the stack and ventilation, among other things. Its also highly likely that an explosion occured from the near freezing water hitting the hot boilers and other machinery. The ster would show little evidence of this explosion, as it occured in a very structurally spound enclosed engineroom. While this may seem terrible, i find peace in these pieces of information, because a sudden death beats suffering for god knows how long in the dark. Ive sailed aboard boats that were built in the same decade as the fitz, and were even closer in design to the fitz.
Wow...thanks for this information. I definitely learned some things from you. Geez...even to delay death until they hit the bottom is too long. Thanks for your very-well thought out comments...so appreciated. Stop by anytime. Merry Christmas...HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan MERRY CHRISTMAS!
There’s a chance they survived. There was a man off the coast of Africa who survived for 3 days on the bottom of the ocean. He was 100 feet down.
@jordanjohnson7285 I'm aware of that sinking, it was much less violent in nature, and a smaller more modern vessel than the Fitz, a lot more likely to remain air tight. The force of the fitzgeralds sinking compromised every structure.
@@jordanjohnson7285 if I'm not mistaken he was actually about 200 ft down. Divers found him while surveying the wreck three days later.
Very interesting. I would never have thought that these ships were so luxuriously equipped. The Schoonmaker is an impressive piece of history.
Sure is...thanks for taking the time to watch. HMM
Great video. Its terrifying to think those men might not have died quickly but knew what was happening, rest in peace.
It certainly is...and how terrified they would have been. I can't imagine. To the 29 men...may they rest in peace. Thanks George. HMM
Beautiful job showing and explaining. It makes me sad to this day the events that took place that awful day!
I know...it's so sad. But we need to remember the men. Thanks for your support...HMM
Great job HMM! Love the museum and especially the Schoonmaker. It's so cool that visiting never gets old to me. I'd like to look in to volunteering time and services at the museum sometime. I've been claiming to be a proud Toledoan all my life. Toledo has everything you need. It's not too big nor too small. To all the people I've heard piss and moan over the years I say if you think the grass is greener elsewhere then by all means go right ahead. I'll be just fine and dandy right here.
I'm with you mustangmike...I love Toledo; it's my hometown. Kinda like a big small town. We have the Maumee, the Great Lakes and so much more. I know our tour guide was completely volunteer, as are many of the guides at the museum. Thanks again, my friend...HMM
My grandfather was a First Mate on these freighters in the Kinsman fleet for over 30 years. They went out the night the Fitz went down but hugged the shoreline. He died in 99, the song played at his funeral. His last ship, the Kinsman Independent, is still out there under the name Ojibway. I hope to take a ride on it someday and see his old cabin. He was a great man and arguably the most popular guy in the fleet. I went on a Facebook group hoping to maybe find one person who might have remembered him… and one of the very first posts I saw was a photo of him that they were sharing!
Whoa! Now this so cool. Thanks for sharing these stories here. I hope you get your ride sometime soon. Your grandfather would have been a great interview. Thanks for watching...HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan He was a legend out there, but at home in a sleepy little rural town south of Buffalo, he was just a great grandpa to me. I wish I could share pictures on UA-cam! Someone from a newspaper in Wisconsin actually wants to write an article on him! Anyway, thanks for the videos. Take care!
"A legend out there, but at home...just a grandpa to me." I love that!@@30AndHatingIt
Thanks for this lovely 'tag along' on a wonderful day in Toledo Ohio. Cheers!
You're welcome...glad you could join us! Thanks...HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan I have never been to Toledo Ohio. But after [your] very personal tour, very cool BTW, I think a trip out that way is in a future plan of the making. And afterwards, a nice burger and fries at that restaurant in the video sounds good also. Cheers! 😊
Tony Packos! The newly renovated riverfront at the National Museum of the Great Lakes is amazing to go with everything! Thanks again...HMM@@vikingmike8139
@@HistoryMysteryMan Cheers! 🍔🍟🌮🍧😊
I watched this video in the winter, but decided to watch it again because I will be visiting the National Museum of the Great Lakes in August and wanted to get a bit of preview. I can't wait to be on board the Schoonmaker. It's such a beautiful ship and the restoration and the subsequent upkeep look really good. It was interesting how the tour guide discussed the similarities with the Fitz. When I see the Frontenac I always think about the similarities she shares with the Fitz, most notably they are almost identical in length.
Thanks for checking back in with this video. That's huge when someone takes the time to rewatch! HMM
These ships are fascinating and thanks for the video 🙂
You're welcome Gary...thanks for taking the time to watch. HMM
God, I never thought about the fact that the crew of the Fitzgerald were probably in their cabins, and had time to think about what was happening. That had to be horrifying.
Beyond terrifying...it's hard to think about. Thanks for watching...HMM
Oh that's terrible. I can't imagine how terrifying.@bjmicha3
That's just speculation. I don't buy Pearl Harbour as a surprise attack either.
They made it almost 3 weeks and they could hear them tapping as on the hull .
Whoa!@@brentmiller3951
I loved the video and information keeping history alive! Only trouble I had was the Fitzgeralds hatch clamps were in fact different, but glad they have tours and people interested in the history!
Duly noted; thanks for sharing your input here! HMM
I think that is what spooks me the most about the Fitz's sinking, imagining what the final moments of the men in the stern section as it went down was like.
Excellent insight and information. Thanks for taking us along on the tour. I enjoyed both versions of the video and am glad you didn't remove the bell at the end. Thanks again!
Thanks Robert...appreciate that. I hated taking the old video down because I lost all the credit and comments but I think it was the right thing to do. Merry Christmas! HMM
Wow that’s awesome! Thanks for sharing, I’m going to put that in my list of places to visit.
Thanks Brady...and yes, please come see the museum! HMM
WOW!! Thank you HMM, another "home run" video!!
Thank you for a great video! I want to visit that ship soon!
You're welcome Aaron; thanks for watching...HMM
I plan on getting here in spring . Great video
Great idea Justin. Thanks again! HMM
I love waking up in the morning and seeing that you have posted another one of your amazing videos I fix me a cup of coffee and settle down for another awesome day with you Thank You So Much For All You Do On All These Interesting Videos Please Keep Up The Amazing Work Thank You Again 💯💯💯!!!
You are so welcome Holly...so many thanks! That's a huge compliment for me...for you to share your coffee with me and my videos. Totally honored! HMM
My dad was just talking about visiting this freighter earlier this week. Lol. Thanks HMM.
You're always welcome Eric...stop by anytime. Thanks for your support...HMM
Very nice tour and video! I got excited when I heard the name Snyder and the Shenango Furnace, I grew up in Sharpsville, PA…. I’ve recently been studying up on all the history of the blast furnaces and steel mills in our area…. Sharpsville, Sharon, Farrell and Youngstown area….Thank you for your work and this amazing video!!
You're welcome Daniel; I'm so glad you enjoyed the video. I appreciate you. HMM
I have to go back to see the whole ship again. Thanks History Mystery Man for taking the bell sound out, even though it was a cool sound like the ship was talking!
You're welcome! I hated deleting the video because I lost all the credit and comments, but I think it was the right thing to do. Thanks for your feedback. HMM
I've been very enlightened by your video as I always thought those freighters were dirty grimey places to live and work on. Never knew they could be so elegant inside, especially for the officers!
No doubt. The work that went into building those old freighters was second to none...the woodwork, the artists that did the work...it really is amazing. Thanks Gerald...HMM
Can’t wait to see everything at the museum.
Yeah...you'll love it. Also, spend some time and walk though the newly-renovated park where the Museum sits...along the Maumee River. You won't be disappointed. Thanks for your support, Kathleen! HMM
Great video. The wind in the background is eerie; love it! I'm going to have to take a vacation to Toledo and check this out!
Absolutely...come to Toledo! You'll love it! HMM
That's beyond horrifying to think that the men aboard the Big Fitz plausibly suffered before they died...😞
I have always been fascinated by the story about the Big Fitz...idk why??
It's such a tragic story that resonates with anyone who hears about it!!
Thank you for sharing this!!
I would love to do a tour at the Great Lakes Museum!!! ❤❤❤
Well, thanks for taking the time to watch. Once you get hooked on the story of the Mighty Fitz, it's forever. Stop by anytime...Happy New Year! HMM
Thank you for your teams work on these videos.
Only wish I had a team. It's all me, soup to nuts. Thanks for your support, and Happy New Year! HMM
@HistoryMysteryMan Thank you. Your work means a lot and is much appreciated for the communities and humanity. My apologies. Thank you for your work and everyone who are in these videos. I'm all for understanding: ships, planes, and automobiles. Shipwrecks, plane wrecks, seas, lakes, rivers, and oceans. Lake michigan triangle with the loss of an airplane. My condolences to all who were lost from shipwrecks and other wrecks. Happy New Year and holidays to you. Thank you.
No apologies necessary. I really appreciate you; thanks for being here. HMM@@levelmemes3625
Always fascinating stuff, thank you! I'll honk again for Christmas en route from Benson, NC to St. Clair Shores, MI. Merry Christmas!
Thanks for the salute...I remember us going through this exchange last year. Merry Christmas my friend; thanks for coming back. HMM
Unfortunately, water would have gotten, in through the ventilation system, through the air ducts and, also in the windlass room. Because the anchor haws pipes are NOT water tight, so we can pack the openings and put the covers on over the hole but it's open at the top for the chain to fit though. Here on my boat the Arthur M. Anderson, we get water up the haws pipes all the time if it's a heavy sea, But! We do have drains in the far back corners that drain right out over the side through the deck. So if their surfing down the lake and that bow keeps getting pushed down in the water, it'll shoot water up those drains and haws pipes, if it doesn't have a chance to drain back out it will flood the windlass room and down the stairs into the laundry room. So it would have been beneficial to have had someone who sailed these boats to have been on all of the dives, that way we would have known where to check and look to see if inner doors and hatch openings to the lower inside decks were closed. If they weren't then that would have added to the bown riding low in the water too
It certainly didn't help with the water rushing in the haws pipes. I remember on the Joesph Franze, how much water would come in during rough Seas. The Fitzgerald was in much more heavy seas
than we were, so, add the extra water up forward, Ballast Tanks compromised and a snow squall to boot! The cards were stacked against her!
Interesting insight Keith; thanks for sharing your thoughts here. Do you know where the Anderson will lay-up for the winter? Can I get aboard?
@@HistoryMysteryManI think the Anderson lays up in Duluth, MN during the winter months. A buddy of mine is a charter fishing Capt in Duluth and also works at the Port Authority. I’ll ask him for ya and report back when I find out.
@@TillerG7 Thanks...I believe the Anderson is laying up in Superior, Wis. this year. HMM
@@keithbaker1635 question from Florida, are the ballast tanks always empty when returning with cargo holds full? Or are there circumstances where the cargo may shift that require ballast to level the ship?
I gotta go to Toledo right after Christmas. I wish I had to time to do that tour. Man I felt like there was probably certain smells that couldn't translate to video. Thanks for further fueling my obsession with the Edmond Fitzgerald
I could easily write an essay on the Fitzgerald. That boat had no chance of survival in that storm in my opinion. Too many things went wrong. That's why it's on the bottom of Lake Superior
@@gregorylyon1004 do you think she scraped bottom on six fathom shoals?
You're welcome! And thanks for your support! HMM
Yes I do believe she went aground at six fathom shoals...thanks. HMM
If you write your essay, I'll read it! Thanks again...HMM
Thanks for another informational video HMM. How terrible that must of been for the crew. God bless. Merry Christmas everyone. Take care and stay safe.
Thanks again, Greg. A safe and Merry Christmas to you and yours...HMM
Awesome video, working on push boats on the gulf coast the woodwork is beautiful, the newer boats that I've been on don't have that, and the tribute to the crewmembers is respectful, on my bucket list to visit this museum
Awesome...ever work with Captain Randy Williams? I love those old push boats. If things go well, I'm going to take a ride on the Mississippi this year with Captain Randy...thanks! HMM
Just took the tour of the schoonmaker and museum for the first time this last summer
It's a super-cool tour; glad you could make it happen. Thanks...HMM
The Great Lakes Museum is a must see if you are interested in the lakes and the history of them etc.
I'll buy that...thanks Eric. HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan your welcome
These are great! Thank you
Thank you so much...so appreciated. HMM
Beautiful boat!
Sure is...it's a beauty.
Hello from Windsor Ontario Canada great video brother I was born in 79 I heard the talk around the table as a kid in the 80s about the Edmund Fitzgerald that and the Titanic is what got me facinated with ships and boats and shipwrecks that and the fact I grew up on lake Erie and lake Superior . In the new year I hope too go too mariners church in Detroit , the national great lakes museum and the other great lakes museum and do a documentary about the Mighty Fitz from her beginnings too her tragic end and the other Shipwrecks that lay at the bottom of our great lakes just too name just one of the videoes amongst many I will do . There is an old saying the lakes are oceans disguised as lakes .
Thanks for sharing your thoughts here...good to hear from you from Windsor. Many mariners believe the Great Lakes are worse than the oceans because the Lakes are defined by tighter boundaries which turns the waves into vicious chops that beat the tar out of you...it doesn't roll like the ocean does. I too am planning an expedition in 2024 to include the Mariners Church in Detroit, Whitefish Point, Duluth and Superior. Thanks for supporting my channel...HMM
You are welcome thank you for relighting that flame in me for the Mighty Fitz if you want I would love too accompany you on that expedition .@@HistoryMysteryMan
Up for consideration! Thanks...HMM@@secretsofthepastsparahisto2993
I've heard there is a second procedure where they are supposed to go below while in port and look for daylight coming through gaps that form over time, and take sledge hammers and pound them back into shape where there are gaps from bending of the hatches.
Interesting info...thanks for sharing it here. HMM
Great video, one question, where did you find the pictures of Fitzgerald like at 10:22 and 10:28? Ive looked everywhere but haven't found any pics of those rooms? Thanks
Thank you. Got them from someone who once worked on the Fitz.
That guy was a great tour guide, you guys are lucky.
For sure...he was awesome...really enjoyed it. Thanks! HMM
Thanks for posting the video. I will now have a more vivid image of the ship as I listen to Gordon Lightfoot. I have had an interest in the Edmund Fitzgerald since I first heard the song. Back then there was no internet to help with research of the mystery.
I'm sure old Gord has met with those brave souls on the other side now that he's passed on. He said the tale fascinated him as he was a sailor himself. He had several sailing boats in his life time. She was a big ship, bigger than I imagined. People forget how big the Great Lakes are. Most people who never venture out in a boat for leisure or otherwise underestimate the power of the sea and those lakes are inland seas.
Very well said; thanks for sharing your thoughts here. The Great Lakes are truly magical...and yes, they are inland seas that can batter the heck out of you. Thanks for taking the time to watch...stop by anytime. RIP Gordon Lightfoot and the 29 brave men on the Mighty Fitz. HMM
Somewhere on the Museum Ground is a Stanchion from the Barge Maida, That My Grand Father Capt James Alexander was the Master of and The Constitution..saw it on a video...Have many Pictures of the Same..Great Place to Visit....
That's super awesome. I'll bet you have some great stories to tell about your grandfather...feel free to share them here. Thanks for watching...HMM
will have to get in touch with my Nephew. he has a collection of all the Pictures Regarding all of the Ships he sailed on, My great uncle was a Master on The Canadian SS Alexander Leslie, along with My Maternal Uncle who was the engineer, I have a lot of stories related to My Grand Father 5 Uncles that sailed and My Father will contact you soon..
I'd love to hear your stories...and I'd love to see your pics too! Thanks again, Bill...HMM@@BillAlexander-cv6oj
The Edmund Fitzgerald, at 730ft in length, was 200ft longer than the depth of the water(530ft) in which it sank!
Yeah...that's a super interesting side bar; thanks for sharing that here. HMM
My dad was an officer on the Coast Guard Woodrush that went out after them, as a result I have always been interested in the Fitz.
That's super interesting; thanks for sharing your story here. Is you dad still alive? Thanks...HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan No, he died about 9 years ago. When I was a kid I saw the Coast Guard report that he had which was one of the reasons for my interest, along with my dad.
Man that's super cool...that you got to see that report. RIP to your father...Merry Christmas.@@anonymous.nobody
@@HistoryMysteryMan Wishing you a Merry Christmas.
Thanks for the video
Additionally: there many more maritime museums throughout the Great Lakes : growing up around these vessels as a kid was amazing able run around and mtg several guys seeing these videos brings back so many memories :
A couple my favorite ones : downtown Cleveland
Vermilion , Fairport harbor
Obviously my home town Toledo
Many stories from my grandfather ::;:❤
Long live Cleveland Cliffs
So many thanks. I worked on the Cuyahoga River for three years...I love Cleveland...still go there a lot. The Schoonmaker spent much of its life as the Willis B. Boyer, which was a Cleveland Cliffs boat I believe. Thanks for your support. HMM
Thank You
You're welcome; thanks again, Bob...HMM
I was on lake Superior it is cold water and there is a roaring Erie noise .it is alive and does what it wants.
Whoa! That's eerie...thanks. HMM
Awesome video thank you ❤
You're welcome Rick; thanks for watching...HMM
I was there in July 2022 my family and I had a great time touring the museum and both boats.. 13:12
Awesome...thanks for visiting Lloyd...come back soon! Tell your family the History Mystery Man said hey! HMM
Great content, the rule about the survival suits is noble but I was always under the impression that the ship went down so fast that nobody had time to put one on 😮
And I believe you're exactly right on that. If there was never a distress call, which there wasn't, they didn't have to time to say goodbye to one another, let along anyone else. Thanks for chiming in! HMM
They didn't have survival suits yet. It was after the Fitz went down, they made it mandatory.
Maybe there was an air pocket in the engine room and that's partially why the stern is upside down, because of the air in the top/bottom.
Now there's a point of view I had never thought about...in fact, first I've heard of this possibility from anyone. Bravo for coming up with this...thanks! HMM
Visited the "Schoonmaker" in the summer of '22. Don't forget about the pilothouse of the "St. Mary's Challenger," another survivor of the White Hurricane of 1913, and (launched in 1906) even older than the "Schoonmaker."
Thanks! The St. Mary's Challenger...is that the pilot house that sits next to the Tug Ohio down there? HMM
@HistoryMysteryMan
Yes it is! She's had a very long history. It's a shame she was cut down into a barge.
Remember sitting at the table just after blowing out my birthday candles when the news about Edmund Fitzgerald sinking came on. My dad looked at me and said, hell of a thing to remember on your birthday. 😔
Wow! Now that's a powerful memory; thanks for sharing it here, David. HMM
Love your videos. Fascinated with the Fitz. Sad these men died. They had families and dreams. Good job telling the story.😊
Thanks Darlene...so appreciated. Stop by anytime...HMM
Fun Fact HMM the Schoonmaker is the only surviving boat that was in The White Hurricane of 1913. (To my knowledge.)
Man I didn't know that. Thanks for that info! Captain Darrell and I are wanting to do some video on the Storm of 1913...so thanks! HMM
@HistoryMysteryMan No problem, and I last checked. She is the last ship to survive into present day.
Super interesting...thanks again.@@Ohiotrucker1
My grandpa worked the ore freighters his whole career. He had some stories of frightening adventures and he was unbeatable at any card game. I wish I had taken the time to actually record some of his stories.
Cool stuff Jack; thanks for sharing your stories here. I can't tell you how many times I wished I had recorded the stories from those who have passed. HMM
A fun fact. Three of the former Shenango fleet ships exist, the Schoonmaker, the original William P. Snyder, now the barge St. Marys Challenger and the Shenango II, now the Hon. James. L. Oberstar.
Super interesting info...didn't know that. Thanks for sharing that here. HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan No problem, the Shenango Furnace fleet had six ships in total!
-William P. Snyder.
-Shenango.
-Col. James M. Schoonmaker.
-William P. Snyder Jr.
-Wilpen.
-Shenango II.
I didn't know that...thanks!@@bluerazor7049
I was in Duluth working as a TV News Cameraman with the Fitzgerald sank. Two reports from ships that came into Duluth. 1 a Salty that had seen the storms of the North Sea in winter said that the waves were more violent because of the short reach. There were times when the Bow and Stern were in the waves and there was almost no water under the middle of the boat. Then moments later the Bow and Stern were out of the water and water the wave Crest was sloshing over the rails amidship. The other report was from a Laker that had the railing in front of the pilot house bent towards the windows from a High Wave. They felt lucky it had not smashed the windows.
Super interesting information; thanks for sharing it here. Those ocean salty Captains quickly gain a new level of respect for sailing on the Great Lakes. Thanks for watching, George. HMM
Thank you for posting. I'm from Australia so very unlikely I'll ever get to see in person
You're welcome Shaun...and thanks for being here, all the way from down under yonder! HMM
Nice ! 👍
Thanks! HMM
Much better this is a great video thank you.
You're welcome; thanks for taking the time to watch! HMM
Thank you for sharing this. I could only imagine how scary it would have been to be down there when the ship sank. It goes to show how much the Fitzgerald was in bad shape. They really abused it to the point where it couldn't take it anymore. Its a lesson in knowing how to take care of things so they will last as long as humanly possible. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays
Thanks again, Shawn...always appreciated. As Capt. Darrell said, "they rode her hard and put her away wet." Merry Christmas!
nice
Thanks again Bob...HMM
Excellent video
Thanks Jason...so appreciated. HMM
I could easily write an essay on the Fitzgerald. In my opinion, that boat had absolutely no chance of survival in that storm.
It would be nice the hear your thoughts and theories. I was in the Sault Ste. Marie, ON that night and WHAT A STORM!!!
It would be interesting to hear what you remember about the storm...thanks! HMM
I lived in Sault Ste. Marie, ON and on Nov 10th 1975 I was at high school at basketball practice scheduled 6-9pm. About 7 or 7:30 the gymnasium roof was creaking very loudly. Our coach cancelled practice.
I called home for a ride from phone in hallway remember 10 cents for a call)😂
No answer at my house so a teammate offered me a ride home. The winds and rain were crazy. Winds were coming from due west. I got out of his van at his house and I lived for east. I started home running and almost fell over as my legs almost couldn’t keep me up. It felt like I was there in about 10s. It was just over 100 yards from his place to mine and I was wind assisted. I said to my brother I might have set a world record. He liked listening on his scanner and was it was battery operated and we lost power. We were listening to police reports etc. We didn’t know what was happening.
I remember waking the next day hearing they found life rings and life raft if I recall. Super sad time for the city. Lots of interest in Great Lakes shipping due to the Soo Locks.
I will never forget that night and those brave sailers. 🙏😢
Wow! Fascinating story...thanks for sharing it here. 10 cents for a phone call...that's hysterical. I'm going to visit Sault Ste. Marie in 2024 on my trip to Whitefish Point. What a night that must of have been for you...only to wake up to the news of what happened out there. Thanks again...HMM@@1234clarknj
I’ve seen that ship docked I don’t know how many times going through Toledo, never knew it’s a museum. I’m going to have to stop next time
Yeah...it's well worth your time. There is also lots to see inside the museum too. Thanks for watching...HMM
Great stuff. Sad ending for a great crew and ship.
Thanks for taking the time to watch...HMM
I think what contributes the most to the interest and mystery surrounding the Fitz is that the sinking left no survivors to tell the tale. When you have first hand accounts, it allows the story to be put to rest easier. There was not even a mayday call by the captain, and even though she was seen by those on the Anderson one minute and gone the next, reported missing and had coast guard assets out there looking and reported by news media as missing presumed lost pretty quickly, and eyes on the wreck via submersible surprisingly fast for the time period and the way she was found torn apart, the cause of it all, although I think the bottoming out on shoal/taking on water/bow pushed down by huge wave/plunged and broke apart when striking bottom is most likely, will never be truly known and eternally be debated. Has had me hooked for a long time.
For sure..we'll never know for sure what happened, whether dives are permitted or not. And yes...the eternal debate carries on. This is why it'd be so challenging to make a movie of the Mighty Fitz, because nobody knows what really happened...I mean, how would you end the story? Thanks for your support...HMM
Nice looking ship!
IS this the ship the living nephew, the ex-Lakes captain whose uncle died on the Fitz, said was haunted?
No...that was the SS Middletown. Thanks...HMM
Still heartbreaking after all these years😢
It sure is Debra. Thanks for sharing your thoughts here. HMM
Strange to think that the Fitzgerald's bow could have hit the bottom while the stern was still on the surface. Sank in 530ft of water, and was 730ft long
And many estimates, based on the damage we know about, has her traveling at nearly 40mph when she hit bottom. A jolt like that over her compromised hull could have easily snapped her in two. Thanks for watching...HMM
And if one 30 foot wave drove the bow down to bottom, the second could have slapped the stern and added to the separation of the stern?
You can thank Gordon Lightfoot, for his song and keeping the memory of the Edmund Fitzgerald alive. If it was not for his song, no one would know about the ship wreck. So you can thank a CANADAIN for keeping the memory alive!
No doubt...Lightfoot shared the story of the Mighty Fitz with the world...and always grateful for his contributions. Although I wouldn't say "no one". As a Great Lakes mariner, this story resonates deeply with me, even without the song. Thanks. Go Lions. HMM
Thanks for sharing this! I’ve never been out there but this I’ll definitely have to add to my bucket list. I visited the Valley Camp about 10 years ago probably, back then I was just a kid and didn’t recognize the significance of the Fitzgerald as much as I do now. I don’t remember it too well but I hope to go back to it one day. Have you ever been to the Valley Camp?
I have not been to Valley Camp and know nothing about it...
@@HistoryMysteryMan I don’t know much about it either but it is 6 years younger than the Schoonmaker and is in Sault St Marie. My favorite part of the ship is that it has the lifeboats of the Fitzgerald and it felt so surreal to be in there. I hope I can go back to the ship one day. Just to see the Lifeboats again would be something. I can’t remember what else they had there but it was something. I hope you can visit it, you’d love it!
Crazy to think that they were built 45 years or so apart and almost identical
I know...never really thought about that...super interesting. Thanks for sharing your thoughts here. HMM
Thats terrifying that some of them may have survived a short time in a air pocket
Beyond terrifying. Thanks Shane...for sharing your thoughts here. HMM
Need to make a note that the Fitz's clamps were a different style clamp compared to the Schoonmaker.
Got it...thanks for that. Same concept though...batten down the hatches or else. HMM
Even though the crew passed away physically they live on forever in every one’s memory
Very true...and that's a good thing. We'll keep working to keep their memories alive...thanks George. HMM
The crews of the fleet used to eat at Pacos while the ships were being loaded and unloaded.
Absolutely...all the mariners loved Packos! Thanks for watching...HMM
Where did they find that guide ?
He's an unpaid volunteer...grateful for that. HMM
Any Fitz crew holed up in a cabin or the engine room would know the ship was underwater quickly due to lack of pitching and rolling motions, once the ship was submerged.
Can't imagine the the fear in those sailors when she went under. Thanks...HMM
Beautiful ship. Separate dining quarters for officers and crew isn't even a thing on the new ships built for Canada Steamship Lines. Even the PRT still has the Captain's dining room, although the Captain and officers only dine in it when there are guests. Things are much more egalitarian nowadays.
So the newer egalitarian thing...is that a good thing?
I would love to tour that but Ohio is a long way off.
It's be worth it. Where you from? Thanks for watching...HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan south Mississippi, I’ve seen a lot as a kid but parents are gone so I don’t get to travel like I used too
Mississippi...how cool. You stop by this chat room anytime...thanks for your support. HMM@@robwiggins6319
Very good video.i sailed the great lakes for 30 years on the canadian side.some if what you say is true. During summer we only put the corner vlamps on sometimes one or 2 in the middle. That was from june till anytime in September, after that all clamps on. As for the rooms,i never hot bunked but on some boats i shared a room and ithers i had my iwn room but shared a bathroom in between. The whole crew rooms you couldnt access from the outside to each room,you had to walk indide and fown the hall. The fitz was the sameway. No sonar wouldnt have helped him dince he didnt really know whete he was at with no radar and very limited visibility. As far as people alive.ill say no. The bow part with the windows blown out,water would rush in but from bow to stern on noth sides of the ship would have been the crew tunnels.they would use in bad weather to ho back for supper or anything.water would have rushed in there and flooded the bow fast . Either way in the bow they were dead by the time they hit the bottom. Same as the stern . If it broke apart on the surface,the stern could have stayed afloat for a few seconds longer but the rush of water from the tunnels then if the steam engines didnt explod when the cold water hit them. Remember the engineers turned iff the boilers on the titanic so they eouldnt explode.
Very interesting commentary; thanks for sharing it here. Your points make a lot of sense. HMM
I got them same flooring tiles in my house.
That's cool! Thanks for watching...HMM
i started dating a girl in June of 1976 - in Nov. there was a program about the Fitzgerald & that is when she told me her & her girlfriend were guests on it - must be with her girlfriends parents too because her dad was a Dr. here in Lorain Ohio
That's super interesting. Is that gal still around? She would be an interesting interview...thanks. HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan sad to say things did not work out - she met another - got married - he passed on - then she did also about a year or so ago - but thanks for the reply
The ship lost it vent stacks on the bow. Letting water in with ever wave. Look up the ships last call. That's what he told them.
Understood. It wasn't the "last" call from/to the Fitz but that call you spoke of did come in...earlier in the day. Thanks...HMM
I have a black and white Polaroid picture of the Edmund Fitzgerald, (circ. 1950's) that I had found in my late uncle's picture album that I received from my mother many years ago. My uncle had been in tool and die I believe at one time. The ship is on dry-dock and doesn't look totally complete, but its name is clearly visible. I would like to donate it to some museum, so, if anyone has any suggestions, please leave a comment. Namaste. From a Vietnam Era Marine Corps veteran.
First of all, thanks for your service...so much respect. I'm sure the National Museum of the Great Lakes in Toledo would be interested in the photo; I can assure you that I am. I'd love to see a copy of the photo...thanks, Charles. HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan I just want to thank you for such a wonderful and informative video and narration. Grew up near downriver Detroit and so many memories of seeing the Fitzgerald and other Lakers. Upon going thru the album years ago, I was caught off-guard and totally surprised when I saw the name of this fateful ship and her crew. The picture is presently at My Son's home, as I live 3 hours away, but will make a Spring run there and contact you and send a pic. I use to sail on Lake Erie back in the 80's with a sailing crew and have great memories of the Lakers. I will definitely visit and give it to the museum. Namaste. Semper Fi!
You're welcome; thanks for taking an interest in what we're doing. Great place to grow up...downriver Detroit...sure wish we were watching the Lions in the Super Bowl. I'd be grateful to see that pic...thanks sir! HMM@@charlesmiddleton3247
i do think where ever a crewman was at - they were either knockout or killed before it went down from beating they took by the waves - some i think some are still inside somewhere - that's why no dives are allowed anymore since one man was spotted on the lake floor wearing a life jacket
10-4. I would venture to say that they're all still inside, with the exception of one (that we know of). Bodies were never recovered which means they're still on the ship. Had they remained on the surface, some of the bodies would have washed ashore eventually at Whitefish. Thanks for watching...HMM
H man, this is reall cool. You would be the guy that would be able to tell me....something I have never heard anyone talk about.
The Fitz. Look at the underwater pics. The sun sheild over the windows of the pilothouse, they are all bent pretty badly. This didn't happen from hitting the bottom. Why are they bent? Nose diving as Cooper and other have speculated, does not seem to be logical to me especially if they were already low in thd water. Huge waves might have done it. But they were running with the waves.
Really it can only be from nose diving or huge waves smashing down on her.
What does Captain Ned, or whatever his name is, think? How about you?
Super interesting thoughts...and thanks for sharing them here. It is widely understood that the pilot house visor got all wrinkled up when it made contact with the bottom...and many believe it was traveling at possibly 30-35mph when she landed. But you got me thinking; that's for sure...but I just can't see anything else that would bend the visor other than crashing into the bottom...but I'm open for thought on this. Captain Darrell thinks the visor bent when it landed. Thanks for chiming in...HMM
My Dad had it nailed. She lost positive bouncy and nose dived at a pretty good angle. Had she gone straight down, the visor would be bent up. Nose dive, Rouge wave, 3 Sisters. Only the crew in the Pilot House know for sure. And some day so will we.
@darrellwalton938 good thoughts Darrell. Love your style by the way.
Darrell is the best...thanks! HMM @@jimflys2
I spend quite a bit if time near Whitefish Point which is 13 miles from where Edmund Fitzgerald went down. There is a Shipwreck Museum at the lighthouse. Very interesting.
Awesome! I'm planning a trip to Whitefish Point in 2024...super excited. Thanks for chiming in...HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan It is beautiful up there. My sister owns property on Whitefish Bay. A friend of ours who lives there sent picture of 3 iron ore freighters taking shelter from December storm last year. Was nighttime so beautiful with ship lights. Thats where the Fitz was heading for shelter.
That sounds so nice. I am so thankful I grew up and still live around the Great Lakes...so much magic...and of course Superior being the granddaddy of them all. Can't wait to visit... @@theresamccant459
@@HistoryMysteryMan Make sure you stop at food truck in Paradise. Great Whitefish dinners. We may move up there next year.
Based on your recommendation, I'll be chowing away at the food truck...sounds like paradise. Thanks.@@theresamccant459
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The pressure would have killed them by about 150ft i reckon. I know theres first hand accounts of folks hearing an explosion from the titanic shortly after she left the surface. That noise was less likely the boilers and more likely the remaining air in the stern exploding outward circa 150 to 200ft (if memory serves).
I cannot imagine how horrifying it was but it would have been quick.
RIP to these brave 29
We hope it was quick. So...is your opinion that some of the water tight compartments -- bunks/quarters and such -- could not have stayed water tight on the bottom of Superior? Thanks...HMM
@@HistoryMysteryMan
Theoretically parts of the bowels of the ship may have somehow stayed water tight but I think its extremely unlikely. Purpose built submarine from this era of construction were not generally looking to exceed this depth by much (boleo and gatto class submarines would be nearing their limit and the early nautilus class could do it). A rusted hulk built for the surface probably wouldn't fair well but I cannot conclusively say there could be a part where significantly compressed air wouldn't have somehow pooled during the shifting of the vessel to the bottom.
I do think the immediate 33 atmosphere pressure differential would have blown out every organ with an airpocket causing nearly instant fatal damage to any souls who took the ride.
Ear drums and lungs violently imploding etc.
We descend slowly as we dive to allow these force to equalize naturally with our pressurized gas.
En example:
When my dad was at Duke University in the 70s the had a hyperbaric chamber in the medical school and they were working with navy divers to do research on long term exposure to being held under deep pressure. The guys would go live in there for a week or two at a time and they would crank it up to simulate serious depth.
They had an airlock they could pass things through (food etc). One of the cool things you could do supposedly was take a normal Styrofoam cup and put it in the airlock and pressurize it to their level and it would come into the chamber smaller than a shot glass.
Essentially this would have happened violently from such rapid pressure increase.
The Kursk (Russian submarine) went down in similar depths with all hands onboard. Many did survive that (fairly modern submarine for the purpose of this conversation). Those poor men did survive for quite awhile before ... if memory serves some spark of something lit one of the gases in the vessel and basically burned all the oxygen out of the enviroment. Extremely grim stuff.
I wouldn't consider myself any manner of expert but I would very very strongly doubt Fitz at launch would have held air that deep let alone on the night she broke apart.
The way Fitz went down is one of the more horrifying wreck scenarios I can imagine though. It's hard to fathom the horrible noises that must have been created.
@@AArdW01f Thanks for this detailed explanation of your thoughts. No matter when the crew passed over, I pray it was fast without prolonged suffering. Thanks again...I appreciate your expertise and willingness to share here. HMM
And yet diving on the Fitz is still prohibited I'm with captain Darrell why is it you can dive on all these other sunken shipwrecks like the Bradley and the morrell but the Fitz is off limits very odd I'd say
Good question. The Canadian government has officially ruled the Fitz off-limits. I don't see that changing, but never say never. Thanks for your interest...HMM
Outro music 👍
I love your videos very interesting
Thanks again, Bob...I appreciate you! HMM
Neat name, schoonmaker is outside of a last name like here is a job wich translates to cleaner in dutch
That's interesting! Thanks for sharing it here! HMM
I wonder if everyone got blown out of the bow
Good question. We know that the pilot house is empty so more than likely (for those who were in the pilot house) they were thrust back down the inside steps to the area below...and are still there. For those already tucked inside their watertight cabins in the bow area, I believe they are still in their cabins...their eternal mausoleums.
Just a thought !
In my opinion, the Fitzgerald is not the Titanic of the Great Lakes. The James C. Caruthers is. I understand why the Fitzgerald went to the bottom of Lake Superior.
Interesting. Now I want to learn about the Caruthers...so thanks for that. Maybe I should say the Fitz is the most famous shipwreck on the Great Lakes (because of Lightfoot's song) rather than the Titanic of the Lakes. HMM
"When suppertime came, the old cook came on deck ......."
I just watched..
Thanks Chuck! Bubba