Maybe a famous ship that was just left to rot or sold off even though it's famous now. Like the ultimate fate of Nina, Pinta, Santa Maria, Mayflower, the Jamestown ships, or something like that. Its tragic when a ship goes down with all hands but it's a different tragedy when a vessel changes the world and is then treated like a used car afterward
As a truck driver, similar things still happen when dispatch or shippers/consignees try to pressure you into driving in inclement weather. We even have a phrase for such times: "you're the captain of the ship" Thankfully we're in such a position that DOT will have our backs, and plenty of other better companies will be willing to hire us if a bad company lets us go for waiting out a storm. Safety is more rewarded and strictly enforced nowadays; lives aren't worth any amount of money, and especially not when it's not even your money!
As a truck driver of 20yrs myself I must disagree with the dot will back you up statement. I have never heard the DOT coming to the aid of a driver that was fired because they wouldn't run in the snow.
@@TruthSeeker.357it's in the policies they set forth. Like mandating the maximum number of hours you can drive in a day. . In the days of old truck drivers would chain smoke nonfilters so the cigs would burn them awake if they went into a pre-sleep daze and companies would demand back to back shifts and penalize the driver for needing sleep. If you cannot identify all the policies DOT has implemented to have your back then you need look into the actual policies and quit listening to politicians that only have the customers and company in mind with their nonsensical calls to "deregulate"
@@norml.hugh-mann you seem to be under the impression the DOT and corporations are against eachother. They are not, big government and big business is now one in the same.
The fact remains is that the final decision to sail or to drive or to fly rests on the captain he makes the final call regardless of company pressure or get there-idis or whatever it may be I see it in general aviation far too frequently where a pilot will be in a hurry and make the rash decision to fly in conditions that are far beyond his or her abilities and get themselves and their passengers killed. We have credit cards for a reason? and it's much better to get a hotel room and wait it out and live to see another day than to push your luck especially if there are other souls you are responsible for.
I wear the scars of one company's greed, Teledyne Continental Castings, when they removed so many of the safety systems from the die casting machines just to satisfy UAW union's demands. They always knew when OSHA's sick joke of inspectors was coming and the worst offending machines were always "down for maintenance" only to be fired right back up immediately after the OSHA "inspectors" left. Getting sprayed with molten aluminum is something no man, or woman, should ever have to endure.
As a Marquette native one of the first things you learn is to respect mother Superior. No one wins when the lake is angry. As true today as it was in 1913
I first laid eyes on superior in 2004 from Green Bay . Just a quick blowup summer storm passed south of my location but close enough to get a nice punch of wind. To see how quickly that lake changed gave me a whole different modicum of respect for "gitchee gumee".
Yes sir. Mother Nature along with Mother Superior is no joke. The Great Lakes are so vast that it's seas can be just as angry, or worse, than the great North Atlantic in winter.
@Robert Keeton actually from what I've heard worse because the waves are closer in between each other being from the Midwest I've always had respect for mother nature and respect for any kind of water body around the world because if you don't your dead
The pictures of the ship sitting on the bottom is really eerie to me. I'd be scared to dive on it because you never know what might be floating around in the ships belly. Remember, they say that the lakes never give up their dead.
@@MrChopsticktech only 2 of the bodies were ever recovered ....and your comprehension skills need some attention....one body was found floating soon after and one skeleton was found a year later....no doubt not floating....
Having spent a considerable amount of time at sea myself, and riding storms that tossed our 410 foot vessel like a stick; I fully hold the suits around the boardroom table responsible for this loss, and many others. They’re sitting safe in their cubic offices on land, second guessing the men who are standing on the bulkheads and sailing their vessels like a surfer in the breakers. Corporate suits who have never been to sea have no idea what it’s really like out there, where the closest land is a mile away…beneath the keel. Unless they’ve had to clean their own footprints off the bulkheads and overhead, known the sound of air beneath the hull and the screws popping out of the water while the bow is submerged; they have no say in how a Captain works his vessel.
Ultimately the blame for the ship leaving port during bad weather was on the captain, BUT it is totally unfair for the company to put him in this position. It was death or career death. Basically, lose, lose for the captain and especially nowadays, we can't fathom that kind of decision. I feel for the captain, and for all those men that were lost!
100% blame the greedy bastards at the company. It’s clear the captain would not have taken the risk of they had not put his livelihood on the line. I hope they lived with the weight of those lives lost around their necks the rest of their pathetic existence.
More that one skipper has ended their career because of things like this. Both civilian, and military. Either because they felt that they must follow orders, or because they refused.
@@Cheezwizzz Adjusted for inflation? $10,270,000 in 2023 for the vessel, $1,150,000 for the cargo. "Vessel insured for $338,000; cargo of iron ore, at $38,000." That's roughly replacement costs for the ship.
The captain had the right to refuse and be fired. The captain is the best and final ability to decide. The captain must decide not only for his own safety but for the crew. The reason I get on a plane is because the pilot has decided that it is safe enough for himself to take the trip; I would never fly in a remotely controlled plane. Yes the company was wrong and ignorant.
@@marcleblanc3602 those captains didnt have their jobs on the line. they dont understand his point of view or why he did what he did. im 100% confident they would have all taken the same choice to go out if they were told "on time or youre fired". its easy to say you wouldnt but back then you didnt disrespect your superiors and you didnt risk your job for stupid prideful reasons. he SHOULD have stayed at port but as many have said, he was told to go or be fired, what options did he really have?
For my college history class I've decided to study shipwrecks of the Great Lakes. I hadn't found much on the on the SS Henry B Smith but knowing the story now fits perfectly within the argument for my essay. Thank you for helping to inspire my maritime historical interest!
Thanks for doing so many stories of our Great Lakes. There is so much history out here it is insane. 6000 estimated wrecks in our written history. There was also an announcement made today April 11, 2023 about the wrecks of 2 of 3 ships lost in a November 1914 storm being found. A tradegy on Lake Superior with ALL HANDS lost on ALL 3 ships The C.F. Curtis, Selden E. Marvin, and Annie M. Peterson. It may be a new story to read into. Cheers
The end of the video you showed the crewman being swung over the side to take the ropes of the ship… my father did this as a British merchant seaman on the great lakes in the 60s so I’ll show him … He went on to be a boatman mooring ships in the UK and I’ve followed in his footsteps, my son will be next to follow in a long line of boatman and seaman in our family! ⚓️⚓️⚓️
Born and raised in Michigan. You are taught to respect the great lakes at a young age. Superior has always been my favorite as she's so wild. But in November she is down right dangerous.
I wouldn't say so. Generally, Great Lakes wrecks are often more famous than wrecks that happen on the seas and oceans, because there's less of them. The most famous wreck of the Great Lakes is the Edmund Fitzgerald, a freighter. Sea going freighters usually don't get much press when they sink. They remain largely unknown.
@@nickklavdianos5136 No the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald became so famous because it was the first too be seen on national news, and even some international news. Even the ceremony for the sailors was broadcast on national news and some international news networks.. There were other that were reported by local news stations around the Great Lakes, before the Edmund Fitzgerald. And Gordon Lightfoot helped make it famous, because of the song he wrote, and sang helped make it so famous. And Gordon Lightfoot even as good as he was at telling stories through songs couldn't convey one thing. And that's how haunting the sound of the bell ringing 29 times at the memorial ceremony for the lost sailors on that ship sounded. How do I know all of this, because I watched all of it on the news, because I wasn't allowed to go to school until I had seen a doctor about the nosebleeds that I kept getting in classes. Name one wreck that has happened in the Great lakes, since the Edmund Fitzgerald sank that's even half as famous. I'll be glad too wait.
@thebigdog2295 while all of this is true, it should be noted that one of the reasons there hasn't been a famous shipwreck on the lakes since the Fitz is because there hasn't been another sinking of a large freighter since the Fitz sank. The changes made after that wreck made shipping MUCH safer.
@@thebigdog2295 well, you said it yourself, the Edmund Fitzgerald got massive press coverage. Name one cargo ship that shank in the ocean and got an equal amount of press. I don't think what I'm saying is controversial in any way. Shipwrecks in the Great lakes are less than open sea shipwrecks and thus can become individually more famous. Most of the famous open sea shipwrecks are either wartime losses or passenger ships that were lost with massive loss of life. No one talks that much about cargo ships going down.
Every one of these ore carriers, no matter how fierce the storm is, will always bring me back to the Edmund Fitzgerald (for obvious reasons), but to believe that these were their predecessors and they succumbed to the same fate as the Fitz in the same way, just baffles me. It shows the ferocity of the Great Lakes in winter and how dangerous these sailor's jobs actually are.
What a lethal combination of factors and decisions. That is perhaps among the worst type of maritime disaster, lost without a trace and with an aura of tragic mystery.
If you think you're going to lose not only a job, but a reputation, you do irrational things. That so many were caught out by the storm possibly shows that this Captain was not alone. (But i am not an historian.)
For the last couple of weeks I've learned so much about the Great Lakes and the storm that sank so many ships, it's quite harrowing to know about all this suddenly. I'm European so we don't hear much of American history unless we dig deep on our own and these videos really teach me stuff about ships and boats in general along with some other channels 🙌🏻 Keep up the good work with the videos!
Even in the US these stories aren't widely known out of the Great Lakes region. Even though they loom large on the map people hear "lakes" and their imagination stops. They think they're just really big versions of an average lake they go boating on. Really they are inland freshwater seas, with all the accompanying majesty and terror.
Even in college here in the US they don't teach much about the history of places like this. My daughter said in college (2008) , they only teach world history where it affected the US.
Another great story; thanks B.O.B. I would have to think at least some of his time tested and experienced crew would have questioned the wisdom of this trip . But loyalty to their captain outweighed their better judgment. I don’t think you will ever run out of stories that depict selfless sacrifice and dedication, regardless of the occupation, especially in this era. I’d also like to mention I think it neat how the operator of the Hullet unloader sat in a cab just above the bucket.
I work at the Great Lakes Shipwreck Museum at Whitefish Point. I really enjoy being able to hear these stories while I am working around the house. Sometimes it's hard to find time to sit down and read a book. I like the speed at which you narrate. Looking forward to listening to many more.
I don’t possess what it takes to go that far out on any body of water. But, I get so excited when I hear of anyone discovering an old ship. I admire both sets of sailors. The ones who sank. As well, as the ones who find them. God bless them all!!!
All these videos are fantastic. I'm originally from Michigan and lived a chunk of my life about 15 mins from Lake St Clair, and a half hour from lake Huron. Spent a lot of time on or in the lakes. But I got so sick of the brutally short summers and even more brutally long winters, I moved to Phoenix. Just could not deal with another winter. Been in Phoenix 5 years now and absolutely no regrets. But the stories and all the wrecks on the lakes have always fascinated me.
A tremendous video! Thank you for your work, and excellent pictures! A suggestion for a future video...the D.M. CLEMSON, lost in 1908. Once again, thank you for increasing boat lovers and historians for your outstanding video!
Yes, even off the Lake we are fortunate folks care through Social Security in some cases, and food pantries. 'Pride can lead to a fall' 'Haste makes waste.' Nature taught by Indians when to traverse any distance of Lake, my personal opinion. Overreliance on cheaper fuel overtrusted then.
You videos are so well done. I really enjoy the format and your narration is just the perfect tone. Thank you for your research and hard work to bring these stories to life.
Very interesting subject material as a Detroiter I approve. It’s certainly a very emotive tale & it’s been told exceptionally well. I’ve head it before theres actually a documentary out there perhaps from the 90’s that uses older interviews possibly 80’s vintage sailors who survived the white hurricane. Yours properly asked the provocative question of who’s really responsible while zooming into the captain and bringing him to life instead of just an old photograph.
Superb look at this disaster as always! Always impressed by you're videos. The wreck just sat on the bottom is so haunting as they scan past the name on the bow...
I love your channel! The narration is calm and informative and your attention to detail is great! Thank you for the wonderful, informative, entertainment!
I’ve always been intrigued by this story and have read as much as I can find. Your treatment of the fate of the HB Smith is the best effort to tell the story I have seen. Thanks for the great work.
Yup the Marquette ore dock is still loading boats, until the Tilden mine stops producing iron ore pellets. The ore dock being used today is not the one that was used then.
This happened in an era where weather reporting and prediction was very much in its infancy- and very antiquated. Many ship captains viewed the weather bureau with skepticism and derision. It was also not believed that an inland hurricane could occur. A lethal combination of factors led to this, and so many other ships and sailors being lost.
I have to say, that description is top notch when it comes to a quick run down of the subject matter for someone who knew exactly nothing about the topic before hand.
Thank you for these beautiful poeces of film. Truly a treasure. Thank you for your indepth reasearch on ships who no one ever heard about. I very much like your documentories
We recently went to a small Canadian town's museum. One section was dedicated to WWI. There was a list of the dead, one section of the list had about 20 men that listed why they were shot. One stood out. Refused an officer's order. Captain Owen was in a similar position Do or Die. Loss or work for him would have meant poverty and not being able to look after his family.
I'm working as a shipping agent and I deal with the captain on board.. sometimes when we are more free we tend to talk about sailing a vessel.. I don't blame captain Owen for his decision.Even today captains are under heavy pressure should there be many delays..only when it concerns safety the captain has final say but that hopefully the captain made the right decision.. As for captain Owen,well he was forced involuntarily to sail..I felt sorry for the whole crew..RIP As you said at the closing of the video,the top brass sits in the comfort of their office but the crews are the one on board.
They were certainly sad at the loss of the ship. That was expensive after all. If you mean did they care about the loss of the crew, clearly not. It's all numbers on a spreadsheet to people like that.
Greed is a strong motivator causing the loss of many people and ships. I enjoy your videos and just scratch my head why such experienced captains would risk their lives on the lakes in November
This was like with all your videos an amazing job well done, Bradley. One ship I really want you to cover is one of my top 10 favorite ocean liners, The SS Burdigala ex. german liner SS Kaiser Friedrich. I really wish you cover this amazing but troubled ship. Cheers!!!
As a long time resident of Michigan's Upper Peninsula I've been to the ore docks in Marquette many times. The storms on Lake Superior are truly awe inspiring and nothing to take lightly.
Your uploads are quickly becoming a high spot of my weekend, Bradley. Appreciate the effort you're putting into these fascinating tales of the sea. (And great lakes!) Thanks for all your hard work. It really shows. Enough singing your praises now, i eanna watch this new video. Permission to come aboard, Sir.?
Thank you so much for what you do. I really enjoy the stories and you and the history mystery man are two of my favorites. Hope you keep up the good work.
I drive trucks here in England and my boss always says "your the captain of your ship" when it comes to making decisions regarding my working day, to be put under that kind of pressure when you have other people to think about is ethically and morally wrong and just shows how companies put profit above all else. The captain's reputation would have been unquestionable had he gone with his experience and not his own ambition. My own personal opinion. A great video I find the great lakes absolutely fascinating
Great Lakes shipwreck history is unmatched. The fact that all this history took place in fresh water, 2.5 thousand miles from any ocean, is baffling. It truly has no rival, an anomoly. As for Captain Owen's decision? At the time it probably didnt seem like he had a choice at all.
Just found your channel and I love how you bring the story to life. And you have a very soothing voice which is great for this channel. Liked and following!! 😊
I have recently discovered your channel and have been binging on your videos. You do fantastic work. Thank you for your dedication and hard work on this fascinating subject. Both of my parents were born in Duluth and my mother had her ashes spread over the North Shore of Lake Superior.
Great video. Fantastic job. The responsibility falls on the captain in the end unfortunately. You can always get another job, sadly the crew has very little to no say in the matter. Look forward to your next video. I was wondering if you have ever done a video on the Edna G. One of the oldest tugboats on the lakes out of Two Harbors MN ? Thanks. 👍👍
There is still pressure in today's world as well my dad was an old captains and I followed in his footsteps he taught me this " I would rather the company be mad at me and still have a license than the company be mad at me with no license " I make my decisions based on that to this day I never want to be the guy that gets someone killed or hurt . sometimes I am hard on my guys but for good reason There absolutely nothing we do that is so dire that we can't be safe while doing it good day
The Captain knew Lake Superior and knew enough to protect his ship and crew, but some bean counter in a distant safe office insisted that Captain Owen make the run and threatened his livelihood. The Captain was not given any option. So the blame should fall squarely the company and those who threatened Captain Owen's career.
Sad that Capt Owen had a reputation of taking care of his ship and his crew and by all accounts was a popular and competent mariner. One bad decision under duress and it’s all for naught.
It's really unfair that the captain gets name dropped personally as possibly responsible for the sinking, but the company owners trying to force him into it are anonymous.
My Grandfather worked the docks in Duluth when he was a young man. I found some pictures that my father took from an ore boat of passing through the Soo Locks in 1947. I didn’t know anything about this trip or much about my grandfather’s work. Really enjoy your show. My Grandfather was a milkman in Detroit when I was young, my Grandmother was from Windsor. There was something about running whiskey I don’t know much about either. When I was 10 I didn’t understand why I always felt safe at my Grandparents in a part of Detroit that I didn’t belong in.
Love your documentaries with the Great Lakes being my favorites. Being from Michigan would love to see a more in-depth on Rogers City, Bradley Fleet and Port Calcite. Also, what is the guitar melody used? It is simple and haunting at the same time love it!
Wonderful yet tragic stories of the shipping days of the Great lakes. As a scuba diver the wrecks are amazing bits of history and wonderment of the days, the living conditions, the working conditions, etc. of the shipping industry. I lived in Kenosha, WI and we very frequently dove the SS Wisconsin, SS Milwaukee, the Rosinco & many others on the southern end of Lake Michigan. The waters of Mackinaw also had some fantastic wrecks as well.( again, from a divers perspective.
It's clear that a captain with a record like his would never have made the call to sail under the conditions present that day. But if he was indeed under threat of losing his career, that's a mighty big incentive to make a gamble when you might not normally do so. And he was not the only captain under duress that day. Many a captain was under the same pressure to get one last load in before the end of the season. Many ships and many good men were lost as a result, and the public outcry was loud. Many of the men who survived the storm had to be begged to return the following season because of the shortage of experienced hands. The shipping companies did not face direct penalties for the needless loss of life, but things changed forever after that storm, and the indirect cost to the shipping companies was, while discreet, certainly still harsh. Never again would a November Gale be regarded with complacency. And for years afterward, many men thought twice about challenging the weather on the lakes. Some never went back, unwilling to face the sea that had taken so many friends and family.
Nothing has changed since this boat and crew were lost, senior management never gives a damn about the people that are risking their lives because it’s never management putting their lives on the line. I have noticed a little bit of a trend in a number of these boats lost on the Great Lakes is that the just one last run thing seems to be deadly.
The way story after story on the Lakes is "the company wanted the captain to make one more run before the season ended"...it's just incredibly depressing.
It’s so sad and infuriating that company pushed the captain like they did. I really hope they at least had the balls to tell his and the crew’s families what happened
Does anyone know what the headline "Wilson Ready to Aid Rebels" refers to on the paper shown at 12:36? I thought it might be about conflict in Mexico at the time but I can't find anything about President Wilson supporting rebels there.
Thank you so much for watching! What should I cover next?
Maybe a famous ship that was just left to rot or sold off even though it's famous now. Like the ultimate fate of Nina, Pinta, Santa Maria, Mayflower, the Jamestown ships, or something like that. Its tragic when a ship goes down with all hands but it's a different tragedy when a vessel changes the world and is then treated like a used car afterward
Herald Of Free Enterprise or the
Estonia!
Another white star line shipwreck or just there history in general. Or better yet the RMS Carpathia and her story.
@@thomascampbell127 the Olympic and the hawke disaster
I know its not your usual subject but Typhoon Cobra and Task Force 38 ?
As a truck driver, similar things still happen when dispatch or shippers/consignees try to pressure you into driving in inclement weather. We even have a phrase for such times: "you're the captain of the ship" Thankfully we're in such a position that DOT will have our backs, and plenty of other better companies will be willing to hire us if a bad company lets us go for waiting out a storm. Safety is more rewarded and strictly enforced nowadays; lives aren't worth any amount of money, and especially not when it's not even your money!
As a truck driver of 20yrs myself I must disagree with the dot will back you up statement. I have never heard the DOT coming to the aid of a driver that was fired because they wouldn't run in the snow.
@@TruthSeeker.357it's in the policies they set forth. Like mandating the maximum number of hours you can drive in a day. . In the days of old truck drivers would chain smoke nonfilters so the cigs would burn them awake if they went into a pre-sleep daze and companies would demand back to back shifts and penalize the driver for needing sleep. If you cannot identify all the policies DOT has implemented to have your back then you need look into the actual policies and quit listening to politicians that only have the customers and company in mind with their nonsensical calls to "deregulate"
@@norml.hugh-mann you seem to be under the impression the DOT and corporations are against eachother. They are not, big government and big business is now one in the same.
That's a true story truck driver. I believe all dispatchers should be x truck drivers
The fact remains is that the final decision to sail or to drive or to fly rests on the captain he makes the final call regardless of company pressure or get there-idis or whatever it may be I see it in general aviation far too frequently where a pilot will be in a hurry and make the rash decision to fly in conditions that are far beyond his or her abilities and get themselves and their passengers killed. We have credit cards for a reason? and it's much better to get a hotel room and wait it out and live to see another day than to push your luck especially if there are other souls you are responsible for.
Companies still pressure people into doing questionable activities even nowadays.
God bless the crew 🙏
Agreed
happens all the time in warehouse work, manufacturing, trucking, and freight rail. Probably in air freight and sea freight as well.
And getting worse every year as the union’s and workers in general lose numbers and power the companies grow richer and greedier
And the companies always try to blame the crew.
I wear the scars of one company's greed, Teledyne Continental Castings, when they removed so many of the safety systems from the die casting machines just to satisfy UAW union's demands. They always knew when OSHA's sick joke of inspectors was coming and the worst offending machines were always "down for maintenance" only to be fired right back up immediately after the OSHA "inspectors" left. Getting sprayed with molten aluminum is something no man, or woman, should ever have to endure.
As a Marquette native one of the first things you learn is to respect mother Superior. No one wins when the lake is angry. As true today as it was in 1913
And 1975..
Meaning a gut from the Midwest I have respect for any bodies of water and also respect mother nature because she's mean
I first laid eyes on superior in 2004 from Green Bay . Just a quick blowup summer storm passed south of my location but close enough to get a nice punch of wind. To see how quickly that lake changed gave me a whole different modicum of respect for "gitchee gumee".
Yes sir. Mother Nature along with Mother Superior is no joke. The Great Lakes are so vast that it's seas can be just as angry, or worse, than the great North Atlantic in winter.
@Robert Keeton actually from what I've heard worse because the waves are closer in between each other being from the Midwest I've always had respect for mother nature and respect for any kind of water body around the world because if you don't your dead
The pictures of the ship sitting on the bottom is really eerie to me. I'd be scared to dive on it because you never know what might be floating around in the ships belly. Remember, they say that the lakes never give up their dead.
Decently likely you would encounter an adipocere (soapstone) mummy in that lake.
@@AArdW01f yeah. deep cold waters. bodies won't just rot. they'll stay until critters eat them. but there's not many critters.
Did you watch the video? Two of the crew were found floating. Quite a few other bodies have been recovered over the years as well.
@@MrChopsticktech only 2 of the bodies were ever recovered ....and your comprehension skills need some attention....one body was found floating soon after and one skeleton was found a year later....no doubt not floating....
Plus its 600' feet deep
Having spent a considerable amount of time at sea myself, and riding storms that tossed our 410 foot vessel like a stick; I fully hold the suits around the boardroom table responsible for this loss, and many others. They’re sitting safe in their cubic offices on land, second guessing the men who are standing on the bulkheads and sailing their vessels like a surfer in the breakers. Corporate suits who have never been to sea have no idea what it’s really like out there, where the closest land is a mile away…beneath the keel. Unless they’ve had to clean their own footprints off the bulkheads and overhead, known the sound of air beneath the hull and the screws popping out of the water while the bow is submerged; they have no say in how a Captain works his vessel.
Ultimately the blame for the ship leaving port during bad weather was on the captain, BUT it is totally unfair for the company to put him in this position. It was death or career death. Basically, lose, lose for the captain and especially nowadays, we can't fathom that kind of decision. I feel for the captain, and for all those men that were lost!
100% blame the greedy bastards at the company. It’s clear the captain would not have taken the risk of they had not put his livelihood on the line. I hope they lived with the weight of those lives lost around their necks the rest of their pathetic existence.
They were probably more shaken up about having to get a new boat.
More that one skipper has ended their career because of things like this. Both civilian, and military. Either because they felt that they must follow orders, or because they refused.
I’m sure they had a huge insurance policy on the ship and cargo.
@@Cheezwizzz Adjusted for inflation? $10,270,000 in 2023 for the vessel, $1,150,000 for the cargo. "Vessel insured for $338,000; cargo of iron ore, at $38,000." That's roughly replacement costs for the ship.
@@Cheezwizzz Sure, but dealing with insurance companies is annoying.
I blame the company, and it's owner(s). I'm sure like many companies, they were never held accountable. Some things never change. Great video!
I was thinking the same thing!
The captain had the right to refuse and be fired.
The captain is the best and final ability to decide.
The captain must decide not only for his own safety but for the crew.
The reason I get on a plane is because the pilot has decided that it is safe enough for himself to take the trip; I would never fly in a remotely controlled plane.
Yes the company was wrong and ignorant.
@@mikyl-fo8rh Same, he had 50% responsability, even the less safer Captain refused to go out. For his job he took a very unlucky bad day risk.
@@marcleblanc3602 m
@@marcleblanc3602 those captains didnt have their jobs on the line. they dont understand his point of view or why he did what he did. im 100% confident they would have all taken the same choice to go out if they were told "on time or youre fired". its easy to say you wouldnt but back then you didnt disrespect your superiors and you didnt risk your job for stupid prideful reasons. he SHOULD have stayed at port but as many have said, he was told to go or be fired, what options did he really have?
So many disasters and accidents would have never happened if costs were viewed less important than lives. Loved the video!
For my college history class I've decided to study shipwrecks of the Great Lakes. I hadn't found much on the on the SS Henry B Smith but knowing the story now fits perfectly within the argument for my essay. Thank you for helping to inspire my maritime historical interest!
Hopefully your essay will be unbiased as you can make it..Good luck on study!
Check out "The Last Laker" by Fred Stonehouse.
Remember: just the facts. Reports are not for editorializing. Find corroborating sources for this video as well.
BIG OLD BOATS!
BIG OLD BOATS!
BIG OLD BOATS!!!!!!!
A fantastic way to start a Tuesday!
Thanks for doing so many stories of our Great Lakes. There is so much history out here it is insane. 6000 estimated wrecks in our written history.
There was also an announcement made today April 11, 2023 about the wrecks of 2 of 3 ships lost in a November 1914 storm being found.
A tradegy on Lake Superior with ALL HANDS lost on ALL 3 ships
The C.F. Curtis, Selden E. Marvin, and Annie M. Peterson.
It may be a new story to read into.
Cheers
The end of the video you showed the crewman being swung over the side to take the ropes of the ship… my father did this as a British merchant seaman on the great lakes in the 60s so I’ll show him …
He went on to be a boatman mooring ships in the UK and I’ve followed in his footsteps, my son will be next to follow in a long line of boatman and seaman in our family! ⚓️⚓️⚓️
Born and raised in Michigan. You are taught to respect the great lakes at a young age. Superior has always been my favorite as she's so wild. But in November she is down right dangerous.
A comment above said it's just as severe storms today as in 1913 . In November
Im also from Michigan, my parents always warned me of the dangers of the lakes. The only one I've swam in is Lake Michigan.
I live on the Great Lakes and I love learning more about the boats that once graced the water! These videos make my day :)
Well that s nice Miranda Ludington It is nice to have something that you enjoy That helps make life better
There should be a museum that covers all these lost boats 🚢
Man Great Lakes disaster is sometimes largely forgotten
I wouldn't say so. Generally, Great Lakes wrecks are often more famous than wrecks that happen on the seas and oceans, because there's less of them. The most famous wreck of the Great Lakes is the Edmund Fitzgerald, a freighter. Sea going freighters usually don't get much press when they sink. They remain largely unknown.
@@nickklavdianos5136 No the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald became so famous because it was the first too be seen on national news, and even some international news. Even the ceremony for the sailors was broadcast on national news and some international news networks.. There were other that were reported by local news stations around the Great Lakes, before the Edmund Fitzgerald. And Gordon Lightfoot helped make it famous, because of the song he wrote, and sang helped make it so famous. And Gordon Lightfoot even as good as he was at telling stories through songs couldn't convey one thing. And that's how haunting the sound of the bell ringing 29 times at the memorial ceremony for the lost sailors on that ship sounded. How do I know all of this, because I watched all of it on the news, because I wasn't allowed to go to school until I had seen a doctor about the nosebleeds that I kept getting in classes. Name one wreck that has happened in the Great lakes, since the Edmund Fitzgerald sank that's even half as famous. I'll be glad too wait.
Those Lakes should be called... FRESH WATER OCEANS ! For REAL .
@thebigdog2295 while all of this is true, it should be noted that one of the reasons there hasn't been a famous shipwreck on the lakes since the Fitz is because there hasn't been another sinking of a large freighter since the Fitz sank. The changes made after that wreck made shipping MUCH safer.
@@thebigdog2295 well, you said it yourself, the Edmund Fitzgerald got massive press coverage. Name one cargo ship that shank in the ocean and got an equal amount of press. I don't think what I'm saying is controversial in any way. Shipwrecks in the Great lakes are less than open sea shipwrecks and thus can become individually more famous. Most of the famous open sea shipwrecks are either wartime losses or passenger ships that were lost with massive loss of life. No one talks that much about cargo ships going down.
Every one of these ore carriers, no matter how fierce the storm is, will always bring me back to the Edmund Fitzgerald (for obvious reasons), but to believe that these were their predecessors and they succumbed to the same fate as the Fitz in the same way, just baffles me. It shows the ferocity of the Great Lakes in winter and how dangerous these sailor's jobs actually are.
What a lethal combination of factors and decisions. That is perhaps among the worst type of maritime disaster, lost without a trace and with an aura of tragic mystery.
If you think you're going to lose not only a job, but a reputation, you do irrational things. That so many were caught out by the storm possibly shows that this Captain was not alone. (But i am not an historian.)
Also explains why we have organized labor. Working men and women should not be treated like an expendable commodity.
@@michaelwalter3399 Yes... absolutely. Thank you for raising that.
Excellent point!!
there is a reason unions came into being.......
Great Lakes captains were really only given the discretion to refuse to sail due to weather until the sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald. In 1975.
For the last couple of weeks I've learned so much about the Great Lakes and the storm that sank so many ships, it's quite harrowing to know about all this suddenly. I'm European so we don't hear much of American history unless we dig deep on our own and these videos really teach me stuff about ships and boats in general along with some other channels 🙌🏻 Keep up the good work with the videos!
Even in the US these stories aren't widely known out of the Great Lakes region. Even though they loom large on the map people hear "lakes" and their imagination stops. They think they're just really big versions of an average lake they go boating on. Really they are inland freshwater seas, with all the accompanying majesty and terror.
@@claudiadarling9441 Yeah the Caspian is actually CALLED a sea, but it's the only one. Oh and it's in Asia.
Try looking up Mataafa some time, that's the sort of story those who survived would never forget.
Even in college here in the US they don't teach much about the history of places like this. My daughter said in college (2008) , they only teach world history where it affected the US.
@@claudiadarling9441 beautifully said
Never a dull moment when watching these videos!
Wreck is so eerie to me. Love your ship storytelling as I am a big fan of old ships myself
Another great story; thanks B.O.B. I would have to think at least some of his time tested and experienced crew would have questioned the wisdom of this trip . But loyalty to their captain outweighed their better judgment. I don’t think you will ever run out of stories that depict selfless sacrifice and dedication, regardless of the occupation, especially in this era. I’d also like to mention I think it neat how the operator of the Hullet unloader sat in a cab just above the bucket.
It may have been they needed the ccash as well, the 20th century was fucking rough
@@SudrianTales Lol. Wait til you see what the rest of the 21st has in store.....
I noticed him in the cab too. Thought the same thing!
I really love these Great Lake stories. Thank you!
Thanks
Everything you cover regarding Great Lakes is so intriguing to me. Thank you
Quality content as usual BOB. I love learning the history of the great lakes.
What a beautifully told story!
Magnificent footage! I've loved these Great Lakes mysteries, they keep you on your heels definitely. Great video!
I work at the Great Lakes Shipwreck Museum at Whitefish Point. I really enjoy being able to hear these stories while I am working around the house. Sometimes it's hard to find time to sit down and read a book. I like the speed at which you narrate. Looking forward to listening to many more.
Thanks!
Thank you, really appreciate it!
I don’t possess what it takes to go that far out on any body of water. But, I get so excited when I hear of anyone discovering an old ship. I admire both sets of sailors. The ones who sank. As well, as the ones who find them. God bless them all!!!
All these videos are fantastic. I'm originally from Michigan and lived a chunk of my life about 15 mins from Lake St Clair, and a half hour from lake Huron. Spent a lot of time on or in the lakes. But I got so sick of the brutally short summers and even more brutally long winters, I moved to Phoenix. Just could not deal with another winter. Been in Phoenix 5 years now and absolutely no regrets.
But the stories and all the wrecks on the lakes have always fascinated me.
Yes another Great Lakes freighter! I love these ones more than any other ship history!!!!!
A tremendous video! Thank you for your work, and excellent pictures! A suggestion for a future video...the D.M. CLEMSON, lost in 1908. Once again, thank you for increasing boat lovers and historians for your outstanding video!
I feel for the captain. The choice was lose your job, or maybe lose your life. And in those days, sometimes those consequences had the same effect.
Yes, even off the Lake we are fortunate folks care through Social Security in some cases, and food pantries. 'Pride can lead to a fall'
'Haste makes waste.' Nature taught by Indians when to traverse
any distance of Lake, my personal opinion. Overreliance on cheaper fuel overtrusted then.
You videos are so well done. I really enjoy the format and your narration is just the perfect tone. Thank you for your research and hard work to bring these stories to life.
Very interesting subject material as a Detroiter I approve. It’s certainly a very emotive tale & it’s been told exceptionally well. I’ve head it before theres actually a documentary out there perhaps from the 90’s that uses older interviews possibly 80’s vintage sailors who survived the white hurricane. Yours properly asked the provocative question of who’s really responsible while zooming into the captain and bringing him to life instead of just an old photograph.
Blame falls on the company 100%. If the Captain had a reputation for being very cautious, I think it speaks volumes of the pressure he was put under.
Superb look at this disaster as always! Always impressed by you're videos. The wreck just sat on the bottom is so haunting as they scan past the name on the bow...
I was furious throughout the entire story. Such needless loss of life and the torment it leads those behind.
I love your channel! The narration is calm and informative and your attention to detail is great! Thank you for the wonderful, informative, entertainment!
I’ve always been intrigued by this story and have read as much as I can find. Your treatment of the fate of the HB Smith is the best effort to tell the story I have seen. Thanks for the great work.
Whitefish point seems like a very common location in a lot of these ship disasters
@@michelekossack1861 Good stuff thanks for the info!
I'm pretty sure the spot they loaded the ore at us still there in Marquette, it's really cool to hear a story it was part of.
Yup the Marquette ore dock is still loading boats, until the Tilden mine stops producing iron ore pellets. The ore dock being used today is not the one that was used then.
This happened in an era where weather reporting and prediction was very much in its infancy- and very antiquated. Many ship captains viewed the weather bureau with skepticism and derision. It was also not believed that an inland hurricane could occur. A lethal combination of factors led to this, and so many other ships and sailors being lost.
Amazing video bro! Can’t wait for you to hit that 100k mark! The silver play button is a beautiful thing! Hope to get you over the mark!
I have to say, that description is top notch when it comes to a quick run down of the subject matter for someone who knew exactly nothing about the topic before hand.
i think this video is your best yet. the pacing is just right, the music is good and the narration is a perfect mix of exiting and mysterious
There's something about your videos that I really like. I love the Great Lakes so that doesn't hurt!
Thank you for these beautiful poeces of film. Truly a treasure. Thank you for your indepth reasearch on ships who no one ever heard about. I very much like your documentories
We recently went to a small Canadian town's museum. One section was dedicated to WWI. There was a list of the dead, one section of the list had about 20 men that listed why they were shot. One stood out. Refused an officer's order. Captain Owen was in a similar position Do or Die. Loss or work for him would have meant poverty and not being able to look after his family.
I'm working as a shipping agent and I deal with the captain on board.. sometimes when we are more free we tend to talk about sailing a vessel..
I don't blame captain Owen for his decision.Even today captains are under heavy pressure should there be many delays..only when it concerns safety the captain has final say but that hopefully the captain made the right decision..
As for captain Owen,well he was forced involuntarily to sail..I felt sorry for the whole crew..RIP
As you said at the closing of the video,the top brass sits in the comfort of their office but the crews are the one on board.
I wonder if the company was saddened by the loss of its ship and crew or angry at the loss of profit.
The majority of the higher ups probably the latter
I would like to believe the former, but I suspect more the latter was the case.
I'm sure it was both..Just like any other wreck.
They were certainly sad at the loss of the ship. That was expensive after all. If you mean did they care about the loss of the crew, clearly not. It's all numbers on a spreadsheet to people like that.
I think captain Smith faced an impossible situation. It's truly unfortunate.
Greed is a strong motivator causing the loss of many people and ships. I enjoy your videos and just scratch my head why such experienced captains would risk their lives on the lakes in November
Thanks for more Great Lakes stories.
This was like with all your videos an amazing job well done, Bradley. One ship I really want you to cover is one of my top 10 favorite ocean liners, The SS Burdigala ex. german liner SS Kaiser Friedrich. I really wish you cover this amazing but troubled ship. Cheers!!!
As a long time resident of Michigan's Upper Peninsula I've been to the ore docks in Marquette many times. The storms on Lake Superior are truly awe inspiring and nothing to take lightly.
I also blame the owners
Your uploads are quickly becoming a high spot of my weekend, Bradley. Appreciate the effort you're putting into these fascinating tales of the sea. (And great lakes!) Thanks for all your hard work. It really shows. Enough singing your praises now, i eanna watch this new video. Permission to come aboard, Sir.?
Thank you so much for what you do. I really enjoy the stories and you and the history mystery man are two of my favorites. Hope you keep up the good work.
I drive trucks here in England and my boss always says "your the captain of your ship" when it comes to making decisions regarding my working day, to be put under that kind of pressure when you have other people to think about is ethically and morally wrong and just shows how companies put profit above all else. The captain's reputation would have been unquestionable had he gone with his experience and not his own ambition. My own personal opinion. A great video I find the great lakes absolutely fascinating
Lots of other boats were caught in this storm..
@@alanmorrison3598 but they weren't pressured into going...they were caught far out having left when things were calm...
The footage of the Hulett Unloaders is sweet
Great Lakes shipwreck history is unmatched. The fact that all this history took place in fresh water, 2.5 thousand miles from any ocean, is baffling. It truly has no rival, an anomoly.
As for Captain Owen's decision? At the time it probably didnt seem like he had a choice at all.
Just found your channel and I love how you bring the story to life. And you have a very soothing voice which is great for this channel. Liked and following!! 😊
I have recently discovered your channel and have been binging on your videos. You do fantastic work. Thank you for your dedication and hard work on this fascinating subject. Both of my parents were born in Duluth and my mother had her ashes spread over the North Shore of Lake Superior.
Great video. Fantastic job. The responsibility falls on the captain in the end unfortunately. You can always get another job, sadly the crew has very little to no say in the matter. Look forward to your next video. I was wondering if you have ever done a video on the Edna G. One of the oldest tugboats on the lakes out of Two Harbors MN ? Thanks. 👍👍
The crew has "say" in the matter! Quit work after October!! It was "seasonal" work anyway!!
Absolutely
Another well done production!
Never let down your guard. Never do anything against your best judgment. A job you may lose, but your life you will save.
Many other boats were out..
@@alanmorrison3598 and?? you are a broken record....
Excellent documentary!
Thank you for the awesome content!
There is still pressure in today's world as well my dad was an old captains and I followed in his footsteps he taught me this " I would rather the company be mad at me and still have a license than the company be mad at me with no license "
I make my decisions based on that to this day I never want to be the guy that gets someone killed or hurt . sometimes I am hard on my guys but for good reason
There absolutely nothing we do that is so dire that we can't be safe while doing it good day
Love the video, keep up the good work.
Another excellent video.
Thanks 👍
I’m just happy for each new episode 😁😁😁😁🙏
I don't know how you picked this introduction song but it helps to lock people like me in.. It's very great introductory music
LOVE THIS VIDEO MAN btw could you do a video on the PS Alpena which sank in "Big blow" all 80 board died
Final responsability is tough. It leaves no room for excuses. From the comfort of my warm bed.
Very Interesting, love all the stories of the White Hurricane of 1913.
Growing up on lake superior 😊 always remember stories of November storm's.
The Captain knew Lake Superior and knew enough to protect his ship and crew, but some bean counter in a distant safe office insisted that Captain Owen make the run and threatened his livelihood. The Captain was not given any option. So the blame should fall squarely the company and those who threatened Captain Owen's career.
Agreed! Until that happens, nothing will improve.
good videos about the ships! Enjoy this channel as well.
Having lived on the shores of Lake Superior, and watching the storms… the company 100%, captain 100%
Sad that Capt Owen had a reputation of taking care of his ship and his crew and by all accounts was a popular and competent mariner. One bad decision under duress and it’s all for naught.
It's really unfair that the captain gets name dropped personally as possibly responsible for the sinking, but the company owners trying to force him into it are anonymous.
Love your videos!
My Grandfather worked the docks in Duluth when he was a young man. I found some pictures that my father took from an ore boat of passing through the Soo Locks in 1947. I didn’t know anything about this trip or much about my grandfather’s work. Really enjoy your show. My Grandfather was a milkman in Detroit when I was young, my Grandmother was from Windsor. There was something about running whiskey I don’t know much about either. When I was 10 I didn’t understand why I always felt safe at my Grandparents in a part of Detroit that I didn’t belong in.
Love your documentaries with the Great Lakes being my favorites. Being from Michigan would love to see a more in-depth on Rogers City, Bradley Fleet and Port Calcite. Also, what is the guitar melody used? It is simple and haunting at the same time love it!
If you can get away with doing risky things for these companies, you're praised as a hero but if can't you're called reckless and hung out to dry.
Wonderful yet tragic stories of the shipping days of the Great lakes. As a scuba diver the wrecks are amazing bits of history and wonderment of the days, the living conditions, the working conditions, etc. of the shipping industry. I lived in Kenosha, WI and we very frequently dove the SS Wisconsin, SS Milwaukee, the Rosinco & many others on the southern end of Lake Michigan. The waters of Mackinaw also had some fantastic wrecks as well.( again, from a divers perspective.
Love your content. Was hoping to see more of the ship.
It's clear that a captain with a record like his would never have made the call to sail under the conditions present that day. But if he was indeed under threat of losing his career, that's a mighty big incentive to make a gamble when you might not normally do so.
And he was not the only captain under duress that day. Many a captain was under the same pressure to get one last load in before the end of the season. Many ships and many good men were lost as a result, and the public outcry was loud. Many of the men who survived the storm had to be begged to return the following season because of the shortage of experienced hands.
The shipping companies did not face direct penalties for the needless loss of life, but things changed forever after that storm, and the indirect cost to the shipping companies was, while discreet, certainly still harsh. Never again would a November Gale be regarded with complacency. And for years afterward, many men thought twice about challenging the weather on the lakes. Some never went back, unwilling to face the sea that had taken so many friends and family.
Nothing has changed since this boat and crew were lost, senior management never gives a damn about the people that are risking their lives because it’s never management putting their lives on the line. I have noticed a little bit of a trend in a number of these boats lost on the Great Lakes is that the just one last run thing seems to be deadly.
The way story after story on the Lakes is "the company wanted the captain to make one more run before the season ended"...it's just incredibly depressing.
It’s so sad and infuriating that company pushed the captain like they did. I really hope they at least had the balls to tell his and the crew’s families what happened
A vessel that avoids a storm will sail for another day! The crew will get to be with their families one more day. ❤️
Gordon Lightfoot had some very important observations about Lake superior. Thank you for great storytelling supported by amazing archival footage. 😊
11:29 a bottle in a message was found? Haha, mistakes happen. Great video, love your content.
Does anyone know what the headline "Wilson Ready to Aid Rebels" refers to on the paper shown at 12:36? I thought it might be about conflict in Mexico at the time but I can't find anything about President Wilson supporting rebels there.