Please Seth... for the love of everything janky and better than unoriginal decks this this Fruition one, build a Splinter + Luquimetal Coating deck and play something that's still janky, yet original and actually GOOD. You have an opportunity to unveil a fun and original deck build to the world, yet keep ignoring this idea. Will you finally consider it before someone else does!?
Kinda late to this, but Seth missed lethal before that. Remand Magus, let opponents draw for Visions, they have 7 cards and get 4 to face, 8 life left. Untap, draw, pass, opponent draws for turn, full cost Runeflare them for exact.
As someone who has played this deck I would 100% recommend throwing a cerebral vortex if you can find a slot for it forces them to draw two cards and then take damage equal to the number of cards they have drawn this turn!
OH and I should say that it can also allow you to cast your rune flare traps for 1 mana as well! this way your not waiting and hoping that they play a spell and draw 7 with forced fruition!
I don't think your explanation of how Snapcaster Mage and Runeflare Trap interact is correct... You can not cast Runeflare Trap with its alternatve cost simply because it has flashback. It's either one alternatve cost of the other, not both. Meaning in order to cast the Trap from your graveyard, you have to pay its converted mana cost, which is 6. ...Right? idk maybe I'm wrong lol I'll watch the video and see if this actually happens, but I am fairly confident Snapcaster doesn't work that way. Alternative costs are a one or the other or both combined, like Natural Order for example. Though I guess that's not really an "alternative cost" that's an "additional cost". But I think my point stands lol
@@McPuffster That only works because it's a cost reduction ability that checks the cost of playing Wizard's Lightning when you play it. Alternative Casting cost works differently with Snapcaster. Snapcaster grants flashback with flashback cost = casting cost of the target. So in this case, Runeflare trap gains the Trap Ability + Flashback, each having a different cost on each. Mission Briefing is the card we want here
@@McPuffster No, what you are talking about is a "reduced cost", that is not the same as an "alternative cost". This is why WL will cost only 1 red. An alternative cost does nothing to manipulate the value of the actual mana cost of a card, in the same way controlling a Wizard reduces Wizards Lightning by 2.
Hey seth! I love the use of the forced fruition, i would love to see you try the deck in the way i have built it. I built around using runeflare trap and vision skeins. I found that you need to run white if you want to live vs the linear agro decks like burn. Leyline of sanctity and ghostly prison are lock pieces that help the general gameplan. In closing its also the only deck capable of hosting the most evasive bomb in modern in stormbreath dragon
1:16:45 couldn't Seth win by just playing his second Fevered Visions, then Runeflare Trap in the opponent's end step and a hard cast Runeflare Trap on his turn?
Nice deck. Suddenly memories of my Standard Forced Fruition deck came back. Base uw turbo fog. Fogs, WoG, evacuation. Win con is the soft lock of Forced Fruition and the white enchantment where all players may only cast 1 spell per turn. So much fun (for me) and anguish (for opponents). Lol Unfortunately this was during the faeries’ reign.
If you ever revisit this idea, I think a combo deck with Harmless Offering would be pretty fun, donating Forced Fruition to your opponent and drawing tons of cards.
Snapcaster Mage grants flashback equal to cssting cost of the targeted card. Can't use the trap alternative cost to pay the flashback cost. Would you replace it with mission briefing instead?
One of my favorite trends in much abrew is how well big burn effects play in modern like runeflare trap, cremator, the blasts from this past budget magic, and the black drain ten from a while back. I’m sure there are others I can’t think of but these cards always impress me in the vids
Are fetchlands used in modern to have the same amount of lands but take up twice as much space? Does it simply thin out the deck and guaruntee your draws of other cards? Ive never understood, i obly play commander
Oof, opp could have sacked stitchers at 30:01 in hopes of finding a bridge, then sacked seer to itself to make a zombie. Small chance, but winning games like that is the most memorable :p
59:11 remanding the magus, with the pool of cards you already had, would've won you the game. Opponent with an extra card in hand (7), goes to 8 life with fevered vision, you don't trap them, boomerang any of their permanents on your turn, and THEN trap them for exact seize. I was screaming at the screen "NONONO PLEASE REMAND IT"
(Typed at 4:30) This deck seems wicked (and probably pretty competitive). It would be so awesome if Black Vise was in Modern. (I kind of really hope they reprint it).
26:16 not saying it would have been an optimal play, but it would've been pretty amusing to surgical the blackcleave cliffs in op's GY and (potentially) leave them with no lands
So I pulled forced fruition and thought it was horrible till I realized max hand size is still 7 cards. What if we throw as many copy enchantment type cards into a deck along with fraying sanity and other graveyard hate just to make my opponents mill themselves out
I was under the impression that you couldn't Snapback a trap and pay the trap's alternate cost because Snapcaster gives the trap Flashback which is an alternate casting cost, and you can only use one alt cost at a time. Am I wrong?
Haven’t seen the gameplay yet, but with the Runeflare Trap, wouldn’t running Mission Briefing be better since it lets you use the Trap cost rather then the flashback?
Against the scapeshift opponent, couldn't you have cryptic command to counter through the breach and bounce a stomping ground, untapped and bounce the last 2 forest on your turn to make them lose to their own summoners pact? Edit: Also realized in game 3 you pointed out the line for that game when they only had 1 forest on board and a sakura tribe elder. Don't they just lose if you boomerang their forest? Pact is priced with 2 green sources right?
@@bryanprescott8083 So looking back through it, game 2 was stuck on the blue to make it work because of the Gield of Ruin, then game 3 was stuck on blue because of blood moon + opponent having a mana up for relic to stop the flashback. This deck is really blue hungry. Edit: Fixing errors.
Why not play Owls? Also it seems like draw punishing effects like Underworld Dreams (I think that’s the right one) would be good. Don’t know if it’s better though
@@MTGGoldfish Sorry, I hadn't quite caught the nuance of the deck. Even after playing casual off-and-on for the last almost 20 years or so, still a noob :S
We really want our bounce spell to hit lands, so I think Eye of Nowhere and Boomerang are better in this deck. Echoing Truth could maybe be an additional bounce spell.
Something to remember is you can remand a flashbacked spell and it still exiles itself so you don't have to waste other counters on them and that's the best case to use a remand.
Seems like refocussing on howling mine effects to fill opponents hand and trigger Runeflare might be better than Forced Fruition. At several points I felt like you could have won this way more easily.
"Hey everyone it's Seth, PROBABLY better known as SaffronOlive. Today we're playing Modern, IIIIIN Standard. Hmmm...this hand does nothing....we'll try it!" *Opponent leads on Spirebluff Canal and passes* "Aaaand we scoop it up!" The definitive Seth experience.
In the Game at 1:09 you could probably just have played the 2nd Forced Fruition. That way OP would draw 14 cards I assume and that turn you could have kept 1 mana open for the Runeflare Trap =)
Seems like you'd win more games if you bounced your opponent's threats rather than their lands, which in the case of the dredge game, for example, was key. Why not save the bounce spell for their Vengevine instead of wasting it on their land, when they only need 1 mana to cast their stuff anyway?
Since you don't really have any turn 1 plays, you should be playing 4 of the RU filter land (cascade bluffs) instead of the spirebluff canals. I think they would've helped a lot more for any game where you also drew your basic mountains.
38:12 The trolling! How many editors edit MTGGoldfish videos? Is it always the same guy (or girl?) Is it the person making the video (in this case Seth)?
Lol, editor...it's mostly just one person that helps edit my videos (and then Matt who does Deconstructed does some of the more technical stuff like spoiler videos that need animations and such).
Used to be a standard deck, but the cards have rotated out some time ago. Sometimes One With Nothing was used as a sideboard card against Owling Mine. Now it's a fringe modern deck. www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/much-abrew-about-nothing-owling-mine-modern www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/owling_mine_with_jeff_hoogland.html
You can vote for next week's deck here: www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/against-the-odds-forced-fruition-modern
Please Seth... for the love of everything janky and better than unoriginal decks this this Fruition one, build a Splinter + Luquimetal Coating deck and play something that's still janky, yet original and actually GOOD. You have an opportunity to unveil a fun and original deck build to the world, yet keep ignoring this idea. Will you finally consider it before someone else does!?
Magistrate's Scepter, let's go!
Boros sundial of the infinite
0:43 Seth trying not to cry thinking about his opponent drawing cards instead of him
I felt that..
Seth loves drawing cards so much he had to let his opponents in on the fun for once.
I think he just loves card draw in general so much that he doesn't mind if his opponent is the one doing it.
No Bouncy Bounce - Seth 2018
Immediately followed up by " Oh god, I just said bouncy bounce."
38:00
1:00:13 opponent missed lethal when you bounced magus; he could have kessig wolf runned, but didn't notice it i guess. oh well. love the deck btw
I'm glad I'm not the only person who noticed that :)
I saw that too, and so didn't feel too bad when opp got the kill with the second cremater.
Seth isn’t the only one who misses lethal
Kinda late to this, but Seth missed lethal before that. Remand Magus, let opponents draw for Visions, they have 7 cards and get 4 to face, 8 life left. Untap, draw, pass, opponent draws for turn, full cost Runeflare them for exact.
Kessig was a mountain due to Magis of the moon. It had no abilities
As someone who has played this deck I would 100% recommend throwing a cerebral vortex if you can find a slot for it forces them to draw two cards and then take damage equal to the number of cards they have drawn this turn!
I like it.
OH and I should say that it can also allow you to cast your rune flare traps for 1 mana as well! this way your not waiting and hoping that they play a spell and draw 7 with forced fruition!
@@zachdudee8887 Do you think It's worth it to run ebony owl as well, or is it just overkill at that point?
100% thought this was going to be a harmless offering deck so we draw the cards and win with lab man
im going to be honest, i will steal this idea!
Goblinmaster999 this would’ve been soooo fun
This is genius
That's what I thought too. That it was gonna be a deck like that and then chain spells until you win
I love how long the videos are nowadays. No joke. So much more stuff to watch. Love the content as always Seth!
1/35 to draw and discard the same cards with inquiry 27:00
This made my bad day so much better. I love Owling Mine! Maybe I'll have to pick up some Forced Fruition for it...
Hope your day continues to improve!
You can actually hear pain in Seth's voice when he says: make opponent draw cards
LOL that point at 35:22 where the joy of playing fruition is met the horror of opp thinkin a sec about responding
Game: 9:02
9:02
9:02
It's in the description, mate.
23:52
Seth: I swear, we're gonna win with this sooner or later!
Me: Checks video length
Also me: Yikes
I don't think your explanation of how Snapcaster Mage and Runeflare Trap interact is correct... You can not cast Runeflare Trap with its alternatve cost simply because it has flashback. It's either one alternatve cost of the other, not both. Meaning in order to cast the Trap from your graveyard, you have to pay its converted mana cost, which is 6.
...Right? idk maybe I'm wrong lol I'll watch the video and see if this actually happens, but I am fairly confident Snapcaster doesn't work that way. Alternative costs are a one or the other or both combined, like Natural Order for example. Though I guess that's not really an "alternative cost" that's an "additional cost". But I think my point stands lol
I thought the same first, but I know Wizard's lightning gets cheap with snapcaster so this should be the same.
@@McPuffster That only works because it's a cost reduction ability that checks the cost of playing Wizard's Lightning when you play it. Alternative Casting cost works differently with Snapcaster. Snapcaster grants flashback with flashback cost = casting cost of the target. So in this case, Runeflare trap gains the Trap Ability + Flashback, each having a different cost on each.
Mission Briefing is the card we want here
@@McPuffster well snapcaster + archive trap doesn't work so I'm not sure
@@McPuffster No, what you are talking about is a "reduced cost", that is not the same as an "alternative cost". This is why WL will cost only 1 red. An alternative cost does nothing to manipulate the value of the actual mana cost of a card, in the same way controlling a Wizard reduces Wizards Lightning by 2.
Yep which is why mission briefing should have been considered, maybe a 2 and 2 split.
Hey seth! I love the use of the forced fruition, i would love to see you try the deck in the way i have built it. I built around using runeflare trap and vision skeins. I found that you need to run white if you want to live vs the linear agro decks like burn. Leyline of sanctity and ghostly prison are lock pieces that help the general gameplan. In closing its also the only deck capable of hosting the most evasive bomb in modern in stormbreath dragon
Sounds sweet!
Bouncy bounce!
Seth you should do an all Ultimate Masters poll for against the odds. There has to be some jank potential
Hmm, next week, Ultimate Masters poll incoming!
Oh that casual «21 your face for R», classic
Replace Snapcaster with Mission Briefing to be able to cast Runeflare from grave for alternate cost.
I say this with experience with Archive Trap.
At 1:18:40, why not snap cryptic counter bounce valakut?
1:16:45 couldn't Seth win by just playing his second Fevered Visions, then Runeflare Trap in the opponent's end step and a hard cast Runeflare Trap on his turn?
At 1:00:30 couldn't the opponent activate wolf run for game?
no because magus was still alive at any point before damage
He bounced Magus though, Ethan.
Opponent probably didn't see it. He won anyway so no foul. 👍
@@brewbrewbrewthedeck4138 oh sorry i thought he blocked magus my bad.
Nice deck. Suddenly memories of my Standard Forced Fruition deck came back. Base uw turbo fog. Fogs, WoG, evacuation. Win con is the soft lock of Forced Fruition and the white enchantment where all players may only cast 1 spell per turn. So much fun (for me) and anguish (for opponents). Lol
Unfortunately this was during the faeries’ reign.
If you ever revisit this idea, I think a combo deck with Harmless Offering would be pretty fun, donating Forced Fruition to your opponent and drawing tons of cards.
Does Snappy really work with Runeflare Traps conditional casting cost? I don't believe it does.
It doesn't. Flashback is using its Manacost, not the alternate Cost.
Snapcaster Mage grants flashback equal to cssting cost of the targeted card. Can't use the trap alternative cost to pay the flashback cost. Would you replace it with mission briefing instead?
Yeah, a bit more expensive...
Forced Fruition is easily one of my favorite win cons in group hug.
One of my favorite trends in much abrew is how well big burn effects play in modern like runeflare trap, cremator, the blasts from this past budget magic, and the black drain ten from a while back. I’m sure there are others I can’t think of but these cards always impress me in the vids
We always have good luck with big burn spells.
Have you thought about playing Mission Briefing? It would allow to cast the trap from your graveyard with its alternative cost.
Maybe Mission Briefing could replace Snapcaster.
“Mother of mercy” the way you said “mother,” we all know what you were ABOUT to say lmfao
seth, why not play mission briefing over snaps?? i thought snap didn't let you play alternative costs?
Are fetchlands used in modern to have the same amount of lands but take up twice as much space? Does it simply thin out the deck and guaruntee your draws of other cards? Ive never understood, i obly play commander
1:00:35 opponent forgets Kessig Wolf Run :o
All in all, I loved the idea of the deck. Having people die by DRAWING seven is insane!
I wonder if Archive Trap main board with main Surgical to eliminate threats is better then the bouncing plan.
Forced Fruition is hilarious with a lab maniac and harmless offering backup plan :)
1:19:00 still dead??? But coulda bounced valakut??
Seems like Cerebral Vortex would be a great way to just blow somebody out if they cast two or more spells. Or is it too situational?
Sweet, love it when the YT ad service glitches and gives the vid no ads. Like a happy accident.
Can you runflare trap for R with Snapcaster? Those are both alternative costs...
Savage editor lol
It’s so nostalgic seeing Magic cards that aren’t super statted, super wordy, and double-sided.
21:38...you could...Remand them back? Maybe they don't have the second counter.
Oof, opp could have sacked stitchers at 30:01 in hopes of finding a bridge, then sacked seer to itself to make a zombie. Small chance, but winning games like that is the most memorable :p
59:11 remanding the magus, with the pool of cards you already had, would've won you the game. Opponent with an extra card in hand (7), goes to 8 life with fevered vision, you don't trap them, boomerang any of their permanents on your turn, and THEN trap them for exact seize. I was screaming at the screen "NONONO PLEASE REMAND IT"
(Typed at 4:30) This deck seems wicked (and probably pretty competitive).
It would be so awesome if Black Vise was in Modern. (I kind of really hope they reprint it).
Black Vise would be so sweet!
6:46 Flashback is unaffected by the alternate Cost of Trap, so casting Runeflare Trap via Snapcaster Mage is not gonna get Cost reduced.
In the true spirit of Thanksgiving, he is giving all of his opponents extra draws too! Everyone gets to draw more cards!
What about ebony owl netsuke?
Just starting the video but snap can't alt-cast traps right? that's why mission briefing was such a good addition to mill with archive trap
True
I used to play this in standards. I used evacuation as a mass sweeper and had a blast
it's a 6 mana enchantment that we're hoping to just cast normally with no ramp. what could go wrong?
Boomerang and Eye of Nowhere are like reverse ramp!
26:16 not saying it would have been an optimal play, but it would've been pretty amusing to surgical the blackcleave cliffs in op's GY and (potentially) leave them with no lands
30:18 , you did draw anger, just before you won. Casting it wasn't part of the winning line (which you saw and followed).
Match 1 vs. Cremator was excellent. Pushed both decks to their extremes.
I love this series, I would love to see one for Mishra, Artificer Prodigy! It feels like that card has some potential
Why run Eye of Nowhere instead of Echoing Truth
So I pulled forced fruition and thought it was horrible till I realized max hand size is still 7 cards. What if we throw as many copy enchantment type cards into a deck along with fraying sanity and other graveyard hate just to make my opponents mill themselves out
I was under the impression that you couldn't Snapback a trap and pay the trap's alternate cost because Snapcaster gives the trap Flashback which is an alternate casting cost, and you can only use one alt cost at a time.
Am I wrong?
No, you got it right
Haven’t seen the gameplay yet, but with the Runeflare Trap, wouldn’t running Mission Briefing be better since it lets you use the Trap cost rather then the flashback?
10/10 would bouncy bounce again
Against the scapeshift opponent, couldn't you have cryptic command to counter through the breach and bounce a stomping ground, untapped and bounce the last 2 forest on your turn to make them lose to their own summoners pact?
Edit: Also realized in game 3 you pointed out the line for that game when they only had 1 forest on board and a sakura tribe elder. Don't they just lose if you boomerang their forest? Pact is priced with 2 green sources right?
Yes it is double green. However he did not have a bounce effect that he could cast. He only had 2 islands and no bounce effects in his hand.
@@bryanprescott8083 So looking back through it, game 2 was stuck on the blue to make it work because of the Gield of Ruin, then game 3 was stuck on blue because of blood moon + opponent having a mana up for relic to stop the flashback. This deck is really blue hungry.
Edit: Fixing errors.
Nice owling mine deck seth
why no bolts?
Maybe mission briefing instead of snapcaster for the trap?
Why not play Owls? Also it seems like draw punishing effects like Underworld Dreams (I think that’s the right one) would be good. Don’t know if it’s better though
I have never had much luck with the Owls :(
Another great video
Thanks!
Engulf the Shore. Perfect follow up after Fevered Visions. Fills up the hand. Same set. Super flavourful.
Engulf could be good against creature decks.
Would the Shah of Naar Isle be a good addition to this? It'd give your deck a solid body for cheap and it has your opponent draw 3 every upkeep.
Hmm, maybe, I'm not sure we want to make our opponent draw more cards before we are ready (or soon to be ready) to kill them though.
@@MTGGoldfish Sorry, I hadn't quite caught the nuance of the deck. Even after playing casual off-and-on for the last almost 20 years or so, still a noob :S
@@Canadian_Ry Echo only triggers once and drawing is optional.
@@sensei9767 I didn't realize. Thank you
why did you take an island instead of a steam vents against pyromancer g3
Didn't the Cremator opponent have the win either way? Couldn't he have used Wolf Run to give the blocked creature trample?
Yeah, they didn't really notices though!
Well, guess it didn't matter either way then :P
Does Runeflare trap / Snapcaster target flashback make the CMC 1 or 6, if the opp drew 3+ cards?
Weeeeewieee, this is a spicy one! For next week, let's make Magistrate's Scepter happen!
Infinite turn counters with it has been fairly successful for me
Please note that you can play decitate on your upkeep when the opponent is tapped out.
Wouldnt echoing truth be better then one of the other bounce spells ??
We really want our bounce spell to hit lands, so I think Eye of Nowhere and Boomerang are better in this deck. Echoing Truth could maybe be an additional bounce spell.
I'm surprised you didn't take the deck in the opposite direction with Notion Thief and Lab Maniac or something. That woulda been cool too.
Have you heard of howling pain? I think you’d like it.
1:00:22 opponent punt. They could Kessig Wolf Run Cremator.
Title of this video should be. “Seth learns that fetch lands are a thing.”
30:17 you did draw Anger, just didn’t need to use it
Something to remember is you can remand a flashbacked spell and it still exiles itself so you don't have to waste other counters on them and that's the best case to use a remand.
Did you consider trying harmless offering?
I didn't, but maybe I should have.
Seems like refocussing on howling mine effects to fill opponents hand and trigger Runeflare might be better than Forced Fruition. At several points I felt like you could have won this way more easily.
"Hey everyone it's Seth, PROBABLY better known as SaffronOlive. Today we're playing Modern, IIIIIN Standard. Hmmm...this hand does nothing....we'll try it!"
*Opponent leads on Spirebluff Canal and passes*
"Aaaand we scoop it up!"
The definitive Seth experience.
Why not Ebony Owl Netsuke in this deck?
I've never been impressed with the Owl.
Please give a raise to the editor for the "Bouncy Bounce" instant replay! xD
In the Game at 1:09 you could probably just have played the 2nd Forced Fruition. That way OP would draw 14 cards I assume and that turn you could have kept 1 mana open for the Runeflare Trap =)
Hey Seth, do you think you can make Waste Not and Forced Fruition work in one deck?
That's what I thought he would build . But I like the trap idea tbh
We played Waste Not a while ago and it was fun, and this deck was pretty fun, so maybe mashing them together we be twice as fun!
Seems like you'd win more games if you bounced your opponent's threats rather than their lands, which in the case of the dredge game, for example, was key. Why not save the bounce spell for their Vengevine instead of wasting it on their land, when they only need 1 mana to cast their stuff anyway?
8:46...d-did you say...BOGLES?!
Seth! Don't Negate flashback-ed spells when you have Remand! Or at least tell us what you're thinking when you do-did I miss something?
Hmm, where did this happen?
@@MTGGoldfish around 42:00-42:15.
Hey Seth, have you ever thought of doing a 1v1 commander against the odds? could be cool
No Niv-Misset?
Since you don't really have any turn 1 plays, you should be playing 4 of the RU filter land (cascade bluffs) instead of the spirebluff canals. I think they would've helped a lot more for any game where you also drew your basic mountains.
The Incinerator guy at the end of the first game should have also attacked with bop. He would have won on that turn.
At first I thought this deck was horrible. Then, in the dec-OH MY GOD RUNEFLARE TRAP IS AWESOME!
I hate to be that guy (kidding, I am THAT guy), but how can you build owling mine without ebony owl?
38:12 The trolling! How many editors edit MTGGoldfish videos? Is it always the same guy (or girl?) Is it the person making the video (in this case Seth)?
Lol, editor...it's mostly just one person that helps edit my videos (and then Matt who does Deconstructed does some of the more technical stuff like spoiler videos that need animations and such).
This deck looks like owling mine, except worse.
Owling Mine? Do tell!
Used to be a standard deck, but the cards have rotated out some time ago. Sometimes One With Nothing was used as a sideboard card against Owling Mine.
Now it's a fringe modern deck.
www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/much-abrew-about-nothing-owling-mine-modern
www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/owling_mine_with_jeff_hoogland.html
No ebony owl netsuke? :(