Thanks for this content, as a brazilian player what's most disheartening to me is that because of so much toxicity geared towards us in the community, it's starting to affect the way we interact even between ourselves. Since no one wants to become a scapegoat, people will get mad and be toxic just as people have been to them as a way of self-defense against the prejudice. Hell, sometimes I'll even leave a group myself after making a mistake for fear of getting trashed in the chat. This isnt even exclusive to M+, when I'm leveling alts in dungeon finder and die, many times people will just spam "BR?" in chat which feels so bad man, I can't even begin to explain. No one goes into an immersive RPG videogame to be called out by their real life circunstances whenever they make a mistake, most times avoiding these circunstances is the reason we play.
As a newer player. I got into a few keys with some Ragnaros. Yeah, some people are toxic but that comes with being on the internet in general. I also got into a 20 Azure Vault with a full group of Ragnaros and they basically carried me through the key, timing my first 20.
The funny thing is, most people I know from Ragnaros have swapped to other realms because of prejudices, even some of the players mentioned on this video.
I'm BR and had to move from Azralon to Area52/Stormrage to get invited to do KSM/AotC back in BFA S4 -- there was a blacklist WA for Azralon and almost everyone was using it in the +15 tier. Problems are: a) small community compared to another languages, b) language barrier to comm in english, and, c) lack of high level content creators doing guides in ptBR, so the BR player will either be really good or really bad, and that reverberates through Azralon guilds, semi-decent guilds will often be really toxic and elitist. DC happens because most of us play with 130++ms, unfort -- Blizzard have SA datacenters for Overwatch servers but don't give a F to the WoW BR/SA servers. I had LOTS of route issues with WoW servers, it's frustating AF. Thanks for bringing this issue up with this great vid, people can get xenophobic pretty quick because of a server name, fucking clowns.
There shouldn't be a language barrier if you wanna play on our server you should learn our language or at least find a way to translate what were trying to tell you Edit: I have no sympathy for those that can't be bothered to learn our language and then want us to cater to them
@@joaomacedo4837 You can't use the language barrier excuse if you're wanting to play with english servers Edit: It's the one thing out of this list of complaints that is completely within your control
From my experience 20+ keys with the brazil friends are going well in general. I take in consideration that everybody makes mistakes and thats normal. They don't brick my keys in general and when they leave its usually cause they don't care about not timing it, they want the IO.. and I can't blame them for this. Thanks for trying to show the community that server doesnt matter.
I don’t avoid my South American friends. Once you reach 2700+ there aren’t any SA griefers most players are very good. Though not all of them have good communication skills and/or a good command of English language. However tank saying “ Buy invis” is enough. As long as they can communicate with those key words I’m happy. Illidan on other hand, yikes. Never invite people from Illidan.
Hey so, you summoned Brazil. Wanted to comment, BR has about 5 servers, and Latin america has 3. United States has so, freaking, many. So when an american fucks up, odds are they are not from the same server as last time, making it harder for you to get a bias with that server. We remember negative experiences more and this fucks up our perception. I play in br and haven't really had problems with dc's this expansion, but in the past some random logout would happen, but that was it, so... strange experience? The whole being toxic stuff probably comes with the language barrier/your own stigmas. This servers get blamed more often and some players cant understand a lot of the context, so "shaman, bad" will come through and they can only "defend" by blaming back or angrily, their limited communication can be expressed with the simpler, well, rage. One other thing, people saying playing on "our server" and learning "our language"... What in the fuck. It's not your server and these people are playing at 200 ms constantly and are still playing at your level. Also "interrupt" "adds" "pull" and most terms are already multilingual, so not that many communications needed, maybe the name of mob's to skip or some skill's, but you can easily translate that yourself if needed.
1000% yes to your last point in the video. If I do a key with somebody and they are toxic or just not a fun person to play with, they immediately go on The blacklist because I don't ever want to deal with them again. And as someone who healed from vanilla wow up until very recently the amount of toxic DPS at lower iOS has made it to where I have completely given up on healing.
For sure, been seeing a lot of comments about how healing is much more difficult this expansion compared to past expansions. Definitely need DPS to be rotating defensives more, especially on tyrannical weeks - I feel like I'd be stressed playing a healer on a tyrannical week, haha
@@pumptastic I play a prot pally and I throw a lot of off healing on instances where I know there is a ton of AoE or the interrupts aren't getting done. I completely agree that it seems like more often than not, DPS die to just not using personals. I try to help that as much as I can when I DPS. Guess that might also come with the tank mindset that I have.
Someone in my guild made a really good point, in that these SA servers just have a smaller community overall compared to English speaking servers. That means less content creators and high level players to look towards for advice and guides in higher content they are running. With this on top of lack of communication that can happen sometimes between the language barrier it can be really hard to communicate strats when they simply dont have the same amount of resources we can have when it comes to videos and such.
I didn't consider how it could be harder to improve with limited resources if your main language isn't English - could definitely be a factor. You're stuck learning the hard way with lots of grinding or using your limited creators, doesn't sound great
@@deusvult6920 That seems reductive dont you think? when you consume content on WoW is it written guides or videos? generally more videos and not every content creator has CC for multiple languages, and expansions change how the change is played and strategies change in dungeons raids, class changes etc. The game being out for 2 decades doesn't change the fact their community is much smaller
@@deusvult6920 careful what you said, cause that same logic can apply to English servers, you guys also have Google translate yet spect only the people from SA to find a way to communicate when it should be both parties job
That's so true, I'm from SA and Spanish guides / resources quality are way lower than English ones, fortunately I understand English and can watch content on English
Ty for making this video. I play on Azralon and I've been kicked from keys and blamed for mistakes that weren't even mine. I've dealt with so many toxic and mean people from so many different servers, but you don't see me bashing their entire server for it. I've had players from Illidan accept me into a high key in SL, just to say in the middle of it, "oh no they're from Azralon" and deplete a total smoth run. But not after calling me names. I was so confused I truly believe that the hate some americans have towards Rag/Az comes from a place of xenophobia.
i remember having many problems with players from Ragnaros, Azralon, Barthilas and Quel'thalas back in Shadowlands. But haven't really ran into bad people since dragonflight
I'll be completely transparent, from a Brazilian (Azralon) point of view. 1- Toxicity: Yes, south american players are more toxic in general, but it also depends on the content level. Between +15 and +18 is the most toxic you will find because they think they are better than you and can command you at will. But this also apply to all other realms, tho maybe mostly seen on south/middle american realms. 2- Communication: Most people don't speak english because well... It's not their main language! Just like most americans can't speak spanish even tho it's their second language. Ok english is the "universal" language, but why should someone learn another language just to play a game? In other words, stop thinking your language is the only one that exists... There are way more people in the americas that speak spanish/portuguese than people that speak english. 3- Instantly leave keys: This is completely unrelated to realm/region. People leave keys if they think that it is not going to be timed or if they think it is "not worth their time". Just people think that they are worth more than others, unrelated to realm/region. 4- Lots of disconnects: Now this is something I can agree with... Internet providers are very bad here, regardless on how much you pay for it. Also, computer parts are very expensive so some setups are running at less than 60 fps even on low graphics quality. Those two reasons are why you may find more disconnects from Brazilian/Azralon realms (can say for sure on other south american countries). 5- Bad at the game: This is completely unrelated to realm/country lol. Just check people's score/experience to make sure they are on pair to the key/raid level. Also, double check to see if they got boosted, got a lot of bad people from many realms break my key just to find you that they mysteriously timed a +20 with two tanks/healers (one of them being the boosted). One more thing: there are A LOT of Brazilians playing on other realms. Trying to ignore someone just because of their realm doesn't mean you will not invite people from south america. One last thing, I add players to my ignore list if they are toxic and the realm count list is: 1 Daggerspine, 1 Trollbane, 3 Area 52, 1 Aerie Peak, 1 Tichondrius, 1 Azralon, 1 MoonGuard, 3 Illidan. As you can see, higher amount of players = higher chance of finding a toxic player. Just like in the video this is by no means a 100% accurate data, just something I've gathered myself.
The issue about the language barrier is you guys are on NA servers aka English servers therefore you should be expected to learn english if the roles were reversed I'd 100% be expected to learn your language.
@@gokublack8342 Most of the people in South America know English, at least to be able to do a dungeon. You don't need academic English to be able to play. The language barrier is an excuse.
People that can do 20s should be fine from given servers. You should definitely consider people from 10-16keys I think these r the levels that has most imperfections.
Thanks for the video! as a Brazilian, I totally understand where the sterotypes are coming from, we do have some bad manners on our servers, unfortunatly. But we also do have very good players and kind people! also as informed on other comments, for some peole should be hard to check tutorials and "how to" as not that many brazilians speak english as well. Also a good thing to say, is that if we have a REALLY GOOD, internet connection we play with around 150ms, that's with a EXCELENT internet connections, years a go, a normal ping in-game for me and my friends was between 170-180ms, so yeah, this also affect us a little bit haha.
That holy paladin is a prime example of why I always keep a stack of auto hammers on every character. Cheap to grab a stack of 20, and theyll last you months easily.
The complaints were most likely from lower keys where mistakes are plentiful and people always go for the lowest hanging fruit to redirect blame to (racism in this case), so whenever someone complains about SA servers my first thought is this guy doesn't do high keys, lol. On high keys everyone performs relatively similar, some have bad runs like we all do, but the second it happens to someone from these servers it suddenly validates every negative stereotype when the same standard isn't applied to other realms, there's def some selection bias going on.
I off-spec Frost, but I highly suggest checking out Manather / Okaymage / Thegumbys guide, I'm not fully up to date with them for Dragonflight. Not sure about proc-prio or anything like that nowadays :)
For sure - These stereotypes still existed in the high end, though. If I replicated the same process with 15 keys and under the results would have been different
this is one of the biggest reasons i wanna transfer servers but my friends dont understand it, that just cuz we are on ragnaros we might not get invited
It's a small sample size at the higher end of IO. But like everything the lower you get an ayo be worse it is so I don't know if I would blame server specifically on any of these things. A-52 and tichondrous I have had so many terrible Interactions with. But I'm just a 2k scrub so.
Thanks for this content, I'm brazilian too, and all I can feel is xenofobic little kids blaming us for any insue in the key. This can potencialy get a better vision of us.
As a Ragnaros player i love the video and I can confirm I'm toxic af, especially if someone is fking up mechanics or basic shit since the usual scape goat is "Ragnaros tank/player".
From my experiences, Legion and BFA were terrible when it came to inviting people from these realms. It wasn't uncommon for players from these realms to either leave, DC or curse you out in a different language if things were sour or the key was bound to be bricked. I think with the release of classic however, a lot of those players left for it or just quit the game all together after Shadowlands flopped. In my experiences in Dragonflight, I've only had a few bad cases of toxic or bad players from the Latin or BR servers. Defiantly things have changed and so has the environment. Ultimately I think people need to learn to let go of the stigmas and pay more attention to their rating and keys timed if you want to time a key or get a little bit of io score.
I am Latinamerican and lets be real, a lot of people dont have the money or there is no a decent wifi service in their contries, i never invite Ragnaros, and those servers (unless i know them from previous keys) because there are a lot that randomly DC, the part about ragequiting and toxicity are (sadly) on all servers, u never know, u find people that are the best and most chill or the worst and most toxic one on every single server, but yes random DC on those servers are more often. Sadly M+ comunnity is toxic and bad as hell and often the worst players are the ones that are the most toxic ones, i recomend to use Personal blocklist to add toons, Acc wide
For me, calling someone bad just because it's from somewhere is just an extra blame. Imagine saying that I won't invite West Coast players because they broke my keys and from now on I'll just invite people from the East. People are bad because they play bad. People are toxic because they behave toxic. In my opinion the only valid point is the language barrier. Even the ping isn't an issue because of the GCD as you can get 95-99 parses with 120-150ms ping. At the end of the day I think the servers with a big population will always have stereotypes because it's prone to evidence more due to the large number of players and it is natural in the majority of games to have more mediocre players than elite ones.
Ragnaros player here, I think the problem is that our gaming culture is more casual than US/EU and you will find ppl from our servers that are bad at the game. Also the ping is a big problem i play with 300ms sometimes.
Most of the people complaining about ragnaros/azralon probably play low keys, that's where you find bad players from all servers. I had many players from US servers ragequiting the dungeon. There are a lot of US servers and we cannot say "Illidan and Tich are bad players" because theyre a plenty of servers
They are going to be player from these server way better than people on NA server but they have a bad reputation for a reason. I for myself always scared when i take one tbh. Got so many bad exp with them in SL...
I love what you did here. A couple of thoughts that occurred to me. I think you said the warlock DC'ed for 3-4 minutes. Key left pre-emptively may be a DC and people aren't willing to wait 3-4 minutes for a player to return. In some dungeons that's 10% of the timer. Bad players can be attributed to lag. If I join a key with a player from South America my ms goes from 28 to 200-500 ms. Given some of the short cast times it can be difficult to get out of a bad situation when you are up to half a second behind everyone else. Kicks also become more difficult.
For sure, my ping stays stable with south american servers but if it shoots up to 200+ compared to what you normally play on that's definitely a reason to avoid those servers
The stereotype of SA players causing issues with NA players is not really up for debate. This specific topic has been around for quite some time now and affects many different games. Dota 2, Counter Strike, HoTS come to mind. The part that is up for debate is why. That being said people need to stop getting upset.
Heyo! Saw your original video as well and this was very interesting to me as someone relatively new to the community. I did KSH in SL S3 (pushed into the 25 or so range) and had a similar experience when you get to the higher key levels, specifically 20+. That being said, as someone taking this season much more casual (only having pushed 18s so far) it has been drastically different. I unfortunately only play on laptop and don't have recordings of my runs, but I've definitely had my fair share of negative interactions this expac, esp with players from Rag/Az. I do know that more likely than not when someone DC's or RQs after dying on a boss they are from BRZ/LTA, and instant leaves after wipes are likely to happen from those servers. I would argue that your sample has been skewed drastically towards the higher echelon of players, and doesn't accurately represent the entire community of Rag/Az as well as one ranging from +2s to +20s and beyond. I do agree with your sentiment especially at the higher levels, RIO does a very solid job at filtering applicants. That being said in the mid tiers of gameplay I feel that players from Rag/Az disproportionally have a negative impact on keys, more so than any other server. Great work, this really was an amazing video. I look forward to your future content :D Edit: Not to mention in comparison to players from OCE servers (Frostmourne, Barthilas, etc) I have had significantly less issues with in regards to toxicity, skill, and disconnections. As for the later I'm not sure if it's just due to better servers to support OCE as Thierry has claimed LTA has awful servers, but I think it's an interesting point as to why we don't view these players in such a harsh light as we do to LTA players.
I still think the stereotypes are more accurate at low keys, but the higher you get the less relevant stereotypes are for those servers, but generally I mostly avoid OCE servers just bc of the ping. I absolutely refuse to join or of their groups bc 300+ ping is a kick in the dick. And I usually avoid inviting them bc they get murdered by ping themselves in my. Group
For sure - if I replicated this at lower end keys at 15 or below, I guarantee my results are way different. And yeah OCE keys felt unplayable when I did them in shadowlands, definitely worth arguing the ping diff there
I think thats disingenuous. OCE ping to US to 200ms avg. Like less than half a second delay. It is noticeable when youre used to instant responsiveness, but hardly unplayable. Before OCE servers were a thing, australian players have had to contend and adapt, and have done just fine performing at the hardest content. The fact that some US players refuse to do the same says more about themselves as players. You might have to be faster to react to disintegration beam in cos, or be ready to anticipate the water ele los in tojs but these are universal practices that make a good player good, instead of hiding behind excuses that 200ms is "unplayable".
@@yungebola5524 Every single time iv gotten into an OCE group, its roughly 300+ ping every time. its extremely noticable when you get hit by a mechanic you moved out of or away from and hits you a second or 2 later. I just prefer not to play around shitting ping, so i dont subject myself too it.
The BR players for me are just far more hit or miss on who you get regularless of score. Even if they are not that good it isn't be so bad if you could talk to them but not speaking the same language just makes working together so much harder. Also i don't think I've hardly ever had a BR be toxic and if they were I likely couldn't read the PM lol
People in comments are complaining about you getting the best players of those servers, but well, let me tell you if you are doing keys from 10-15: everyone that's not playing an alt is going to suck, basically. That has nothing to do with the server, basically keys from 10 to 15 are just a shitshow. So stop your nonsense hate about these guys.
good on you for trying to make amends with the other servers, i'm sure some people wont listen but hope it causes less keys to self destruct, but also fuck tichondrius. happy singles day :)
This isn't how you prove or disprove your hypnosis at all. You are playing with the top % of the servers. Your bias is that 2500 is low io. That is the top 10 to 5% of a server. That is not reflected of the majority of the player base in mythic. I do agree that io is best indicator of timing keys. If you want the avg experience you need to do a 0 to KSM only pugs and repeat the experiment. You need to do it both with the majority of Latin servers and then again without them. If you wanted to be serious that needs to be repeated a few times as well. I don't believe anyone is welling to do that to prove they are bad or that is just a stereotype but that is what you would need to do. Your video only shows that people who time keys well are more likely to not be stereotype so the io system weeds out bad people regardless of the servers. Sample size is low like you said but you don't need a lot of evidence to support the io system because it's proven effective already.
The stereotypes existed at the high end as well, not just for the average player - I completely agree that if I replicated these keys at lower levels of keys, my results are different
@Pumptastic I would like to say I also think the stereotypes are blown out of proportion and was glad someone even attempted to test it. So thank you for that. I just don't think the test was reflecting what you were trying to get across to the general audience. we would be in agreement that your experience and test is not reflective of the avg player experience. At best it highlights io weeds out problem players. I 100% agree with you. All the things that were suspect behavior will be magnificent at the avg. Your video makes the impression that stereotype is generally false. It's not clear in the video that this not the experience seen by most of the people who watch or people who commented on your last video. The experiment should be the variables they deal with. A 'pugging my way' style video would be more effective. Honestly thank you for responding. Really didn't expect that. I don't experience the general problems of the Latin severs that my friends or other people complain about. I'm actually very curious how much if any difference there is. It's why I clicked your video. I personally don't think there is a statical difference in the number of bad players between the servers. I just don't have time to do a real test. I am from zuljin around 2700 most seasons with a small playgroup. I will spend one day pugging every few weeks and they generally go great. But when it's awful it's hell. Thanks again have a good day
its funny im watching this video and a shadowmoon im in the rag dps priest afks before third boss trash and never comes back. still +2d but couldve been +3
I've run into my share of bad Rag/Az/Drakkari/QT players, but I try to imagine how I'd feel if the majority of servers were almost exclusively Spanish and I had to play at a high level understanding maybe half the shit I read.
It’s mostly keys under +20s which is unfortunately the majority of keys being done. If you are inviting someone to a +20 they probably have some experience doing +20s. I know we are trying to be kind with the stereotypes but it’s usually true that they are worse.
some of the previous comments admitted a minority of the population on rag/az are very good. I"ve played with plenty of them. this video of 21+ keys with 2700+ players doesn't represent the entirety of both servers. Try pugging 10-18s with only rag/az players. I don't mean to stereotype or whatever, but you do start to see a pattern.
I will agree and how some other comment also said, in higher keys people tend to be competent but 10-18s definitely tends to be a pretty violent pattern, lack of English isn't a problem for me as I speak fluent Spanish but even in Spanish I tend to have extreme difficulty with getting any kind of point across Edit: I also can acknowledge there are some extremely good people from rag. I'm friends with a man that always hovers in the 22-25 range quickly every season but pugs have been another story altogether.
From a QT player I really appreciate your effort to show that SA servers aren't that bad, but I truly hate Rag players too. Quel thalas and ragnaros are quite similar, we're all kinda bad but ragnaros still way more toxic. Anyways we get discriminated a lot for no reason, and some "high skill " servers are extremely toxic. Malganis, Illidan, area52, worst people I've met
I said to my buddy, "fuck it, invite him" -- "4 minutes into the temple run, ragnaros happens" -- Later on, looking for a tank... a third buddy is playing, hes group lead, invites a azralon tank. I said to my buddy, "hey are we about to learn the lesson we just learned when we learned that lesson an hour ago?" -- 2nd boss nokhud 20 --- Azralon rears its head.... I've learned my lesson enough times now, since legion brother. Do other people fuck up? yes. but no one fucks up like az/rag/quelthalas. Obviously this is a mild parody but ,what I typed did literally happen the other day.
It doesn't matter how you guys feel about it it is inherently riskier to play with OCE players and for me and other players to be willing to take on that risk you need to set yourself apart in some way...its not "racist" or "xenophobic" or whatever other nonsense OCE players wanna call it. Yes it is stereotyping but in my experience it's accurate to some degree. This is a purely logical risk/reward if you don't set yourself apart from others applying(especially if you're a dps player there's a million of those) what logical benefit is there for me to take on the added risk of an OCE player over a similarly geared and rated NA player?
Run the test on low keys 10-15. The fact that everyone knows never take rag players says a lot. Sure you can take higher io players and do decent, but most are problematic. Thats why they have this reputation
your sample size is obviously not representative. Stereotypes just don't pop up out of nowhere and the one toward Ragnaros and Azralon are well earned. I have limited play time per day and won't take a risk on players from these servers
What takes were adjusted? Matter of opinion, this was the high end experience and if you aren't pushing end-game content your opinion is going to be completely different, if I did the same thing with 15 keys and under I'm sure I have a different experience
Had more issues with people from Illidan or Area-52 than people from Azralon and Ragnaros, to be completly honest.
Thanks for this content, as a brazilian player what's most disheartening to me is that because of so much toxicity geared towards us in the community, it's starting to affect the way we interact even between ourselves. Since no one wants to become a scapegoat, people will get mad and be toxic just as people have been to them as a way of self-defense against the prejudice. Hell, sometimes I'll even leave a group myself after making a mistake for fear of getting trashed in the chat. This isnt even exclusive to M+, when I'm leveling alts in dungeon finder and die, many times people will just spam "BR?" in chat which feels so bad man, I can't even begin to explain. No one goes into an immersive RPG videogame to be called out by their real life circunstances whenever they make a mistake, most times avoiding these circunstances is the reason we play.
As a newer player. I got into a few keys with some Ragnaros. Yeah, some people are toxic but that comes with being on the internet in general. I also got into a 20 Azure Vault with a full group of Ragnaros and they basically carried me through the key, timing my first 20.
Just to clarify, Azralon(brazil, portuguese speakers), ragnaros(other countries of south america, spanish speakers)
7:05 thanks for mentioning me! That was a smooth run, ggs
thanks for bringing that up, you're doing a great job for the community !
Thanks for the video! i'm Nandown- Azralon
The funny thing is, most people I know from Ragnaros have swapped to other realms because of prejudices, even some of the players mentioned on this video.
I'm BR and had to move from Azralon to Area52/Stormrage to get invited to do KSM/AotC back in BFA S4 -- there was a blacklist WA for Azralon and almost everyone was using it in the +15 tier.
Problems are: a) small community compared to another languages, b) language barrier to comm in english, and, c) lack of high level content creators doing guides in ptBR, so the BR player will either be really good or really bad, and that reverberates through Azralon guilds, semi-decent guilds will often be really toxic and elitist.
DC happens because most of us play with 130++ms, unfort -- Blizzard have SA datacenters for Overwatch servers but don't give a F to the WoW BR/SA servers. I had LOTS of route issues with WoW servers, it's frustating AF.
Thanks for bringing this issue up with this great vid, people can get xenophobic pretty quick because of a server name, fucking clowns.
There shouldn't be a language barrier if you wanna play on our server you should learn our language or at least find a way to translate what were trying to tell you Edit: I have no sympathy for those that can't be bothered to learn our language and then want us to cater to them
Obrigado por esse comentário 😉
@@gokublack8342 how DARE people want to play a video game without leaning an entire language first 😡😡😡
@@joaomacedo4837 You can't use the language barrier excuse if you're wanting to play with english servers Edit: It's the one thing out of this list of complaints that is completely within your control
@@felipefgn You're welcome
From my experience 20+ keys with the brazil friends are going well in general. I take in consideration that everybody makes mistakes and thats normal. They don't brick my keys in general and when they leave its usually cause they don't care about not timing it, they want the IO.. and I can't blame them for this. Thanks for trying to show the community that server doesnt matter.
I don’t avoid my South American friends. Once you reach 2700+ there aren’t any SA griefers most players are very good. Though not all of them have good communication skills and/or a good command of English language. However tank saying “ Buy invis” is enough. As long as they can communicate with those key words I’m happy.
Illidan on other hand, yikes. Never invite people from Illidan.
Hey so, you summoned Brazil. Wanted to comment, BR has about 5 servers, and Latin america has 3. United States has so, freaking, many. So when an american fucks up, odds are they are not from the same server as last time, making it harder for you to get a bias with that server. We remember negative experiences more and this fucks up our perception. I play in br and haven't really had problems with dc's this expansion, but in the past some random logout would happen, but that was it, so... strange experience? The whole being toxic stuff probably comes with the language barrier/your own stigmas. This servers get blamed more often and some players cant understand a lot of the context, so "shaman, bad" will come through and they can only "defend" by blaming back or angrily, their limited communication can be expressed with the simpler, well, rage. One other thing, people saying playing on "our server" and learning "our language"... What in the fuck. It's not your server and these people are playing at 200 ms constantly and are still playing at your level. Also "interrupt" "adds" "pull" and most terms are already multilingual, so not that many communications needed, maybe the name of mob's to skip or some skill's, but you can easily translate that yourself if needed.
1000% yes to your last point in the video. If I do a key with somebody and they are toxic or just not a fun person to play with, they immediately go on The blacklist because I don't ever want to deal with them again. And as someone who healed from vanilla wow up until very recently the amount of toxic DPS at lower iOS has made it to where I have completely given up on healing.
For sure, been seeing a lot of comments about how healing is much more difficult this expansion compared to past expansions. Definitely need DPS to be rotating defensives more, especially on tyrannical weeks - I feel like I'd be stressed playing a healer on a tyrannical week, haha
@@pumptastic I play a prot pally and I throw a lot of off healing on instances where I know there is a ton of AoE or the interrupts aren't getting done.
I completely agree that it seems like more often than not, DPS die to just not using personals. I try to help that as much as I can when I DPS. Guess that might also come with the tank mindset that I have.
Someone in my guild made a really good point, in that these SA servers just have a smaller community overall compared to English speaking servers. That means less content creators and high level players to look towards for advice and guides in higher content they are running. With this on top of lack of communication that can happen sometimes between the language barrier it can be really hard to communicate strats when they simply dont have the same amount of resources we can have when it comes to videos and such.
I didn't consider how it could be harder to improve with limited resources if your main language isn't English - could definitely be a factor. You're stuck learning the hard way with lots of grinding or using your limited creators, doesn't sound great
Sure. But the game has been out for nearly 2 decades and Google has a translate feature in Chrome.
@@deusvult6920 That seems reductive dont you think? when you consume content on WoW is it written guides or videos? generally more videos and not every content creator has CC for multiple languages, and expansions change how the change is played and strategies change in dungeons raids, class changes etc. The game being out for 2 decades doesn't change the fact their community is much smaller
@@deusvult6920 careful what you said, cause that same logic can apply to English servers, you guys also have Google translate yet spect only the people from SA to find a way to communicate when it should be both parties job
That's so true, I'm from SA and Spanish guides / resources quality are way lower than English ones, fortunately I understand English and can watch content on English
Ty for making this video. I play on Azralon and I've been kicked from keys and blamed for mistakes that weren't even mine. I've dealt with so many toxic and mean people from so many different servers, but you don't see me bashing their entire server for it.
I've had players from Illidan accept me into a high key in SL, just to say in the middle of it, "oh no they're from Azralon" and deplete a total smoth run. But not after calling me names. I was so confused
I truly believe that the hate some americans have towards Rag/Az comes from a place of xenophobia.
i remember having many problems with players from Ragnaros, Azralon, Barthilas and Quel'thalas back in Shadowlands. But haven't really ran into bad people since dragonflight
Barth is OCE
I'll be completely transparent, from a Brazilian (Azralon) point of view.
1- Toxicity: Yes, south american players are more toxic in general, but it also depends on the content level. Between +15 and +18 is the most toxic you will find because they think they are better than you and can command you at will. But this also apply to all other realms, tho maybe mostly seen on south/middle american realms.
2- Communication: Most people don't speak english because well... It's not their main language! Just like most americans can't speak spanish even tho it's their second language. Ok english is the "universal" language, but why should someone learn another language just to play a game? In other words, stop thinking your language is the only one that exists... There are way more people in the americas that speak spanish/portuguese than people that speak english.
3- Instantly leave keys: This is completely unrelated to realm/region. People leave keys if they think that it is not going to be timed or if they think it is "not worth their time". Just people think that they are worth more than others, unrelated to realm/region.
4- Lots of disconnects: Now this is something I can agree with... Internet providers are very bad here, regardless on how much you pay for it. Also, computer parts are very expensive so some setups are running at less than 60 fps even on low graphics quality. Those two reasons are why you may find more disconnects from Brazilian/Azralon realms (can say for sure on other south american countries).
5- Bad at the game: This is completely unrelated to realm/country lol. Just check people's score/experience to make sure they are on pair to the key/raid level. Also, double check to see if they got boosted, got a lot of bad people from many realms break my key just to find you that they mysteriously timed a +20 with two tanks/healers (one of them being the boosted).
One more thing: there are A LOT of Brazilians playing on other realms. Trying to ignore someone just because of their realm doesn't mean you will not invite people from south america.
One last thing, I add players to my ignore list if they are toxic and the realm count list is:
1 Daggerspine,
1 Trollbane,
3 Area 52,
1 Aerie Peak,
1 Tichondrius,
1 Azralon,
1 MoonGuard,
3 Illidan.
As you can see, higher amount of players = higher chance of finding a toxic player. Just like in the video this is by no means a 100% accurate data, just something I've gathered myself.
The issue about the language barrier is you guys are on NA servers aka English servers therefore you should be expected to learn english if the roles were reversed I'd 100% be expected to learn your language.
@@gokublack8342 Most of the people in South America know English, at least to be able to do a dungeon. You don't need academic English to be able to play. The language barrier is an excuse.
@@Iva1g I have had oce players that didn't know English its definitely something that happens
The fact that you only ignored 3 Illidan baffles me. My list is full of Illidan andys
People that can do 20s should be fine from given servers. You should definitely consider people from 10-16keys I think these r the levels that has most imperfections.
Thanks for the video! as a Brazilian, I totally understand where the sterotypes are coming from, we do have some bad manners on our servers, unfortunatly. But we also do have very good players and kind people! also as informed on other comments, for some peole should be hard to check tutorials and "how to" as not that many brazilians speak english as well. Also a good thing to say, is that if we have a REALLY GOOD, internet connection we play with around 150ms, that's with a EXCELENT internet connections, years a go, a normal ping in-game for me and my friends was between 170-180ms, so yeah, this also affect us a little bit haha.
That holy paladin is a prime example of why I always keep a stack of auto hammers on every character.
Cheap to grab a stack of 20, and theyll last you months easily.
No kidding, it's such a funny way to end up bricking a key
Second video of yours I’ve watched. New to M+ and really enjoying the content.
The complaints were most likely from lower keys where mistakes are plentiful and people always go for the lowest hanging fruit to redirect blame to (racism in this case), so whenever someone complains about SA servers my first thought is this guy doesn't do high keys, lol.
On high keys everyone performs relatively similar, some have bad runs like we all do, but the second it happens to someone from these servers it suddenly validates every negative stereotype when the same standard isn't applied to other realms, there's def some selection bias going on.
For sure. If I were to pug only lower level keys with lower experience, I almost guarantee it's a different experience haha
Hey Pump, off topic but, do you play frost ever? Would you be done to make a guide?
I off-spec Frost, but I highly suggest checking out Manather / Okaymage / Thegumbys guide, I'm not fully up to date with them for Dragonflight. Not sure about proc-prio or anything like that nowadays :)
@@pumptastic Okay, big thanks. I'll check them out!
I am Brazilian. I play in an American server just to avoid that. I do believe many Brazilians do the same.
And we have no way to measure that, only Blizzard can do so
Keep the content up really good quality, I really like ur vids
It's cool that you went through the effort to make this video, but most people that have these complaints can't do +20 keys.
For sure - These stereotypes still existed in the high end, though. If I replicated the same process with 15 keys and under the results would have been different
@@pumptastic yeah, good job on the video tho, the SA community definitely appreciates it! :D
Thank you
this is one of the biggest reasons i wanna transfer servers but my friends dont understand it, that just cuz we are on ragnaros we might not get invited
Area52 and Azarlon. My most toxic pug experiences have been from players from those servers.
good video!!
Salu2 from PerrrúXD
It's a small sample size at the higher end of IO. But like everything the lower you get an ayo be worse it is so I don't know if I would blame server specifically on any of these things.
A-52 and tichondrous I have had so many terrible Interactions with. But I'm just a 2k scrub so.
Thanks for this content, I'm brazilian too, and all I can feel is xenofobic little kids blaming us for any insue in the key. This can potencialy get a better vision of us.
Queltalas and Drakari are LATAM servers too but only Rag and Azra are usually blacklisted.
Quelthalas is dam trash and drakkari too about those 3 rag is the one with bad reputation but is the most competitive progress for keys and Raid
As a Ragnaros player i love the video and I can confirm I'm toxic af, especially if someone is fking up mechanics or basic shit since the usual scape goat is "Ragnaros tank/player".
From my experiences, Legion and BFA were terrible when it came to inviting people from these realms. It wasn't uncommon for players from these realms to either leave, DC or curse you out in a different language if things were sour or the key was bound to be bricked. I think with the release of classic however, a lot of those players left for it or just quit the game all together after Shadowlands flopped. In my experiences in Dragonflight, I've only had a few bad cases of toxic or bad players from the Latin or BR servers. Defiantly things have changed and so has the environment. Ultimately I think people need to learn to let go of the stigmas and pay more attention to their rating and keys timed if you want to time a key or get a little bit of io score.
I am Latinamerican and lets be real, a lot of people dont have the money or there is no a decent wifi service in their contries, i never invite Ragnaros, and those servers (unless i know them from previous keys) because there are a lot that randomly DC, the part about ragequiting and toxicity are (sadly) on all servers, u never know, u find people that are the best and most chill or the worst and most toxic one on every single server, but yes random DC on those servers are more often. Sadly M+ comunnity is toxic and bad as hell and often the worst players are the ones that are the most toxic ones, i recomend to use Personal blocklist to add toons, Acc wide
Are there guild applications for your guild? These takes are what we need from a raid lead
invis pot for resto druid.. am i missing something?
Every single server has all five of those points
For me, calling someone bad just because it's from somewhere is just an extra blame. Imagine saying that I won't invite West Coast players because they broke my keys and from now on I'll just invite people from the East. People are bad because they play bad. People are toxic because they behave toxic.
In my opinion the only valid point is the language barrier. Even the ping isn't an issue because of the GCD as you can get 95-99 parses with 120-150ms ping. At the end of the day I think the servers with a big population will always have stereotypes because it's prone to evidence more due to the large number of players and it is natural in the majority of games to have more mediocre players than elite ones.
Language barrier is on them not us if the roles were reversed we would 100% be expected to learn how to communicate
Cool. But I can filter out a load of bads by just not inviting ragnaros players
Ragnaros player here,
I think the problem is that our gaming culture is more casual than US/EU and you will find ppl from our servers that are bad at the game. Also the ping is a big problem i play with 300ms sometimes.
Most of the people complaining about ragnaros/azralon probably play low keys, that's where you find bad players from all servers. I had many players from US servers ragequiting the dungeon. There are a lot of US servers and we cannot say "Illidan and Tich are bad players" because theyre a plenty of servers
They are going to be player from these server way better than people on NA server but they have a bad reputation for a reason. I for myself always scared when i take one tbh. Got so many bad exp with them in SL...
Showed this to the big booty latina resto druid in my guild and she left to apply to yours :(
I love what you did here. A couple of thoughts that occurred to me. I think you said the warlock DC'ed for 3-4 minutes. Key left pre-emptively may be a DC and people aren't willing to wait 3-4 minutes for a player to return. In some dungeons that's 10% of the timer. Bad players can be attributed to lag. If I join a key with a player from South America my ms goes from 28 to 200-500 ms. Given some of the short cast times it can be difficult to get out of a bad situation when you are up to half a second behind everyone else. Kicks also become more difficult.
For sure, my ping stays stable with south american servers but if it shoots up to 200+ compared to what you normally play on that's definitely a reason to avoid those servers
at +20 or more keys you already filter a lot of the toxicity from everywhere, you get the most dedicated ones
The stereotype of SA players causing issues with NA players is not really up for debate. This specific topic has been around for quite some time now and affects many different games. Dota 2, Counter Strike, HoTS come to mind. The part that is up for debate is why. That being said people need to stop getting upset.
Heyo! Saw your original video as well and this was very interesting to me as someone relatively new to the community. I did KSH in SL S3 (pushed into the 25 or so range) and had a similar experience when you get to the higher key levels, specifically 20+. That being said, as someone taking this season much more casual (only having pushed 18s so far) it has been drastically different. I unfortunately only play on laptop and don't have recordings of my runs, but I've definitely had my fair share of negative interactions this expac, esp with players from Rag/Az. I do know that more likely than not when someone DC's or RQs after dying on a boss they are from BRZ/LTA, and instant leaves after wipes are likely to happen from those servers.
I would argue that your sample has been skewed drastically towards the higher echelon of players, and doesn't accurately represent the entire community of Rag/Az as well as one ranging from +2s to +20s and beyond. I do agree with your sentiment especially at the higher levels, RIO does a very solid job at filtering applicants. That being said in the mid tiers of gameplay I feel that players from Rag/Az disproportionally have a negative impact on keys, more so than any other server.
Great work, this really was an amazing video. I look forward to your future content :D
Edit: Not to mention in comparison to players from OCE servers (Frostmourne, Barthilas, etc) I have had significantly less issues with in regards to toxicity, skill, and disconnections. As for the later I'm not sure if it's just due to better servers to support OCE as Thierry has claimed LTA has awful servers, but I think it's an interesting point as to why we don't view these players in such a harsh light as we do to LTA players.
For sure, if I do this experiment at 15 keys and under it is a different experience guaranteed. Thanks!
I still think the stereotypes are more accurate at low keys, but the higher you get the less relevant stereotypes are for those servers, but generally I mostly avoid OCE servers just bc of the ping. I absolutely refuse to join or of their groups bc 300+ ping is a kick in the dick. And I usually avoid inviting them bc they get murdered by ping themselves in my. Group
For sure - if I replicated this at lower end keys at 15 or below, I guarantee my results are way different. And yeah OCE keys felt unplayable when I did them in shadowlands, definitely worth arguing the ping diff there
I think thats disingenuous. OCE ping to US to 200ms avg. Like less than half a second delay. It is noticeable when youre used to instant responsiveness, but hardly unplayable. Before OCE servers were a thing, australian players have had to contend and adapt, and have done just fine performing at the hardest content. The fact that some US players refuse to do the same says more about themselves as players.
You might have to be faster to react to disintegration beam in cos, or be ready to anticipate the water ele los in tojs but these are universal practices that make a good player good, instead of hiding behind excuses that 200ms is "unplayable".
@@yungebola5524 Every single time iv gotten into an OCE group, its roughly 300+ ping every time. its extremely noticable when you get hit by a mechanic you moved out of or away from and hits you a second or 2 later. I just prefer not to play around shitting ping, so i dont subject myself too it.
Ya'll are doing 21s but no one has an auto hammer?
finna reroll on rag to get montaged by famous youtuber
The BR players for me are just far more hit or miss on who you get regularless of score. Even if they are not that good it isn't be so bad if you could talk to them but not speaking the same language just makes working together so much harder. Also i don't think I've hardly ever had a BR be toxic and if they were I likely couldn't read the PM lol
Also I don't pug 20+ I generally will only pug 18 and under and save anything higher for guild/friend groups. Haven't done much this season either.
Actually, the fact that people think like this about Azralon/Rag/General servers from south america, makes me think they are the toxic ones.
Stereotypes don't appear out of nowhere they are earned
Imagine thinking people just randomly decided to think this and that it didn't happen.
@@gokublack8342 What about the stereotype that weebs are pedos?
@@Byron804 Sorry I haven't heard of that one
@@gokublack8342 yeah its a very true one, apparently its even more so with Dragon Ball fans
People in comments are complaining about you getting the best players of those servers, but well, let me tell you if you are doing keys from 10-15: everyone that's not playing an alt is going to suck, basically. That has nothing to do with the server, basically keys from 10 to 15 are just a shitshow. So stop your nonsense hate about these guys.
Yes, EU-Kazzak have the most toxic players alive
good on you for trying to make amends with the other servers, i'm sure some people wont listen but hope it causes less keys to self destruct, but also fuck tichondrius.
happy singles day :)
This isn't how you prove or disprove your hypnosis at all.
You are playing with the top % of the servers. Your bias is that 2500 is low io. That is the top 10 to 5% of a server. That is not reflected of the majority of the player base in mythic.
I do agree that io is best indicator of timing keys.
If you want the avg experience you need to do a 0 to KSM only pugs and repeat the experiment.
You need to do it both with the majority of Latin servers and then again without them.
If you wanted to be serious that needs to be repeated a few times as well.
I don't believe anyone is welling to do that to prove they are bad or that is just a stereotype but that is what you would need to do.
Your video only shows that people who time keys well are more likely to not be stereotype so the io system weeds out bad people regardless of the servers. Sample size is low like you said but you don't need a lot of evidence to support the io system because it's proven effective already.
The stereotypes existed at the high end as well, not just for the average player - I completely agree that if I replicated these keys at lower levels of keys, my results are different
@Pumptastic I would like to say I also think the stereotypes are blown out of proportion and was glad someone even attempted to test it. So thank you for that. I just don't think the test was reflecting what you were trying to get across to the general audience.
we would be in agreement that your experience and test is not reflective of the avg player experience. At best it highlights io weeds out problem players. I 100% agree with you.
All the things that were suspect behavior will be magnificent at the avg. Your video makes the impression that stereotype is generally false. It's not clear in the video that this not the experience seen by most of the people who watch or people who commented on your last video.
The experiment should be the variables they deal with. A 'pugging my way' style video would be more effective.
Honestly thank you for responding. Really didn't expect that. I don't experience the general problems of the Latin severs that my friends or other people complain about. I'm actually very curious how much if any difference there is. It's why I clicked your video. I personally don't think there is a statical difference in the number of bad players between the servers. I just don't have time to do a real test. I am from zuljin around 2700 most seasons with a small playgroup.
I will spend one day pugging every few weeks and they generally go great. But when it's awful it's hell.
Thanks again have a good day
LMASOOO
its funny im watching this video and a shadowmoon im in the rag dps priest afks before third boss trash and never comes back. still +2d but couldve been +3
I've run into my share of bad Rag/Az/Drakkari/QT players, but I try to imagine how I'd feel if the majority of servers were almost exclusively Spanish and I had to play at a high level understanding maybe half the shit I read.
You're running with people that have consistently timed +20's. you're running with the best they have to offer.
Your prejudice mind set makes it so mistakes in a hard game are ”oh it’s ok it’s a hard game” to “azirlon/rag players suck”
It’s mostly keys under +20s which is unfortunately the majority of keys being done. If you are inviting someone to a +20 they probably have some experience doing +20s. I know we are trying to be kind with the stereotypes but it’s usually true that they are worse.
I do agree with you though that Raiderio does a good job of giving you all the information you need.
Got nothing to do with lucky you're doing + 20 Keys, now do the same thing with plus 15 keys and get ready to buy a new monitor 🤣
some of the previous comments admitted a minority of the population on rag/az are very good. I"ve played with plenty of them. this video of 21+ keys with 2700+ players doesn't represent the entirety of both servers. Try pugging 10-18s with only rag/az players. I don't mean to stereotype or whatever, but you do start to see a pattern.
I will agree and how some other comment also said, in higher keys people tend to be competent but 10-18s definitely tends to be a pretty violent pattern, lack of English isn't a problem for me as I speak fluent Spanish but even in Spanish I tend to have extreme difficulty with getting any kind of point across
Edit: I also can acknowledge there are some extremely good people from rag. I'm friends with a man that always hovers in the 22-25 range quickly every season but pugs have been another story altogether.
From a QT player I really appreciate your effort to show that SA servers aren't that bad, but I truly hate Rag players too. Quel thalas and ragnaros are quite similar, we're all kinda bad but ragnaros still way more toxic. Anyways we get discriminated a lot for no reason, and some "high skill " servers are extremely toxic. Malganis, Illidan, area52, worst people I've met
I said to my buddy, "fuck it, invite him" -- "4 minutes into the temple run, ragnaros happens" -- Later on, looking for a tank... a third buddy is playing, hes group lead, invites a azralon tank. I said to my buddy, "hey are we about to learn the lesson we just learned when we learned that lesson an hour ago?" -- 2nd boss nokhud 20 --- Azralon rears its head.... I've learned my lesson enough times now, since legion brother. Do other people fuck up? yes. but no one fucks up like az/rag/quelthalas. Obviously this is a mild parody but ,what I typed did literally happen the other day.
Haha, of course experiences are going to vary, especially at lower keys
It doesn't matter how you guys feel about it it is inherently riskier to play with OCE players and for me and other players to be willing to take on that risk you need to set yourself apart in some way...its not "racist" or "xenophobic" or whatever other nonsense OCE players wanna call it. Yes it is stereotyping but in my experience it's accurate to some degree. This is a purely logical risk/reward if you don't set yourself apart from others applying(especially if you're a dps player there's a million of those) what logical benefit is there for me to take on the added risk of an OCE player over a similarly geared and rated NA player?
Run the test on low keys 10-15. The fact that everyone knows never take rag players says a lot. Sure you can take higher io players and do decent, but most are problematic. Thats why they have this reputation
xDDd Come to eu :)
I dare you :)
U gonna get way more toxic keys then there :)
your sample size is obviously not representative. Stereotypes just don't pop up out of nowhere and the one toward Ragnaros and Azralon are well earned. I have limited play time per day and won't take a risk on players from these servers
Here's a hot take: stereotypes are always based in truth
Yup, best example of this is the stereotype that weebs are pedos.
@@Byron804 Don't forget that people with anime profiles are always either tankies or nazis
lol what a hill to die on. even had to adjust takes when they were clearly an issue
What takes were adjusted? Matter of opinion, this was the high end experience and if you aren't pushing end-game content your opinion is going to be completely different, if I did the same thing with 15 keys and under I'm sure I have a different experience
rag players bad
Crazy that you made this whole video just for me to still not invite people from these servers